The Cheapest M5 AND BMW's Most Exciting But Is It Worth The Risk?
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- A Brilliant Car You Should Never Buy? The E60 M5 is A Supercar Hiding In A Family Saloon. The race derived V10 and brilliant handling are undisputed BUT it has a reputation as a very risky purchase.. Brave or Brainless?
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I did and the 5% saving was much appreciated. Thanks Jack!
@@christophergavin9188 thanks buddy!! Hope to see you soon
The problem with all ‘affordable’ high end vehicles is the same: a car needs roughly 10-15% of its new list price spending on it annually to maintain it properly. When these cars get to 5-8 years old they depreciate into the purchasing budget of people who then can’t afford to maintain them properly because it’s a ‘£20k car’ now but still needs maintaining at ‘£100k car’ levels, so maintenance gets skimped and things start to go wrong, hence the reputation they all gain.
Your comment makes good sense
You're 100% correct.
Well said. I have been there and had the T-Shirt with a couple of Bentley's. My advice to anyone looking to run such a car is to do some serious research regarding the cars service history, avoid high numbers of owners, don't be put off by a high miler with low owners, find a good independent in advance of purchasing, and even after all that keep you r fingers crossed!
This 100% if you're lucky then keep for a year and bale after a year without anything major going wrong
While I agree at the rationale, 10-15% is a bit too much. It’s like 15k a year in maintenance for an M3. I have an F87 CS, and will probably spend 2% of its MSRP a year in the next decade of ownership. Even if a crank hub fails won’t be this much.
Owned one of these for the last 5 years, incredible car! I’ve found it to be very reliable too, I’ve owned many BMW’s over the years and this has to be one of the most reliable cars I’ve owned. They certainly love to drink fuel though!
Your channel has helped myself and other owners (with the same positive ownership expierence) immensely with DIY maintenance.
I always think of your channel when these get bought up and slagged off.
I guess the downside with these is that they’ve been cheap for so long and not maintained as they should. I also think many have been driven unsympathetically, ignoring the oil that is like treacle when cold.
Outliers exist.
Most people who comment on these have likely never owned one, let alone been in one.
@@TheM5Dog 100%
These were the last of the proper M5's really. But...........£15k to buy it, 15k to run it.
15k to buy. And an additional 15 if everything that can go wrong does go wrong. Only 2-3k for an essential upgrade, and much of the rest can go wrong with any car! Buy any used car, even a Lexus or Toyota, and there's the potential for repairs to equal or exceed the purchase price! Everything in life involves an assessment of risk.
£30k well spent!
@@nigel.w £2-3000 eh?
@@berwhaletheavengerYou clearly didn't bother to read or digest what I said, nor did you bother to watch, listen to, and digest this video. No problem, but why do you think I'm interested in reading half a dozen posts from you to me when you couldn't be bothered to read one of mine?
E39 was the last proper M5.
No. Unless you're wealthy, or extremely handy, with a garage loaded with a litany of high quality tools, of all types.
I'm neither. Not bankrupt yet.
Limited growth mindset
Or just know a mechanic who won't rip you off then if you can't afford it then maybe look to make some more money or just sell it?
I had a 2006 in Silverstone, when it ran, it was wonderful, but it spent most of it's life at the workshop, absolutely riddled with problems, maintenance on it is very demanding, so anyone wanting one, be prepared to spend on keeping it in good nick.
10k to rebuild the engine properly
This depends on what it's worth if the car depreciates to 8k and needs 10k worth of repairs just get rid of it because you might as well just spend 10k on your house instead atleast then bit better investment
100% BUY IT!
Everyone in the comments who is bashing the reliability of this car has either;
1. Never owned one and is a sheep parrotting what others who have never owned one say.
2. Owned one and didnt know how to run it properly or did so on a budget.
There are essentially only 2 "problems" that can kill the engine on this car. The rod bearings and the fuel injectors.
I say "problems" because they are only a problem if you let it become a problem.
I've known owners who have done over 100k miles on the original bearings. Others who have bent a rod at 60k miles. Proper warm up routine and servicing at no longer than every 3 to 4k miles should prolong the rod bearings.
Buying one used, for peace of mind just make sure that its had the bearings and fuel injectors done. If it hasnt then use it to bargain a lower price.
The other stuff commonly spouted on the internet relating to vanos, SMG and actuators are not engine killers and you should try and find one thats had them replaced, if not set some money aside to get them done.
All in all, assumings its not had any of the above jobs done, budget around £5 to £7k in preventative maintenance and it'll be the most fun you can have in a 4 door NA saloon.
I had zero issues apart from an O2 sensor.
Thank you 100% spot on!
100% correct
I’ve owned a 2007 LCI V10 M5 for 6 years now , I use it only in good weather May to September mainly as a weekend toy , from my ownership point of view it’s been fantastic and this is because I don’t use it for commuting to work or everyday shopping tasks , I’ve had the bearings changed 2k , both throttle actuators were £650 fitted and the injectors were only £365 ( plus £240 to fit ) , don’t listen to the scaremongers regarding mega expensive parts etc because parts are now very reasonable as i stated from my personal experience , just remember to warm the engine and gearbox up to temperature before taking the revs over 3k this is a must , yes tyres are expensive, breaks are expensive but the amount of miles I do I’ve only had to change the tyres once in 6 years but the break discs and pads are still going strong but will be changed probably in the summer , from my pov it’s not an everyday driver and if you do it will cost you a lot of money In maintenance and especially fuel ( on a long run around 26 but racing about I’ve had it below 8mpg ) 😂
PS: if anyone wants to know more about this car inside and out E39 Restorations with a guy called Streten is a fantastic watch from purchasing the car to stripping the engine down etc etc … absolutely brilliant channel.
Where did you get your work done?
Good to hear from an actual owner and an actual realistic use case in 2024+.
I'll also note here to put 8mph in a regular context, I used to see my instant economy drop to 4mpg in a Skoda Superb 1.8 turbo petrol when flooring it.
@@alexcox7204 BMR…. Dartford , Kent for major works and throttle actuators …Rebuild run by Jason from Gravesend. 👍🇬🇧
You mean M539 Restorations.
@@MIK23458 yes correct my error
Had one, 3yrs old 40k miles, full service etc and….. almost bankrupt me! Loved it but it hurt badly.
Clutch, throttle actuators, idle actuators, EDC suspension, some pump, sat nav unit and buckled wheels!? Plus gas, tyres, servicing etc and 1 litre of oil every 1000 miles.
= very sore bottom. 😂
Sold after 20k miles and 2 yrs.
Great car but get one that has had all that done, buy the best one and keep some cash handy, you’ll probably need it.
Translation..., unreliable money pit.
Well said :P
Yes, but just to say that any car has the potential to be ruinous if you're unlucky. Given three years old and 40k miles, I think it's fair to say you were very unlucky. Of course, some cars are more or less likely to be ruinous, and certainly at the age and price they are now, these are amongst the most likely to be so. Pre-purchase inspection, 2-3k for immediate rod bearings upgrade, and at least another 7k set aside for irregular maintenance in order to have a good chance of avoiding ruin. Buyers should consider a 15k example as a 25k spend. And of course need to be able to afford all of the other regular costs of running and ownership. IMO, it's certainly not an only or daily car proposition. And as it's a saloon, I question whether it's an ideal second+ car proposition, either. Moreover, you pay a big price just for that V10 sound. Maybe most people would be far better off renting an R8 V10 or Lambo for the weekend from time to time? Whatever you do, don't buy one to impress anyone but yourself! Cool car, with a big but! Or should that be, butt? ;P)
Funny how if anyone wrote this about a Maserati the whole internet would be flaming down the "rubbish Masers", but horrendously unreliable BMWs seem always to get a pass...
A liter of oil every 1000 miles? Where was it going? lol
Fantastic sounding engine that BMW V10.....but I'm simply not brave enough at all to own one 😂
I contemplated buying a pre-owned one in 2012, but settled on a 2010 535i M-sport N54 powered with 6-speed manual to replace my aged E39 540i Sport. There were several reasons I passed on it, certainly reliability, though I was only looking for 6-speed manuals which eliminated SMG concerns. The other was fuel economy or more specifically fuel economy combined with the very small gas tank. Lastly, I live in Colorado at 5,000+ feet which zaps about 15% of power and so I figured that a software tuned N54 would be just as quick in real world as the oxygen starved V10 and for sure quicker when the revs are down low which is most of the time. Of course, I had to forgo that sonorous high revving V10 sound. The M-sport version of the 535i is underrated. I put 19" rims on it to give it a better stance, and it handles very sharply and rides great. It has the ARS dynamically adjusting anti-sway bar to really minimize body roll and with the factory M-sport kit it pretty much looks like an M5. Plus being a 2010, it was LCI with a much better and updated iDrive and interior. It has been a great car and I still have it having put over 100,000 of my own miles on it. I DIY'd most of the N54 issues and it has been very reliable overall. Still there are times, I wish I opted for the more expensive at the time E60 M5 to have a proper M-car. One thing I agree with is that the F10 generation was very numb compared to the E60s.
I owned this very same car in 2022 to 2023 sold it for 15750 @77k miles my biggest regret😢 I can see the interiors been changed to wood and the idrive has been upgraded, glad to see it’s being taken care of.❤
I ran of these for a good 3 years. Did 50k in it including multiple track days! Loved it and would have another. Just make sure you do the bits they need before they fail such as rod bearings - I hated the active seats too, but they are easy to turn off, just press the button!!
This is my wild card for my next dadcar (spoiler alert!) 😅 nice to see you agree with me though Jack! What a magnificent car for the money 🥹
Just make sure you have 10k set aside for irregular maintenance.
And do the rod bearings upgrade immediately if not done already.
Bought one last year, what a car. Soooo misunderstood, yes sore on juice, but if maintained it won’t let you down.
super: LOL. Some of use do not believe replacing rod bearings is a "consumable." No thank you. Will keep my E 39. A truly useful, reliable car.
@@stephencurry8552 apart from the sills rusting :) i had an alpina b10 v8 , great car but man they rust
@@repairitdontreplaceit Where I live there is no rusting process. As such, I cannot relate.
You only had it a year.
@@stephencurry8552 its a race built engine, not a toyota camry. I have an E39 m5, would take the E60 every time, the E39 is far from trouble free too. Timing chain guides and oil leaks were the main issues on mine.
I’ve told this before but I had a M5 E60, did 100k+ miles in it of which the last few years of ownership, I had Evolve tune which raised the rev limiter to 8600 rpm. I drove it like I stole it, and when selling it, it was still on its original clutch. It never skipped a beat, all I did was regular maintenance and change rear tires. Best car ever!
You are a very lucky person. I can only but empathise with the person that bought your M5.
*waits patiently for the internet to gaslight your experience*
@@georgebettiol8338 Yes, because many other owners aren't claiming the same level of reliability.
Many people aren't maintaining correctly their cars also, thinking the reliability of german cars, is still as good as before, so they're making massacres of it.
So many people aren't even aware, of simple things, such as depending on the way you're driving it, the oil changes should be done more early, to prevent high revving engines to damage faster.
@@jingorooroad2559 Since the early to mid 2000s, BMW and the other German brands have been on a steady downward slide in quality - with particular focus on the short lived very poor quality (under-bonnet) plastics and rubbers. It was the period when the 'bean counters' took absolute control over the engineers. How sad.
@@georgebettiol8338reliability is up though
Great review Jack and glad you liked the car, was considering offering you mine to review, a Sept 05 model without the active bolsters but no need now!!
I keep meaning to take it for a run along your test route but havent quite got there yet.
Had mine now for 2 years and love it to bits, you do need to keep on top of the maintenance though, as you said. Keep up the great work on the channel.
I am all for the E39 M5 around the year 2000 is the best looking Beemers ever made and I love them.
Have a silverstone metallic, owned it for the past 8 years and its is quite reliable. I had to change the throttle actuators, the smg pump, fuel filter and currently the infotainment screen died. Otherwise no issues and use it as a daily driver and drive it across Canada.
By the way you can turn off the seat side bolsters.
Oh and no rod bearing issues, just change oil every 3-5k.
There is nothing like this especially for the money. It is an amazing car.
A £65K car has high running costs expect it to be the same 18 years later the problem is they become more affordable but the owners don't look after them properly and more than likely rag its tits off from the push of the button.
Great car.
Jack, this is a car on my list of wants. We forget that the price of 2nd hand cars goes down, but spare parts do not go down. I have driven one of these and they are fast, powerful and the sound is unique.
OMG! Who would have thought that a 200mph v10 supercar would need more maintenance than your average Honda civic! Only an idiot would be shocked!
I know right? How dare these not be run for 3p a week!
That's why Lexus was invented.
@@TheM5Dog 😂 exactly! I liked at the end when comparing the running costs to other Supercars and he found the costs pretty good. Imagine comparing the long term costs to something like one of the modern Audis, OMG the horror!
Exactly.
Great review. I’ve always fancied an M6 of this generation, they don’t get much love, so a little cheaper get into and dynamically more able!
I know someone who had one of these things. He wisely leased it and supplied the market with yet another used BMW.
The problem with these cars is owners, most have no brain and push when the engine is cold every morning. It is not normal that many new M5 even come for engine change or overhaul at 750km done in my country. Owners must drive them like idiots...
Same with most E90/E92 owners, scream them from cold and wonder why they break.
Sadly, owners pushing high performance cars from cold is all too common, and along with long intervals between oil changes is IMO the cause of most problems as they age. There's also the bad habit of warming them from cold by letting them idle for ages, which is the cause of most bore scroing issues on older 911s, but also affects other Porsches.
You could say the same for all beemers really, great cars with mostly shit owners.
@@solebrother4533 Oooooo Merc owner entered the chat 🤣
@@simonhanlon7518 nah most merc owners are idiots too😂I'm ex motor trade so I'm just going on experience not hating, I'm BMW-curious though which is why I'm here😂
I love the fact that people are scared to death of the E60 M5, keeps the prices down. The secret isn't out that they are no more unreliable that any other BMW of that era 🤫. By the way, I've thoroughly enjoyed mine for the last 5 years with zero issues. I have done plenty of preventative maintenance, but no issues. This car checks all the boxes for me. No other like it.
Fuel injectors also fail occasionally and they do usually stick open at high RPM causing damage to the piston and bore which in most cases is an engine write-off.
God I wish I owned one. Last of an era of naturally aspirated mega engines. There is nothing I dislike about the e60 M5
Sarcasm?
Drive one and you'll find a world of disappointment
@@donalmilmo-penny3085One of the best driving and exciting to drive cars of all time...disappointing only if you've bought a lemon/no money after buying it 😅
Have you replaced the starter on one?
@@donalmilmo-penny3085what??? They are fantastic to drive. Expensive to maintain though.
It is hilarious how the definition of "consumable" has changed. Years ago radiators, water-pumps et cetera were metal. Durable. Even rebuildable. There is a segment that gets a kick out of paying expensive bills in order to maintain a car. Some place reliability over an ability to go rapidly. After all, where are you going to go 180? And no, having to replace rod-bearings is not, never will be a consumable.
Plastic cooling parts aren't ideal, however BMWs run very hot to try to improve the theoretical thermal efficiency (they even have an electronic thermostat to run even hotter on light load highway cruising to gain a fraction of percent of efficiency). So a BMW M3 running at 100-105 deg C coolant temp is partly why the cooling system plastics don't last as long as a Lexus IS-F running at 82 deg C coolant temp (aside from the Lexus also using higher quality plastics). Like a lot of things on modern German cars, it's engineering theory and overcomplexity overruling common sense. I.e., "because we can" overrules "if we should" for the engineers.
@@TassieLorenzo Well, in a way but only from the used buyers perspective. From the first owner, the one who buys the car after all, its just upsides. Suffice to say, most manufacturers care very little for used car customers.
@@TassieLorenzo As the owner of many cars. And my own mechanic, I am well aware of what you posted. You should post that as your own post as I am well aware of what is happening. Which is obvious if you read what I posted.
@@stephencurry8552 I have owned/own 4 BMWs - E46, E39, E60 and E90. I just did the water pump and thermostat on the E90 N55 and it was a bear - took me 10+ hours over a couple of days. If you are going to put a part in a nearly impossible place to reach/service, you should at least make it reliable. But they did not. I do most of my own repairs and while BMW issues are both real and exaggerated, I can't help but think that more recently (last few generations) BMW only cares about making the car last long enough for the original (usually not car enthusiast) owner who more than likely leases the car. Then as mentioned, second owner be damned.
@@alangil40 I cannot relate. I purchase cars, and keep them. Thereof, I have no understanding of second owner.
I owned 2 of these, an early 55 plate and then a later car.
However I bought from BMW so had the benefit of the BMW AUC warranty, I wouldn’t have risked running one without it.
I agree about the seats, fun for 5 minutes and then never switched them on again.
The biggest issue I found was the small fuel tank which compromised range somewhat.
You can get them with all work done these days
I was a BMW technician during the awful Bangel design era. The N62 and S85 engines, SMG transmissions, energy diagnosis problems, water leaks and overall rubbish build quality kept me at work for 50+ hours a week for years until I'd had enough. I went to the aftermarket and stayed busy on these piles of crap for several years after until i went back to vintage Porsches, where i started.
You could not pay me to own an E60 M5.
Very solid advice, thanks for your post.
What about the E60 550i?
Agree. The E60 era was the genesis of the poor quality BMW - very sad.
I hope the victim blaming fanboys on here are reading this. These things are piles of crap no matter how much you "maintain" them.
@@Suprahamptonthe v8 in these e60 cars is also a maintenance heave engine.
great review jack , glad you liked her :) sorry bout the side bolsters though
I had one in black. I was smart to get an extended warranty as the smg clutch went twice during 3 years ownership. It looked badass, the engine was special. Bespoke for the model. After that they put the turbo v8 in lots of things, even the suv. To be honest the car felt heavy and the suspension unsophisticated. The adaptive air suspension was never in the right setting, in any setting on any surface at any speed. Look how much he is being bounced around. I had a Panamera turbo after this and the chassis just seemed more supple. You rode between the wheels rather than on top of them.
Just bought one today 🎉on collecting cars super excited estate version!
The same era Audi rs6 also had a v10
M5 E60 is legendary.
I had one, it was an ex demo with 2k miles when I bought it, fully loaded, even TV. I kept it for 6 years and did 145,000 miles. Apart from a few software hiccups that brought up warning lights that tuned out to be nothing after being reset it never let me down. I only ever drove in manual mode because in auto it was horrible and the only running costs were annual servicing and a lot of petrol!
Interesting so no major issues just general maintenance
I wonder if some people here commenting about having to have „deep pockets“ are aware that buying a rather decently specked hatchback will cost you 40k plus easily these days. Opposite to most of the other supercars with this sort of engine and power are hardly seeing the light of day, you can actually daily this.
Great cars and loved the E60 M5 after seeing Jeremy Clarkson review one back in 2005.I recently bought a manual E92 M3 which is powered by a 4 litre V8 closely related to the V10 in the E60 M5 and shares its high revving character. Loving it so far.
I loved the active side bolsters in my M5 Touring, the V10 was immaculate, the electrics / clutch & gearbox not so much. 10000 miles, £19k in warranty & repair work, 11.8mpg but when it was good it was great!
So you’re saying it did more smiles to the gallon
Clearly a cherished example.under 80k at it's last MOT. The road tax is a bit shocking at £735, it would have been half that if it had originally been registered one month earlier!
Thank you for this video. I wondered why the car sounded like a Formula One racer! BMW will always have staying power. There is a reason why Holden sedans are not around anymore but BMW sedans are.
I had one also: loved the interior. Hated the herky jerky gearbox. Only good late at night on the 101 freeway. But always got parked in front of the club 😂
Must’ve been a while ago, ‘cause the 101 has way too many cars at anytime now
Sweet car though
I had one from 2010 until 2022. Daily until 2016. I absolutely loved it. Nothing else quite like it. Gearbox is fine if you treat it like a manual and change manually, lifting your foot for the change.
That’s an obviously loved example. Not a single MOT advisory since 2010. I’d love one, but as a Honda owner, I think the reputation for unreliability would make for a short relationship!
I'm 72 years old. I've owned lots and lots of cars including BMW's, Mercs, Porsche, VAG.... I've owned a 2006 Yaris with 100,000 + miles on it for the last 3 years. No squeaks or rattles, has never let me down. Thinking to the future, I see little likelihood of going much beyond Toyota, Honda or Mazda. Basic requirement of owning a car is to feel reasonably confident that the thing will start, and get you from A to B.
@@andrewpreston4127were the BMWs good when well maintained?
@@madhunter6420 First one, a brand new E30 325i that I collected from the factory in Munick, and drove back to the UK. A few weeks later, I went out one morning to find that the rear gas shock absorbers had collapsed. 5 or so years later I bought a s/h 3 year old 535i Sport. Never had any problems, apart from finding it rather soulless. Fast and powerful isn't everything. The engine in the 325i was a lovely thing, the rest of the car quite ordinary. And all the stories about head gasket failures, and diesels that ate their cam chains in later BMW's have put me off completely. These weren't majorly problems of poor maintenance, but poor design and ludicrously long recommended service intervals.
In short, if you buy an ageing luxury/performance car be prepared to have to dig quite deep into your pocket. It may not happen but it's more likely then not, even on a well made product things aren't going to last forever. If you can't keep several thousand handy for this almost inevitable occurrence then in my opinion you really need to stay away from this type of thing because it's not just the cost, it's finding garages that will do a decent job! I've had something similar to this before but personally I now just go to shows, admire the examples on display, maybe chat with the owners, have a bite to eat and go home, happy and content with a nice day out. Don't get me wrong, if you've the necessary skills, tools and workshop space then it might be a different matter, I'm just saying heads up.
The unit you have a is a LCI from 2010 with the CIC unit instead of the CCC, I'd love to have one like this
The US buyers were so lucky they could buy a 6speed manual 🎉
Not really. I've driven a manual one. The SMG is absolutely fine.
a fellow mechanic went self-employed, worked really hard, did really well, + after 3yrs bought an M5. he sold it after 7 months, it was always clapping out, he spent a fortune on your listed parts, but still kept dying out in the middle of the road. [never mind the 11MPG it did]
the next owner was a bmw head technician, who eventually traced the fault to a tiny water leak on the rear window getting into a fuel pump controller, an unobtainable part, £1k second hand !
definitely a car to borrow, not to buy...
fuel pump controler from bmw new is £290 !
next time i see him i'll tell him, he will be chuffed...
[this happened about 7-8 yrs ago]@@repairitdontreplaceit
@@repairitdontreplaceitexactly! The ekp module is inexpensive. Even cheaper from LLLParts, too.
It sounds like you were a shit mechanic lol
I will never be interested because of the useless gearbox. That they only sold it with an auto in most of the world, but did it as a manual in usa (where nobody drives manual) is absolutely criminal. How to ruin a car 101
If it’s the same as the smg on the e46 m3 I preferred it to the manual and it was more exciting then the later DCT
@@2702simmo "If it’s the same as the smg on the e46 m3 I preferred it to the manual"
now thats an opinion you dont see every day
Car was designed as SMG only, as were lot of other high perf. cars of the time. It was an easy decision for BMW to make, so even if you dont agree with it, it certainly wasnt in any way unexpected or unique. So I dont know if I can agree with the "ruin 101" etc when it was a foregone conclusion, more or less.
You, like 99% of people with this opinion a) never owned one, b) never even driven one, c) never learned to drive one properly or a combo of some/all of the above.
Like you, I dislike auto transmissions in such 'road vehicles' and the DCT is no exception - after all I don't compete in 24 hour races where the trans would undergo 10,000 gear changes.
I was amazed with the release of the manual version of the M5 E60 for the US market. This goes some way to explaining why many US Ferrari 360, 430 and 599 owners are queing up at EAG USA to convert their auto equipped Ferraris to manual - refer to czcams.com/video/TOopMD1n2pE/video.html. It's astonishing that the aforesaid is occuring in the land of the automatic transmission - where the majority of drivers don't know how to operate a manaul trans car.
You’ve got to be prepared for big bills on old cars. I run an 02 911 Turbo as a daily.
This car is only a money pit if you have no money or skill to maintain it properly. Pick one. Drive the miles and do the maintenance.
14 years and 193,000 smiles of track days, kid hauling, and getting groceries in my 6 speed Dinan S2 e60 m5. Other cars have come and gone, but this one is a keeper. Among many things, my s85 paired with an Einhorn Industires full titanium exhaust never gets old.
These cars are only as good as the previous owners. Too many of these cars were bought by ballers on beer budgets, unwilling to do the maintenance. This includes all the “owners” that rented/leased these cars new from BMW Financial. We all know from Jeremy Clarkson that the fastest car in the world is a rental! When was the last time you treated a rental/hire car with care? Cold revs and burn outs for “likes”, you bet!
Combined with BMW’s “free maintenance” on their rental fleet, many 1st owners stuck to the ridiculous 15,000 mile oil intervals. At the time the prevailing attitude was, why should I come out of pocket for an oil change at 5,000 miles, when BMW will pay for it at 15,000? And if the engine blows, who cares as it will be covered under warranty. And if it doesn’t blow who cares, it will be returned at the end of the lease/rental period.
Only a handful of enthusiasts bought these cars new, in period. Only now, they are falling into more enthusiasts hands. Pick any other 6speed high revving v10 from Porsche/VAG/LFA, how many have hit 100,000/200,00 miles? What were the costs for maintenance? Garage queens don’t count, because they never move!
Lovely car, it's the small wheels on the standard non M car that makes this generation of 5 series look odd. This, however, is very good looking. Enjoyed the video Jack.
You did well delivering your content at that speed...
Had mine 4yrs with no major issues, couple issues I had was some of heater buttons cracking an falling off and ABS light warning coming on which was fixed with ABS speed sensor
I own a 2008 M5 and 2013 CLS63 AMG. The biggest problem I have with them is to choose which one to drive when I go out
Which of those two have you found to be more reliable?
That's a great problem to have...
You've got to go in with your eyes open and reasonably deep pockets (relative to the purchase costs) to run all these sorts of cars. But, if you do, and can, what special drives they deliver. And, compare the costs with 'buying' (i.e. mostly renting) a new modern performance car!
Awesome video Jack... do u miss the ferrari 308 ?
As the owner of an SMG M3 owner, I discovered the SMG pump does not fail, the BMW Pentosin fluid is not work properly. I use Burkhart. No more problems!
m3 is smg 2 m5 is smg 3
It's always struck me as odd how reliability and maintenance expectations are inversely proportional to the purchase price of the car.
I think the Toyota Century V12 is pretty good on maintenance costs compared to a comparable V12 Jaguar XJ or BMW 7 Series, however the Toyota is a 25 year old car now though so there will be age related expenses.
I loved my e60 540 it was lovely, my favourite car, now have a 760Li which is also brilliant.
I guess the big end bearings are the equivalent of Porsche & the IMS problem - inexcusable for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of German engineering!
Its not even the only BMW engine that suffers from the same fault. The S54 is another one.
@@paulcharlton4788 It's most of the naturally aspirated M engines. It's something to do with how they are designed or made -- very odd.
OE bearings last about 80.000KM and aftermarket bearings solve the problem entirely. Yes it's not very nice, but it's not a huge problem.
@@justincase9471 maybe a £3k repair is small beer to a typical owner.....I recall when Honda motorcycles had a bad rep for chocolate cam lobes from just one model, that resulted in loss of face, millions of yen in dealer funded repairs & Honda having to over-engineer bikes ever since! I doubt bmw or porsche would ever accept failure as their fault!
@@SteeeveO I'm sorry, I assume that you can replace the bearings yourself as this is the kind of used car that you need to be able to maintain yourself. Bringing a car like this to the garage is a guarantee for high bills.
For all the E60 M5 owners, you are heroes. Video summation: If you're expecting to service a supercar, then yeah it is affordable to run. Not a very deep analysis on this video.
You might want to share notes with fellow youtuber Sreten (M539) who deep-dived into a full rebuild of one of these... not a car for a technical novice, or for anyone on a shoestring budget.
I dunno. It represents to me (as i said in another reply to a bmw video), where BMW sold their soul. Merc did the same. Totally get the performance (i had an m3), but the reliability and the electrical issues would stop me from ever owning one. Great review. Absolutely look forward to these when i see a new one come along. I grab a coffee and enjoy. Thanks again Jack
Great video about an interesting car far beyond my means.
PS: As summer is coming, I do hope you will refrain from wearing again shorts in your videos. :)
I haveca Mazda BM 3..high performance. Naturally aspirated 120hp with compression engine. You can fearure if u like.
I bought one in Silverstone, M6 wheels, 06 plate, fully loaded, active seats, full merino interior, was previously owned by a prem footballer, was a missile, de limited, but at 58k miles, got the kick in the arse gearbox issue, which genuinely feels like you’ve been run up the arse, imhad it fixed and traded it for an F80 M3. But the M5 was the final quality finished M car, the more recent ones have inferior carpets and general interior…..
This is one of the few BMW cars I like, (and if I could afford one). I run a V twin Moto Guzzi (850cc) which works out around 50-60mph, times by whatever the V10 lump the Beemer is not bad at around 15 mph, I was expecting you to say a wee bit less! I had a rebuilt race spec F1 750cc Suzuki in the 1980's which had 4.3 gallons (UK) 19 ltr tank which could not do two laps of the Isle of Man TT Circuit (78 miles) so still a bit more frugal than the Suzuki!
Had one of these back in the day, great car but very fragile & very expensive to look after. Always worried when driving it as they had big issues.
I am happy stick with BMW E39.
I might have heard it wrong but I thought he said this was the first and last V10 M car.I think the 2010 M6 had a V10.
M5 came out in 2004, M6 doors have the same engine but came out later. This also beat the Audi RS6 out. They stopped making them in 2010i think
BMW's of this era were very much cutting edge and so there are quite a few engines with significant, even major, flaws but the problem is actually maintenance and people's willingness or ability to care for the cars the way they needed to be; credit was so easy to get so people could buy these cars but couldn't afford to look after them and they then acquired this reputation for being lemons so end up cheap second-hand buys but still have high-end running costs and servicing demands.
I've seen advice from owners of the M5/M6 saying to budget for rod-end bearing upgrades as part of the purchase unless you have prove it's been done, and after that it's just a case of giving them the proper TLC they need.
I think the V10 M5 and M6 are absolute future classics though, BMW pulled that engine seemingly out of no where and were just jaw-dropping things.
I eventually swapped the E60 M5 to the V10 RS6 and it was a shock how much worse maintenance costs are but my god I'm 4 years in and now stage 3 and well over 40k into it but wouldn't change a thing.
As long as the owner has deep enough pockets and doesn't mind digging deep into them it's all good. Just enjoy.
Still love it Jack. Fantastic job as always.
Brilliant review, thanks Jack 👍👍
That’s a secondhand car for Sreten only really from M539 who can get at it like a heart surgeon. I reckon the Bangle design puts the current range to shame quite honestly. I had the 2.5 e60 and it was lovely to drive but surprising that they cut the corners on interior quality I found. Still those heady beamer days are gone now with grille gate aplomb 😮
Given the potential costs of maintenance, I think I'd personally choose a Maserati Quattroporte V with ZF over one of these, as IMO it's more special looking and a nicer place to sit, and likely to cost less to own.
Even so, you can get a decent E60 M5 for 15-20k, some with rod end bearings already done along with other expensive maintenance items. Nonetheless, if you bought a car in good overall cond. for say 15k, did the rod end bearings upgrade straight away, and set 7k aside for irregular maintenance, for a total of 25k you do get a lot of car for the money.
However, if you can't afford a total outlay of 25k and a best case scenario of 15mpg average, the simple answer to the question of, should you buy one, is a big, no.
The thing is though, when new you could potentially make the case for having one of these as your daily. However, given the age of these cars now, I'd ask the question whether you want a second+ car to be a saloon, otherwise you can get an M6 coupe or convertible for the money, just as you could get a Maserati GranTurismo or GranCabrio instead of my QP alternative.
Who would choose to daily drive an E60 M5 in 2024 and beyond? If such a car is all you can afford, you would be ill-advised to choose such a car. And if you have plenty of money, I can't see you choosing to daily such a car.
i walk past a burnt out a Maserati Quattroporte V every morning to work !
An exciting car but because of the maintenance costs most people settle for driving an appliance.
Sadly, many people spend more driving an appliance.
Just get one with the rod bearings already changed if not haggle
It's definitely one of those special intriguing cars that need to be maintained religiously, and you need the free cash available for eventual mechanical trouble. Then just enjoy that charismatic engine.
Ahhh I nearly got one of these, but my mechanic saved me. He had a customer with one of these who kept smacking the chin into those parking berms you see in the US. Apparently there is an oil cooler mounted in a precarious place down low in the front? Anyway he said he felt it was his duty to warn me about the car as while he'd love to take money to keep it going, he felt it would have been too much for my financial capabilities.
I know someone who owns a M5 Touring from new. It's passt 200,000 km and is well maintained at BMW. He once said he spent twice the prize of the car for maintenance in the past 15 years. This includes what he called "preventive maintenance" on the drivetrain at 150,000, i.E. a total rebuild where they found a few horses.
It is read, has a 530d badge and a tow hook!
absolutely ridiculous, but what a legend.
Haha, cool fake news from the exaust tips, no black fumes under hard accelaration, but a glorious unexpected symphony of V10.
*This was a good show!* *Smiles.*
I bought a Lexus GS-F after looking at these V10s for a while, best decision ever.
Vaporise the fuel before going into the engine and improve the mpg by 3 to 4 times also decrease emissions dramatically!
Pretty sure you can turn off the active bolsters in the idrive somewhere.
There was a time when I really wanted one but that’s passed now thankfully :) I don’t think they’ve aged that well
E61 with a manual swap is my ultimate dream car. I'd settle for a saloon if I had to...
One of my friends had one. It's an amazing machine. I agree with your conclusion, Jack. It needs a significant amount of money to keep it going, but what do you expect? It's not that bad considering what this car is delivering.
Looks very quick
Bangle said we'd come to love them eventually - and he was right, I wasn't keen at the time but looks great to my eyes now :)
Because he knew that the modern cars will be even uglier
A glardo smg only do about 10k miles per clutch
You can toggle the active side bolsters off quite easily. They’re not for everyone.
Tried a few of these, while they drive well its the upkeep of them I bought A Vauxhall vxr8 instead has a better engine{ bit less power sounds better much easier and cheaper to fix and easy to tune}, slower autobox but again no silly smg or electrics to go wrong and to be honest a lot more fun to drive.Though vxr8,s are starting to get above these in price and supercharged ones are even more again.
Fantastic report!
I bought my E39 M5 from a guy that bought an E60 M5. He said it was really fast but not an every day car like the E39 was. He felt it wasn't flexible enough with torque and just felt rough all the time. A year later after a lot of maintenance on the E60 he called me asking if he could buy his E39 back... I still have the E39 today, over 13 years on. But, having been in an E60 at full chat, it is hands down a far more visceral and special experience than the E39. The E39 is a more relaxed car that is still plenty fast enough and a bit better on fuel.
However, a touring E60 M5... yes please. But, sensible me says 535d touring is a wiser choice.
I'd consider one with a manual gearbox, but not one with that horrendous SMG auto gearbox
I see a lot of instant hate for this car and I'm surprised. I love mine to bits, she's a premadonna sure but when it's on form nothing touches it for me. The injectors can fail and should also be on the maintenance list at around 75k miles i think. This is a common cause of the rod bearing issues frequently used to berate this engine. I guess if you want a shopping cart the 520d is your car, if you want to drive a 200mph road monster and take your mates or family with you then this car will make you happy. The gearbox has it's flaws but only around town and in auto. Find an open piece of road and you're all good, that engine is magnificent and the box will change hard enough to make you think a lorry has hit you from behind. I took mine to Scotland with some mates and ragged it around and over 2300 miles i got 21mpg. It was also comfortable enough to drive it 12 hours to get there without needing surgery. It's a continent crusher.
agreed 100%
Pull the fuse for the active bolsters...mine has an evolve intake and a Hartge remap and puts out 570BHP,one of the quickest on the road
70bhp with an intake and a map? Where was it dyno'd?
If you own one you should have noticed there is a switch on the dashboard to turn it off.
Comfort program: one LED
Normal program: two LEDs
Sport program: three LEDs
To switch off: press button longer