Is Topps Using Fake Patches?
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Game used jersey and patch cards are some of the most sought after and collected cards in the baseball card world. Baseball cards historically have significantly more game used jersey cards compared to other sports, but recently I saw a patch in a high end Dynasty set that concerned me. I did some digging on the card and I wanted to share my results. I also want to note that when I was looking for information on the card A LOT of people expressed their doubt that any of Topps game used cards were real. In this video I share my thoughts on Topps game used jerseys and more!
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Back in the 90s and 00s , you had authenticated game used jersey cards from Upper Deck. Now you have one mega monopoly, Fanatics, running the circus. They're cheap and don't care about authenticity. Look at the problems with player jerseys being see through practically. 🤦♂️
Not exactly true. Many of those were bought at auction houses so who knows how many of those are actually game used. That’s what started operation bullpen when mlb started their authentication system of the authenticators having to actually witness the jersey/baseball being used before they authenticate it. Most of the photos on those early relics are not game used as they just trusted the auction houses which most had very weak provenance. Stick to mlb authenticated relics with the hologram on it to be certain your patch is real.
2000 Upper Deck Pros and Prospects Autograph Jersey cards were an amazing release imo absolutely love them
😢😢😮😮
And all the fraudulent autos. Hmmm?????
Ummm have you looked at Panini lately?? They have had a monopoly for the longest time and don't even use actual jerseys they cut up walmart jerseys to be able to charge $750-$1250 a box of cards that is literally worth $35-$150 roi
Holiday is funny with the Santa or Elf cards. They state “the memorabilia is from nothing” 😂
Dude, props on the thumbnail 😂😂😂😂 I’m absolutely dying
Technically, if you interpret what the Topps claim on the game used cards in legal terms, it doesn’t specify the game used material was used by the player on the card.
I’ve had a suspicion that game used could mean that it was worn by a player or even a coach during a game, but very possibly not the same player that’s on the card. Who knows, it could be a relic from the 1st base coach’s jersey or the batboy for all we really know.
The next frontier of card releases: Ball Boy 1/1's.
I think its very likely thats the case.. people are being ripped off
@@foenix8094 yup game used undies with fresh skids
I've had this suspicion as well. I saw a Panini National Treasures AJ Smith-Shawver Auto Patch card that had a piece of a patch from the Braves final season at Turner field. Smith-Shawver would have been ~14 years old then and years away from being drafted. I'm sure Topps is doing the same thing. They say player worn or game worn, but it technically doesn't say it's the player pictured on the card. I really prefer the relics with MLB authentication stickers that can be traced to a specific event, but those are much more rare.
There’s a 2018 Flawless 1/1 card out there that claims to be a game used jerseys of Ruth, T Williams and J Robinson. Tell me someone in there right mind would cut up there jerseys to make a card…🤦🏽🤦🏽
Great video. Remember back in the early 2000s products like Donruss Classics and Leaf Certified not only stated game used but showed the actual jersey it was cut from on the back of the card.
I love those cards I have a few I kept for that specific purpose photos of the balls and jerseys in the playoff piece of the game set
I only got one of those I think from Donald Driver
Playoff absolute memorabilia was a great set
I remember watching the HR Derby, years ago. While the Derby was going on, many of the other players, the non-participants, were sitting around watching on the sidelines. I remember the cameras panning some of them, they had stacks of shoe boxes!! They were putting on and taking off the shoes!! Others had boxes of jerseys, also putting on and taking off!! No doubt these were later sold as "Game Worn", but seriously, were they??
I used to work security at the local utility's office building. The 'Site Captain" was a retired Marine. He told me his last post was at the US Capital. He was in charge of a small group of Marines who's job was to raise an American Flag, wait 30 seconds, lower and remove it with full military procedures. Attach another flag, and do it again. All day. These flags became gifts that Senators and Legislators would giveaway, others were sold, all believing, "This flag flew over the Capital"!! But did it really???
Yes. Yes, it flew over the Capitol. In the strictest definition of terms, that flag flew over the Capitol.
I mean, it's not the flag that inspired the National Anthem or nothing......
@@InsolentWill
Did it really? You just told me they put the flag up and flew it for 30 seconds, so sounds like it’s true to me.
I used to make these certificates overseas for different events etc and we never once lied about where one came from or where it flew. Many flags had been carried on targets by seals, flow in different helo’s, or flew over certain camps for a day. I would never put my name or have my commander sign something that stated this certain thing happened if it didn’t and I would think most others would do the same.
another company did the same thing they were actually event worn. the reason i know is a shop in my area was tasked at watching this and in one giant screw up that made it worse is they gave said player someone else jersey to put on and take off for there event worn jerseys.
Great content Scott, appreciate you bringing awareness to this subject. I actually have to disagree respectfully and state I came across a disappointing situation with '22 Topps Dynasty. As a Cards fan, I wanted to get Dynasty autos of Arenado/Goldy which I did in the set. However, when I looked closer at the patches I realized the primary color of the jersey was red. Most wouldn't see this as an issue however, the Cardinals haven't worn a red jersey in a regular season game since 1999. They do wear red during Spring Training and batting practice but not during an actual game. I felt misled and ended up selling those cards because I knew they weren't actually game worn patches in an expensive product which makes me think if they do this in Dynasty they are likely doing it in other products and with other teams misleading the collector on patches being game worn.
Capitalism at it's finest. Why buy expensive jerseys when you can buy cheap jerseys??
The MLB Authentication program is easily the best in sports. Literally a guy sits next to the dugout putting stickers on game used balls and other items. If you have doubts, buy the authenticated relics. Say what you want about Topps Now base relics, but they may be one of the best in the hobby for transparency. Looking forward to receiving the Jackson Chourio relic from the actual 2nd base he stole in his rookie debut.
Yup, love seeing the little mlb hologram on my patch 👍 only way to be 100% certain
Love Topps now!!
Yet another phenomenal video. I still remember you jumping on my channel when you were just starting out. I always knew your channel would be huge one day. Congrats man!
That’s funny that you put the Goldschmidt up at the end. I was bidding on that exact card. Such an absolute beauty 🤩
I got a patch card that said game worn material on the front, and from no specific game or event on the back. I was so confused. 😕
Topps used to catalog all game used material. I have cards of a basic relic that has exact date and game. They stopped doing it so they can get away with changing the verbage and still using fake jerseys. The date of a jersey and game is important for verification. I'm not sure how these companies do not have an agreement with players to buy a game used jersey a couple times a year. It wouldn't be that difficult. They are just cheap.😊
Stick to the Topps mlb authenticated patches with the little mlb hologram on it.
I can see it now "The sticker on the front of this card may or may not have been placed there by MLB" lol
I have an astros World Series card from a date of a game 7 that never happened …. Wondering how it was game worn from that game
Also, how do they control when players give away their jerseys after the game to a fan or player swap?
Do they have to get permission to do that?
Solid video. What a sham with these random pieces of cloth. The original UD game used cards talked about getting “closer to the game”. Too bad.
Love the video Scotty. This is the exact reason why I am not a fan of jersey cards. I remember when Donruss put a picture of the jersey it was cut from and usually had the date associated with the game. I trust those more than the current mass produced stuff. Fanatics needs to go old school like that. It may cost a little more to produce so they can cut back the overproduction of relics and make the base cards worth more. Everyone deserves to have an authentic relic for what they spend their hard earned money…
I miss when you would get excited to pull a mem card back in the early 2000's . Not only were they game worn but some would even tell you what game it was worn in. The hobby is so big now that its just impossible for there to be that many game worn jerseys especially with all the different releases throughout the year.
You make great videos bro! I always learn a lot from you! Thank you
I am glad I am collecting hockey cards. Upper Deck is doing a solid job with game used cards. And on the back, they make it really clear that the jersey was game worn by the featured player. I don’t trust Topps (and especially Panini) with their descriptions on the back. If they had nothing to hide, they could easily copy the text from Upper Deck for their cards. But they don’t - and I am sure they have their own reasons for staying vague…
I always say this same thing. Glad I’m 95% a hockey collector now as Upper Deck does the best job at making sure as much as possible is actually game worn.
Right! Feels like props should’ve been given in this video to UD and the hockey card market.
Upper deck doesn't do as good of a job as topps when it comes to autographs. They are the same as panini . They don't guarantee the player signs the card in front of a rep. The player can sign the cards from their home with no supervision and ship them back to the company. Who knows who's signing these cards
I need a jersey with Walmart right across it to wear at card shows.
Found a Nolan Gorman RPA #/10 from Dynasty with a purple patch. Could be from a batting glove? I'm not sure I've seen any Cardinals players wear purple before, but it says below the patch, "Game Used Memorabilia." Hopefully, they weren't playing the Rockies that day, and mixed up a Nolan Jones patch, in the Nolan Gorman pile.
It's from a batting glove, there's a bunch of those listed online.
@@garygordon3075 There can't be a bunch of them, it's numbered out of 10. But I figured it was a batting glove, nothing else has any purple on the uniform. Just kind of weird, most other players wear team colors.
Coffee and a fresh Scottie video☕️ good stuff brotha!
There’s always one thing people gloss over. They focus on whether it’s game worn or not, but they don’t dive into WHO wore it.
Card companies stopped using the players name in the COA/description for a reason. They can buy cheap bats/jerseys, slap them into cards with Babe Ruth on the front, then be vague in their description and they’re legally safe. They’re not lying, it’s game used, just not by the player pictured. It’s all a sham.
Back in the day they would list the name. For example: “worn by Jackie Robinson in an OMLB game” VS “worn in an MLB game”.
Hell, some of the sets back in the day pictured the items that were cut up on the back of the card.
If you’re going to collect GU cards, stick to older sets with detailed descriptions on the back.
Having the same company make the cards and uniforms to me makes it more easy for Fanatics to cut corners and people will trust them more. They control the entire process.
The absolute worst possible thing for any collector’s hobby is for the monster size companies to eat up a bunch of the smaller companies. Not only does that give them price control of the hobby, but it completely limits the options for collectors. Apmex has done that in the Precious metals market, and they’re ruining that market by charging inordinate prices.
One thing I appreciate with Topps is that they will distinguish between both player-worn and game-used in the same subset (e.g., 1989 insert jersey cards in Series One).
If anything that makes me a little more cynical about all of this. It's possible that Fanatics has introduced controls that allow them to confirm that the player on the card actually wore the item (per the disclaimer on "player worn" cards), but then where does that leave us with the "game used" cards? The "game used" cards require the collector to make the connection between what is on the front of the card (the player's name, image, and "game worn" text) with the disclaimer on the back, but the disclaimer doesn't actually specify that the player on the card wore it, let alone during a game.
The rookie swatches that come out in Panini's draft picks set, for instance, comes out (with a "game worn" jersey piece inside) before they ever even play their first game. I thought about this when I pulled a Mac Jones draft picks rookie patch card. Nice expose
Good video. Important distinction. Topps recently did player and match worn only for international soccer products as well which I thought was a particularly cool feat of theirs.
I was wondering if national treasures do this too. I saw a Kurt Warner patch card and it said game used. The problem was the color and font on the patch was from the new Rams uniform LOL
Topps photoshopped all of Jung Hoo Lee's rookie cards in Tribute and Bowman. They used old KBO pictures of him and photoshopped the Giants uniform on him.
I remember years ago Upper Deck got into some heat over game-used patches when one of their purchasers admitted paying unbelievably low prices for jerseys the company obviously knew were not “game used”.
I took apart a J-Rod Flawless card. The piece of memorabilia had Seattle written on it, not Julio Rodriguez. That means it could've come from any Seattle jersey.
Panini Xr had some cool ones where they put the actual game on the card.
I liked when they would put a photo of the actual jersey in which the relic was cut from on the back
Hey scottie. Can you do a vid breaking down 24' Heritage base cards and non-numbered card print runs. Thanks.
I thought the only game used patches were the ones with the holo with the code you can pop in to see what game it was from
I love me an old school relic that actually shows the item it came from. I think it would be difficult, just not impossible. Time and focus would have to be put into it and it would be an absolute logistical nightmare.
This is why I prefer to collect memorabilia that can be photomatched. I still buy cards but I don’t go crazy over game used patch cards.
Man I always learn a lot from Scott's videos
i remember when $1.00 packs were expensive
Glad we have these vidoes
i remember some years ago upper deck was inserting cards with 4 signatures of long dead hall of famers. autograph experts were saying only 2 or 3 of them were real.
If Panini and Topps both say “not from any specific game or event” why would we assume Topps is using game worn when we know Panini is not? They both say the same thing? I am confused
My favorite "relic" card, came from a pack of Triple play"Baseball. It's a piece of an "official" bat! Not from a certain player, team, or even maker of bat! Just throw any old one in the wood chipper!
A misprint of a jersey/bat seems more interesting anyway. I have a manny ramirez card that says game used bat and it has a random jersey patch in it.
I remember when relics first started dropping, even as a kid, I wondered about the authenticity.
Up until about the 2010s, they were all game used.
That thumbnail is hilarious! 😅
One of the players told me when topps met with him they had him put on and take off jerseys. So important he put it on for a second
Jersey Fusion is one of the few that has a true way to source the patches they used in the product.
I've suspected most memorabilia cards are fake for years. The NHL solved that problem by having companies purchase official merchandise from MeiGray. "Game worn" is even questionable, as Tom Brady could show up at a game, put on a Patriots jersey s a spectator for just five minutes, take it off and PRESTO!, you have a game worn jersey, only Tom didn't wear the jersey while playing in the game.
To me it seems like a lot of collectors don't care (or maybe don't even know to care) if a patch is game used or not. I personally do. I say this because I've seen National Treasure RPA cards of the same player sell for more than a flawless. Example being a Payton Pritchard RPA NT #'d to 99 with a fake patch and on card auto selling for $620. His flawless RPA #'d to 25 with real game used patch and also an on card auto sold for exactly $300. When you compare the overall card count between brands, flawless also has less cards. NT has #"d to 99, 75, 50, 25, 10, 1 etc and also vertical/horizontal versions. Flawless just has #'d to 25, 15, 10, 5, and 1. Personally I'd rather have no patch than a "not associated" patch.
That's why I only collect patches prior to 2010. I just don't trust any card company now a days, even Topps. I don't really care about modern stuff because looking back, the last 5 years will be viewed worst than the 80's and 90's for junk wax
I see people post cards all the time with material that's from retail jerseys. Especially laundry tags. That first card you show is perfect example. The brady is a retail laundry tag.
Up until 2005 or so, card companies changed the language on the back of the cards to be more ambiguous to protect themselves. You're sure what the truth is since then!
Need some hockey love in this video. Pacific did it best with hockey in the early 00s. Game-worn with season dated on back. Miss those days.
The writing on the back of Topps jersey cards never says what game they are from, unless they have the holograms they used to put on Topps Jersey cards. It could be from an all start game, WBC Classic game, spring game, who really knows.
I even pulled a piece of bat relic in heritage and on front it says game worn and back says not from any specific game or event smdh 😂🎉
That is an absolutely elite thumbnail.
Ty is not quite correct, Flawless Basketball is the only set where ALL patches are game worn. Other sets have game worn patches too... just not consistently across the whole product run. For example you can get game worn swatches of veterans from products like crown royale, court kings, spectra etc. but the rookies will typically always be non-associated material.
I have seen a picture of James wood wearing a many machado jersey that someone who knows his dad said topps told him to put it on so they could cut it up and see it was player worn
I've thought for a while that most relics are fake, which is why I don't get thrilled when pulling one, It's frustrating but not as bad as Panini Points lol
Does a sandlot game count?
Still surprised that the FTC was not involved so far.
What if they wore the jersey to a honor ceremony at a game? Could be what's happening
Game worn and not from a specific game means the "game" was called 'put your hand in this box of jerseys so we can say you wore it'.
Source: a current MLB player.
It could have been the player put on the jersey and then went to take a dump .
“Player worn” doesn’t even mean it was even WORN by the player on the card. It could have been worn by ANY player, even minor leaguers...
Panini could have just made fewer relic cards, which would have allowed them to only use game worn and made them much more desirable to collectors.
That was an option.
You have to look at the possibility that there is another scenario and that is that on the rookie patches they may not even be their patch it is possible that they used a game used memorabilia but from somebody else and just not the featured player on the card you could be buying a rookie patch and it belong to the pitching coach or a veteran player still game used just not the profile player and that is why they put that on the back of the card to protect themselves just in case you were to crack the card and it ends up being not that person's Jersey or memorabilia
excellent detective work
I’m not much of a collector of relic/jersey cards. However I do prefer that the player actual wore the jersey. I’m not concerned about what game it was worn. I do agree,to catalog every detail of the jersey would be difficult and unprofitable. Most of my relic cards come from opening packs. Great video
ya i agree with you but how do we know it wasnt a different player or coach wearing the jersey . It feels like the patch could be from anyone
@@Matt-vh9vs 100% agree. I rarely buy these type of cards. Just too many unknowns
Of course it's game used..they were wearing it while playing Candy Crush!! 🎉
I don't think topps nor panini has had a clue where this memorabilia comes from for awhile now. I think its why the early and mid 2000.s stuff is starting to get premiums now. topps has had issues with memorabilia cards since 2009 with the whole babe ruth topps tribute debacle
Different sport, but Kyle at the Wax Museum Podcast does a deep dive into tracking game used relics against auctions. He has some great methods that might help people interested in this topic.
Great video man.
Underrated thumbnail
i love the Topps Holiday and snagged a ssp Jordan Walker out of it couple of weeks ago! Thanks for the info Scottie B!!
I’ve had a few cards sent back ungraded by SGC that were issued by Panini for reasons being “skeptical patch”
its from a jersey off the shelf, fanatics is not using actual game used jerseys. The way Topps produces these autos and jersey cards is horrible, Leaf is honestly doing a better job!
My panini "Studio" Luis Gil specifically states "the enclosed player-worn/used material and autograph are guaranteed by Panini America, inc" so knowing this, certain panini cards are considered game used or player worn. So to say all Panini is like this isnt true at all. However with my Panini Immaculate Jasson Dominguez auto/jersey states: "the enclosed authentic memorabilia is NOT from any specific game" so yes of course Panini is doing it, but not on all cards, i.e. with the Panini Studio card
Topps however, ever since fanatics took over, i have not seen hardly any game used or player worn authenticity guarantee on back of card...like those "MLB first" patch cards, not sure if i agree with the hype.
Leaf is legit not fancy cards but they are real
@@user-wp8mw7fz3r oh yes I 10000% agree. In fact a lot of players cards come out first with Leaf before it even hits topps. People should know a few things that make a card legit..one, if the card is numbered, 2, if the card has an auto, is it an "on card" auto and not some sticker. 3rd, if it has a piece of a jersey, is it a game worn jersey? these 3 things are what should determine the value of the card..of course the card needs to look cool, but I could care less if the jersey was something hanging on the shelf at dicks sporting goods...LOL!
@@sunny8784 yeah I could care less about a piece of paper towel they use for these "relic cards" it's the numbered cards and on card autos I'm after.
If it just says game worn material and nothing else, it was most likely not worn by the player on the card
250,000 Justin H card, lol!
Pretty much where I don't get too excited on patches/relics. (yes...I can appreciate the nice ones...just don't chase them)
I will say Panini is better on vets vs. rookies. But they are definitely "who cares...they will still buy it" on rookie patches the past few years.
You could literally throw a DHgate jersey on Tom Brady for a second and call it player worn. And sadly technically it wouldn't be a lie
That Durren jersey could have been anything from a store bought Durren Jersey, to a jersey of some other random player from history of the Pistons. Could have been from a jersey of a player on a completely different team. Also could have been a throwback Bullets jersey. Or it could be the Clippers. Not exactly a dearth of NBA teams with red white and blue as their colors. And you can't tell of the red is the lettering or main jersey.
Hell, it could be from a completely different sport.
Better than a white napkin I suppose.
What do you think about Toppsnow?
I stay away from any cards that are game used, game worn, player worn....but the cards look nice!!!
Won't dip into the ones that are game worn, but on the "not from specific game" or "player worn" heard from someone who ran into Vlad Jr at a bar in spring training where he was trying on jersey after jersey while sitting there getting them a their "player worn" material. The "mistakes" suck, and is rough when it is a signed relic card like the 1/1 you are talking about. As far as the relic only cards, I think they are junk anyway for the most part.
I quit collecting Material cards unless the are autographed for this reason. The only way to stop panini and topps from doing this, is to quit buying them.
Hey, I bought a Bowman’s first Mookie Betts the other day. Think that was a good investment.
Not for nothing but I do really miss Upper Deck. They never pulled these stunts like Topps and Panini are doing.
This has been going on for at least a decade
anyone know the name of lady in thumbnail pic?
Tiffany Gomas
I am not even 5 sec into the video and noticed the Mitchell and Ness uniform 😬
I don't mind random patches, just as long as it is stated.
I have always hated patches & 90% of them receive go in the Goodwill Box. Topps need to stick to autos & scrap relics
I only trust Upper Deck when it comes to real game used jersey/patches worn. 💯
Wow 😮😮😮
The more concerning question is who is paying $250,00 for Justin Herbert. 😂
I ran into a similar issue with Leaf Trinity Ezequiel Tovar RPAs and discussed some theories about what I think is really going on with "player worn" vs. "game used" - which was clearly misrepresented. The patches were all Mets, even though Tovar has only ever been associated with the Rockies. Not only that, but the cuts were from prior seasons or events that no current player could have ever worn! czcams.com/video/c8tI7Jti8EY/video.htmlsi=8FLdxAcrNfC87rhT
Panini did this with UFC Immaculate as well. Jumbo patches with a certain fighter but the back says the swatch is not from that specific fighter. Misleading and bs in my opinion. So if I got a Sean Omalley Jumbo patch it could be from some random dude who trained with him which is still giving them too much credit. In a 500 dollar plus box no less.
Proud of you. No mention of Mookie Betts. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉