Vision3 500t v Cinestill 800t - SHOT FOR SHOT comparison! feat.
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- Finally! My 500t vs 800t comparison video is up! I have been very curious about how the raw kodak vision3 fares against cinestill 800t, looking at "identical" shots. There are some clear differences between the two, despite them being the same. I shot all of these at recommend box speed, using automatic metering from my automatic Canon film SLR cameras. So everything should be properly exposed (no push or pulling). These are all 35mm film format as well.
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#cinestill800t #vision3500t #35mmfilm - Věda a technologie
I like much more 500T than Cinestill. It's a more clean and colorful look but Cinestill have this kind of "aura" of mystery. I think both have a great look but transmit different feeling.
yea i agree. the 800t does have a bit of a special mystery to it. i typically like it
Very surprised that the 500T retained way more shadow detail! Those phone box shots were beaut. I prefer the flatter higher dynamic range of 500T if I had to choose between the two. Great info as well. Was a ton of fun hanging out with you and Leo. Looking forward to the next one.
yea the flatter images look like great blank canvases. im curious if i shot the 800t at 500, if i'd get a flatter image.
there will be more london hangouts! gotta get one on the books before we get put on lockdown haha
I wonder whether they'd have looked more similar in terms of shadow detail if Cinestill was shot at 500 ISO.. perhaps a future video? :)
photos on film Yeah, that was my impression too; that 800T looks more like E.I. 600 or 650...
yup! great point. i added it to the list!
yea, i think the extra half or full stop would make a massive difference. but the i bet the cross processing will still hold it back a bit
If I remember correctly, it actually says on the Cinestill box in small print to treat it like it's ISO 500 when shooting in low-light
@@ribsy If halation gets worse with longer exposure I'd expect to see loads more of that too
always wanted to see a comparison of these side by side. appreciate this 👍👍
Yup! Thought it’d be helpful 😀
Thanks for comparison man, you saved my time🤙
no prob! glad it was useful
This has beed an big question for me for so long. Thank you for comparing them side by side.
Great! Glad it was useful 😃
Really enjoyed your video. Just ordered some 500t, can’t wait
Sweet - enjoy!
Great comparison man. I’ve never tried 500t but I’m for sure gonna try out a few rolls after watching this.
its def worth trying if you can process it with ecn2 😊
This is the best comparison video i saw
thanks! im glad it was useful
Hanging out with your mates and familiar faces (Zain Riza) next to you! Hahaha! Top Left of the screen would be my guess 500T just because of the non hazing of light and 800T to my right looking at the car lights that give off more of a neon hazzy punch to the look and more pushy color tone in the shadows and highlights! This is me telling you my thoughts on it before the big reveal! Watching the remainder of the video... I would buy the 500T for everyday and night photoshoot I would choose for future shoots! Great job man!
thanks for commenting before the video conclusion 😊 and yes, you were right. can't go wrong with 500t if you have the chems
This was a very interesting and informative video.
Glad it was useful!
Congratulations on the great video. I wonder if you could do an additional video that presents your exposure/metering technique? Cheers from Canada.
hey! yea perhaps. i typically shoots with automatic SLRs so they meter for me 😅
The halation gave 800T away so fast, lol. But also 500T’s flatter look,designed to be fairly neutral for grading. But who woulda thought contrast would be so different. Wondering-do you get the impression 800T should be rated at E.I. 600 or 650?
correct! its def an easy quiz haha. and yes, i think 800t could benefit from being rated at 500 or so.
The Cinestill seems to have a green cast on many of the photos (maybe it can be corrected out or is a scanning issue). The 500T had more natural colours to my eye and adding some contrast where appropriate would have made the 500T easily better than the Cinestill. It would be interesting to see what happens if you shoot the Cinestill at 500 - would it have similar contrast to the 500T? Also comparing both processed C41 or ecn2.
yea there are definitely other comparisons to be made. next time!
I suspect that might have something to do with Cinestill 800T being based off of Kodak Vision 800T, if I’m not mistaken. Even if it was well preserved it’s still over two generations old, at least a good decade or so.
It’s never going to look as good as V3 500T, and then using it in a manner it was never meant to be used is just going to amplify any flaws it may have.
Another great video. Enjoying these! C-41 is a higher contrast process than ECN-2 so by both shooting it at a lower rating and then developing it in ECN-2, you lower the contrast in two ways vs Cinestill 800t. If you shot both at EI800 and in C-41 my guess is the 500T would be much closer to the 800T. However removing the remjet means the Cinestill gets a bit more reflected light and may perform something like 1/3 stop better for that reason.
Yea! Plan to experiment more with 800t and ecn2
500T is on the left :-) Gonna watch the rest of the vid now :-) One of there reasons that the 500T has better shadow content is because by shooting at iso 500 you've given the film more light than the Cinestill of which you shot at 800.
yup correct! i didn't mention that 😅
I actually prefer the 500T print. It's so nice. The contrast between cold and warm tones is great. Also they don't seems to be exposed the same. Look at the first picture at the lighted menus on the wall. Would love to see 500T vs 800T in C-41 scanned on the same scanner.
Thank you for doing this. :)
interesting. i don't prefer the 800 for this particular print. however, in general, i do really like the 800t for printing. with the right scenes, it works magic!
the red halos are a dead giveaway. great colours from both, but I think I did prefer the 250D
haha of course! wasn't a hard question
Nice comparison. The difference in dynamic range is massive! I wonder how the highlights would hold up if you overexposed Cinestil to bring back the shadow detail 🤔
yup! i wonder as well haha. negative film generally holds highlights well, so i bet they will be just fine
What this means to me is to shoot my Cinestill at 500 ISO for better exposure.
i think so! it will prob perform better at 500, although you will lose some speed
Cool experiment. I've never shot either of those films, however, based on your results I would be inclined to shoot the 500T if only for the shadow detail.
By the way, nice looking Bronica!
yea! maybe shooting the 800t at 500 would have difference results. next time! and yes, that bronica is a beauty! i love it
Lovvee the 800t photos! Haha people always catch me mid talk 😂
LOL my bad! ill catch you proper next time 😂
I love Vision3 processed in ECN2. Everytime I do it, which is rare, amazing just comes out of the developing tank. The problem I have with it is the extra complexity of processing (which isn't that big a deal if I stack up a buncha film and do it in batches); and the concern for archival stability. I haven't been able to find clear explanations about how stable movie films in ECN2 are compared to purpose-made C41 films. That's SUPER important for me since, sure, scanning is fine but part of the reason I like analog is that I have physical artifacts. Both will degrade more than black and white film I'd expect, just curious how much Vision3 might over, say, Portra.
That's really been the main reason why I haven't just bought a 100' spool of Vision 3 and went crazy shooting with it.
great point! it is def a hassle. although the remjet isn't hard to remove, i hate the added steps, especially at the end of processing. its worth it, but i agree that it's more convenient if you have many vision3 rolls to develop at once.
curious about the archival element too. never considered it
Have you ever tried processing Cinestill in ECN2?
i haven't!! and its a great idea - that is coming soon 😊
Easy subscribe. Great Video
Awesome, thanks for the support 😃
Wonderful urban shots, vision looked so good on those portraits.
Gotta admit I agree with you on one thing - I wish there was an easy way to add contrast when printing.
thanks! yea i was impressed by the vision3
haha yes! looks like that has to be done prior to printing 😅
I'm not a big Cinestill fan, but I really like it here. It was nice to see it compared to another, similar film stock. You may have changed my mind.
yea i think there is a time and place for it. i def like but won't shoot it tons cuz of the price thanks for watching 😊
Hi Ribs, thanks so much for the this and your other videos. I’ve recently shot and processed my first two rolls of Vision 3 250D (bought a 100’ in bulk from FFP). I processed in QWD’s ECN2 and I’m still waiting to scan it. Your video raises a lot of interesting questions for me. How did you meter the films? Because the 800T to me looks like it’s identical to shooting the 500T pushed 2/3rds of a stop and scanned appropriately. I’m also curious about QWD’s ECN2 kit, as they call for acetic acid (white vinegar) but the actual ECN2 process calls for sulphuric acid, and reading around on various film forums (a dangerous business!), this difference may be significant. I’m tempted to grab two rolls each of the CineStill and Vision3, take identical test shots on all four, metered and ISO 500, and then process one set of each in C41 and QWD’s quasi-ECN2. Or I could try to sucker you into doing that test… But either way, I’m with you in figuring out how to make best use of these films. (Aside from the chemistry issue, I’m concerned about relying on QWD if only because if I want to build a consistent body of work for a project, I can’t depend on having consistent, long-term access to their kit.)
Hey! So in short i think exposing 800t at 500 would prob make up most of the difference. Not sure about the chemistry aspect though. There are lots of ecn2 kits floating around nowadays, so I think you should be ok. I don’t think the two films will ever be identical, especially because of the different processing choices.
The one on the right looks like there is more of a vignette from the camera lens.
i think that's more contrast due to processing and exposing at 800. this lens shouldn't cause much vignetting as it is a modern lens.
@@ribsy Even modern lenses vignette. I did notice more contrast but like I said the edges look like a vignette.
I thought I identified which film was which from the first comparison, but I did suffer some angst that I might be wrong when the Cinestill images were consistently underexposed, which I had not expected. The 500T colors are more clean and do not have the nasty green shift which the 800T shows in its mid-tone and darked areas. The Cinestill shows a larger and more clearly visible grain pattern in the shadows, probably the results of under exposure. In the later images, the flare bloom from removal of the remjet in the 800T was fairly apparent. I expected the Cinestill to look "faster" based on additional exposure tied to flare, but is does not appear so. Great video task - well done! Propose new comparison: Portra 800 v. Cinestill 800T. (I don't find a need for 800 speed film generally, but it would be nice info to have in the event.)
thanks for watching 😊. totally agree that the underexposure of 800t prob made a big difference. def increases contrast. and yes, i am lining up a cinestill v portra 800. i think that is more realistic and accessible for most.
The tell-tale sign comes from on-screen light sources: more halation + red shift from the remjet removal
correct
OMG ZAIN
haha yes that's him!
I just put up my video with Cinestill at 500 iso. For me it's the perfect exposure, not too dark or light. I love the halation. Makes everything look sci-fi!
good point! yea i think shot at 500 would be good. ill check out your video 😊
I'm assuming the right is the Cinestill because of the halation on the lights and the yellow cast it gives a lot of the shots. Seems like at 800 it underexposes a bit compared to the 500t , wonder what the results would look like metered at 640. Great locations to highlight what each can do.
correct! and yea totally, seems like 800 exposure makes a meaningful difference
Great video, although I wish you had shot both at either 500 or better yet 800 instead of the 300 iso difference. I'd like to see if the removal of the remjet on the CineStill affects the image in any way other than the halation effect when compared to 500t when both are shot at 800 iso and developed with the same formula. Ive been speaking to the owner of QWD laboratories where you bought your 500t and apparently it would be very easy to create your own "cinestill" style vision3 film without remjet by processing the unexposed film through the pre-bath and drying before bulk loading into your canisters. I personally haven't tried this yet but when i get my 400ft roll of 500t I plan to experiment as this could be a very cost-effective method of getting the look.
thanks. yea, there are many ways to cut it, in terms of comparing. the DIY method sounds time consuming and difficult 😅
even though the other one darker...its better for horror films etc. depends the style your going for. if a poster then chose the more brighter one. but if something dark etc...then go for the darker one.
Yea agreed! I think the additional contrast lends itself well to certain scenes and def for printing too!
For me, mostly the 500T, as I like lighter, less contrasts colours, but there’s some where the 800T won too - guess it’ll be fun to try both :)
yea! i can appreciate the less contrast for sure
Nice comparison man, just subscribed to your channel! Did you use tripod when shooting?
thanks! i don't think so actually -- streets were fairly bright
wow, this was really awesome. I personally love the Vision3 500t so much!! It looks so beautiful IMO can't wait to try it. Have you tried pushing it?
I haven’t tried pushing it yet tho. But I’m sure it would do just fine
@@ribsy I'd just love to get some more grain out of it. Man, your videos are awesome. How are you scanning the 500t? btw, have you seen silbersalz35.com? They look amazing and affordable but unfortunately I'm in the US and that wait time would kill me haha
I could call it, but I've shot a lot of both. I probably prefer 500T overall, but the Cinestill I find very appealing in certain situations. 800T shines in heavy shade in daytime, along with the classic night scenes people love it for. 500T is much more useful in general situations, and when you need less grain and a lot more shadow detail. It's really fascinating what remjet contributes to the images overall.
yea! 800 exposure seems more versatile but the shorter exposure time does seem to make a difference, along with everything else. for cross processing, i think its great. however, i can't help but like the "cleaner" exposure of the 500t
hi. great vid! how did you process the 500t? did you process it in c41? and what type of paper/gloss etc. did you use to print? and what camera did you use with what lens? thanks
hey - no the 500t was processed in ecn2. paper is fuji crystal archive luster. lens was canon 50mm 1.8
On my way to pick up 500T now! I tried Cinestill 800T and thought it looked muddy! How did you rate your 500t? At 500 or 800?
Ok, I think you answered my question, but just to be sure; You shot the 500T at ASA 500, and the Cinestill at 800? I may have to try the Cinestill and shoot it at 500 to see if it gives more shadow detail.
correct! i shot each at the recommended speed 😊
Thanks for the video. I wanted to know if you have any experience doing exposures longer than 1 second with this film?
Nope - I don’t. But I’m sure they have reciprocity charts out there
for shure right side is cinestill, the halations, that i love, delivered
nice one. i guess it was too easy ... haha 😅
I got a cinestill 800T this Thur fresh stock 2020 and would like to know how it performs at night
its great for night. def can't go wrong. for really dark scenes, try rating it at 500.
Great video! Thanks for sharing. I think the darker shadows happen beacuse we are actually underexposing Cinestill (from 500 to 800) I know that Cinestill claims that the lack of remjet increases the film sensitivy, but I belive it's a marketing thing so people feel more comfortable shooting it at night. Try using Cinestill at 500 and you'll see what I mean ;) Also, I would love a video of Kodak Vision 500T shot during the day with and without a warming filter and developed with ECN2; it would be nice to see how the colors react and if it possible to "fix it" in post 🙏🙏🙏
yea i am very curious about shooting 800t at 500. that should def make a difference, but i am curious how big.
Isn't it the C41 process that makes the film gain speed ? Compared to ECN-2.
I’m surprised that exposure was not mentioned as that is the key difference here
Yea
What's going to be interesting here is taking that CS800T and processing it in their new CS2 kit.
yea! i have a video coming soon 😊
Nice photos!
Did u shoot V3 500T at 400? 800? ECN-2?
Cheers from Chile!
thanks for watching! i shot 500t at 500 and 800t at 800. kept it 'normal' for my first try 😂
I much prefer the Vision3. When I started shooting film I was really excited to try out CineStill, but after using it and seeing it a bit more I like it less and less. The halation, issues from the remjet removal and some of the colorcast make it imo a bit of a gimmicky film.
I've always been a big fan on movies and cinematography and that was kinda the reason for all the CineStill excitement at first, but after the fact I was left a bit disappointed. Obviously there's more to it than the film stock, but the halation alone ruins it for me now.
Maybe I'm a bit too harsh on it and everyone has their own taste, but I don't see myself using it anymore.
hey! its def a taste thing. totally understand your POV. i typically really like the 800t output, although the halation doesn't appeal to me.
I really dont like the skin tones of cinestill 800t, they all have a slightly weird and greenish tint
interesting. ive heard this before. hasn't bothered me too much
I think another factor of why Cinestill has darker shadows is that the film is actually a 500 speed film not 800, Cinestill markets the film as 800 because if the highlights are slightly blown when shooting at 500 they'll become too red. I think when shooting Cinestill at 500 it will have similar shadow details to Kodaks Vision3 500t.
yup! correct -- i totally neglected to mention that. the 800 exposure seems to have a real impact on the final product
Great video! Do you have a lightroom preset for 500T at all?
Nope I don’t. Didn’t edit the images much in LR
My brothers!
Film, food, hang outs.
I'm always leaning towards the photos on the right :)
800T ftw.
Leo touching the phone 😂😂 smart man!
yes! we need some Joan out here. i'll prob be back in NYC in december so save me a hang or two 😊
@@ribsy save ya a slice from joe's
Hm, looks like the clearest distinction between the 2 is simply exposure. The reason why you have more detail in the shadows of 500T and brighter highlights is that it’s exposed properly, the 800T has the contrast simply because the shadows are being crushed in under exposure, that’s also the reason why the colors are more “punchy” since all the same colors are just darker than the highlights in the 500T.
Was this something with your cameras? Or now I wonder if this is intentional from Cinestill, because technically 800 iso is under exposing the film, but I believe their rationalization is that once the remjet is removed the film becomes more sensitive... but either way, since you’re developing in C41, besides the halation I believe these 2 rolls could’ve been made pretty much identical if exposures where matched
yea there is def an exposure difference. its good know what effect that has so you can pick and choose how you shoot it
Kodak Vision3 500T stock wins for me. That thing is a beauty
yea it is! i'd love to shoot a whole roll in a 35mm movie camera. if only ... 😅
@@ribsy facts 😂
What if you shoot the Vision3, wash out the remjet before processing and then develop it in C-41?
yea, thats fully possible. it just a matter of whether you want to process with c41 or ecn2 chems. different reasons for each
@@ribsy Yeah but how different would it look from Cinestill? You probably wouldn't get the halation you get with cinestill, but would the colors and exposure look the same?
Oh y’all free free over there in the UK. No masks or nothing. Dope comparison
LOLOL 😅 the government doesn't think we can spread coronavirus while eating ... apparently
Hate to point out the obvious, but: since they are the same stock, they also share the same Base ISO. Only difference is that CineStill labels it as a 800T-Film, but in reality it's still ISO 500. As a result, you underexpose your film by 2/3 of a stop. That's what causes higher contrast, less shadow details and a slightly different (greenish) color cast.
Yes, you pointed out the obvious about 2 years after the video was posted 😅
@@ribsy People still watch the video and I didn’t find any comment about this, so I think it’s still relevant.
I'll choose 500T, but if i want get the red halation aesthetic will choose cinestill 800T
make sense!
Did you shoot the 800T at 800iso or 500?
i shot the 800t at 800. i follow instructions 😂 but i think this also a major factor that i prob shoulda discussed
Doing Film Things haha just curious! I was just thinking about the the effect it might have with opening up the shadows a little more if shot at 500. Maybe a future test/video idea 🤔
Did you use ECN-2 to develop the Vision3 ?
yup i did! i don't like how it comes out cross processed
@@ribsy nice!!
What shutter speed range where you shooting at for most of these shots?
I have no idea
You could buy 500t for cheap, remove the remjet in a Paterson tank and then put it back in an empty film canister if you like the cinestil look. Although I much prefer the 500t look
That sounds like an arduous task since you have to let the film dry somehow …
@@ribsy that is an issue, you can't just hang it in a darkroom... I suppose trying to dry it in a tank could work if load the film on the upper real... You'd have to think of a way to get some airflow in the tank... If I ever get to home developing ecn2 I'll give it a try :)
So where are you or can I buy fresh 500t?
hey - check ebay. lots of sellers selling hand rolled 35mm rolls. just know the quality may vary
What was your shutter speed and what was your aperture?
I have no idea. But that shouldn’t really matter
left is cinestill right 500t. well i think
i don't remember haha. need to watch the video again
The more video ribs make the more hair he loses 💀
LOL, i am going through a crisis currently. wait till you see my future scotland video ...
cinestill gets way more emotion and nostalgia across.
Yea that’s a good way to put it. It has a look
Cinestill shot at 800 i found was to dark. I rated it at 500, much better.
yea agreed. def gonna experiment with 500
Vision3 500t is easily the winner.!
i think so! i still do love cinestill though 😊
The 800 is just underexposed compared to the 500. If the 800 was given more light it would compete better. Though that look could be good if that's what you're going for.
yea makes sense
The halation is a dead giveaway. Also the cinestill is much more contrasty.
Yup!
Cinestil has its antihalation glow as cinestil removes the remjet for you.
yup! thats the signature
The Cinestill is underexposed, and has a cyan cast. 800 Speed is overoptimistic; maybe it's just as much a 500 as the Vision3, or try it at 640.
Yea 800 is technically underexposed
800T is more contrasty cause it's basically 500T being pushed almost a stop.
yup! makes sense
@@ribsy these videos are great! you should try to compare 500t vs cinestill but both devd in ecn (and maybe push the 500T a stop), it'd be so cool if they ended up looking similar
I could spot the 800t immediately because of the halation
yup!
Left side is 500T
Yup
kodak upper left
good one!
Shoot Cinestill at 500 and it shouldn't look much different than the Vision3 other than the halation
Depends how you dev it w
2pac :)))
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