This was so much more in-depth and experimental than I was expecting. The new Eclipse toggle has given new life to so many frames for me. I hadn't considered it on Caliban, but it's a good fit. Similar to Nidus with his HP regen, DR has a huge impact on Caliban since his lads continuously regenerate shields. And it's a *much* faster regen than most HP ones. I personally use Harrow's ability on Caliban. All he really needs is something to kickstart the regen from his lads.
Caliban need agument mod or skin. For many warframes ability mod was good boost in performance and popularity of a warframe. In some cases this mods are must have on frame. His 4th ability have shit visual effects that have visibility problems, it always was a problem in missions, somehow in simulacrum it works good, they should give his 4th a new proper visible outline.
Sentient wrath as absolutely silly when you combine it with another damage vulnerability source like final verse or mag’s bubble because of multiplicative scaling. My only wish is that the ability would root enemies like harrow’s 1 instead of throwing them into the air.
I played with gamble on a stream 1 day then the next day I did Deep Achimedia hard mode as Caliban ability spam build and got top damage in the group. Having his 2 apply lift status was mandatory to completing this, due to my saxium full set bonus, build. It is the best range scaling subsumable crowd control in the game. 2nd place is Gyre's. My primary was trash my 2ndary was primer not a damage. Melee was jat kitag with augment and Saxium impact damage. Not slash because I'm not a noob. Gamble is not wrong about his opinion on this frame. This game is just so well polished and balanced the bottom of the tier list starts at A. Every warframe is viable in the right hands. Wukong dose have crowd control, his cloud staggers and his augment for 1 is rhino's ult. I don't think he needs a total rework, I think all exalted weapons need a tenoki+arcane style buff to their stance mods. That do exclusive things for just them, (in a busted way) based on the players combo inputs. Including combo stances for non-melee exalteds that do not currently have stances. Such as Hildren's exalted.
I wouldn't necessarily say A is the bottom of a tier list, but you're certainly right about every frame being viable. Even the worst frames have use and can be taken to the hardest content in the game and be just fine. People want every frame in the game to be an insane ability nuke spammer that never dies, but that just isn't going to happen. I hate when people say to change Loki to have a nuke, that's literally the opposite of what he's supposed to be. There are 57 frames in the game, they don't have to and shouldn't be all the same. The biggest problem with any frame is something that isn't their fault, and that's the player base. Unfortunately a large portion of plays are either meta spamming uggos that only use Revenant or Saryn, and then the others are braindead noobs that just blindly listen to whatever a popular CZcamsr tells them. The fact that there are that many frames and they almost all have completely unique themes and abilities is incredible, and DE deserves more credit than they get. I do think there's a lot of stuff they could do better, but they've done pretty damn good so far.
Caliban sexo Caliban sexo We did it fellas,we got the caliban video,videogame won even,now they'll finally be atleast 6 caliban mains (and not counting my alt accounts for once) Really hoping pablo doesnt obliterate caliban's identity if it gets a rework,granted i still think a 1 replacement and buff to his 2 n 3 numbers is perfect,maybe also buff his adaptation passive for self? Like its not horrid,but c mon....
As a chronic caliban spammer I appreciate you talking about him lile this. Nourish is absolutely the best pick for a general caliban setup, since it also gives the nourish buff to your summons, which actually makes him one of the best viral primers I regularly use. (I basically always see enemies with several to max stacks of viral.) Also another quick note is that his passive does apply to companions I believe so that gives it additional value for me.
I'm really glad Caliban is getting a rework, and a Deluxe skin to boot. what's surprising is the fact that they're gonna give Caliban for free when you login to a specific time as well. I was considering grinding for him when they announced that they're gonna give Caliban for free. which is amazing.
I remember trying out Caliban for the first time, set the max rank on the simulacrum and tried out the 4th ability and saw the armor just disappear. Then explored more of his kit and all of a sudden I fell in love with this frame. Now I main him the most after my Vauban phase, because he is just fun to use. May not be the best at endgame, but with the right kit, it's definitely better than Wukong hehe.
Caliban has been on my radar for a while - namely for his design and the fact that people kept calling him the worst frame while I'm thinking "he can't be that bad". The customization Warframes have is vast enough that I think calling one bad requires the frame to really be that lacking in options (i.e. Old Inaros). I do want to try him out, except his farm is... long. I figure it's going to take me a while to get everything needed to build him, so I'm just saving this and other people's guides for now, lol. Good video overall!
@@neovenus8320 How I got him was I just sold stuff for plat and waited until I got a coupon, then I bought him from the market. Honestly it's faster to farm stuff to sell and do that than it is to farm his parts.
I love Caliban, I used him alot but he is very weapon dependant if DE decides to change him a bit maybe change/improve his 1st ability and make his 2nd still float but like float on stasis or just stop in the air entire duration....Also give me some Caliban Skins DE its been years now XD
I think strength in warframes can be defined in different ways I guess u mean strength in clearing content and stuff but most players arent doing high level/ enemy capped content which is probably why caliban is rated low in many teir list because in most instances..what he excels at isnt needed/ can be done by ither warframes that feel less clunky without cast speed The 5 pillars u showed are gr8 though but i do think the wukong slander is insane Wukong while not having much damage or armor strip for me is an invaluable frame because of his insane mobility which i use to clear the void capture mission in under 1 min and farm void relics really fast I am in no way a wukong meat riders btw...my most used frame is nezha but now im bored of him so im using (quadratic scaling oberon...yes its a thing xD) I just use wukong for farming relics which imo is a good thing for him to do I havent used wukong much dmg wise but i have seen some amazing stuff with him ...something tells me u hate wukong xD I am gonna try and get caliban and subsume him for his two for oberon ..i am also gona put it on banshe just because i want to replace her 4 with it and run precision intensify and armor strip to see if i can do a dollar store thermal sunder type nuke
I keep forgetting that context is extremely important when explaining a frame's viability. I do think on the low end Wukong is actually a really good frame, I definitely should've specified for endgame/endurance stuff specifically. I always forget the importance of specifying that, and then when I watch it back after posting it I seem like a meta simp cuck boy, but I swear I'm not. Hopefully I get better at explaining stuff as time goes on. I appreciate the feedback a lot. Also, I don't hate wukong, I actually used to main him back before his rework. Ah, how time flies.
@Einzweig ah ok I see..and dw I didn't think u were a meta simp cuck boy lol I myself like to use off meta strategies so I always appreciate seeing other using things many people say is "bad"..meta just means Most efficient tatic possible..it doesn't mean the only thing...and that's the problem with many gamers now ah days They always want meta instead of fun
Couldnt agree with you more, go on over to mougs latest video on how great synapse is with innate corrosive, top comment guy saying torid blah blah, im sick of people thinking all we should be using is the top stuff in trade chat. when i started warframe all i wanted was the top 5 stuff, got caliban and was shocked how anyone can say hes bad, great shield regen, armour strip and damage boost. Stahlta to me is the gun you get at mr10 and will carry you to 9999, if your new dont listen to 99 percent of people when they tell you a frame is bad or a gun, caliban is edcellent modt frames have a useless ability so why does he get so much death?
It really is depressing to see so many people only care about using whatever the most broken thing is. There are 57 frames and more weapons than I can keep track of, so why just use one? People also make it out like anything other than the most broken weapons or frames are unusable, when they're more than fine.
Honestly caliban just needs it scentient casting hability to have reduced cost on continuous castings like atlas punches, is ridiculous how the you have to tap the hability 3 times on full cost to get the full benefit of it. And his first hability to make adaptive damage or give invulnerability to have a chance to heal, otherwise, revenants hability is so much better to put on him
One warframe I really think needs a rework more thatn caliban is Equinox, it's habilitys are pretty outdated and many of them don't have a reason to wotk like they do nowdays. The damage reduction cost so much energy and the damage vulnerability is pretty tedious to use, the buff he gains when changing form there is no reason for those to be permanent But those arguments against wukong to make Caliban look better made me laugh, wukong has different approaches although they are very individualistic, and at least I like survival better with life armor and health regen, so it's not that bad even on the path of steel If you have what it takes to equip it (like other warframes that use the same life and armor mechanics) And no, ironically I dont usually play wukong xd I tend to use more atlas, oberon, nezha and qorvex
It's an ok CC tool. It unfortunately has a long cast time and is done on the clones location, which can be a problem when it runs away. Still not useless though, just not as consistent as I would like.
Not an insult *at all*: are you color blind? I noticed you said your frame and the EVAs are purple and blue, but they are actually purple and bright emerald green
If there is one thing that doesn't belong into the game, then it's nourish as a helminth ability. Especially for higher level content, it's by far the most braindead pick that always works and most of the time single-handedly solves energy economy for a plethora of builds, and that's even post nerf. Roar would most likely take its place in regards to usefulness if it wasn't an option but that's still something to consider as it costs a truckload of energy and having no energy in high levels is equal to imminent death. Small edit: people seem to forget how many builds become possible only due to nourish. And i'm gonna bet my a** there is not a single ability in existence that enables that many builds or is in any way comparable to nourish.
I'm not going to even try to argue for Nourish, since you're right. But while there are other good energy helminths (Protea, Citrine, Gara, Voruna, Vauban) there are *no* alternatives to Roar. Roar is the *only* Helminth ability that increases ability damage. The sole. Single. One. You talk about "enabling builds", my dude, Roar is unmatched there. Other frames *have* a universal faction damage effect, like Vauban's Overdriver, but only Roar can be shared.
@@Glamador the simple alternative to roar are faction damage mods, of course they don't apply to all enemies and they don't apply to abilities. But a base 30% roar rather complements builds other than making them possible in the first place. Also, since viral from nourish applies to most damaging abilities, it might as well add more overall damage than roar if the ability doesn't inflict any dots. Thus, often times roar might even be inferior damage wise which is the only thing it is supposed to bring to the table. And no, vauban's helminth is NOT good for energy even though it works with archon stretch (which should better fit the build), it's quite consistent income but weak compared to other options.
@@NiceGameInc I strongly disagree. Viral is common and easy to apply with any number of weapons or companions. And Roar is *multiplicative* with viral. If you want to scale ability damage there is simply no option other than Roar. You want to one-shot with Reave? Roar. You want to scale ability DoTs like Aqua Blades, Blaze Artillery, Inferno, Dark Verse, or Elemental Sandstorm? Roar. The difference between Roar and no Roar on a slash Elemental Sandstorm build is like 50-80 KPS. It takes it from inviable to viable. Same with Reave. But it isn't so much "enabling" those builds insomuch as there are simply no better, or even preferential, options. *Nothing* else scales those abilities' damage. I'll entertain that armor strip may be more impactful on Protea, but Ember already strips and slash damage ignores armor. You can use Heat Inherit to apply faction mods to heat DoTs but, again, no other helminths affect those *at all* so if you want a helminth, the "choice" is still just Roar.
@@Glamador Fair enough. Dispensary with equilibrium is probably the next best thing for energy and in the high levels, given one runs equilibrium and synth deconstruct, any compagnion that can't be kept alive with pack leader (forcing one to run a melee build) will be dead 95% of the time further narrowing down options. Concerning roar: if you can maintain it in endurance (probably anything but void cascade) it's definitely a great option. But my point about nourish isn't that it can enable abilities to apply viral but instead get a huge damage boost in the form of viral damage which in the far majority of cases is the best damage type when enemies are stripped off their defenses. So the thing about nourish is much less about inflicting viral but about the actual damage buff it offers. And with some power strength, the buff makes abilities hit way harder than with any roar build I know of. Take vauban for example just cause: nourish applies to his flechette orbs, they can now proc viral AND receive the extra viral damage which in the case of abilities can be considered a separate multiplier. Given that enemies are armor stripped, they will take way more damage from a nourish build than from any kind of roar build. And that's without including vauban's overdriver into the equation. So any ability that can profit from nourish that doesn't apply dots (or where proc weighting isn't influenced by nourish which is the case with forced procs), will be by far superior to any kind of roar build.
@@NiceGameInc The thing about "ability" damage from things like Final Stand, Flechette Orb, Regulators, and several others is that it isn't actually "ability damage". It's weapon damage that counts doubly as an ability. For those, Nourish is the uncontested king BUT that's for the exact same reason that Roar is for all of the *other* "pure" abilities. Vigorous Swap, Arcane Arachne, and Holster Amp also affect these weapon+ability damage sources, in case you didn't know. Warframe is made of spaghetti, I swear.
If the farm wasn't so annoying, more people would at least try Caliban. Is Quick Thinking (energy tanking) worth it on him? On paper it should work really well with his passive, basically 360% efficiency. After i finish farming him I'd like to try a build with Chroma's elemental ward, mostly because it fits so well with Caliban's adaptation theme!
I suppose you could try quick thinking, though I'm not sure it's worth the mod slot. Yes you become tankier, but on the low end he usually doesn't need the extra help from something like that, and on the high end quick thinking is worthless. I'd suggest just trying it out to see if you feel like it helps or not.
The downside of Caliban is that NOW he can be good, but TTK is still much higher than other warframes even though his kit is "usable." Usable isn't good enough when out the gates so many other warframes just feel better without needing the deep dive. I hope he gets buffed and reworked.
I love him but he needs a rework his 3rd ability has potential but is horrible because the sentients don't even adapt like the real ones from the story then his first needs to be completely stripped away inaros had it first lol his two is ok but not great or appropriate his forth is garbage as well he needs a complete rework I do hope his 3rd is fixed thank u kindly
This is cool, I saw somebody popping off with caliban before in duviri and I thought, man I gotta find out what he's doing. Will I play him after watchiing this video... no. And really the reason I wont is simply because he doesn't have a prime. I've got a lot of other frames and weapons begging for forma, and unless I'm 100% sure I'm going to stick with it, it'll sit at the bottom of the list, I don't want to refarm him for helminth just to refarm him again when he gets a prime you know... I know there is still a bunch of wukong mains out there who would get offended by this video. I'd say I'd agree with you, but tbf, I also reckon he is still meta. And that's because he is the best frame for speed running spy missions. Even though it's just 1 mission type, with the variety of frames out there, that's enough for me to call him good. The worst frame for me at the moment has got to be nyx, and that's not even close.
Its not even fair to caliban to completely shit on his 1 since its at least a fun movement tool and a heal. Shitting on wukong is also not fair, even if you hate his clone he does have cc. 2 second stun on cloud and a ragdoll on defy.
The blind is there which I should've mentioned, but it isn't enough to make a difference. The short blind is made worthless by the fact that you just float away while having invulnerability, so it ends up doing nothing for you. The ragdoll on defy isn't worth mentioning though, as the long cast time of defy and animations make it a horrible CC to cast in the heat of things. I was actually working on a Wukong video, but I literally couldn't find anything interesting to do with him, and he is just a raging meh. That being said, if someone enjoys Wukong, more power to them. People should play who they like, regardless of whether or not they're great.
What blind? If you are talking about clouds stun the only real purpose it serves is access to finishers for crescendo imho but it still exists. Defy cc is at least as good as the knockdown off caliban 4 so maybe give it that same gloom consideration. Defy as a damage ability might be useful if we move a armor strip on instead and that obviously fixes clone problems. He is at least a kind of fun meat frame but i'd agree he doesn't belong above C+ unless afk is a consideration these days. @@Einzweig
@@hothstorm Ah yeah idk why the hell I typed blind, I meant stun, it was a schizo moment. The stun it offers has its uses, and I suppose it could be used in tandem with gloom, but there are many other helminths that could be of much more use to Wukong. I went a little too hard on him, but I still don't think he's as good as he should be.
This major cope, his 1 we don't even talk about his 2 has enemy cap and the cc stops when anything touches them while its capped his 3 is junky, clunky, slow, costs a lot of energy and time for trash shield regen and mediocre cc you can achieve by having a sentinal with a clone mod,not to mention you need to cast it 3 times. his 4 costs a lot of base energy, is the slowest armor strip in game too, and his passive is just trash. He requires lots of investments for his energy economy and shards because of his SLOW casting. He is just dependent of the weapon you bring. he is junky and requires a lot of micro management He is just a worst version of weapon platformers we have currently. He isn't unusable and works for most content but that is like every warframe. I just cant think of a frame worse than caliban Also wukong is far from the worst warframe, he is the best spy warframe and comfortable spee run warframe next to titania. He also has a lot of s so its impossible for him to die. saying caliban is better than wukong is coping PS: The overshield sometimes stops working.\
The enemy cap on his 2 is high enough that it will almost never actually be reached, and if you do reach it, you're playing him wrong. The aggro from his 3 is higher than sentinel clone mods, and by a substantial amount, making it much better than that. The shield regen isn't "trash", it is an incredible tool for survival. The energy cost is irrelevant when that is fixed so easily. The main issue is just that you have to cast it three times, but thanks to the shield regen and literally any augur mod/brief respite, you're pretty much invincible while casting it. His 4 really doesn't take that long to cast, and it is an extremely nice armor strip. It has an easy strength breakpoint to reach, a decently sized radius, and a persistent zone of armor strip. It also completely strips shields, and has no cap on how many can be out. Yet again with energy, that is a very easy thing to fix. I've used all the armor strips in the game extensively, and Caliban's 4 is what I find to be the 2nd most comfortable and convenient one to use, beaten only by pillage, though that requires significantly higher breakpoints. His passive isn't trash either, it's literally just free DR. 99% of the player base has never and will never do level cap, which means the DR is actually of value. Not to mention it also applies to teammates, and you never have to think about it, it's just always passively there. I don't think Caliban is in a perfect position, and he definitely could use some tweaks, but he isn't nearly as bad as you say. Yes he has downsides, but he also has a lot of upsides too, and that can be said about most frames in the game. Finally is Wukong, I will admit that for speed running and general use outside of endurance he does have value, but in the context of level cap I still don't think he's good. His 4 is worthless, his 1 has some of the worst AI I've ever experienced, and both his 2 and 3 don't allow you to do anything while active except run away. Not taking damage is nice, but it can be a waste of time when you're unable to fight back. At the end of the day that's personal preference I suppose, so to each their own.
The thing I immediatly mentioned is even though you try to make him appealing you are immediatly trashing each and every single one of his abilities and that is the very reason we all consider him to be bad: If you can play a different Warframe that does the same thing like Caliban but BETTER and WITHOUT DRAWBACKS then why the fuck would you play Caliban? His 1 disables him. His 2 applies the lift status which makes hitting things more difficult while a good CC ability should make it more easy to aim at targets cause they stop moving. His 3 does NOT regenerate the resource they are supposed to regenerate the very moment you need it MOST (when they are at 0). His 4 is limited by his line of sight and trajectory. Rhino does basically the same shit as Caliban but better: Charge is better than Caliban's 1, Ironskin is better than Caliban's 3, Stomp is better than Caliban's 2 and Roar is better than the damage vuln. Why the fuck would I play Caliban? And considering everything here NOW when we KNOW he is due for a rework is just a waste of time.
I didn't trash anything other than his 1 my guy, and that's because it is very much doo doo water, though that just makes it the helminth slot. He also does very different stuff than Rhino. Rhino's 1 is also practically worthless, his 2 works very differently than shield regen, his damage buff is nice but worse than having armor strip in most situations, and his stomp doesn't apply a vulnerability to enemies. Comparing the two makes no sense. I do think that it's probably better to just wait for the rework, but I still enjoy him a lot right now. Also, what do you mean his 4 having a problem with LoS and trajectory? From what I can tell the zone it makes is unaffected by objects, and I literally have no clue what the trajectory is supposed to mean. It shoots a beam forward and makes a very large shield/armor strip zone, I'd say that's quite nice.
@@Einzweig OK I might need to elaborate on this comparison. Of course the abilities are different but they serve certain purposes: Rhino's 1 moves him, as does Caliban's 1. Rhino's 2 protects him (with overguard, imho a better defense than shields due to the included status immunity) on demand, which is the same "task" as the shield regen of your minions. Rhino's 3 gives a damage buff, similar to a damage vulnerability or an armor strip. Yes of course armor strip is way more potent and the damage increase from Roar and a damage vulnerability stack with each other in the end but the "task" of that ability is "boost damageouput" - and sadly it does that better than a vuln due to the double dipping on status effects. Rhino's 4 applies a radial, unconditional CC. Caliban only aims the ultimate in front of him. Caliban's 2 CCs the enemies by lifting them, a status effect that is detrimental at best to your ability to kill an enemy. Rhino's stomp also lifts the enemies but does not drop them when hit. The best kind of CC comes from Harrow because enemies hit by Condemn are actively presenting their head to you so you can headshot them (which is why the Knell has the Headshot mechanics). Lift is just ... urgh compared to all the other CC out there. The one thing that makes things in Warframe jump up a tier in viability has always been the fact "you do not need to aim with it". I personally really felt it back in the Catchmoon meta, but we got repeated applications of this fact in the Bramma AoE Meta, the Nukor Chaining Meta and most current Incarnons that do not truly need to be aimed. Not having to look at something to affect it is paramount. The fact that Caliban's ultimate ability only affects enemies in front of him compared to all the abilities out there that do not need to even be in the same reality as the guy whose day you are ruining is just hillarious to me. Also yes, you are trashing all of his abilites. All of them are introduced with "This ability is extremely awkward, has some issues, or looks stupid at first look, which they are, but they do have good things." - If you could remove the first part of these introductions to the abilities we could agree on Caliban having value. But if even the non "doodoo poop" abilities have caveats ... I'm sorry what? The funniest part of Caliban is that we were in the middle of a metagame where all the things Caliban was able to do were already considered "not good enough" and was never looked at again to move him to where he would have had to have been back when he released.
@@Salbeira The survivability from overguard compared to shields + aggro are fundamentally different and both have ups and downs, I don't think a direct comparison is worth making, though even then I personally would prefer Caliban, but that's just for the content I play. Having to ask your 4 on Caliban is of little consequence when you can aim it at the ground if you want it on your position, so being able to aim it to be anywhere is a massive upside I'd say. The CC from Rhino is obviously much better than what you get with Caliban's 2, but that will hopefully change in the future. For now, the damage vulnerability is still extremely nice to have. Comparing roar and Caliban's 4 simply because they are both aimed at increasing one's damage output sounds logical in theory, but it doesn't really work out like that. In low end content roar is better, in high end content armor strip is better. If I'm doing anything past level 1,000, armor strip is literally required to kill anything, and once stripped enemies die quite fast anyways so I don't need another source of damage increase tbh. I also disagree about me "trashing" all of his abilities. I've watched it back more than once, and it doesn't give me that impression at all. I'm honest and upfront about the downsides, I then proceed to explain all the good things about the abilities. If you took it as me trashing them, then I've no clue what to do about that, as that was neither the intention nor what it ended up sounding like to me. If I'm doing under level 1k and I just want to turn my brain off then Rhino is without a doubt the better option. But if I'm doing long disruptions or void cascade missions, which are also some of the most rewarding activities in the game, I'd much rather be Caliban. At the end of the day their kits are just aimed at different content. If you disagree, then that's your prerogative, and there's nothing else I could say to change that.
isn't it the other way around. Caliban does everything rhino does but better? Having damage vulnerability, CC and armor strip in one package plus practical invulnerability with a hybrid shield tank shield gate build makes caliban more versatile than rhino and better suited for level cap content. Plus if you really need more damage you can just subsume roar on caliban to multiply the multiplicative damage.
Firstly, it's reh-spy-eyeht.. not reh-sphit-... Brief Respite there's a fucking "e" right there... You've listed plenty of reasons why Caliban is bad and outright passed over them like they weren't any part of any reason why us intelligent people understand why he's bad. If you HAVE to replace an ability on a Warframe in order for a Warframe to have better synergy with their own kit; that Warframe by default is bad. Subsuming is supposed to add to a frames already viable kit; not fix them... Doing DE's job without getting paid for it... Imagine that. I immediately disregard any loser who tries to explain away problems that are problems especially when your follow up and reasoning is just that- "Well, I don't think they're bad because I'll ignore all the bad parts about them and exaggerate how good I think they are because I don't know how to reason or make decisions, or compare and contrast or logically and rationally think, I just justify things without any tangible reasoning..." I could quite literally go back through this video and completely debunk everything you just stated verbatim. Caliban needs more than a buff; he needs a complete rework. Just like I stated for Sevagoth... Caliban does not behave like Sentient nor does he perform like one. Battlyst, Catalyst, etc-An actually idea is to literally allow him to be a FULL summoner frame who just summons different Sentients that do different things. Sevagoth is the same, he does not seem like a Pirate, a Ghost, a Phantom, or a Reaper... He behaves more like a damn Pokemon. And you people keep trying to defend these ass frames.
I think you need to calm your tits my guy, you're over here seething because a random guy on the internet thinks something in a game is good, you may need to reevaluate your life if you've got this many f*cks to give. The vast majority of frames in the game have at least one borderline worthless ability, which is always easily replaced by a helminth. I don't think that should be the case, but it just is. The unfortunate truth is that it will likely never change, so you've gotta make do with what you have. And I really don't think it's the end of the world. While I do think Caliban is much better than people give him credit for, that doesn't mean I think he's perfect. If DE were to make positive changes to his kit, I would be more than happy to accept that. Even if that's the case though, I don't think he's immediately bad because he could use some buffs, that would rule out most frames as worthless. If every frame had literally no downsides and were just insanely busted, then the game would be unbelievably boring. A frame with flaws that are fair and can be worked around is much more interesting to me than a braindead frame like Saryn. Half of your comment is you just throwing words around while providing absolutely nothing of value, and the other half is you throwing a temper tantrum like a toddler and insulting people who like Caliban. If anyone's opinion is going to be disregarded, it's yours. You clearly aren't capable of being a civilized human being, so I suggest you go back to the kid's table. I've played most of the frames in the game, and I've taken many of them to level cap, and I can safely say that Caliban is one of the easiest to do it with. He has incredible survivability, a large AoE armor strip that persists, and some level of crowd control. He also does all of that while being fun to play. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean everyone else hates him too. There are 57 frames in the game now, so quit whining and go play one of the other ones. And just to end things off, you're wrong, I did pronounce respite correctly. Have you ever looked up the pronunciation? Try reading a dictionary, going to school, or using Google, you could really use the help they can provide. Have fun being a clown. 🤡
@@Einzweig First video czcams.com/video/2DfmMCM9LcY/video.htmlsi=8PZpiXacNLZCHTRU Second video czcams.com/video/eWmgcOUXHz8/video.htmlsi=lRNkSIxVwIHhU3Rv The reason we now this is correct is due to combining the prefix and suffix-this is exactly why I'm calling you stupid, because you are. Re-is pronounced as REE, not Reh... the literal word is pronounced as Spyht, because of the "E" ding a ling... Spite; even in English "spit" is the word your are pronouncing you silly bafoon. I'm not even British I'm American and I know this. Putting the two parts together with common sense and the exact explanation I just gave does not eliminate the pronunciation of the "E" IT IS NOT SILENT and "Re" is not abbreviated. I hurl insults because I am infinitely tired of idiots like you would argue the shape of water or is water wet... Ignore the insults. If every frame was busted in the game the game would NOT be boring. Your ADHD misinterpreted all the time it seems... The actually fun comes from the identity of the frame, who and what they are and how do they do, what they are capable of in creative ways. You cannot argue why frames lack viability then pretend it's a good thing when Caliban, Qorvex and Sevagoth are not played, go ahead and argue frames not being played as often as the rest of the cast being a good thing and-due to them having to be baby-sat because they have nothing to do with their kits or they require ridiculous investments to make them work even partially after that they are carried by their weapons and their abilities are relatively ignored. Caliban the same for Sevagoth's theme is out of whack. For all the things Sentients do, and their different types, Battalyst, Conculyst, Mimics, Teralyst-etc. Caliban is weaker than all of them. It should be unerringly underwhelming and disappointing. *_Razor Gyre_* You admitting to this ability being bad and just ignored it... In my opinion it's copying from other Warframe's the same as all of Caliban's other abilities, just worse than the copies... Razor Gyre's properties lose there value due to the way those things work together, as in the properties. ((Sarcasm)A spinning damage ability that siphons health, which Sentient does that Battalyst?(Sarcasm))-Razor Gyre has Revenant's Danse Macabre (Revenant's 4) functionality, and apparently an added tap functionality that causes Caliban to bounce very haphazardly and ridiculously to deal literally no meaningful damage or health siphon or team buffs and can synergize with Sentient Wraith, that's the added buff to this ability... The drain on this ability is maddening based upon all of these facts; you must compare this to the copied from abilities when they are this similar even if they are used for different purposes, one is an AOE laser beam that adds damage and scales and kills (Danse Macabre), the other is CC ragdoll that displaces and or disables enemies (Sandstorm), then it's Caliban's that doesn't even compare now... Apply this logic to all of Caliban. *_Sentient Wraith_* A literal generic boring stomp wave that is just lazy, it causes damage reduction which is okay but the problem here is that this move isn't an impressive thing based upon what the other Sentients do. The animation, the effects, the properties are all just unimaginably boring; Inaros is sand based, he has sand properties... it works with his theme and as sandstorms are a thing and it looks and feels like something; it works and isn't underwhelming. Caliban's stomp randomly has a worse Vauban 2's function as you can sometimes barely see lifted enemies, and to buff this they allowed it to have damage reduction properties... again... What Sentient has this... *_Lethal Progeny_* This ability is just... It literally says to call upon Caliban's sentient aspect... This quite literally means to call upon Caliban's imagination of itself... Apparently there's 3 of him. This ability we know could have been much better for how every other A.I. in the game functions if DE allows these things to do "stuff" such as fighting... Giving Caliban shields seems to be the priority but is placed as a secondary function in the text as it is written. This means they are supposed to fight first. Giving Caliban shields is not their primary purpose. This could be why they were designed to only give shields while he has them, they are not supposed to outright protect Caliban. I love this ability's idea. Which is how Caliban can be fixed I'll explain later... *_Fusion Strike_* DE has a beam fetish... The power of 3, real troglodyte energy... I understand why he has 3 beams for the 3 Sentients he's supposed to embody... Beams and AOE explosions are unapologetically overused in Warframe as it's a consequence to the nature of the game. Again, lazy and loses relevancy when AOEs are just better than killing enemies in a game of hordes. They took it a step further by allowing it to be a beam to start out as three beams then come together as one to simulate an AOE... But wait, there's more... Even the damn name is just bad. His 3rd ability is "Lethal Progeny" and 4rth "Sentient Wrath", then "Fusion-Strike" striking is something you do with your body as a physical thing. A beam is not a strike; they could have literally called it a Fusion Beam, it still would have been ass but holy shit; what are words... The only reason anyone would argue for this ability is because it has a debuff, this by default is supposed to make it good... To ignore the application of the function of the thing-the same argument against Sevagoth's dumbfounded kit-giving these abilities passes because they apply a property you like or favor regardless of how... This ignorance is inherently dishonest and disregards the frame and then, they become underwhelming compared to other frames or even by themselves in what they do, this with all of these factors makes a frames ass by being devalued objectively...
*_Solution_* To fix Caliban as I stated in the comment above reimagine him. What does it actually mean to be a "Twisted hybrid of Warframe and Sentient." What does it mean to be a Warframe... What does it mean to be a Sentient. Revenant is a Ediolon Sentient Warframe... Literally if an Eidolon was compacted into a Warframe so to speak... Caliban is a hybrid of what... Battlyst? Oculyst? Conculyst? Mimic? Teralyst etc... All of them? Then made into a Warframe... He should be unimaginably stronger than Revenant. An idea is that he could be a frame that embodies just one of them and they could make a series of Warframe's that are Warframe versions of different types of Sentients... Caliban seems to be only a Battlyst... This would potentially makes him weaker than Revenant.
@@parabellum4622 See, being civilized ain't so difficult. I do think it would be cool to lean harder into the sentient theme, though I think he fits it decently well already. In the lore the sentients aren't particularly special at first, what makes them so good is the ability to adapt. Not so much made for being great at one thing, but rather good at multiple things, a jack of all trades if you will. I'm not the best person to describe why he at least somewhat fits the theme already, but there's a video on Caliban done by Prof Dysto where he explains it much better. While it would be cool to have multiple different sentient themed frames, I know that DE isn't going to commit that much time into new frames centered around a theme that they've mostly moved on from. Making Caliban a summoner frame could work, but then he'd be creeping into the territory of Nekros, and I think that would just make Nekros even more pointless than he already is. Instead, I think it would be cool to make him capable of changing forms into the different sentient types. Give him an ability that cycles through different options, like Vauban's 2, and have it be the different forms. It could change the effects of his other three abilities based on what form he's in. Each one could have its own combat theme, making it all about adapting to what's needed. One for CC, one for damage, one for survivability, and one for debuffing. Again, I don't think Caliban is perfect by any means, and changes to him would be very nice, I just don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be. I personally enjoy him more than most other frames, he's a lot of fun and has all the tools I typically find myself needing. Regardless of anyone's opinions though, he will be getting reworked, as DE has already stated that he's the next on the chopping block after Inaros. I'm interested to see what they do with him, while also a little scared that he won't be as much fun for me as he is now. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
Caliban has de-aggro, cc, survivability, damage increase and armorstrip in his base kit.
He cant be the worst Warframe.
Exactly. He has it all, with the one downside of clunkiness, which is easily fixed via natural talent or archon shards.
This was so much more in-depth and experimental than I was expecting.
The new Eclipse toggle has given new life to so many frames for me. I hadn't considered it on Caliban, but it's a good fit. Similar to Nidus with his HP regen, DR has a huge impact on Caliban since his lads continuously regenerate shields. And it's a *much* faster regen than most HP ones.
I personally use Harrow's ability on Caliban. All he really needs is something to kickstart the regen from his lads.
None of the caliban guides I saw unveiled this much of his kit mind blown 🤯
Caliban need agument mod or skin. For many warframes ability mod was good boost in performance and popularity of a warframe. In some cases this mods are must have on frame.
His 4th ability have shit visual effects that have visibility problems, it always was a problem in missions, somehow in simulacrum it works good, they should give his 4th a new proper visible outline.
Great insight, I didn't expect you to convince me that caliban isn't shit. Keep it up !
Sentient wrath as absolutely silly when you combine it with another damage vulnerability source like final verse or mag’s bubble because of multiplicative scaling.
My only wish is that the ability would root enemies like harrow’s 1 instead of throwing them into the air.
Some timestamps would help just because I have a low attention span and I love [Caliban], it’s really interesting though.
I played with gamble on a stream 1 day then the next day I did Deep Achimedia hard mode as Caliban ability spam build and got top damage in the group. Having his 2 apply lift status was mandatory to completing this, due to my saxium full set bonus, build. It is the best range scaling subsumable crowd control in the game. 2nd place is Gyre's. My primary was trash my 2ndary was primer not a damage. Melee was jat kitag with augment and Saxium impact damage. Not slash because I'm not a noob.
Gamble is not wrong about his opinion on this frame. This game is just so well polished and balanced the bottom of the tier list starts at A. Every warframe is viable in the right hands. Wukong dose have crowd control, his cloud staggers and his augment for 1 is rhino's ult. I don't think he needs a total rework, I think all exalted weapons need a tenoki+arcane style buff to their stance mods. That do exclusive things for just them, (in a busted way) based on the players combo inputs. Including combo stances for non-melee exalteds that do not currently have stances. Such as Hildren's exalted.
I wouldn't necessarily say A is the bottom of a tier list, but you're certainly right about every frame being viable. Even the worst frames have use and can be taken to the hardest content in the game and be just fine. People want every frame in the game to be an insane ability nuke spammer that never dies, but that just isn't going to happen. I hate when people say to change Loki to have a nuke, that's literally the opposite of what he's supposed to be. There are 57 frames in the game, they don't have to and shouldn't be all the same.
The biggest problem with any frame is something that isn't their fault, and that's the player base. Unfortunately a large portion of plays are either meta spamming uggos that only use Revenant or Saryn, and then the others are braindead noobs that just blindly listen to whatever a popular CZcamsr tells them.
The fact that there are that many frames and they almost all have completely unique themes and abilities is incredible, and DE deserves more credit than they get. I do think there's a lot of stuff they could do better, but they've done pretty damn good so far.
Caliban sexo Caliban sexo
We did it fellas,we got the caliban video,videogame won even,now they'll finally be atleast 6 caliban mains (and not counting my alt accounts for once)
Really hoping pablo doesnt obliterate caliban's identity if it gets a rework,granted i still think a 1 replacement and buff to his 2 n 3 numbers is perfect,maybe also buff his adaptation passive for self? Like its not horrid,but c mon....
As a chronic caliban spammer I appreciate you talking about him lile this.
Nourish is absolutely the best pick for a general caliban setup, since it also gives the nourish buff to your summons, which actually makes him one of the best viral primers I regularly use. (I basically always see enemies with several to max stacks of viral.)
Also another quick note is that his passive does apply to companions I believe so that gives it additional value for me.
I'm really glad Caliban is getting a rework, and a Deluxe skin to boot. what's surprising is the fact that they're gonna give Caliban for free when you login to a specific time as well. I was considering grinding for him when they announced that they're gonna give Caliban for free. which is amazing.
I remember trying out Caliban for the first time, set the max rank on the simulacrum and tried out the 4th ability and saw the armor just disappear. Then explored more of his kit and all of a sudden I fell in love with this frame. Now I main him the most after my Vauban phase, because he is just fun to use.
May not be the best at endgame, but with the right kit, it's definitely better than Wukong hehe.
Caliban has been on my radar for a while - namely for his design and the fact that people kept calling him the worst frame while I'm thinking "he can't be that bad". The customization Warframes have is vast enough that I think calling one bad requires the frame to really be that lacking in options (i.e. Old Inaros).
I do want to try him out, except his farm is... long. I figure it's going to take me a while to get everything needed to build him, so I'm just saving this and other people's guides for now, lol. Good video overall!
@@neovenus8320 How I got him was I just sold stuff for plat and waited until I got a coupon, then I bought him from the market. Honestly it's faster to farm stuff to sell and do that than it is to farm his parts.
I love it when ppl take “bad” warframes and make them either fun, viable, or both! I am a chroma main and I love face tanking
Randomly came across this video and we have damn near the same fashion for Caliban lol❤️🔥 he's a cool frame, just got him
As a Wukong 'main', I'd say, fuck the tier list.
Nourish is a classic to put on caliban...grouping abilities work great on him too
I love Caliban, I used him alot but he is very weapon dependant if DE decides to change him a bit maybe change/improve his 1st ability and make his 2nd still float but like float on stasis or just stop in the air entire duration....Also give me some Caliban Skins DE its been years now XD
My Caliban my only maxed out frame with endgame modes n weapons to complement him
I think strength in warframes can be defined in different ways
I guess u mean strength in clearing content and stuff but most players arent doing high level/ enemy capped content which is probably why caliban is rated low in many teir list because in most instances..what he excels at isnt needed/ can be done by ither warframes that feel less clunky without cast speed
The 5 pillars u showed are gr8 though but i do think the wukong slander is insane
Wukong while not having much damage or armor strip for me is an invaluable frame because of his insane mobility which i use to clear the void capture mission in under 1 min and farm void relics really fast
I am in no way a wukong meat riders btw...my most used frame is nezha but now im bored of him so im using (quadratic scaling oberon...yes its a thing xD)
I just use wukong for farming relics which imo is a good thing for him to do
I havent used wukong much dmg wise but i have seen some amazing stuff with him
...something tells me u hate wukong xD
I am gonna try and get caliban and subsume him for his two for oberon ..i am also gona put it on banshe just because i want to replace her 4 with it and run precision intensify and armor strip to see if i can do a dollar store thermal sunder type nuke
I keep forgetting that context is extremely important when explaining a frame's viability. I do think on the low end Wukong is actually a really good frame, I definitely should've specified for endgame/endurance stuff specifically. I always forget the importance of specifying that, and then when I watch it back after posting it I seem like a meta simp cuck boy, but I swear I'm not. Hopefully I get better at explaining stuff as time goes on. I appreciate the feedback a lot.
Also, I don't hate wukong, I actually used to main him back before his rework. Ah, how time flies.
@Einzweig ah ok I see..and dw I didn't think u were a meta simp cuck boy lol
I myself like to use off meta strategies so I always appreciate seeing other using things many people say is "bad"..meta just means
Most efficient tatic possible..it doesn't mean the only thing...and that's the problem with many gamers now ah days
They always want meta instead of fun
Couldnt agree with you more, go on over to mougs latest video on how great synapse is with innate corrosive, top comment guy saying torid blah blah, im sick of people thinking all we should be using is the top stuff in trade chat. when i started warframe all i wanted was the top 5 stuff, got caliban and was shocked how anyone can say hes bad, great shield regen, armour strip and damage boost. Stahlta to me is the gun you get at mr10 and will carry you to 9999, if your new dont listen to 99 percent of people when they tell you a frame is bad or a gun, caliban is edcellent modt frames have a useless ability so why does he get so much death?
It really is depressing to see so many people only care about using whatever the most broken thing is. There are 57 frames and more weapons than I can keep track of, so why just use one? People also make it out like anything other than the most broken weapons or frames are unusable, when they're more than fine.
It is a general consensus because the general community that plays Warframe sucks at playing the game.
More true words have never been said.
*Never played him
I've literally never seen caliban, not even once. I am doubtful people even know he exists lol
@@WhatWillYouFind This is just so true.
He got buffed but not a lot of people noticed. None of his abilities really scaled with enemy level.
Until now
good content, keep it up bud👍
Honestly caliban just needs it scentient casting hability to have reduced cost on continuous castings like atlas punches, is ridiculous how the you have to tap the hability 3 times on full cost to get the full benefit of it. And his first hability to make adaptive damage or give invulnerability to have a chance to heal, otherwise, revenants hability is so much better to put on him
One warframe I really think needs a rework more thatn caliban is Equinox, it's habilitys are pretty outdated and many of them don't have a reason to wotk like they do nowdays. The damage reduction cost so much energy and the damage vulnerability is pretty tedious to use, the buff he gains when changing form there is no reason for those to be permanent
But those arguments against wukong to make Caliban look better made me laugh, wukong has different approaches although they are very individualistic, and at least I like survival better with life armor and health regen, so it's not that bad even on the path of steel If you have what it takes to equip it (like other warframes that use the same life and armor mechanics)
And no, ironically I dont usually play wukong xd
I tend to use more atlas, oberon, nezha and qorvex
You forgot about wukong clones augment, which is his only saving grace for me at least. Very good cc ability.
It's an ok CC tool. It unfortunately has a long cast time and is done on the clones location, which can be a problem when it runs away. Still not useless though, just not as consistent as I would like.
Not an insult *at all*: are you color blind? I noticed you said your frame and the EVAs are purple and blue, but they are actually purple and bright emerald green
Ah shit, no, I just can't speak properly. I meant to say green. xd
If there is one thing that doesn't belong into the game, then it's nourish as a helminth ability. Especially for higher level content, it's by far the most braindead pick that always works and most of the time single-handedly solves energy economy for a plethora of builds, and that's even post nerf. Roar would most likely take its place in regards to usefulness if it wasn't an option but that's still something to consider as it costs a truckload of energy and having no energy in high levels is equal to imminent death.
Small edit: people seem to forget how many builds become possible only due to nourish. And i'm gonna bet my a** there is not a single ability in existence that enables that many builds or is in any way comparable to nourish.
I'm not going to even try to argue for Nourish, since you're right. But while there are other good energy helminths (Protea, Citrine, Gara, Voruna, Vauban) there are *no* alternatives to Roar.
Roar is the *only* Helminth ability that increases ability damage. The sole. Single. One. You talk about "enabling builds", my dude, Roar is unmatched there.
Other frames *have* a universal faction damage effect, like Vauban's Overdriver, but only Roar can be shared.
@@Glamador the simple alternative to roar are faction damage mods, of course they don't apply to all enemies and they don't apply to abilities. But a base 30% roar rather complements builds other than making them possible in the first place. Also, since viral from nourish applies to most damaging abilities, it might as well add more overall damage than roar if the ability doesn't inflict any dots. Thus, often times roar might even be inferior damage wise which is the only thing it is supposed to bring to the table.
And no, vauban's helminth is NOT good for energy even though it works with archon stretch (which should better fit the build), it's quite consistent income but weak compared to other options.
@@NiceGameInc I strongly disagree. Viral is common and easy to apply with any number of weapons or companions. And Roar is *multiplicative* with viral. If you want to scale ability damage there is simply no option other than Roar.
You want to one-shot with Reave? Roar. You want to scale ability DoTs like Aqua Blades, Blaze Artillery, Inferno, Dark Verse, or Elemental Sandstorm? Roar.
The difference between Roar and no Roar on a slash Elemental Sandstorm build is like 50-80 KPS. It takes it from inviable to viable. Same with Reave.
But it isn't so much "enabling" those builds insomuch as there are simply no better, or even preferential, options. *Nothing* else scales those abilities' damage.
I'll entertain that armor strip may be more impactful on Protea, but Ember already strips and slash damage ignores armor. You can use Heat Inherit to apply faction mods to heat DoTs but, again, no other helminths affect those *at all* so if you want a helminth, the "choice" is still just Roar.
@@Glamador Fair enough. Dispensary with equilibrium is probably the next best thing for energy and in the high levels, given one runs equilibrium and synth deconstruct, any compagnion that can't be kept alive with pack leader (forcing one to run a melee build) will be dead 95% of the time further narrowing down options.
Concerning roar: if you can maintain it in endurance (probably anything but void cascade) it's definitely a great option. But my point about nourish isn't that it can enable abilities to apply viral but instead get a huge damage boost in the form of viral damage which in the far majority of cases is the best damage type when enemies are stripped off their defenses. So the thing about nourish is much less about inflicting viral but about the actual damage buff it offers. And with some power strength, the buff makes abilities hit way harder than with any roar build I know of.
Take vauban for example just cause: nourish applies to his flechette orbs, they can now proc viral AND receive the extra viral damage which in the case of abilities can be considered a separate multiplier. Given that enemies are armor stripped, they will take way more damage from a nourish build than from any kind of roar build. And that's without including vauban's overdriver into the equation. So any ability that can profit from nourish that doesn't apply dots (or where proc weighting isn't influenced by nourish which is the case with forced procs), will be by far superior to any kind of roar build.
@@NiceGameInc The thing about "ability" damage from things like Final Stand, Flechette Orb, Regulators, and several others is that it isn't actually "ability damage". It's weapon damage that counts doubly as an ability. For those, Nourish is the uncontested king BUT that's for the exact same reason that Roar is for all of the *other* "pure" abilities.
Vigorous Swap, Arcane Arachne, and Holster Amp also affect these weapon+ability damage sources, in case you didn't know.
Warframe is made of spaghetti, I swear.
If the farm wasn't so annoying, more people would at least try Caliban.
Is Quick Thinking (energy tanking) worth it on him? On paper it should work really well with his passive, basically 360% efficiency.
After i finish farming him I'd like to try a build with Chroma's elemental ward, mostly because it fits so well with Caliban's adaptation theme!
I suppose you could try quick thinking, though I'm not sure it's worth the mod slot. Yes you become tankier, but on the low end he usually doesn't need the extra help from something like that, and on the high end quick thinking is worthless. I'd suggest just trying it out to see if you feel like it helps or not.
i was gonna make him helminth feed, i'll be farming some resources on sp with caliban to make it up to my helminth.
Unironically sentient slam is an incredibly underrated helminth ability.
Alot of frames are bad because of scaling and balance mire so then having a bad kit. Like certain frames are godly until a certain level.
The downside of Caliban is that NOW he can be good, but TTK is still much higher than other warframes even though his kit is "usable." Usable isn't good enough when out the gates so many other warframes just feel better without needing the deep dive. I hope he gets buffed and reworked.
I love him but he needs a rework his 3rd ability has potential but is horrible because the sentients don't even adapt like the real ones from the story then his first needs to be completely stripped away inaros had it first lol his two is ok but not great or appropriate his forth is garbage as well he needs a complete rework I do hope his 3rd is fixed thank u kindly
Purple and BLUE? Friend you either misspoke or are colorblind. Hopefully the former, or if it is the latter you already know 😅
Yeah I misspoke, words are not my specialty.
@@Einzweig No worries! It just made me wonder if you were colorblind like some of my old coworkers have been.
How do u get caliban lmao
You have to sell your soul.
stop lying to yourself caliban users!!
Never!
This is cool, I saw somebody popping off with caliban before in duviri and I thought, man I gotta find out what he's doing. Will I play him after watchiing this video... no. And really the reason I wont is simply because he doesn't have a prime. I've got a lot of other frames and weapons begging for forma, and unless I'm 100% sure I'm going to stick with it, it'll sit at the bottom of the list, I don't want to refarm him for helminth just to refarm him again when he gets a prime you know...
I know there is still a bunch of wukong mains out there who would get offended by this video. I'd say I'd agree with you, but tbf, I also reckon he is still meta. And that's because he is the best frame for speed running spy missions. Even though it's just 1 mission type, with the variety of frames out there, that's enough for me to call him good. The worst frame for me at the moment has got to be nyx, and that's not even close.
Its not even fair to caliban to completely shit on his 1 since its at least a fun movement tool and a heal.
Shitting on wukong is also not fair, even if you hate his clone he does have cc. 2 second stun on cloud and a ragdoll on defy.
The blind is there which I should've mentioned, but it isn't enough to make a difference. The short blind is made worthless by the fact that you just float away while having invulnerability, so it ends up doing nothing for you. The ragdoll on defy isn't worth mentioning though, as the long cast time of defy and animations make it a horrible CC to cast in the heat of things.
I was actually working on a Wukong video, but I literally couldn't find anything interesting to do with him, and he is just a raging meh. That being said, if someone enjoys Wukong, more power to them. People should play who they like, regardless of whether or not they're great.
What blind? If you are talking about clouds stun the only real purpose it serves is access to finishers for crescendo imho but it still exists. Defy cc is at least as good as the knockdown off caliban 4 so maybe give it that same gloom consideration. Defy as a damage ability might be useful if we move a armor strip on instead and that obviously fixes clone problems. He is at least a kind of fun meat frame but i'd agree he doesn't belong above C+ unless afk is a consideration these days.
@@Einzweig
@@hothstorm Ah yeah idk why the hell I typed blind, I meant stun, it was a schizo moment. The stun it offers has its uses, and I suppose it could be used in tandem with gloom, but there are many other helminths that could be of much more use to Wukong. I went a little too hard on him, but I still don't think he's as good as he should be.
This major cope,
his 1 we don't even talk about
his 2 has enemy cap and the cc stops when anything touches them while its capped
his 3 is junky, clunky, slow, costs a lot of energy and time for trash shield regen and mediocre cc you can achieve by having a sentinal with a clone mod,not to mention you need to cast it 3 times.
his 4 costs a lot of base energy, is the slowest armor strip in game too, and his passive is just trash.
He requires lots of investments for his energy economy and shards because of his SLOW casting. He is just dependent of the weapon you bring. he is junky and requires a lot of micro management
He is just a worst version of weapon platformers we have currently. He isn't unusable and works for most content but that is like every warframe. I just cant think of a frame worse than caliban
Also wukong is far from the worst warframe, he is the best spy warframe and comfortable spee run warframe next to titania. He also has a lot of s so its impossible for him to die. saying caliban is better than wukong is coping
PS: The overshield sometimes stops working.\
The enemy cap on his 2 is high enough that it will almost never actually be reached, and if you do reach it, you're playing him wrong. The aggro from his 3 is higher than sentinel clone mods, and by a substantial amount, making it much better than that. The shield regen isn't "trash", it is an incredible tool for survival. The energy cost is irrelevant when that is fixed so easily. The main issue is just that you have to cast it three times, but thanks to the shield regen and literally any augur mod/brief respite, you're pretty much invincible while casting it.
His 4 really doesn't take that long to cast, and it is an extremely nice armor strip. It has an easy strength breakpoint to reach, a decently sized radius, and a persistent zone of armor strip. It also completely strips shields, and has no cap on how many can be out. Yet again with energy, that is a very easy thing to fix. I've used all the armor strips in the game extensively, and Caliban's 4 is what I find to be the 2nd most comfortable and convenient one to use, beaten only by pillage, though that requires significantly higher breakpoints.
His passive isn't trash either, it's literally just free DR. 99% of the player base has never and will never do level cap, which means the DR is actually of value. Not to mention it also applies to teammates, and you never have to think about it, it's just always passively there.
I don't think Caliban is in a perfect position, and he definitely could use some tweaks, but he isn't nearly as bad as you say. Yes he has downsides, but he also has a lot of upsides too, and that can be said about most frames in the game.
Finally is Wukong, I will admit that for speed running and general use outside of endurance he does have value, but in the context of level cap I still don't think he's good. His 4 is worthless, his 1 has some of the worst AI I've ever experienced, and both his 2 and 3 don't allow you to do anything while active except run away. Not taking damage is nice, but it can be a waste of time when you're unable to fight back. At the end of the day that's personal preference I suppose, so to each their own.
The thing I immediatly mentioned is even though you try to make him appealing you are immediatly trashing each and every single one of his abilities and that is the very reason we all consider him to be bad:
If you can play a different Warframe that does the same thing like Caliban but BETTER and WITHOUT DRAWBACKS then why the fuck would you play Caliban?
His 1 disables him.
His 2 applies the lift status which makes hitting things more difficult while a good CC ability should make it more easy to aim at targets cause they stop moving.
His 3 does NOT regenerate the resource they are supposed to regenerate the very moment you need it MOST (when they are at 0).
His 4 is limited by his line of sight and trajectory.
Rhino does basically the same shit as Caliban but better:
Charge is better than Caliban's 1, Ironskin is better than Caliban's 3, Stomp is better than Caliban's 2 and Roar is better than the damage vuln. Why the fuck would I play Caliban? And considering everything here NOW when we KNOW he is due for a rework is just a waste of time.
I didn't trash anything other than his 1 my guy, and that's because it is very much doo doo water, though that just makes it the helminth slot. He also does very different stuff than Rhino. Rhino's 1 is also practically worthless, his 2 works very differently than shield regen, his damage buff is nice but worse than having armor strip in most situations, and his stomp doesn't apply a vulnerability to enemies. Comparing the two makes no sense.
I do think that it's probably better to just wait for the rework, but I still enjoy him a lot right now. Also, what do you mean his 4 having a problem with LoS and trajectory? From what I can tell the zone it makes is unaffected by objects, and I literally have no clue what the trajectory is supposed to mean. It shoots a beam forward and makes a very large shield/armor strip zone, I'd say that's quite nice.
@@Einzweig OK I might need to elaborate on this comparison. Of course the abilities are different but they serve certain purposes:
Rhino's 1 moves him, as does Caliban's 1.
Rhino's 2 protects him (with overguard, imho a better defense than shields due to the included status immunity) on demand, which is the same "task" as the shield regen of your minions.
Rhino's 3 gives a damage buff, similar to a damage vulnerability or an armor strip. Yes of course armor strip is way more potent and the damage increase from Roar and a damage vulnerability stack with each other in the end but the "task" of that ability is "boost damageouput" - and sadly it does that better than a vuln due to the double dipping on status effects.
Rhino's 4 applies a radial, unconditional CC. Caliban only aims the ultimate in front of him. Caliban's 2 CCs the enemies by lifting them, a status effect that is detrimental at best to your ability to kill an enemy. Rhino's stomp also lifts the enemies but does not drop them when hit. The best kind of CC comes from Harrow because enemies hit by Condemn are actively presenting their head to you so you can headshot them (which is why the Knell has the Headshot mechanics). Lift is just ... urgh compared to all the other CC out there. The one thing that makes things in Warframe jump up a tier in viability has always been the fact "you do not need to aim with it". I personally really felt it back in the Catchmoon meta, but we got repeated applications of this fact in the Bramma AoE Meta, the Nukor Chaining Meta and most current Incarnons that do not truly need to be aimed. Not having to look at something to affect it is paramount. The fact that Caliban's ultimate ability only affects enemies in front of him compared to all the abilities out there that do not need to even be in the same reality as the guy whose day you are ruining is just hillarious to me.
Also yes, you are trashing all of his abilites. All of them are introduced with "This ability is extremely awkward, has some issues, or looks stupid at first look, which they are, but they do have good things." - If you could remove the first part of these introductions to the abilities we could agree on Caliban having value. But if even the non "doodoo poop" abilities have caveats ... I'm sorry what?
The funniest part of Caliban is that we were in the middle of a metagame where all the things Caliban was able to do were already considered "not good enough" and was never looked at again to move him to where he would have had to have been back when he released.
@@Salbeira The survivability from overguard compared to shields + aggro are fundamentally different and both have ups and downs, I don't think a direct comparison is worth making, though even then I personally would prefer Caliban, but that's just for the content I play. Having to ask your 4 on Caliban is of little consequence when you can aim it at the ground if you want it on your position, so being able to aim it to be anywhere is a massive upside I'd say. The CC from Rhino is obviously much better than what you get with Caliban's 2, but that will hopefully change in the future. For now, the damage vulnerability is still extremely nice to have. Comparing roar and Caliban's 4 simply because they are both aimed at increasing one's damage output sounds logical in theory, but it doesn't really work out like that. In low end content roar is better, in high end content armor strip is better. If I'm doing anything past level 1,000, armor strip is literally required to kill anything, and once stripped enemies die quite fast anyways so I don't need another source of damage increase tbh.
I also disagree about me "trashing" all of his abilities. I've watched it back more than once, and it doesn't give me that impression at all. I'm honest and upfront about the downsides, I then proceed to explain all the good things about the abilities. If you took it as me trashing them, then I've no clue what to do about that, as that was neither the intention nor what it ended up sounding like to me.
If I'm doing under level 1k and I just want to turn my brain off then Rhino is without a doubt the better option. But if I'm doing long disruptions or void cascade missions, which are also some of the most rewarding activities in the game, I'd much rather be Caliban. At the end of the day their kits are just aimed at different content. If you disagree, then that's your prerogative, and there's nothing else I could say to change that.
isn't it the other way around. Caliban does everything rhino does but better? Having damage vulnerability, CC and armor strip in one package plus practical invulnerability with a hybrid shield tank shield gate build makes caliban more versatile than rhino and better suited for level cap content. Plus if you really need more damage you can just subsume roar on caliban to multiply the multiplicative damage.
Mf doesn't know the difference between trashing or acknowledging/pointing out the downside or flaw of an ability.
Firstly, it's reh-spy-eyeht.. not reh-sphit-... Brief Respite there's a fucking "e" right there...
You've listed plenty of reasons why Caliban is bad and outright passed over them like they weren't any part of any reason why us intelligent people understand why he's bad.
If you HAVE to replace an ability on a Warframe in order for a Warframe to have better synergy with their own kit; that Warframe by default is bad. Subsuming is supposed to add to a frames already viable kit; not fix them... Doing DE's job without getting paid for it... Imagine that.
I immediately disregard any loser who tries to explain away problems that are problems especially when your follow up and reasoning is just that-
"Well, I don't think they're bad because I'll ignore all the bad parts about them and exaggerate how good I think they are because I don't know how to reason or make decisions, or compare and contrast or logically and rationally think, I just justify things without any tangible reasoning..."
I could quite literally go back through this video and completely debunk everything you just stated verbatim. Caliban needs more than a buff; he needs a complete rework. Just like I stated for Sevagoth... Caliban does not behave like Sentient nor does he perform like one. Battlyst, Catalyst, etc-An actually idea is to literally allow him to be a FULL summoner frame who just summons different Sentients that do different things. Sevagoth is the same, he does not seem like a Pirate, a Ghost, a Phantom, or a Reaper... He behaves more like a damn Pokemon. And you people keep trying to defend these ass frames.
I think you need to calm your tits my guy, you're over here seething because a random guy on the internet thinks something in a game is good, you may need to reevaluate your life if you've got this many f*cks to give.
The vast majority of frames in the game have at least one borderline worthless ability, which is always easily replaced by a helminth. I don't think that should be the case, but it just is. The unfortunate truth is that it will likely never change, so you've gotta make do with what you have. And I really don't think it's the end of the world.
While I do think Caliban is much better than people give him credit for, that doesn't mean I think he's perfect. If DE were to make positive changes to his kit, I would be more than happy to accept that. Even if that's the case though, I don't think he's immediately bad because he could use some buffs, that would rule out most frames as worthless.
If every frame had literally no downsides and were just insanely busted, then the game would be unbelievably boring. A frame with flaws that are fair and can be worked around is much more interesting to me than a braindead frame like Saryn.
Half of your comment is you just throwing words around while providing absolutely nothing of value, and the other half is you throwing a temper tantrum like a toddler and insulting people who like Caliban. If anyone's opinion is going to be disregarded, it's yours. You clearly aren't capable of being a civilized human being, so I suggest you go back to the kid's table.
I've played most of the frames in the game, and I've taken many of them to level cap, and I can safely say that Caliban is one of the easiest to do it with. He has incredible survivability, a large AoE armor strip that persists, and some level of crowd control. He also does all of that while being fun to play. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean everyone else hates him too. There are 57 frames in the game now, so quit whining and go play one of the other ones.
And just to end things off, you're wrong, I did pronounce respite correctly. Have you ever looked up the pronunciation? Try reading a dictionary, going to school, or using Google, you could really use the help they can provide. Have fun being a clown. 🤡
@@Einzweig First video
czcams.com/video/2DfmMCM9LcY/video.htmlsi=8PZpiXacNLZCHTRU
Second video
czcams.com/video/eWmgcOUXHz8/video.htmlsi=lRNkSIxVwIHhU3Rv
The reason we now this is correct is due to combining the prefix and suffix-this is exactly why I'm calling you stupid, because you are. Re-is pronounced as REE, not Reh... the literal word is pronounced as Spyht, because of the "E" ding a ling... Spite; even in English "spit" is the word your are pronouncing you silly bafoon. I'm not even British I'm American and I know this. Putting the two parts together with common sense and the exact explanation I just gave does not eliminate the pronunciation of the "E" IT IS NOT SILENT and "Re" is not abbreviated.
I hurl insults because I am infinitely tired of idiots like you would argue the shape of water or is water wet... Ignore the insults.
If every frame was busted in the game the game would NOT be boring. Your ADHD misinterpreted all the time it seems...
The actually fun comes from the identity of the frame, who and what they are and how do they do, what they are capable of in creative ways. You cannot argue why frames lack viability then pretend it's a good thing when Caliban, Qorvex and Sevagoth are not played, go ahead and argue frames not being played as often as the rest of the cast being a good thing and-due to them having to be baby-sat because they have nothing to do with their kits or they require ridiculous investments to make them work even partially after that they are carried by their weapons and their abilities are relatively ignored.
Caliban the same for Sevagoth's theme is out of whack. For all the things Sentients do, and their different types, Battalyst, Conculyst, Mimics, Teralyst-etc. Caliban is weaker than all of them. It should be unerringly underwhelming and disappointing.
*_Razor Gyre_*
You admitting to this ability being bad and just ignored it... In my opinion it's copying from other Warframe's the same as all of Caliban's other abilities, just worse than the copies... Razor Gyre's properties lose there value due to the way those things work together, as in the properties. ((Sarcasm)A spinning damage ability that siphons health, which Sentient does that Battalyst?(Sarcasm))-Razor Gyre has Revenant's Danse Macabre (Revenant's 4) functionality, and apparently an added tap functionality that causes Caliban to bounce very haphazardly and ridiculously to deal literally no meaningful damage or health siphon or team buffs and can synergize with Sentient Wraith, that's the added buff to this ability... The drain on this ability is maddening based upon all of these facts; you must compare this to the copied from abilities when they are this similar even if they are used for different purposes, one is an AOE laser beam that adds damage and scales and kills (Danse Macabre), the other is CC ragdoll that displaces and or disables enemies (Sandstorm), then it's Caliban's that doesn't even compare now... Apply this logic to all of Caliban.
*_Sentient Wraith_*
A literal generic boring stomp wave that is just lazy, it causes damage reduction which is okay but the problem here is that this move isn't an impressive thing based upon what the other Sentients do. The animation, the effects, the properties are all just unimaginably boring; Inaros is sand based, he has sand properties... it works with his theme and as sandstorms are a thing and it looks and feels like something; it works and isn't underwhelming. Caliban's stomp randomly has a worse Vauban 2's function as you can sometimes barely see lifted enemies, and to buff this they allowed it to have damage reduction properties... again... What Sentient has this...
*_Lethal Progeny_*
This ability is just... It literally says to call upon Caliban's sentient aspect... This quite literally means to call upon Caliban's imagination of itself... Apparently there's 3 of him. This ability we know could have been much better for how every other A.I. in the game functions if DE allows these things to do "stuff" such as fighting... Giving Caliban shields seems to be the priority but is placed as a secondary function in the text as it is written. This means they are supposed to fight first. Giving Caliban shields is not their primary purpose. This could be why they were designed to only give shields while he has them, they are not supposed to outright protect Caliban.
I love this ability's idea. Which is how Caliban can be fixed I'll explain later...
*_Fusion Strike_*
DE has a beam fetish... The power of 3, real troglodyte energy...
I understand why he has 3 beams for the 3 Sentients he's supposed to embody...
Beams and AOE explosions are unapologetically overused in Warframe as it's a consequence to the nature of the game. Again, lazy and loses relevancy when AOEs are just better than killing enemies in a game of hordes. They took it a step further by allowing it to be a beam to start out as three beams then come together as one to simulate an AOE... But wait, there's more... Even the damn name is just bad. His 3rd ability is "Lethal Progeny" and 4rth "Sentient Wrath", then "Fusion-Strike" striking is something you do with your body as a physical thing. A beam is not a strike; they could have literally called it a Fusion Beam, it still would have been ass but holy shit; what are words... The only reason anyone would argue for this ability is because it has a debuff, this by default is supposed to make it good... To ignore the application of the function of the thing-the same argument against Sevagoth's dumbfounded kit-giving these abilities passes because they apply a property you like or favor regardless of how... This ignorance is inherently dishonest and disregards the frame and then, they become underwhelming compared to other frames or even by themselves in what they do, this with all of these factors makes a frames ass by being devalued objectively...
*_Solution_*
To fix Caliban as I stated in the comment above reimagine him. What does it actually mean to be a "Twisted hybrid of Warframe and Sentient." What does it mean to be a Warframe... What does it mean to be a Sentient.
Revenant is a Ediolon Sentient Warframe... Literally if an Eidolon was compacted into a Warframe so to speak...
Caliban is a hybrid of what... Battlyst? Oculyst? Conculyst? Mimic? Teralyst etc... All of them? Then made into a Warframe... He should be unimaginably stronger than Revenant.
An idea is that he could be a frame that embodies just one of them and they could make a series of Warframe's that are Warframe versions of different types of Sentients... Caliban seems to be only a Battlyst... This would potentially makes him weaker than Revenant.
@@parabellum4622 See, being civilized ain't so difficult. I do think it would be cool to lean harder into the sentient theme, though I think he fits it decently well already. In the lore the sentients aren't particularly special at first, what makes them so good is the ability to adapt. Not so much made for being great at one thing, but rather good at multiple things, a jack of all trades if you will. I'm not the best person to describe why he at least somewhat fits the theme already, but there's a video on Caliban done by Prof Dysto where he explains it much better.
While it would be cool to have multiple different sentient themed frames, I know that DE isn't going to commit that much time into new frames centered around a theme that they've mostly moved on from. Making Caliban a summoner frame could work, but then he'd be creeping into the territory of Nekros, and I think that would just make Nekros even more pointless than he already is.
Instead, I think it would be cool to make him capable of changing forms into the different sentient types. Give him an ability that cycles through different options, like Vauban's 2, and have it be the different forms. It could change the effects of his other three abilities based on what form he's in. Each one could have its own combat theme, making it all about adapting to what's needed. One for CC, one for damage, one for survivability, and one for debuffing.
Again, I don't think Caliban is perfect by any means, and changes to him would be very nice, I just don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be. I personally enjoy him more than most other frames, he's a lot of fun and has all the tools I typically find myself needing.
Regardless of anyone's opinions though, he will be getting reworked, as DE has already stated that he's the next on the chopping block after Inaros. I'm interested to see what they do with him, while also a little scared that he won't be as much fun for me as he is now. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
@@Einzweig Damn, that is a good idea as well.