PZ Myers argues embryology with Islamists
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- This conversation was in progress for at least 10 minutes before I pulled out my camera, but here are the final 15 minutes before we all went back inside to watch the amazing Maryam Namazie, who told one of these Islamists to "sit down and shut up because I'm not finished speaking."
In this conversation, the Muslim men are arguing that the Qu'ran contains accurate scientific information that could only have been known via revelation. Note that at the beginning of the conversation, they do not know that PZ Myers is an embryologist.
CZcamsr AronRa jumps in near the middle of the video.
Here's the Islamic explanation of how embryos form (bones first, then flesh)
www.islam101.co...
Here's a substantial refutation to Professor Moore and comparison to Aristotle's explanation on embryo formation:
www.answering-i...
I love the spectacular flip-flop:
"The Koran says the bone forms first, and then the flesh forms on it, and that's what happens. The Koran is right!"
"Uhh, that's not what happens, they form simultaneously."
"The Koran says they form simultaneously, and that's what happens. The Koran is right!"
Yes, that was an incredible about face and yet, the amazing flexibility of meaning in so-called religious texts is, of course, never a problem for Theists. 🙄
No. It doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say if bones or flesh is first.
“We made lumps, then we made out of lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh…”
Al Mu’minun Verse 14.
@@sabr2252
Then We turned the sperm-drop into a clot, then We turned the clot into a fetus-lump, then We turned the fetus-lump into bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh; thereafter We developed it into another creature. So, glorious is Allah, the Best of the creators.
- Mufti Taqi Usmani
Thereafter We created the sperm-drop into a clot, (Or: embryo) then We created the clot into a chewed up morsel, then We created the chewed up morsel into bones, then We dressed the bones (in) flesh; thereafter We brought him into being as another creation. So Supremely Blessed be Allah, The Fairest of creators.
- Dr. Ghali
Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!
- Pickthall
Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
- Yusuf Ali
----------
"then We", "then We" - so yes, it does suggest it's use of this phrase can only be deemed to mean it's describing a sequential series of events.
Also, there's no way the Quran used a word for foetus or embryo which are much newer words, so I'm calling fabrication/BS on the insertion of those terms in one of the above translations.
But sure, pick your preferred translation and let your Cognitive Bias help you with the rest.
In any case, it's wrong anyway. Is a "clinging lump" or a "clot" a scientifically accurate description of any gestational stage?
No, it's nonsense. Plain and simple.
@@XiagraBalls Read the Arabic. Learn it first. Translations are approximate.
@@sabr2252 Well, doesn't the translation give you a problem? 3.6% of the world speak Arabic, but God sent a message down in C7 Arabia, gave it to an illiterate man and he didn't write anything down, because he couldn't read or write, but then his followers started to compile what they thought were words he said decades (or even centuries) after he died and it was only in C20 that you got a standardised printed version of the Quran, but you can only fully understand it if you speak Arabic (so only 3.6% of the world's population can fully understand the alleged message), even tho the early Quranic texts were largely written in rasm and not modern Arabic anyway. Great plan! 👍🏻 Foolproof! 🙄
"You're an embryologist?" "Yes."
...
"Sh*t."
VemundVR ...but don’t worry because even though what I’ve just said is wrong the Quran is still right.
Muslim logic since 612ad
@@kymmoore853 it’s not right
He is not an embryologist though, he is a biologist, idk why he would lie.
@@shahchowdhury387 "He is associate professor of biology at the University of Minnesota Morris (UMM) where he works in the field of developmental biology." >>> "Developmental biology is the study of the process by which animals and plants grow and develop." >>> "The main processes involved in the embryonic development of animals are: tissue patterning (via regional specification and patterned cell differentiation); tissue growth; and tissue morphogenesis." etc.
Maybe next time don't just read the first line on wikipedia and run with it.
Amazing how they don't know who they're talking to. When they realize he is an embryologist and he explains that the explanation they claim from the Qur'an is wrong, they turn it around and say "even so, the Qur'an is right" is just a typical faith argument. Interesting to see it captured so well on video!
czcams.com/video/zbD8DQjZH6s/video.html
He is misinterpreting the Quran
actually he's not a embryologist. He studies evolutionary development.
He and the quran are both wrong, as they said that bones develop first.
Bones do not develop first.
Real
@@johnmark6628Pz Meyers never said that, he said that’s what Aristotle claimed.
You gotta love it when they quote "authorities" when it suits them, then when an "authority" tells them they are wrong, all of a sudden that gets thrown out. What a bunch of intellectually dishonest people!
religious ppl like to do that all the time.
@@MrTournemire exactly
Precisely!
you didn't even give a single example you clown
Which “authority” tells that they’re wrong?
Every time I see one of those preachy Islamists argue, I can't help but notice how their insecurities shine through their blatant arrogance and booming, chatty voices. Pathetic.
Last year Hamza Tzortzis gave up science in the koran. He confessed this was due to THIS meeting with PZ Myers. He wrote "Regrettably, the scientific miracles narrative has become an intellectual embarrassment for Muslim apologists, including myself. A few years ago I took some activists to Ireland to engage with the audience and speakers at the World Atheist Convention. Throughout the convention we had a stall outside the venue and as a result positively engaged with hundreds of atheists, including the popular atheist academics Professor P. Z. Myers and Professor Richard Dawkins. During our impromptu conversation with Professor Myers we ended up talking about God’s existence and the Divine nature of the Qur’ān. The topic of embryology came up, and Professor Myers being an expert in the field challenged our narrative. He claimed that the Qur’ān did not predate modern scientific conclusions in the field. As a result of posting the video[8] of the engagement on-line we faced a huge intellectual backlash. We received innumerable amounts of emails by Muslims and non-Muslims. The Muslims were confused and had doubts, and the non-Muslims were bemused with the whole approach. Consequently, I decided to compile and write an extensive piece on the Qur’ān and embryology, with the intention to respond to popular and academic contentions.[9] During the process of writing I relied on students and scholars of Islamic thought to verify references and to provide feedback in areas where I had to rely on secondary and tertiary sources. Unfortunately they were not thorough and they seemed to have also relied on trusting other Muslim apologists. When the paper was published it was placed under a microscope by atheist activists.[10] Although they misrepresented some of the points, they raised some significant contentions. I have since removed the paper from my website. In retrospect if this never happened, I probably wouldn’t be writing this essay now...."
Never would have known this had you not shared. Thank you!
namzarf
You are welcome...it is not the sort of thing muslims are likely to spread around is it..
Hamza could have said all that waffle so much clearer with just two simple words, "I lied".
He loves to use the Occam's Razor analogy when it suits.
Hamza admits that he is wrong ! I couldn't believe it in my own eyes !
Robert Wilson Why ridicule someone who backs away from error. It is an action and a capability that most of us have difficulty cultivating and that, broadly, is worthy of respect. Why do you need to further humiliate someone who is making concessions?
7:08
- You're an embryologist?
- Yes.
- Oh wow.
One of the greater signs of ignorance is not knowing who you're talking to.
This embryologist is 20 times brighter than these clowns.
"thumma" means after.
it can't mean something that is happening with another simultaneously.
^
arabic speaker here, and hamza's friend lied multiple times during this debate.
after long time >ثم thumma
after short time > فـ fa
if you need Arabic lesson, I'm here, so myers didn't get deep information about Quran.
Husyn 7-J correct.
+Agnostic yes he did lie, oh yeah baby al-taqqyya (or whatever) they are NOT only allowed to lie to infidels for the cause of Allah (shazam ali baba shawarma) they are encouraged to do that. The good part is when Hamza gets schooled in the Magic Sandwich Show.
+Agnostic
False. It can mean 'moreover' as well.
Getting owned seems to be a regular experience for Hamza & his friends.
+john phelan
Great delusion.
Keep taking the tabs
vicachcoup Would you care to elaborate?
john phelan
Not really.
Your inane comment just warrants an inane response and nothing more.
vicachcoup In that case all I can say there's nobody better than your good self to deliver an inane response.Bravo.
john phelan
I think your last contribution just topped it. Thanks.
"Even if that is right the Koran is linguistically right." Awesome!
Awesome : "even if that is the case, the quran is right"
Man theyd even say : "even if the Bible is true, the quran is right"
Its so "lol"
Proves himself wrong.
"Well the Koran is still right!"
I would have left right there.
that’s because the word in Arabic has more than 2 meanings but Hamza changed his views regarding the scientific miracles see his video “there are no scientific miracles in the Quran”
that's call taqiyah.
@@sonedi80 i just explained why that’s not a lie
@@muslimwoolfy-winterequestr4344 Its lies just stop
@@eternal_riftz8801 stop? I am explaining why it’s not really a lie why do you ignore what I have to say?
As an ex Muslim I should say this is a debate between science and Islamic stupidity
thanks that means there is Islamic intelligence
@@strawred7664 Muslims are smart. Religions, all of them, are designed to make people stupid
@@strawred7664 that's an oxymoron
@@strawred7664 No it doesn't mean that at all. Islamic stupidity just refers to a specific form of stupidity. There are many forms of stupidity as well (Christianity, Judaism, flat earth etc.).
@@weirjwerijrweurhuewhr588 Your statement should also be a form of stupidity in that way
I have never seen someone work as hard as Hamza justify bullshit
oooooh...you would be surprised :)))
it is not bullshit this video explains the verse better czcams.com/video/Wau-mEQCF8I/video.html
LOL@ _You're an embryologist?_ _Yes_ ....and then you hear the air-brakes go on in his head LOL I love it.
+Someonez Mom It was a fantastic moment, and Hamza is not one who is normally ever flustered, as he just keep going on and on.
@@jarlaxledaerthe4045 PZ Meyer just said he was an embryologist on camera when the whole world knows he isn't...
@@jarlaxledaerthe4045 I have, it says evolutionary developmental biologist and it's not the same as embryologist.... Please Google yourself before asking others too... PZ Meyer even laughed and so did others behind him when he said yes to being an embryologist...
@@jarlaxledaerthe4045 do you care that any one can do a 4 second Google search to prove that you are an idiot?
@@jarlaxledaerthe4045 dear madam, just because we biotechnologists study 1 course of social sciences in our 4 year program does not make us social scientists... Just because we study 2 courses of immunology doesn't make us immunologists... Of course an evolutionary developmental biologist also studies some courses of embryology, without that information how can he be termed as an expert at development and evolution of species... However that does not make him an EMBRYOLOGIST.... I don't know where you are getting your facts from... To be called an EMBRYOLOGIST your degree major and focus needs to be embryology, where as the degree major of an Evo devo is evolution, genetics, ecology and yes of course embryonic development as well (but a part, not the main focus) we did a lot of courses of genetics when I was in my biotech program, but I don't and can't refer to myself in public as a geneticist... So much for intellectual integrity....
I love the fact they stress it forms in the order they said, then just after PZ tells them it's simultaneously they go "OH THAT'S what the Qur'an really means!"
The title of the video should be: muslims get humiliated by mr PZ Myers
Humiliated how?
@@Bunyourdesires Muslims don't get humiliated
czcams.com/video/HDMR4MMtDs0/video.html
@@Bunyourdesires By being forced to dissimulate, change the meaning of words, dissemble, virtually say that black is white and then quote a long-discredited embryologist in desperate defence of their (losing) position. And then they find out that he is a Professor of Embryology. Oops.
Example: Hamza - the Quran says that the bones form first and then the flesh. PZ - wrong, they form simultaneously. Hamza - exactly, just what the Quran actually says.
Cant we aim to learn from each other instead of aiming for humiliation what do we gain from that my friend tell me?
czcams.com/video/Wau-mEQCF8I/video.html this video explains the verse in more detail.
I am a Muslim, actually islam has many problems is scince and morality, i started leaving islam when i read its criminals
You need to re-educate yourself on islam. Many verses in the Quran are nuanced and require significant research. Islam is the truth
@@humzaqureshi1391 bnu qureeza
@@nestaali7471 Banu Qurayza? Who committed treason and were put to be killed according to their own scriptures? A Rabbi is who passed the ruling, not the Muslims.
What else do you have a misunderstanding with?
@@IammramWhat about the Mamalik?or the whole war that started betwwen kholafaa,or about the fact the otman burned all the copies of quraan except his?
@@rimondleonard4108 No idea what you're talking about.
Mamalik? War started between who?
Otman burned all copies? You mean Uthman?
PZ wins this one without ever breaking sweat.
@Mr.V no
@@user-mp5jo6yn6o unfortunately ........yes
True. They are like naughty puppies pretending to be alpha dogs.
Hahahahaha what a joke ! I am Arabic and I speak perfectly this language and Thumma means " then" it can never mean " at the same time" means the surah is wrong
Thanks for confirming it. These guys lie so much that they seem to believe their own lies
This Quran still fails to list the female egg, which is the equal most important part. And Muslims cannot play loose with translation, the is a simple word for egg in Arabic
ex-Muslim here
These guys are trying to conceal the fact that Mohammad's physician whose name's Al-Harith ibn Kaladah travelled to Gondēshāpūr, the intellectual centre of the Sassanid Empire where there was a medical center and a library.
Shāpur's (the founder of Gundishapur) wife, the daughter of Aurelian, lived in the capital with him. She brought with her two Greek physicians who settled in the city and taught Hippocratic medicine. (Check wiki)
That's were the Quran got it's miracles from
Damn being an atheist in a Muslim country, good look man
Given that, you need to find the ancient and archaic resources for hundreds of scientific issues mentioned in Quran while most of scientific miracles of Quran were never known to people of a century a go. For example the expansion of universe, mountain root, the motion of sun, the ozon layer, and many others..... Which you might find them by a simple search in miracles of Quran
@@DHLShow no man. They are all known and some are wrong. And you know if just one is right its not a miracle just chance.
For exemple the one for the mountain is wrong. The one for the embryon is wrong. The one about universe in fact talk about the sky and if it talks about universe is first not only claim by Quran but also Bible and Christian and two let's imagine it written it still one it a lot that are wrong.
@@DHLShow plus Quran doesn't talk about the egg of the women.
@@youtubeaccount9378
I think I need to listen to expertise. The great expert in embryology Professor Keith L Moore says Quran is God words according to the embryo stages....
I don't know. But thing I know that expertise are the ones to listen to.
All the best.
I have nothing to pursue you. You might do a research...
“Even if you’re right, the quran is still true” Confirmation Bias in live action there, ladies and gents.
Really, Even if your right the quran is still true!!!! Lol
From now on, when people claim that atheists like PZ are rude or aggressive, I'll direct them to this video. His patience appears to be almost limitless.
Wow, I love how Aron tied the guy in knots right at the end. The mental contortions that the guy had to put himself through was quite entertaining.
These two debated in my college in Ireland. Needless to say it was a painful experience
Thanks for uploading this, its nice to see them get what was coming to them ! ^_-
I admire Myers for tolerating this for so long...
Everytime i watch this beatdown by Dr. Myers i laugh. Rashid was asked " does the quran say bones are formed first then flesh". Myers said "are you sure thats what it says?" Rashid says " absolutely thats what it says". Then he finds out that Myers is actually an embroyologist and that the quran is wrong and then what does he do, immediately start lying!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Thuma does not mean simultaneously but "then" as in steps. This is so great to watch😂😂😂😂
This is still such a good video 10 years later. Muslims have been proven wrong on this subject several times, yet cling to their BS or reinterpret their Qur'an on the spot.
The Quran doesn’t get reinterpreted, you just don’t understand Arabic. An embryologist even more well credited than Myers admitted the Quran was right. This entire debate was filled with ignorant fallacies on the atheist end
@@humzaqureshi1391 nearly every embryologist would say the stages of an embryo, as described in the Qur'an, is wildly inaccurate. Think about it logically. It goes from a hanging clot, and at some point its given bones, ithaman, then it says "we clothed the bones with flesh", implying the bones formed without flesh. That's definitely not how it works. Flesh and cartilage form at the same time.
Secondly, one stage in Quranic embryology is the "alaqa" according to all dictionaries I've seen classical and new, it means "blood clot", but at no point in embryology is the embryo just a clot of blood. It's the egg of a woman, and the semen af a man combined, no blood until it's big enough it makes its own, but at that point its inside flesh, so it's no more a clot of blood than you or me.
Thirdly, it seems to me like the Qur'an thinks the simple act of putting semen in the womb is what's needed, there's no mention of the egg of the woman. Only semen is ever mentioned regarding child birth, never the egg. I would have thought an all mighty God would know about the egg of the female. No?
Quranic embryology was simply stolen from the limited Greek knowledge on embryology. Which was wrong on nearly everything. And so is the Qur'an.
@@humzaqureshi1391who's that?
czcams.com/video/gy8OOKH_TcM/video.htmlsi=Q-PJ8NmSlM0xrUcX
@@saintmay1952 I guess he means Keith L. Moore who in the 1980s was helping the Saudis to "reinterpret the many statements in the Qur’an, Sunnah, Kabbalah and Talmud referring to human reproduction". It's quite an embarrassment. Unsurprisingly, the guy is also a member of an Abrahamitic religion.
So gullibility is the only criteria.
+uncleanunicorn
Only if you believe the straw man argument made by AronRa
vicachcoup Well, it sure isn't good works that get you to heaven.
uncleanunicorn
you said
*Well, it sure isn't good works that get you to heaven. *
Fascinating!
You know what gets us to heaven?
Well please let us have your opinioin.
It would be nice to see what your understanding of Islam is like,
and whether it is as ridiculous as that of AronRa.
vicachcoup That's all I ever hear from Christians who talk about heaven. Believe, Believe, Believe. Because you can never be good enough - but anyone can just choose to accept supernatural claims.
uncleanunicorn
???
You obviously didn't read my post
and
you obviously can't answer my question.
I'm an Arab guy .....
"Thum=ثم" it doesn't mean simultaneously in any way ..... It mean "then ...or.... after a certain time"
He knew it, but he didn't or doesn't care, doesn't matter what the atheist says, the Muslim will deny and justify everything
God in quran said " we made bones then we put flesh on them" after myers said this is wrong flesh and bones made at the same time, that historian guy lied about "then" in arabic "ثم" and means : "after" and changed it with "with" in arabic "مع" so lying was never an argument , we are all knw religion is a world disney shit but lying is bad
you are right
كلامك صحيح
I'm an ex muslim and this is just the believer arrogance!
This scientific stuff in the Quran is nonsense. I have read the Quran cover-to-cover. Absurd.
"there were only 17 people who could read or write" FAIL....
The power of Interpretation.
I've heard of argument from ignorance, before. But being PROUD of being ignorant is a new angle.
At 4:00 Hamza begins explaining how the Quran has a "scope of interpretations". I take this to mean that you can make it say whatever you want it to say to fit the facts of the moment. That's tantamount to saying, "Yesterday we were right! Upon reflection we wrong, but here, watch me take my general statements and twist them to fit today's specific knowledge. We're right again!"
quran says expansion , moderm science says expansion, quran says smoke before the creation of the universe, modern science says cloud of smoke, quran says atom and smaller than the atom. modern science says atom can be split. no room for interpretation
@@ahmadmohammad2686 So what you are saying is that Hamza is full of shit?
Every language has a scope of interpretation. Study linguistics to understand that better. It's not something unique about Arabic. And granting a legitimate scope of interpretation (where ever it's Linguistically possible of course) is fine for ANY piece of literature. So NO it's not as simple as saying *yesterday we were wrong but now we are right*
@@ahmadmohammad2686 where does it say atom? Must have been a muslim who discovered the atom if it's already in the quraan.
@@TheMagnificentGman it doesn’t even talk about any of these it says sin less than the weight of a atom the atom was already a accepted theory and a fact plus the universe was no longer smoke because it was already formed way after earth and the earth was never created before the heavens
ثم doesn’t mean simultaneous 😂😂
Hamza: So you have proven me wrong, so I'll interrupt and move the goalposts until I think I'm right. And then you will prove me wrong, so I'll interrupt......
Painful to watch. PZ's patience is extremely admirable. It's fun to watch people destroy their own terrible arguments. If only they could see what they're doing.
I hate religion, and of the religions i find Islam the most offensive, but these gentlemen were a breath of fresh air. Although all religion is pointless and they are simply mistaken, they proposed their questions well and showed a thousand times more respect than any other Muslim video I've ever seen.
No you're just in hell! You're not a believer!
Did the guy said ثم mean the same time, wtf!!! It means AND, in Arabic he change a word sentence hahahahah
as usual they lie, why he don't speak about the 2 days to create the earth lol
It has 3 meaning
@Lul Lal totally agree and i comfirm what lul lal said .
But why exactly ahmed !?, why my name is always included in examples !! All eyes on me , damn .
Anyway , i let it go this time , just make me first 3ziz 3lya nkoun ana lawel :D ,
So it's ahmed touma alex . Ahmed then alex come later. That's it , that's how it should be .
Regards .
It means And after a while
use the context
Thanks for your comment.
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Wow calling the man ignorant when they think the Quran is from a creator god
Very ignorant unironically
This is wonderful, thanks for uploading it. I love how they insist they're right, especially when they're wrong, and assumptions are equivalent to faith.
the Islamist said "thumma" in Arabic mains "simultaneously" which is totally wrong because it means "then" those Islamists are liars and dribblers
oh yes, indeed they are. They will lie to you despite showing them evidence
"you're an embryologist? " -asks bearded fellow number one sardonically. "yes!" -says pz.... hahahahaha
I am an Arab and I speak this language fluently and
Thamma means “then” it can never mean “at the same time” it means the surah is wrong they are just desperate lol!😭😂
مشكلة
You don't know how misguided you are for saying that! You just can appreciate the holy Quran as anything! You really are the desperate one because you don't believe in the Quran or the Sunnah of the prophet Muhammad pbuh! And you're in hell too!
You're not going to believe in any sign God gives you! So you are destined to eternal punishing! That's how Allah Swt recompenses the kafir! Only if you believe you can be saved from Allah's punishment! This is a warning for you!
Thumma is used only
Twice in the verse which is the first word and after the word bones and flesh “ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا ٱلنُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا ٱلْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا ٱلْمُضْغَةَ عِظَٰمًا فَكَسَوْنَا ٱلْعِظَٰمَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَٰهُ خَلْقًا ءَاخَرَ ۚ فَتَبَارَكَ ٱللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ ٱلْخَٰلِقِينَ”
@😂😂😂😂😂😂😂ammymohamed8541
"You're an embryologist?"
"Yes!!"
Win :D
Technically, the one who taught Mohammed about embryology was Hareth Ibn Kalada who learned medicine in the Jundishapur academy. There were kept the text of Gallen, Aristote and several other great medicine men prior to the 5th century.
Source: "Histoire de la médecine arabe by Doctor Lucien Leclerc"
Is there a pdf version of the book?
@@Purple053 I've only found them in french. It's my mother tongue, though, so if you want me to translate a bunch of stuff, I can do that.
_There are two classes of men; intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence._ ~ Abu al Ma-arri
These guys are a perfect example of having a bias that they are just INTENT on confirming in any way possible. Screw facts. Screw evidence. They have their notion that they just desperately wish to cling to and they will fight every scrap of reality to hold onto it. Its just... so immature.
Nice anecdotal saying
"There are only 17 ppl who could read and write"
"What about the all the trades thats been happening"
"You could be ignorant can do trade."
The most stupidest response. You have to have accounts, make calculations, basically do lot of math, you have to label what commodities you export, read labels of what commodities have been imported.
But there were only 17 ppl in the arabia governing all the 1000s of tonnes of trade.
Yup. You're right without doubt.
How can one trade without knowing any metric? Just gamble around?
The law of the excluded middle strikes again.
Muslims are intentionally kept in a state of denial where they are repeatedly told how Muhammad is illiterate; which is certainly not what people who even islamist love and admire, Dr. Juan Cole, along with many other people think and believe.
Video should be titled "2 smiling Islamic idiots and a scientist".
Since when did science became a religion?
Religion dug it's own grave when the writer(moelester moe) tried to take a scientific approach to further it's credibility...didn't work out too well did it? I mean with all those scientific inaccuracies 😂😂 Played yourself
People always say evolution is a secular religion
See the full version of this encounter from the very beginning on our channel:
watch?v=3T5Pm7qLH50
The shock on their faces when he says he's an embryologist. They are so dishonest.
Because he lied that he was an embryologist
that is how religion and atheism should be discussed.
Islam is political..
Amazing that they're still quoting Keith Moore as an authority when he's been discredited for years. Desperate.
Science 😆
79.30 Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
and after that He spread out the earth: He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having been spread out;
11 years later they are still using the same argument. You guys don't realise how lucky you are that you don't know arabic. It is painful to listen to this ad infinitum explain it only to find the next guy in the queue waiting for his turn.
Buddy, the Muslims who knows Arabic will do mental gymnastics and interpret the verse in a way to fit the modern day discoveries. I've literally seen people change the word "heavens" with "universe" in 51:47. It's pretty clear what he was talking about. And majority of "miracles" talked about here are from Greek scientists.
@@fatburner5278 yup they are the Nadia Comăneci of linguistics
You guys are waaay more patient than me!
thumma and fa is always used in "sequence" as PZ said. It is used for the word "then" or "next" in Koran. So Rashid was lying outright to save their defeated argument. most all or all of Hamza paper on embryology has been refuted, so he never submitted it for peer review but instead asked people to donate 10,000 lb's to help him pay off the extensive research.
"Are you a product of capitalism...communism...are you a product of the system...socio-biological robot..."
He uses all those words w/ negative conotations, if only he had included "Islam" would he have seen how we see his religion XD
They are dishonest here. The word “thomma” literally means “then”, which indicates sequence. They said that themselves before and immediately they changed it to mean “with” after he tell them it’s nonsense. I’m an Arab and “thomma” means “then”.
The rest is just jumping from bullshit to bullshit. By the way Mohammed was a well informed man who traveled occasionally to the Levante as merchant before becoming a prophet. He also had access to Salman Alfarisi, a Persian man who was Zarathustrian and then a christian. There many other historical facts that have been buried to make this whole thing appear as it was a miracle coming out of the cave.
@@tinamarsh5365 agreed.
If one word means a thing that has two completely disjoint sematics that contradict each other, by the law of excluded middle, the words semantic is inconsistent and must be precized.
So bones form first, flesh second, and yet they form simultaneously... Must be a quantum superposition thingy.
Or...
A religion/reality interface paradox.
Lol how funny is that. When they said "Thuma" means simultaneously in Arabic, while we learned since grade 4 that it means After.
Had to dig this out and just realised that that is Adnan Hussain with Hamza, making the ridiculously convenient claim that the Quran is true because a word can both mean "simultaneously" and "afterwards". 🤦🏼♂
Aristotle's writings are remarkable for their breadth no less than their depth of inquiry. They examine fundamental questions of politics, rhetoric, ethics, and poetics as well as natural science, psychology, and metaphysics, among other topics. Aristotle's studies of animals are admired for their detailed and illuminating descriptions of more than 500 kinds of mammals, birds, fish, reptiles, amphibians, cephalopods, insects, and many other invertebrates. In his animal studies, Aristotle investigates and compares their form and structure, development, physiology, behavior, and ecology in order to learn how and why they live as they do.
Ok but he also thought women are sub human and the world is made of 4 elements. Not everything he said was right.
@@nm9688 He was a man of his time.
Apparantly, according to the muslims, its more reasonable to think that god intervened and gave Mohammed this "amazing" science than just him having studied what the scholars said about these subjects at the time
Indeed, this is what i find most strange. They overlook all plausible explanations just to pick the least probable and conclude that it is the only plausible explanation. What a weird set on people
PZ Meyers showing incredible grace and patience. it is confounding and so very disheartening when i think that in this day and age it is still unavoidable, engaging with those of a religious or faith-based mindset, in such wastes of time. i don't know as much about anthropology, psychology, sociology, as i should i guess...
So Mohammed was an intelligent man. So what? This does not demonstrate that any of it was divinely inspired. Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein were able to uncover incredible secrets about the universe. This does not mean that God had anything to do with it. Einstein was an atheist but if he claimed that he received his knowledge from God, some people would have believed him.
Skeptic Sam
Proph Muhammad couldnt have known this:
oh people if you are in doubt conserning resurrection so 'we created you from an ovum then from a zygote then from a blastocyst then from a disc which is differenziated & not differentiated .
ABIOGENESIS FROM CLAY & EVOLUTION FROM ANOTHER SPECIES :
ideed 'we created man from a progeny which originated from clay'. Then 'we made him into a zygote in a welcoming stable lodging . Then 'we created the zygote into a blastocyst.then 'we created the blastocyst into a disc . Then 'we created bones for the disc . Then 'we clothed the bones with muscles . Then 'we created him into another creation . So blessed is god , the best of creators .
Skeptic Sam
Proph Muhammad couldnt have known this:
oh people if you are in doubt conserning resurrection so 'we created you from an ovum then from a zygote then from a blastocyst then from a disc which is differenziated & not differentiated .
ABIOGENESIS FROM CLAY & EVOLUTION FROM ANOTHER SPECIES :
ideed 'we created man from a progeny which originated from clay'. Then 'we made him into a zygote in a welcoming stable lodging . Then 'we created the zygote into a blastocyst.then 'we created the blastocyst into a disc . Then 'we created bones for the disc . Then 'we clothed the bones with muscles . Then 'we created him into another creation . So blessed is god , the best of creators .
Skeptic sam.. so true
Youre lost this argument is so dumb
Thank you for posting this.
The stupid and the lying are rich, deep, and aromatic with those two clowns. And if the taller, more dishonest one is really a professor, his position at the university should be reviewed. He is too stupid and too dishonest to do adequate scholarship. That kind of dishonesty is through-and-through, its not compartmentalized.
7:33 The Muslim (Adnan Rashid) is a big liar. "Thumma" means "then" in Arabic and it appears twice in the verse: at the beginning and after flesh and bones reference. "Thumma" can NEVER mean "simultaneously" otherwise all the creation process of the baby would happen at the same time (not only the flesh and bones), and that would be a mess... apart from contradicting science even more.
the last guy with the long hair don't know what he's talking about he's saying Islam just brought failure into mankind, that's the problem people criticising without knowing !
No surprise that they don't let him finish a single argument without interrupting, while he listen patiently to their nonsense. They may be polite but they still haven't understood the value of exchanging ideas..which means LISTENING to the other side.
@sulsaleh
I watched it on the iERAuk channel. I'd be "out of words" too. It's a common debate tactic to try to maneuver your opponent into accepting the absurd or tire them into making a mistake. These iERA people showed themselves to be wellsprings of the absurd, even without prompting. They made ridiculous mistakes even in their prepared arguments. Like PZ, I'd smile speechlessly as victory is handed to me on a plate. They defeated themselves.
flying donkey, sun setting in the mud
I like how they say the embryos grow bones then flesh, and when PZ tells them that's wrong they immediately change their interpretation of the Qu'ran to say they grow simultaneously. And it didn't even give then pause for thought.
The Holy Quran is written in High Arabic which is one of the richest languages. To fully understand you need to speak Arabic. There’s no exact translation.
@@sabr2252 So that is what everyone says.. Quran can be manipulated the way you wanted
adnan changed his position after he explained to myers how embryology in the quran once he learned myers is embryologist. allah said in quran that woman has sperms come from ribs and man's sperms come from backbone and backeup by explanation by tafsir ibn kathir. first mistake of allah, woman has no sperms. 2nd mistake of allah, woman has eggs not sperms. 3rd mistake of allah, woman's eggs did not come from ribs but from ovary. 4th mistake of allah, man's sperms did not come from backbone but from testicles.
allah the supposed to be the all-knowing being but made a lot of mistake in the quran like this embroyology and sperms of the woman. another mistake by allah that "hails come from mountains". historical errors are many.
Love your work Rebecca. Keep it up!
Have you left that Bedouin Cult?
"Follow your forefathers with no knowledge"
...the guy summed up religion in a nutshell . LOL
My second point is that even if this was unique to Koran, it is still scientifically wrong.
We can discuss more "scientific miracles", but before we change the topic, do you admit that this verse does not describe big bang.
The guy on the left is my professor. This is what I get to enjoy every day
"god says that to deny god is to deny yourself"
"I say that to deny me is to deny yourself"
lolwhut?
No Arabic text written at the time ? Yet we have poets writing on scroll and placing them Kaaba 🕋 for public reading for competitions
Muslims are liars.
Waraqa was translating Hebrew Bible and gospels to arabic for readers at the time ? 😢
Muslims are liars
Poop Temidayo why you talking nonsense?
@@Bunyourdesires if am not older than your father, I should be older than you or father you. Why are you telling me such nonsense too? Don’t you know you guys are lying thieves? Why can’t you attack the response by debunking it rather than telling me I’m talking nonsense?
@@PopoolaTemidayo my man is very insecure
@@tekinet7958 who sir?
@@PopoolaTemidayo you
I looked at Hamza's facebook site and people seem to be buying his nonsense. I cannot believe it . . .
I currently lose my faith in mankind ouch
I love how AronRa is just there.
Galan said this 500 years earlier this divine claim, the Muslims come across as desperate
You see how atheists keep shifting the goalpost, one was saying Muhammad was a man fo his time and he was knowledgeable, even implied that he was literate the other calls him an illiterate. He was literate and illiterate when it suits their arguments.
Very weird creed.
no it is not....these clowns are the perfect picture how mohammedans are.
In the meantime Hamza changed his "opinion" only Adnan continues to fabricate arguments
Islamic science: just interrupt the speaker every time they are trying to make a valid point.
Works with Christianity as well.
I wish this was longer!!!!
Moham' probably went to a lot of bars and asked around "hey do you have cool science topic i can put in my ummmm personal diary?"
There weren’t any bars back then in Arabia you dumbass
Muhammad learn embryology from his Aunt husband, his Aunt husband studied the same Galan theory, which is exactly written in the Quran.
Check the source in Rob Christian CZcams channel or google it.
@@noobfighter8262 you got the link?
@@latts0783 type Rob Christian in CZcams
@@noobfighter8262 and what’s the title bro
Two of my favorite people in the world, showing their super powers by not letting their heads explode in this painful exchange. We need far more PZ's & AronRa's in the world.
it was so obvious Pz myers don't want to waste his time to debate with children
These Muslims in a nutshell: Arrive at the conclusion first and then twist the evidence so that it fits the conclusion.
its painful to watch this
"It is my field too." I loved that line.
No logic, backpedaling when in trouble, I say typical creationists.
PZ's look of "I don't believe you just tried to feed me that shitty line" at around 6:05 is perfect. :D
the fucking "roots" of the mountains ARE NOT "FOR" ANYTHING. They are not living!
All of these people missed that