Inside Story - Seeing Red (Centrewest Westbourne Park)
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- During the run up and period just after the 1992 General Election, the BBC filmed an episode called 'Seeing Red' about London's bus drivers. It was filmed at Centrewest's Westbourne Park depot near Paddington and featured a selection of employees and the issues they dealt with in the job.
Jim Brady ended up as Garage Manager at Potters Bar, one of the best
I've been a bus driver for 20 years. One thing for certain is bus drivers get a load of grief for little money. It is a horrible job that pays peanuts. I regret getting my PCV licence. As for privitisation, it has killed the bus industry. Privitisation is the worst thing that ever happened.
It's not the job of government to run bus services and undercut and squeeze out private contractors.
@@CA-ee1et Yes it is the job of the government to run public services, re5ernthsn profits going to shareholders, it should go back to public purse. Your clueless.
@@fwof3347I’d say you’re the clueless one to say that shareholders even control the majority of bus companies, or that said companies don’t reinvest in their services.
@@CA-ee1et Privatisation killed the UK's network of buses. In London, the service is contracted to private operators with TFL choosing how the routes are run. Many bus routes outside London like the Route 505 from Chingford to Harlow went from a regular service down to just a single return journey on a Saturday simply because it was not turning a profit. As for London why are TFL paying say £1.6 million to run the Route 31 per year when they can run it themselves for half that. A commercialised service in London just wouldn't work and the form of privatisation in London now just makes no sense. We don't need the Dutch state owned operator Abellio or German state owned Arriva or French state owned Transdev to operate our buses and trains for profit. Yes they are foreign state owned! Its ridiculous, do you think the UK government or any UK businesses can simply go to another European country and operate their public transport? No of course not. Foreign states running our transport 😂
@@CA-ee1etYou sure? Did you know foreign governments are running our transport?
Thanks for sharing, remember watching this when originally aired, a cracking snapshot from the shop floor of the bus industry back in the early 90’s.
This is so crazy. I use the 28 and 18 bus back and forth from Westbourne Park/Harrow Road to Euston etc to Ladbroke grove. Feels wow from the past to present.
Them days the 28 went from Golders Green to Wandsworth and the 31 Camden Town to Chelsea, they shortened them with a new 328 bus route running Golders green to Chelsea and they chose single deck buses on all 3 of those routes, you could never get on them because they were always packed! Ridiculous idea using single deck buses on these routes. You often had to wait for the next one, when the carnival was on, you had no chance! TFL are trying to axe the route 31 and replace it with the 189 between Camden and Swiss cottage and the 187 Swiss cottage to white city. Many people are not happy with this
Those were the days,...double dockets for taking over on time, 12 hour spreadovers, early turns finishing at 9/10 am, trying to find a telephone box when you went mechanical,....lol
Yeah I spotted the few blue Mercury payphones in this video! They didn't last very long. 😂
This bus garage is now part of the RATP Group, which took over Tower Transit in Westbourne Park Garage
The driver running early.... he's been warned - sack him - simple - no excuse! Love the way he says he's gone 12 months without getting caught... I MEAN erm not running early!
He finished enough time to get the LT pension and then ended up driving school buses and coaches
Love the 2 mechanics, the 'night owls' so-to-speak, who seemingly get lost in their only little world as they work on the buses, cut off from the rest of the garage.
Great to hear quite a few excerpts from GLR - first radio station i worked for, and, in my opinion : still the very best radio station in the world.
I’ve never found that jingle at 0:50 - but love it!
I think that jingle was from the second set of jingles we got from Airforce (who were based in Maidstone).
@@TheZacDJ ooh thanks for the info. I’ll have to do some scouring on t’interweb!
When we worked at Finchley for 2 weeks in 1997 I had GWR on every day and it showed my local equivalent Radio Solent up for the generic pile of cosy shite it was & still is 😃👍GLR sorry 🙄 GWR was the Swindon equivalent of even bigger shit than Solent ….Ocean Sound 👍
oh good old ravi we would call him the turbinator
Lovely Video
Loved the Mechanics talking about Route Masters Eastman and Lofty these are here to stay those buses were great Workhorses
watching this makes 1992 seem so long ago now. I miss those times, Was a pritty good time in history in genral. Even the iraq war back then was quit a moral and just war. Compared to the iraq 2 and all the other carry on that seems to go on these days. it all seemed to turn bad at the turn of the milenium.
Was this really 30 years ago! Looks like another world. No mobiles, no social media, conductors on buses.
Disciplinary for going early as a driver ! But the conductor regulates time. If the driver leaves early and the conductor says nothing he's at least jointly if not solely to blame .
crazy in 1992, £4.31 hour driving a mini bus £5.60 driving a double decker, Now I am getting £12 a hour and it's still not enough!
Wink1e AFC then you must be greedy then how much do you want them to pay you smh!
Not about greed, it's about having a wage that reflects the job..
Wink1e AFC but £4 - £5 in 1992 was roughly equivalent to today's £12. So things clearly haven't changed much.
swiftlydoesit that's my point that's why I said it still isn't enough, a London bus wage should be around £16-£18 a hour.
That's terrible! In New York City, bus drivers for MTA New York City Transit can often attain salaries of $80,000+ a year. British bus companies need to recognize the significant responsibility it is to operate a bus. And we don't even have double deckers!
Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
ah scratching when the bus behind follows the bus in front and will not pass it, the bus in front stops the one behind should overtake but it does not as it wants the one in front to pick up passengers
Yeah sometimes they can't overtake because they will pass a timing point early.
'I will overtake when it's safe to do so control'. -sCATACHER ;)
Miss the old RMs!
I miss the Ms!
I liked the young woman driver behind the wheel of a Metrobus. They were obviously on the route in her roster. My favourite LT bus type.
I'm wondering whether the American passenger near the end disliked seeing an old style bus on normal duty or was merely curious?
Great doco.
Memories, l trained in a crash gear box route master in Aberdeen about 1981, had some laughs on the buses.
Seeing 28 and 31 buses as a single bus and not double decker is wow. I've only seen double decker. Lool born in the 90s haha
Yeah it was ridiculous, they shortened the 28 and 31 with a new 328 route and they were still single deckers until about 2004. They were always packed and during the carnival it was impossible. The 31 is now with Metroline and TFL are trying to get rid of this route by running the 189 to Camden and 187 to White City. the N31 still runs Camden to Clapham Junction via Chelsea and the N28 Camden to Wandsworth. Very long routes
That Firebrand Jim Brady talked a lot of sense.
fancy the inspector calling the passenger an ' obstruction ' !
To think that back then Westbourne Park bus garage was still using the old 1950s Gibson ticket machines on their Routemaster-operated routes 7 and 23 up until the summer of 1993 when they were finally replaced by the electronic battery-operated Wayfarer Clipper ticket machines.
The depot manager got bullied at school...you can tell her was an easy target ! The inspector was t*at as well !
That bus JJD559D at 15.41 was MOD’d until may 2019!
Surely £122 a week even in the early 90s was rubbish?
Bomb scares in London at the time was so quite common though
Rumour has it John Cronin is still running early..
Worked at Westbourne Park X on the 328 driving VHs ,but cut my teeth on the metro at the Brook ,imagine if you took cash now and fare stages etc it’s easier regarding ticketing now
i left bus driving in 2019, i never looked back.
The young lady driver , anyone knows where her accent is from? And I always wondered what happened to the conductor,who was looking after a grandchild at home. Long retired by now anyway
Love the documentary wonder what happened to all the driver's and conductor's featured on this documentary
Many are dead.
@@danielgould9107😂😂😂
With that disciplinary meeting I think the manager knew that the inspector was trying to stitch the driver up, and the union bloke was being useless, hence not sacking him (but still being seen to say his piece). The mentions on the pay highlight where things changed with the creation of the LBL units, mention of other drivers on £3-£4 per hour more - the older LT contracts were very different and for ages bus drivers were on more than tube drivers. What the film didn’t show was the enhancements for Sunday’s, lates, enhanced Time On Duty and extra spreadover allowances which bumped things up a bit……..
Many drivers who I worked with who were ex LT drivers said the job became worse after the privatisation of LT buses.
Fantastic documentary. Proves politics are a dodgy business,!
i know george rhoden he was the union rep at westbourne park
Westbourne Park Garage still going though it has expanded in terms of having two levels for Buses being parked.
I remember when I used to work for Cummins diesel in the mid 90’s we used to get called out to Westbourne Park garage all the time for engine repairs. I remember the RMs had a 6 cylinder 8.3 litre engine, always painted in green!!!
the 18s that Shirley Crossland was driving in this video sound different to other MCW's why is that
6cta ????
@@andyclark1426 that’s the one
@@mrkipling2201 excellent, we had them in our 185kva generators, used to crack the exhaust manifolds and shear studs off, had one stick number 3 leg out the bed too
@@andyclark1426 brilliant!! Where was that at??
The Union sold the buses down the river
They still do
after deregulation of the bus's drivers and conductor's where paid less than they had been under london transport and the new guys who joined after private company's took over where paid less still and then the private company's had problems with getting staff and first bus who took over westbourne park would recruit italian's and spansh drivers and train them to get a bus licence and the training was free now in spain or italy you have to pay a lot of money for the licence and training and they had to agree to work for the company for 1 year but what happened after they got the licence they would go home to drive coaches in their home country
It just doesn't seem to sink in with both general public and the policy makers that mass privatisation of public transport, in the long run, just doesn't work.
@@sidewindersid4180 I used to believe that, but it's not entirely true. In Denmark and Sweden for example, carefully executed and tightly regulated privatisation of bus services has lead to significantly lower operating costs and has (of course amongst other things) allowed for a reduction in ticket prices and simultaneously an increase in services (more buses per hour to more destinations). In Switzerland, the publicly owned regional bus company "Postauto" has for more than a century now contracted a lot of their bus operation out to small independent firms, mostly because operating costs appear to be lower and results as good or better than when doing things in-house. Of course, in both those cases it is still the public sector that determines fares, routes, timetables etc. As such, services are also heavily subsidised as a whole and the aim is still very much to provide a public service, rather than to run a competitive business. A very different philosophy than that of past Tory governments to say the least. Privatisation of Japan's high-speed Shinkansen trains can also generally be regarded as a success, but once again it follows the same pattern of being carried out both very gradually and carefully and only where it made sense. Of course, for any one example of a successful privatisation, there's usually at least five complete disasters. The case of British bus-services and British Rail are both examples of particularly inept public policy and lack of leadership. British Rail and local bus services weren't just privatised (which may or may not have been the right decision at the time), but more importantly, they were privatised incredibly badly, that is say both shoddily and hastily. The cynics might say it was really nothing more than about giving the Tories an opportunity to sell off precious public assets to their crony friends. I'll let people make their own mind up about that one, but it's certainly no secret that a lot was sold for much less than it was worth. As much as that may have been the case though, I have to be fair and say that some forms of privatisation can still make sense in some situations. However, regarding how or why something should be privatised, the burden of proof definitely ought to be flipped onto those wishing to privatise and not, as has been the status-quo up until this point, rest with those simply wishing to keep a public business in public hands.
4:08 I know Enoch Powell crammed a lot into his life but I never thought he'd done a stint as a bus conductor.
What?
the development goes forward in a rapid pase i hope to keep my job as a driver for another 30 years. if i keep on ranting everyone will go bonkers on me but keep the good spirit up i'd say
£120 a week ? That's £480 a month. Fuck that for a monthly pay now !!
Bit of trivia here, the Conservative Candidate on the tv at 44.40 , was David Amos , the MP for Basildon who was stabbed to death a few years ago.
Southend.
Brilliant to watch a welcome change
if it in 4x3 show it in original format
MA1 is now with the London Transport Museum Heritage Collection in the care with Metroline CELF in Perivale & DW15 is now with London Transport Museum Depot in Acton Town as part of their Heritage Collection
intresting to watch, that disiplinary WOW imagine that these days the things that were said by either side lol just goes to show how the torys managed to smash up regulated industrys in the uk and this was the tail end of it! people doing whatever they wanted and unions being asked to go in and ask for 25% increases lol we handed it to managment and nuisness owners in this country with our rediclous attitude
Better time back then everything is too technological now and computerised
I agree. The balance was much better.
where's the rest of the frame
Just think most of these people will be retired by now
Why should 1 minute early be a crime?
I don't think it should be much of an issue.
And I travel on arriva 310
going to places like Hoddesdon,Hertford etc.
And I don't think it should matter as long they stick to schedule or the real time update.
Buses are allowed to be 1 minute early but no more than 1 minute
In my city, the ratios are -2/+5. You can be no more than 2 minutes early and no more than 5 minutes than late without question. I heard the best explanation from a driver “You can have 100 reasons for running late, but never a good reason for running early”
@@StephenMountenayHenhawke Few weeks ago, a driver at a garage close to me was pulled up for being seven minutes early. She was let off with no charge/warning after she - rather sheepishly - explained that the cab's aircon blower had jammed on cold and was sending cold air up her uniform skirt and blasting her lady bits meaning she needed the loo in a hurry. if I recall correctly, that bus was restricted to male drivers only until repairs could be made.
i used to drive the 310 Hertford - Waltham Cross, anyway rule of thumb is NO more than 1 minute early at any timing point which are listed points on a timetable/schedule - bus stops inbetween are just estimated and 5 minutes late although the running late does not hold any punch nowdays especially with the road networks and traffic conjestions we have now.
Ah man back in America there’s no private bus systems in San Fran I’m so lucky
How ironic America has no ideological issue running state owned transit but Britain, a traditional mixed economy acquired an obsession that private companies must run the world.
What's that sine in the top of the bus
@07:08 I never knew
Ronald Reagan was a bus driver?
3:15 My God! Someone in a business to make money! That's the only reason any industry in the world exists.
Young folk be careful…like Silver Tooth there , I would’ve laughed after 6 years but I ended up listening to moans about showers toilets drains & radiators for 42 years. As he says you have to appreciate your job but you don’t want to end up full of regret for not taking the plunger . 🐢❤️
@ 32:26 a Stan Butler for the 90s.
30:03
Looking at this documentary compared to ones 30yrs after, they're able to complain more cause of Twitter? Who would have thought!!!!
Why is the windows old in the bus
I was shocked to see the lack of professionalism...
Probably explains why their always late now...
I've been on buses where the bus driver deliberately did not stop at the bus stop despite me ringing the bell in good timing, does anyone know can bus drivers face disciplinary action for this?
Yeah...
...loads.
I bet you're not telling the truth.
I miss the old RM’s. Also it’s one of the only jobs were you could get sacked for running early!! I know it’s a big no-no in the profession but I would rather have my bus arrive early than late!! I’m sick of buses that arrive late.
If it arrives early people will be snnoyed because there will be a larger gap between buses
Arriving at a timing point early isn’t an issue, as long as you don’t leave early
Typical daft thinking of a bus passenger. Useless plebs.
What about those who get left behind from being ahead of schedule?
Call him a Union rep my arse more like management than union rep. TFL needs to abolish fining or disciplining drivers for running early. TFL or London Transport known at that time need to realise that they are providing a service to the public, so if drivers are being disciplined for running early then they're better off running an extremely late and poor service then.
It's the same in every depot even now you can't run early because thire is no excuse for running early being late it's nothing you can do traffic or whatever no driver wants to be late they get shorter breaks and go home later so all drivers would befaire to run early and no union rep can defend a driver who run early.
Why is this bus is old
Pip Pip Cheerio
Bob’s your Uncle
Why is the sky cold
Have you got a idea
Performance up, safety up, accidents down, green driving up. Imagine if the scare stories being trotted out in this video by the Union guys had an truth to them. Better for the passengers, id say so.
That may be however it's been at a much higher cost from your pocket sadly, you're ill informed. TFL pours millions into the bus network in subsidy to socially necessary but unpopular routes and lining the pockets of the operators owned by multinationals instead of the profit being accessible to be reinvested into the service. How many bus employees now do you hear speak of being as proud and committed to passenger safety and service as some of those in the video?
@@muk8804 That may be true for the larger bus companies, but in the uk the majority of them are small or medium sized with local ownership. And it appears they do just as well reinvesting back into the service as local authorities do - so your point is incorrect.
This is the past now they are different to me do you comment down below alright please bye always
Why are the people old
...
And none of these silly smoking bans in the workplace and all that rubbish
Well, I’d rather not be arriving home smelling like an ashtray…
I don't know
Have a good day
We would have been better off under Labour mate.
This video is good is it good for you
British public transport, in my opinion, should nationalize
Rwmember tgis well. Jobs were lost. After Privitisation. Wether pro or Nti. It a facto
This is all about the past the end