Ranking Starkid's LGBTQ Characters (discussion and analysis)
Vložit
- čas přidán 31. 05. 2020
- Happy Pride everyone! Today I took at the various LGBTQ characters who have popped up in different Starkid shows. Make sure to share your thoughts in the comments.
#Pride2020
Airport Lounge - Disco Ultralounge by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/ - Zábava
www.lgbtqfund.org/
www.thetrevorproject.org/
trevor project hotline: 1-866-488-7386
Remember, we can still be proud without the parades!
The funniest thing to me will forever be the fact that on the starkid wiki all of the working boys on Hidgens’ page are listed as “implied lovers”
Lol my mom thought that all of those guys were his ex-boyfriends when she first heard those songs.
Plot twist: working boys is a gay harem anime
No, it's just Chad...
The only confirmed one is Chad sadly
@@dvdcbb *WORKING BOYS, I’M UP TO MY ASS IN SHIT.*
I don't think the McNamara thing was due to Starkid not wanting him to be gay. The monologue was probably cut for time after the livestream and would be cut if it was about his wife. There's a lot of story in Black Friday and somethings needed to be cut. We don't meet his husband (unless it's Xander or Wilbur) so it wasn't important to the Black Friday story.
Yeah that's probably what happened. That was a problem in Black Friday in general of overstuffing the storylines. I hope they can find somewhere to put it in the next show.
Honestly, we would all love an extra 10 minutes of McNamara talking about his hubby
Nerco very true
it is my headcannon, that his Husband is Hidgens.
wait so youre telling me i actually managed to interpret McNamara being gay even tho i didnt know abt the cut mention of his husband? damn im talented
Lol that's skill
I thought that general McNamara had a romantic past with Wiley because I head cannon he was a Ex-PEEP agent (he said he used to be a colonel) and he addressed him by his first name. I know that's not a lot to go off of but, I think there could be a lot of fun drama based off of a past relationship. People have been shipped for less lol
@@razberry3800 I say Wiley is actually Wilbur cross and they were an item in the past
Edit:why the fuck did I say “an item”
We love the gaydar
While I agree with Zazzalil/Jemilla not really being built up I do like this ship because well, they're cave people and relationships don't seem to be that big of a deal there so it doesn't make it unrealistic and I do like the symbolism of this ship, how they represent different approach to life and find balance together
Yes! Totally agree. I mean sure I would love more moments between them but it’s also sort of established in the show that in this society relationships and marriage are a lot more casual than in modern society. And then in together and especially the proposal in the finale song they show that they really have learned to appreciate each other and ugh I love them
And everyone being like UGH zazzalil should’ve been with Keeri instead!! That’s stupid like Jemilla has thousands of spouses and Zazzalil can’t have two?? Again I feel like people are sort of arbitrarily imposing modern relationship values onto the characters who live in a society where that’s the norm
Like I would have loved a scene where zazz apologized to keeri but in the end like her getting with jemilla in no way impedes her getting with keeri in the future
I agree, i wish their relationship was bettet developed as well, but really think that they should be the main ship because of the philosophies they represent and how their union implies a new and more nuanced view of society for the tribe.
Also like they were just friends but because of the culture they were in it was a kinda romantic friendship.
I would die for those two
I feel like Zazzalil and Jemilla got married on a status level thing rather than love or whatever. It makes sense to me because Jemilla was kind of sharing leadership with Zazz, which I think would be more likely to happen than ‘ooo I love you, marry me’ since Jemilla was married to like the whole village of Neanderthals
For avpm and avps Dumbledore, I interpreted all the predatory jokes as playing off of what JK Rowling set Dumbledore up to be. Cause in the books he did kind of have a bit of a strange fascination with Harry (beyond him being "the boy who lived") ya know? Of course agree that it definitely rubs the wrong way today versus back then! Just think the jokes are rooted in JK rather than something they came up with out of nowhere.
Yeah they made a joke about Slughorn "collecting young boys" in AVPSY (which why did they phrase it like that in the movies in the first place. that's super creepy) so that could definitely be part of it.
Yeah there’s a lot of jokes like that in the first two.
I don't know if i do remember correctly, but i kinda remember a quote by Rowling saying some bs like "yeah, he's gay but never in a way that is like a problem" or something like that
if that's not a thing, i retract it, but at this point i wouldn't be surprised
totally agree with your takes here!!! i think a lot of the humor with quirrelmort came from like. how much of a sincere genuine effort was put into their love story in the middle of a like high comedy show and i’ve always thought that was kinda delightful
I freaking love Quirrelmort. Their ending in AVPSY legit makes me cry.
Hidgens can’t be gay, he’s in a relationship with Alexa
I actually think he may be asexual
@@FloreMar-yp3iz I can see that, it would be pretty neat, more Ace representation is always good ^-^
I'd accept any of this.
He also chucked her 5 minutes later.
And he ended up throwing her against a wall and killing her
In my ideal world, Nerdy Prudes Must Die is about Deb, played by the lovely Jaime. She'd be a lead and we'd get more of Deb, who we know very little about. I think that'd be super cool.
i would love that!
My dream for Nerdy Prudes must die would be to have it focus on Deb and Bill and have Bill slowly warm up to the idea of Deb dating his daughter over the course of the show
my hope is that NPMD is gonna focus on the teens of hatchetfield (since grace chastity, hot chocolate boi (oliver), & now cineplex kid have come up as potential characters). if they did a teen-centered show, they could bring back alice, deb, ethan, lex, & of course, the smoke club. that would be so fun.
I think (and hope) it'll be about grace chasity. I want to know what kind of character shes going to be, since we got a tease about her in both tgwdlm and bf (Bill said that alice called Grace a nerdy prude, and tom mentioned her babysitting his son), But since I want Jaime to be the main character... idk
It'll definitely have Grace Chasity in it, since Alice called her a "nerdy prude." But yeah, I'd love to see Deb as the main character and Jaime as lead!
What do you think of the theory that Chorn is non-binary? Everyone in Firebringer always addresses it with it/its pronouns, which while it may not be the most popular non-binary pronoun, is still used by a fair amount of people.
Also, I loved the trans validation in Little White Lie! There wasn't any proper trans representation, but the scene where everyone is super supportive of Sami when Tanya tells everyone she is a trans boy as a joke is super adorable.
I'd also love more trans/nb representation, and I think Nick Lang said he would love to include trans/nb characters if he finds actors that are also trans/nb, as he doesn't want to portray them badly (which I think is super nice of him!!)
It's interesting because Chorn is an alien, so I don't think normal human ideas of gender apply. Like most non-binary people (at least that I know) find "it" to be kind of dehumanizing, but Chorn isn't human so... I've actually been thinking about this a lot, like how we apply human ideas of sex and gender to sci-fi/fantasy species, because I've been catching up on Supernatural and I think the angels could be a really interesting exploration into our idea of gender, but alas the show will never do that. But hey, that's what the internet's for!
I totally forgot about Little White Lie! I haven't watched it in ages. I gotta check that out.
And yeah, Nick said that in a livestream, I think the golden anniversary stream.
as a non binary person I love reading Chorn as enby, but this is also somewhat problematic because so much of non binary representation is non-human people and Chorn is played by a cis person. while it/its pronouns are super valid it feels weird if Starkid only has one enby character and that character uses it/its pronouns, if Starkid had other enby characters who used a variety of pronouns that would be better.
@@avishapira1919 thanks for the input! i agree that if they had more non binary characters, it would be less of a big deal. I think in general when we have more representation of a certain group it's easier to vary the chatacters more without worrying about stereotypes. Like no one ever worries about having negative stereotypes of cis people because theres a million other examples, but with more underrepresented groups, those negative portrayals make up a way larger portion of the characters.
@@SilvanaLTD I feel that they should try and get jim povolo (nb xe/xir) as a nb character
@@k0pstl939 i totally agree, i love Jim Povolo and i really hope xe's in one of their future shows.
(Edited: accidentally used the wrong pronoun)
First of all, I think I just realized something. Does that mean that, technically, Voldemort is canonically bi? Or at least under the bi umbrella? But yeah Quirrelmort is a masterpiece. It’s so CUTE. Seriously, the end of AVPM was genius, right?
Second, I would LOVE to see more of Alice and Deb in NPMD, assuming it’s more focused on the high school characters. Also a lesbian couple storyline that has some more genuine buildup.
i mean, it might be a case of him repressing being gay and dating/sleeping with women because it's "the normal thing"/internalized homophobia, and he did say "I'm gay!" but it would be cool if he was bisexual! its implied he had a relationship with belatrix but we can't know whether it was genuine or not! but cross fingers for bi rights
Well scarfy did say that he could see it going multiple ways so I think bi or pan
jabe jabe That’s what I thought but then I realized Scarfy said Ron was specifically bi-curious, so I think he’s pan or just identifies as queer.
From the script:
SCARFY: Oh! Interesting. I could see you going a number of ways.
TOM RIDDLE: You’re wrong! I don’t care about anybody!
SCARFY: We’ll see about that, hot stuff. I think one day you’re gonna find someone real
special. Who am I to slap you with a label! Your future is a blank page, the rest is still
unwritten. Undecided!
I always took that to mean that he was just unsure of who he was, and that eventually he would find Quirrell. To me the line when he's with Bellatrix "He's more of a man than you'll ever be" points to him being gay, but I don't think it's set in stone and he definitely could be something else.
I would love to see Deb and Alice return!
I hope NPMD is a teen-focused show - I would love to see more of deb, alice, ethan, lex, as well as grace chastity, hot chocolate boi (oliver), cineplex kid, & of course, the smoke club. also, if they could squeeze it in, I'd love more "santa claus is going to high school"
I completely agree about the 'word of God' representation not counting. If I, In 2019 have to tell a classmate who liked Harry Potter that Dumbledore is 'confermed gay' then, what even is the point.
It's one of my pet peeves. It goes the other way too. If there's a character that the audience interprets as queer, and then tptb say "no this person is STRAIGHT because i said it!" like i'm not gonna take that as some unequivocal fact. Like the work is the work it doesn't change based on something someone said on twitter and the audience is free to interpret that any way they want. Like, Dumbledore's relationship with Grindlewald (in the books) makes sense from a queer lens, but it's not more or less true because of what JK Rowling said in an interview.
In short, the author is dead, long live the head canon
I think yes that Black Friday not having an LGBT character is disappointing, but having a monologue where he mentions it doesn't seem like it fits in the story that much. McNamara was fighting a giant mind controling alien from a parallel universe so him randomly mentioning "Yeah my husband-" while all this chaos is going on just doesn't make sense to me. Unless it was when he last saw Curt and told him to tell his husband his goodbyes.
i always imagined it after the president left the black and white as a “reflecting on life” sort of monologue if that makes sense?
I thought it would be something like a "say goodbye to my family" or a "this is what I'm fighting for" kind of thing, but I don't know.
That’s exactly what i was thinking. Because there wasn’t really a point in the monologue where he could’ve slipped in husband, except for then. He could’ve said something like “tell my husband i love him” even if it’s really cliche ya know? if even gives him emotional depth.
or if he and Wiley had a romantic past. Wiley said he used to be a colonel and he personally knew McNamara. It definitely seemed they had a real past, more then him being Wilbur who was sent into the black and white.
I would’ve loved to see them incorporate a romantic past.
I would love for McNamara to be canonically gay in general.
love the "okay is wonderful" little banner!
:)
I seem to remember that Nick once said in a livestream that he wouldn't write a trans character unless he knew he had a trans actor who could do them justice. I could be wrong, but I think it was in the golden birthday stream?
Yeah, I think it was in that stream. I hope that happens soon!
Well if he needs a trans actor, he can feel free to hit me up.
It was definitely in a 10iversary stream, and maybe also in the Golden Birthday stream? I dunno man.
I remember it being in the Black Friday fundraising livestream. It could be in the 10iversary too, though, I don't know.
I haven't finished watching the video yet but on one of Jon's livestreams, Robert said that Hidgens' sexuality doesn't influence the way he acts and he also said that Hidgens isn't gay. However, I totally agree with your point about queercoding.
That's interesting to know. I think Robert is amazing as Hidgens and there isn't anything wrong with the way he plays the character. I was looking at it more from the perspective of viewers, and definitely a lot of people interpret his performance as Hidgens being gay. Thanks for watching!
if you're referring to just that livestream, he never specifically said hidgens *wasn't* gay, he just said he wouldn't confirm his sexuality, that none of his choices were influenced by sexuality, and that the viewers can see the character however they want to.
@@JackieBorelli Yeah you're right!! I forgot exactly what he said and I should have checked before commenting lmao
I think Professor Hidgens and Chad should be canon.... why does he always say his name with such emotion?!?!?
and now we have that bit in NT
It is confirmed I think…
You got the thing with Alice only slightly backwards. Overall, she lives in Clivesdale with her mother, but is staying with Bill for the week. She goes to school in Clivesdale, Deb goes to Hatchetfield High, which is where Not Your Seed is set. If the alien is to be believed at all, she'd rather live with Bill than with her mother.
Scarfy and Sorty will forever be my favorite gay couple in starkid. Nick Lang didn't have to go that hard in AVPSY when voicing them but he did and I am forever changed for it.
I feel like one of my problems with Firebringer was that the main relationship felt so rushed and ungrounded, which I thought was a bummer since it was such a good moment for representation, but I'm not personally member of the LGBTQ community, so it's cool to hear your perspective!
I agree. I think it was a little rushed. Firebringer in general was not the most grounded show, but I don't think it took away from the representation. Thanks for watching!
i agree but then looking at how they handled relationships in general (wether it was a hetero passing relationship or not) it kinda fits the pacing
I took the Firebringer main romance coming a bit out of nowhere as part of the joke. Not the "ha-ha they're gay" type joke but "I'm married to everyone" "Why not marry me?" "Okay cool" which is just a funny situation.
I would love a bisexual character, a male would be cool, or not, who cares. Just a bisexual person who doesn't play into the stereotypes or who isn't particularly selfish, greedy, or cheats.
Yes please!
But how would that be done without them either hitting on multiple people or dating multiple people
@@lextatertotsfromhell7673 If they have a boyfriend in the show, they can casually mention having an ex girlfriend (or vice versa). I mean that's something I legit do in real life lol. Or they could even just say "I'm bisexual". Also I don't think a character having multiple partners throughout the show or hitting on people of different genders would necessarily play into the promiscuous bisexual stereotype, it just depends on how you do it.
Silvana Ltd. with that ex part, I didn’t think about it. I would love to hear a natural way for some one to say they are bi out right.
I mean from my own experiences, people say a lot of heteronormative statements that lead to an opportunity to come out casually. Like someone saying "your future husband" and repsonding with "oh well actually im bi so not necessarily a future husband". Like it happens all the time, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to work into a show naturally especially if characters are getting to know each other
Chorn and Tiblyn will forever be iconic.
This video nearly made me cry at points, I'm so proud to be a part of this community. It makes me feel good about myself.
Aw, that's so sweet. Thanks so much for watching!
+
i feel like a lot of people critisise Zazzalili and Jemilla for not being a well developed relationship cause they just professed their love and got married in like 20 minutes but also HAVE YOU SEEN LESBIAN RELATIONSHIPS like if it was 2020 they'd be breaking out the U-Hauls
lol
It's the holding a F/F relationship to a higher standard than other types of couples.
To me, Starship was a very trans/non-binary story, especially with the song "Life" (One mind, one voice, one body to live in) and enby vibes with "Status quo" and with the awkwardness around the humans imitating how it is to be queer among non-queer people. I interpret of a couple characters in MAMD as trans, but it would definitely be nice to see some more specific stuff, more canon stuff. Also I'm enby and I like Starship so it's true
That's a really cool reading! I hope we can get some canon stuff too!
Bug is a he/him lesbian
It's funny bc I remember when your video on this came out last year, which was right after I got into the fandom, so watching this was just the slow realization that I've been in the fandom for a whole year lol.... it's been quite a whirlwind.
Happy one year anniversary then lol
@@SilvanaLTD thanks!
Putting all of Firebringer as number one is such a power move.
happy pride!
Happy Pride!
"the power of gay love is what saves them" hell yeah it does!! i love their relationship so much, how quirrel makes voldemort want to be better :(((
I would love to see Jim Povolo in Starkid again, and xe would make for great representation as well!
Jim Povolo was iconic. Xe should absolutely return to play Ziggs.
@@QuackervoltzWho did xe play? (Sorry I am terrible with names)
All I can say is thanks. Thanks for giving the community such a positive perspective from a fandom created from having fun and laughing, especially with everything going on in the world at the moment. Happy pride!
Thanks for watching! I love talking about this stuff on my channel because we always have such great discussions. Happy pride!
The Starkids and TCB are amazing, they screamed lgbt rights to the skies with their characters 🏳️🌈 happy pride, y’all!
🏳️🌈
I think Doug ( the cop played by Mariah in TGWDLM), should have a bigger role in NPMD, I thought it was actually well written, them being non-binary wasn't a joke or even a plot point but it was very brief & easy to miss.
Wait Doug was non-binary? I totally missed that, I'll have to go and rewatch that part
@@banana_bread_18 It's really brief, possibly hinted at in Show Me Your Hands, Mariah separately confirmed that they're non-binary on her Instagram at the same time as revealing their name.
That's really interesting! It would be cool to bring that character back, although I would like to see a non-binary actor too.
@@SilvanaLTD Yeah, I agree
I'm really glad that you brought that up about Dumbledore! I was a bit uncomfortable too looking back at old clips.
Yeah there's definitely some cringe from the Michigan days, but they've grown so much since then.
Oh this is a very good and well-spoken video! I agree with a lot of your points, especially about Dumbledore. I think I can understand why they would have wanted to be as clear as possible abt him being gay in the show with what JKR was doing at the time, but looking even only now 10 years later, some of the stuff is pretty outdated.
I do also would critisize their jokes about men in dresses. I know most of thrir stuff isn't intented with any malice, but they do seem to have some really uncomfortable stances and ways to deliver. And I get that representing trans characters can seem difficult if you don't know trans actors (i promise they exist!!!!) and you can't tastefully do trans rep without them, and it's not as easy to use for subverting jokes as gay rep
I think I'm rambling and I don't know if I've lost my point but like. I'm not saying genderblind casting is bad, but if your joke is solely "haha this man is wearing a dress" or "haha this man is playing a woman" (especially if the character is predatory/creepily hitting on other people) I think there's some need for improvement
I like to think part of the joke about Umbridge comes more from the fact that even upon first appearance, she’s so different from her movie counterpart BECAUSE she looks brutally strong instead of quite gentle.
@@MostlyAnimatedSketches That's fair! And I do think some of the jokes and subversions on her do land and are pretty funny and good!
BUT there is some stuff that does use some transphobic elements that are uncomfortable to watch. My lense might also be tinted by JKR being a massive transphobe and using very similar language and ideas in her texts :/
Tammi K Also fair.
Thanks for watching! I didn't mention Umbridge in this video because she's not specifically lgbtq, just a drag role, but you bring up a lot of good points. I don't think all drag roles have to be offensive, like you said if the joke is just "hahaha man in a dress", then it's very similar to the "hahaha they're gay" joke. The like the stark difference between movie Umbridge and AVPS Umbridge is funny and there are a lot of great lines (I ate nothing but protein shakes, falcon eggs, and rocks). Where I think it gets more dicey is the storyline with Dumbledore thinking she's a man because it can, even if unintentionally, promote negative and transphobic ideas of what a woman is "supposed" to look like. You also make a good point about JK Rowling's TERF stuff affecting how these things are viewed. It's similar to Dumbledore in that way. Even if we try to ignore her, she is intrinsically linked to Harry Potter, so her opinions of this kind of stuff will always have at least a small impact in how we view Harry Potter related media.
Yeah
“Gay as the 4th of July!”
"I'm magic! I'm gay"
"Me too!"
I love your points on Voldemort being kind of the opposite of the typical queer-coded villain. I was also laughing out loud at all the ways you described the inherent weirdness of Quirrell and Voldemort's relationship - it's very true, sometimes I almost forget.
Honestly agree with all of these, when you first said some of them I would be like "WHAT!?" but your argument always won me over, lol. Thanks for the video, also I love that sign a lot... You should totally do a video including Tin Can content, don't have to but I'd enjoy it,
Thanks! And I do have a whole video about Spies are Forever, but I would love to talk more about Solve it Squad since it's never been featured on my channel.
you are so well-spoken and articulate! i also appreciate that you brought up some of the problematic things in starkid shows because a lot of fans tend to ignore them. i agreed with everything you said except that i would probably put quirrelmort first, but for the most part everything you said was so real and wise
Thank you! I'm really a bumbling mess, but that's the magic of editing lol. And I always think it's important to look at the things we love critically. We can still enjoy things without ignoring their flaws.
I saw the hashtag and for some reason I looked at it for a second and saw “trump2020” and I made such a face, looked back and saw it was “pride2020” and I was like “thank god”
oh god if it did say that i would unsubscribe to myself
Bruh your videos make me so happy. Youre doing great and keep up with your passion!!!!!
Thanks so much!
Just to say something about your point on Voldemort being unreasonably evil in the books/movies. The reason is that Voldemort is so evil is that he can't love because he wasn't born of love (as his mum used a love potion on his dad) and that's what makes him evil. It's showed throughout the series that goodness comes from love. Just to fill you in on that!
Totally! That's a big theme in the books/movies in general. I think AVPSY had a message that ANYONE could love regardless of circumstances if they found the right people. Like Voldemort's family is still bad (if not the horrible evil they are in the books) in AVPSY and he is not born from love, but he still learns to love through finding Quirrell, which is really heartwarming.
i would 100% die for deb and i hope she comes back in nerdy prudes. i’d really love to maybe see her and hot chocolate boy (hopefully) have a good friendship.
The reason I adore the Alice and Deb relationship is that, practically, they could've switched Deb up with a boyfriend named Greg or something and change nothing.
Honestly, as a queer person, I want to see more representation like that. I'm not saying it should be the monopoly. But I like that more stories of this type is happening; where the queerness is incidental and just treated like it's normal is appreciated.
I have to agree, I absolutely love that Bill doesn't have an issue with Deb being a girl, he just loves Alice and thinks she can do better.
*sobs* what a beautiful fresh take and YES TO TCB
Thanks for watching!
Omg, I'm not on twitter so I hadn't known about McNamara and I really hope they explore it in the next musical bc he just goes against all the stereotypes and it would be awesome to have this tough military dude who is in a loving marriage with another man just.. yes. All of it. I want. I need.
One complaint, Alice lived in Clivesdale with her mother. Alice wanted to stay with her Dad and Deb in Hatchetfeild.
id kill for ally beardsley to play a nonbinary starkid character, unfortunately they cannot sing to save their life lmao
They cannot, but they can act up a storm!!!
@@NerdyMariaMania for real!! theyre incredible. probably my biggest inspiration
oh my god this brought me back to Ally singing the national anthem and I just had a full body cringe. I'm sure Starkid could write a non-singing role for them lol.
@@SilvanaLTD i think about that video every day. it haunts me
I would love a trans/nb character. I hope Starkid does this
Edit: typo
I believe Nick said they would if they find a trans/nb actor to play the character
I love your channel! I don't see a lot of discussion based videos in this fandom so thanks for making vids like these!
Happy Pride!
Thanks for watching!
it makes me really mad that so many people in the fandom just outright dismiss zazzalil x jemilla as 'underdeveloped' or 'bad wlw representation'. i don't know how many 'unpopular starkid opinions' videos i've seen where someone says 'i don't like zazzalil x jemilla' like..... no. that's not an unpopular opinion anymore, the majority of the fandom thinks that. most of starkid's relationships haven't really had that much development because they're not known for elaborate romantic plots and firebringer is not an exception. i mean, in the same goddamn show you have grunt x emberly who have even less development and no one's mad about them! if you don't see yourself in their relationship and don't see it as good representation FOR YOU then that's absolutely fine and valid and all that but don't tell others it's 'bad wlw rep' just because you don't like it. (also, they're fucking cave people. give it a rest)
I've seen that happen a lot with "unpopular opinions" where like everyone hs the same one, therefore it's not unpopular lol. I don't think they're bad representation (obviously they're at the top on this list), but i think they are a little underdeveloped compared to say quirrelmort who are similar in that they're an opposites attract kinda couple and they're in similarly comedic shows (as opposed to like tgwdlm or black Friday which are more serious). But i dont think it's as bad as a lot of people seem to think, and i still really like them as a wlw couple.
@@SilvanaLTD yeah i mean of course i would have liked them to have more development and i think quirrelmort is an excellent example on how to achieve character and relationship depth/development in a comedy show. i was so glad to see that you put firebringer at the top of the list because for some reason, so many starkid fans seem to have such a grudge against the show and in particular the main couple, which i just don't understand. it just really sucks that so many people seem to hold lgbt couples to a much higher standard than straight couples, which really limits the ways representation can be implemented, acknowledged and discussed because more often than not it comes down to something being the right/wrong KIND of representation. harry x ginny, tootsie noodles x mega girl, ja'far x sherazade, tarkin x emily, grunt x emberly, all of these are straight starkid couples with very little/no romantic development but no one talks about wanting more development for them because tey work in the context of the story just as jemilla x zazzalil works in the context of firebringer
@@problematic7654 Damn you're right
I always read Hidgens as bi. You've got his relationship with Alexa and his relationship with the working boys.
New otp HidgensxAmazon alexa
About Alice - Deb IS from Hatchetfield, that's why Alice stayed there after the fight, Clivesdale thing comes from Alice living with her mother
Haven't watched this yet, but I never knew I needed this video until now
So I just looked up the AVPSY script and um, I found something, interesting...
“TOM RIDDLE: Hey, Damian. You won't tell anybody about what we did in that cave by the sea, will ya? We were just practicing, weren't we? For when we grow up and have girlfriends or whatever? Right?
DAMIAN: But I thought… Nevermind… You're right, Tom. We were just messin' around. (sheds a single tear)”
I’m not kidding when I say that I’m literally crying right now
For context, this is right when Tom is leaving the orphanage. Damian was the “evil telekinetic anti-christ” (as per Mrs. Cole) who was cut in the online version
Link to the script: m.fanfiction.net/s/8852549/1/AVPSY-script-NOTE-TO-SELF
Yeah they cut some of the sadder parts of Voldemorts sexuality storyline
There was one show from tgwdlm where Nick stood in for Lauren
God I wish we had footage of that.
I loved this video!!! Thanks for distracting me from the world
No problem! Thanks for watching
This is such a good video I swear starkid has such good representation in a subtle way
i always love your discussions/video essays! how scripted are they? you’re so well spoken :)
Thanks! All my video essays and other videos where you can't see my face are 100% scripted. My sit down discussion videos like this or my Black Friday review are semi-scripted. I have an outline and talking points, but not specific phrasing or anything like that. And it takes a lot of editing to make me sound this coherent lol.
i think the lead of nerdy prudes will be gay since bill tried to hook up grace and alice
That's what a lot of people have theorized. I'm down for that.
Silvana Ltd. grace isn’t. Nick confirmed it would be hcb
Great video!
Thanks!
When you mentioned you were grouping things together in the start I knew you were going to put the entirety of Firebringer on first place lol.
CZcams gave me the whole Firebringer as autoplay suggestion under this and I approve
Everytime I think about *okay is wonderful* I just wanna cry
i would absolutely LOVE to see Mcnamara canonically gay! First of all, yes. Second of all, it doesn’t follow pretty much any stereotypes, also GAY MAN IN THE MILITARY
I love your videos!
Thanks!
I wouldn’t place Alice and Deb as high because the most cool thing about them is not actually about them? It’s cool that Bill unconditionally accepts Alice but that’s make _Bill_ a cool character, not Alice.
I see what you mean. I guess I was looking at the overall storyline rather than her specific character, so I was including Deb and Bill in it.
@@SilvanaLTD Yeah, I agree. I maybe don’t appreciate Alice but that overall storyline of unquestionable acceptance is hella cool☺️
I've always interpreted Hidgens as gay. Not because he's a villain (I don't even consider him a villain, just crazy if that makes sense) but just because there's no way in hell that man is straight. Not even just because of Show stopping number, this man just radiates gay energy and I'm here for it. I'm genuinly convinced Workin Boys is just Hidgens writing fanfiction about all his exes being friends and also him still dating all of them.
To be fair, when my mom first heard Show Stopping Number she thought those guys were his exes too lol
I feel weird about Dumbledore's student jokes because there's a very specific context of how many times they're like "these are obviously 20 year olds playing 12 year olds"
yeah it's a weird thing thing to analyze because I know what they were going for but it still makes me very uncomfortable to watch now.
Oh heck yeah
i didnt like spies are forever at all -the songs, beyond the title one, didnt really stick with me and the characters didnt either -but your video analysis sounds really interesting, so i think i may give it another chance!! i agree that firebringer (one of my favorite starkid musicals, as uneven as it is) is kind of the gold standard of lgbtq+ representation -and its really silly, but i still smile when i think of when zazalil gave her blonde friend (cant remember her name) a little kiss on the mouth -it was just a little thing but it felt organic, affectionate and sweet. beyond that, its mostly a matter of what musicals ive enjoyed and which pairings have stuck with me. i like alice from tgwdlm, but her interpretation didnt stick with me half as much as cletus jones' did -even if admittedly it does feel a bit of "haha he gay". its just that the actor's so good.
happy pride, btw! great video!!
Thanks so much for watching. I agree so much with the little kiss. That whole scene is so great. I love Jemilla's "Back in the old tribe I had 0 husbands and 1 wife and that was schwoopsie and then she fuckin told everyone to eat me". And I also agree that Corey elevates Cletus to me by like a million. His delivery is so great. I recommend watching the SaF video even if you didn't like the show (not just because I like promoting my own content, which I do) but it's really more about lgbtq history and how the gay characters are placed within the story rather than a technical analysis like my Twisted video.
I like SAF but found the plot really confusing the first time watching. Not the whole plot, just the bit about Chimera. It kinda felt like there wasn’t enough focus on it because I was really confused when Tatiana started figuring out Owen’s plan. So yeah, unpopular opinion but I like Solve-It Squad more - it’s funnier, more enjoyable imo, and I really liked all the characters. Owen is a great villain though, and I do love two amazing things in Spies: Joey’s British accent and all the jackets, because everyone looks good in jackets.
@@MostlyAnimatedSketches I think Solve it Squad had a much tighter script, but I like the concept and characters in SaF more. Also yes about the jackets lol. I'm pretty sure Curt's jacket is actually his irl.
Silvana Ltd. I suppose I agree with you there!
lauren's said she doesn't like doing stage kisses (which, good for her, it is awkward), which is why you never see her kiss anyone in the filmed starkid shows. denise was the only exception, I guess.
I've never thought about Hidgens' sexuality before... but now that I have he feels aromatic to me? I dunno about his sexuality but aro just feels right for some reason
This is what I want to believe
•Linda Monroe is actually a lesbian
•professor Hidgens is straight
And I only believe this because my bi self has a crush on both of these characters
I think it _would_ be sweet that Dumbledore is sort of mentoring Voldemort in AVPSY, but it ends up feeling more like Dumbledore is making assumptions and trying to find a way to connect that doesn't really fit, because he _immediately_ goes there, and also because we are never shown young Voldemort struggling with his feelings or anything (I know some things were cut from the youtube version)
nick lang: we haven’t written nonbinary characters because we don’t have nonbinary actors to play them
jim pavolo: am i a joke to you?
I also wish there was a trans/nb character and I also think it would be really cool to see a canonically asexual character on starkid, I was almost disappointed to hear general macnamara was written gay cause I guess I kind of headcanon him as ace? They're not mutually exclusive but I would like to see where they will take a canonically ace character
i think nick lang said they want to have trans characters played by trans actors and actresses. as for enby, doug (mariah’s cop in show me your hands) is nonbinary apparently. and i totally agree about general mac.
He can be gay and ace.
Chorn is a men in the tribe (as an alien I don't know).
Someone else commented about this. I think Chorn has kind of an ambiguous gender as an alien. Like Chorn doesn't exactly fit into a human idea of gender.
I don't think McNamara having a husband was cut from the lore per-se, just cut from Black Friday. I'm 100% confident it's still happening, just in a future installment in the Hatchetfield series.
Then again, it's been a year and I haven't been keeping up with Starkid news so well so maybe this has all already been confirmed/denied lol
The point that you made at 2:20 is how I feel about Nia Nal in Supergirl. She is a transgender woman but they don’t focus on that.
That's cool! I don't watch that show but I've heard good things. I didn't know there was a trans character in it.
Hey! I really love your videos, but I think a way that you could improve the quality would be to fix the camera angle. This definitely doesn't affect the things you are saying, but it's a bit awkward that 2/3 of the screen has nothing going on and you're just at the bottom. I'm not saying this to be mean, it's just a tip. As I said, I really think your videos are great. I also recognize that you don't do this kind of video often so you are fairly new to it. I think this could just help the overall production of your videos and people would want to watch longer.
No thats a great suggestion! I was having trouble with my tripod. Im trying to figure out the best place to record in my house and i definitely had too much headspace in this vid, i just didn't realize until i was done filming. Thanks for watching!
@@SilvanaLTD yeah I figured it had something to do with that. Like I said, I still really enjoyed this video! Can't wait for more content :D
Some college kids really wrote a better romance than a professional author.
how is it that i agree with you completely on this
Well, I do have a college degree now, so I'm pretty sure that legally you have to agree with everything I say.
6:45 I do agree with everything that you said buuuut the thing is that the guy who didn't like musicals is basically just a huge musical cliche and making fun of that so I think that it wouldn't be problematic if Hidgens was a very stereotypical gay character since it fits the overall context of the show and it's by far not their only queer character... like the other ones aren't stereotypes so they obviously don't think or see gay ppl like that
Yeah that's a good point that when you have more variety of characters it's not as big a deal for them to all be "perfect representation".
I think we're headcanoning Hidgens as queer because whatever the working boys had going on it was not 100% straight. The way he says "and... Chad!"? He's in love. He's grieving. He's nostalgic. He's longing. He's everything. They were boyfriends.
Definitely has gotten truer the more we know about Hidgens. When the show first came out there was more regular old shipping, which I am obviously not against, I just saw some takes at the time that leaned into stereotypes a bit and I think it's always good to question the reasoning behind these things, even if the answer you find is just "well I just think it's fun", I think it's a good idea to be critical of media including fan made media. This video has led to some of the most enlightening conversations surrounding Starkid I'm always glad to hear more people's perspectives :)
16:26 catra's gay love is what saved her soul AND the entire universe so like. checkmate voldemort
Not going to lie, Zazilil and Jemila never worked for me because I always shipped Zaz with Keeri. I thought they were so much cuter...
I'm down for Zaz and Keeri
Zazzalil has two hands
I love Alice and Deb because it’s not relevant to the plot that they’re gay, they just are. And I think more movies should have that, just lgbt characters that are just there.
Yeah, but not starting in the musical that they are indeed gay does not change that the character still canonical is gay. It is not as representativ but in spies are forever, we all know too without it beeing called out, it still deines the whole story. Not every gay person wears something with rainbow on it or mentiones their sexuality every other sentence
I agree! You don't necessarily have to use the word "gay" for a character to be canonically gay, but you do have to have some indication of their sexuality for it to be "canon"
Bellatrix is also black, but she is a smaller character and not as important to the storyline
She is (and I love Britney) but she's not an LGBTQ character.
But wasn’t Voldy bi or pan?
Not 100% sure. He did have a relationship with bellatrix, but when they get back together in AVPM he says about Quirrell to her "he's more of a man than you'll ever be" which points to gay for me. In a cut scene in AVPSY scarfy specifically doesn't label him, so I think it's open to interpretation.
Hidgens is not a villain what..
How many of the Starkid actors are actually not straight?
I think Clark is bisexual. I read it somewhere but I'm not sure. And Jim is enby (?)
Brant (roach from starship) is also gay
james tolbert (xander lee in bf) is also gay i believe.
Meredith is also bisexual.
Oh Robert also came out as bi recently