D&D Players, How do you enforce laws in your cities when dealing with high-level parties?
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How do you enforce laws in your cities when dealing with high-level parties?
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You had me at "Dark Spells" 😈
My Lvl 14 Fiend Pact Warlock will be happy... *muah ha haaa*
Attack at inopportune times. If the PC's can't rest, or buy anything legally and have to literally fight for everything then it's not worth being an asshole. Also Bounty Hunting is a thing on both sides. If you're a well known menace to society, then you can expect a sudden crossbow bolt from the blue at pretty much any moment. Exhaustion levels build up and if you can't long rest or short rest, then you're done.
Especially if they can't recover their spell slots. I know someone who does this to high level characters who aren't jerks because his villains are actually intelligent. This is also why adventurers in his world tend to retire between levels ten and fifteen: the villains they take on are smart enough to send waves of level 1s to interrupt their sleep.
Or you just have a conversation to your players about expectations and that you won't be allowing them to murder hobo. Just skip all that bs.
@@tyrrollins Yes, these discussions are generally under the assumption that trying to talk to people has failed and you're too stubborn to just leave and find a group that don't want to be raging ding-dongs.
Lightbulb moment:
Make the PC's watchmen. Have them deal with it.
As a DM: we're all adults and had a session zero where we set expectations, including that the party is generally expected to act a certain way. All of these "creative" solutions are going to create more problems and is a lot of work being done to fix a problem that is avoided entirely by properly communicating.
Your point is valid, however the question was more of a matter of characters and role-playing, rather than players going all murder hobo or being out of character.
Like if you are playing a specifically evil campaign, or the party is going up against an evil kingdom or corrupt elements of a government. In those cases, the party would have to break some laws, so the question is how to enforce those in-universe laws
@@tinaherr3856 If the in-universe laws are being enforced, then the party has been defeated. That's what "enforced" means. Just like how the bad guys are ineffectual in stopping a party of heroes from saving the world when you play good guys; when you play bad ones the forces of good are naturally unable to stop the party as well.
If the party loses, the game ends. The DM screen is there to hide that fact that. It's a inescapable consequence of how the game is played. When you play, you are suppose to win, when you DM you are suppose to lose, the goal is to make it fun.
If the Question had been "how do you making breaking the law in campaigns fun?" then this discussion would be more relevant but it's not, the question was "how do you stop players from breaking the law" and the short answer is: tell them breaking the law will also break the game.
I had a group go mustang. They sacked the local bank. The town/local militia was activated. They attacked the PC's soft targets. (Mounts, Henchmen, friends and family.) They paroled some criminals the party captured earlier. Years ago. The EVIL priest now LAW ENFORCEMENT summoned a demon. They offered the parties souls. Worked like a charm when the only INN to serve them got them mega drunk. Ladies of evening. The works. After the party was captured. Off to the abyss they went. Their magic items were sold to offset damages done by the Pc's. The local warlord declared NO TAXES for the next year because of the PC's generous donations. My players said. What happen to our Characters? I spoke. I really don't want to go into it. They insisted. I said they became NPC MANES!!!! Unhappy group. To their credit. They spoke. Yeah, we became reckless and arrogant. Like you said. The campaign was over.
As the DM you must also remember your simultaneously the players' enemies, environment, narrator, referee, and most importantly friend trying to help everyone have a good time. Actions should have consequences, but the players ideally need multiple routes out of those consequences whether they be repentance, mitigation or skillful avoidance of them.
Nobody expects the Inquisition (Up to 5 high level Paladins) going after you...
I bet they are also Spanish
@@lewiszhou4056 A mix of Italian, Mexican and Canadian
(And they have a Irish Paladin with two swords as their leader)
In my town, there’s these massive rocks spread across everywhere. The most peculiar thing is every night some move and some don’t.
If the party ever causes trouble, they’ll have to deal with the night guard trolls
The entire guard is made of 9th level spellcasters in plate armor
This was specifically excluded. Listen to the start at about 0:10
@@jort93z didn’t say high level, they could just be normal guards except for the fact they can call meteors from the sky
@@Weaponx603 9th level spell casters aren't high level npc's?
I hate when other DMs do this tbh. At that point if I’m a player the logic of the world breaks, and I’m no longer interested. If every guard can cast high level spells and have crazy armor I’m going to keep my mid level adventure in the tavern and let the guards handle the town’s problems.
I really need to elaborate on this, this comment was a joke, if I’m not telling a D&D story as a response to one of these videos, the comment is usually a joke
It depends on the world-building; sometimes, having high level "enforcers" at level 20 or so at any real capacity can raise the question "why are we the ones following the plot hook?". So for the sake of not filling your towns with legendary level 20 wizards or the like, you have two obvious options; a siege mentality (the guards start setting up tar traps, flashbang the wizards, etc)... And then there's the "act of desperation", the king and his men, seeing the party cutting through their guards and more and fearing their kingdom will be decimated... Sacrifices themselves to whatever higher powers are listening; roll a d8 for the alignment of whatever answered, going clockwise from Lawful Good. If it turns out something like a straight up Demon Lord, they could THANK the party for pushing the king to this level of desperation and allowing them to once more walk the mortal plane in exchange for the party's lives.
This is of course, assuming the party is acting without clear motive. In certain situations, the king could also go "screw it, so long as they're not here", and give them a small abandoned castle town in the wastelands to hang out in; punctuated by the only other people who move in after the players move in are bandits, who begin worshiping the party as "the bandit kings". Once you're at that point, where they're being treated like Atilla the Hun, they might get the hint that they've gone a bit far down the moral rabbit hole.
Idea:have the king be a boss fight with an entire royal guard and have him sacrifice himself if he gets low and summon in the giant thing. (ph2)
I like this answer, keeps the lore's power balancing in place, punishes but doesn't railroad the players, and potentially creates a new big bad with an established dynamic with the players.
The chief magician of the city casts "Viginti Amittere", a custom spell I have that causes a player(s) to lose use of their 20-sided dice.
So, they can't do anything that requires a roll anymore? Or do they automatically fail? Or do they get treated as though they always roll a 10? Or do you just narratively decide he succeeds and fails from that point on?
@@tylerian4648 They roll any die they choose against my 20, if they tie or best, they get their 20 back. If I roll a 1 and they roll a crit- I lose my 20. The chance for that to happen is why most don't object too much.
When my party gets to powerful to be properly unruly, they get introduced to the illuminate guard and the luminary emissary; beings manifested by the world itself to keep the peace.
The emissary will always offer them the chance to apologize and repay their social debt or fight. If they choose the fight, the emissary drains their saves and AC until long rest and the guard shows up; copies of the players, but with the drained AC/saves split between them. That 30ac monk becomes 0, and every guard becomes much harder to hit.
Why doesn't the illuminate emissary solve all the problems the party normally would? (Assuming this is a good campaign, not a neutral or evil one)
@@tylerian4648 the Illuminant in general exist in the moment to act as the mouthpiece and weapons for the will of the world. They aren’t an order or a group; when they show up it is as an ultimatum to an individual or party that is threatening the peace or safety of something the world thinks is important.
Mage hunters, like, actuall mage hunters, not that shitty feat. In my world, major cities have a judicial instance of spellcasters, usually Arcana Clerics or Divination Wizards.
They appeared really only once in game but it was pretty cool. Basically, the party was ambushed by an enemy faction in a major city, battle ensued, naturally, but hey who the hell is that guy in blue and white robes flying towards us?? The Causidic Wizard casts a 6th level Hold Person DC 18. Everyone play freeze!
A former campaign world I was in had a veteran wizard named Mortimer.
He owned a chain of magic shops and was a very useful guy to know.
Once our paladin insulted him. He clapped his hands. (Wish)
Our party was transported a few miles away from town to the top of a barren hill.
None of our stuff was transported with us. Not even our clothes.
Mortimer sounds like a loser, tbh. Should've died before he ever left the first dungeon. Spending a wish over someone insulting him?
Did Mortimer not know which of the party insulted him, or was he trying to give you all a reason to be ticked at the paladin?
Either way, a clear case of disproportionate retribution.
The campaign objective would have switched to kill or punish Mortimer at that point if I were any player other than the Paladin.
I think the joke here is that Mortimer is the god of death and commerce in the book series "everybody likes large chests". Also, he has a contractor assassin cult worshiping him.
My Reploid Gunslinger will be one of a few characters I will have non-lethally neutralize organic adversaries. He's a retired police detective, and he doesn't care that he got transported from Earth in 22XX to a fantasy world in the year 20XX. RULES ARE RULES! Robots cannot attack human(oid)s, they can't stand around while human(oid)s are in danger, and self-defense is a good legal defense. He will only reserve kill shots on humanoids if they do anything to endanger... I dunno an entire city? Zeroth Law: The needs of the many... you know the rest.
I answered this in a murder hobo post, but again... most cities have special units designed to take out high-level perpetrators. If necessary, powerful citizens work as depitized units. In a city, the city can and will bring overwhelming force. In a smaller town or village, there may be high-level deputies and a small specialized team. But absent that there are bounty hunters, and those will again work to bring overwhelming force. One nation has a large number of fellow adventurers and pirates, and they will instantly go to overwhelming force. Eventually, players who just don't get it will find themselves taking a quick stop on a short rope. It is inevitable.
Okay, how can the players circumvent these bounty hunters in any way other than surrendering and or repaying debts and making amends? If they can't, how is this different from an extended and drawn out "rocks fall and everyone dies"?
@tylerian4648 payments to a contact in the thieves guild can make some crimes go away, bribing corrupt officials helps, or find a good bolt hole and wait for things to blow over. Maybe they flee the fiefdom or country. Either way, though, eventually, the check comes due. In some way or another, the check comes due. They can make charges go away, but that won't stop the wronged person from putting a bounty out themselves, if they can. You want a way out of consequences, and there are none. Some players, the most powerful players, who commit major atrocities have found that even the gods have a prison they maintain. In my current campaign, seeing their wanted posters and paying the thieves guild for a smuggle out of town was enough to change their direction. One of those characters can never go home again for her crimes, even though she is a vaunted hero in other lands. The last time she tried, she found an active bounty on her head. It's not a problem so long as she remains in exile. But it's a big world, and laws have limits, but murder hobo's will end up looking over their shoulder the rest of their days. Explain how that is not fair?
I believe our characters were rather high level when they were arrested. They could probably pick a fight, but the city was the main hub in the campaign, and we didn't want to become outlaws there over a song and the random guard who didn't like us. We still managed to make it a much bigger problem than it had to be, but by making a completely unnecessary deal with mafia, not by killing somebody
The way i keep the party in check is by having the universe keep track of the good and evil actions that the party does, if the balance leans towards evil actions, the world would be affected With evil morality characters wanting to be friends and good leaning characters from around the world being more and more interested, the more evil, the higher level the good leaning characters will get
the same way works when the party is leading towards good actions.
evil leaning gives you access to trading with evil morality characters such as camps that are normally hostile. Which can have some benefits.
good morality would mean you are more likely to have traders in the cities to trade with you.
Whichever way the party decides to go, they will get benefits along with some downsides.
Junction Gate, a mobile task force whose primary goal is to defeat a bandit warlord (who's the equivalent to a level 20 Oathbreaker Paladin), would probably make short work of the high level.
It might be a modern fantasy setting, but this force has futuristic gear unavailable to anyone else.
Simple, high level guards
The problem with high level guards is that if those high levels are so common then why do we need adventurers?
I send up to four minibosses that specifically target one of them while the guards act as fun cannon fodder. The four minibosses are usually a tank, supporter, heavy-hitter, and some sort of annoying prick. They're all lesser than an individual party member, but as a team can pick off players one-by-one.
Just so you know, the comment talking about the human mind that you liked is a bot with a scam link on its channel
PANR has tuned in.
My campaigns always have 4-5 other parties of NPCs that the players are aware of, that take quests they do not, and are direct competition for reputation. Keeps em focused and happy.
Anti violence enchantment for the capital, if they fight it does small but permanent damage to their power/HP levels
Continue fighting and they'll end up a shrivelled shell of themselves
I don't. My players don't make it to high levels without earning it. That means they are invested in the story/world/their characters and aren't going to be violent vagabonds.
IF they did for some reason go about breaking laws, the resources expended to bring them to judgment would be appropriate to the crime committed and not their level. So they might get away with it. But if they go too far, well there's some god of Justice that might want a word with them. Or an anti party that wants to collect the bounty. Very personal crimes might mean they earn a nemesis. Zee Beschew's video about the help action comes to mind. Ghost Pig is the best!
If you think that you killed a high level necromancer, beware. You probably didn’t.
I feel that cyberpunk has a good answer to that. In a world where people like that are even semi common, the town guard would be more like cops on the beat and this fantasy realm would likely have something akin to the psychosquad. Maybe even funded so well they have teleportation circles around different cities, being able to respond quickly to any threats that might endanger a large part of a city.
Now I’m getting an idea for “Fantasy SWAT team”
I want to draw that.
i like the idea that a town would have a high level party or two on retainer, thats how most parties retire, settling down in a town they liked or in a town that liked them, and just rake in a monthly pay cheque to sit there and get involved if called upon, high level anti mage specialists, bulky tanks, talented healers, etc.
even just a handful in larger cities that can teleport to any village in the nation at a moments notice and the town guard having mages to cast the message spell and do magical investigations, would work, even better for dnd, cause then monster attacks arent always thwarted on time because either the mages were hit first, or theyre using hit and run tactics to get in and out before the backup arrives, or other techniques
I was considering getting into DnD and I came up with this system:if you commit a crime you become wanted,this causes you to gain bounty and to be considered a threat if you get a little too silly,tier 1 is simple,bounty hunters know where you are,tier 2 is when the kingdom starts sending guards in,tier 3 you become an active threat where you can threaten whole cities if you are powerful enought (which grand's a lot of loot but is very risky) tier 4 it's all of the above but turned up to the maximum,tier 5 you get generals and other famous people going after you,6 you are a kingdom wide threat,the kingdom panics throwing all they have at you and you can threaten giant cities and even the capital.
In our curse of Strahd game (very, very minor spoilers btw) when two of the players started killing all the town guard, as they wanted to get to the mayor and rob his house, the following happened to shut it down
1. My character, who was good-aligned, was horrified at the senseless murder, and fled the scene, leaving them a man down and without any utility casting
2. After they were arrested and escaped, Strahd himself showed up to hand their asses to them, in order to stop them from destroying the town within his territory
Suffice to say, order was restored. and also the campaign ended.
I like what Fable did. I haven’t had any significant issues yet, but my first idea is guards that keep increasing in level and numbers until the party is drained and either killed or put into a supermax prison of sorts..
One method is to make THEM the guards. If they are the knights of a realm, now they're held accountable for their actions with the punishment being stripped of title or even imprisoned/exiled.
My solution is that everything is interconnected.
In a small town, you have Ranger Chauncey and his trusty hound that leads the perimeter guard with some buff farmers and the citizens are armed themselves in case the perimeter guard is forced back by some particularly nasty animal or goblins or something. The stone temple is an easily fortified position from which to deploy or take a stand with access to food stores and healing depending on the number and levels of Clerics available. House-to-house guerilla tactics are utilized to the best of the Commoners' abilities, because they know a face-to-face fight will likely end with them cut in half and their assailants maybe taking 1-2 damage out of 8+ HP.
Scale that up to settlements with a more modern definition of organizations, agencies, or even bureaucracies, and you'll end up with the likes of standing armies being outfitted by the armorers that had their iron shipments ruined by the PCs led by slightly stronger/weaker adventurers recruited by various faiths, if not already knighted or of higher nobility in service to the country. Even if it's a scale where the populace wouldn't fear enough to defend themselves like the small town does, the town guard alone is effectively the entirety of the small town's standing force with better equipment, tactics, and most importantly backup, with the local garrison being better than that, and the combined might of the highest-level officials better than that. If it ever escalates to the point where the magic item shopkeeper is brought in to outfit the NPCs, the party is either leaving the city alive or in coffins. Granted, a swords-and-sorcery-level king might only be a Level 13 Fighter, but he'll have access to the mutual defense from multiple generals and high priests of comparable strength, at least one level 7+ court wizard, level 5+ royal guards, possibly spies, assassins, visiting allied forces, or combat animals such as good dogs. Not even mentioning the sheer weight of the cannon fodder's action economy being ordered to "AIM TO THE ROBED ONE! LOOSE ARROWS!" For real, if you're the "good" party and your combat encounter includes "10 dogs surround the party and attempt to both grapple you and knock you prone so the guards can close in, do you kill them?", then you're absolutely the bad guys in the situation.
Having killing a guard go under the same rules as Frieren is also helpful: have it be common knowledge that killing a guard in the line of duty is an immediate death penalty. Maybe the PC’s could be given a quest in certain circumstances instead. One fun option is “A sliver of bone”: it starts as a small ball that can be easily slipped into food, especially oatmeal’s, gruel, or stews. It opens up inside of a stomach, and tears the persons stomach from the inside. High level adventurers probably wouldn’t die very quickly from it, but it would hinder them greatly. Since it’s physical, removing it magically would be difficult, especially if you don’t actually know what it is. Not to mention, who’s going to want to remove it from them? Say what you like about hoard of the dragon queen, but it gave me that little bit of fun to work with.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned the magic statues in Waterdeep. Good luck fighting those...
As a power move, make the party take down another party of rogue adventurers. Subtly let them know what happens if they themselves step out of line.
This is the music from dungeons 4. Lovely
I am currently designing a game and I have a few ideas. (Which this video has helped me improve so thanks.)
Of course there are village constables, town/ city guards along with baliffs who work for the courts enforcing warrants and collect debts etc. (Who can get more powerful as mentioned in the video.) But at higher levels the party can run into national level law enforcement like marshals, the millatery or bounty hunters depending on the setting. (Or a combination of these groups.) Depending on who the party has annoyed different enemies will come after them such as:
Aristocratracy will send the royal guard.
The thieves guild, bandit chiefs and crime lords will send assassins.
The merchants guild (who won't like the party killing it's members) will send mercenaries. (Basically more powerful bounty hunters)
Religious groups will send the inquisition.
Of course less aggressive ways of dealing with the party included as mentioned NPC's not wanting to deal with the party but also the players background features could stop working, some backgrounds say "only if you are in good standing" or "will not endanger themselves" etc.
If the party becomes a problem they’ll get one of two options; either the church sends in a few paladin/cleric teams or the thieves guild uses assassins and poisons in the dark. Otherwise a wizard can usually lock down the party when done correctly. A simple wall of force is very effective if the party doesn’t have the right spells
I found a homebrew D&D guide book to create level 30+ characters. Its supposed to be for solo D&D games but it could work for NPCs i guess
Local Authority have a deal in place with The Inevitables: If Person or Persons of Interest cause directly or indirectly the (insert percentage here) breakdown of social order and/or infrastructure (insert extra terms) Persons of Interest involved will forfeit Souls, Body and earthly possessions for a period no less than (insert figure here) years per (insert offenses and damages here) to be served from moment of retrieval of said Persons of Interest by the Marut. Plural. (bang the gavel and drop the prestidigitated mic and walk off...)
At my table its made clear that there are three level 20 bounty hunters who will start stalking the players if they do anything dangerous or wreckless like murder etfc. These bounty hunters will hunt to kill and a level 5 murder hobo vs a legvel 20 is obvious who would win.
Not a dm but i helped making a character that went to negotiate with the party(they were still going to kill the bbeg, but became arrogant and started becoming not so good guys). The deal was " i can make high quality gear for specificaly to kill the one you are looking for, but on one condition, all of you must NEVER come to my kingdom" but creating great magical gear wasn't all he could do, he was strong enough to fight the bbeg, and he made an entire set of gear specifically to fight the pcs in case they were to attack him
Even when attacked he gave them a chance to accept the deal, after sending the attacker flying to a rock, calling him disrespectful, in the end due to the party having good rolls they managed to kill him, but all if them died except for the cleric who was so weak after the fight that she did not make to the city and fell to the injuries
The players weren't even mad , they knew it something would happen but the characters became arrogant and they roleplayed that correctly, it would be weird to listen to a random guy who appeared in the middle of a island in the Sky who to their knowledge was a vampire(he was half vampire, dude went to negotiate at day)
If i meet the players im tempted do greet them with "hi, im the vampire that tpk'd you all, nice to meet ya"
Heres a good way which takes a little effort from the dm:
Make a "rival group" that adventures as well. Tie them loosely to the story so that you can let the parties become friends if needes or enemies. Have them roughly the same level as the party and. Here and there they can hear rumors about what they have done etc to hint to the party that they are not weak. And make the rival party a good battle combo wirh synergy. Worked for me 100%
Treat it like a GTA Five stars
Threat of conscription works well. If the party draws too much attention from the crown, the crown wants them to do something.
I like using bounty hunters. Usually adventuring parties dont try to hide their tactics, so word gets out that its a part consisting of (insert classes here) and another party that just so happens to be able to counter the majority of their abilities comes in and deals with them
I like to give the party a quest to go hunt down adventurers who have gone rogue if the party like the type to cause trouble, which helps calm down the people eager to get into combat and is also a threat that if they do anything wrong they are going to be on the receiving end of these bounties.
Main thing i had was the receptionist of the guild, she basically was a god like being that like living among mortal. She like the menial task and had others lead the guild she made. have murderhobos? not anymore when she hunts them down. breaking the law and guards can't beat them, there is the receptionist. this was a homebrew game with different rules when it came to leveling but overall she was unstoppable as she was the one that ruled the realm. granted I also had my original character as well who was placed as guildmaster by said receptionist. As he technically came from a different realm (Original homebrew i was a player in) he has skills and abilities that no one else could learn. Also as the only known God was busy being a receptionist there was no resurrecting the dead, even undead required a great deal of magic and an actual body.
Theres a reason for MaxTac in Cyberpunk
I’ve found keeping areas of the town (based on wealth) having few more veteran guards/soldiers in groups of 3-5. Later in the game if need be the Court or Grand Magus can be called in for backup but typically I keep guards non-magic casting. Level 5s would go against 2 level 2s 2 level 1s and a single level above the party’s to keep a sense of dread. The commanders always got a trick up their sleeve.
Not exactly cities, it's on a much larger scale.
My players were running a kingdom simulator in Pathfinder and one of the players decided he wanted to go visit a much larger neighboring kingdom. He didn't really do much research into the place, he just knew that there were people from there that were messing with the island the party was trying to settle. If he had done any amount of research into the place he would have known that they are an ancient and powerful kingdom. Now, the rules of the world, as set forth by the system we were using (Birthright) set out that if you're a ruler and a vassal dies or betrays you, as the ruler of that kingdom you know immediately, because of the magic tied to the act of becoming a vassal.
So, when that player decided to go over there and murder two high ranking nobles, without knowing they were both vassals, not only did he commit a war crime he alerted the ruler directly that there was a war crime being committed.
The ruler's response was quick. Realm level spells were cast by multiple casters to find out who would dare. The individual was discovered and located and a response team was sent out.
Then, finding the island they were on to be infested with monsters, they mustered armies and started purging the island. If one thing came from there and killed a pair of high ranking nobles on their own estate then more could. We can't take that risk. Purge the island. We'll take it over and turn it into a summer home.
I ended the campaign after that, because there was no way they could survive against what they would send. There would have been no negotiation. They would just keep sending troops until nothing remained and they could afford it. To be fair, I did warn them against going over there. There were ways they could have handled it that would have turned out much better for them, like how the use of undead is punishable by death and so is supplying someone with dead bodies for use in necromancy. But again, no research into the place. All they would have had to do to stifle the threat to the island was gather information and evidence and submit it to the authorities there, but he was so stuck on brute forcing the campaign I don't think it ever crossed his mind to actually learn anything about the world I built.
I run my campaign in the abyss, so high-level guards are demons. I use a Balor as the captain of the gaurd and the highest point of escalation
I firmly believe in the real life adage that there is always someone bigger, stronger, and/or better than you out there. you WILL eventually 'meet' them.
You don't target the players, you target their NPCs. By the time they become high enough level, they are bound to have a group of npcs which they adore, you have the guild/king imprison them to bring in the party as a trap. Either they come willingly to surrender, try to rescue the npc. Or leave their friend to the hands of the law.
In my setting we have many different instances. First off, all magic beyond lvl 5 is effectively outlawed and hard to come by. The Academy is an instution that tries to control who canlesrn magic and any unlawful or dangerous use of magic will be persecuted. This applies to powerful magic items as well.
The regulators of the Academy are highly specialized mages, clerics and paladins that know exactly how to shut down magic.
If the party really fucks up, they will get the Moonhunters sent after them. An elite squad of effectively lycanthroph bloodhunters. They are the next best thing this setting has to space marines.
If you piss off the R&D department of the Academy, Rumerik, they might send some of their Masked Apostel after you. These people are special investigators, powerful mages and have magical plague masks effectively stuck to their faces, granting them extraordinary powers.
But if you are an adventurer who's part of an official adventurer's guild branch, the guild is obligated by law to deal with you. Which is probably the best outcome for depending on who takes on your bounty. It might be another party or two, or some of the staff of the guild. Who are more often than not retired adventurer themselves.
I prefer to give them a subtle hint by having a city guard politely tell them to return the stolen items and be out of town by sunset or he'll have to send in the boys for a little chat. "said boys are mid level wizards who prefer to deal with high level problems using mage hand and two bags of holdings." Repairing damage is cheaper than repairing damage and hiring/training new guards.
If murder has taken place and the guards can't deal with it, a secret guards corps agents gets sent in to deal with them. Think Agent 47 in a D&D setting.
In the homebrew setting I run, there's always a few high level heroes wandering around, the most recurring is one Sylveen Frei, an Eladrin 20 Crown paladin/10 Battle Master fighter and acknowledged in-universe as the strongest knight in the realm. While she will generally be an ally to any good aligned party, I do expect one day I will get to show them how much of a nightmare it is to fight a level 30 with utterly cracked equipment and prove WHY she is the strongest. Being that as a type of elf her lifespan is "yes," unless someone manages to Lord British her, she'll be a persistent threat to any evil PCs in this setting.
Depends on the setting/city. High magic larhe city your average patrol is 3 tanks with 1 caster and 1 scout.
The scout's job is to get help and stalk the offenders
Here’s my law enforcement essay
Yes I have thought about this for a while
You got your militia (leather armor volunteers with basic weapons) for small farm settlements
Guards (basic patrolmen and fighters, Archers,
A few spell casters) for the city making their patrols catching small time crooks and bolstering their superiors
And then the crown guard
(Basically the SWAT team, knights magebanes sharpshooters Griffin mounts potions and some basic magic items between them)
If you get that far up the ladder you get assassins, bountyhunters and other adventurers dispatched against you (also you get put on a blacklist so no one except other criminals will deal with you which can certainly cripple a party)
And if me stepping in didn’t fix this and it still escalates
You get entire armies dispatched against your party
As well as *silver squadrons* dispatched to the cities
(basically the National Guard, highly trained elite paladins, full on dead eye snipers, Walking arcane vortexes aka novas, inquisitors trained to track the party and burn out any connection/friend they may have. and finally they are all equipped with high level gear, armored wyvern mounts, good potions and snazzy silver armor decals to set them apart from the others)
Essentially ensuring the party has to pay for their Crimes, die or go underground for a while
Any further and divine avatars/punishers get involved
How does this work in a campaign where the Big Bad is a threat to the country? Do you just not run those, or are there presumably many of these threats already holding up the attention of the national guard in the story? If so, does the party drawing so much effort towards stopping them lead to weaknesses elsewhere where the BBEG gains ground? Is there ever an opportunity for the party to point out that these people are going after the lesser evil? (Does the fact they are a lesser evil impact certain Paladins that are chasing them due to their Oaths?)
@@tylerian4648 it is a role-play campaign I am running this in
All the bad guys are evil kings crime lords and a few dragons here and there that the adventures handle with the standard method
All the bad guys except for the meat lugs employed to the bad guys are surprisingly well-versed in hiding their crimes (like some actual “criminals” we know in the real world)
Keep in mind the “National Guard” is literally just a few people (highly trained a few people but still)
It’s the silver “squad” not organization
There have been win conditions for the current arc where they literally just collect evidence on the bad guy and alert the crown to their Misdeeds and wyvern/griffins flew in the next day arresting people
It’s like the PCs are bounty hunters/mercenaries assisting the actual law-enforcement officers
Yes there has been win conditions
Where the party pointed at someone and they got arrested
And before you ask the Silver squad is mostly trained for urban environments like tones and cities and it’s members are carefully selected (aka a few teams of a few people at max)
The party acts as mercenaries working for the crown dealing with things that are a threat outside the city that need to be taken carefully (a.k.a. can’t just throw army at it)
Like litchs in catacombs or dragons in mountains
As well as in city threats such as crime lords that are hiding quite well and tyrants in other jurisdictions
The silver squad basically the Secret Service as well as the “National Guard”
Their main goal is to keep an eye on the Crown but are called in if the crown guard (which are basically just upper city guards for other nobles/wizard which also always needs supervision and the SWAT team if needed)
It’s kind of a political campaign
if the guards can defeat the "high level party that prevented apocalypses" (lets be real, you don't get to LV 17~20 without dealing with at least one world threat) or divine beings are appearing to deal with them, it surely begs the question of where the heck they were and why they didn't appear to deal with said world ending events
or any particular big threats on the area around the city that the players had to deal with
My first comment on a solution was a joke, here’s an actual solution, make a normal guard that can deal with low level and in large numbers deal with mid level.
Then you have the King have his own personal guard force with better armor and weapons, and can maybe cast a few spells, maybe just a couple damaging cantrips or just spells made to annoy and trap.
Then also have mercenaries be sent after the party because the King’s guard is really only gonna be in the capital or wherever the king goes
The way I would combat murder hobos is this. Say if a party of 4 level 10 adventures steals from a Shop in a small town For a magical item, the Shopkeep notices that and tries to stop them but even though he is quite leveled He is out of his armor and gets killed by the party now the town guard notices the fight and tries to intervene and the party kills them too, which is probably about 20 to 30 level 3 to 5 guards and 2 level 6 battle master guard captains and perhaps one level 7 knight who is the Burgermeister of the town Of course the townsfolk would either hide or run for the Hills perhaps to the local Lord who would send himself with his personal retinue of knights and soldiers from the nearby Garrison to deal with the murderous bandits if the noble fails and is killed along with the rest of his force then the entire kingdom would be hostile towards the party shop keeps for example would close their doors if they recognize the party. in The taverns if the party is recognized the Tavern keepers and the patrons(most of whom are adventurers) will become hostile and both places will alert the city guard immediately. The protector of the realm would send out high level oath of vengeance paladins with some high level rogues, high-level spellcasters, and high-level fighters to sniff them out and capture them all of whom are level 12 to 17, particularly they would try to ambush one of the party members or arrive to a fight randomly if they are found by anyone else(bounty hunters, patrols, even bandits) eventually the realms forces will overwhelm them and be perhaps captured if not executed immediately. So overall, I would make it so that it becomes so hard to do anything that the murderhobos will be killed outright or be captured and taken out of the campaign perhaps for future antagonist use.
I love using grog the giant of the earth, he's some giant who can sense evil doers but like only in towns and city and such so if the party gets to well unruly and just starts doing to much bad grog the giant appears from bumfuck nowhere (he has a giant ring of teleportation mixed with a necklace of absolute stealth you get it right?) and grabs them to take em to "da jail hoose" and if they fight back well he's wearing armor made by the literal GOD OF ORDER so he's nigh on invincible and no he isn't stupid, his accent is just incredibly thick and he only speaks giant, common is a second language so he sounds slow but he has like a 19 in intelligence and a 18 in wisdom he's a good guy if you aren't bad and one of my main reason for never putting my big bads in city's or towns (metal reason is their usually to evil or crazy to not incite a damn riot every other Tuesday)
Same story as with dealing with any criminal -- you impose consequences they can understand. Make it boring and non-viable to keep being an asshole. Don't just escalate the threats you throw at them, because that's just what they're looking for. That will only reward the bad behavior.
My favorite way of doing this is to offer them exactly what they're looking for, but in disguise. An evil god/agent presents themselves as the anti-fun police guy, the cool one who wants to enable them to party and be reckless while everyone else tries to stop them. He seems chill and fun and understanding. He guides the party towards removing targets in his way for him, making it sound like it's something else. If the party falls for it, not only are they in huge trouble with the law, but now, they can have a revenge motive against the one who tricked them, while simultaneously pleading "the devil made me do it" and requesting to be allowed to hunt them down to fix things.
Theres a reason the kingdom is a kingdom. Access to funds, military, and connections.
Ive personally used character leveled enemies that were hired to deal with the party. A mage division in the military that has access to level 9 spells. And my favorite use their notoriety against them, more of the world will be exposed to their hijinks and will react to them appropriately l.
To answer the question in the title: Higher level cops.
I just shove 3 to 5 unimaginably powerful NPCs into each and every city, being at least Level 15 per NPC!
For instance the main “Home Base” kingdom of Crimsonscale has a team called the Five Supreme Flames that govern and protect the city, being
Inferneos, The Warm-Hearted: Adult Red Dragon and elected king of Crimsonscale who drew Balance from the Deck of Many Things when he was just a young wyrm. Level 20 Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer on top of the Red Dragon stats
Grezz’urath, The Law’s Eternal Arm: Awakened Skeleton, judge, and executioner who swore to the Raven Queen he would never resurrect an unwilling soul. Necromancy Wizard plus Grave Domain Cleric
Bri’ente, The Wild Sovereign: Archfey chef and moral support that’s kind of just there to help, but can summon forth unimaginable surges of sheer magical force. Wild Magic Sorcerer plus Circle of Dreams Druid
Diana Baan, The Kingdom’s Shield: Human diplomacy expert and religious leader, specializes in taking down otherworldly threats. Oath of The Crown Paladin plus College of Valor Bard
Jh’mrak, The One-Man Battalion: Half-Orc war strategist and kill people to death person. Psi Warrior Fighter and Path of The Zealot Barbarian
After a certain point people can't do anything to stop them. Many people wont even try. People will run away from them like they run away from armies. They want the throne? They can likely have it, along with the fear (rather than the loyalty) of the nobles and commons. This is how you get evil empires. Some people will stand up against them even knowing it is hopeless and will be easily crushed. Players will quickly find that it is not actually that fun when you can just have whatever they like.
Nobody expetxs the level 25 guards with epic boons.
Haven't really played DnD that much or DM'd ever, but I think that a reputation system is an excellent way to enforce law. If you have a really thought-out world, then it could get VERY complicated. Image a reputation system 1-10 where 1 is "never heard of 'em" and 10 is "On the news level famous" and it goes where there are positive levels and negative levels like 90% of people who know about you think you're good people, while the other 10% focus on the bad parts of your story. Kinda simple, right? Wrong. There are many kinds of reputations. Local popularity, then Citywide popularity if your city is big enough, then Countrywide popularity, before Kingdomwide and then Worldwide popularity. The problem is, how are these areas separated? How do they react and spread word? Say you're heroes in city A, which has big trade relations with cities B and C. City C has a neighborhood that you pillaged, so the word of your terror spreads slowly through city C. Meanwhile, trade caravans from city A are spreading gossip and news: Your group is a hero. News spreads, and city C has a chunk of their city, which knows you as evil, so rumors clash between fame and infamy. Cities A and B have been traded the gossip that's going around all throughout city C: Your Party is either a menace or a saint: They aren't sure. City B has no idea what to think, but city C has an actual pillaged neighborhood while city A hasn't stated their full reasoning behind liking your party, so they back behind the evil party side of the conflict. Many residents of city A know about your party's heroics, so they think city C has made up things and staged their heroes. Conflict breaks out between the 3 cities, people fearing war are moving every which way and rumor spreads to the nearby country and many cities are backing behind one side or another. Your party has caused a civil war due to their being "two-faced." Nearby countries are also hearing of this, and the more invested in said country's economy are planning to either join or attempt to stop it by either understating the conflict or assassinating the main point of said conflict. Your pettiness and confusing alignment have basically caused a continental war, and now the over the span of years, your party now has the highest level assassins and bounty hunters that are paid enough and close enough to care about it all coming to either defend or attack your party, all while the continent is plunged into war by gossip. Of course, this whole hypothetical is only possible due to high gossip levels, many trade routes, and the high importance of the country and area you are in. Butterfly effect.
Settle it in a duel
"Add a comment..." - youtube for some reason
CZcams WHY
So far, I've never had to enforce laws, actually. I gave the master thief a chance to steal, and I gave the necromancer a battleground strewn with corpses and enough chaos that no one could do anything about it.
I figure that if I indulge their specific crime fantasy in the way they want behind a skill wall their skills enable them to do at least once, they're a lot less likely to do the crimes that I'm less prepared for.
That said, my setting does have a lot of alternate punishments than just death for crimes big enough. Some towns use basilisk venom to petrify their death row, not even allowing them the courtesy of the afterlife.
In once city, there is what is known as "The Criminal Orchard," where their death row are slowly turned into fruit trees and shrubs, so their bodies will sustain the community they waged their crimes against. This affect can also be undone by a high level enough caster, which also means it isn't death and no protection they have against death and no assurance of an afterlife can be any comfort.
I think we'll be fine.
I'm going to give an answer I can only describe as Chaotic Lawful. I don't. By high level I can only assume you mean levels 17-20 described in the DMG as "Masters of the World" meaning they have moved beyond being favored heroes of a nation to being favored heroes of Gods and dealing with existential threats even fighting literal deities. So frankly from a story perspective if the heroes decide to return to Bumfuck Nowhere the guards aren't going to be able to do anything if they break the law they just won't and realistically they should be able to. BUT the gods will notice. If a high level party starts to murderhobo a town you can bet there will be prayers and common folk will entreat higher powers even, demons or devils, for help. The question isn't how will the town deal with these demigods breaking their laws, the question is what consequences will befall them. Now I have always treated D&D as a story of consequences, they players need opponents so if the players start doing bad things, they'll have to fight good creatures same for evil, law, and chaos. So the town burns to the ground or appeases them no question they just now have to deal with the larger universe.
Bounty hunters.
The adventurers at the table are not the only adventurers in the world. many are looking to make a name for themselves, and all at varying skills. If they see notices at adventuring guild of the PCs as a group of criminals with bounties, those adventurers are going to hunt them down. I will have several of my own DM PC characters hunt down the party. Still a winnable fight, and with the mission to capture. Of course if the players are intentionally going around and just killing others for the f*ck of it, then I'll just stop the campaign. I'm not hosting for murder hobos. Thankfully, I have not had to encounter such a thing, as all of my players are quite the opposite of murder hobos. If anything, they want to negotiate first if they can, and fight only when they need to.
Petty crimes a high level party can probably get away with through mild show of force or high level charisma skills. For small towns and remote villages they will trounce the local guard. If this is truely a remote independent settlement maybe the characters get away with only moral/alignment penalties but if that town pays taxes to someone long term consequences will come. After all why wouldnt the crown have high level divination to see the past and identify the party.
When it comes to metropolis size places the player characters likely will encounter local legends. Named NPCs in-universe. Water deep for example Khelben Arunsun.
If the characters are truly epic levels and uniquely power able to challenge the most powerful unique characters of the real, (things like Elminster) they will encounter things like avatars of justice and angles of vengeance.
simple, theguards are always op lol or they kill everyone or eventually stronger hero NPCs will start hunting them as the BBEG lol
Doesn't anyone TALK to their players? "This is not the type of game I want to run. Apologies, but if you don't want to play as the good guys, then you'll have to find another DM." All the effort of scheming and plotting against your players sounds exhausting and unfun. Like an arms race that will either frustrate you until you break or make your players hate you for becoming an antagonistic DM. I'm not saying there should be no consequences, but if the PCs are behaving in ways that make you feel like you need to DO something, you need to TALK TO YOUR PLAYERS.
I make NPCs generally likeable and helpful. I give the player characters a place in the world, and a sense of their social relationships. I let them call on, and even rely on those relationships. Guess what? No murder hobos.
DM for the last 39+ years here (in some of those years DMing almost daily), to weigh in.
It isn't the job of the DM to make crime pay - that's the job of NPCs that exist in the DM's world, ones that should for story purposes largely be known entities long before the players make their character delve into a life of crime. There's nothing more frustrating for a player than making an in-character decision based on what they know of the world, only to get blind-sided by information that wasn't just kept from them but actually invented after-the-fact just to "gotcha" them. Creating NPCs after-the-fact for the purposes of bringing criminal NPCs to justice needs a framework. I'll expound:
Let's begin with say... a small kingdom of roughly 50000 people currently ruled by a widow queen, and as she's older with two daughters already she does not wish to remarry. One of these two daughters will marry to create the next king, or one will inherit the throne from her. It's made the queen political enemies to operate this way from her new (-ish) seat of power, and she's dealt with those enemies via spectacles of public beheading... sending a clear message to those who would question her claim on the throne.
How does the queen avoid dying to capable assassins, maintain rule over a noble class that only begrudgingly acknowledges her, and keep her kingdom well policed so that no public outcry mounts for her removal as ruler? These should be addressed by the DM upon creation of the kingdom and its current political landscape -- NOT left as fuzzy unmentioned details that the DM only reveals after players make their characters do something criminal. Even the skeleton of secret bits that players and their PCs don't know should be worked out ahead of time. The queen has a limited pool of assets, even from her position of power -- only so much available gold without a tax increase or some other gathering of funds (that the PCs would likely hear about), only so many magical objects, only so many capable spell-casters in her employ, only so many guards loyal enough that she can trust them to be inside her keep, only so many servants that she knows won't shank or poison her. The PCs, if they want to bring her down, should have a doable (if difficult) task. And if the queen wants to bring THEM down (due to crimes they've committed) she must use her remaining resources to do so.
We'll say the queen quietly keeps a few handy magical items on her, the best she could scour from the land:
- a choker of regeneration that won't come off unless the chosen command word is spoken
- an anklet that makes the wearer immune to poison and disease
- another anklet that can cast Vortex Warp 10x per day (regains 1d3 charges every 24 hours)
The queen quietly serves a powerful Dao, and she has found this Dao several (we'll say 7) other willing servants. This is a level 3 warlock conclave led by the queen -- all of them with a genie pact to the same Dao, Pact of the Chain Master, the invocations Investment of the Chain Master and Voice of the Chain Master, and the spell Flock of Familiars. This secret society uses invisible shapeshifting familiars (imps and quasits) to spy on noble families and quietly kill the queen's enemies without revealing themselves. They also secretly investigate major criminal offenses, to root out organized crimes and make sure dangerous people don't remain at large. The queen also keeps one wizard she actually trusts, a member of her extended family, to help her rule -- the wizard uses spells like L3 up-casted Continual Flames in her keep and in city streets (to counter the spell Darkness and other light-dousing magic)... Arcane Lock, Glyphs of Warding, and Magic Mouth within her keep to help guard the place from intruders... divination spells like Clairvoyance to help her spy on her kingdom... etc etc. The wizard has all the knowledge of the kingdom, so their spell-book contains every spell up to whatever level the wizard can cast - but the wizard might only be L5 or L7, that's still quite formidable and far better than a generic "mage" NPC template from the monster manual. The queen's interior guard is armed and armored with magical gear. She has a small army of golems in case of insurgence. The queen has a secret accord with two of the three local druid orders - they spy for her to help maintain her laws, and she enacts laws they want to protect wilderness areas and stop poachers. The number and power of these druid orders is decided ahead of time too, as they might get whittled down or wiped out at some point. Even how much gold is in the queen's treasury should be honestly kept, as she might run low on funds if she starts playing big spender in an effort to go after the PCs.
I use real world military tactics, such as flanking, or blocking a path with a phalanx and shield wall. And I replace guards with fighter pc sheets. A single high level guard can attack at least 8 times. Now add levels of either ranger, cleric, wizard, etc on top of that. Fighter's number of actions + range/magic/healing = decent defense. A rich city would also have guards with enchanted armor and weapons, such as a capital city, though these would be SWAT level guards. A technologically advanced country would have weapons and armor made by artificers, such as Warforged and guns. Different cultures have different fighting styles, such as the Arackocra heavily utalizing flying archers. Every major city has one overpowered captain of the guard, a homebrewed level 20 fighter + 15 or 20 levels in whatever class most represents the city, and is not limited to two classes. They are world bosses, and are only called in true emergencies. On top of that, most people who are not friends of the players would most likely report them, and would refuse to help them. Say goodbye to taverns, stores, and safe resting spaces.
Just a warning to power tripping DM's eager to throw in "Punisher" squads to deal with rogue parties. When you reach this point your campaign is effectively over
Talk with the party first, try an sort things out or (assuming the group doesn't disband over it) you'll set yourself up for cheesed off players sarcastically suggesting your superteam can go and deal with whatever the threat of the day is because who needs some scrubby adventurers when those guys can clearly stomp all over it without breaking a sweat
Try to keep things campaign consistent and don't throw out ridiculous levels of ass whopping to keep your players Under Control. It's better to end the campaign than ruin it
Guards are leveled NPCs low income cities are base stats most are level 5 and rich is level 10 guards. All have no kill orders
start off with losing local services.
then military has lv 5-10, using mixed unit tactics, attacking from range, retreating whenever they are harmed enough.
action economy *will* wear them down, once they can't rest.
I have a question. How do I stop the rogue in my game from stealing EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT NAILD DONE. This player always tries (and succeeds with) stealing from stores NPC’s and even payers. He is a good guy but he is a problem in some situations i will of course try speaking with him again but if anyone has any advice or suggestions for a steampunk style campaign I would be very happy to hear it. Thanks
Of course, the first step you should do when your high-level PCs are being a societal nuisance is to simply talk to them.
He originally created this as a story-writing aid so he could reuse the characters he came up with, but my friend has something known as... The Dimensional Guardians.
Imagine, if you will, the Multiverse as you know it. The Material Plane, the various Elemental Planes and law/chaos/good/evil aligned planes, the Ethereal Plane binding them all together, etc.
Now picture the Multiverse as a single planet. One planet within a star system, and then that one star system within a whole galaxy, then that single galaxy amongst the entire universe...
Welcome to the idea of the Greater Multiverse, where each of the "planets" is a dimension with its own gods and sets of rules that govern existence within it, and each "system" is governed and maintained by a council of greater deities, and so on.
The Dimensional Guardians are, in a sense, the mortal "SWAT team" of the Greater Multiverse. Whenever things start to happen within one dimension that could upset the balance and spill over into the Greater Multiverse, the DGs are sent in to handle the issue. They handle all sorts of problems, be it instabilities in a dimension's magical energies, an entity with a corrupting influence growing beyond its expected parameters... or upstart little shits who are throwing things out of balance, like if they're trying to overthrow gods or some shit.
DGs had originally been ordinary people who had caught the interest of the Greater Multiverse's gods, and were offered a measure of power beyond what most mortals have. While the fledgling members are only moderately stronger than your average PC at the same level, their higher-ranking members are not the sort of person you want to fuck with. They're stupidly hard to put down, they have a massive arsenal of powers and gear at their disposal, and they have inflated stats to reflect both the favor they've gained from their bosses and their own personal growth through their experiences. Experiences that have seen them doing things like facing entire armies single-handedly, killing demigods, and sometimes even arranging the destruction of an entire dimension if it's deemed necessary.
The higher ranks of the DGs have even grown beyond level 20, transcending the barriers on their growth that PCs would be bound by... and some have even ascended enough in power that they can basically see their own character sheets.
So basically, in any of the games we run, there's a chance that, somewhere in the game world, there's at least one of these individuals walking around who's capable of breaking the BBEG in half like a piece of uncooked spaghetti... and the PCs could be just one murderhobo spree away from drawing their attention.
Bounty hunters
Give them a business, and threaten them with losing their campaign-long investment.
I don't. I just cut them off of any support they'd receive from NPCs who heard about their crimes. So that cleric NPC that was meant to keep them alive because they don't have a healer? Well they're on their own now.
But honestly? Why should you enforce them? If the hyper-elite guards cannot take on the dark lord but the party that is destined to defeat him goes down easily where is the point? Instead let them become that menace that shakes the world. Your party fighting an army as a „wanted” arc. Also for minor crimes: get relations with the NPCs to change. If they summoned meteors in the middle of the town square the notice board will tell everybody
Depends on the reason that they are doing it.
If they are doing it to do actual things that are not damaging the story or stuff i just give them a reasonable combat or something close to that. I give them some opportunities to make them look themselfs innocent and nothing hapens.
If they are doing it to try me, well... i just throw them maxtac. Like literal maxtac from the cyberpunk universe. They still have guns and things. If they beat them i just give them some special dialoge options and a little intimination boost. They like it, i like it we all are happy.
If they are breaking the story in a way that is not fun i make the game not fun. As an example when one guy goes "let's kill everyone in the castle on our way out. Im sure the leader of the castle won't mind it and still do our deal with him!" I just warn him once. I don't like interrupting their "imagination" so i don't warn them more. I just go make the encounter give almost no loot, give them permanent debuffs, make most things end sad. You have that one doggy at your camp remember? The one that you all loved so much? Well it WAS a nice doggy! You have that child that you where helping remember? Well im gona make you kill him/her then the next NPC you meet is gona be the child's parent or something like that. Im gona take the every single opportunity i have to deal you emotional damage. The damage that nobody can escape.
(Sorry for bad english in advance)
All executioners are level 20
90% of these responses are just DnD versions of the GTA star system
I _don't!_ The city can't enforce the law against them, what would they even do? Instead, I have a team of adventurers form and keep them hidden from the players until said adventurers are strong enough to take the party on.
I don't.
Because my players aren't out to ruin the setting, or all the hard work I put into crafting a fun and engaging experience for them. Good players police themselves. If your players don't buy into the world you've made, and more importantly the social contract that everyone is there to play and have fun together, *kick them*
Simple, the party isn't the only powerful people in the land, they are just the expendable ones.
You cause to many issues expect bounties and the high levle military people you were used instead of to be coming after you.
World needs to breath and having the party be the only powerful people in the world is the opposite of that.
Simple you dont enforce laws against a high level party, they are going to get away with what they want to get away with, and they must live with the bad reputation. The real question is. Is who else do they piss off besides local government authorities? They burned down an orphanage!? (Yes this happened in my game once) and the kindly caretaker of the orphanage was an ancient copper dragon who just loved humanoid children, as they always loved his riddles and games.... not someone you want on your bad side...... Think Batman Riddler but ancient dragon