Chain Drive vs Gear Drive Cams : Pro Tip
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2021
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If you have a Twin Cam or Milwaukee Eight powered Harley Davidson and plan on upgrading your cam setup then you will eventually be faced with the choice of using chain driven or gear driven cams. There are pros and cons to each type of cam, but the decision doesn't have to be a difficult one, we walk you through the positives and negatives along with some of the technical considerations that need to be addressed when choosing the type of cams for your bike.
#GearDriveCams #TwinCam #MilwaukeeEight - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I appreciate your videos! You have my business because you take the effort to show these how-to's.
gear driven worked for years without any problems , this was all about getting bikes back into the shop for repairs and costs to the owners, the same as vehicles , to eliminate the backyard mechanic and those that like to do their own work
Yep, chain drive for sure. Not racing and pulling the motor apart every month or so, just riding for fun.
Remember, FORD was Fast On Race Day, and Cadillac was Get To Where You Are Going and Still Make It Home!
Thanks i needed this knowledge! Much Love from Canada!
Your videos TEACH us! We are Grateful!
Very informative! Thanks for sharing.
As a confirmed gearhead; all my friends & family have confirmed this, I prefer the whine of gear driven cams over the whir of chains
That’s the only complaint I have with my 2018 Wing
😉
Great comparison! Thank you.
Best video I have seen on this topic.
Nice video. Very informative. Thanks
Damn good info! Thanks!
I have the S&S 509g cam and cam chest kit in my 2002 fxstd. It’s been amazing for me.
Very well covered , hit all the bases !
My 2010 RG with 96 Twin Cam is getting that exact same gear system right now.
Super helpful. thanks
Thank you Patrick
Interesting useful info, made me really think about the choice before l made a mistake, thank you
This was an excellent explanation. Thank you.
This info was very concise and informative. I myself built my 95" with gear drive, Andrews 37g cams, Feuling plate & pump and S&S crank...man, I love the set up!
I think this is the way to go on my 01 fxstd coming up on 22k miles
What was cost and any special problems?
sounds like a killer set up bro ride safe
I have a 2010 fat bob with about 17K on it always wondered abut the tension springs and the oil pump.
Oil pump upgrade is suggested by some videos I watched
Does J&P have any non HD related videos? I have a 2007, 865cc Triumph Bonneville T100 with carburetors. I would love to see some maintenance videos about it.
This video set me straight.
Hydraulic in my 03.
Thanks.
I bought a used 2003 Electra glide classic that I didn’t know it had gear drive installed already. however I don’t want to tear it down to see the inside ? I did take the stock push rods out and replace them with the S&S adjustable push rods the bike runs great but by watching this video it got me concerned about what’s inside ? Any recommendations? Thanks
your smarter than u look ,ive learn alot thank u
Good video 👍
glad i watch this, thanks
Hey thanks 😊 great 😊 info
If I were to go with the s&s power package, that comes with their crank shaft and fly wheel? Or do I need to also purchase those? New to this.
Patrick is the goat when it comes to everything on a Harley Davidson
Thanks Man excellent information
All the best from NZ🇳🇿
I’ve got this exact bike can we get a bike check on that 03 dyna
Had the full S&S chain drive, mild performance cams, inner plate and oil pump done on my '06 Springer Classic as did my son on my old '01 Roadking. Both are TC 88's. We went to Ronnies V Twin in Willis, Texas planning on gear cam swaps and Ronnie said the exact same thing as on this video. Both bikes run great and no reliability issues for years to worry about..Anyone living in the greater Houston area should check out Ronnies. Legit, honest and great work done. Not getting anything, just a happy customer.
What did this setup run you boss
Doesn't the Feuling cam plate allow for more run out on the pinion shaft than the recommended 3/1000?
Can I installed this on my RoadKing Special 2019 with 30 000KM ?
You open my eyes, many many thanks.
Spot on 😊
When do you need to replace the chain for chain drive ?
Thank you ;)
Hi I am from the future, 😂 Great review, I have just recently purchased a 03 Twin cam deuce, Because of age and mileage approximately 50,000, I thought I better look inside to see what I’ve been replaced, It’s had a new primary chain tensioner by the looks of it. The pad is only just marked., but I think as I’ve got it apart, I will replace it, then inspected the cam chest, it’s been converted to gear drive, with S&S components, but the plate itself is still HD, And wondering whether I should change the plate as well, what is your opinion, please?,
And should there be any play in the gearing on the ends of the cam , it all seems rock solid, and there has been a misfire on the engine every time I open the subtle, I think I might have found the problem with an air leak, it has a HSR 42 carbon, the plugs though seem very very black,
Which I was thought if I was on here, it would be lame , I wonder if you can advise, please, In 1999 2000 I did purchase a brand-new deuce, sadly I had to sell it in 2019, but I had spent a lot of money on. It had big kit cams auto pumps that the lot was done on it. It always ran very strong. Never had any problems., one other problem with this bike? I just recently purchased serious problem with the alarm system., I don’t like it and I wish to remove it, but been told by HD that I can’t do it, not without great expense, I’ve always found your territorials very helpful. Keep up the great work., from France.
Short of the "wobble" problem, would using crankshafts basically be stronger and last alot longer than a chain? If done right, the crankshaft setup should run for the life of the bike and never need to be replaced. And a side note: "Hydraulic anything is better than "springs"!
I put this setup on my 01
Can you give an estimate of how much it would cost to upgrade to the gear drive system & a new crankshaft & flywheel?
A lot. I’m guessing since you are asking you aren’t going to be doing the work yourself. You can get your crank trued by revolution in Plymouth wi or dark horse. Prices vary but both very good. Figure somewhere between 12-16 hours shop time. If they aren’t a machine shop cases sent to a machine shop to pull crank and then reinstall that a couple more hours of time. Every gasket in the motor. Depends on which motor you have but probably another 1500-2000 for cam chest. With gear drive. I’m thinking with many different variables anywhere from 4500-6000 grand
Guru of all that is HD.....
Bottom line the more runout you have the more the gear drive backlash will change. Chains are “forgiving” the gears will eat themselves when the backlash is excessive
I I was thinking just put gear driven camshafts in to eliminate the inner tensioner, but still run the outter chain and tensioner. I can't find anyone that just sells the cam's seperately
@@brycegould7939 can’t say I’ve ever heard of trying that…not saying it’s wrong.
@@brycegould7939 I don't think that's possible because the gear driven cam turns the opposite direction to the chain driven cam.
Great info , but what if you just want to bulletproof your engine, what setup would be best?
Gear drive is the way to go
@@Mathaury if i go gear drive and later switch to chain again would a crank case with less than .0003 runout work with chain or only with gear?
@@Cheaps928 it will work
@@ihatesjws1188 thanks i think i was high asf when i asked that question hahaha
what about the oil pump if you got run out on the crank pinion its also going to eat up your oil pump too
There is more "play" in the oil pump than there is between the mesh of gears in gear drive cams. Its definitely not ideal but the run out would have to be a huge amount to effect the pump.
Well, I wanted a gear drive setup before I watched this video, but now, I'm good with just doing the hydraulic tensioners/oil pump upgrade...& I think I can just use my stock cams, so that would also save a few bucks...I'm not trying to win any races, I just want to ride cross-country without my engine exploding...Lol!
same!
Same here...when I upgrade it will be with the hydraulic tensioners and new oil pump. Although the gear drive has its advantages I became concerned when the speaker described the " shift" that can happen over time which can lead to gears damage with pricey repair I'm sure.
I have an ‘06 Dyna with about 60 thousand miles on it. Not ridden hard. Should I be checking the chain tensioner? How do I know if it needs replacement? Thanks.
Your should have the hydraulic tensioner, and if you have 60K on it I would have the tensioner checked at the next service. Easy to do by just pulling the cam cover off. If you don’t do your service yourself the tech can do it and if it’s not bad it should only add about an hour of time to the work order.
But at that mileage, if you are pulling the cover to check it just replace it anyway. IMHO.
I believe dynas has hydraulic cam chain tensioners in 06 models. They were the first. But double check me on that.
I've listened to one mechanic promote hydraulic, because of run out, and another mechanic who says he's never seen gears get messed up?
Thanks for the crank runout info, , gonna stay with chains and new tensioners, to old to go fast
Sportster Engines are Gear Driven Cams. Loud. But seem to last.
GM had a 2.5 (Tech 4) Gear Driven Camshaft.
Does the gear driven cam rotate in the opposite direction as a chain driven cam?
Yes. Thats how gears work
Yes, and the lobes are reversed on the front cam, because it's direction of rotation is reversed
Algorithm knows me too well. I was just about to research this more for my M8. 😂
Thought it was Will Sasso for a sec.
can you please Please PLEASE preface your You-Tube VIDEOS with which ENGINE FAMILY you are working on on the "TITLE" ?
I would go work on my motorcycle if I had some parts coupons.
What about noisy loud gear drives con ?
only when not done right mine are quite
Pretty sure runout is more than 3 thou limit ?
I think it is 5
S&S says 3 thousandths, there are some builders that do say 5. I'd lean towards the side of caution. When my Dyna flywheels shifted it broke the stock cam plate (stock motor with intake/exhaust/carb and 24,000mi) . I checked when the shifted they were 47 thousandths!
-Patrick
@@jpcycles bit rude that to happen .downer on Harley
@@jpcycles info i got S&S measure the gear backlash in 4 spots
Harleys tolerances are so sloppy its probably hard to find three thousands are less.
Bottom line is Harley got cheap, with a pressed rank like on twin cams they almost had to go chain drive because they are so sloppy. The did it to save money, theirs a reason why the Evo was so dependable
You forgot one of the biggest Pro's of the gear drive ... to tensioner (spring or hydraulic) pad to wear out. Even the new pads wear out, there is no way around it. You basically have a somewhat rough piece of metal rubbing against a piece of plastic at high RPMs.
The newer tensioners stay lubricated vs the old style. Most of them will not wear out vs the life of the bike…
Buy a shovel head no problem ,if you need more power buy a kawasaki
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
The gear driven cam is more positive but I think with the chain driven ones you can run higher rpm.
Gears are the way to go, why on earth would you use some chincy chain with an oil pressure fed tensioner? 80% of engine wear occurs during startup, when you have zero oil pressure, and you are relying on a chain that is not tensioned on an interference motor with 4 valves per cylinder... on startup.
If Harley had designed their engines properly in the 1st place instead of saving a few bucks. We all wouldn’t have to deal with this. They should’ve!! been sued into oblivion for that
Chain drive= nooners nooners=life
Huh?
Gear drive looks more fragile. Just a single tooth contacting (maybe 2 teeth)
I thought the same and I was really concerned when the speaker mentioned "shift" which can happen over time which can lead to gears failure. Pricey fix I'm sure.