Why Every Halo Killer Failed
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- čas přidán 5. 03. 2023
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Once upon a time, Halo was the biggest game in the world. Everybody wanted a piece of the pie. But very few succeeded. This is the story of how an industry failed to grasp one game.
#gaming #writing - Hry
Alert: There is a spam channel imitating me in the comments section. Do not believe his lies. I am not running a telegram or any giveaways.
Video sources:
czcams.com/video/QNy8lbVIFjI/video.html
czcams.com/video/nGQIQljaAc0/video.html
twitter.com/haileyx24/status/1618722806467903488
Yeah I've seen the whole Telegram scam pop in other youtubers comments sections and I just ignore it.
Why don't u do giveaways? Let me be the winner . I want a $500 steam card, but u can advertise it as a $1k giveaway and we spilit it
It'll make u look good and get more views
Half life had at least the same amount of game changing features
Casimir III perhaps because it makes no sense.
@@KrolKaz Boi no channel wants to invest in shitty Steam giveaways, and it certainly won't make him look better or get him more views
In the end, the Halo killer was itself.
This is gonna be top comment for sure
Exactly right.
damn I was gonna comment this but then saw yours
343i had all the resources in the world, much better hardware and 6 years of time. Yet they still fucked up Halo: Infinite. At this point we should just give the IP to Certain Affinity
*Suicide*! -czcams.com/video/GtStI4MGF5I/video.html
Halo fans: It sucks that 343 killed Halo.
Sony: Were it so easy.
Best comment
😆👍
stop this cringe copy/paste shit
Resistance fall of man and its games were probably 1 of the games other than a few other titles that got me playing both bungie's halo games/ 360 games and Playstation 3 games
makes no sense because 343 did kill it off as soon as they stepped in..
15:43, they probably had so many generic human enemies because it enabled them to just use pre-existing animations from an asset library.
:o
Enemies are either Chess or Checker pieces in a game. You just got to make the board they fight on the most interesting part sometimes.
Glad you brought up Republic Commando as a good halo-inspired example. If only Imperial Commando was made.
If only, I can only dream of such a great star wars FPS. In that regard the same thing that happened to Halo happened to Battlefront.
"You see Battlefront is like Battlefield, except watered down. And Heroes tons of heroes!"
Yea, that went well...
Halo inspired? There is nothing halo in it. Its a tactical shooter inspired by swat and rainbo six.
@@robertnomok9750 I agree. But the multiplayer aspect however is definitely Halo inspired.
@@CyberLou honestly if they just made Battlefront more battlefieldy it would have been a much better game.
@@robertnomok9750 "Nothing" Halo in it? Idk about that one Chief.
TBF to Killzone, the devs have said that they never intended it to be a Halo killer, it was just incorrectly marketed.
And they went their own way with the style, which I think it's why even a Halo fan like myself can still respect and admire what that series evolved into: it's a different take on sci-fi than Halo, and I would love to see new games in that setting, tbh.
Killzone was also good, shame what happened with 3 and Shadow Fall. Even Liberation and Mercenary were pretty good
@@Garry_Combine I sort of like the ideas in 3, but it was sort of too over the top in many areas; Shadowfall is once more a case of a decent idea executed in the worst way possible, imho. But I think there are many good ideas in the series, and the potential for more games is still there.
@@Garry_Combine Agreed. Killzone 2 really felt like you were in a dangerous war, but Killzone 3 felt like you were in an over-the-top cringey action movie...
@@kinghoodofmousekind2906 Oh yeah, I want to like what they tried to do, but the execution was bad
About the dude bro thing: Halo is one of the rare games that both dude bros and geeky guys (like me) loved. Halo used to be both a simple shooting game with deeper mechanics and an action film with deep sci-fi lore. I think that it's one of the reason of Halo's success.
I think some of the most influential pieces of media manage to walk that line really well, and it lends to the staying power and legacy. I always think of Scarface as a perfect example of that dichotomy. You can get drunk and eat pizza with a bunch of frat dudes and watch it while (poorly) quoting all the classic lines and cheering for Tony, or you can do a scholarly reading of the themes in an academic setting.
Halo was a simple game where you got to shoot at cool aliens, but then they introduced the Flood. Little me was so traumatized I had to stop playing the game, and the Flood still disgusts me to this day. Also, in my honest opinion, the Necromorphs from Dead Space are way better.
@@dkkanofkash8798 I don't know if I'd rather face the flood or the necromorphs. Both are terrifying, the flood does have that special WTF spot in my heart though.
Holy shit, you finally put it into words for me. The duality of the story being incredibly bad ass yet also very interesting is a huge part of why I love Bungie Era Halo.
I regret to inform you that "dude bros" and "geeky guys" have more similarities than differences.
Timestamp for game :
3:23 : Chrome
5:33 : Warhammer 40k Fire Warriors
9:11 : Chaser
10:14 : Killzone
12:10 : Star Wars Republic Commandos
13:57 : Area 51
15:09 : Pariah
16:24 : Resistance Fall of Man
20:22 : Timeshift
20:58 : Crisis
23:02 : Haze
27:12 : The Conduit
28:12 : Turok 2008
29:57 : Nova
Crysis and Turok were meant to compete with Halo? Crysis had a much steeper learning curve than Halo...just like Halo has (had?) a steeper learning curve than call of doody.
@@DerMeister821 crysis 2 was basically halo in new york
This is kind of strange list of games, dubbed by the author as "Halo killers" or even "Halo clones". Some of them have nothing to do with Halo, while others takes only some elements, like regenerative health or weapons limit.
At least 3 of those games are really good
@@moonasha I didn't get that feeling at all playing it. Crysis 2 and Halo 2 were both good games (and I replayed both many times), and they felt very very different to me. Crysis 2 expanded on Crysis...so I have no idea how you think that. lol
Turok also had a cool feature I haven't seen in another game before, slowly releasing the trigger on the controller with the bow drawn slowly releases the string and you save the arrow.
Turok's bow was the best part of the game
Based turok
Most FPS don’t have bows…
Halo 3 had something like that, the charged plasma pistol could be cancelled by gently releasing the trigger on the controller.
many just have you press reload to cancel or let you switch off
I remembered how Unreal was called a "Quake clone" or a "Quake killer" when it was first released. It didn't kill Quake nor was it a clone of it.
I remember seeing ads about how it was the Quake 2 killer.
Arena Shooter boom.
Cod was a Medal of Honor killer, thats the only time the game was called something and then did that thing.
Fuck COD4 was the Halo killer also.
Marketing types have no original ideas.
@@RusticRonnie Halo and CoD coexisted since they were very different games. Besides, Halo 4 was the ultimate Halo killer, not any particular CoD game.
I was there 1,000 years ago when Halo came out. I remember playing it at GameStop. Every game prior to it felt claustrophobic and dark but Halo was like stepping outside for the first time.
So basicality , halo Was the end of the bit-64 Claustrophobic efecto.
WOW, that explain, in fact, everything....; thanks so much !! 😲😲
Resistance was such a good game. I remember the huge multiplayer battles as well. I really really liked it
Resistance 2's huge multiplayer was goated
@@bradleykalinoski99427 The COOP too.
No wonder many of those "Halo killers" developers ended working on 343i's Halo.
Bro I remember you on comments way back in the day shitting on nu-Halo. Absolutely giga-based for still keeping it up.
@@perrytran9504 Haha wow. Insane you can remember me since then. But yeah, I have been shitting on nu-Halo, 343i, and their shills since 2013.
@@WonderMePartyStrip xd
@@WonderMePartyStrip you're doing batman's work, son. keep it up. 343i's Halos are ASSSS
Bungie Halo sucks too.
"these games were halo made by people who hate halo"
so this is what 343 halos in the 2000s would have looked like. fascinating...
the design leads at 343i actually worked on some of those games.
@@deriznohappehquite The plot thickens...
@@deriznohappehquite That explains everything then
Love seeing some Republic Commando appreciation, such an underrated game. I'm not much of a Star Wars fan these days, but I still wish it got a sequel.
Its not just sophisticated ai goals, but also enemies with enough hp to achieve those goals. I dont think its enough to have a beefy bulletsponge enemy, its also important to have them actively trying to achieve something (other than defeating the player, but still in service of doing so).
Half-Life 2 is, in my opinion, a game that partially falters due to this. The combine have sophisticated AI, but they always go down with a short burst from your hitscan weapon.
@@deriznohappehquite Half life 2 would absolutely be better with more projectile based weapons. Hitscan kills the combat in the half life games. There's a reason the gravity gun is so fun
@@schmecklin377I always liked the hecu marines in half-life and especially the rework of them in black mesa. It just feels like they react more to situations like being shot at. They'll do things like run and crouch behind cover and bumrush you when you aren't looking.
@@schmecklin377 half lifes combat is fine, its half life 2s that is mediocre
half life could not have any more projectile weapons the setting does not allow for it
@@deriznohappehquite the combine have way more issues than just health
theyre slow, innacurate, provide little feedback and the map design doesnt help them at all
Your last video is correct about people not understanding halo. The average person will look at halo and think "COD but in space" and just try to do that, but people fail to realize halo is not your typical FPS. It has a lot of quirks to it that make it stand out and changing those quirks is what makes it not halo. Even Microsoft and 343 seem to not understand what halo is. So far the only people who have come close to understand halos gameplay are the devs of splitgate
The reason why Bungie was able to make Halo is because they were just trying to make a fun game. Halo killer type games often fail because the devs behind it are trying to make Halo rather than trying to make a fun game. ShreddedNerd if you are reading this don't try to make Halo, you will fail if you do. Instead try taking the pure essence of what you think makes a game fun and make something fun.
Which they would do if they every even once played the game.
It's as though the people making "halo clones" took a quote from the TV Show director, "I avoided playing Halo so I wouldn't be influenced by it."
Yeah and we saw them make “CoD in Space” and we got Infinite Warfare.
*Tell me how good that was.*
Maybe people want something new. Splitgate died and Infinite is struggling. If you scraped together all players in MCC it could be considered a middling player base.
You're actually stupid if you think splitgate is better in terms of core gameplay mechanics than halo infinite is. It took all the old devs leaving for it to happen, but 343 knows how to make a halo sandbox now.
I think the secret to Halo, that these other companies didn't get, was that Halo was raw passion. Bungie cared about so many minute details that most developers would overlook, even today. Bungie would argue with each other over anything and everything, it seems, because everyone wanted the game to be the best it could be. Everyone involved believed in the game. These other shooters were just people making a product. While Bungie was making deliberate decisions to *ensure* the game was timeless, the other studios were just *hoping* the game would be timeless
Polyphony digital used to be that way with Gran Turismo, especially during the PS2 era. Shame that both Halo and GT have found ways to fall off. Then again I’ve only played the even numbered GT games so I absolutely cannot speak on the quality of 7
That's why Destiny makes me so sad, that energy isn't there anymore. Bungie doesn't have that attention to detail & passion. They're too focused on going "Hey look we're legendary FPS pioneer Bungie!" instead of innovating on the genre like they were known for doing.
@@semajjarrett3877 yeah Bungie is just a shell of its former self. Bungie was made up of a lot of talented people who aren't there any more, and it shows. You'd hope the once cynical fratboy, Jason Jones, would steer things in a better direction, but he's become even more of a businessman more than anything.
@Semaj Jarrett So true. Don't get me wrong, I love D2 and play it constantly. You just don't feel the passion there anymore though.
The tau warrior not knowing how to use melee is just accurate
Only Commander Farsight knows how to melee.
It's Lore accurate
This. Love that respect to the lore.
Who needs the barbarity of melee when you can shot someone right in the face from 500+ meters away?
Fuck, the game is all corridors...! But none of that matters when the game crashes every damn minute.
Get that fire warrior a Coldstar with a Oniger Gauntlet and Thermonutronic Projector!!
Dope retrospective. To answer your question about what makes Halo, Halo, I would need like 10 paragraphs. But in short: A big part of what makes Halo, Halo, is the theme. It has more of a comic-book-like feel to it. Like, the Halo live-action series for example, there is a scene where two kids on a scrap planet are being chased by guards, and the little boy gets beaten to death by a baton. That's literally not Halo. Halo is you and your friends, driving a Warthog over grassy hills, blasting evil aliens (and working with really cool aliens). It's rated M, but it's not grotesque or disturbing. It feels more like you are in a Saturday morning cartoon, rather than a dystopian-realistic-type thing. So, nailing the theme is a huge part of Halo. (I'm not saying make Halo for kids, I'm just saying it should feel more like Chief is a superhero going into battle, rather than a sad story about humanity dying)
As for gameplay, all they needed to do to succeed was continue what it was. Why does 343 keep trying random crap? Just copy Halo 3, but add more levels, add cool and interesting characters and stuff, keep the gameplay mostly the same, etc. IMO, the best thing Halo could do right now is just do DLC for Master Chief Collection (And eventually make a direct sequel to Halo 3 that continues what Bungie started, rather than let a janky studio try to put their stamp on the franchise). More multiplayer maps, more Firefight maps, just make the same content but more of it! No need to try and reinvent the wheel here. Oh, and how about more split screen. It would be tight to go through the Halo trilogy with 4 people on 1 TV and to play Firefight with 4 people on 1 TV.
A Halo Killer you forgot is Darkwatch, imagine Halo but with vampire powers and in the Wild west, it even had a recharging shield system and the grenade-melee thing, I replayed it a few years ago and wasn't as bad as I thought it would be
I'll never forget that my first Doom experience was playing Chex Quest, which was just a cheap reskin of the original you could find in a cereal box 😒
"Cheap Reskin"
Chex Quest has a lot of heart for what it is.
Chex quest 1-3 (third one was made by one of the original artists back in like 07) are great games.
far from cheap
Avgn made a video on it pretty recently I believe.
Chex Quest was quality, no shame bro game on!
I loved chex quest! I played it after I played doom as a kid, and they absolutely nailed that kid friendly theme.
But you can destroy that by adding the Ketchup mod to chex quest...
I think having a lot of enemy diversity is really important. Memorable looking enemies each with very distinct roles in combat that are predictable so that you can strategize around them
Yeah, Halo and Doom nailed this aspect.
The effect of seeing the enemy types and switching between the right weapons to use while being shot at and moving is really engaging and adds so much to the fight
I loved Halo 1-3. Story, gameplay, music, atmosphere, those just hit right. Especially Halo 3 will always have a special place in my heart.
Halo is about 2 things: figuring out which weapons laying on the ground to take with you into the next segment, and enemies that react dynamically to what weapons you use
It’s interesting how Halo CE looks downright fast compared to those Halo killers.
Halo was very unique. It probably helps that the PlayStation had a difficult time with FPS games. The creators of Killzone have stated it was incredibly difficult to get the game running without lag or the frame rate dropping constantly, and they aren't the only developer's that had problems with FPS games.
@@Vergil666. The other consoles being less powerful probably did make Halo and Halo 2 more viable.
It's hilarious that most people can't realize that Halo had a medium paced agile shooter system with advanced physics. Most every other shooter even now, is either incredibly fast by comparison, or entirely the opposite and feels like a crawl. Very few games reach that nice medium pace afforded in Halo.
@@spartantnt1023 Halo 3 having a tiny FOV broke a lot of people’s brains, and the Halo franchise will never recover from it.
@@deriznohappehquite Yeah not many people realize your base movement speed is the same in all three trilogy games, it's just as you said 3 has the tiny FOV. You can easily verify this on PC by adjusting the FOV to be the same between these games.
About your recurring point of only using boring human weapons and enemies: That seems to be a trend in a lot of sci-fi games. Take the futuristic COD games, Titanfall (at least in terms of the regular weapons), and Valorant. You have so much potential for new weapons we've never seen before, and you make a space AK.
Killzone tried went with realiste weapon they didn't had any modeler so they just hired gun manufacturer for 3d models
Problem is, most times player like those old school balistic weapons. For example the endgame of Half-Life 2, you just have the updated gravity gun. You could shot those reflecting energy balls, but not quit aim right with it, kind of thing. I assume this is because you can not really estimate the outcome of your shots with those sci-fi weapons, or something like that... better use an oldschool bullet 😉
I've noticed that the good "halo killer" games take inspiration from halo to create something unique. Kinda like how dead space took inspiration from resident evil 4 but ended up being a unique game.
Ironically Halo killed itself by trying to blatantly copy other games. Just a recent iteration is Halo Infinite where apparently the game first tried to be an Overwatch clone, before they scrapped it and then turned it into a huge, massive open world with absolutely no content, like any other Ubisoft or open world game from the last decade.
Killzone will always have a special place in my heart. I actually really liked it despite it being so obnoxiously over-the-top and generic. But underneath it all, there's actually some interesting parallels and anti-parallels to our own history. It's also got some of the coolest enemy designs I've seen. There's almost nothing (other than Jin-Roh itself) that can create such a ghoulish design out of red eyes and a gas mask. Had it not been released or marketed around Halo's primacy I think it would have turned out liked. (Also, if the writing was a bit better). The series might be dead as hell and considered trash but I think it's a bit of a gem. In retrospect, it's the Helghast who made the series memorable for me and I wish they were better utilized instead of being generic space communist Nazis fighting against generic space United Nation grunts.
(Side Note: The Resistance series also has a place in my heart despite it being crappy looking back. But once again, it was the Chimera who made the story and game interesting).
I never played Killzone, but I played all the Resistance games last year and I thought they were damn fine games. Resistance 2 even reminded me a lot of Halo 2. It was the odd one out in the trilogy and it changed up it’s core gameplay in favor of Multiplayer, but even still. If you want to talk Halo clones, Resistance 2 is the closest the series has ever gotten to Halo.
On a side note, I do think it’s kinda strange that Sony had 2 alternate history WWII shooters going on at once with Resistance and Killzone.
Killzone was a great series. The first one was comparatively rough but it had its own thing going that really made its own. They liked trickling weapons throughout the campaign so it's just ISA and Helghast rifles at the beginning. The different characters you play as have their own stats and they have their own weapon proficiency, some characters have alternate paths. It makes me wish they kept that aspect in the later games but they more than made up for it with the fun multiplayer, and the feel of the weapons.
I agree I loved the different guns as a kid and the splitscreen multiplayer was fun with friends.
It was not halo but the weapons were super cool!
It was sweet I had killzone on ps vita and that’s all I played as a kid
My biggest issue with Killzone was the awful accuracy and spongy enemies, especially Killzone 3, it felt like i was shooting BB guns.
Physics is what makes Halo. The interactability with the environment is the core of Halo. Beyond even the A.I and the gunplay. I remember the first time I drove the warthog, and hit a sick jump! THAT was the moment, I Fell in love with Halo.
The landscapes became a playground of high speed drifting and vehicle flips. I'll never forget the surprise of the banshee after rescuing the group of Marines, and how it can become an epic vehicle chase through the canyons, as it tries to crash into you.
More over, that whole experience can be drastically different each time you play Halo. Because, Halo gives you freedom, you don't even have to use the warthog. You can take on that same banshee, in a climactic stare down, with just your courage and a well-placed grenade.
Halo Lets you write the action scenes, it gives you all the tools to make this sandbox your castle. And that sandcastle can be as grand, or as ridiculous, as you want it to be.
I will always love Halo because it empowered me as a player, instead of dragging me along as a spectator.
tbh, great physics is one of the primary reasons I like most Valve games
Oh man, when you run out of the Forerunner underground facility with the light bridge, and you jump off the hillocks and the gunner on thr warthog yells "Yeeee-ah!" and fistpumps towards the sky...that was the moment I knew this game was something else.
@@veretos7 The momentum based movement and funny physics are why Halo and Source games are my preferred first person shooters.
@@veretos7 there are barely any valve games nowadays
@@hoonterofhoonters6588 valve needs to make new fps game
Very nice video bro, obviously you put a lot of effort on this one, wish you the best
Resistance and Killzone were great games I loved playing them when I was younger
Shield lets you be reckless for a period of time. Go hard, and if you succeed, your shields will recharge on thew ay to the next encounter.
Compared to HP points which encourage you to avoid all damage at all costs.
The shield also provides a tight feedback loop for the player. You either die or you win with no long term consequences.
There’s no slow death by attrition from losing just a bit too much health over the course of several encounters.
Halo 1 has a really good balance with this. When you had full HP you could play more risky but if you had low HP you had to be more careful, with the shield having just the right amount of protection. You are given enough to get through any encounter with smart strategy but not so much that you feel unstoppable.
This. If you ever played the classic Doom games (which unlike modern ones had no glory kills or other always-present ways to easily regain HP), you need to do a lot of peeking or long range fighting on higher difficulties to avoid getting worn down. Sure many parts you can be aggressive to fight your way to more health packs, but if you tried playing the whole game like modern Doom you'd likely run out of health packs from taking unnecessary damage especially with the hitscan enemies.
Also, classic Doom's close range options were significantly weaker than in modern Doom. You had the SSG in Doom II, but the chainsaw only worked on certain demons with high stun chance (and was still slow to kill), the regular shotgun was too weak, berserk fists were very risky due to not stunning as well as the chainsaw, and there weren't weapon combos since the switch time was slow. All of these meant you still wanted to avoid staying close for too long unless it's weak enemies you can clean up very quickly.
"Hit point points"
@@perrytran9504 "Back in MY DAY Doom Guy was a GUY."
"Yes grandpa here are your meds gramps."
Without terrible halo killers, Oboeshoesgames wouldn’t have a career
This was a trip down memory lane, thank you for this video!
I think it would be safe to say that, just as how games in the had taken the wrong lessons from Half-Life (Linear, cutscene-to-cutscene gameplay through levels postmarked so heavily that you begin to question where the cutscene ends and the game begins with an uninteresting narrative), games took the wrong lessons from Halo, even Halo itself to a degree - What Bungie had made as this sci-fi epic, detailing the downfall of a vast alien empire with Mankind finally regaining its footing in the galaxy, with complex but engaging level design, a good mix of on-foot and vehicle gameplay with interesting weapons and an engaging narrative, other developers had seen as just another sci-fi shooter with extra steps - Pew pew laser guns and the occasional car. Where Halo's weapon and vehicle sandbox encourages the player to experiment, a _ton_ of other shooters from this era saw that weapon and vehicle sandbox as little more than a means to an end, while also following the same design trend as more typical shooters from the time - Your pistol is the first weapon you receive and is borderline useless, you only get the most powerful weapon at the very tail end of the game and it is _exceedingly_ rare, while vehicles are exclusively for getting from point A to point B. In desperate attempt to _kill_ Halo, sci-fi shooters from this time forgot that there's a difference between taking comfortable inspiration (Halo, after all, had been inspired by and made frequent reference to Bungie's earlier Sci-Fi shooter Marathon) and maliciously trying to overcome (Just look at the number of import/tuner inspired racing games that came out in the wake of Need for Speed Underground and Underground 2).
To be fair to Morrowind movement: The speed and intensity of your jumps (and recovery from them and the amount of fatigue used by running and jumping) is affected by your stats and having a high speed, acrobatics athletics (and if you have any movement buffs like the Boots of Blinding Speed) you can basically bunny hop across Vvardenfell like you just came out of an arena shooter. I mean, I guess the movement doesn't feel *as good* but the raw speed is up there for sure.
the fact that the games engine can even process movements like that and levitation is a miracle already
@@jubbalubby Running Levitation 500 on the original Xbox would probably turn it into an improvised explosive so yeah
You forgot weight.
@@robertnomok9750 Nah, strafejump to Solstheim in full Daedric gear
The end of this video hits the nail on the head with regards to explaining why halo was the way it was gameplay wise. It was so thoughtfully put together, and that's why it mogged all it competition for years. Nice video, based halo enjoyer.
just so you know, the chrome movement you were describing is due to a bug that happens when the framerate goes over 60. it's actual movement is alot better.
yeah tho the jumping and vehicles are still affected by super gravity
The music and story of pulling together like "we got this!" Is what sums up Halo to me. In fact that's what made Reach such a hard hitting story was that the good guys didn't win.
I actually really liked the Area 51 game, really thought the gunplay was tight especially the AR felt great to use. I also liked scanning stuff, uncovering secrets, and reading the lore you unlock.
I agree. Dual wielding was awesome too!
Yeah it was like a fun b movie to me, never saw it as a "Halo killer", don't think anyone did.
I remember when it released, I was 10 at the time, never played it and every kid talked very fondly about it. Even a few years later when I was 13, kids still talked about it with the likes of Halo, TimeSplitters and Turok Evolution
yeah that game was a ton of fun, and the guns felt so nice to use especially the pistol, AR and dual shotguns. Also liked that ricochet gun you'd get from the black ops troopers and being able to ricochet bullets right into the back of enemies heads.
@@gaigestorm8155man, timesplitters, quite arguably one of the most underrated games/series ever made
I think the magic of halo is the fluid sandbox that makes every enemy encounter feel unique. Me and my buddies would sit at the lunch table telling different “war stories” often from the same levels. That and the enemy personality making you feel like a force of nature at times as you go.
You certainly have a take, but I think you're thinking is too Halo-centric. Halo isn't a genre and despite your attempts "Halo Killer" isn't some kind of subgenre. The games listed were a lot of sub par FPS's and trend chasers. The others were saddled with a bad marketing ploy. In the end Halo did a lot to bring the FPS genre out of the sewer it found itself in after the "Arena Shooter" craze swept the industry burying otherwise great franchises in yet another fad rush. If anything those claims of "Halo Killer" were the last spasms of that rush, because the industry did not realize that in the end its not "making another Halo" that is going to make them money. It's making good games.
As for wishing there were games out there that stole or rediscovered the secret sauce of a specific game and started making more of it, I can definitely relate. I am still waiting for "Morrowind 2".
I’ve been thinking about your final question for some time now, but I think I have finally got it. The most important part of the Halo experience is the social aspect. All of my best memories of the game involve playing with a friend. It’s the reason the game was such a big hit in the first place. If I were to make a Halo clone I would go as far as to make three-seat vehicles the meta for big team battle. I might go further and let players piggyback on each other.
The Halo formula would fit amazingly with a Warhammer 40k setting.
If only old Bungie could've had a crack on Warhammer 40k back in the day. Nowadays, I wouldn't trust 343 with warhammer, or any franchise on that matter...
@@markfuckerberg9859 I wouldn't trust GW with it.
@@slayer6498 facts
Uuuhhhh, you know Firewarrior is a 40k game
@@aydengartenlaub OP means a good game.
About the damage type system: it's incredible how it has been copied by RPGs more than FPS. Like Mass Effect for example.
Mass Effect isn't a RPG, it's just a Action RPG.
@@DrundeFPS ...an action RPG is an RPG, lol
@@DrundeFPS You don't logic good, do you?
I had to read that 3 times to take in what you wrote...
By the way, Killzone did not fully fail. There was a clan over on Halo 5 that emulated it to a T and is still out there waiting for their chance to be reborn. They emulated the Helghast.
Killzone 2 was ahead of it’s time
Don't know about the "Halo formula", but every time i try to describe CE, 2, 3 and Reach, the formula that I usually come up with is following:
1. Intelligent and capable enemies, avare of their surroundings
2. diverse and balanced arsenal of vehicles and weapons, available both to the player and said enemies
3. puzzle like level design with multiple layers and sideways, to allow constant change of pace and flow of a combat
4. constant emphasis on and implementation of physics into the gameplay to (once again) diverse the said gameplay
4. Story, paced well enough to allow constant change of the surroundings (forest, beaches, winter, swamp, desert, space ship etc etc) and types of puzzle-levels (corridors, caves, big open spaces and the rest of this stuff)
5. Art design, that allows to easily distinct types of enemies one from the other and locate them on the battlefield
So yeah - basically you need to constantly keep things fresh and add different variables that affect the gameplay.
No wonder we haven't seen new 'Halo Halo" in years...
Plus well written and directed story, plus multiplayer maid for casual fun first, plus the music, plus the atmosphere, created by attention to small details, plus various social interactions and etc etc
P.s. sorry for occasional pain in your eyes, english isn't my first language ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
THANK you, it kills me how everybody TO THIS DAY (including this very video) just runs down the list of two weapons, instant melee, regenerating health, etc. as the things that set Halo apart and made it influential, when they're honestly not very great on their own, and are almost always a negative when other franchises tried to shove them into their games.
Those games needed your list for the other mechanics to be built around, but basically nobody grasped that, which is the true main reason why all those "killers" failed.
EDIT: I did a dumb oopsie and didn't see the whole video before I made this comment, and ShreddedNerd deserves credit for including a lot of these things & some others.
In my defense, though, the video is 40+ minutes long & he doesn't talk about them much until near the end; at the start, he only goes down the basic shallow list, and then hops into quick individual game reviews.
He probably shouldn't have held off for that long, he could've been more direct about how things like this list (and what he included in his epilogue) are the real reason why the "killers" all failed, both in the intro & towards the end.
@@TheRealLittleBIGhead thx, Spartan, but hey - at least we don't debate about iconic pistols anymore
What is CE?
I really couldn't figure it out without "Halo" in front of it lol.
So CE is just Halo (1)?
@@lukasgroot Correct. Combat Evolved was the name of the first Halo game
I loved pretty much all of the Turok games when I was a little kid. The rebooted Turok was my favorite compared to the others, mainly because at the time the graphics were pretty good and the gameplay was awesome. Plus, you know, shooting and killing dinosaurs, and the Wolfpack guys were badass. A neat feature that I've always loved about that game was when you would watch Wolfpack soldiers patrol around an area, the LED lights around where their eyes are on their helmets would change different colors depending on the situation. Blue would be not on alert or in combat, yellow would be caution and seeking out whatever noise something made, and of course their helmet's eyes would turn red during combat.
I think the essence of Halo has to be how it's physics lets you interact with it's environments. Most essentially how the unique movement makes you feel. The perfect blend of speed, momentum, low-gravity jumping, floatiness, and a player body beholden to physical collisions. How versatile it is and how much you can experiment. The other physics in the games world. Projectiles, explosions and other collisions. The perfect art style and deep universe lore surrounding it. And the music to tie it all together. It becomes apparent its hard to even boil halo down to a simple element unless you're talking just about gameplay, because it's such a masterpiece that works so well iyou dont even notice it, like oxygen or water: it's just taken for granted.
Ever notice how the vehicles in infinite have no weight to them? Physics have been getting worse and worse over the years, especially with the garbage ragdoll
@@NYG5 Yes! Infinite vehicles just slide all over the place. 343 went out of their way to remove fun physics by patching grapple hook and other glitches from campaign. I hate them sm
"The enemies seem to die easily and don't have shields."
*Um sir, you are fighting the imperial guard. That's like their whole point lmao."
Excellent vid. I would add as well the enemies were designed to stand out from the backgrounds. The world may have been earthy and neutral colours, but the enemies were bright almost fluorescent reds, greens, yellows and blues, whereas in Killzone you’re fighting grey enemies on a grey map, or Resistance it’s brown enemies in a brown world.
Killzone 2 and 3 were incredible games
No they’re not.
@@deriznohappehquite Yes they are. Killzone 2 got a metacritic score of 91. Go be a loser elsewhere.
3 was pretty bad
Not really.
As Killzone 2 enjoyer, no, not really
Hopefully Bungie reboots it
These FoVs is killing my eyes
idk who made 343i, but that was an extremely effective Halo killer
On the subject of Halo as "imperialist propaganda" that was brought up during the Haze segment: I think it was BDobbinsFTW who compared the story thematically to Well's War of the Worlds with Britain and the UNSC being both imperialist powers who get their ironic comeuppance from the more advanced alien imperialists.
Western Imperialism is good and western imperialist propaganda is good.
I know it isn't an FPS, but the peeling and dismemberment combo in the Dead Space Remake is not just aesthetic- some weapons peel flesh better, while others break bone better. Learning to use the two is really fun and it is quite deep. A different take on a shield system...great vid.
Did the flesh act as a sort of shield? I didn’t pay too much attention to it when I played, but if peeling the flesh off a necromorph meant it was easier to dismember, that would be a really cool idea. It would also explain the purpose of the force gun.
@@Ckoz2829 yup, absolutely. Peeling the flesh off makes dismember faster. So certain weapon pairings are OP.
Seeing the Resistance game makes me miss playing Resistance 2. The PVP and COOP was so much fun and the game also had a ingame server-browser. So me and my friends used to make a Sniper/Magnum only server on the San Francisco map.
Honestly what makes Halo "Halo" to me is the atmosphere. The mystery in Halo was absolute perfection. It never felt like the mysteries in Halo were just nothing burgers that were there to drive the story. The interactions between the 4 factions was great too. The alliances and betrayals in Halo's story was also amazing. Who would have ever thought that you'd fight side by side with The Flood in Halo 3? The betrayal was obvious, but it was so unique and awesome.
- "Id Software was fizzling out"
- Shows Quake 3 and Doom 3
That's less fizzle ,more oil fire.
Nova 2 was stupid hard
Well said brother...very well said 🧐👏
Wish i could still download that game. Was the only mobile game i actually put time into
Sounds kinda fun
Turok 2008 was amazing it's a shame that part 2 cancelled, as a matter of fact me and all my friends still play Turok 2008 on the Xbox 360 every Saturday and we upload most of our videos...... almost to 300 now lol
About an indie Halo inspired thing, this might be a pull, but a game called ''Iji'' actually reminds me a lot of Halo, it pulls from a lot of things, and its a 2D game, but there's even like, factions, in-fighting and that good 'ol surprise new enemy, and, honestly? One of the best free games I've ever played in my life and a game i'd yeet my money if the dev suddenly remastered it and put it on steam.
But yeah, awesome video, that said, you missed ''Darkwatch'' (Not really a ''Halo Killer'' more like a Halo-Like that's proud to be inspired by Halo so it might not belong here anyway) which is honestly the best Halo you can get on the PS2 and a game that i'd also yeet any amount of money if it got a remaster or somethin'.
I have been wanting to make a game for ages, and Halo was always my favorite. Recently started learning ue5 to fulfill that dream, even if it ends up bad. Love the information in the video regardless.
Let's collab my friend, no judgment on skill level or experience
It better be a fuckin masterpiece. Keep it up
@@swaggyd.alford5126 Yes sir, Swaggy, sir! :D
Remember: "If at first you fail, try, try again".
My only advice is...don't try to make something everyone will like. Try to make something that certain people will love.
Halo was great because the developers worried more about what felt good to them than about what every other game was doing.
Haze 2: Halo's Done For Now
More like Haze 343...
haze tries to make badass characters but ends up making characters that look mentally deranged
This was excellent, the best video I've seen on understanding halo.
And I'm really glad you called out Jaime Greisman for developing the fundamentals of the gameplay and Josh Holmes for ruining it.
41:47 It's probably already been pointed out, but A* (pronounced a star) is a pathfinding algorithm (which most games probably use, at least under the hood of whatever middleware the engine uses). FEAR used GOAP (goal oriented action planner) for its AI. Finite State Machines are also a pretty good choice but more limited. They're what the new DOOM games use.
I would disagree that Chrome was a Halo clone. Dunno about Poland, but in Russia console gaming faded into the background after gen 3/4 cause PCs became affordable and could do much more than just play games, also pirating games for them was a no-brainer and didn't require any hardware modifications. So games like Halo were largely unknown, instead everyone was trying to make an "Unreal Tournament killer" or "Doom 3 killer".
And Chrome looks like a regular tactical FPS in a sci-fi setting.
Section 8 could be considered a "halo killer", another mid to late 00s scifi space shooter with vehicle combat
I have fond memories, but I don't know how well it holds up
Section 8 was awesome but I wouldn’t call it a “Halo killer”. An inspiration maybe but not every sci if shooters were trying to kill Halo.
@@FrostbiteDigital Yeah it's definitely more of an "inspired by Halo" type of game, but as a kid I played it specifically because it looked "like Halo"
I have many fond memories of Section 8 and it's sequel. Such a fun and unique game, the drop-in respawn while dodging flak, and the super sprint was awesome.
Section 8 was the housing I lived in at the age 21.
36:20 So the recharging shields are good because it doen't tie down the player to the developer's wishes but the two weapon system is good because it allows the devs more influence in the game?
6:08 as a tau player for the tabletop game, that is very frustrating because back in 6th and 7th editions, Tau were the only faction to have “real” power armor (as in their battlesuits had so many layered rules and abilities that the space marines were just tougher guys with a better save and who were invulnerable to moral tests, crisis suits could shoot multiple weapons, ignore night fight conditions, not be affected by blind weapons, deploy anywhere on the table, were significantly tougher more durable and stronger than baseline tau where marines were +1 to a guardsman)
A Firewarrior is kind of a terrible experience for a “super soldier” character. They are basic guys (but aliens) with awesome technology.
40k should have a guard centric game that the campaign would basically be like the older Call of duty games where you hop between characters and regiments with lore accurate enemies and I’d want at least one level where you are PDF against chaos raiders and a Chaos marine is like some final boss type shit, halfway between the beserker encounter in Gears of War 1.
*in monotone voice*
"Halo 3 is a jaw dropping, xbox classic, mouth watering, atmospheric, spine tingling, bone chilling, slow burning character driven, genre defining gem that when playing its multiplayer maps alone will give you this sense of dread, unlike god of war... in halo 3 you will be met with this feeling of unease as if this map is supposed to have people but it doesnt"
Well this idiot just said killzone 2 and 3 are like call of duty and that's not even slightly true. Did clearly doesn't know many actual facts about shooters other than "halo good, everything else bad."
@@johndodo2062 uhhh... what?
Gem
No Randy, Gearbox will never touch Halo again.
Its aight lol
The basics of Halo CE to me are 1. Interesting environments. Vast yet finite. Great use of lighting. Neat architecture. Snow and giant evergreen trees. 2. Great controls, weapons, and enemy/marine AI. It is easy to pick up and play for the uninitiated, but also has a decent depth of learning curve. 3. Incredible sound design, from player voices to sfx to the music. Especially the music. Great sounds are KEY to any video game or movie imo, psychology plays a big part there. 4. The story and cutscenes make you feel small, put you on the run and push you to make drastic decisions, but the game play does nothing but make you feel invincible. I mean, look how far you can throw that grenade. The Marines love you whenever you show up. Oh your fav game has a rocket launcher? This one has a DOUBLE BARREL rocket launcher. Soon you will use it as a pillow after "The Library"... 5. This one is just... Love. Lol idk man I really think the guys at Bungie loved their job when they were making the first Halo game, and that passion was able to seep through at least 3 games... I also get that feeling from Perfect Dark (ironically bc a bunch of ppl were leaving Rareware to start Free Radical; more games for us) but from what I understand there were very few meetings with the suits regarding deadlines for features or calling the shots on how to make the most money. The programmers and devs just got to do whatever they thought was cool and what they could make work. Unfortunately nowadays it seems like you've got to "kill" someone or something else to get ahead, I feel like this is what has led to the absolute state of the modern game industry. Some kids have fun building sand castles, some have fun kicking everyone else's down. May the era of sand castles return to us.
Great comment
Old Bungie made games for nerds, by nerds. Now it's all business executives and meeting sales quota and preorder early access shit wtf happened to gaming?
honestly i feel the more impressive thing about star wars commandos is less the games alright quality, and more that commando clones stuck around in star wars cannon. they even survived the disney purge.
Honestly, this is why I love Helldivers 2... it legit is the halo successor that we all needed
15:34 "these games were halo by people who hated halo" oh shit 343 were making games longer than I thought.
I think crysis was the last time I realized my pc was woefully underpowered for what I was trying to play. I don’t think the pc gamers have seen a power jump like that since. I was intrigued enough that I powered through the terrible performance.
The biggest irony of this all is how we have a sci-fi FPS vacuum. With every shooter being a hero shooter or battle royale these days, it's really surprising that no one's stepped up to fill in the empty slot Halo left behind. If Sony wanted a Halo killer, now is the best and potentially only chance they have, before someone else does it first
Sony can't. They've been taken over by their California branch who care more about narratives than gameplay
Timesplitters II even says 'move over halo' on the back cover
Halo also had its iconic title screen music. Still one of the best to date.
I have the same issue as you with fighting human enemies, I call it "Blokes with guns" syndrome, because I have seen so many games have promising settings, enemy types and such and they waste SO much of their running time fighting generic boring hitscan dudes while the more interesting non-human foes get royally shafted. It's a hot take but I also felt this issue extended to the Half-Life games, so much of their running time in combat is fighting hitscan dudes and HL2 even removed a ton of alien enemies, even if it's still a great game. FEAR on the other hand is done to perfection thanks to incorporating those Halo sandbox elements so well into the enemy AI, level design and player options.
As for Halo style indie shooters, I personally recommend ADACA if you don't mind a dash of Half-Life and STALKER added into the mix. Been playing a bunch of that lately and it's good fun.
Half-Life 2 has a poorly designed gameplay loop, IMO. It rode the coattails of Half-Life 1.
Searching the internet, reading Half-Life 2 apologia is interesting:
“HL2 is widely praised for its minimal but imaginative storytelling and its atmosphere. People have praised the developers' attention to detail. The things that make HL2 great are quite subtle and not everybody picks up on that. It’s the way alien technology is inserted the landscape, the use of color, the sounds, the moments of quiet offer a chance to reflect on what happened before.”
I think Half-Life 2 appeals to would-be fans of the walking simulator genre.
So with the republic commando weapon system was like that because the dc-17m was made to be super versatile and the limiting ai of 2005 they went that way because each character was supposed to use a different version of the dc-17m with sev using the sniper variant scorch was supposed to use the grenade launcher and I believe fixer was supposed to use the pistol and you playing as boss would use the default dc-17m
How do you make a warhammer game and have little too no enemy variety. Orks, the imperium, necrons, Eldar, chaos, tau, tyranids, so many different things too fight, and that's just some of the major factions not even including the sub factions or actual units.
this video has re awakened a dream of mine , i would never try to make a game like halo , but someday i hope i could create something as fun and unique as halo and maybe borrow some of its key aspects , there is so much i could say about this masterpiece , if im honest with myself almost no other shooter has been as enjoyable as halo
I googled articles about halo killers and played them none play like halo
Well there is one game that's like that which is resistance fall of man tbh the series is a good 7 or 8/10
Halo 3 community was the greatest time of my life as a gamer ,now i look back with nostalgia and sadness but happy i was a part of it
"Halo 4 copied COD's loadout system"
Reach adding loadouts to multiplayer:
Unreal genuinely feels incredible to play even today, hell I would say it feels more fun. Albeit it's janky. Doom 2 feels incredible to play, smooth, seamless, and layered combat as different enemies switch up the pace and tactics. As good as doom eternal is it feels like a massive upgrade of quake. I would say new doom shows how much potential still remains even with a small part of the boomer shooter pool of gaming experiences.
Halo reminded me of unreal, the complex enemies, the sci-fi aesthetic, the cramped beginning followed by the silent reveal of the massive landscape. Unreal did this when exiting the prison ship out into na-pali, halo nailed it when you got out of the pillar of autumn and out to the landscape of the legendary halo.
Halo doesn't focus hard on projectile dodging but more focused on enemy synergy and the sandbox, reminding me of the way doom did it. That is what made halo soo cool to me, it's got a doom like weapon sandbox but has unreal style enemies. The potential these titles have is nuts but i don't think such legendary stuff will come any time soon.
Great video @ShreddedNerd, in my opinion the most simplest way to describe Halo is that it is a sandbox party shooter, with a major emphasizes on player movement that fits perfectly with its level design, unique weapons and equipment that can drastically change the way fights can take place in any fight, and finally having a unique and dynamic enemy AI that can challenge the player and make every fight different from the last. By the way I am not sure if you know this or not but there is a mod under development for Halo Reach called Halo Reach Evolved by the youtuber The Vengeful 'Vadam. It does a great job of addressing Halo Reach's gameplay problems and its being developed by a guy who seems to really understand old Bungies design mythology if that makes sense. Once it rerelease again using the new mod tools that 343 released I plan for it to be my final send of from the series. You should check out Vadam videos on it and even talk to him if you have the chance :)
Have you ever played Marathon or Myth? I think Halo is interesting to look at through the lens of Bungie’s previous games.
@@deriznohappehquite I have played Marathon but not Myth and yeah you can definitely tell that the Marathon series is a direct ancestor to Halo especially with how many themes and ideas they both share. In both gameplay and story.
@@flydeath1841 I think Myth is also pretty interesting to look at. It has a similar gameplay flow and level design style to Halo, in a way, despite being an RTS.
Like it kind of has the “golden triangle” of grenades, melee, and guns (well, bows instead of guns) and also has that kind of open “king of the hill” level and encounter design.
I found a copy of it on an abandonware website. Also, Myth: The Fallen Lords has a better story than Myth 2: Soulblighter, and they both play very similarly, so I prefer the first one.
@@deriznohappehquite gotcha I will give it a try then :)
3:03 "Halo was a bit of a sleeper hit" *smacks snoozing grunt*
cheeky bastard dont think i didnt notice
As a Warhammer 40k fan, it honestly pisses me off that Firewarrior sucks as bad as it does. The setting is ripe for having a wide variety of enemy types and weapons what with all its weird alien races and daemons, and there could be vehicle sections, given how many vehicle types exist in the setting (especially for Tau). The more intelligent races like the Imperium, Chaos Marines and Eldar would be good test cases for advanced AI (even the dumb races like Orks and Tyranids could at least have interesting AI behaviors that give them lots of personality). Hell, even the fantastical nature of the setting means levels with lots of verticality would be a no brainer.
Fire Warrior being ass is just the price we pay for GW giving away their IP to basically anybody. However, that also means that 40k has plenty of games with solid gameplay loops under its belt, no point in lamenting over Fire Warrior since new 40k games come out all the damn time so there's always something new to look forward to.
As a long time Halo fan since 2002 , I have literally grown up with the series . But when I first played Killzone 2 back in 2010 I was really blown away by the intense setting , graphics , sound and atmosphere as a whole . From that moment I knew that Halo had found it’s match
Yeah but unfortunately the sequels after it struggled in some areas even after fans gave feedback on what to do. Seems like Killzone a Mercenary was the last good one and that was on a handheld called PS Vita which did well but the console itself unfortunately didn’t sell enough so any other future games planned were canceled.
I'm surprised that you never mentioned the amazing soundtracks the bungie halos had. It's memorable and everyone knows it. You also can't recreate it
One game that got it right I think was Murder Miners. Not only did they get really close to Halo’s mechanics, but they then combined that with Minecraft. Can’t wait for Murder Miners X. Maybe it could lead the Indie Halo movement mentioned in the video.
Believe
AI gets overlooked constantly. Its a huge background issue in Destiny 2 right now. Its an issue in most games. Players want harder games, but then complain that all the challenge comes from higher enemy damage and health. then people say that they're just complaining for fun or some other dismissive BS. The reality is that most players want a challenge that can only come from better AI. High HP and damage leads to long, boring fights, frustrating resets, and cheese strats. AI leads to skillful play, awareness, and tense situations. thats what players want.
But Ai is hard to develop, abd publishers would rather spend money on new monetization strats than new AI.
Still, the legendary campaigns are a huge step in the right direction and really show off the potential for builds. If that was the baseline difficulty for Destiny 2 (and it had even higher difficulties with changed mechanics and encounters), I would love it.
@@insertsomememereferenceher8483 absolutely. Bungie made some serious strides in Witchqueen. the fact that they didnt follow it up in Lightfall is concerning though. I hope they can recover, and that the Final Shape and the unannounced expansion are up to WQ standards at the very least.
The Conduit is pretty good. I remember actually playing the online for it back in the day, and it was actually a lot of fun. They actually made a sequel to it as well that I heard is even better than the first one, so I'll have to give that a shot at some point.
You ever hear, the tragedy of darth john halo the wise?..he was very wise in the ways on the first person shooter, not even those who sort to mimic him, could stop him....ironic, the only thing that killed John halo, was himself.
Honestly some of the comparisons just feels really forced, like Killzone, Resistance or Crysis, I don't really consider "alien invasions and FPS" to be an Halo clone. But overall I agree with the message, it's really hard to have good "game killer" games because it's just impossible to recreate the feeling of the games they are trying to beat.
They aren’t “Halo clones” because there was never a Halo clone sub genre.
What they have in common was that they were touted as “Halo killers” and they drew some inspiration from Halo.
@@deriznohappehquite Crysis wasnt inspired by halo though
@@markss367 Crysis had regenerating health, a limited weapon inventory with enemies dropping weapons, vehicles that you can enter and exit on the map, and a separate button for melee.
These are all mechanics popularized by Halo.
@@deriznohappehquite crysis doesnt have a 2 weapon limit you can use 2 rifles + sidearm + heavy weapons
In addition weapons can be customised on the fly wich halo doesnt have
Nor do vehicles play the same because c1 had way bigger maps
Crysis was more insipred by deus ex as the devs have said halo and crysis have superficial similarity.
@@deriznohappehquite Having similar mechanics doesn't mean anything lol. With that reasoning Halo should have been a Quake clone because it used some mechanics popularised by AFPS