Why Ford And VW Shut Down Their Multi-Billion Dollar Self-Driving Project
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Ford invested $1 billion in self-driving startup Argo AI in 2017, and Volkswagen joined with a $2.6 billion investment 2 years later. It was an attempt to match rivals such as Uber, Tesla and Google. At its height, Argo AI was reportedly valued at $12.4 billion. But in 2022 Argo AI shut down. Ford said the it didn't attract new investors, and that profitability was "a long way off". Both automakers are spending big in electrification - $50 billion in Ford's case and more than three times that in VW's case. VW still pursued autonomous driving projects for commercial uses, and Ford focused on more modest L2 and L3 driver assistance technology.
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
01:21- Argo A.I.
04:14 - Why did it fail?
08:24 - Mobility doesn't pay
10:33 - The future
Producer: Robert Ferris
Editor: Jacob Harrell
Senior Managing Producer: Tala Hadavi
Graphics: Jason Reginato, Christina Locopo, Mallory Brangan
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Why Ford And VW Shut Down Their Multi-Billion Dollar Self Driving Project - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I instantly lost respect for this guy when he actually said Tesla's self driving is "a joke". And almost immediately after goes on to praise GM's CEO. I suspect something fishy going on here
Mary Barra is the joke. HTH did she end up getting hired? She has ZERO engineering experience.
Give me the money GM, I did my part to say Tesla’s FSD is a joke. Very funny!
"You did it Mary, you led and it matters." LOL.
Right. Money under the table.
Who is behind all of these negative Tesla fake news campaigns? They did it on Super Bowl, here, and many more.
As a robotics engineer, I see two very different technology stratagies. You can either focus on really good performance in a limited area, then expand that area to scale (what everyone else is doing), or focus on decent performance in any area, then improve that performance everywhere (what Tesla is doing.) Understanding this difference is critical to understanding why all the other L4/5 efforts are failing. They look great in their geofenced areas with custom high-res maps, but can't generalize. They didn't anticipate the "long-tail" of challenging circumstances encountered in real diving.
Tesla isn't even L3 and won't be anytime soon. They got beaten by Mercedes to this milestone. In Germany Mercedes offers its L3 functionality on all the Autobahn network. Doesn't look too geofenced to me.
@@timbehrens9678 The thing most people don't realize is that L4 is not always better than L2 as Dan's explaining in his comment. I'm not talking in terms of the definitions of the terms L2 and L4 here. Rather, about the realities of implementation of a L4 solution using Lidar (vs) an L2 solution using cameras+radar only. People just see the number 4 and think 4 > 2, so Waymo better than Tesla. But in reality, the L4 solution can't handle the scale that Tesla has currently. As the comment above pointed out, there's a tradeoff between scalability and reliability.
Also, please dont bring up Merc. I'm sure you saw an article saying they have "L3" and applied the same logic (3 > 2). Did you see their capabilities in the video they put up. It's pathetic. But time will tell soon, since they're starting their operations in the US, whether it's better than what Tesla provides with all their vehicles (Autopilot)
@@timbehrens9678understand the difference between regulatory ability versus actual ability. Mercedes’ L3 ability is a joke; the restrictions are beyond laughable.
I agree, but I would lump Tesla in with all the other failing systems. The technical challenge of true self driving has been vastly underestimated. I was a little surprised by this CNBC video representing the failures as business decisions rather than being caused by realizations of the technical challenges ahead. I really believe some kind of artificial intelligence is needed for level 4 and above (as opposed to 'automation' or, as I think of it, trying to write code to cover all eventualities and scenarios....to bludgeon the system into working through coding). An ability to solve novel problems (something humans are actually very good at) is required. Tesla is not even close to this.
@@chriswright9096 By that definition, since all the other companies use techniques like MCTS and Neural-net based path planning, no company is. Not even Waymo.
I recently had the opportunity to ride in a Waymo self-driving car for the first time in downtown Phoenix and I must say, it completely blew my mind. The ride arrived just three minutes after I ordered it and there was no driver or supervisor in the car, it was just me and the vehicle. The instructions were simple and clear - I used the app to open the door and start the ride. I also had the option to pull over at any time or change my destination if needed. At one point, the car had to make an unprotected left turn from a small street onto a busy one with a stop sign, and it did so with grace. I understand that Waymo uses Lidar and can only operate in certain environments, but nevertheless, the experience was truly mind-blowing. It felt like the future had finally arrived!
That's crazy I've never heard of them (I live in Tampa). Didn't know there was any company other than Tesla to essentially monetize some form of driverless cars given all the concerns and problems.
You sounds more like a bot paid off by waymo to advertise for them
the future is here.
Yeah, too bad they're geofenced and can only operate in limited areas
I love this Sam Abuelsamid guy. I work for Ford in PD. This guy is a flat out a hater. Tesla's system is way better than any Ford Level 2 system. Give me a break, buddy. I obviously don't care if someone is anti-Tesla, but not sure you retain much credibility in the matter when you say things like he did in this video. Compare it to what Waymo is doing, don't sit there no better than anything else out there.
My wife and I have a 2020 Tesla Model 3, dual-motor, long range with the full self driving option. Living in the Black Hills of South Dakota I use the FSD for all of my highway driving and frequently in town traffic. As you may know, I need to keep one hand on the steering wheel and always monitor the FSD's driving. It is not perfect, not yet, but for highway driving, it is great. Two summers ago I was returning from Deadwood, South Dakota on the north-south Highway 385. It was about two weeks prior to the Sturgis Rally. The Tesla was in cruise mode with full self driving engaged..
My speed was a steady 6o MPH and the Tesla was in the center of the lane. My right hand was on the steering wheel and the speed was a constant 60 MPH and I was in a long straight stretch About half-way between Deadwood and my turn at highway 44 I noticed a group of motorcycles coming toward me. As a former motorcyclist my thought was "boy, they are really bunched-up".
When the motorcycles got very close, I was slammed into my driver's side door. I was startled and then noticed that the Tesla was now riding on the right white line. The car had moved over about six feet in the "blink of an eye". The only explanation I have is that the front camera saw a motorcycle cross the center line and took evasive action. Autodrive may have saved my life.
So when "experts" say that Tesla's full self-driving is _____ (whatever), they do not have the real facts. In the future, hopefully your comments will be part of your embarrassment.
Beautiful comments. Thank you for sharing your experience
Anecdotal evidence at the finest
+Phil Nichols Keep coping...
well there have been more than one phantom braking incidents too
Nice. The single stack has come with lots of improvements. I used to think it was going to take a leap in ai tech to make it work, but Tesla is doing it the hard way and it’s starting to pay off. I haven’t had any phantom breaking in almost a year, so that’s drastically improved as well. I’m glad Tesla is conservative and when in doubt, slows down. As they improve their recognition it seems to have all but stopped.
Love the black hills. I lived in Custer when I was in HS.
If you ever felt useless, remember that this company was worth $12,400,000,000 dollars and never got anywhere.
Not everyone wants to be on the side because fear of failure!! New technology is hard, but this setback will help them or someone!
@@akira28shima32Autonomous private vehicles are not needed. They're frivolous. We need mass transit.
@@kentstallard6512 Of course. But do you trust your politicians with these projects without being years and billions over budget?? California are years and billions and billions over budget with their “high speed “ train. I am quite sure millions goes to these politicians from the billions over budget!
@@akira28shima32 Then elect better politicians...
Kalo DIRUPIAHKAN jadi 185 Triliun 😅
Damn, the hate on Tesla by CNBC is real
According to musk we were supposed to have self driving cars years ago.
Most people hate being lied to.
Yeah that liar… solving the most difficult technological hurdle in history should always arrive right on time.
Media hates Tesla bc they dont pay for ads
I understand that musk always over promise, but having Tesla at the bottom? For real?
Tesla's AI/autonomous technology is garbage.
Their innovation in electric cars and manufacturing technology is excellent.
It makes sense to trash talk them here.
This video will not age well.
Well Sam's bit at 12:20 certainly isn't.
Haha, yep. Put it in a museum one day.
@@spacey22 Amazing how he can work in this field and not have a clue. We'll find out soon who is the true joke.
no such thing as well or not, cepuxuax, say, can sya any nmw s perfx
The guy that said Tesla’s system was a joke clearly doesn’t own the car and hasn’t tried it. He also said at the end that he expected Argo to be there at the end of the decade. Dumb analysts barely know anything real.
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Agree!
He's a Guidehouse Inside analyst who produce the infamous "Execution vs Strategy" ranking, of course they're gonna criticize Tesla.
As for the ranking, how is Mobileye, a company pursuing very similar strategy as Tesla, ranked near the top while Tesla is at the bottom? Yeah, the ranking is a joke.
Tesla fan boy alert ⚠️
@@Rust_Rust_Rust yep! I own one so I know. Tesla hater alert 🚨
CNBC hates Tesla bash them every time they get the chance
no ads = no fun
If the FSD is so great, why Tesla isn't declaring it as a L3 system?
They should get rid of Sam. People can’t take CNBC seriously anymore.
@@timbehrens9678 Again with the 3 > 2 argument and regurgitation in the comment section.
@@timbehrens9678 because they are still treating it as a beta. Why they call it "FSD Beta". The name is their future goal, not what it is now. Many of the things it can do are well in the realm of L3, but their goal is L4-5. By saying it is L2 at the moment they don't have to justify any of the features as they test and improve. Go watch some of the "Version 11" (latest at the time of this comment) CZcams reviews. "FSD Beta" can realistically drive across state on its own, but because they continuously try new and different things to make it better, they want the freedom to test without the criticism that would come if anything they do doesn't match the L3 label.
Whoever your guy is saying that Tesla’s tech is a joke doesn’t have an understanding about the AI that will win this race. Tesla is doing this completely different and their gamble has paid off with their huge internal investment in compute and the now millions of miles each day that are training their supercomputer. You might want to get an AI engineer to comment next time. This comment won’t age well when Tesla wins this 🤦🏼♂️
You're being too bias towards Tesla, Its true that Tesla self driving technology is a joke compared to other self driving technology. There is test out that proves that especially in the safety self driving test . I love Tesla but sometimes they like to claim their self driving is good when its not. Self driving isn't tesla focus right now, its getting how to manufacture cars properly like ford or Honda which they are behind . It was great in 2016 but competitors have caught up and even out paced tesla.
@@XxkennedyxX23 Other companies can beat Tesla FSD is premapped and specific roads. In general Teslas FSD is better.
@@XxkennedyxX23 Tesla self driving is a joke? This is the biggest joke of the year
Just go try it yourself. I’ve tried all (except Mercedes lvl3 that’s still pretty rare)
Tesla is number one in all scenarios to me because I took them on roads and highways. Never got a chance to test the ones meant for certain area, but in Taiwan there isn’t a specific certain area to test self driving, we just borrow the car and take it on the road.
Laugh all you want but Tesla self driving is currently second to none, period.
@XxkennedyxX23 Are you crazy??? On what basis do you assert this? Have you watched (and understood) AI day?
If Tesla wanted to, they could throw a lidar module on top of their car too, and this would definitely make them fully autonomous with good sensor fusion. However, that'd add ~20k (worth of hardware) to the price of the car, and a weird spiny thing atop the car. This is clearly unacceptable. Mechanical LiDAR is clearly a ridiculous solution for consumer cars. I'd argue all LiDAR has its performance and cost problems though.
Other car mfgs have some effective prototypes-- maybe prototypes close to as effective as a Tesla in certain geofenced routes-- but they will never be commercially viable like a Tesla.
Teslas CV blows everything else outta the water.
I write this comment whilst I'm working on an FPGA core for low power computer vision. U should also note I have a uni degree surrounding this stuff.
@@KenTVtw Frankly, Tesla system is Taiwan is going to be very "behind" the state of art in US. Tesla is still focused on NA for its FSD V11. So till that time, rest of world is getting a older version!
Tesla's tech is a joke?? That analyst is a joke
Your user account is a joke.
it's Boomer media content, they have no clue whatsoever about anything, it is a given that they spew nonsense all day.
thats why they are doomed, they are the pinnacle of incompetence
"Tesla, who isn't a leader" "Tesla's technology is kind of a joke" How can you diminishes that freely Tesla's effort? I mean even if you don't agree with the strategy and think it will not work at the end, you can't pretend they are not serious about it. They designed their own chips, their own training computers, they already make and sell millions of data acquiring vehicles. They even presented some of the work they've done. Denying that is kind of unbelievable...
"It's decent like blue cruise" I think the joke is on you. To accept publishing such thing tells a lot about your editorial standards...
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Yeah... you start to realize that bought organizations like CNBC won't honestly report on Tesla.... even when they are proved wrong over and over again. Tesla has the monotization down, people are paying for the subscription, they have more data than anyone else and they have the cheapest most advanced computers working on this.... and it was Elons company that used ai to land a rocket on a platform, a barge in the sea.... I don't know about you, but I'm betting on Elon....
CNBC gets sponsorships from legacy auto. Nuff said
I have Tesla's FSD, and it's no joke. The rate that is it improving is stunning. Cannot wait for my next update coming this week.
If FSD is so great, why Tesla isn't declaring it a L3 system? Why Mercedes can, but Tesla can't? If you decided to pay money for being a test driver liable for any Tesla fu*kup - its your choice. Just don't be surprised if you are suddenly getting decapitated or run into an emergency vehicle. It is what you signed for.
Can't wait to read an obituary of you losing your life to Tesla's FSD tech.
Tesla’s gonna walk out as market leader in this area whether people like it or not :)
If Tesla FSD is a joke, the other car companies attempting FSD will choke on the punch line.
Time for the tesla community to laugh at this BS
I recognized all along that Tesla had this huge advantage because they are building the technology as an added feature to their core business of selling automobiles. And they are using their customers to train the system in real world conditions. Meanwhile those other companies are paying people to do all that.
Er ... not quite. The customers with the FSD beta are the data collectors. Tesla still has to pay people to handle all those gathered data and feed them into their neural network/machine learning.
@@Uouttooo no they don't have to pay them
@@Uouttooo false
@@Uouttooo Well everyone has to have a development team, but that is not the big expense. The cost of the cars the drivers and the millions of mile driven is the money pit, without the miles driven all you have is a neural-net. This is Tesla's big advantage - millions of miles driven and all of it for free.
@@Uouttooo lol bro just ask Chat GPT. All Tesla cars have FSD operating in shadow mode. Let me repeat that again, ALL TESLA cars are collecting data. Not just the people that paid for FSD
Dude actually said tesla FSD is a joke and its last amongst other companies. Apparently has not seen any of the vids and the astounding progress which will get solved soon. Yes im aware of musk optimism failed attempt for said dates however i own a model y with beta and progress is mind blowing. Its not if its a matter of time before tesla solves it
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Tesla fan boy alert ⚠️
Tesla fan boy always living in the "soon".
But Mercedes is the first company to officially offer L3 on public road, not Tesla.....
looks like Tesal didn't send the check to that "guy", to call it a joke with elaborating why is a low blow. I wonder if he got offended by Musk lol
People said Tesla FSD is a joke is the same People who said SpaceX was a joke for attempting to recover an orbital rocket; And 5 years after SpaceX landed its first rocket still no company in the world can do that.
It's still such an ick that they call is "Full Self Driving" when it's literally an L2 like any new Hyundais would
@@SenapatiAN while I don't think FSD is worth the money, it's far more functional, even in it's current beta form, than what Hyundai has or has announced. You might be confusing autopilot with FSD. Autopilot is distance aware cruise control, and lane keeping, where FSD is closer to a level 3 system than a level 2 system. Tesla requires a driver so it is a level 2 system, I don't see that changing in the near future, maybe level 2.9 would be a better description?
Exactly. What a pathetic little jab.
@@SenapatiAN Fsd is a stupid name. But no. No other company can match what FSD can do.
@jshowa o But it is geofenced which is much easier than the universal system Tesla is creating. To solve level 5 nationwide massive amounts of real world data is needed and no one approaches Tesla in this regard.
This video is incomplete. The legacy automakers tried full autonomous vehicles back in the late 80's early 90's. Of course the computers were laughably large but it did result in many of the safety features we use today like automatic breaking, adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist. I would say the only problem is that they recognized the tech wasn't going to be ready for years out, and stopped working on it just as Tesla came around.
who do you think or which technology do you think will be among the winners in the robo taxi industry?
Marry Bara was also committed to Nikola motors( Trevor meltdown) and fraudstown motors
They don’t at all go into the differences of fully geo fenced pre mapped zones (whate everyone does) vs only using off the shelf video cameras (what tesla does). Neither do they talk about using a neural network and how much data it takes to train that.
why do you think video feeds to an ANN are in any way superior to sensor fusion with LIDAR ? tesla would do much worse even if geofenced.
@@ysesq not sure whether that is superior or not, but a big problem is that you will never be able to geofence the entire planet and keep up with its ever changing network of roads. on top of that, how can you rely on lidar when it does not work well in heavy rains or snowy conditions? not to mention that one of those lidar rigs currently cost about as much as the entire car that its mounted on.
Because Tesla off the shelf video cameras can't see emergency vehicles lit like a Christmas tree 🤣
@@florensvb Lidars for the Mercedes L3 system are $600 per piece.
@@ysesq Teslas approach is the only viable, tesla is not only lightyears ahead, it is the only one solving it soon. this documentary is a complete joke, they all lack any real knowledge in the space, having multiple sensors creates an unsolvable issue, same for geofencing or hd maps, or any of the other meaningless approaches.
people have 0 clue how ai works, they say tesla is a joke and behind, they don't undertand anything, but its boomer media, they don't have a clue about anything whatsoever
Looking forward to seeing a Mercedes cruising at 40pmh on the Autobahn. Such amazing software!
funny. It also only works if there is another car in front of the mercedes and there is no sunlight shining into the sensors or it will disengage. That is what Mercedes and CNBC are touting as level 3 autonomy. Tesla v11.3 can drive anywhere around L.A. or San Francisco with 98% success. Tesla is very close to level 5.
hjahahaha right?
@@troyfall6573 Wrong, Tesla is currently on level 2 with software aids to help improve it to hopefully be FSD which is still in beta.
@@Endorion_YTC Yes, everyone knows that it is level 2 because Tesla deliberately is not applying for level 3,4 or 5 until it is 100%. It will remain in Beta until it is 100%. The fact that others and the media actually believe that Mercedes level 3 is better than Tesla beta fsd is absurd.
@@troyfall6573 Not everyone knows that Tesla is currently level 2. It's amazing how Mercedes is already first to come with R&D with L3 and is out on the U.S. market. I don't know about that though in terms of Tesla being better than Mercedes when clearly Mercedes has never made an autonomous vehicle as of now. Too early to actually prove it's better than Tesla as of now. Until production of the new Drive Pilot system and people doing reviews it may be better in suitable roads.
The issue is, most companies are interested in self driving just to make sure they can cut cost on labor cost and maximize the highest possible profit with the lowest labor cost. That why they all push for self driving
What labor cost?
Exactly. I think self driving is most useful as a feature on cars, but won’t replace car ownership
Looks like financial analyst never even looked at or understood the underlying technologies and issues like what type of sensors to use, data collection or AI and the requirement for data collection on a truly massive scale and the capability to exploit that for training.
2:15 the chart shows Ford having sold 6,600,000 and Tesla having sold 76,230, however the narration describes Ford as having sold only 10x as many units, when the factor is closer to 100x as many units
FUD motor company , has LACK of Demand.
Lol how about now?
@@nexusly6720 Ford delivered 4 million vehicles in 2022 and Tesla 1.3 million. Globally
@@Bambarbia2447 The difference is rate of growth. If you see Ford's change from 2021 to 2022, you'll see a flat (slightly negatively sloped) line. If you see Tesla's change from 2021 to 2022, it's an exponential curve
Good for Ford!! Yet, they lost $2 billions last year?!
The real joke is companies whose vehicles are geo-fenced in the least complicated few city blocks and can only operate within those limited spaces in less than half a dozen cities.
According to the SAE International chart displayed in this same article defining the levels of driving autonomy Level 3 still requires someone to be in the driver seat ready to take over when prompted by the ADAS system. That’s a joke for some companies but not for others if I heard right.
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Yeah, but that's where tech has to give to the law...they don't want them driving far because the cities don't want them driving too far. These areas where they operate are negotiated with local regulators. So they are limited in area of operation as a result.
@@jhmcd2 the cities don’t want cars driving too far? So that’s why they are geofenced? 😂
@@jhmcd2 You are a joke. It is because of the limitation of geofencing due to it being expensive to scan the areas of travel, and the surrounding objects such as sidewalks, lights, stop signs, etc. All that data have to be kept up to date at all times and have to be changed for the areas that have changed.
@@gregswallingoal Yes. Its a LEGAL THING. Self driving cars are not street legal. These are proving runs. And they are not owned by cities, they are owned by private companies.
As a ride shared driver it has been always so obvious that ride share companies cannot evolve to own the fleets, they just profit from someone else owning the car and doing the maintenance for free. It was so absurd those companies invested in self driving. It would make more sense they invested in self cleaning , self repairs , self fueling , and in parking space in the first place.
Rental fleet owners like Hertz and other small startups accumulating teslas will likely be the ones running and maintaining the robotaxi fleets
when you say "self cleaning , self repairs , self fueling" are you talking about automated or robotic or the human driver being able to do it themself or?
@@manp1039 I think it is more achievable to make robots clean a and fuel a car than driving it . Robots have been building cars probably since the 80s, so it wouldn't be that crazy that they get good at disassembling and replacing parts. If eliminating the human from the operation costs makes sense for the business part, that should make sense as well.
Woah, self-driving technology is hard!?!
Who coulda guessed 🤨
Tesla lol.. The only technology and strategy to solve Full self driving.
@@BreakneckTrent Waymo and Cruise already have operational "robotaxis" that don't require anyone in the driver seats unlike the "fully self driving" Teslas 😂.
What an obnoxious comment
It's just not profitable
its all a scam
Tesla isn't a joke, that is a popular comment from haters to seem like they know their stuff. Mercedes system and most other systems coming can only engage in specific situations, like on a freeway under 60 miles per hour or something like that and on pre mapped roads. Tesla is going for it all, they probably could tweak their system now to work level 3 on some pre mapped roads and only certain conditions.
tesla's self driving is a joke unless you're on a highway, people who paid 15k for it are just in denial.
No current Tesla will ever take you from point A to Point B across town without intervention. Which is exactly what was implied and promised years ago. Not a hater, but not stupid either.
@@charleyu5506 Where do you drive in? I drive in Seattle and it does extremely well for a beta product..... video proof on my channel.
@@spazzman90 I disagree. Video proof: czcams.com/video/sXIgo_MDu3w/video.html
You are all behind the times. My Tesla Model Y on FSD v11 just took me on a 126 mile round trip on Friday with no intervention needed.
I was a part of Argo AI in Munich - sad for everybody who lose their jobs
Learn to code
@@LordTufi which is also being taken over by AI?
Teslas technology is not self drive, yet the most useful because the car doesn’t crap out and complain that it has “exited the supported area”. These geo-restricted self driving are only really useful to fleet operations that only drive specific routes. Teslas approach is a lot more useful to a normal human being that’ll choose destination based on convenience not support maps.
I'll support Tesla when it stops sending their drivers to their FSD-induced deaths. Hell, a coffin is less expensive than any Tesla car and is way more comfortable.
@@johnnycheung5536 Oh, please tell me about FSD-induced death, considering that the car warns you if you are not paying attention and shuts off your driving if you don't respond?
I bet you've never driven a Tesla.
@@johnnycheung5536 there where less incidents when fsd beta was engaged that normal percentage when humans are driving, just let that sink in
@@johnnycheung5536 they give you PLENTY of very obvious warnings about FSD being beta and must be supervised under all circumstances. About 2 when you buy the thing and additional 1-3 when you engage it for the first time in the car. If you choose to ignore that and get killed, that’s on you for being an idiot. Plus, their included autopilot was what I was pointing to, not FSD Beta.
@@2ProBro.Gaming I agree, Tesla FSD is already 7x safer than driving without FSD 10. 11.3 is even better.
The video gives a good overview on the different players/approaches on self-driving, except regarding Tesla. Calling Tesla FSD a joke is not the problem, since its still brittle. The problem is that Tesla has a different technical/business approach to self-driving and that wasnt even mentioned.
what do you expect from a bias report?
saying tesla is not an auto pilot leader is like saying apple is not a phone leader
How did Uber lose 9 billion when they rip of and cheat their drivers .
Capitalism is good
That's exactly what I was wondering. I've never liked uber. I was always instinctively suspicious of their business model, which was never so much about creating wealth, but taking other people's.
Somebody has to pay the higher ups...
Imagine there’s no uber, no drivers then? Taxis are a joke now bec of uber
In summary, self-driving is technically possible but it's such a money furnace and there is no clear road to profitability so that only giga corps like Google and Amazon can afford to prolong development.
Tesla are able to circumvent it by having the car owners pay to use their software in real world scenarios. They are basically getting an insane amount of data. Google and Amazon appear to be limited since they only concentrate on specific roads in a specific city. Their self driving software is pretty useless outside of the specified area and they don’t have enough cars to get a ton of real world data.
@@insanittiez4860 do you really think so? Tesla is kind lie until you make it. There's even a law suit on this thing. The ads they made is false advertising
No, it's that trying to skip from level 2 to 4 is untenable. Focusing on improving driving assist features should be the near-term goal.
@@insanittiez4860 I suspect you didn't even watch the video, specifically the Tesla debunk part. Tesla doesn't even have driver monitoring or geofencing yet. They're behind.
Just like fiber optics, will not be coming to a home near you…
How to go back..... Thanks CNBC, you made me laugh as never, you recall me the first time cars was aimed to replace horses...
“Tesla’s technology is kind of a joke” lol, that schlub’s gonna eat his words.
I saved this video just incase so I can show this dude how cancel culture really works
When tesla achieves L5AD, I’ll make sure he doesn’t have a career
I was once the Director of Research and Development for Breed Technologies, the company that developed the first commercial crash detection sensors used to deploy airbags for occupant protection in vehicles back in 1989. As remote sensing technology became of interest for prevention of crashes back in the late 1990s, I was always concerned about where the remote vision sensors were located on the vehicle. A typical reason for lawsuits involving injury to vehicle occupants injured in a crash is the degradation over time of the crash detection or airbag deployment system due to poor vehicle maintenance and damage incurred from things like parking lot collisions or rough road abuse. The physical location of the sensors that are looking for what is happening outside the vehicle is in close proximity or on the vehicle exterior as opposed to responsive accelerometers located within the vehicle is a very important distinction to make. In a vehicle equipped with a driver assistance system, that little dent in the bumper or side of the vehicle could be the difference in life or death if the vehicle is not inspected for damage and repaired very quickly which could prove to be very expensive over the lifetime of the vehicle. In summary, the practical use of sensors to prevent road accidents is a far more daunting problem than detecting that a crash is happening and taking appropriate safety measures.
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I would agree as well. I noticed that Cruise put many sensors at the top of the 4 corners on their purpose built self driving robotaxis, and it seems to me a better location to put some sensirs to both have a good overview, but also be less prone from damages from other cars,…
good points.. And I recently saw videos showing some of the newer sensors that have built in ways to test their functioning and in some cases able to detect what is malfunctioning on the sensors. I am presuming this is one way to make things safer and less expensive to be on top of maintenance wise? And perhaps AI will be deployed to monitor the sensors functionality and can be talked to.. as opposed to the more primitive vague indicator lights on a dashboard?
I don't know who that dude is that said Tesla's tech is a joke, but I know for sure one person who well respected and who knows what he is talking about and that is Munro. He is fascinated about Tesla's full self-driving tech. So, again, CNBC doing what CNBC does.
solving real world AI self driving is primarily a data issue, (if you don't understand why plz don't comment) and Te$la are many orders of magnitude ahead of the game in data harvesting + application, they r the horse I'd bet on
I would bet on them but they got rid of the USS sensors which was a stupid decision because of greed and accident rates are going up. The engineers warned Elon not to remove them but they wanted to cut costs at the cost of safety, I'm not betting on them unless they add it back
If they can’t design a self-driving train (an infinitely simpler problem), then… there’s no way they’ll ever have a self driving car. Also, notice how crisp and clear all the lane divider road paint is in these demos. That’s a huge contrast to most of the faded paint on the majority of real world roads. Many people have reported “lane keep assist” horror stories in areas with less than perfect lane paint.
This has not been my experience with Tesla. It's been great and gets better with every update. I'm starting to trust it more and more but want to emphasize, the driver must pay attention at all times. It is like having your teenager drive. Mistakes will be made while it learns on a global scale.
@@ddecker3800then why don't they use it in the Vegas loop?
@@domusdebellum3042 It's not fully autonomous yet so, of course drivers are required. I have no idea about using it or not in the Loop. Speculation is the regulations do not allow it yet. Or the drivers do not trust it, which would be odd considering the chance of crashing into anything would be pretty low once they are in the tunnels.
the human cost of driving a train is probably much lower than cars. i don't have numbers but i guess that's true. so there is not much motivation doing that. they already have self driving airplane. the self driving car probably is indeed harder than train and airplane because the road definition is more complicated and more obstacles.i just wonder why cannot the government step in: just allocate a line in the highways for self driving car, so that the technology gets a market to start with. otherwise, after the capital sees no problem because of this difficult problem, there won't be more investment.
? I ride a driverless metro everyday in Copenhagen. If a person can drive with faded lines computers will learn. There are loads of real world videos of teslas doing it. Not always perfectly but a lot lot better than 5 years ago.
Has anyone (in the video or the comments) actually used Tesla’s latest FSD 11.3 software? It doesn’t seem like anyone actually has any real world experience with it…
Just rolling out now. Give it a few more weeks.
I love how he says “Tesla’s technology is a joke.”
Yeah how’s it working out for Ford and VW? Oh that’s right the company went bankrupt 🤣
What to say of someone that makes this kind of comment.
Tesla tech is a joke. It’s “self driving” is just Ford Supercruise. Nothing special.
I don't like half the things that come out of Elon's mouth these days, but don't bet against him. 1. 20 years ago, nobody was talking about electric cars. 2. 20 years ago, NOBODY was flying rockets to space and flying them back to the launch pad. That was Buck Rodgers Sci-fi sh*t.
Exactly what i thought, also they barely mention tesla in this whole video because its the only autonomous vehicle company succeeding lmao
I think he was just referring to the autonomous driving, tesla is number 1 in terms of features tho. Also tesla is a luxury brand so the avg consumer doesn't care if they have a better product or not as long as the exp is nice, unless its being compared to another luxury brand
Meta! The guy saying Tesla’s technology is a joke is the joke himself. Tesla is the leader (period)
Self-driving isn't possible when it rains.
I dont have tsla or any self driving car... But to call tsla's tech a joke? It seems like a big statement
Nearly 10 times as much cars? Maybe I'm bad at math or something but I could be certain that 6.6 mil is over 80 times more than 76230.
Good pick up. 2022 saw the production of 1.3 million EVs from the same company. Low estimates for 2023 are expecting 1.8 million up to 2 million depending on the macro environment. Q1 results will be worth a look in a few weeks. It’ll be interesting to compare that with F’s EV production numbers and total vehicle production for the same quarter.
yeah, closer to 100x...
As MANY
Don’t ever trust CNBC math. The business channel that can’t do basic math.
Yep, caught this immediately, big blunder!
All the obstacles Tesla's competitors have is not an issue for Tesla. They make their own cars at a fraction of what it costs the ride sharing companies so can charge $1 per ride and still make a huge income.
Then you have a research analyst calling Tesla system is a joke. The only system that is making money.
Tesla fan boy alert ⚠️
@@Rust_Rust_Rust Only to met by Tesla hater alert
what happens if Waymo suddenly partners with Ford or GM to build Waymo-equipped Robo taxi's.. Things can suddenly change overnight. And in this case, Waymo leverages its existing credibility and functioning robo-taxi business technology to scale to multiple cities.. I think Waymo is playing the long game and doing so maintaining credibility and trust with riders, the public, and lawmakers/regulators.
@@manp1039 No. Tesla has unlimited money compared to Ford or any other car companies and it still took 20 years for Tesla to build its Gigafactories they have now. They are also by far the leader in battery technology and have no competition in Full Sell Driving so it is near impossible for anyone else o catch up with Tesla. Tesla is without a doubt the Apple of electric vehicle and the legacy car makers will fight for scraps market share of a few percentage points.
I drive a 2022 Model 3 Performance with v11 FSD beta and it's good. Like really good. Like so good, when it comes to directions and navigating new areas, I let Tesla software take the reins. I do 10,000% prefer a battery powered car with this level capability, and Tesla is the only one that has it, that can sell you a car today, and can service that car. The others just can't.
My car takes me from door step to door step. On and off highways, highway interchanges, roundabouts, stop light and signs, over takes slow cars, parks itself, can (kind of lOl) pick me up in a parking (sometimes).... its sooo dope. Like so dope. I
And it is silent and faster than 99% off cars on the road. Like wtf. What's not to love?
People just don’t understand or they love to hate, we really can’t change that😢
We all know self driving cars will fall under our AI overlord ChatGPT.
You should have been around for the fight between Intel, AMD, Zilog, Fairchild, and the rest. Tube giant Sylvania made semiconductors (TTL). Everybody wanted to be a microprocessor company.
Wait, WTF? "Tesla's AI is a joke..." says the company that put an athletic director in charge of Autonomous? Tesla is further than ANY of these companies!
Tesla self driving is a joke? I don’t think this guy ever tested any of these cars….
I’m a car enthusiast in Taiwan, and I can CONFIRM after driving several cars by different companies, Tesla’s self driving feature is second to none.
Agreed with proof: czcams.com/video/fdpxPeh0Kuc/video.html
Woa. Nice video piece. Thanks.
Ford should first focus on making cars that don’t have silly recalls and reliability issues
lol. 2018 Escape 20k miles..A blown head gasket led to needing a new short block. Never FORD AGAIN.
You mean like a steering wheel that comes loose and the manufacturer expects the customer to pay for the repair? Oh wait ... that was Tesla.
@@Hans-gb4mv That was a really rare one but so exceptionally strange in that the owner apparently kept driving the car even as the wheel got looser & looser finally causing costly damage to the steering column. Should TM reward such pig-headed stupidity?
@@user-ky5en3po1y And Toyota recalling BZ4X immediately after sale for wheels falling off the vehicle. Never TOYOTA again!!!!!
Ever since Allan Mullaly left Ford, they got more concerned with Wall Street than the quality of their vehicles. Now, Jim Farley has a BIG MESS to clean. The last 3 CEOs ruined Ford.
Sometimes I wonder if large news companies are afraid to say anything positive about Tesla, as in do they fear loosing add revenue from legacy auto makers. I swear the car commercials never stop and Tesla doesn't do traditional commercials.
He said it's joke me watching a video of man going to his job without touching anything 😂😂😂
i never understood the confidence about full self-driving at the same level of safety and success we have now with human drivers.
I recommend you get a test ride in a Waymo.
So what you're saying is that Tesla is the only one that's figured out a business model, believes in the technology, and is furthest along to developing it? Awesome!
I can go to the sales store on my Tesla screen, hit purchase FSD, my credit card gets debited 8500e, and my car will instantly be able to drive itself. That is a 100% profit margin for Tesla.
Phillip.
No, that is not what they are saying. Tesla does.t have a business model either. Go back to playing with your Legos.
Are they though? Their technology has been 'coming next year' for the last few years. Even Tesla doesn't have confidence in their own technology.
I was lucky to sell my Ford and GM stocks on time.
Just like the content, am intrested in the name of software used to edit the video @CNBC
AAAAaaaand that's why the cold war model for disruptive R&D was superior.
Doing high risk, long term and high cost R&D based on market forces and promises of profits when the uses for said future technology in development are not fully sussed out either result in slower development, or hype driven development that results in abandonware.
In contrast a publicly funded R&D initiative like the ones we had in the cold war is what gave today's material technology, aeronautics, networking, batteries, etc.
for example the invention of the microchip would be IMPOSSIBLE without 50 years of prior publicly funded research into material technology that at the time had no obvious use.
If you want the US to be the leader in tech we need to re-introduce the cold war R&D model, the time we 'd set a goal that seemed unrealistic at the time, such as reaching the moon in a decade, which had no immediate monetary profit and yet we put 5% of the GDP into acheiving that goal.
Decades later the tech that was developed to get us to the moon is the backbone of hundreds of industries that are bolstering the US economy, paying us back in entire orders of magnitude.
If we want to remain a world leader we need to stop relying on market forces to fund disruptive R&D and initiate a new era of scientific "moonshots".
Personally I believe the next frontiers are biotechnology (especially medical), AI, nanotechnology, advanced manifacturing technology, material technology, quantum computing and cybernetics.
If we don't get off our current tragectory and don't invest the resources and funds only a superpower can muster to be the ones to develop this tech first then I suggest you prepare learnging chinese.
Not only will their technology surpass the US and result in it gaining an economic upper hand but technological fields like medical biotechnology, medical nanotechnology and cybernetics are the ultimate soft power card, because this technologies are the key to ending disease, disability and aging.
And there's no stronger card you can play than being a "life broker"
It's extremely hard to beat "come with me and you'll live for centuries without aging and no disability"
They totally under estimated how difficult it would be
@@LeetHaxington are you ok?
Humans underestimate a lot.
Yep you're basically driving along with human driving heck women
There is a serious risk nobody is talking about.
For the time being, every good self driving algorithm can be fed a single extra condition which directly lead to a road incident. For "extra condition" I mean, a motorbike hidden by a truck, a spill of lubricant oil on the road, a reflection of Sun rays into the sensing camera, etc.
It could well be that the FSD, if you consider it a polynomial with the length of the drive, could well fall foul of the halting theorem. In other words, it could well be that any long enough city driving session, will mathematically always end in a collision...
@@rayoflight62 No.
I watch CNBC for the comedy!
That line about Teslas technology being a joke made it worthwhile!
always remember the key point not that the tech itself fail but more of business model still not found. basically autonomous driving by removing driver means adding problems directly to the company which usually handle by the driver
Saying Tesla is at the bottom is a joke. That guy needs to report on something else like dog toys and adult toys.
He meant the fsd part, tesla is an electric car first company, with an fsd feature.
"Tesla's technology is kind of a joke" - LOL
that leaderboard graphic hahaha I was dying
Right after saying all of the level 4 autonomy people were giving up and basically just trying to copy cat tesla.😂
@@jasonhallowell9456 🤣🤣🤣
I love how CNBC trashes Tesla. It’s fine. When Tesla solves autonomous driving, these same experts are gonna be claiming nobody could have seen this coming and try to jump on the bandwagon.
that is 100% correct
Very good
Since this video aired, Cruise has laid off 1/3rd of its staff and had to recall its entire fleet.
They could have just asked any normal software developers. When it’s someone else’s money anything is possible until the suckers catch up to reality.
Following the money great investigation reporting all about money investments
Bingo. I’ve been calling these investor scams, from the start. You cannot cram completely autonomous vehicles in with regular people on the roads. There are way too many unknown variables that you can’t account for, and computers cannot make these kinds of moral decisions, because the smallest unknown variable makes each and every situation encountered VERY different.
Most of the auto manufacturers don't actually code anything. They pay another company to do that.
@@truthteller4442 me too. Everybody laughs at me when I point out full self driving as peoppe perceive it is impossible.
Tesla Is So far ahead of the Game its not even funny.
Haaaa
this is literally true, i feel sad for the boomer media, vomiting out nonsense all day, it's actually unbelievable how incompetent they are
How is this technology a failure when most people don't want this technology nor support it or like myself completely against it.
*Phoenix AZ was spelled wrong on the map in your video* ( at the 13:00 mark )
Comparing Teslas FSD Beta (free range) to all the other geofenced systems is apples and oranges. Amazing how some so called "experts" can't/won't see what's right in front of them. I'll take FSD Beta over any other system hands down. Bonus, the maker of FSD also makes the vehicles. Again, comparing apples and oranges.
Tesla fan boy alert ⚠️
If you've ever been in a taxi in India or China, then you can understand just how excellent Tesla's FSD software is. I rate it to be 50x less stress and 100x safer than my Asian taxi rides.
Ha ha. I did a video with that title. 1% hassle for 99% less stress (as it's safer than driving myself). czcams.com/video/fdpxPeh0Kuc/video.html
I wonder how will Tesla do with Indian driving. Elon will prolly have to design a new software just for India 😆
@@jonathanlivingston7358 He definitely would. By the way, traffic rules don't mean anything in cities like Delhi. But that's not just India. Most of south east Asia is like that. Don't know about China though.
How would Tesla FSD fare in a trafic jungle in Asia like India lol. I wouldn t bet money on it.
I wonder how well tesla fsd would do in the Vegas loop. I also wonder why they aren't using it there. It almost seems as if when they're responsible they avoid it but when you're responsible they encourage it.
When everyone else fails, you should have reasonable doubts for the only guy who claims he can do it.
Cut off executive bonus and they’ll have plenty of capital to fund these projects.
This sounds like a straight hit piece on Tesla. Having been on FSD since July I can safely say it is a lot further ahead in terms of ability of said companies on this video 😂
You’re spot on. Tesla’s FSD is better than Waymo that drives within a geofence
Yeah to go into depth on other companies and then simply say Tesla isn't a leader, it's a joke and move on makes it kinda obvious 😂
I don't even know what I was trying to say here
They are waiting for someone else to build it and sell it to them
Tesla will rent it to them, that will be a hard pill to swallow
The fact this video shows an old Tesla model from 2018 while showing the latest Mercedes model shows their bias
CNBC doesn't quite understand how AI works, which is why they say Tesla is a joke.
Self driving technology should target easier though still useful projects. Such as low speed shuttles that run in downtowns closed to private cars on defined routes. The shuttle can learn a single route, run at lower speeds, not have to deal with personal cars. Or autonomous farm tractors.
Sounds like a good idea!!!;)
How about self driving trains instead, cars had their shot
Technically such trains have existed for many years. The DC Metro was built to be self driving, as is the PATCO Speedline in Camden
Autonomous vehicles feel like the most insane way to try to avoid just investing in public transit. We invented a way to get on a vehicle and get to where you need to go ages ago, trains and buses, invest and build out the networks and we literally don't need this crap at all.
As this video discusses the business side of self riving cars i see poor judgment when they dissmiss tesla FSD. FSD approach is transferable more to robots like optimus than the geofencing appoach. When you develop a difficult technology for multiple markets sectors seems that business analysts cannot follow such technology raodmaps and are prime targets be taken over by AI themselves so people can access less biased information as displayed by this video content.
Cant believe they said “Tesla is a joke and not even a contender” that man clearly did not test Tesla’s fsd beta
Or watch any of the hundreds of videos on CZcams of the it being used in the real world...
Coworker has a Tesla with FSD. It’s pretty amazing although not perfect. I’d say Tesla are 80% of the way there, of course if the 80/20 rule holds the last 20% is going to take 80% of the total effort.
Well said. As a driver, I'd say 90% of they way of what it is currently designed to do. I'd say 60% of all driving conditions and environments.
AI is learning fast though.
Here's proof: czcams.com/video/fdpxPeh0Kuc/video.html
Stupid pipe dream! If you know anything about AI, you know that the last 10% takes 200% effort, and the last 2% 2000%! Why, because the AI need to be much bigger, than the current available computer power.
@@cyberslim7955 wow chill
@@SPER1 That't the whole point. Fanboys like this dumb s**t EM make things up all the time. Robo Taxi are here next year...
We don't need autonomous private vehicles. We need mass transit.
thank you, we already have self driving cars they are called trains
@@noneofyourbusiness6269 👍
But such as the fate of any new industry. Remember when we had thousands of internet startups and almost all of them died in 2002? We also had hundreds of car companies decades ago. Eventually the industry will be realized, but it'll probably be vastly different than what anyone in this comment section had predicted. :)
This reminded me why I usually don't watch CNBC videos. How can you really know who is leading and not leading an industry that is still in it's infancy and when we still don't know which technology will be the most successful? Nearly every "projection" is just a guess. Normally that would be fine, but this technology is changing so rapidly that it is very hard to predict if lidar or camera based systems will win out.
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I see the loss of confidence to continue to pursue autonomous driving technology as similar to the loss of effort to pursue self landing rockets by SpaceX. Today SpaceX has built up a solid record that proves they were on the right track all along but what they did requires a ton of brainpower, solid mastery of physics and really talented engineering skills! All doable but a resolute leadership team must be in place!
landing rockets != autonomous driving
@@samuelrieder5480 both look similarly impossible!
@@ismailnyeyusof3520 No landing rockets upright was done in the 1990s by Nasa
@@samuelrieder5480 Wow, thanks for that brilliant insight. I’m sure you have a PhD in rocket science and autonomous driving to back up your claim. Or maybe you just like to make pointless comments without any explanation or evidence. Either way, you clearly missed the point of the original comment. It was about the perseverance and vision required to pursue ambitious and challenging goals, not about the technical details or differences between landing rockets and autonomous driving. Maybe you should learn to read and think before you reply.
@@samuelrieder5480 A few years ago, self landing rockets would be termed much more difficult. Add to that SpaceX was probably the first private company related to space exploration. If we were to lose spaceX today, self driving tech would be easier to build than building those rockets from scratch.
It is far more cost efficient to let software companies create the technology and then just license it.
It’s not just the tech. It’s the business model. Once the tech is there, it’s going to be small boutique firms that offer luxury/exclusive products that can charge a premium who will win the competition. Think equinox of Uber. Ideal area for this business model would be cities like Los Angeles.
Running a global automobile company and trying to balance the demands of various regulations, pricing, consumer tastes, shipping, etc and all while trying to uproot decades of supply chains for just a few markets for EVs while supporting less developed markets need for ICE cars seems like a head ache.
I know of someone who just turned 40 and is too afraid to drive worrying about his eyesight degrading , really wants a self driving car
Self driving cars can only work if you have nothing else than self driving cars. With all variables, regular cars, etc, I wouldn't trust this for a second.
@@bmw803 That's just not actual fact, sorry. Computers (AI) can think 1000 times faster than us. They will figure it out. "...When your servant becomes your master"... Bono, U2.
@Lounge lizard They'll figure it out uhh? Really!!! That inspires a lot of confidence. Yes, computers are definitely faster but unable to perform any other task other than what's programmed . Computers are unable to make decisions based on a particular situation yet. We're still far from SKYNET.
It is because they got all the money they wanted from the investors and now they have no obligation to keep going.
LOL. I was about to comment, after watching this video presentation, on the complete misunderstanding of the TWO major approaches to Full Self Driving: The Tesla version using cameras and the Geo-fenced version via lidar etc. However, I read the comments and many explanations expose the "Real" situation better than I could explain. One thing: That closed-minded guy, Sam Abuelsamid, will regret making such a dismissive statement about Tesla's capabilities re FSD. Tesla had started down the Lidar track but realised the limiting problems associated with that approach. Then they headed off at a tangent with their own system. History will tell us which "system" will win out. I know who I've got my money on. Cheers.
What’s that saying?? Don’t bet against Elon
"tEsLa Is A jOkE". 😂😂😂 TESLA is eating everybody's lunch.
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12:39 Tesla’s self driving system is a joke? Are you serious? If you have seen their FSD beta, the behavior is at least level 3. It is definitely not level 4 yet but its plan for collecting and training vector space models make sense from a cost perspective. Yes, LiDAR + cameras with HD map can get to level 4 faster but costs much more than camera only solutions. The only self driving project that has good business model is Tesla FSD. Hack, Tesla does not even need to spend much money because some Tesla users pay for FSD upfront when buying the car.
Tom Narayan gave excellent insights. 👏
It's absurd that legacy auto manufacturers thought it would be a good idea to buy companies similar in nature to those like Uber & Lyft that have never turned a profit and still have no path to do so.