How to do Regenerative Braking on an electric bicycle Q&A#9
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
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One thing not mentioned in this video is the fact that it saves brake discs. That is my favourite thing about regenerative braking.
given the cost of a set of pads (like 5 bucks) and a new dis (like how often? at $16) its going to take a few years to make that worth the cost of just changing pads (not even factoring in all the time for fitting it) ... however in VERY RARE situations on super long down hills on super steep mountain roads it may help prevent brake over heating.
Henno Marais Thanks Yes Amen
So your favourite thing is not the most useful thing witch is actually charging the battery
I really need this. Iv got crazy hills and I'm burning thru pads and discs
@@finophile why is cost a factor? He likes that it helps save them.... Pointless comment
Seattle, SanFrancisco: these are the cities for regenerative breaking! especially with cargo. I want it just to save my break pads.
Great video. Apart from saving brake pads: It's great for heavy cargo in the mountains/hills. Then the return is much higher than just stop and go. It's rather: It would be stupid not making use of the hard gained potential energy. The overcharging note is a good reminder and could be prevented with some additional overcharge protection which disables regen when the battery voltage is to high.
This video is very helpful. I got to understand the Regenerative braking very easily and clearly. Thank you very much.
Ideal. Just as I was thinking I would ask you about the value of regen braking you answered the question. Good stuff. Thanks
Thanks for the info mate, I am desperately looking for this answer for my upcoming project work. This has really helped me to start my work. Need more videos from you.
Big thank you Micah for this video! Even though this video is nearly 3 years old the info is still pertinent. I just bought a Wallke X3 Pro that has "W-PAS" regen braking and I live on top of a hill. I'm only a few hours from Pittsburgh so you know how the land is around here. It's been in the back of my mind since purchasing the bike about how it may not be safe to charge to 100% and use regen as I leave for a ride. You confirmed my suspicion in this video, Thank you!
Maybe try to implement some type of fast charger for your phone on that e-bike, so you pump your phone and discharge your battery to around 95% before you leave the hill before you pump the battery any further. Also I'm pretty sure there could be a feature implemented in ESC that could sense when battery is full and then just short the motor wires so it uses its own backwards EMF.
when using pulsed dc coils, you get inductive spikes, these carry a lot of energy that can be restored into the battery. to do so the esc needs to have fast switching mosfets.
Great video, it explained exactly what I was looking for in plain, easy to understand language. Keep up the good job.
i subscribe because i love the way you explain ebikes before i buy them and you allways with a smile to explain things and to answer question thank you so much
Learned a lot from your regen breaking video. Thanks a million. Great benefit from subscribing to your information!
excellent video mate. really explained all the aspect of regenerating. keep up the good work!
I think your videos are amazing. I love that your answers are entirely comprehensive and effectively cover every angle and color in all corners of whatever subject your discussing. I really enjoy watching you and I also have a questio on for you: I have been to been to tinkering and fixing my ebike for about the last 5 years or so. It's the first- but not only³7⁷ I've ever owned and I bought it used. it's a Motorino Xpr (discontinued) and I love it.ive recently taken a few deeper dives into repair and modification by switching out the whole back tire and motor (break assembly... etc ) with that of a Daymak Eagle's. That was fine. But now I am attempting to replace the controller with one that to has considerably more power because I have also added another 12v battery to the series last time I replaced them... making it a 72 v bike.
In doing so I HAVE ENCOUNTERED THE WIERDEST THING... wierd because- as with every other new "thing" about ebike mechanics that I come across I consult CZcams videos (like those you make) for some clarification. but with this item I cannot find any single video, blog or even comment or question about it. here it is & I hope you know what I'm describing and can offer me some Info about an it and tell me if I need to connect it to something or what ( oh yeah I foolishly forgot to take a picture of where the wires that used to run to it came from and what wires they were-... I know!)
**It's a small metal box that looks like a "mini- me" of my original controller and says "60v DC - 12vDC" OR or something basically like that and only a single set of 3 wires go into ( or are they coming out of?!?!...hmmmm) this little mystery box. my guess is something to do with lights but what is it and -whatever function it has: why wouldn't it just be done in the controller like everything else?
any help would be so appreciated. Thanks
All my best,
& please keep up the great work!
big fan!!
Christian Hagen
Toronto, Canada
Another good informative video!
Hi Micah,
I'm loving your videos up to now and I'm just about to order both of your books on amazon!
I'm curious about where you think the e-bike world is going from here. I'm seeing more and more cool companies rising up and coming out with amazing products. I know you must have a good scope on the evolution of e-bikes, curious about your take and where is started, where it is now and where it's going.
Thanks for the great videos, keep them coming!
Hey, loved this video. I have been asking this question and never got a good answer until I watched your video. Great info and very well delivered. Thank You
you know most controllers can be enabled its just making a small connection on the PCB
The best and clear explanation how is work regen brake. Thank you!
Each year the Google Gravity Games have an Engineering Challenge class. In 2017 the challenge was to coast down the hill with an electric STEM Cycle whose batteries are initially depleted. Using regen braking, charge the batteries while coasting. The course was approximately 500 feet long. Once you got to the finish like, the driver could select electric drive and back up as far as the batteries would enable. Our high school STEM Cycle has a 48V 25A hub motor with regen controller. Our driver was able to back up 373 feet to win the event. I don't know the efficiency percentage here. Our battery pack consisted of 7 Nissan Leaf dual 4.2 volt cells in series. Thought you might enjoy this unique application of regenerative braking. Enjoyed the video, bought your E-book via Amazon so we could learn more in regard to applications of the smaller 18650 batteries in our STEM education. Best regards, Barry
A long winded video to explain that regenerative braking is impracticable and not worth the extra expense. It's mass time speed and around 50 stops in 20 miles might reach 5%. However, if you are going up and down long hills, that all changes, If you go up a mountain and down a mountain, 50% of the distance down, at 50% efficiency would add up to a 25% efficiency. The only way it could reach 50% is if it was all downhill, from the start. To look at it another way. For every mile downhill, you might gain 1/2 a mile in range. Correct me if this is incorrect.
Efficiency of regenerative braking is an interesting question - it's certainly possible to make regenerative braking more efficient, but to do so you basically rely on reducing drag: since drag is (as I'm sure you're aware) proportionate to the square of speed, you can get much better efficiency by travelling very slowly. Going downhill at very low speed and basically converting your GPE directly to chemical energy in the battery, then slowly converting it back, will reduce drag a lot... but isn't much use in the real world since the point of an eBike is to travel at a decent speed
@Stephen Morton Well said! Not to mention having to replace disc brake pads much seldom! I was considering putting high capacity caps in parallel with the battery, to store power with much less resistance then with the full battery and enable quick boost when accelerating again. Worth a shot?
@Stephen Morton Thanks, makes sense. I was thinking of using Trinket for hooking up the brake switch and a transistor to charge the capacitors when braking. But looking at the bus system schematic would definitely come in handy. btw, I use my pas ebike for a 40mile round trip commute and definitely less lazy then taking the public transport or a car but still doable every day unlike normal cycles :) 1000 miles every month!
Very informative, I wondered about the efficiency of regenerative brakes on ebikes, 8 percent seems very little if you rely entirely on electricity to ride that bike. I guess the prices for that technology doesn't compensate the price (about twice as much). Thanks again, nice video.
Funny, that odd situation you outlined exactly described MY situation. I live in San Francisco! Anyway, this video pretty much answered that question. Needless to say, if I am starting out on top of a long line of down hill trojectories it means whenever I return I have to climb all the way home. So I wanted to look into this topic as a possible way to help myself home. Thank you for answering that question, because what I wondered was how starting off fully charged, going downhill for a pretty good ways initially, would effect the the system. Imagine if you hadn't laid that one exception out like you did, I would still be ignorant in a bad way.
Very informative, glad I watched, I'm in the market for an Ebike and I live on a hill.
I was wondering about this, so a search yielded this video and the answer. My hub motor is the smaller geared type. So now I know to buy disk brake pads for downhill. Thanks Micah.
Regen can really put a strain on the drop outs. (Given a hub motor ) Imagine doing 40 miles an our and suddenly you touch the brake just enough to activate regen the slow down is like going from third gear to first gear depending on settings. This reverse torque will eventually round out the rectangular dropout into a round drop out despite the crappy torque arms recommended. I have two torque arms on each side and still a problem!
Absolutely amazing videos love them all everything is so well executed and explained keep up the amazing videos thanks for the awesome content
Very well explain And you cover all aspects of regenerated breaking ....thank you sir.
Not all.
Why he didn't talk about braking pads?
With regen braking you can save a lot of money on braking pads
Hi Thks Mike, Enjoyed your many videos, very impressed with your good explanations n in-depth knowledge ! This one too, especially on the types of motor that can support regen. charging. One good point was that a restraining torque arm may be needed to prevent axile nuts working loose! With only a few % power recovery on av usage, agree that it is not worthwhile for the extra cost n complexity! In fact, as a frequent ebike user, I enjoy a little pedalling on the way, which might achieve much more than the regen braking, n give me some helpful exercise!
yes, i got a golden motor, magic pie 3, rear wheel drive, and im going to set me up some regen, thanks for this
I was just wondering about this same topic on one of my commutes last week and as I live on top of a hill, I can see how I could sometimes run into the overcharging scenario.
Regen braking is good for saving your brake :)
Love your videos, keep up the good work!
Thanks for this video, it helped me a lot to become more realistic about the pro's and con's Thanks!
Love the video this month and it was very informative
I just discovered your channel. Awesome!
Great video it helped me lot, explanation was very good.especially hill case and 100% battery scenario .
Thank you again. I live in an area north of Pittsburgh and its mostly up or down not to much level ground around here. Im planing on a tadpole recumbent build from scratch and would like to go electric. I will be buying your books soon. I have several plans for trike from atomic zombies. Ive built other gas powered bikes but engine vibration noise etc do make them less desirable. I would love to impliment some flexable solar panels onto a bob type trailer to carry trip gear as well as spare battery in charge.
I can't decide between a DIY gas bike, or a DIY E-bike! I think I want to do an e-bike, for reliability, but I'm worried about range, and how they handle below 0 degrees F weather... also, I'm a novice, in batteries and electronics, but your channel is helping A LOT! Thanks!
I built two ebikes and i had no DIY experience. My desire to build it was high.
For simplicity you can buy a battery at em3ev.com/. No soldering.
Also, ebikes work down to -20 Celcius. HOWEVER, they need to be recharged above 0 celcius
thanks for your input! i guess i just cant afford an e bike build, ill have to start with a 4 stroke gas bike, i have more experience with that type, anyways. Thanks!
Cold will drastically lower the charge you get out of a lithium ion battery, and NEVER charge a cold battery. You should always charge at room temperature if possible, but 100% for sure above 0 Celcius (32 Fahrenheit for those that are dumb). Discharging a cold battery is completely fine, but like I said, you'll get a drastically reduced range.
Good info, never heard of the torque arm before watching this video. I wonder if you will make a video series on converting motorcycles to electric ones.
You can regen with mid-drive, it just has to be directly connected to the drivetrain like a motorcycle, you can do that with one of the jackshaft kits for motorized bicycles and a swap from a freewheel hub to a fixed hub.
Love your work! Keep it up!
thanks for you're information learn much from you !...have a little question...will the regenerative function will make the wheel rool Harder than it rools normally when you're going down hill ......??
Hey Micah do you think you could make a video about the cycle analyst?Basically how to get the most power out of the cycle analyst along with your controller.How do you make them talk to each other and get everything your bike can output.
Hi Josh! I'm in the mountains of Kootenays, BC, and what I like about my Grin regen is the GMac geared rear hub motor gears down and helps a lot slowing me down on big hills. My bike has been NOT RUNNING for 3 mos and I have narrowed it down to the regen switch sticking, or somehow cutting off the motor until I power it OFF, then start again, but every time I BRAKE the same thing happens. It also OVER-BRAKES 'electronically' (I think) at times. I'm going to replace the levers and see if that fixes it. I already replaced the controller, and the battery. I'll check back after I fix it.
Love your videos, very informative.
I have a question though. I am buying a new battery and I was wondering, does it need to have the same port for imput\output or can it be done using different ports?
If you don't have a regen controller it may still be possible to add resistive braking. It saves a lot of caliper brake pads on my old bike here in a very hilly place. I have 3x 1 ohm 50watt resistors in star connection across the motor leads via a big two pole pushbutton on the handlebars. Also included a 20w lightbulb to use some of that free power. Brake pads are not expensive but my time is valuable.
I ran into the BMS issue with a Golden DD. It had regen when I used a 36v Lifepo from China. I got a 48v Shark and no regen. The regen made for a nice amount of braking. On a basic build the brakes may be a weak point, so I'd say the regen is a big plus. Starting on a hill I guess it would help to know the amount of charge. Subtract that from a full charge and then stop the charging a bit below that amount. Can't do it on most chargers. I suppose a fully integrated DIY industry would look at different motors, BMS boards, chargers, etc and configure specific systems. Thanks for all the links. I noticed a couple of the links aren't working.
I was waiting for the answer :D thank you very much !!! :D Awsome 👍👌Your videos help me a lot !
I like using Regen. It saves wear and tear on my brake pads and also prevents brake lock up, kinda like (ABS)
I always prefer the option of whether to lock brakes or not. ABS in my first auto caused accident. ABSWill lock up and slide and you can’t control it. It doesn’t take in changing substrates you may encounter. I started sliding through intersection when tires touched painted lines iof sidewalk crossing. I would have let off brakes on first line and stopped before secound
Now I always disconnectABS systems!
Nice Video Mike! I Learn everything by your Videos!
Question: How can I measure AH of a DIY Battery Pack by cell, can you give us the Formula?
Divide the watt hours by the voltage, then by the number of cells in parallel.
Ah= (Wh/Volts)/#parallel cells
NeutronPCXT Thx Bro ✌️
thanks great info learning a lot from you also I bought your battery book I need to get the e bike book
On my Electric Daihatsu Mira, the variable regen function built into the clutch pedal was responsible for 27% of my range.
Used to get 80 to 90 km with the 8.5kWh LifeTech pack. Worlds most efficient electric vehicle conversion.
That's incredible!
Excellent video BUT how does it work? How many volts does the motor generate and how many amps? These are variables i'm concerned about. Could a fuse work for over voltage/amps?
Hello Miach, thank you for posting such informative video. I am planning to attach a front wheel drive hub motor for a common. I am planning to do this for differently abled people. Can you suggest if it can be auto braked unless one uses the throttle to move it. Hope you will make a video very soon for this. Thank you in advance
Hiii
I have been seeing your viedoes in CZcams .How can I use regenerative braking for the sway bike. How I can get efficiency torque to bike.which batteries can provide more life .
got good knowledge about the possibility of regenerative system installation in e-bike, and my question is that if we want to track how much energy is generated from the regenerative system how to design such system and log the data.
E-TWOW scooter is equipped with regen. I have a 24v with 250w motor. 4.0Ah battery gets about 8-10 kms.
May have raised as many questions as you answered. I'm in the market for my 1st ebike so I'm reading and watching lots of reviews/how to/informational videos.
1) In the vid you mentioned connecting regen wires to the e brake so does that mean you can coast without resistance if you don't apply the breaks?
2) True or false, I thought I seen a vid that said a direct drive hub motor will will always have rolling resistance whether its regen or not.
3) You mentioned how inefficient regen braking is which is what I suspected. So my thought is that with regen you cannot simply coast because as soon as you let off the throttle the motor is stopping you thus forcing inefficient jackrabbit stop and start driving as you would have to stay on the throttle until you wish to stop.
4) So my next thought is that coasting especially if you have a good coaster and decreasing rolling resistance with better bearings and high pressure tires will get me more mileage than regen ever could. Coasting more would also be less stressful on the motor and other components, all around less wear and tear.
These are good questions and need to be answered, especially if the name of this channel is eBikeSchool.
Yeaahh.. FANTASTIC video!! You even mentioned that very specific scenario riding a fully charged battery downhill... haha...
it's hard to pack all that information in one video, you managed to cover a LOT and I'm sure lots of people will ask even more questions and second video will be up soon haha
Next video mention about the powerful direct drive mid drive with regen (I sent some links on your Facebook post) Maybe just quickly mention about bigger bikes like Stealth Bomber, LMX, custom DIY Raptor/Vector and maybe even mention Zero & Alta motorcycles (people can do a Google search on these names for more info).
Well done mate... you're pumping some AWESOME content!!! Congrats =]
Very informative! thank you.
I appreciate your videos:-)
And have a question for you.
How to replace the wire harness going into the hub motor, if the wheel loosened and twisted the wires so much that they cut themselves and broke the electric connection :-(
Exactly what I was looking for!
Mine has everything you mentioned including the switch in the brake lever and the connector on the controller, it was a £150 kit so pretty cheap but it still has everything you mentioned is it likely that i have regenerative braking?
Hey I'm building a hybrid gas minibike with electric hub motor on the front and a 125cc powering the rear. From what you were saying I should be able to deplete the batteries driving threw town and charge them driving on the trail gas powered. But I'll need a charge controller built in. My question is will a controller handle being on regen for extended times or should I build a separate/independent relayed circuit with charge controller built in?
Great info on Regan braking
In making a regenerative breaking system do you think you can adjust it for specific speeds?
It seems super caps are better suited to capture the energy from regenerative braking due to their speed in charging relative to batteries. Your 5% average return on power is low, especially if you account for the wattage added with pedaling. Maybe regen braking requires extremely fast power storage for optimal efficiency? A super cap/lithium battery hybrid system would obviously add complexity and take a little engineering (easy for me to say).
Great video, I'm sure with the growth of e bikes the regeneration options will improve. I just hate brakeing when cycling :D
Great vid, thanks!
Thanks for the informative video. Can it not feel strange with just have an on off electric break. Would not a progressive break better? It a big difference breaking force in a downhill compared stopping at a red light.
Sir please Tell me that BLDC regenerative power motor controller wich used in an e bike, is it will be suitable for used lithium ion battery pack in this e bike.
I love to learn more every time with your videos.
Just a question. Is it possible to place two batteries in an ebike? And what to consider about this. Thanks!!
I assume you mean in parallel? Yes, it is. Works best when they are similar Ah and you should only put them in parallel when they are the same or almost identical voltage (i.e. charge state). Good rule of thumb is to only parallel them when they are both full charge
Hi Mike
Watched vids on building battery's 1-5 great well done. I have a battery that shows 20% on battery monitor but 25 volts fully charged on multimeter, when attached to bike only provides power based on the 20% reading for limited time is there anything I can do to repair problem? The charger goes red saying it's charging then after 10 mins goes green to say complete, after limited use at low power multimeter shows still 24volts. Can you help
Many thanks Tony
Good tips, thank you!
Is there a way to make a geared motor brake regeneratively, like on a cheap ebike? Great video!
Maybe looking for a way to activate the cloutch so it regens
how about programming your motor and is it possible 2 use c1 and brc in the same battery pack
greaqd vids love your site
Hi Micah, thanks for your videos, really a life saver.I have a question. If my e bike has a BMS, and I go downhill on a 100% charged battery using regen braking, will that be risky for the battery/will it overcharge the battery?
Bms close mosfet and the motor cannot pump Ah into the battery, so it will not brake
Could you do a step by step electric bike build/conversion video?
Goodday siy. May i ask where can be posible to test the regenerative braking output by using multitester. I hope you notice i just this for my thesis. Thank you your vedio really help 🥰
Great Video Mike, it helped me a lot to decide should I use regenerative braking or not.
I do have one question.
How can I adjust controller to cut the electricity to the motor when I hit the brake, on a controller without regen?
I will use thumb drive or torque, so I don't wont to brake and motor running at the same time.
I just realized how stupid my question is :)
Great content and my comment ; the trail ride to a summit is a wise and perfect profile for use of regeneration circuit. Does a combo charge control /BMS exist?
Would regenerative braking make sense on a mountain bike where there is a lot of up and down hill travel or does the weight difference counterbalance this benefit. Thanks
Super content very helpful!!!
Great video man. Very informative. I am confused though because surron x bikes are mid drive and has regen braking. I know it’s more difficult on a mid drive than direct drive hub drive but it is possible.
Hello Mike, I really like and enjoy your videos as they are pretty informative.
I want to ask you a question:
My eBike has a motor in the back wheel, it is one of those silver ones you showed in this video.
The problem is, the motor is way to loud for my ears. So my question is: is there any possibility to reduce the noise it makes, without running into thermal problems?
I'd start by ruling out a problem. Geared motors are louder than other motors, but they shouldn't be terribly loud. You may have stripped gears or a worn clutch in there. If you have a local ebike shop, I'd have them check the motor for problems. Other than that, going slower is about the only way to reduce the noise a motor makes, short of getting a more expensive "sine wave controller".
EbikeSchool.com thank you for the quick response. The thing is, it was loud from the beginning... But it is getting louder. In just drove about 700 km yet.
I will let the local shop check it then.
Would using separate super capacitors be a good idea to utilize regenerative braking? Thinking it would save more discharge on the main battery when used to accelerate again.
I saw somewhere dudes adding supercapacitors to electric bikes with lithium battery, but it was quite unfriendly with a Li-Ion battery, as it would often demand or push back a lot of amps into it, which made it heat up often. There could be a solution with ESC controllers or some type of circuit controling the output (not to discharge or charge the battery with high currents), I'm sure of it.
i think it would be worth having for just being another brake alone and any range increase is great itd be great for going down steep hills
Instead of breaking if you had a rear drive motor would it be possible and worthwhile to put a device on the front wheel that would help recharge your battery?
How about "dynamic braking" as used in diesel-electric and some electric locomotives? Specifically for a tandem with a heavy trailer to control downhill speed.
Some tandems have drag brakes for this function, typically a drum brake designed to provide drag, but not enough braking force to provide reasonable stopping distances.
Dynamic brakes work by sending the current generated by the motor(s) into a resistor network (typically fan cooled on locomotives).
Great Video! 👍😀👍
I have a cheap ebike kit installed. I am thinking of upgrading the controller and maybe add a LCD display, there are so many out there, could you talk about all the features thats available in these controllers and LCD. what to choose and to avoid, power ratings, etc.
How about using super caps for regen braking? Would that be more efficient?
Supercapacitors allow a much higher percentage of regenerative braking power to be captured, batteries aren't good when a sudden high amp charge is applied, supercapacitors have the ability to take a high amperage charge as well as push out high amps.
Hello, I think I have a good question... is it possible to add only electric brake without it being regenerative? I think so, it would have to be achieved in a diy plan, a way to connect the phases of the motor all together and at the same time that they are disconnected from the controller so as not to make a short circuit, because if you join the phases of the motor, it offers resistance or it brakes a lot even depends on the motor that it is, from my experience, the more amps the motor holds, the more it will brake, maybe connecting relays in parallel in each phase and then another relay that connects the 3 phases when pressing a momentary button, brake the engine and work, what do you think? Thank you
Good work
I’m looking to add regen to my 1st upgrade and am adding to a 2007 Specialized Hardrock Pro which I added hydraulic disc brakes to when I added an all in one. I frequently pull a trailer with groceries laundry you name it up to almost 200 pounds. Never had a problem but I’d like some more stopping power. Not really interested in regaining any battery power that’s not important to me I’m more concerned about just that little boost of stopping it would give me is it going to be enough to notice? Or am I wasting my time building a new bike?
Can you explain and make video on how to integrate throttle on pedelec. I mean how to switch from pedal assist to "on demand assist" using throttle? Thanks
Can you explain the detailed connections of regen braking with hub motor!
Is regenerative braking hard on the motors though? If that motors go out on my scooter and I've wondered if it was due to regenerative braking and if I should just disable it and rely on the brake pads alone because of the expenses of a motor... Does it add more wear and tear on the motor?
Great Video...
hello, i really like your videos.
i have a e scooter with a 1500w motor 48v. when it breaks it makes up to 20a back in the battery witch has a 27ah capacity. is it not bad to charge it that fast?
or does it not matter because its only a couple of seconds?
thanks :-)
Did you ever make a trike e-bike and how do you make it stabler in a what's the most efficient to build