Southamptons Lost Canal Tunnel under the City.
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
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Hey folks. Couple of things.
1) For reasons I have yet to work out my lips won't pronounce Palmerston correctly. Forgive me.
2) We explored the rest of the Canal and what remains later in the day. Make sure you subscribe to see the video later this month.
Just a thought - if you mentally split the word "Palmerston" after "Palm" then you can think "palm tree" for pronunciation of palm. Then it will perhaps be easier to do Palm-erston. Long ago my mother used to call the soap "pal molive" instead of "palm olive" so I've been familiar with this problem for around 60 years! 😉
Looking forward to the second part, I really like these kind of stories, thanks for showcasing them!
Hahaha :))))
You talk too fast, thats why. Slow down.
@@pilpelet100 Wow, you know, sometimes I think we pronounce words the way we heard it the first time. You're Palmolive is a prime example. I pronounce it just like your Mother did. I had to have heard it pronounced that way and for years now, I guess I've mispronounced it. I'll work on it! lol
Im a train driver that goes through Southampton tunnel multiple times a week. There is a section almost in the middle that is reinforced with metal shields rather than brickwork and I'm guessing that's where the lowered tunnel intersected the canal. The railway tunnel still suffers badly with water ingress. It's very wet in there.
The energy of David Bellamy and the knowledge of David Attenborough.....epic
It's amazing that there's a giant 200 year old uncompleted tunnel under somewhere so busy and NOBODY has seen it. You'd think someone would get a shovel out and take a look
When I used to be a train driver at Eastleigh, I travelled through the rail tunnel many times. I remember staff talking about the canal tunnel. Great of you to confirm the gossip was correct.
Many thanks from New Zealand.🧐
Ive not long started (in railway terms) driving from fratton depot. I was told about the canal during route learning. Hope you are enjoying NZ.
I have seen the entrance to the canal tunnel from the rail tunnel. It was possible to crawl through a 3 foot high adit at about track which went downwards to the canal tunnel. There was water in there, but it was a good while ago. I was a junior track technical officer based at Southampton for the St Denys Totton resignalling from 1980 to 1983 and used to do a fair bit of manual tunnel profiling in there. A bulge in the tunnel lining was found fairly close to the civic centre tower which prompted the first tranche of track work to install a new invert slab and lining repairs about 1982/83 I think.
Absolutely fascinating. I lived and worked in Southampton from 1979 to 2005. I had no idea whatsoever that this canal even existed. I doubt whether a lot of other people in Southampton do either. A brilliant video, historically very important and extrememly important to the historical story of Southampton. Thank you guys very much.
This was wonderful. I once traced the route of the Salisbury and Southampton canal as a school project and have been fascinated ever since. Love your videos.
Thanks Stephen. We traced a lot of later in the day. Video out in a few weeks
Thank you so much. Lots of history just loved it. Thanks so much for taking me along. Please stay safe
Our pleasure!
Back in the early 1980’s BR carried out a lot of work in the tunnel including relaying both lines and they published a leaflet explaining the works. In it they talked about the existence of the tunnel and now they had to go into it to check its integrity.
Need to get a copy of that leaflet!
@@pwhitewick I'd try the City Library first, then the archives and finally Netowrk Rail who might have some copies. I commuted to Southampton daily durng the time of the tunnel works but never kept the leaflet.
@@andrewfanner2245 if they were BR records then Railtrack probably binned them before they got to Networkrail.
@@pwhitewick The British Library at Weatherby just might have copy's.
I live in Southampton and have done for 63yrs and this is the first I have heard of the canal tunnel, thanks Paul.
My local city and I knew nothing about that canal! Thanks for sharing.
Putting in my oar: I have to mention (mainly because it makes me somewhat jealous...) that the production quality of your videos have improved so much that it's really going off the scale. Well done both of you! :-) I'm not a railway nerd, but you are turning me into one...
I like your videos. Very noticeable how you are honing your craft as film makers to compliment your enthusiasm for historical infrastructure. Keep it up! - Looking forward to the next one whilst working through the back catalogue :-).
Thanks Simon, very kind.
Thank you again for sharing this with all of us ! You guys ROCK . Cheers from California !
Thanks Olin.
Really enjoyed that! Used to live in Netley Abbey for a short time in 2012. Was nice to catch up with a bit of southmpton history, cheers!
Hey guyS.. it was added to the Andover Canal that ran to Redbridge .. odd bits remain but it goes unheralded and unmarked in Andover especially.. Canal Street in Soton still had mooring rings visible until a few tears ago..
I have been watching a lot of videos about Narrow boating on the canals in England. You have so many! Here in America, we have very few canals, and I wondered why. What I found is that America has a lot of rivers, and many of the big cities back in the 1600's and 1700's, were built alongside major rivers. We did not have many canals because we did not need many canals, we could transport goods up and down the existing rivers. I did find one surprise though......
About 20 miles from my home near Charleston, South Carolina, is "Old Santee Canal Park", site of the first canal in America. Go figure, I had the very first American canal right outside my front door, so to speak. River boats transporting agriculture products from the midland of the state to Charleston, would follow the Santee river to the sea, then travel along the coast to get to Charleston harbor. Many boats and crews were lost when bad weather would catch these shallow draft river boats on the open water of the coastal Atlantic. It was decided to dig a 22 mile long canal to connect the Santee and Cooper rivers so that these shallow draft vessels would not need to venture into the open Atlantic waters to reach the city of Charleston, as the harbor connects directly to the Cooper River.
Construction began in 1793 and was completed in 1800. The Santee Canal was 22 miles long with three locks to lift boats from the Santee River to the summit level and seven locks for the descent of the boats to the Cooper River. Droughts and increased competition from railroads prompted shareholders to revoke its charter in 1850.
Fascinating to think what be under your feet almost like another world. Thanks for the video excellent as ever.
Thanks Roger
Really great video really great editing and really great and interesting about the canal thanks. Jimmy.
Thanks Charles.
Very enjoyable and interesting. Your work just keeps getting better by the vlog. It is great to see your subs rising!!!
Thanks Robin
Great video there was a report when they lowered the tracks for the larger trains they went through the roof of the canal tunnel and is the reason why the work on the tunnel took so long
Fascinating video Paul. Looking forward to the next instalment.
Nice that you corrected town to city, as Southampton is indeed a city today. But in the period you were describing, it was indeed a town. And if a city is a town with a royal charter, then it’s both a town and a city, but that won’t satisfy the actually-it’s-a-city-not-a-town brigade 😆
Also, if you’re exploring what’s under towns and cities, I grew up in Salisbury where there were rumours of a huge military bunker underneath Castle Street (accessed through what was the Prudential Insurance offices). Many Cold War installations are now declassified and make fascinating stories. Any interest in exploring this particular tale? (Not to mention local rumours of similar beneath HQUKLF in Wilton).
There was a thread about this on the railuk forums, where I asked if any Network Rail engineers working on the tunnel knew anything about it. Apparently the two tunnels cross closer to the Eastern rather than the western rail portal and a hundred yards in or so is a door which gives (gave) access to the old canal tunnel. As you say the portion of canal tunnel underneath the rail tunnel is filled in with rubble but nobody has ever ventured beyond it. I would guess from descriptions of its construction that it has long since collapsed under the vibration of city traffic above it and the fact that there has been no subsequent subsidence since the school incident, and even if it wasn't it would be a terrifying and dangerous exploration!
I saw a thread on railforum but that referred to the guy that was in the BBC building (western end) and got down to the cross over point there. Maybe I misread it
Northside of southampton central train station, in the car park you will find manhole covers.. That's all I will say.. 😏
Great video guys 😎
Thanks for sharing 😀🍻🥂👍🏻
Thank you for brightening my monday again
Always a pleasure
Great videography, getting quite slick now guys, very informative video as always. 👏😊
Thanks Keith, learning as we go!
Love the end of the perfectly timed "Outtake"
Not sure if you've been to Rugby but there are 4 abandoned railways, several disused stations and the old Great central can be walked. As well as an abandoned stretch of canal and a tunnel if you're interested.
Great video Paul and Rebecca, the railway into Portsmouth and Southsea station is built into the old Arundel to Portsmouth canal, similar to the Southampton canal I suppose,love the outtake at the end👌😀👍
That seemed to happen a heck of a lot including through the west of Southampton
@@pwhitewick yeah I should think it was an easy option for the engineers building the railway 👍
Fascinating Paul and Rebecca. Thank you again. I lived in Southampton till 17 and didn’t know about it till much later. Never mentioned at school. They were fixed on the Tudors. There is a really good little book by Edwin Course that explains it all. There were even some mooring rings till quite late in Canal Walk not far from where you were in the park but they might have gone now.
Thanks Marilyn.
History that should not be forgotten! I hope you get to talk to the construction company who worked on the tunnel in 2010, they might have some interesting pics or vids! Thanks!
Thanks Miles. We have a man on it, sadly not quick enough for this video, but perhaps for part two.
I never knew Southampton had a canal. I've seen photos of when the railway was built though and they dug out the whole area across the park, built the tunnel and filled it back in over the top. Also WW2 shelters in the park area which may have changed the landscape since. Saying that I've not been back into Soton in a decade.
I'm in the U.S. and watch both your channel and Martin Zero's channel religiously. Why is that? :0)
Me too and I don't know why either.
very interesting you two thanks
Brilliant! Very interesting 😀👍👏👏👏👏👏👏
Well at least Southampton got a nice park out if it! I like the music in the background, very nice! You and Rebecca are getting more professional with every video you do!
Thank you
at 05:12 on the right behind the tree by the corner of the building, I think there's a bricked up entrance. didn't seem to mention that
Thoroughly enjoyable. Years ago I thought the route ran alongside the railway north of Southampton. I will try and find your video.
Cheers Robin, check out the video in the Canal playlist, as you suggest it did follow that route indeed.
there's a lot of old canal stonework to be seen along Lee Lane which runs off the A27 to the south of Romsey down to Lee, Nursling, Redbridge and into Southampton....
Really interesting, thank you. Love the Palmerston pronunciation and King Edward 4th instead of 6th but as a local, found it very informative. Don’t mess with our local bells though! 🤣
EVERY 15 minutes!!
The Whitewicks they play a tune at 8, 12, 4 & 8 too, and on a couple of occasions the tune has got stuck on and played for a couple of hours!
i enjoyed this and you done a very good job explaining thanks for uploading
I live in Southampton I'll definitely be exploring this later on
Definitely see if you can get to the park end and work out the landscape there. Canal View!
Nice music selection. Great editing too
Thanks Jimmy. Much appreciated
Excellent video, well produced and interesting.
Very interesting video. Great research, I also like the improvements to the presentation and editing you have made with this one. Excellent
Fantastic video, as a Sotonian I had no idea an attempted canal tunnel predated the railway one, will have to take a look myself. Feel I should point out the Street View didn't show The Star but an old bank building (I believe it was Lloyds). The Star is just a few metres south. Brilliant video though, and your channel is fascinating 😊
Thanks Daniel.
Interesting stuff out of sequence but had to look at cos I was born in Southampton and luv canals. Cheers
Can't wait to see this video interesting stuff as usual!!😎🐓🐓🇬🇧
Thanks 👍
Your presenting style is coming along well!
Thank you.
Would be interesting to see more about abandoned and uncompleted canals along the south coast, there's a good few to choose from.
Arun is on the list.
The industrial archaeologist Edwin Course inspected part of the canal tunnel during maintenance work of the railway tunnel some years back. He describes this in either 'The Itchen Navigation' or 'The Railways of Southern England: The Main Lines', I forget which. My copies are in the loft at the moment but I'll try and look them out at some point.
Actually, following up on your link to the Hants Field Club article by Edwin Course, I suspect that piece contains pretty much what was in the above books anyway.
Your best narration yet. 👍🏼
Thanks Kate, very kind!
Very interesting. Well done.
I’ve followed you and Rebecca on quite a few journeys where you’ve searched and found old railway tunnels etc. If I knew you both were down here I would of bought you a coffee, in between the civic bell 😂😊
Great stuff
Thank you for mentioning the Midlands as a separate entity from "The North"👍🏻
Two of the shortest captions I've ever seen at 2:37 and 6:10 as corrections. But for 2:37 the original was correct; Southampton was a town at the time, not a city, and remained so until 1964. As a Pompey boy I have to rub it in that we got city status earlier, in 1926. Portsmouth's own canal was partly converted into the railway, west of Fratton.
Had never realised the Itchen was supposed to go to London. Acquainted with the Itchen Navigation through Winchester's water meadows, but had not considered it going much further.
Do you have any idea what router was planned?
It’s a little bit out of area so please indulge me on this. But you can see the economic effect of having a canal elsewhere by comparing two towns in Yorkshire.
Selby (an old Abby town) has a canal linking the Rivers Aire and Ouse, it made Selby a rich little town, they built a Georgian crescent like Bath to show the wealth. Then the Aire and Calder canal company dug a long straight canal to Goole, making it easier to get to Hull compared to using the windy Aire between Ferrybridge and the Selby canal. Selby ended up losing importance and despite the railway also getting to Selby before it got to Goole, Goole has the bigger docks that still work to this day.
Small point about the ads Paul, not complaining about them, I understand why they are there and don’t skip them. But does CZcams allow you to adjust the timing at all? They both started whilst you were mid sentence, little bit frustrating..
Thanks for the feedback. Tricky as you say there is goo reason for the midrolls. We do have the option to move them to a suitable place which is easy and I actually thought I had them spot on. Back to the drawing board. 🤦
Sadly that outtake wasn't saved by the bell! lol It was also a great lovely short video and honesty didn't knew about there was plans for a canal tunnel. When looking at OS Maps back in December, I did noticed that it had a lot of track in that area, especially Southampton Terminus (which I shared a photo on Twitter) So there is some good history in that area.
For lots of disused stations in a small area try Ely, March and Wisbech in Cambridgeshire.
King Edward VI school was founded and named for Edward VI (the sixth) - he was keen on schools because the monasteries that his father dissolved had been the providers of education. Edward, in his short reign, founded or caused to be founded a fair number of schools - including the one in Southampton which still thrives today!
Thanks for sharing John
Fascinating.
I'm intrigued by the Southampton civic centre, near the tunnel, at the start. It's sort of classical, but minimal, built 1929 to 1939. Also, surprised that the original Edward VI school had 2 incidents of subsidence you say - '1920 and 1975'. Sounds funny that.
He meant the BBC building. King Edward VI School relocated to Hill Lane just before WW2. Strange he called it K.Edward the FOURTH!! The remaining medaeval building housing the School is the Registry Office in French St.
@@gbentley8176 Right, yes, so the original school stood on the other side of the road to where the civic centre (Sea City Museum) now is, on Havelock Road. .
Excellent video, I'm especially interested in this one because it would have been quite close to the Portsmouth to Arundel route (my local canal). This one was started much earlier but the issues with poor workmanship& materials sound eerily familiar!
My home city
My town has a underground train tunnel that was for transporting coal to the canal. Dont think many know about it. Don't think its possible to get in but I read a little information on it.
What town is that Kirk?
@@pwhitewick leigh near Manchester.
www.leigh-lancashire.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4565.0;attach=5163;image
Great stuff. Thank you
@@pwhitewick no worries mate 👍
Back in 1980,British Rail Engineering relined the Railway Tunnel.They found a part of the tunnel.It lay at an acute angle across the BR line.Not above as your video suggests.I remember seeing in the Southern Evening Echo Newspaper,a picture of engineers walking a short piece of the canal.It still had water in it and the brickwork ,at that point was still good.After that they sealed the Canal tunnel off again.
I wasn't aware we suggested the Canal was above the railway? Most certainly below.
@@pwhitewick Yes,my error!
@@pwhitewick I think it could have been your map - your green canal line goes over the top of the red rail tunnel. You stated it correctly in all the audio though.
Fantastic
Funny how I pass through the train tunnel nearly every day and I never knew there was an abandoned canal right below my feet in the tunnel
I remember the work being carried out to the tunnel in the 80s, which was due to the containers on the freights scraping the side walls! No idea why it was necessary to carry out more works nearly thirty years later. Don’t think the containers got any bigger over time.
Apparently they did!
A lot of goods now come in what are known as 'high cube' containers, which are 9ft 6in tall. The work in 2010 saw the tracks through the tunnel lowered to allow these containers to be carried using normal wagons, rather than the low deck variety that had to be used before.
Another great video! I've been through Southampton Tunnel many times but never knew there was a canal tunnel below!
Very interesting. Really would like to know more.
Check out the links in the description.
Funny, some of my ancesters were living in Southampton at that time.. as _brickmakers!_
That's brilliant. Really love that tangible history
The Luftwaffe blew Southamptons industry to dust in the war and it never rdvovered.
Have you visited the old station near bath where the Farleigh down ammo store tunnel is? Not sure about access currently but would be worth seeing
I think it's just been blocked up!
It's blocked up at the top, at Monkton Farleigh end. The areas beyond are owned by Restore, a secure document storage company. From what I've read online, every time the trackside entrance is sealed, it soon gets unsealed. Plenty of videos and photos online (good example: www.theurbanexplorer.co.uk/farleigh-down-tunnel-wiltshire/). BTW, there was never a station here; just transfer sidings. The building with the corrugated iron roof is still intact, as far as I know.
Very interesting video. Back in the 1970s / 80s, there was still a relic of the old canal in Southampton City Centre, near a road called Canal Walk, (which is still there). There were some old mooring rings set in some steps at the back of a factory which has since been demolished. I saw a picture of them in a book and went and found them sometime in the late 70s. I looked again more recently and they're unfortunately no longer there, (or not visible). See sotonopedia.wikidot.com/page-browse:canal-southampton-salisbury
Thanks for sharing Ken
you've gotta do a Wey and Arun or Portsmouth and Arundel canal video.
Assurances its on the list
Thats a strange coincidence, last night I was looking at yacht moorings on the Ichen River and how far it was navigable. Up popped a website for this very canal hmmm.
Haha brilliant
Love the outake :-)
Another piece of quality research. ( Davids Attenborough and Bellamy- I never thought of that :)
Is that an actual photo of the brickwork taken in 1975?
Given that and the recent civil engineering intrusions, any civil engineer with a hard hat, a curiosity and an urge to explore would have done just that. It would be almost silly not to.
Can't wait for the next parts!
Palmerston is pronounced PARmer-stn, like the victorian prime minister.
Yup, can't work out why my brain can't get that out of my mouth!
4:16 Just on the left there are stairs going a long way down under the ground. They have been there for decades. I reckon they are the original escape steps from the building of the tunnel. They are behind closed doors but you can get it.
hey paul and rebecca , real cool video , was real interesting , would love to find out how much is still there :)
Likewise Davie
I have a copy of a report by Dr Course of Southampton University, written in 1976, which includes a couple of black and white shots of the tunnel interior and a cross sectional diagram showing the level of silting encountered.
Indeed as per the report I linked in the description?
@@pwhitewick Ah, I didn't clock the 'show more 'button!
If the canal had been completed, we never would have had the Wey and Arun Canal so in some ways I am pleased.
THATS MY CORNER ON THE CAR PARKKK 😂
A very interesting video it's hard to believe that most people don't even know this canal tunnel is below the railway tunnel. It would be good if you could find the end of the tunnel and see what the landscapes like at the end if possible. Great history right under our feet in a lot towns I bet.
Thanks David. Yup it would be really useful if an old document existed detailing the exact locations.
1.5 minutes in, that wasn’t The Star hotel, it was the old Lloyds bank!
My local city, will think of it differently now knowing there is a mystery canal tunnel in the city centre.
Ok... its a cliffhangar... so when do I get to see this tunnel? I need to see it!
Check of the links in the description, there are a few pics I could not show due to copyright
I’m guessing it’s going to link the bbc building to the school
tracy fenton 1) boo.
2) they weren’t there at the same time.
Intriguing, I’m from Southampton
Hello Southampton
The same failed tunnel was mentioned in a BBC website article last updated in 2009. Viz news.bbc.co.uk/local/hampshire/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8383000/8383071.stm there is a failed link to a (now) non existent video. This is primarily about works to increase height of the railway tunnel, but refers to the canal tunnel being partly dug but abandoned in 1808.
Hey Paul I live on Lower Canal Walk in Southampton the no thru road from Briton Street down to the bowling green .. Do you have any information or photographs of the area ??
Sadly not a lot that we have found. Have a look at the link in the description that shows a few.
MY mother told us kids .when she was a child ...she was born near the KINGLAND SQUARE in 1906 so in 1915 or so part of the train tunnel collapsed ... she never ever knew about a 2nd tunnel .but it must be in the town record some where .I would love to know about it ..thanks ..
Fasvinating
There’s not a lot of canal here. Still water is a necessity for life, that’s why almost all city have been founded close to a river. To drink of course but especially for transportation. Since river flow in a direction, Montreal has mostly all factory, and goods was send to Quebec City, making the way back more easier with an empty boat. Exemple Molson beer (another necessity of life lolilol) where you can find a little boat on the sticker.
Good video
Facinating, have you looked into mudfloods, Martin lediki F E B has a CZcams channel on this type of thing, good luck
No because we aren't idiots.