Stop Comparing War Thunder to DCS
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- čas přidán 21. 01. 2024
- The community constantly compares War Thunder to DCS, which is not a good idea for various reasons. I talk about why this is and how they are different games entirely.
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Music: War Thunder New OST - Air Forces - Hry
I'm literally better than you because i click the buttons in dcs (this makes it an objectively better game and by extension I am the superior person)
So True!
No because i button press better in SIM vr! (i am the best)
I mean technically he has more brain tasking demand and is able to do it across multiple plataforms, with totally different performances and philosophies, like going from an f18 to a mirage you can see how different the frenchies do things lol, so technically he is better, now is that fun for everyone? No, Star Citizen its a good example, they wanted to bring manual cockpits, and thats a bad idea, that will add a lot of tedium to an already tedium creep game, apples to apples
Also 90% of DCS players fall in the newby category, they play in noob servers like growling sidewinder or blue flag, so dont feel bad about it, most of them are worst pilots than WT pilots, just play 1 day in GS server, you will see what i mean 😂😂😂
Nuh uh
bro we are clearly so superior to this War Thunder people, they think they can have a decent game without clicking buttons!11!!!!11!!!!!!
Button supremacy (i forgor how to fly most of my planes help)
Thank you: I really just need to scratch an itch when war thunder fans believe they are playing a hyper realistic jet simulator
People who compare WT to DCS please reply here so we can insult you
Why cant you compare them? Each has its own strength and weaknesses. Try to think of a newbee who wants to decide which game is better for him and where he puts his money into.
Gray area - I make war thunder cinematics. War thunder replay is shit. I desperately want a refined replay system like DCS 😭
If you're going to say that the weapon systems in DCs are modeled wrong you could at least comment on how the weapon systems more Thunder are absolutely modeled wrong because they have to be balanced
So the point on chaff in DCS is incorrect.
If you just poop out chaff without notching, it will not do anything.
You have to notch to get effect from chaff. As seen from the numberous SEAD missions I've done in game. You cannot fly inti a SAM nest and chaff like flares. You MUST notch the radars locking you.
You have to chaff and also have some good background. Chaff and notching might not be enough. Also fly low to have good background made by terrain.
lots of people with speed up when trying to defeat radars too, which only makes it easier for them to pick you out of clutter.
@@TonerLow try notching a s300 site with 250 knots lol
As a dcs guy I would like to try war thunder one day. Dcs is a study sim and eagle dynamics tries to model as close to possible to the real thing.
I fly on DCS and play on war thunder. I have all the US aircraft available there and I can tell you from my experience that it is not worth getting into.
I used to really enjoy War Thunder, mostly for the tanks. But it just turned in to a grind when I reached a certain point and suddenly I was fighting much better tanks due to the matchmaking, and having to get everything on the tank upgraded just made it worse. Wasn’t so bad in low tiers but just seems to get worse the higher I got.
Wanted to get in to the Air Sim mode when I got VR, but it never felt right. Started looking around and found DCS.
I’d go back to WT tanks if they got the matchmaking a little more even, and maybe didn’t have massive updates that didn’t seem to actually change anything which also annoyed me. Still, had a lot of fun playing low tier tanks.
I'm playing War Thunder from 2014 and i do still have fun. I can recommend!
@@henrycastle6584 war thunder is a game . Dcs is more like a sim for learning.
Although both are shit when you try to understand aerodynamics.
Play war thunder if you want to play an unique game, play dcs if you are a guy with lot of time who can invest his life on something that he would never use .
@@mentally-stable-human least mentaly stable human pov
I don't like reading 830 page manuals on how to configure ILS, let alone get in the air. I'm fine with War Thunder, I love it. If I want to push buttons in a plane game, I go to VTOL VR. I have like $250 in modules and I just barely touch the game.
VTOL VR is a blast
You dont need to read 830 page manuals to configure ILS, or do anything else for that matter. Your mindset is the reason you bought all these modules but never learned any of them... Sims are not made fot people that have no patience or will to learn. You like mindless fun, hence why you prefer war thunder.
I don't think I've ever done a proper ILS in DCS. Hell, I haven't even scratched the surface of any single plane. I did some tutorials and there's a ton of "60 second" youtube videos for any topic you want. Hell, the A-10C startup procedure is still permanently in my head after 10 years and the longest part is waiting for the computer to boot up. I take more time deciding what weapons I want than starting up and taking off. Once you're flying, you just fly. If you don't want to play with JDAMs, take iron bombs and rockets. I know that VTOL is really popular right now but I see it on the same level as DCS. You don't have to use half the stuff in DCS unless you really want to. Once you're off the ground you just need a few basics and you're set. IMO.
@@henrycastle6584 funny, and yet I enjoy other sims with ridiculous detail.
@@690_5 The only funny thing here is you throwing away your money while conning yourself into believing that you "enjoy other sims with rediculous detail"...
*Congratulations, you played yourself*
did any DCS players leak secret documents?
I think an employee got in trouble with an F16 manual lol
No. So war thunder is better
@@MonkeFlip2000 not the players but the devs , yes
Comparing War Thunder to DCS is like comparing COD to Hell Let Loose.
the true comparison. We dont leak classified documents to win a reddit argument. End of the story
For all intends and purposes this is a joke
Have you made any DCS videos? I only find wt videos.
I dont care; I'd rather spend 1 week learning how to use a module than 1 month trying to get one.
As for DCS using RNG to determine some things like the chances for a flare to decoy a missile, that may be better and more realistic in some cases. Because even if you have a simulation of that in WT, the simulation you have may not be true to life. For example Humans Fall Flat is a physics simulation game, but it's not true to life, the physics simulated are the physics writen into the game, and while they are truely simulated and in many ways aproximate reality, they are also a far cry from it. On the other hand if you take an RNG based on an actual military prediction of X type of flare has a % chance of spoofing Y missile, you may be closer to reality as long as the military prediction is correct.
I'll even go as far as saying in some things i'd rather DCS went for RNG instead of trying to simulate every single element. Foe example for years bombs in DCS only took into acount their fragmentation damage, blast damage being completly ignored. ED usually figures if they can't simulate someting close to 100% they rather leave it out, I think this is an aproach that leaves the simulation Poorer. Much easier than the guestimating the effectiveness of flares is giving a bomb a probability of kill based on distance, bomb and target type, because this is something militaries and tested to exaution and there's ample data on it. So calculating every single shrapnel actually bogs the simulation down, and makes simulating large scale conflict dificult, if not impossible. And don''t even get me started on cluster bombs.... while very impressive to see all those submunition individually simulated.... again something bogging down any system or server, making large scale conflict with multiple aircraft employing simultaneouly, such weapons across an entire theater of operations.... well, impossible really.
So.... RNG, not necessarily bad or unrealistic, it all depends on the numbers and how close the data avaiable matched real world performance.
Is there a game in between the 2 cos i play wt cos my pc can barely run dcs even on low settings
They are literally two completely different games just because they have planes does not mean it’s the same game 💀 w vid man
Same deal with terreria and mincraft they shouldn't be compared
Sir Yappington
Expected a schizo take.
Stayed for a sane video.
Congratulations, your better then 99% of other CCs and Redditors.
As a lover or WoT, WoWS, Ace Combat and DCS, I wanted to like WT, I really did. Sadly it needs to make up it's mind as to what it wants to be. It's realistic mode is hardly realistic(speaking as one that as been in aviation RL for 27 years) and it's arcade mode is too simplistic to keep my interested. That said, WoWS doesn't try to be realistic nor does WoT. WT needs to get out of its own way and either embrace the arcade or get with it and make it closer to XPlane and MSFS. Anything I can fly with a mouse and keyboard and out perform someone with a HOTAS is not even remotely realistic.
Meh. Wot is a joke game only interested in your VISA. I started in Beta. I remember when it was a game. Now it is just a study in micro transactions that stoppped being mico a long time ago. If you don't like this opinion, that's cool. But it is an accurate description of the game.
as someone who plays both, i really wish DCS had War Thunders missile and cm logic, simple things like IR missiles not being able to pick up heat sources through clouds, SARH missiles actually having different seeker heads etc
Afaik clouds have an effect, but dont completely render ir missiles useless. Ive shot many fox2s into clouds with no success.
@@GimbalLocksOnly no it has no effect, clouds do not mess with ir missiles in DCS
All that is on the way, likely with the Vulkan update. The thing you have to remember is DCS is a 15 year old game
@@hresvelgr7193 yea but it also takes ED forever to add this stuff. its a bad excuse
Exactly the same case with comparing World of Tanks to War Thunder
Im not generally against war thunder. But they burry the sim battles more and more with each update + economy + grind + balance, that suppused to be good in ftp. Its simly not worth it, I better buy the module for DCS that costs me the same as top tier premium in WT, the feel of that aircraft will be much better. And with Enigma who have put into balancing way more thought on his server pvp becomes a much better experience.
Gaijin already took more that 10k hours of my life, no more will be spent there. The toxic ex-like relationships with WT are over for me)
There is also some info about dcs is just wrong in the video. The propper flaring does not guarantee the missile missing irl. In both games the missiles are modeled not predetermined. In DSC they are modelled closer to reallity, since the devs at least use irl data to model the aircrafts and armament. The WT does not. WT is an arcade with semi realistic physics with data pulled out of the bottom hole of the devs. So yeah it should be not compared to any flight sim.
@@timesplasher1174 You're completely wrong. The SU-27 and F-15 in WT both line up exactly to their EM charts and flight data, from their respective sources. DCS does not model IRCCM or proper countermeasure rejection period. Flares/Chaff act like literal RNG in DCS, meanwhile flares in WT are actual objects with proper rise time temps that do affect the seekers properly of missiles. All the FC3 aircraft are complete fantasty, as well as some of the Heatblur modules. Lets not forget, the 1960s R530 in DCS can out pull the TVC R-73, which is just utter nonsense.
@@TheDAWinz ok, I was wrong on the statement above and take it back, with appology to Will. The R530 I assume is frome Mirage F1 module that is still in development, if so there is a lot wrong with that module outside the missile performance. I will disagree with statementon FC3, FC3 is an old module and slowly reciewes is PFM, I fill that mig 29 is way better represented in DCS vs WT.
ps. not all missiles in wt perform as they should, as an example: Harriers SRAAMs does not pull 20gs)
@@TheDAWinz Wrong. Chaff is not RNG in DCS. FC3 aircraft are not complete fantasy, several of them have better flight models then WT.
You should give more examples on what models are good an what are bad.
You all do know this guy is just trying to start drams so you will comment right, fk now I commented, just know everything on YT is a trick in fact stop watching it. lol. No DCS is not a game it's a simulator get it right dude. There is a huge difference between a game and a sim. Both have game aspects but one is doing it's best to sim reality as best as we can at this point.
Fr, ppl mostly think everything in DCS is more realistic because it’s a more realistic game, I get that’s but it’s still a game at the end of the day and isn’t perfect like u said. I also think it’s mostly to do with the player base like I don’t see no one dropping classified docs in DCS
in dcs its not the players but the devs, a russian dcs dev was arrested for smuggling and selling f16 manuals
IMO, I'm not sold on DCS being "the most realistic" -- but I see it as a systems simulator rather than a flight simulator. The flight might also be good, but there are some limitations with flight model X or weapons system Y or radar Z... That said, even just recently they've been updating the F-16 flight model, the radar functionality of several planes, and a number of other things. They're always updating modules even after you buy them. A-10 radio modules swapped out with updates, new functionality added to the Mirage I think, new versions of the 190F planned to be added to 190A owners, a free version of the Tomcat (early). DCS's missiles have undergone several drag/physics redoes in the past 5 years that I can think of, and it's always under improvement. I take all that as positives in favor of it. The devs are very involved in it. Part of me moved to DCS from simpler sims for the realism in the targetting pods, the radar systems, the cockpit utility, etc. The "systems simulator" part of it has been the lure for me in recent years.
The first part of your comment pretty much makes the rest of it even more stupid sounding. "People think it's more real because it's more real"? What kind of political double speak is that?
He obtained them illegally and was not part of the F-16 team in the first place and he was fired and the documents were kept out of any illicit hands, unlike the Discord retard.@@trfpvVT
As one that has flown the Huey in real life in the Army, I can tell you it has some flaws but there is not in home simulator software that does it better. Not even XPlane comes close to the helicopters in DCS.@@marklittrell3202
you lost me at "Some are just staright up moddeled wrong" when referencing DCS. It's actually considered a more accurate flight sim than MSFS by flight models. So I find it highly unlikely, unless you have sources, that your claim is remotely accurate.
While I agree with the premise and title of this video, your conclusions seem unaccurate
MiG-21 is broken flight model wise, as are the FC3 modules.
SOME flight modelling is really good, and DCS definitely does the modelling of the air very well, but it's a mixed bag.
@@aadvantagegold5220 well if you watch the F4 trailer they get down to every single gimbal gear and bolt to function independently and real in detail.
Remember that any module added officially to DCS is scrutinized by ED
@@aadvantagegold5220To be fair, FC3 is 20 years old and was good for its time. They leave it in as simplified flight models. I don't have the MiG-21, but I hear it is a compromise for a couple of similar versions and is also one of the earliest modules to be made. If it's ever revisited, it'll be "fixed" but it and the F-5 are kind of ... in limbo let's say. For now, at least.
@@marklittrell3202 This is the point in the video exactly. It’s wildly inconsistent.
@@aadvantagegold5220Eh, more like “mildly” inconsistent.
I absolutely love the increase of Sim players making CZcams videos recently! Couldn’t agree more with your take here, best of luck!!
Re DCS controls. You can used the exact same controls for every aircraft in DCS except for aircraft specific controls.
I know because I use the same joystick and throttle and keyboard map for the F-14 and the F-16 except that in the F-14 I have a wing sweep controls
The stuff about chaff is completely wrong. Chaff doesn't work if you don't notch
2:30 a strong statement. I'll check it out.
Big thing about war thunder is that it is much cheaper, not including in-game $$$ or DCS modules.
A decent thrustmeter, pedals, bigger monitor, and all other ancillaries, might as well throw a track-ir in there, it is very easy to spend thousands on peripherals alone. Sure most of it is not strictly required but it makes a profound difference having a quality stick and a good set of pedals. war thunder is very playable keyboard & mouse for the most part.
it`s like comparing Arma 3 to squad, sure in some ways very similar sort of a ``cut from the same cloth`` kind of feel, but they are in the end *very* different games
your statement on radar, missile and flight models in dcs is just straight up yapping💯 you do know there's a difference between a stick&rudder aircraft and flybywire aircaft? do you know the difference between an aim-9x and aim-9b? are you aware that aircraft like the f5 and f14 have completely different radars? the video introduction is somewhat fair and valid but the rest is straight up hating on dcs... your "chance" statements is the biggest load of bs i've ever heard and your inconsistency & innaccuracy statements too //hope you read this, from a war thunder player❤
Let's make one thing strait, DCS is a simulator and not a game but War Thunder is a game. I mean don't get me wrong War Thunder is a load of fun to enjoy yourself but the reason why people play DCS is for realism, that is the reason why you also have to set the controls up on each module individually, it's so that people have more emersion and realism in the plane. I mean I have never heard of a plane pulling more than 10Gs in real life without ripping the wings off, in War Thunder I've never ripped the wings off but in DCS at least 20 times.
mig29 casually pulling 16Gs in dcs while limited to like 13-14 Gs in war thunder
@@hemendraravi4787warthunders flight models are ass
war thunder is arcade, dcs is sim thx
All missiles in DCS are done by ED, so there are no inconsistencies there for there reasons you state, there may be inconsistencies, just no t because as you state, that some modules are done by 3rd parties.
But I agree, DCS is not a perfect game or simulator, and some things will always be off from reality, even on professional and military simulators the FM aren't 100% acurate, because it's hard to account for every single thing that impacts an aircrat and it's flight characteristics. DCS is not reality, and if someone thinks otherwise they are gravely mistaken. Having said that, WT is absolute arcade when compared to DCS, DCS tries to simulate things, WT is a combat game aproximating a light sim. That doesn't mean that being good dogfighting in WT you can't go into DCS and be imediatly good at it, since that is a lot more about understanding the geometry of the fight and having situational awareness to fight effectively.
dcs may take longet to fix a bug, But dcs actually has a flight modell. besides fix ur flares and missles bevore u comment on how bad they are compared to dcs!!
Dcs takes too much time to learn something that you will never need. It isn't really like a game if you also consider the price of those jets in dcs .
At least war thunder is more friendly to people who wanted to play a game that's not too unrealistic or hyper realistic (so much that you would need to sell everything to get the right equipments to play )
So people who are thinking of joining DCS , do it only if you have too much time and you don't mind learning stuff that is useless to you.(We all know mist of you are never gonna make it to the air force with that shittty brain)
Like DCS is closest to reality we can get. Missiles and chaff, flares are useful and it really depends on type of missile aka aim9L/M is way easier to dodge than aim9X., Flight model, are you kidding ? They literally take real life performances on video and from that by computer they make it behave that way, even real pilots who try that are impressed by many things, does it have fault ? Yes, but many things you stated seems more like opinion without knowledge. It is no hate comment, but you clearly do not know enough about DCS. And it is getting better, for example RWR and radar on F4 coming is big change, even simulated lights,pressure,stall of engines, circuit breakers, etc. It is much more in depth, it is not just click click and so on, but you need to learn many things, refuel,proper weapon managment, count fuel, engine managment,limitations, AOA, etc. everything counts while war thunder players dont even know what it is. Yes different games, let anyone play what they want, but commenting on DCS without knowledge is weird and we can see that. I played WT so i can comment on some things, but it is arcade game and it should be treted that way, it has nothing to do with reality. DCS is not real, but closest we can get. And of course experience in DCS is great, friendships made and no kids, thats probably best, not toxic community like in other games.
I've played a lot of flight sims. Got the DCS f-16, literally took 2 weeks to get off the ground. It's incredibly demoralizing and I wouldn't recommend it unless you REALLY want the realism.
2 weeks to get off the ground, did you try follow the tutorials?
it took me a day or two
Bro it took me fucking 3 hours to learn the entire plane. its so easy
@@koocoocroc1235 I mean yea to take off to master would take 2 weeks 😂
@@marcbenton7211 exactly
You definitely dont play DCS to much lol, chaff is basically usless in DCS, you cant just chaff and the missiles will miraculously miss, in fact if i can i dont even carry chaff, only flares, since in hard core servers flares are death or life equipment
How do you know WT models things correctly? Because Gaijin tells you? How can you corroborate it? You dont even have tac view to test performances and you talk about how much better WT moddels are... like bro get real
How can you say that when the f14 was firing phoenixes and they werent even lofting lol, i mean you are using your radar from the pilot seat but you claim weapons and systems are better model in WT? Hahaha
Do you even use laser codes? O no? But how? If WT mods every better you should ingress your codes on your computer and program your JDAMS
DCS has problems, it has, lots of them, but its far superior to WT, that its an arcade gsme that quickly releases 100 vehicles per year
I mean how many navy and air force pilots you have making videos testing the fidelity of war thunder? How many of them worked on the development of the airplanes? Exactly
You play WT? Fine, but dont come with that bulshit "gaijin models everything better" because i play WT
One its a sim the other its a simple arcade for the masses, has problems, yes it does and will always have, but at least dont use the trust me bro as evidence of performance
Watch video carefully instead of filling gaps with ur bias, same can be said about dcs, that u trust them bcs they told you its realistic, no one can compare Real life weapons system with this, and phoenixes do loft i wt, Just not on close distance when ur alredsy high enough
bro didn't even watch the video 💀
@@allir1891 he literally just said that, WT moddels better DCS bad modeling
Please tell me where? All I said was DCS isn’t perfect and is inconsistent in what is accurate or not. I didn’t say War Thunder models everything perfectly and everything in DCS is wrong. Just that they’re two separate games for different audiences and neither is perfect, and that you can’t compare one to the other.
@@Will_Is_Awesome i mean you said dcs was bad because it has different developers modelling it but WT is good because only gaijin does it ? XD . IMO, having more then one modelling for the game is fair superior to just having one, your more able to see which one is actually feeling more "realistic". Also FYI notching in DCS is fundamental in beating missiles so that was just wrong. But still they aren't comparable bc they achieve different goals
WT has its biggest advantage over DCS, that it has a reward and eco system, aka the grind, ppl hate the grind but the grind gave ppl a reason to play
Why do you need a reason to play? I play dcs because I want to have fun flying with jets. And even though the grind gives you the illusion of progression, in the end, it's still just a game, and sooner or later, your account is going to be deleted.
what turned me off of WT after years was the bs paper theories turned into toptier monsters, or the exact same plane with different brs for no reason. The soviet bias is real The flight models are made up half the time, then intentionally nerfed until you unlock the upgrades which will intentionally buff them over historic specs. WT as a whole is just arcade crap. Its like comparing MK to COD - different games with different feels and different goals, and wt doesnt share much of the same target audience as dcs or other flight sims.
schizo take Fr
@@notafrog2040How so? It's a real take. I followed WT before it was even released. Since the launch of the company, when it was still in beta. I flew it for many hours and yes, even paid for some premium planes, premium hours at times. I kept coming back to it several times until I said "enough is enough" and got tired of the arcade nonsense compared to many other games. DCS isn't perfect, no, but like I said ytou shouldn't even compare DCS to WT. You shouldn't compare WT to anything but Ace Combat 3. It's all arbitrary. Even in "sim" mode you're not flying the actual plane. Your inputs are actually STILL being "interpreted" by the whatayacallit, the "trainer" or the "pilot" or whatever it is. You're not directly even affecting your aircraft. Further, the weapons options are nonsensical, unhistorical, and the BR leveling is made up (Me262s against Mig-17s) and have been compressed to hell with the later jets making it worse. You can't even try a mid-war plane (1942 era) without being swarmed by F8F bearcats (a plane that saw no real WW2 combat, and none post-war). It is just.... a bad game in terms or either realism, in terms of history, or even in terms of just fun balance. Not to mention the fact that they take planes that only existed on paper and give them made up flight models and weapons options just to pad out their tech trees. WoT does the same thing as well, and it's a bad thing for a game to do.
I subscribed
Brother comparing DCS to war thunder is like comparing war thunder to world of warplanes... One is objectively better than the other. Its as simple as that. I remember when I got into war thunder there was this "rivarly" between war thunder players and wargaming players. Its the same that I see happening here. On the one had you have a sim that some countries use to train their pilots on and on the other, you have a game with some realistic aspects but otherwise made to appeal on the masses...
In your video you say a lot of questionable (at best) things that make me wonder if you spent any time in DCS or just repeated things that someone told you or you found online. Like where you talk about weapon systems, radar simulation or countermeasures... DCS has inconsistencies sure, but its nowhere near the fictional performance these things have on War Thunder...
I play both DCS and War Thunder. Air RB is ok when I want to get some quick action with my F14 and thats pretty much the only reason I keep playing. I tried WT sim many times. Its just pure garbage. I cant think of any reason to put myself through that insanity, just to say that "im playing a sim"... This is why I am really surprised when people with HOTAS, head tracking or VR play war thunder sim instead of DCS... Its clearly not a question of money, so what is it then? How can you be into sims, but not have the patience to learn how to start an F16 and land without dying? What kind of simulation are you looking for? A good one or a bad one? Its your choice.
As someone who plays both War Thunder Sim and DCS, War Thunder sim is just for when you want to fly the plane and get into fights, CAS or bomb but without the sim commitments. Its a lot easier to just get into a WT sim game without thinking about etiquette, using comms, taking minutes to rearm and refuel, to takeoff. Doing a cat 3 recovery is fun and all but sometimes I understand that all I want is to shoot down planes with the hotas that I bought with my money. Also War Thunder has a lot more planes than DCS, especially including props.
@@jenaiallen5337 At one point of one's life there is a choice to be made. Quality or quantity? I like quality even if it takes a bit more time. Especially because I play DCS i get frustrated at the poor quality physics, flight models, weapon performance (top tiers) as well as basic mechanics. Props on sim are fun. I ve played them alot. Early jets as well. Anything above br 10.0 is not. RWR simulation is extremely bad. Radar simulation is even worse. Its all centered around WVR and dogfights which is incredibly silly. The only thing that changes from air rb to air sim on these battle ratings is the cockpit view, markers and the removal of the instructor. Othere than that its the same poorly thought and implemented mode. Just with an extra cost slapped on top because we obviously need to have an economy in this game...
@@henrycastle6584 I understand, but to me DCS and War Thunder aren't mutually exclusive yet. It's probably the same reason why I play CS2 and Apex Legends.
War thunder, is a bit shit. DCS a cleverly disguises military recruitment ad.
comparing war thunder and DCS is like comparing F1 racing to go kart racing
DCS is used by many air forces in the world for a portion of their training. That's something that separates it from "just a game".
As someone who plays both, mee i dont care about absolutely anything i just do random ass shit on War Thunder and on DCS i just pick up the Mission editor and do 100 MIG-21 vs 10 F-22 Raptors idk ahhhh F-16C vs 20 SAM sites idk man i love doing the most random ass shit possible.
Stop comparing War Thunder to DCS. Yes, this entire video is you comparing the two, mostly talking about DCS, I've noticed. At roughly 2:28, you mention, 'DCS IRCCM is RNG only, and that if you chaff or flare in abundance, the missile will lose track.' This is entirely false. DCS doesn't have spec-to-spec missile modeling, nor does WT; you can't hold this argument because it depends on the type of missile. At no point did you mention what missile was being demonstrated. Yes, if you chaff, say, 60 times, and you get shot with an AIM-120C (30NM) then continue to fly your current heading, that 120 is going to hit you. It's not based on chance; there are a few factors that determine if the missile will hit, such as the missile's energy, followed by the height and pursuit curve - these, paired with RNG, determine if the missile will hit. It's not a flip of the coin; the missile has kinematics modeled, just like the aircraft do.
Some IR-guided missiles are weaker to flares than others. If you get shot by a 9x (3NM) and just flare + poorly maneuvered, that missile will hit because the 9x is a very good missile when it comes to ignoring flares, and it has crazy maneuverability. This is also true in real life. Then take a 9p, did the same setup (3NM), flared a bunch, pulled 3 Gs; that missile might not hit because that missile loves locking on the flares and can't maneuver like the 9x. It's not chance; it's what and how you fight the missile.
I've seen my friends evade Sparrows in WT as if they're playing ACE COMBAT; I've also seen the same in DCS. It's not a flip of the coin; it's the situation, RNG, both energy states, and maneuvers taken.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like you have even played DCS, as you do not know what determines the missile hitting you. Both games have notching modeled, both games allow you to fight missiles with aspect, both games simulate the kinematics of a missile, both games require you to fight the missile with your life. DCS is no walk in the park when you get shot with a missile, I'd imagine War Thunder to be the same. Your bias when it comes to DCS shines brighter than the sun; you've demonstrated that you have not spent any amount of time accurately testing these two games for comparison.
I investigated it, and I didn't find anything about how WT and DCS actually track missiles. But that was just a few quick Google searches. Unless you can find me concrete proof that WT has IRCCM accurately modeled; then find DCS's IRCCM solution about how it isn't modeled, I fully believe you're talking out of your arse.
We should stop comparing these games because we CAN'T COMPARE them, period. WT is on the arcade side of things, DCS is on the simulation side of things. WT overall has less realistic modeling, while DCS's is a bit better (It has a larger number of things simulated). You cannot compare DCS's weapons to WT's because they are not real. You can only compare the real thing; it's incredibly hard to fully model a game to real life; there will always be bugs, always inconsistencies in each and every single game.
2:30: Describe how you "flare properly" and how you got shot by X missile.
2:34: Show me a TacView explaining why that missile should not have hit you.
2:39: Yeah, missiles love not going for flares when there’s a nice big 40,000-pound blowtorch instead, especially when you fly in a straight line…
2:40: How does "flaring properly" and flaring in abundance connect? There is a point to evade the missile, because if you don't, it’s going to hit you!
2:45: "For short-range missiles, that just doesn’t matter." It does matter Will; it’s super possible to defeat a missile at close range. Here’s an entire paragraph about the topic: "Here’s another fighter pilot axiom to keep in mind: 'Fight missiles with aspect.' When a missile is fired at your jet in the aft quadrant, the best way to defeat it is with a maximum rate turn to put the missile on the beam (along your 3/9 line). You will give a missile the most guidance problems if you put the missile at your 3 or 9 o’clock position. In this position, you will be at 90° of aspect with respect to the missile, and it will have the worst possible line-of-sight rate problem to solve. Missiles fly lead pursuit courses to the target in order to achieve maximum range. If you hold the missile somewhere on your 3/9 line, you will make the missile pull the maximum amount of lead. You will also be moving across the missile field-of-view at the fastest rate. Figure 3-1 shows this position." - Art of the Kill. Title: "Defending Against a Missile" - - - - I can say, this paragraph is 100% correct; people do this all the time at very close range in DCS & WT, even Falcon 4.0, (And real life) because it is possible to defeat a missile at such ranges. This spells how much you don’t know what you’re talking about.
2:43: Yep, you HAVE TO kinematically defeat a missile (Unless you drive it into the ground) because flares & chaff are not as effective as you think. Kinematically fighting a missile works with short or long missiles; don’t know why you think otherwise.
2:51: Where's the documentation about DCS’s "not-modeled" IRCCM?
2:53: What missiles would you be referring to? How do you know what should be easy and hard to “flare off”? Where’s the documentation, or are you the engineer who designed all these missiles?
2:55: Again, where's your proof about this whole chance thing? If it was chance, explain why notching works better than spamming the chaff button, mister.
2:59: Seems like you really know how to flare off missiles, where's the documentation about WT’s ‘modeled’ IRCCM?
3:13: Now I know you haven’t touched DCS for a moment in your life. If you have, then you would know how almost useless chaff is. Competitive DCS players don’t even use it because flares, being the more effective countermeasure (For the respected Fox type), are better used and are commonly maxed out in their loadouts.
3:16: Were you being shot at with BAT missiles? Also, what range were these missiles shot at? If it was high RNG (60-50NM), then the defensive pilot doesn’t really need to do more than crank. (Because the missile doesn’t have the energy to reach anything)
3:23: Yes, you’re right, but you forgot one thing… It’s literally the exact same in DCS.
3:29 Multipathing, yeah, you could be right. I looked it up for DCS; didn’t find anything. However, your argument is weak considering the fact you have not provided evidence of how well both games perform in the topic. You sound like a very, very educated guy when it comes to these things, perhaps you’re an engineer?
3:34: Yes. Almost like they are two different games, for different people and different levels of simulation…
3:34: Yeah, DCS’s radars in some aircraft are terrible (F-16) when looking at the real thing; but I don’t think WT is any different considering the fact that it has the same symbology/UI for every single aircraft in the game. Or how WT doesn’t have some radar components; DCS simulates the real aircrafts features, such as PRF selections which WT does not have, at least from the research I’ve done.
3:50: Correct, some radars are modeled super well, while others suck. Goes the same way in WT, some flight models suck, some radars suck, others are great. What’s your point?
3:59: Glad we can come to the same conclusion. Both WT and DCS are not comparable because they are not real.
4:05: I don’t see your point here, there’s inconsistency in both games..?
4:49: How do you know if weapons are correctly modeled? Will! I didn’t think you were a former Top Gun instructor!!!!!
5:00: Yes, War Thunder has a lot of aircraft, hats off to the snail. DCS has more value within their planes. This is not a comparable component whatsoever.
5:12: There are servers like “DCS DOGFIGHTERS (1-6)” That allow you to fight people instantly.
5:26: If there’s not a real competitor for WT then why does this video even exist?
Another side note, this entire video has been filmed with War Thunder B-Roll; not once did you show DCS, is it because you haven’t yet played DCS? perhaps even - now call me crazy - not testing anything in DCS?
In conclusion,
you don’t know what you’re talking about.
yeah your def right. I play both games, In DCS there's no bullshit bias like war thunder. Even though i do love both games DCS will always be the better one in my opinion. The realism is amazing modelled into the game. I don't think the guy who made this video knows alot about what he's talking about.
I'm guessing mister Will over here won't be reply to this comment anytime soon, perhaps I've damaged your ego..?
I looked into your channel, it's interesting how there is not a hair laying around when it comes to DCS, it's almost like you don't play it. For real though, you have no content on DCS, and what seems to be a toddler type understanding of the game.
Moreover, Mr. Will, you pinned a comment... And do you know what that comment reads? basically, it's taking smack about DCS players! Wow right?
Now take a look at another thing - most of the comments you've liked, are also the comments that talk smack about DCS...
Is there something you're not telling us Mr. Will, maybe something like a bias? Or wait, maybe even about how you've never played DCS for a second in your life?
And get this, most of the people in this comment section who love taking smack about DCS also have War Thunder as their crowns jewel!
Cute, am I right?
There's no reason to respond. 95% of your comment is literally agreeing with me then just saying "ok and". You start by claiming I'm comparing War Thunder and DCS, where the entire point of the video is to show why comparing the two are bad. Kind of hard to do without bringing up the comparisons people use to show why it doesn't make sense. You also ask why this video exists if there's no real competitor to WT? Because people constantly compare WT and DCS? You actually have to be incredibly dense to not have these basic points make it into your head.
You claim I don't play DCS just because I don't have videos of it on my channel, have you stopped to think that maybe I only post one game because that's what I feel like? Why don't you complain that other WT youtubers don't have DCS videos or that DCS youtubers don't have WT videos?
Did you take 5 seconds to think that the pinned comment is from another WT content creator, and that it is quite literally a joke? If you can't pick that up it seems like you're just a clown who has nothing better to do.
The comments supposedly talking smack about DCS are for the most part talking about how DCS players, like you, are extremely toxic. It would be amazing if you would stop making up lies about myself and others in the comments to make yourself feel better.
The only "bias" is that I have in fact put way more hours into War Thunder than DCS, for a reason. I play both but I generally enjoy WT much more than DCS, which I am allowed to do.
Also keep liking your comment like you're on reddit.
Cute, am I right?
"Stop liking your own comment" ... *likes his own comment.*
95% of my comment is calling you out for not having basic knowledge of DCS, and then you continue to pretend like you know everything about the game. If your going to compare something you'd at think to do some research and test yourself, no?
You definitely can not say that this video isn't a comparison when the entire video, is in-fact a comparison - Its bare common sense, the video is encapsulating with your massive bias and clear demonstration of lacking knowledge.
I can say you have never played DCS because of the obvious lack of any research, furthermore, the fact that you didn't included any footage of DCS whatsoever says two things; you Dont play the game, and you haven't put a spec of effort into the video.
Sure, you can post whatever you wish on your channel, who cares, however not including something as simple as some footage containing DCS for this one video is downright lazy. Again, it shows that you have not played or otherwise tested anything in DCS.
Moreover every aspect of the DCS side in which you talk about is utterly false, you've not even scratched the surface of confirming your statements. The fact that you think just "dumping chaff" will force any missile to miss, is plain crazy. I can almost see your lies radiate through my screen; you can spell out "I have a skill issue" with how you say notching isn't modelled in DCS.
If you really think that you don't have a bias in this video you are very well lying; it doesn't take an expert to see it. More than half of your video is just talking a out the "Bad" parts of DCS and then **Comparing them**
I'm no detective, but most of those smack comments didn't look to much like jokes. But call me boring.
Yeah, I agree, we can not compare these games, but again your entire video does it...
I find it interesting how you start
your reply off with such an accusation, it almost sounds like you're insecure about some reddit history.
❤ u,
Pickle
I didn't like my own comment, gonna accuse my of liking it twice somehow? Lmao.
I'm not truly comparing them, I'm pointing out how it is bad to compare them. I have literally pointed this out already. Learn how to read. In fact you should understand this off of basic comprehension. Not hard.
The fact that you claim everything I said is incorrect is laughable and I have literally no reason to actually respond to anyone who just claims every single point I made was objectively wrong when they aren't.
You literally specifically mentioned the pinned comment which is quite obviously a joke, don't twist my words.
Again, you whine about how I'm supposedly comparing the two in the video as if I'm not pointing out the exact reason it is bad in the video.
You're the one that came back to your own comment on my video just to reply to yourself just because you didn't get a reply. Deranged fan? Didn't think I was big enough for this, but ok.
dcs models notching lol
How about Radar Cross-sections when you roll your airplane or have your flaps out
@@690_5it does, variable cross section was added and impacts your trac files that the computer creates, WT its an arcade game, period, you cant even test the performance of the planes, you donr have TAC view at all, not even wind performance is broght into the ecuation, while heatblur wento to batle with ED using nasa wind tunnels ana evidence that they were right about the missiles
Tell me how many real pilots fly war thunders and have videos testing the realitu of it?? Exactly
its not consistently modeled, that more or less the point, not all radars (of the ones that should be notch-able) aren't able to be notched.
@@StoneCoolds Radar cross section is not consistently accurate across packs, that's the main issue will
brought up, consistency is lacking for DCS.
@@friesingcold im able to notch every radar, in fact i did a test, using a high AoA maneuver to hide from planes (30 degrees on average), I basically become invisible, they could even visually see me but not get a lock on me, cuz i was in the notch area, so i just slew my radar to my helmet or use aim9x, the only one we didnt test was the mirage, since only i fly it, i need to test that one
In fact when doing resuplies missions on the huey, the way i stay alive is by knowing the notch blob of every radar and fly around that bubble, forcing them to get low and slow and lure them into IR sams traps that i set along the route before hand
It works so well that they were force go use ground radar mod to see my helicopter contour and "guide" others to me
That's something i need to test with the high AoA maneuver, see if the ground mod can see me and track me in some way, maybe the new apache radar can see me and lock at me?
DCS has pretensions of being a true "flight simulator", which means the closer it gets to its goal the worse it becomes as a game. I am 61 years old, have terrible eyesight, fair to good reflexes and poor to average health for my age - there is no freaking way I would ever be allowed to pilot a $50 million dollar aircraft, let alone be able to make it work.
If you are already a skilled and qualified pilot then sure, go ahead and pretend that Air Force accepted you after college and you ended up being a Top Gun instructor. For the rest of us, we make do with spotting aids, player maps and Instructor Mode, just stop making us feel bad about it.
I don't really know if you ever have played DCS (doesn't seem like it) I am playing both actively. For example Multipathing, IRCCM or needing to notch are properly modelled in DCS, it depends on the missiles or aircraft specification. So do early variants of ARH and SARH suffer more from multipathing, later ones often do not. Multipathing isn't realistic in War Thunder too, it just starts to happen at specific heights over the ground, not like in real life where it really depends on the ground type (rough, flat, bumpy) and atmospherical conditions which is implemented in DCS very well. IRCCM is really oversimplified for game technical reasons, in real life and DCS, IRCCM has different conditions when it works and when not and notching is needed in both games. Weapon systems are way better implemented in DCS in general, there are NO wrong modeled weapon systems, I don't know where you pulled that from. In War Thunder missiles tend to behave like the same ones (for example AIM-7F/AIM-7M), although there are noticeable differences, which are related to parameters, War Thunder doesn't even have implemented. War Thunder might be simple to get into, but the pain starts really early and you have to make it through.
Title: Stop comparing WT to DCS
Vid Content: Compares WT to DCS
I was just preparing a response to this video, of a cc clearly leaning towards War Thunder, when I saw @Pickle-44's response so...Few things: It's true that War Thunder enthusiasts love to talk about IRCCM and so on. What's the use? The flight models, physics are clearly arcade. I'm not saying you can't enjoy the game. Of course, you can. In fact, I have thousands of hours in both. And I always encourage both DCS players to try War Thunder and War Thunder players to try DCS. But all the points you mention in your video are hearsay. You haven't verified them at any point. That's why I can't support you, my friend. Maybe if you dedicate a few weeks to reading material about DCS, you might see beyond. As for the matter at hand, well, the acclaimed IRCCM. What's the use in a game with horrible netcode? Did you know that clouds are client-side? And they synchronize at the beginning of the match in War Thunder. I can show you many matches against other streamers where, for example, I wasn't among the clouds while the other person flew confidently thinking that a cloud was covering their infrared signature.Or even worst a bad netcode that made enemy plane apear on my screen on full afterburner while on his end he cut the power.
Radar bad simultade on older modules? We can talk about that for hours if you want. But just.,no, don't say that.Please.Beg you. haha.
I think you're right about one thing. It's necessary to stop comparing two games like War Thunder and DCS. Enjoy the one you choose. And don't be deceived by your own bias. Step out of your comfort zone and try other things. In this case, DCS, and get better informed before preparing a video.
Nice take
Warthunder Cope
Troll moment
me when i have no life and ragebait
I still think they are the same
BAD
;)
I play both and I think you're right. People who play DCS exclusively sh1t on WT often but it's a great entry into the world of planes in general, and also for sim pilots. Also, exclusive DCS players often show some kind of elitism, thats something I really dont like at all. On the contrary, DCS offers great realism for those who can afford to learn a plane in depth, and also how the mulitplayer servers work, since every one is basially a game in itself. For example, ECW plays completely differently compared to, say, Blue Flag.
So to conclude, as someone who spent a 4 figure amount on both games for planes, modules, GE and so on: Stop hating each other and as Will said, stop comparing it 1:1. These games cater to different audiences (and/or different moods).
War thunder pvp wise is much better, DCS pvp is kinda lacking with not many servers, and dcs radar and missile modeling are decently behind war thunder. They cant even model flares, instead not having a heat signiture but instead an RNG way of getting a chance the missile is flared per flare. And missile physics are also really dodgy. And many modules have shitty radars that are not realistic. Mirage and F15E and f14 are great but many others are far from realistic
I can feel big dunning-kruger in this video. I would write what is wrong in this video. But @pickle-44 already did. So go check his comment.
I think you need to do a bit more research bud. The time and attention that goes into a module development in DCS is light years better than anything in WT. Also mind you flight model, system performance are backed up by SME’s / pilots that actually flew the aircraft. I love both and you are right, they are not the same.
nah
dcs is a tech demo. not a sim.
first
No one cares ya bozo
nah, you dookie
War thunder is fun, Dcs not.
Weird, I never had fun in warthunder, but had a lot of fun in DCS. Maybepeople just prefer different things?