HEPD80 Whole House Surge Suppressor Installation
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- čas přidán 17. 11. 2020
- This video documents the installation of a Square D HEPD80 whole house surge suppressor.
**WARNING!!!**
Lethal voltages are present on the two 120V rails which run down the center of the box, and at the main breaker. SWITCH OFF the main breaker before working on the service panel, and stay clear of the mains. The mains cannot be deactivated unless the meter is pulled by qualified personnel. if you are uncomfortable working around the inside of the service panel, STOP, do not attempt! Have qualified personnel install it for you.
Not gonna lie, because I know you know what you are doing, but seeing that wedding ring and wristwatch while working on that panel sent shivers down my spine.
I was thinking the same thing.
I would definitely remove them.
Impressive response time to questions.
Excellent video.
Excellent video. Thks guys
Should be installed closest to the main incoming power is at the top.
Yes it should
There is no specification in the instruction sheet as to the location of the Suppressor, and rightly so. An incoming surge will propagate down the rails in nanoseconds, so the location is immaterial in that regard. What is important is the length of wires from the suppressor to the neutral and ground bus. The wires should be as short as possible according to the instruction sheet so they present a minimal inductive load. The supressor was installed according to the instructions, however you are welcome to your own opinion.
Review figure 3 of the manual. The instructions don't explicitly tell you so but you can review the drawings.
@@thomashybiske5399 Currently I only have spots open for an additional circuit breaker in my sub-panel. Is it ok to install the suppressor in the sub-panel or is that too far from the main incoming power? If it is too far it won't be too much trouble to move a couple if items over to the sub-panel. Thanks
@@jimlaidley4826 Jim, I would not place the HEPD-80 in a sub panel. You didn't mention how far the sub panel is from the service entrance, but I believe that ANY length of supply line would render the suppressor ineffective. A spike or surge from a lightning strike contains high frequency components. It is absolutely essential to provide a low inductance path from the two 120V rails in the panel to Earth Ground bus bar. This is why the instructions say to use short pigtails to the suppressor, and to use no tight bends. A length of cable from the main panel to the sub panel will look like a large inductor to the surge and prevent adequate shunting to Earth Ground. If you find that making room in the main panel is difficult, you use an existing 30A double pole breaker and slide the wires from the suppressor under the screw being used. I used basically a blank 30A breaker because I've got oodles of room in my panel. If you share an existing breaker, just switch off the breaker when you work on it, be cautious working around the exposed supply rails in the panel, and stay away from the mains coming in from the meter. They cannot be deactivated without pulling the meter.
Quick Question - you installed a separate 30amp double pole stating you did not have one, but the top right circuit that you said was 220V appears to be a double pole 30amp. Is there a reason you could not use that one? Thanks!
Hi Jeff. Yes, could have used an existing breaker, but my panel has so much open room that I used a separate breaker for the surge arrestor. As I mentioned here in text or in the video, the breaker is merely used to hook the HEPD-80 to the service rails. Also, without looking, I don't know if there was a convenient knockout where that existing breaker is located. But, you CAN use an existing breaker if you wish. Just remember though, if you take that leg offline for any reason, you loose your surge protection as well.
Thank you for the video. Couple of questions though. I wanted to install in my panel but my top 2 are a 15 and a 20amp on one side and 2 gfci 20 amps on the other. Any reason why they say 20 Amp minimum breaker? Was looking at the 25ka model but you have the 80ka. Why one over the other? Never got a lightning surge ever since last week. Lost a few electronics and been researching this stuff now. Didnt know this stuff even existed.
Thanks for writing. The 80kA was the one that was available, and that's the simple reason I used it. As far as the choice of breaker rating, the old instructions referred to using a 15A minimum breaker. But later the instruction were changed to reflect the use of a 20A breaker. As I mentioned in the video, I had no 20 amp, double pole breakers near where I mounted the surge suppressor, yet had plenty of open slots in the panel. So I bought a new breaker and installed it close to the mounting location of the suppressor. Let me stress that regardless of what anyone tells you, it is not necessary to place the suppressor close to where the service enters the panel. You can place it anywhere in the panel. A surge propagates down the rails at perhaps 80% the speed of light. Placing it the top or at the very bottom has no bearing on it functioning correctly. What matters is the to keep the leads from the suppressor as short and direct as possible.
@thomashybiske5399 Thank you for clearing that up. Would be a higher job to move breakers around. Just going to grab the one Square D makes that plugs right into the panel. Thank you again for clearing that up.
I have a couple of questions: 1) Does the surge suppressor protect all the circuits in the panel when installed in that position, or just the ones below it? and 2) It the HEPD80 rated for installation on an outdoor shutoff panel? Thanks.
The HEPD80 protects both 120V rails in the panel, so any breaker that is attached to either rail regardless of where it is located in the panel is protected.
Product information says it's rated for indoor or outdoor use.
@@thomashybiske5399 Thanks for the quick reply.
Yi was reading and it stated to install at the top of the rails closest to the main power source
Was there any reason why you did not install the SPD higher? Seemed ideal to knockout right next to the breakers, after all, you knew the breaker spaces were next to the one above. And, no need to bend wires, wires would be shorter, and the path to ground and the neutral would be way shorter as well.
I do like that the video is straight to the point and no time is lost showing how to screw a nut or make a hole. If anyone needs to learn that then they have no business inside an electric panel.
The reason it is mounted where it is was that on this particular panel there were no knockouts above the one I used. If you watch just beyond the introduction, there is a pretty good shot of the inside panel side where it shows no further knockouts.
@@thomashybiske5399 Thanks for the prompt response. I see, but perhaps use a drill step bit or a knockout punch. I installed a transfer switch for a generator and those boxes do not have any, so I used a step drill bit for a Type 1 SPD I installed in it (I have at the distribution panel but anything from outside would fry the circuits in the transfer box before hitting it so I added a Type 1 to tackle it before it harms my transfer switch.
And, my punch set for the conduits of course but you can get a small punch kit for less than $25 at Harbor Freight and it is super cool to use and the holes are pristine clean and perfect. Perhaps because I am OCD and retired, so I have time to play, but it would drive me crazy, LOL
This has been heavily debated and more studies are showing it is irrelevant where you place it as long as it is there. Same as putting your higher amp breakers near the main it doesn't matter anymore.
@@LJFirearms Yet, current and voltage do not behave the same. It is important not to have tight bends and is even more important to twist them because it matters to voltage. A breaker controls current and if amps go above the limit it just shuts it down. The purpose is different also. A voltage tsunami is another story, it branches out everywhere and amp breakers do not stop it You can have thousands of volts and itty bitty amps like in tasers, if they would trip then the suppresor is useless because it stops it from reaching it. Not heavily debated, not at all. Higher amps breakers locations are not relevant anymore because the buss bars are fat and can take a lot of juice without creating resistance, that is another story and it only works because the standards were raised so manufacturers account for beefier conductors and precisely in case loads are constant and high..
Cool
Thanks, pal.
Thank you. That was very well explained. Duke Energy gets $7 / month plus $30 installation fee. Wondering if it’s worth it, rather than just buying my own?
Depends on what guarantees Duke Energy gives you if it fails. HEPD80 goes for 185, so anything longer than 22 ~ 24 months, and the device is paid off if you buy/install. Plus, most companies will install the devices they want, (I have one protecting my AC, but didn't get to pick the model) and not necessarily the ones you may think are the best.
@@coffee5rr its 86 on amazon lol. god no thats not worth it stop
It's worth it. Duke with insure your items upto a certain amount. We have the whole house protection including inside wiring and water heater.
Do you have to dedicate a double pole breaker specifically for this or can it be attached to your current double pole breaker that is powering large appliances. ty
You may use an existing an existing double pole breaker. Old instruction sheets reference using a 20A minimum breaker. New instruction sheets now have 30A as the preferred rating. I had plenty of room in my panel, so I used a dedicated 30A breaker for my HEPD80.
An existing double pole breaker that's already in use feeding another circuit can also be used to attach this SPD as well,,, BUT it's supposed to be one specifically designed that allows two wires to attach to each breaker. If the breaker isn't designed to be doubled up on, (keep your thoughts out of the gutter here), you are supposed to replace it with one that is. As far as adding a seperate stand alone breaker for this SPD, that is only to allow for troubleshooting, replacement, and/or resetting without having to shut off the whole panel or the circuit you are pigging backing off of in that case. It's just a convenience if this SPD has its own stand alone breaker. You can also attach this SPD directly to the lugs on each buss and have no circuit breaker at all. But in that case you would need to shut off the main breaker to reset or replace it. That is the only drawback for not having a seperate, stand alone double pole breaker. This information is only for the HEPD50 and HEPD80 models. I have no idea with reguards to other SPDs from this manufacturer or any others.
@@thomashybiske5399 A 30 amp breaker is the maximum recommended. Not the preferred. The preferred is still 20 amps. This information comes directly from my communication with the manufacturers technical support staff. Since this unit can be connected directly to the busses with no circuit breaker at all, then the circuit breakers rating, if one is used, is actually irrelevant. But my last sentence is only my opinion. But, if I'm going to install a stand alone double pole breaker, then I'm going to use one rated for 20 amps.
@@davidsine4390 I love that you're an electrician and your last name is Sine :))) Cosined, Geoff lol
Did you mount yours on a outdoor panel?
No, it's mounted to the side of the main (and in my case, only) breaker panel.
Can anyone explain how it works? When there is a surge what does this physically do as throwing the 30A (in his example) doesn't turn off the other systems. Does it take the hit for the team so to speak?
It does. It takes the hit for the entire panel. The HEPD-80 is designed to protect L-L, L-N, and L-G. Think of the 30A breaker as a means to connect the surge suppressor to the each of the 120V rails in your panel. Contrary to what has been said in remarks, it does not matter where the suppressor is connected in the panel. The surge entering the panel propagates down the rails in microseconds, so its position in the panel is of no consequence. What is important is to make the wire leads from the device to the breakers as short as possible. The devices used in the HEPD-80 will take repeated hits of 10kA, but will sacrifice itself with higher surges. The two green pilot lights will indicate a functioning unit. If one or both lights are out, the unit needs replacement.
@@thomashybiske5399 Can you connect the HEPD 80 directly to the lugs on each bus and avoid needing any breaker at all. I don't have any double pole 20 or 30 amp breakers in my panel and and my panel is full. Thanks for the video.
@@davidsine4390 The breaker(s) is merely a way of connecting the HEPD80 to each of the 120VAC supply rails. I have seen instructions specifying a 20 amp breaker along with the instructions supplied with mine specifying a 30 amp breaker. I suppose if you have another method you could try that, but I always follow my personal Prime Directive which is: "Always do what the manufacturer says to do", along with the reciprocal, "Don't do what the manufacturer doesn't say to do." Follow that rule, and you can't go wrong.
@@thomashybiske5399 I contacted Schneider. Connecting either the HEPD50 or the HEPD80 directly to the lugs in the load center without any circuit breaker at all is acceptable because it's a type 1 device and therefore considered "no load". The reason a seperate 20 or 30 amp breaker is recommended is simply to allow the user an ability to isolate the surge protector for troubleshooting and resetting only as a convenience. If it's connected directly to the lugs without a breaker, you have to shut down the main in order to troubleshoot, reset, or replace the unit in that event. In a commercial application especially, having to shut down everything via the main might be problematic and/or extremely inconvenient. As far as connecting the unit to an alreay existing double pole breaker that's already wired for another circuit, that is also acceptable, PROVIDED the double pole breaker is certified to accept two wires to each breaker terminal and not just one. NEC allows two users to one circuit breaker lug, provided the breaker is specifically designed for that. It's possible, but not at all likely, that local codes may not allow two wires to each breaker reguardless of breaker design. As far as the surge protector itself though, it doesn't care. Thanks for the quick reply. Cheers.
Also, all the wires for this SPD are number 12 AWG, so it makes sense if you're going to install it using a double pole breaker, that the recommended breaker size would be 20 Amps. Also, another possible consideration when deciding which knockout to install it on, use one that's deep so the unit will sit back far enough so as to not interfere with the load center's cover. That may or not be a problem depending how the cover sits on the load center.
Literature calls for a 20 amp max breaker, not min.
Will this work with 1 circuit breaker?
You can, but you're only using half the device. The other black wire would remain unconnected. Also, the breaker that you use should ideally be rated at 20 amps minimum.
It would only protect half of your circuits.
Phase 1-paase2-boring as hell but infoavitave
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