D&D MONSTER RANKINGS - DEVILS
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2018
- An analysis of the fiends of the Nine Hells of Baator.
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The Nupperibo-type monster from Silent Hill was the Insane Cancer. Thanks to Jared Prymont for identifying it.
Esper the Bard i would have said the boomer from L4D2
The Nupperibo monster reminds me more of Dan Barrows from Clock Tower
Dragon Age brood mother
Esper the Bard what show is 22:54. It seems very familiar?
Jim Henson's The Storyteller, a favorite of mine from my childhood. That particular episode is The Soldier and Death.
"Devils lack many of the crucial ingredients that make people so interesting. Imagine a world without family, no birth, no growing up. No need for food production or basic survival necessities. No mystery of what lies beyond, no inspiration of new self discoveries. No hopes, no dreams, no friendship, no connections, no love."
Well, yeah. What else would you expect from HELL? A fulfilling life style? Even when you're a high ranking Devil you still have nothing to look forward to. But perhaps that's why they need evil souls; they need people who have forsaken such things.
Souls that were evil straight from the get-go are actually pretty cheap in the Hells, which they why they are so intent on corrupting good creatures to take their souls. And the specific good creature can also change things as well; a mighty paladin vs a lowly friar, a devil will try to get the paladin every time. The friar can simply be killed if they get in the way.
Also, they often leave for Hades for another reason; to snag some souls in the night hag markets there. Lawful souls are difficult to promote in a timely manner, and chaotic souls are unlikely to become what's appropriate. Neutral souls strike a good balance.
And it's also worth noting that some devils of various ranks take up wizardry.
That's a goddamn lie and a half. They have *a ton* to look forward to.
A devil's existence is a life of ambition, a process of constant growth in a hierarchy. Upstage or outperform whoever is above you in their service or your own merit - you evolve and get promoted. Fail or get upstaged, and you're stuck or demoted. Every single devil exists to rise up the ladder from lesser to greater, and all of them dream of becoming archdevils to gain control of Baator and eventually all other planes. The souls are used as a currency and measure of reputation, like karma: yet another mean of growth in the Hells.
They *are* people. The problem is, nobody *sees* them as people because they can't read the MM entry for them. Because if they're not people, Sith aren't people either - their systems are very similar in design
@@jpjfrey5673 I think you just summed up Washington DC.It's really gone downhill since I left
Take the thing that is missing from life but making the devil's.long for it is what creates suffering.
I’d argue that what you’re arguing as their weakest point (the fact that they are how you described them at the beginning) is actually the best thing about them. How many monsters have an extremely orderly, and yet entirely inhuman, society? There are monsters that have either of those traits, but the fact that devils are both the epitome of not human and being what many humans desire most is a great combination.
I think you *really* underrate the Nine Hells Roleplay wise, and *especially* the Pit Fiends - they can be used in various interesting ways, and a number of Dukes of Hell, are Pit Fiends, as are the Dark Eight. Aside from their powers, they are very skilled manipulators - lore wise probably more so than Imps and Succubi. Yes, they are generally minilary leaders of the Niene Hells, but they also described as masters of manipulation. Indeed, their bruttish, monstrous, and even arguably stereotypical looks serve in part to mask their keen intellect and skill tp manipulate and corrupt others. This is visible with Abarax who for years assumed the identity of (the human) Lord Orgauth and corrupted Scyllua Darkhope; or how Baalzephon of he Dark Eight manipulated, and corrupted the Great Kingdom, and became basically one of two tolerated "Gods" in Great Kingdom through her masquarade as the god Baalzy - god of wealth and prosperity. There is also Mephasm from Neverwinter Nights 2.
Another similarity to the Succubus, is that in the second edition the Pit Fiend among devils, uniquellly could completelly alter their sex (even aside from transformation) chosing between male, female or "nether". (in the original second edition Planescape material, it was explained devils with each promotion, had their sex changed between male, female and nether sex, to bith make them more capable to adapt to any situation, as well as errode their mortal identity. By the time a devil became a Pit Fiend though, they could chose their sex.)
But returning to the Imp - Pit Fiend connection, Final Fantasy games (heavily inspired by D&D, especially the first games, and latter ones like Tactics IX, XI, XII and XIV), for example Final Fantasy II and XII Pit Fiends are the more powerfull type of an Imp species monster.
But basically, I just want to write I'm a bit confused why you ranked the Pit Fiend so low,when ranking the Imps so high, seeing in many ways, if ironically, Pit Fiends can come of as Imps who "hit the gym".
(Yes, I'm aware the connection if far more complex, and technically Imps can get promoted into Pit Fiends eventually.)
But seriously, there is a similarity between the two, up to the point people can underrate both based on apperance alone. If the Pit Fiend more rarelly so...
Love the Great Kingdom reference. Interesting to see how devils allied with Baalzy competed with the Church of Hextor, and how this led to the Iron Schism between two patriarchs of the church of Hextor: one siding with Ivid V and the other with the Holy Censor Spidasa of the See of Medegia. Lots of opportunities for RP between the various evil-vs-evil factions. House Naelax (Grennel v. Szeffrin v. Ivid V vs. Strychan vs. Ahlissan Graf Reydritch + General Reynard), Darmen (Xvaner vs. Dilweg), Garasteth (Drax), Torquann, Rax (extinct), Cranden (though split between vampiric CE, Carnhand of Rel Deven N, and the Paladin of Goldbolt and his storm giant Heireneah LG ((greyhawk-return-to-the-classic.obsidianportal.com/wikis/rel-deven )))). Not to mention the rise of the animus, the fall of Rinloru to undeath and its magical stalemate with Winetha... Lots of opportunities for PC's to fall from holiness by making deals with devils, or being forced to overlook the evils of Aerdy factions so that they can get a foothold in the land, assuming they don't want to remain Robin Hood-esque heroes raiding Aerdy from Adri, and Sunndi on behalf of the secluded grey-elves (king Hazendel in Pitchfield / Rieuwood).....
"Erinyes" was actually another name for the Furies in Greek Mythology.
Oh shit I read it as "furries"💀
"Why would devils gloat so much about others being demoted...?"
Because they are Evil. Evil is rarely rational, in truth, no matter how much a devil would try to deceive you into thinking they have a point. Really, devils are bastards, who are gratified by gaining power themselves, and denying it to others. They are the ultimate expression of grandiosity, as the late Robert Moore described it. They believe they are the greatest thing ever, resent being denied the greatness they believe of themselves deserving, and take pleasure in cruelty.
I disagree with your assertion that devils are boring, because they aren't complex. I disagree, because I don't think a character _HAS_ to be complicated to be interesting. They just have to _WANT_ something, and be motivated enough that they create conflict just from wanting it. They don't need to be nuanced in order to be compelling. They just need to be a figure you can't ignore.
theyre entirely boring because they lack complexity, there is no real story telling using the majority of devils, and even demons for that matter, as is without adding to them as a DM yourself...
devils and demons are: theyre vicious, malicious, conniving, tricksters, lies, thieves, betrayers, blah blah blah blah, theyre ALL the same... nothing changes about them but their appearance and rank for the most part.
theyre made to be big evil monsters to fight, never something as complex as a lich who can have reasons as to why theyre a lich, was it for themselves? others? secrets? keeping knowledge? a continued experiment needed in the world they couldnt oversee without turning into a lich? an accident? a cruel fate visited upon them?
fiends for the most part are "GRAR IM A MONSTER, ROLL INITIATIVE"
like i cant even think of a fiend that specifically tries to bargain or sell players possibly cursed magic items, or take them on a wayward path... why not a changling like shapeshifter fiend that tries getting the party to fight amongst themselves? oh yeah... theres jsut the succubus... to be fair theres the ape like demon... that can shapechange and such but its got low intellegence... so its not likely to actually plan things out... so again its just there to be "GRARLLL IMMA KILL YOU, ROLL INITIATIVE"
They also see it as an opportunity to advance for themselves. Their big motivators on existence are promotion and overcoming their enemies.
@@elgatochurro Rakshasa, pit fiend, night hag, merrenoloth, imp, quasit.
@@elgatochurro
>a lich who can have reasons as to why theyre a lich, was it for themselves? others? secrets? keeping knowledge? a continued experiment needed in the world they couldnt oversee without turning into a lich? an accident? a cruel fate visited upon them?
Except it's the same concept. Corrupted human souls who became so by signing their soul away in a contract for SOMETHING they deemed more important.
With how to depict Hell and Devils right, there are a couple of things, first, I always thought of Hell as a kind of militaristic totalitarian society, the kind of place that's been in a dictatorship for a long time and learned to live with it. The best alegories for it are places like China, Russia, North Korea, and anywhere else in the world that's been in that state for a long time. You could watch documentaries on things like Nazi Germany during the lead up to WW2, Cambodia during the reign of the Khmer Rouge, and the Congo during the Dutch occupation.
Still though, it is important to remember, even in these places as horrible and melodramatic as the conditions may seem when watching a documentary present a macroscopic view of them, people still lived there and went about their lives as best as they could under the circumstances. If it was really all horrible all the time no one would have followed those dictators, so it was nice a lot of the time actually, as long as you were in the "in" crowd at least. For Hell, the place may have mandatory periods of service in the blood war, but as people complete those, they'll come back, probably to one of the cities like Dis, and basically be allowed a period of "shore leave" to relax and blow off steam. Asmodeus is the epitome of a super genius, calculating, manipulative, but also wise and mature villain, and would know that he would need to keep his people happy at least somewhat to actually motivate them to follow him. He would play the long game, and so be only too happy to ensure their welfare and happiness while his larger plans brewed. Still, as its this kind of society, that happiness would always be incomplete, and so shitty as a result.
I've seen Hell done well at least twice, the first of which is in the Comedy Central program Ugly Americans, which features hell and demons very heavily in its plot, and then also in the two shows by the artist Vivzepop, Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. It's no coincidence that all three of these shows are adult comedies, as much like the horror of gothic settings like Ravenloft, you need a healthy element of humor to provide it some levity and motivate the players to keep the story going. That's how I would run it at least.
I remember when the Hazbin and Helluva pipots first came out and we were so confused on what actually made Vivs version of Hell... well... "Hell", and I think you put the idea of Hell best-
It's Systematic Oppression so strong and tightly nit that it's pretty much impossible to change or get rid of. Even in the context of D&D, Hell is so parasitic and devious that Asmodeus made his presence necessary, Hell being the only thing stopping the Abyss from spilling out across the universe.
The Hellfire Engine singlehandedly made me re-imagine the version of the nine hells presented in traditional D&D lore.
My new image is an industrialized hell, great furnaces belch toxic smoke out of their blackened chimneys, the ground rent asunder to feed the devils' great forges. The footsoliders of hell are adorned in menacing black armor and wicked, serrated blades made from these forges. Lesser devils often have metal grafted, welded and bolted to their bare flesh, sometimes having whole limbs removed and replaced with weapons of infernal design. Even the devils themselves are manufactured within machines that concentrate malevolence and souls into their corporeal forms. While most of their industry is turned toward their war with the demons of the abyss, their arms and armor are also sometimes used to draw more souls into hell.
For devils, advancement is earned by exploiting those beneath you or tricking those above you. All things are resources to be used up and discarded in their eyes, and those who are no longer able to perform their function are quite literally scrapped for parts, broken down into their essence and used to manufacture other devils. Any visit to the mortal realms by devils is done so with the promise of harvesting mortal souls in mind. Some lesser devils are sent as servants to mortals who have offered their soul, or the souls of others, in exchange for such services. Others come bearing the fruits of the hell-forges, posing as sellers of magical items and strategically distributing powerful cursed items to those who could claim the most souls with them. Gold earned in this way is often used to exploit mortal greed, as even souls can be bought and sold if enough gold is on the table.
Looking at them this way gives me a sort of "theme" that I can draw inspiration from beyond just "Lawful Evil, contracts, etc", gives them their own unique visual flair, particularly in the separation of devils based on their roles.
that's generally unique and creative
This is actually largely accurate to the deeper lore you can find elsewhere, down to stripping devils of rank for more soul energy, devils with metal armor bolted to them, and the distribution of corrupting magical items, both ones that goad mortals to evil through perverse guidance and through merely having the power to let you take and hold what power you desire.
This is literally the Hell depicted in DOOM.
Misappropriation = Devil 🔉
Coercion = Demon, Daemon or Eldritch 🔊
Absolutely. 🌉
Lemure typically advance due to being dragged up. If a pit fiend needs more Imps, they just grab some Lemure's sitting around and move them up. Also, when looking at the bone devil, they delight in watching others fall because that leaves an empty space for them to fill.
Also one of my favorite memories is when we discovered an Imp familiar that had lost it's master. We captured it, chained it to the fighter's shield, and gave it a stupid nickname.
I actually had an additional page of script (removed due to time constraints) that talked about the shortcomings with this promotion aspect of devils. It raises the question of why don't the high-ranking devils just promote all the others up? That way, their armies would be far stronger. The books never explain what stops the archdevils from simply transforming all devils into the high CR kinds. The devils are iconic and edgy, but their lore is kind of half-baked.
They have to toil as lemur in fire or suffer other pains to receive the upgrades and so stronger Cr creatures have gone through more torture and horrific things. Which leaves you with allot of mid and low range creatures cause the torture process takes less time. I recall seeing a quote in an older monster manual about a lemur having to endure a thousand years of hell fire to become a pit fiend.... I can only assume they must have some of their ranks who's job it is to torture and transform lemur.... I always imagined them like a sort of evil clay... and as they are being pushed to the breaking point they begin to reveal the kinds of people they where in life.... So very evil people are identified as stronger devils.... and are tortured more... and therefore your sins.... become your torment which eventually gives you your rank.. So pit fiends where probably some vile people in life.
I'm also curious if it's an issue like star wars. Where, yes, you want to grow the army because you get stuff out of it, but if you promote too many lower devils, then you have more people coming for your position. You want the devils to win, but you want to be as high on the ladder as possible.
Lemures are basically writhing eggs that hatch on demand, but how far along in their torment they are determines what they can 'hatch' into. So Lemures are a resource to manage, as I understand it. They've got to age like fine well-tortured wine, not-so-carefully managed and cultivated, keeping some on the back burner while others get slogged off as lower creatures?
It is a hybrid of not wanting more rivals and that devils to have resources that need to be managed. I also imagine their is a certain degree of finite "EVIL" in the Hells that needs to be split between devils.
The fact that you claim a hippo in a Napoleonic military outfit to be lacking in style befuddles me and, frankly, it makes me question your logic
he blew his steampunk vaping in my face one too many times
EtB took an L here
Tbh if one appeared in a campaign I was playing in I would strongly consider leaving. Fucking things have no place in DnD.
Soviet who Cuts A Lead Pipe! 👍
Very old game series Wizardry 7/8 has space rhinos called Umpani, so yeah, they exist in a serious game.
I still remember the time a series of poor decisions ended with our party separated and our unfortunate bard stuck in a dead end with a hellfire engine grinding its way towards him.
Needless to say the bard was turned into paste as he furiously played that lute to his grave.
Legend says that his tortured soul still echoes his death song across time and space
A dm that divides party is poor idea... hope it was fair,.
Dms need to follow rules... never break a party up unless it has a good reason.. not to crush the party...have fun playing...
@@joeharvey5556 the party might have decided to split up themselves.
@@lisagaughan7154 true but my point was splitting a party by dms is very risky.. can lead players to be frustrated..
If party decides then mistakes are their results.. dms with egos are too many they need to not allow bad dms running campaigns anymore.. imho.. i tried to play after many years just be absolutely turned off agsin to the game by poor dms,., so now i run my own stuff hoping im better ..lol or i quit sessions after 3 games if dms are ego maniacs....have fun its a game ...
All my pit fiends are gargantuan.
Period.
7/7, flying, trample
Fuck yeah!
@@WexMajor82 I understand this reference
@Carey Hunt If it's going to represent an entire type of creatures, you might as well go big or go home.
Even if it is sightly cheap using size to make something epic.
@@WexMajor82 griselbrand
I once had an imp familiar that my character named Worm. Worm's real voice was deep and gravelly, but he instead elected to speak with a voice kind of like Towelie from South Park, for no other reason than that he knew it annoyed my character. One of my favorite parts about him was that he broke the fourth wall, listening in on and responding to our OOC chatter.
Satan joined the game.
DoomSlayer joined the game.
Satan left the game.
Dracula joined server
Alucard joined server
Alucard: My name is yours backwards.
Dracula left server
Doom Slayer, son of Goblin Slayer
@@HiopX You mean "dad"?
The nubperibo looks like the fat vampire from the first blade movie.
Your complaints about not being able to use some of these devils for story or as characters isn't entirely correct. Just look at Oohgie the honorary dwarf. That DM made the entire party cry when a simple ogre died.
Akenraes Vakreander remeber its not a ranking of DM skill but rather strictly what the books give, a really skilled DM could make a campaign around lemures and it could be fun :D
True, but still he's making subjective arguments about their utility; I'm simply pointing out that they are subjective.
If Devils really are "will-less" entities in 5th edition, I'd probably change that as the dm. Anything conscious with a Charisma stat is at least partially willful and anything with a 3+ in all mental stats is a willed creature.
I don't think they are will-less. I think Esper was making a leap in logic, but one not necessarily true as intended.
Devils have common traits because of the nature of the forms they are promoted (or demoted) into. That doesn't mean they lack volition. A Bone Devil may burn with jealously against superiors and be gleeful when others get demoted, but that could simply be the logical end result of being a devil _just_ powerful enough to be unsatisfied with it, because they've had a taste and want more. That and because any devil of any appreciable station is also under constant threat of underlings trying to unseat them.
Devils fall into categories, sure - the result of the infernal Lowerarchy to which they belong - but they are still individuals. Indeed, the constraints against individuality can make a devil desire to manifest their personal will even more. Every Legion Devil longs to burst out of the regiments by becoming an elite Bearded Devil, every Bearded Devil wants the freedom of movement afforded by being a Barbed Devil, etc. The only ones with the real power and freedom are the "low" ranking devils - the archfiends and their immediate servants - because their station in the Lowerarchy gives them both.
This doesn't mean the "higher" ranking devils have no wills. It just means their autonomy is restricted. And that makes devils resentment and ambitious. A potent combination.
Tierzoo is branching out and I love it
Is it actually tierzoo?
@@jibthefisher9045 r/woooosh
@@jibthefisher9045 no.
Lmaoooooo
There is no head way to make into the abyss it's a losing battle. The planes are a tiny slice of all existence. Garnering power is all there is in Bator. Looking deeper into the Hells you'll see the despair of its inhabitants. Like Sisyphus there is only the endless struggle.
Sisyphus is in the gray waste specifically Hades
I think your analysis of difficult it seems to incorporate devilry and the 9 hells into a game is a bit too simplistic. If you think of Devils more like Sith and Sith culture then a whole new set of possibilities for lore and story telling become open to both players and DMs, and that's just on idea. they can have emotional connections and feel compassion but ultimately their self-interest lets them down, which in the case of D&D can be their biggest strength and weakness.
Jayren Dempsey Yeah, I think trying to rank D&D itself is kind of pointless considering it comes down to your creativity. Like if you’re going strictly by the monster manuals sure but I’ve never had a gm who goes strictly by the monster manual.
Pit Fiends in the portuguese translation became "Senhor das Profundezas" which means means something along "Lord of the Depths", pretty good trade if you ask me. Shame they translated "fiends" to "corruptores" thou.
Thanks for this comment. I always wonder how different D&D words are translated into Portuguese (as many are so specific to germanic-rooted vocabulary). Are you referencing 4E or 3.5E? Or did they finally release 5E in Portuguese? Valeu cara
Esper the Bard also didn't know it ad released in portuguese
And btw portuguese is latin-rooted not germanic
yes we have the 5e
I think he means English is germanic-rooted, therefore it is dificult to translate it into latin languages. The Portugese Senhor das Profundezas is very similar to the French Seigneur des Profondeurs, or the French Senor de los Profundidades Meanwhile, in german you can say Grubefeind (grube means hole), and in Dutch Pitvijand (pronounced peet-fi-yand)
I think the most interesting aspect of devils comes from Mephistopheles in ‘Doctor Faustus’-that a devil might actively seek to warn who they make their contracts with in a last hope to have that person avoid the same fate as them. Alternatively, for the more lawful (and unrepentantly evil) route of devils seen in DND I’d recommend reading The Screwtape Letters-The main character of that book, Screwtape, is wholly evil but remains a multi-dimensional, charismatic figure.
According to AJ Pickett (least I think it was him) chain devils can easily be made into cenobites. Boom, tons of lore and flavor
Interesting you should comment this, as I just discovered his channel yesterday. Good stuff.
Well, it was Pathfinder which run the most with turning kytons into cenobites, with separating them into own fiendish hierarchy of perfection-obsessed souls of sinners who hail from Hell, but moved into Plane of Shadow when devils appeared and dispersed local outsiders.
I've ran a campaign by doing just that and even had the party discover the lament configuration puzzle box!
In response to your comment about devils gloating and delighting over the demotion of their brethren, I would say that this is an intended feature, rather than an oversight, one which canonically keeps the devil's from actually taking over all of existence.
The players in my games remember Bone Devils as "Bony" despite knowing their true names (Osyluth) and the game being run in another language (Hebrew, thus "Satan Etzem", literally Bone Devil).
So I really liked hearing you call them "Bony" :D
Actually, I'm weirded out by the fact that fifth edition made malebranche into horned devils. In earlier editions, this monicker was given to cornugons, who are honestly not that much different from malebranche, but used giant spiked chains as weapons and could shoot lightning bolts. Guess they went for a more usual "big red devil with a pitchfork" approach.
I also noticed the combining of malebranche ("evil stick") and cornugon ("horn creature")
In d&d, planar lore is generally understood to build between editions. The 9 hells absolutely does. The reckoning is maintained from 1st through 3.5. 4th doesn't count. Devil lore is not light in 5th, it is just not all repeated in its entirety. The same way a new novel in a series does not repeat the entirety of every previous novel. The devils absolutely are an ongoing maintained story between editions. Much of other lore can use it as a calender to know when certain events took place based on which Lord's ruled which layers. People forget that die vecna die cannononically created 3rd edition like how Savage tide created 4th.
7:30 I read in Hellbound the Blood War (2nd Edition) that lemures were actually chosen randomly for promotion, but that was the LAST time in a devil's life it could advance by luck. Indeed, it makes a little more sense.
I had no idea. Maybe that's the best idea they could come up with. Seems a bit chaotic though. Why not put the lemures through a funnel. Lemure also serve as food so let some devils go loose on 100s of lemures and just promote the last-ones-standing?
Well, the same source also says that they chose a bunch of lemures and had them all fight until one was left; the survivor was promoted to spinagon. (Also used for entertainment, kind of like fiendish cock-fighting) Maybe that's a little more organized, but they still choose the group at random from an army of millions. Still, it's hard to believe that a mindless grunt could ever stand out among other mindless grunts.
I like that better. I have unfortunately not read Hellbound the Blood War. Thinking of it though... From what I remember from other sources though is that some lemure can hold the essence of very powerful beings. If a devil dies of out Baator they turn into a first a Nupperibo (petitioner) and the a lemure. Maybe that could be a good argument for promoting a lemure. "Hey guys, this lemure here holds the essence of Neburoch the Pit Fiend. It gets my vote". From what I remember powerful devils put a lot of planning into what would happen to them after death, maybe the electors are rewarded if the promote it (get a gift or something from the lemure's still loyal henchmen). So even if the lemure is a weakling, it can still be backed up by a massive powerful organization built over 100s of years while the lemure was Pit Fiend.
Nupperibo are, unfortunately, a continuity nightmare. Some sources claim they're souls "not evil enough" to be lemures, others claim it's inflicted on stronger devils as a punishment, and still others claim they aren't devils at all, but closer related to ancient fiends who populated Baator before Asmodeus took over. (Devils turn them into lemures because they don't want them evolving into said ancient fiends; THAT would be bad.)
Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes states that devils advance when their superiors promote them. So a Lemure can ascend (descend?) by sheer luck, insofar as a greater devil needs a certain kind of servant, and picks the nearest Lemure to promote. All Lemure's are equally worthless (save as cannon fodder), so it doesn't make a difference which gets chosen to be molded into something of value to the Nine Hells.
It's only when the devil has left the Lemure stage that their worth starts mattering. At that point, they have to impress their superiors to advance, or at least not fail enough that they get demoted. They get locked in the eternal struggle, whereas the Lemure doesn't have to worry about that. The Lemure doesn't have to worry about anything. Ever.
My god, your hell would be boring. It would be like having a city of nothing but low intelligence farmers, just trying to get by.
You have no concept of the spectrum of sadism, and selfishness there is. You even said you don’t understand their petty squabbles, or why they enjoy seeing other devils getting knocked down a peg.
You’re also looking at things wrong. You said “oh you become a spine devil, your personality changes”. What if, instead, you become a spined devil, because your personality already matched it?!
In short, devils were ALL mortals, and have mortal personalities. Being a lemure seems to be a transitional stage, what you become to remove your humanity, and turn you into a devil. Your personality is still in there, your mind is being dulled, and you have no form, and the only way out if this torment, to become more of yourself, is to get a higher position.
As I recall, it used to be that greater devils created new devils by literally melding together lemures. The fact that this guy either doesn't notice, or completely glosses over, that piece of lore speaks volumes for how he's not paying attention to the underlying story implications behind these monsters.
Brian Schroyer I believe he is going purely off of 5e. Though, if you look at the devils section of 5e, it specifically says, archdevils can promote lemures to lesser devils, and lesser devils to greater devils. That is left abstract enough, that you can decide your own headcanon for it. Can they be laterally moved from one lesser demon to another? Other then pain, does the process require anything?
Also, he completely missed two things with lemures.
Firstly, they exist, because they are virtually unkillable in the nine hells. They have to be killed in the nine hells, and either by a good character, under the effects of a bless spell, or have holy water sprinkled on their corpse. Otherwise, they will come back in 1d10 days.
Secondly, they are not promoted on merit, but in necessity. If an archdevil needs a few spies, they will just promote a few lemures to imps.
I also find it funny that he complains all the devils personalities are the same, yet also complains that they don’t have enough personality, almost like the personality they put down is a baseline for the millions of denizens of hell to be based on, compared to the interesting characteristics, and personalities of Archdevils, which there are only 1 of each.
He also, I think, massively underestimates how much devil society is a hotbed for intrigue and power-plays. Devils don't need to eat or drink - require basically no resources to continue existing - and are too Evil to feel love. There is nothing motivating a devil, save three things: Fear, Sadism, and Ambition.
Every devil wants to raise their station, and to avoid losing the progress they've gained. While the society of the Nine Hells is a stifling, cruelly organized one, there is the chance for advancement. Ambition is not just allowed, it's encouraged, so long as it serves the Greater Evil. So devils plot against each other constantly, looking for any edge they can in their attempts to impress their superiors, those lower in the grand hellish Lowerarchy.
Imps serve mortals in the hopes of corrupting them into evil bastards. Barbed Devils steal material wealth, if it means attaining a cache large enough to buy their advancement from Mammon. Bone Devils have tasted enough power that they want more, coveting that possessed by their superiors, and desiring to see their peers demoted (so as to remove them as rivals for advancement). Horned Devils have acquired enough power that they feel they can rest on their laurels...until they decided, from renewed ambition or fear of being displaced by an inferior, to make another break for advancement. Pit Fiends enjoy great power, but are also constant targets for those above them (their inferiors in the Lowerarchy) who want to take their spot, and by those below (their superiors in the Lowerarchy) who are wary of such upstarts taking _their_ place.
If you can't think of interesting ways the eternal struggle for power can play out, you aren't trying. Infernal politics is nothing _BUT_ boring.
@@Bluecho4 everything* but boring
@@rivehnchan4169 Yes, thank you. That was my mistake.
There is a good reason for their backstabbing of each other; they're selfish, to a fault. Compare to angels who are selfless to a fault, even to the point of forcing that selflessness on others. Devils can't abide the success of others, because it shows their own failings, just as their own merits are revealed when others fall - it's that melding of avarice, pride, hubris, vainglory and envy that make devils, well, devils.
“Hey this might be an interesting listen on my way to work; I’ve already read a lot on the hells for my campaign but want to see more”
20 minutes of bashing on some of the coolest race later, pretty disappointed. But it’s a free world; you have the right to be wrong.
its got nothing going for it roleplay wise, its just a monster like an owlbear
Felt the same way
Orthon seems more like predator than bobafet.
Vlad Murzin good call
2:02 Then, as I'm running Hoard of the Dragon Queen(And due to having a Hell Knight, Fiend Warlock, AND a Tiefling fighter in my party, I've chosen to lean very heavily into the devil side of the module), I would argue that there ARE mysteries of the universe to discover, as of the various hells I am especially dealing with Avernus and Cania. Avernus there's the frontlines of the blood war angle and there's Zariel's quote in Mordenkainen that very poignantly points out how she feels she is right. I treat devilry as a sort of immortality, that for the devils in my game, their lives only truly began when they shuffled off their weak, mortal coil(Much like lichdom, but argualby even better if you can rise to a reasonably high place in the Hells) and the mysteries of the universe, and not to mention that the purpose in a world that rejected their sensibilities(The prime material, where tyrants and evildoers have a habit of getting slain by heroes), can be reveled in. For those with the proper ambition, the Hells are a latter. Furthermore, in my opinion the devil is inseparable from the person they came from on the prime material. I know who every major devil in my story was however many thousands of years ago they were in their mortal body. For some of my villains, becoming a devil was the best thing that ever happened to them, it was their ascension rather than their punishment.
And finally, you could definitely tell a good story about an evildoer who THOUGHT they wanted to be a devil, but(For a recent example, Baldur from the new God of War), they are deprived of the sensations and pleasures that for them made life worth living, and maybe they are tricking mortals into deals with the hope of gathering enough souls to fuel a ritual to create a new mortal body for themselves. So I personally disagree that devils can't make deep and compelling characters when you approach them with the idea that every devil from the lowest lemure to one of the Archdevils themselves was once possibly just an ordinary mortal of flesh and blood, and that when the gates of Avernus opened before them, they finally had a very clear-cut ladder to climb, and has given their lives purpose. Perhaps a devil was once a person madly in love with a specific person, but when they each died, this person was judged to go to the Hells and their betrothed is trapped in another afterlife plane, and that the devil's entire motivations for doing what they're doing is to traverse multiple planes of existence to be with their loved one again.
And there IS mystery as to what lies beyond, take Cania for existence, an entire plane of existence devoted to exploring magical power undreamed of and a playground for mighty mages ascended into devilry to continue their work where their weak mortal bodies no longer could, indeed, they can explore the mysteries of the far realm and learn about other planes of existence to a degree they were never able to before.
Not to mention the Hells definitely aren't same-y, each Hell actually has its own distinct qualities. Stygia feels like the far north of the prime material, Maladomini is the vast ruin of a once beautiful civilization, Cania is a frozen glacial wasteland akin to a magical nuclear weapons testing ground, Minauros is a fetid swamp that contains the greatest stores of wealth in the entire multiverse in its vast network of banks and devilish tycoons atop the pile.
So I personally disagree with your assessment that Devils can't be very complex. Indeed, I think you can definitely provide some fun social commentary with the twisted double-talk of their contracts and the convoluted nature of their politics where none can be trusted and those in power are looking out only for themselves(Sound familiar?). That's my take and I've explained why I do.
Not attacking anyone, just engaging in a discussion. (Though I do admit I change things a tiny bit in that I definitely don't let them just be generic clones, each one has personality.)
About Pit Fiends, how about a huge-ass one? I'm talking about full on gargantuan-sized, Chernobog-like devil with immense strength and magical powers. A manipulator of multiple smaller devils, hellbent on the expansion of the Nine Hells and victory on the Blood Wars. They could also have a little bit more individuality. Think about immense halls, with devils aloft, and at the very end, a Pit Fiend sitting casually on a throne of stone, in front of a wall of flames, Or a Pit Fiend leading the Legions of Hell against the hordes of The Abyss, taking on multiple Balors and crushing the lesser demons that can't pose a threat against him. It also makes you wonder, if these guys are so rare and powerful, imagine how immensely strong a lord of the Nine Hells would be? Asmodeus is said to have even ascended to divine status, so the other lords are a threat to recognize
Love this content, i really hope you do a video for every creature archetype. My favorite so far far was the yuan-ti and i even added their own arch in my own campaign. Thank you for providing so much detailed analysis to these creatures that newer game masters can overlook.
I'm glad to hear that Vaelfor. More to come!
Agreeded plz go through all types!
Yuan-ti have a cool-to-explore difference in their inherent worldly structure to most living creatures, in a way that is more interesting than the flawed devil-advancement structure. Yuan-ti are born basically as cosmic slaves and well, I'm speaking from 3.5 so it might be changed however. They lose their soul to a greater entity if they become too powerful.
RIP my boy Merregon. I'm using him for a homebrew setting as guards in one of my own circles of hell.
4:12, 23:39 - Y'know...if you're gonna be pulling illustrations from Pathfinder then maybe you'd be interested in _that_ setting's lore...
In my opinion, demons and devils should be the absolute highest-level threat in any game. Demons were birthed from the primordial chaos of the early universe, perhaps older than the gods themselves, while Devils’ plots exist on a scale beyond the comprehension of mortals. They should be held up on a pedestal beyond anything else. The ad nauseum creation of more and more iterations of subtypes and detailing every 5-foot square of the 9 hells and the abyss serves only to completely demystify them and make them just another enemy for the players to hack and slash their way through.
In my games I treat fiends much like Lovecraftian beings; unknowable and unkillable. If even a sliver of a demon’s essence seeps into the material plane, it would be enough to lay waste to the countryside and corrupt the landscape for miles around. Devils may masquerade among the mortals in whatever form they wish, quietly enacting their labyrinthine schemes, but they never reveal their true form, and above all, the PCs will NEVER enter combat with them (and if they do, it will be certain death for the players).
Your approach is certainly an effective one. It's not for everybody, but I do appreciate your take on fiends. It also reminds me of how the archdevils and demon lords are really quite interesting.
Like with everything, devils have to have different powerlevels. An Imp isnt just all powerful, its terrible weak, but it serves its purpose.
Story driven "devils" are still super powerful beings and theres little to no reason to play them out as such.
A single devil still has to face all the "holy" power of paladins and clerics in the D&D world, which is a tremendous task, so the evil side also needs a lot of power to stand against that.
If the holy orders are weak in your roleplay world, then the devils dont need to be as strong to stand out.
If you go all out Blood World in the mortal realm, than it becomes more and more a Warhammer 40k scenario of constant battle and bloodshed of epic proportions, which dwarfs any other conflict to meaninglessness (as what does a random undead matter if millions of devils clash each other every day?).
The fact that a devil just becomes reborn again and again is a defining point of the endless conflict they are in.
Its not mend to end and combat with devils is just a matter of avoiding them "today" , while they will be at you again tomorrow if you cross their line.
To distinquish devils from undead, its somewhat important to keep in mind what devils ultimately want. And a conflict like the blood war its all about growing your side, making them stronger than the other.
While an undead will be fine with sucking the life force out of all mortals, a devil might just want to collect the souls and put them to use in the blood war. Little torture and power in the mortal realm just becomes meaningless in the great conflict the forces of evil fight in.
Soviet who Cuts Y'know, that in a way WAS the origin of Doom. The idea to fill their Aliens-inspired game with demons came to devs after they mucked up and had the world invaded by demons in their D&D campaign.
I would argue that there are several things that would stand on a higher pedestal than demons and devils. Plus, mordenkainen’s actually has some lovecraftian monsters in it, so if you are in need of them, they exist.
I feel ascendant dragons should be harder than devils and demons since they achieved immortality
9:18 I think the words that best summarize an argument on why evil doesn't tend to work well together is because evil is inherently selfish. Because they personally want to have the most power, they want their superiors to fall, and their inferiors to stay where they are so they can go up.
When running Rise of Tiamat I had one of the metallic dragons tell the players this: "Good will always prevail over evil, because evil is too busy trying to exploit each other." The module even mentions that even with inferior numbers to the chromatic dragons, the metallic dragons will be equivocal in power, simply because they are more willing to work together than the chromatics are.
Alignments in general in D&D are argued over and I never understood why. "Good and Evil" could just be changed to "Selfless and Selfish" and mean the same thing as far as I'm concerned. Most evil people in real life aren't murder hobos. Even murderers typically dont kill randomly unless they're a nut who gets killed themselves immediately.
The Hellfire Engine is also one of my absolute favorites. While, by itself, it's hard to work with for roleplaying, I am having a lot of fun with one in my ongoing campaign. There is a cult that worships one as the one true god of my universe (HEAVILY inspired by the clockwork dragon from Wicked the book). It's a creation of a long wiped out cult of Tiamat that used its intense magical power as future telling device. After abandoned a wizard-y man (Inspired by the same Wizard of Oz from Wicked) found and restored the hellfire engine, and started the cult.
I like the AC/DC band song titles for the monster tier labels.
I think the Nuppipupipup is reminding you of the boomer from left 4 dead.
Or a glutton from Dante's inferno.
On account of the fact that I'm stupid when DMing, I never bothered to look at all the devil stat blocks during the campaign when I decided that they should be what the plot revolved around and I ended up having the party fight a pit fiend near the end. However not knowing how they worked I improvised and essentially made Chirnibog form Fantasia. It ended pretty well all things considered.
Fun fact, the horned devil right hand is in the typical metal position. Oh and Btw, i just discover your channel and i love your content, it's not just useful, but entertainly and well explained. Thanks mate
Great overview, thank you! I feel the Fiendish Codex from 3rd Edition did a far superior service to making devils dynamic and interesting than the recent 5th edition material. I still use devil NPCs from that codex to this day.
Justin W The Fiendish Codexes were very well done books 🤘
I love these monster ranking vids!
I died laughing when I saw the list names because I name most of my villains after music stuff, like the King Crimson, Aerosmith, Queen, and especially AC/DC. In my first session for my campaign, I had the main villain be a terrorist known as the Grey Cat, but whose name was actually Kiro Keen (Killer Queen), and he had 4 adopted sons named: Doarty Chape, Dides Chape, Dune Chape, Duart Chape (Or Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap). While watching this video I'm actually trying to make new villains and it makes me so happy to see D4C in this. I've been watching these videos and getting more and more inspiration to make more villains.
I'm pretty sure that the Orthon is a devil re-skin of the Predator from the movies of the same name. Invisibility? Powerful assassin/fighter, getting the drop on his prey? Explosive death? Different types of long-ranged ammo? Yep, all Predator traits to me.
4:55 I think you either mean the mancubs from doom 3 or the bommer from left 4 dead
Ewelina Kunysz i think it can also be one of the bosses from Clive Barker's Jericho
Demon's want chaos and devils want control and power.
I'm liking these monster ranking videos. :) Keep it up dude.
I have to admit, I like that Erinyes have proper plate, but being changed completely from a badass flying bow user to a kind of knight felt like a kind of betrayal of what I viewed their role as. XD
I love the AC/DC references.
You might enjoy the rest of his videos with this same format then
D4C
One word: tarrasque
Nupperibo were really awesome in earlier additions as they were the original baatorians and they if left would become elder evils (literally Zargon)
Mo Christie Succubi in 5e are now considered a neutral fiend. They no longer fall under either. I kinda like it that way though it can give them their own vibe now.
When I use the lesser Devils, I often have them mirror my players’ worse character traits or a perverted version of their goals and ambitions. For example a fighter who seeks glory in battle might find an Erinyes secretly shadowing him, giving him special advantages in battle when things aren’t going his way or appearing to him when victory is close at hand. Later, the fighter will associate her presence with victory, and it is then that she will offer him something more. I’d use an Ice Devil’s superiority complex and rivalries to mirror a character character like an ambitious wizard who seeks to put do her rivals. It would fill her dreams with hints of a powerful arcane secret and the notion that her rivals are seeking the secret as well. Later on the Ice Devil would appear before the wizard, but to let her study it in exchange for her protection spells, it would lie and say that it defected from the Hells. It might then bring up the secret in conversation one day and strike up a bargain. Lastly, Paladins seek to defend the innocent at all cost. Perhaps one day a soul might ask them why they were chosen by their god. The Paladin might say it’s because of their strong spirit or physical talents, to which the soul might ask, “Are you certain that your spirit and strength alone could defend everyone? Can you truly burn brightly enough to chase out all of the darkness? There is half a multiverse full of it after all.”. The soul would do its best to plant the seed of doubt into the Paladin, causing them to become more paranoid and protective of their friends and the innocents. Later the soul would reveal itself as a Barbed Devil, a sentinel of Hell, and offer to teach the Paladin secrets that would help to prevent harm from coming to those he protects.
I like that you're so critical of devils in D&D. Many good points. 1) The devil's individuality not being able to survive promotion/demotion. This does not seem to make sense with devils extreme egoism. Something of the devil must survive promotion, what would otherwise be the point of promotion? On the other hand the lore tells us that in order to promote one must go through a process of burning in some flame for x number of days/years at some level of Baator, and that this burning process cleanses the devil from taints of chaos, or in other words make the devils more lawful so their personality would change. 2) What lemures get promoted and why. Well, I have no idea really. According to lore there is a council deciding who gets promoted but I can't imagine what arguments people would put forward in lemure promotion debates. 3) Devils lacking personality. I agree, but maybe that's not too big of a problem. They are one of the ultimate evils. How they act makes no sense for humans since they are so different. It's like the modron's of Mechanus, completely alien mindsets not possible to fully understand.
Chain devils are basically those demons from Hellraiser.
In some ways, The devils do too good of a job illustrating why it sucks to be in hell, you’re part of a rigid structure and has some of the hellish aspects of World War I back-and-forth movements with no fatal blows, nor triumphant victories, just a vicious grind forever in the mud.
It’s interesting when it gets to arch devils because they are actually allowed their own form and more personality.
So up until then it’s a pure struggle in a hierarchy that only recognize the need for power until you become one of the figureheads you are allowed much of a personality.
I guess they’re trying to illustrate the point of pettiness getting in the way of success, and you think ‘wow if anybody was reasonable they would try to get more power’ and then you actually look at the real world and realize ‘oh, yeah’ people’s pettiness and weirdness gets in the way of everything all the time.
Narzugon sounds like a great antagonist for a paladin or asamir character, I do agree that a good dm can make these guys work, I like the idea of just going with whatever floats your boat over what's printed.
The "Oblivion" that you see in Elder Scrolls IV, Oblivion is one plane of Oblivion, which belongs to Mehrunes Dagon, the daedric (demonic) prince of destruction, change, revolution, and ambition. The plain itself is called the Deadlands. The Shivering Isles is another plane, which belongs to Sheogorath, the daedric prince of madness. Every prince has their own plane, and each has a different asthetic. Molag Bal's plane of Coldharbour is much different from Azura's plane of Moonshadow.
A little disappointed in the 5e lineup of devils. I remember in 3.5 the pit fiend always struck me as being godlike in its schemes and attitude.
Also, I like devils as scaling enemies. PCs try to stop a devils villain before he can reach his next evolution, etc
Reason why I subscribed, great content.
A:
B: imp
C: spined devil, erinyes, abishai, narzugon
D: barbed devil, bone devil, bearded devil, ice devil, horned devil, pit fiend, chain devil, hellfire engine, amnizu, orthon
F: nupperibo, merregon, lemure
Your ACDC song titles as the Tier sub-titles left me, dare I say, Thunderstruck!
Did you not read any lore before you approached this video? You went to the same plane of oblivion in the eponymous game because you were entering Mehrunes Dagon's personal plane of oblivion. Stop hating on the second best elder scrolls.
All the planes except Paradise and the shivering isles in Oblivion were the same. Peryites pits, boethiahs arena, etc.
Ah, I see you're doing videos for Demons and Devils.
Sanguine Dream
WHAT TIPPED YOU OFF GENIUSE!?
Scott Radcliffe dis better be a whoosh, or im going to be disappointed.
Lonetechwolf
Ummm what?
Scott Radcliffe well you clearly didn’t understand that devils and demons stands for DnD in acronym form, being a simple joke, not a funny one but still a joke...
Also your welcome for the whoosh opportunity.
The Nupperibo's name is likely drawn from the Noppera-Bo, a faceless ghost from japanese folklore. Although that's about where the similarities end, as Noppera-Bo were masters of disguise, capable of wearing any face and flawlessly impersonating anyone.
Valar morghulis
Im brand new to the DMing game. Your vids have helped alot.
Can you do demon tier list
What about the Rakshasa? It's technically a Devil from what I'm reading.
Rakshasa are fallen angels. Technically devils are all the same species, since they have the promotion system. I think Rakshasa might be fiends, but not Devils.
@@Resistant396 Not to fight, but I'm going to protest that with this section of the monster manual.
" Evil Spirits in Mortal Flesh. Rakshasas originated long ago in the Nine Hells, when powerful devils created a dark ritual to free their essence from their fiendish bodies in order to escape the Lower Planes. " So maybe not out right devils, but at least connected to them.
One of his other videos goes over them(one I watched after making this comment.) Apparently they got reworked in 5e. He mixed them in with the yugoloths and other non-demon/non-devil fiends.
Thought they came from the middle east, or India?
There's no India in dnd though?
Just discovered you and I'm enjoying your videos.
A Beholder with destroy these devils. Even Gods shy away from them.
As far as i remember from reading Lore of previous redactions Nuperribo is the DEMOTED devil!!! It's not a soul recently arrived, but a former devil punished through intrigue or his own failure not by death but by reducing him to this miserable existance. This creature is so deep actually with his feeling of misfortune, anger and useless urge for revenge. Sad it can't express all of this feelings.
surprised to see no rakshasa.
They aren't devils. Though I'm considering doing a "Miscellaneous Fiends" video that would include them along with monsters like Succubus, Night Hag, and Yugoloths.
Esper the Bard Sounds like a good teir bid to me!
oh yeah that's true my bad. And that would make for a good video looking into the wonderful and terrifying tool box that is Miscellaneous Fiends.
No succubi?
Succubi and incubi have been separated into their own thing in 5E
Succubi and incubi are demons, not devils.
they were always demons in dnd, even as far back as regular DnD before ADND or 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th.
mutegrab666 in 4e they were changed into devils before being separated completely into 5e though
luca lorena They should've remained demons. Succubi and incubi are perversions of beauty and lust. They use their charms to undermine the ideal of love and manipulate mortals into doing terrible acts by playing with their emotions. Finally, they use sex, the process of creating life, in order to feed and destroy life. What separates demons from other types of fiends is that they are manifestations of chaos and evil whose forms, personalities, and abilities are a deliberate mockery of the various aspects of life itself, and succubi and incubi are (or were) one of the best examples of this motif.
I remember reading the cleric quintet when I was a kid and loving the imp in it. He was my second favorite character after Pickle the druid dwarf.
I've always promoted Lemure to the next stage of Devil by having multiple Lemure combine and then the most dynamic of ego wins out and kills all the rest. This can either be done by the will of the Lemure or when another Devil wishes to create a stronger fiend for their, or their masters, service. No devil below Bone Devil can force Lemur into this state of being.
Thats a cool concept to make the weak devil useful on different stages of powerlevels.
A gigantic world devouring super lemure might just be as crazy as a Tarrasque, just a matter of fusing enough of them together into bigger and bigger beings.
Could even go as far as to make an entire plane of existence a gigant lemure floating in space as a omnipotent being.
So Menos Grande from Bleach?
It's how it worked. They are the result of a soul being tortured and horrifically mutilated until they're basic devilish raw construction material.
Iirc, pathfinder pitfiends can do that
Succubus better be a b on demon list
The succubus is a pretty damn good monster, I actually featured it in my Top 10 Deadliest Monsters video
Someone else who can appreciate a good monster
At a quick glance, I'd give the succubus:
Mechanics 4
Style 4
Roleplaying 5
Lore 3
Flexibility 3
A Tier
Strangely in 5e they aren't devils or demons, but just general fiends.
Your magic: the gathering references are fantastic
Arigato Hanzo! Though D&D is far more satisfying of an experience for me, Magic will always be important to me.
Esper the Bard totally understandable, D&D is far more satisfying, and also less expensive i'd say 😂
Thank you, I have a Tiefling rogue smuggler who's a pirate and this gives me an idea for a backstory. Raiding ships and stealing the riches of the nation my DM makes up
Great stuff man. Keep it going
War, War Never Changes
War is hell, as so is monotony
To be fair, the party going to the nine hells is definitely gonna be a....reDemon experience to some 😈😏 getting the devil beaten into them
Pretty sure the Nupperibo has 3 mouths and no eyes. It's not very clear in the image, but the lore entry does use the word "mouths" when referring to a single entity. Also, I've always been intrigued by the Erinyes. So I have one who decided to purchase a vacant seaside estate for a vacation home after seeing a sunset over the ocean when she was on the material plane to collect an infernal debt.
Love the AC/DC tier rating system! Good Job!
The Nupperibo, reminds me of a daemon of Nurgle from Warhammer, but only in looks. On a side note do you know what irony is? The Nupperibo is great because of that irony, lazy guy in life, lazy monster in hell, scum bag in life be a lemure, a literal scumbag, as you noted, and the point is they aren't supposed to or expected to move up the ranks, and if they do, hey got a lucky imp there now.
I feel like the endless war between Hell and the Abyss has some potential, although mostly involving the driving forces behind the conflict, instead of the battles themselves.
I think it would be neat to have an arc involving a greedy, lazy, and economically focused Horned Devil in a position of power to deliberately order their commanders to not come to the aid of a rival general in a crucial battle, forfeiting the battle so that they won't have to pour more resources into maintaining the offensive and draining the Horned Devil's resources, and his enemies want him removed.
The Horned Devil's rival then badgers the mortal PCs into a contract to eliminate the Horned Devil by blackmailing them, or threatening their friends, loved ones, or financial assets until they give in and assist the general in removing his slothful rival.
I think that could be cool.
Abishai, aka: Dragon-Furries of the 9 Hells
Very informative video. Would love to see an Arch Devil video, and a Demon video as well.
The bone devil's insect wings appear to be a new addition in the new edition, although they definitely fancy the thing's look up quite a bit. I would give them a full grade higher representation because of that change.
Nice content, I sub. I have a question: I'm preparing a Planescape setting for D&D5 and I will include the protagonist of Planescape Torment who, at the end, go in the blood war, how the Pcs could "save" him from it?
Love these rankings. Also love the AC/DC ref in this video.
The imp also has the ability to use its shapechange ability to disguise itself as another type of familiar, which grants even more roleplaying options for evil spellcasters.
You might for example confuse the intelligence gathering efforts of one of your diplomatic enemies by appearing to be a wizard with a centipede companion, only to have your imp appear later, fully decked out in magic equipment and wielding a wand of fireball... =p
I love the chain devil I even try to have a similar play style in some games
So far my D&D campaigns haven't dealt that much with devils, only encounter i can remember was playing a kenku sorc against a pair of spinned devils that could revive each other. Made sure to annoy the hell out of them though by mimicking everything they said back at them and doing their own laughter whenever they missed attacks or the like while snipping from afar with spells. My party really liked that.
It says in the Monster Manuel that Lemures are promoted at random when higher devils need imps as scouts or for menial tasks
The Nvpperibo reminds me of that mother thing from dragons age.
Nupperibo reminds me of Stitches from WoW or the Broodmother from Dragon Age: Origins
I challenge that the new Descent into Avernus module proves this attitude wrong on the devil front. Check out some of public games in the setting leading up to its release.
I’ll like and subscribe for all the great rock references in the ranking tiers, not to mention the great ranking style
The deadlands are the least subtle of the planes of Oblivion, because Mehrunes Dagon is one of least subtle Daedra Princes. He's the Prince of destruction, natural disasters, and revolution, you didn't expect him to be popping out of a dark corner yelling boo did you?
I turned a Chain Devil into a corrupted demon, called the Warden. Covered in dark ooze it became a powerful demon in charge of one of Graz'zt's prisons in Azzagrat. Let's just say with some tweaking, using animate chain mechanic, solid DC 12 + 2 per chain, eventually with the Warden low, the entire party was chained down. Sounds brutal, but I removed it's movement speed to 15, but allowed it to blink 3 times per day, 30 feet but then it would not be able to move before or after. It made a crazy fight and when they eventually won, I was so excited, but they were more so.