The Belief It Or Not Podcast: Ep. 135 - Church Splits
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2023
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As always we are not experts, we just google this stuff.
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Was a pastor, I nearly split two churches because I implemented background checks for children workers. Woman left the church because she wanted adult height tables in the children’s room. Woman cussed me out in front of the church nursery, while claiming to be literally sinless (she left).
The amount of bullshit I saw in 14 years…
People got mad because you wanted background checks for the children's workers? So, they don't actually care about children's safety, they just like to use kids as an excuse to persecute the LGBTQIA+ community. I'm shocked. *sarcasm*
I cannot fathom anyone being against background checks for working with kids Dx
"Jesus, I'm so much better than you 🎶"
@@aazhie the reaction was “we don’t have any child molesters here,” essentially taking the policy as a personal attack/accusation instead of a basic safe guard. Church is just another place people can gain control/identity, it’s just a very low bar threshold in many cases.
@@reverendatheist7026thank you for at least attempting to protect children when you were in a relative position of power to try.
I split from my church and became an atheist.
I split from my church and became a single Christian.
"Jesus preached the kingdom of God and what we got instead was the church."
@@MrSeedi76 the church is the people, you nimrod.
I Split from the church and became a pagan witch lol
I never particularly enjoyed the church. eventually i was forced to be metaphysical. had no choice. is atheism a choice...
“Atheist”? What denomination is that?
A church in my hometown split over whether or not Adam and Eve had belly buttons.
I googled it and churches literally do split over this, that's fucking insane. Of course the articles I found were Christian articles talking about how it happens because "we lose focus on Christ!" Orrrr maybe it happens because it's bound to happen when you worship a book written in dead languages BY HUMANS 2000 years ago
Lmao no way 😂
I ain’t never thought of this💀 but it makes sense if they didn’t
Never thought about that, I suppose they wouldn't
My family was part of a Mennonite community for several years and I remember a church splitting over a disagreement on how long women’s socks had to be 🤦♂️
🧦🙃 That's so weird lol!
Gotta cover up those sinful ankles and calves!
The ankles are just too provocative for men to resist. Ankles lead to bad thoughts.
My mother grew up in the Mennonite church. She moved to Presbyterian for a church musician job but is still very concerned about the length of her pants/shirts & feels the need to justify not wearing socks sometimes during the summer (in a desert climate). It's strange, but I try to do positive reinforcement when these things come up. Her current church split previously over some business decision.
God-honoring foot fetish
CZcams froze right after the words "dead babies" and created the most awkward long pause, it was comedy gold
The church I grew up with didn't split, but I remember there was a long, heated conversation at a congregational meeting about a potential new Reverend. It was about the fact that her last name was hyphenated.
Once upon a time Sundays were the worst day of the week. NOW we have Belief it of not! Sundays have improved
My childhood church broke up because one of the deacons, who volunteered for Big Brothers, molested some kids and then repented and wanted to be reinstated into church leadership. His friends supported him, but the pastor stood up to them and said no. The church was dissolved shortly after that.
Wow, the fact that there wasn't the ability to stay together and reject child abuse is horrifying. Any org thay can't be consistent on "no child abuse" ought to immediately croak.
I wish the pastor wasn't the only one to stand up against that
One of the infinite reasons I'm an atheist. You'd think rejecting pedophiles wouldn't be a difficult stance to have but oh noooo. When it comes to protecting and ignoring pedophiles, Christianity is king.
@@Rawnblade13 I have learned that everything is forgivable unless you are gay during my time in the church and that never sat well with me why is that one thing so much worse then someone that abuses that abuses his wife and kids
After the whole affair was done, the pastor was talking to a group of friendlies (myself included) and he told us that after he had taken the position, but before he started in it, another pastor in the conference told him he was entering a nest of vipers.
@@Flockmeisterwow that is so depressing
An inerrant God with an inerrant book. And yet, people can't agree on what what God wants and what the book means. Almost like people are just constructing the whole thing out of their own fears and desires.
It makes people stagnant, if all someone has to say is 'read the bible', then they never have to learn or move past it. And it's such a hodge podge mess, it can mean whatever their interpretation wants it to mean 👍
It's almost like that? Brother, this is a world where people will argue to the death that sand is wet and water's dry just to suit their own narrative. God gave us dominion over the rest of the earth and we mistook it as domination, and started making our own rules to everything. If anyone has doubt about something, look to nature and it has the answer. But you must have your eyes open first
God wants people to follow him and his word and God encompases all that is good. Also people don't get that and proverbs 16:25 explains why. Also there is a spiritual understanding because God is spiritual not physical.
that's because religions dont speak for god....nobody can. god dosent involve itsself in human affairs. some manage short glimpses.
@@gothboschincarnate3931 Amen Goth Bosch Incarnate.
finally something good comes from my dog waking me up in the middle of the night!
Rabbit
here's looking at you, American United Methodist Church
🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈
31:40 People leave ashes at Disneyland all the time. Especially on The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean. Rides are shut down when people do it to remove the remains. Don't leave ashes at Disneyland. They'll get vacuumed up.
That's why you leave meaty chunks. It'll get cleaned up but it will take much longer and they probably won't be able to get the smell out.
When you refuse to open your eyes, its easy for someone else to convince you how the world looks
Growing up IFB, practically every church i belonged to split up. Its hard to stick together when everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong.
The church that I grew up in had a split (before I was born). They split up because the church elected a woman to be the new Chief Overseer. The first Chief Overseer was the founder of the church. She died, and they didn't agree that another woman should be the new Chief.
Brovaries over ovaries, apparently
God I'm so sick of Christian misogyny
If you want to hear another dumb church split story, in my home town, a guy started a new Baptist church in town because he and a bunch of other people didn’t like the new carpet color the original church had picked out. Shit like this does actually happen.
🙃That's so dumb and petty lol!! 🤣
You know what zoomers would call that? They would call it a gigachad moment.
Happy Sunday, everyone! So good to have *not-church* this morning! 😊
Amen!😂 I always felt church was the most miserable thing ever!
@@attitudeproblem6462 Ugh, tell me about it! Listening to these guys in my pyjamas beats wearing a frilly dress and pantyhose to church on a Sunday anyday!
My two favorite historical church splits was that one time in the US when the church split over rock and roll music and one time in Russia where Church split over the number of fingers you need to do the course
What course needs a minimum amount of fingers??? I'm just imagining a "you have to be this tall to ride" sign outside a church except it's for fingers
@@justbrowsing9697 so they had people who used 2 fingers to do the traditional cross shape greeting ( it's a thing in Catholics too I believe . You are supposed to cross yourself next to the pop for example) and the other faction wanted 3...
just got back from the club, new video up, excellent night
Yo me too!!
The New and Improved Testament: Now with less slavery and r4pe.
I’m so ready to unwind from work with this…I didn’t even realize this channel had a podcast before just now 😅❤
They're teasing doing a livestream (fun with bad christian animation)
In my church during communion, the priest takes a swig of wine, swishes it around in his mouth, and then spits it directly into the mouth of the member taking communion. Of course, during the pandemic, for public health reasons, we had to switch out the wine with Listerine. Boy, did that cause a schism!
Say what? 🤢 what church is that?
What in the great white shark?! 😦
Um, sorry, it took a pandemic for them to realize that's effing disgusting?
@@mirandarensberger6919 Yeah, who wants to drink the priest's backwash and tartar/plaque?!😫🤢🤮
whyyyyy? that's so gross.
That line about the Book of Mormon was sublime.
The last church I worked had had a split because they decided to add a second service with *gasp* MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS. They still had an a capella first service that people could go to if they didn't want to go to one with instruments, but apparently even having a separate service IN A SEPARATE BUILDING with musical instruments was just a bridge too far for some people.
I just wanted to say I appreciate you guys🧡
45:18 I am reminded of Chowder:
"Back in my day people would get up for ladies on the train."
"Sure, you know any?"
(Implying they're women of ill repute.)
This video was so good! Back when I was a Christian, I went to church multiple times per week. That was pretty much my life (aside from school at the time). Then, when I got older and deconstructed my faith, I stopped going to church all together. My parents still went to that church for a while after I stopped going, so I heard that there was a bit of a split there after the first pastor retired and was replaced by someone else. The new pastor was very “hip” and wanted to incorporate more things that would attract a younger crowd (like more modern music). Apparently, many people who had been involved in that church for a while did not like those choices, so they decided to go to different churches.
I can’t blame them, I guess - if I was going to throw away 10% of my paycheck each month to a church, I would want it to go to a church I liked 🤣😂
Bible 2,the third Testament: The Reconing!
There was this really funny joke website once. Bible 2.0, "now with 10 completely new commandments" and other hilarious stuff 😂.
Back in April, GAFCON, a "conservative group of Anglican church leaders said... that it no longer had confidence in the leader of the Church of England (CoE) over his... proposals to allow priests to bless same-sex couples in church after a civil marriage"
Thanks, I will be on a video call with an Anglican priest in a couple hours. This information will help weigh down the back of my head so my face doesn't start rising up uncontrollably!
Wait, wouldn't that be the King of Emgland?
@@soapsatellite Technically, yes. But they were actually referring to the Archbishop of Canterbury.
@@robhogg68 Ah, okay.
You left out the Paul/Peter split.
24:00 most folks who aren't on CZcams, working hourly, are so exhausted and they're in constant recovery mode. When you're always on the edge of ruin, it's exceptionally hard to do anything besides rest. A lot of people avoid polotics because its energy and time they don't have because they need to eat and the factory will replace them if they slip up.
It's so nice to hear people figuring it out for themselves, this book is about divide and conquer, not about loving one another.
The opposite of "Gnostic" IS NOT "non-Gnostic."
It is "Agnostic," just like for Theist and Atheist.
Gnostic is basically a catchall term for sects that aren't orthodox (like the Cathars). They didn't call themselves gnostic, it's a term used by the orthodox church. An "us vs them" thing.
Thanks for the Chris Gaines reference.
You guys had me laughing.
I thought my group of friends was the only one still making that call back.
You guys helped me SSOOO much with my deconstruction, I will always be so thankful for this channel 🙏 thank you so much, every time you upload it makes me so happy. Keep it up! 🎉
It’s interesting you talk about splits & Calgary.
I lived there for a couple decades of my life and attended the same church - the “Asian” church of our denomination.
The other churches were the “White” church (the largest church) which had a significant number of PoC too. It was considered the “main church”. It was a two minute drive from my “Asian” church.
There was a “Spanish” church (Spanish was spoken) a block next to a mixed church in a less desirable area. I’ll call it the “Village Square” church.
There was a “Rich White” church and a Black church.
That was the case for quite a number of years. Then in my earliteens, splits started happening.
My father decided to start another church (close by to the Spanish and the Village Square church).
A few Asians decided to split from the Asian church and start another one.
And yet another “white” church was started just outside of East Calgary where land was plentiful.
Why did all these churches keep splitting? I don’t know exactly because they all believed the same doctrine and fundamental beliefs.
My suspicion was drama and grudges. Y’know, typical Christian stuff.
All the new churches after the original 5 rented their space from other Christian churches. It was cheap/easy to rent due to having the Sabbath on a different day.
omg, the bit about Jesus' literary agent was amazing
The agent is harassing the wrong person, though. The original was all ghostwritten, they need to be talking to the actual authors.
wicked cool dog @rabbit -- I wish my cat did that 😊 Hey guys I'm new recently & loving this show! I'm a practicing neo-pagan wiccan (witch) and herbal healer; we were screwed big time by the "church/patriarchy" haters. I was formerly a "jew for Jesus" (not very long) but my brother still is - 30 yrs! I always loved studying different beliefs but we're in deep shit now with all the evangelicals & white nationalism, willful ignorance, jingoism -- our future is all wrapped up and a new version of the Crusades is brewing. Being 64 & terminally ill I'm somewhat relieved to not see it personally but I'm sad about the future suffering and blame greed, selfishness & religious extremism ESPECIALLY Christianity 😢. My own brother condemned me to burn in hell for being an abomination to the lord. That great Christian LOVE! Peace & Love ✌️ ❤
I was told to expect harassment and blowback from the church, but when I left, nobody seemed to notice. Now I really question all those hours and hours of unpaid work they got from. I should send them a bill.
😂 I’d say we need to be more conscientious of invisible disability, but I’m in a wheelchair and once someone asked me to get up.... So maybe if you really need a set just try and address the crowd first and then try individuals.....
I think it would be called "TESTAMENT 3" or just "T3STAMENT"
Talking about deacons, it is also a power trip for a lot of them. I was a cop for years. I've had to go to a couple of churches because of power struggles between deacons. Once, it was literally a fight between the pastor and a deacon. From what I could gather, the deacon basically wanted everything his way and the pastor wouldn't concede. They were fighting in the parking lot in front of the church as I pulled up.
My favorite split is the Baptist Church. Just ask the Southern Baptists why there is a "Southern" Baptist Church. I imagine you'll get quite a few interesting excuses.
That and the LDS and FLDS, they split over polygamy.
I was raised southern baptist and I couldn't figure out the difference between my church and baptist church until the day the preacher gave a sermon on how it was a sin to mix the races ...... this was 2006 btw I just walked out mid service my cousin's oldest daughter was just born a few weeks prior and she is a mixed race kid and I wouldn't change anything about that, I still have a hard time believing racism was that prevalent in the church at that time
Yeah. It's over slavery. They really don't like when you say that.
Now it's women as pastors.
@@nola281 is that what the issue is now I'm so happy I have been out of the church for nearly 15 years now
@@cyanmage1 it was on the news. The sbc voted that if your church has a female pastor, then your church is not allowed in the official sbc umbrella. Strangest part is the women supporting this, they are advocating for their own destruction.
@@nola281 people advocating against their own rights has always happened, Florence Nightingale was anti women’s suffrage, now we have Candace Owens who’s anti- BLM. Usually these are people who have gained a small amount of power with in the system and fear losing that when others gain equality or equity. Usually it’s wealth privilege combined with nominal acceptance.
15:35 🎯🎯🎯
And also b/c the older people usually have the _money._ So they definitely have more pull.
Lotta gangsters in Calgary 😂😂
That abrupt edit makes me think uncle ron wasnt really a nice guy 😅
I just talked too long about his facial hair.
god is so wise he left mankind one book for us to argue over and interpret as we choose so that we can fight anyone who disagrees with our version of god's infallible vague nonsensical bullshit.
Great show today, guys. Very accurate on the schism and reformation.
1. Cemetery vs. Playground: SOOOO Parks and Rec. I like to imagine that April Ludgate suggested combining the two.
2. Filing cabinet argument: The Office - copier vs. chairs, except that's a more logical debate.
3. When I was a Christian at a Baptist university and the music director asked me to sing with the choir at his Presbyterian church, I researched that denomination first to see if it was OK for me to step away from being Baptist for a second. I was assured by many Christians that the similarities make it OK.
4. Cranberry grape juice would be disgusting. If I attended and expected grape juice, only to discover they bought the kind with cranberry in it, I'd be furious.
Watching "the Church" doing the splits... a bit awkward ;) but funny!
My grandparents where joe and joan.
My power flickered so my smart lights were maxed out at 3AM. This helps
On the topic of funerals, Yogi Berra said something like "make sure to go to other people's funerals, otherwise they might not come to yours."
As an American, i felt attacked by the “high tops and foul mouth” comment😅
Iesus radit, sed solum crura !!!
So if I pay for this VPN, my ISP will not see the final destination of my packets, but instead they will see all of my traffic destined for the VPN. But how exactly is it better for the VPN to see all my traffic metadata than my httpsDNS + Tor tunnel networks.
Just kidding, thank you for the show!
I am much happier with you pushing VPNs than perfumes as I am allergic to fragrance!
45:57 Jesus' publisher is Krusty the Clown
Do you have merchandise?
Oh and nice haircut. :-)
i've been in a chuch where people left because of the color of the new carpet/ pew cushions, or a christian school being there in the church.
and more recently i was in a church where people left because the church took the american and christian flag off the stage, and the church allowed a divorced man to be a deacon. its crazy
I was part of a church split where the deacons wanted more power over the church day to day, while leaving the pastor to do everything. the bus ministry deacon took the bus and the music leader took his piano and hymnals that he had DONATED.
So many church splits over screwing 😅
Any fans of Francis Schaeffer's novels here? He lampoons these endless church splits (and his father Francis' splintering off into his own One True Church) by adding C's to the Presbyterian denominations' acronyms with every split. It gets ridiculous. The Presbyterian Church of the USA (PCUSA) ends up being the PCCCCUSA (Presbyterian Church of Calvinist, Confirmed, Confession, USA), which is a mouthful, and then his protagonist's dad, who is based on Francis, splits off on his own.
The church I grew up in split over which ply toilet paper to buy 😂
A baptist church I attended when I was young split apart after one of the senior members had an affair and the pastor attempted to cover it up. The pastor was also not a christian
25:32 rural communities often benifit the most from goverment intervention: such as the rural airport act that subsidized smaller airports so people didn't have to drive into a capital city to fly, or possibly across state lines.
Government intervention helps guarantee water quality testing and treatment
Maybe instead of making fun of people who are terrified of sudden changes, make a case for what the system can change about their life to make shit better.
[Maybe instead of making fun of people who are terrified of sudden changes, make a case for what the system can change about their life to make shit better.]
What if the sudden change is what makes their shit better?
Is it government intervention or good governance?
@@agimasoschandirdepends on the problem that needs solving.
If the pipes in a town are contaminated with lead, that requires immidiate intervention. People are getting poisoned, and the rest of their life will be impacted by it. We know the problem, we know the solution, it should be fixed immidiately to prevent harm.
If a voting system is gradually forcing people to make choices between the lesser of two evils, it needs intervention to change that outcome.
If a system of taxation takes from those who have the least to give, it needs intervention.
Good governance means fixing things when they're obviously broken and doing harm.
Reference to "I, Claudius", best TV series ever. Books were good too. Livia was the best villainess ever.
excellent! am i wrong for laughing this hard! you two are funny!
"United" Methodist Church is splitting 😂😂😂
I don’t know of any proper local church splits here, but I do know that one the most conservative churches in town grew massively over the course of a couple months. At the same time that my old church and several others lost significant portions of their congregations because those churches insisted on following Covid regulations.
I wasn’t ready for the i Frankenstein reference 😭😂
A modern version of Frankenstein would be Jurassic Park just because they both explore themes about putting too much power in the hands of those who don't know the power they're dealing with.
Like genetically reincarnated dinosaurs, messing with god, nature, evil done in the name of science & the ethical dilemma of how science is used.
i want the younger generation to take over and i support them in what they are doing because they are our hope just like when i was griowing up i was the new and upcoming generation
The hand eye joke 🤣.
Former non-institutional Church of Christ here. Their entire history is an extensive series of splits, divisions, and partings or kicking out, over some of the pettiest things.
Whether communion should be served in one cup shared by the whole congregation or many individual cups.
Whether women should be required to wear veils or other head coverings in services.
Whether women are allowed to speak up in bible classes and studies (not even the main services) or must remain silent the entire time theyre in service.
Whether or not women are allowed to wear anything except dresses/skirts.
Whether or not a pitch pipe breaks the church's prohibition on musical instruments.
And i could go on and on and on.
Its to the point that almost every small town throughout the south and southwest has at least two separate CofC congregations, both of which think the other are hellbound heathens alongside every other denomination, and the members do not speak to anyone from the other church ever.
One of the things I like about my denomination is that it formed from a fusion of the Universalist and Unitarian denominations. Enough shared principles to decide to become one organization. (Don't get me wrong, plenty of ordinary human dramas despite that.)
I'm going to church that all faiths can worship together and can socialize has a large outdoor area for people who are witchesOr other nature-based faves a Christian church the excepts witchcraft and I want to have Mills open to the public except for at the one homeless shelter most of the meals are only one a day I want something that will be for Single people where we're not trying to hook them up where they can just if they like to cook bring food so that they're not having 1 million leftovers and stuff going bad cause they only are cooking for one person or we can or for people who don't want to cook for themselves something for the older people Sometimes it's just not as much a cooking situation and this way I want to be kind of like at home I want music to be
Guitars and a rock beat! Now that is the devil's music. Add church organ and choir chants and singing, now you have Ghost. The frankincense is already used in alot of churches.
Why split over someone hiding the vacuum cleaner? Why wouldn't you just say, OK, you do all the vacuuming if it means that much to you?
Yea Mr Robot has changed the way I used wifi and the internet lol
Edit: SPREAD MY REMAINS AROUND DISNEYLAND; DO NOT CREMATE ME
I would really love to see you guys do another episode of the podcast on apologists :D. I’ve looked at some red pen logic and stand to reason and their arguments are bad
Jesus needs to get on that retconned bible! 🛐
The church my parents belong to split because one church didnt think you should clap when you sing
the truth is typically singular...
Power struggles inside God's Holy Church? Who would have guessed?
If we can celebrate the birth of a person, shouldn't we celebrate or honor the life of someone when they die, especially if they wanted it?
Gnosticism vs Notsticism
I wonder what these fellow's opinions on judaism and the state of israel are?
Joseph Blough?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Right?! Lmao, I am wheezing about the pettiness, omfg🤣🤣🤣🤣
re: bill maher and being a liberal, that is actually still being a liberal, honestly. it's not _progressive_ but liberals and progressives are only groups with overlaps, and not groups that are fundamentally tied in any way. liberalism and conservativism have never been mutually exclusive ideas, which is why the usa's two party system is such a mess, and i'd think some canadians would have a better sense of just how toothless liberals often are, since your liberal and progressive parties are separate.
There is no.Pastor over any church in the Bible.
Francis is American South America he's from Argentina the current pope is Argentinian you're missing a little bit of history
I think they meant from the U.S., I'm from Central America and I remember thinking how unfair it was for the rest of the Americas to not be included 😂.
If I'm not wrong I think that it's just more specific: South American, Central America, North American (U.S., Canada and Mexico), but if you say "American" it just means from the U.S.
Don't know why, just know that's how it is 🤷♀️
@@erikak128 Probably because everywhere else has a specific label based on the country. US just has American as a whole.
@Crypt Beast definitely! Although in Spanish we do say "Estadounidense" which roughly translates to "United-Statian" (?). I think it's mainly an English language thing because it does sound so weird
@@erikak128 French also calls people from the US americans, so, it's more than just english.
To be ruthlessly blunt, this episode is nowhere nearly as captivating as the others. I'm a great fan of Belief It Or Not, but if this had been the first episode I watched, I'm neither sure I'd have watched it through, nor whether I'd have bothered watching any more. The others are quirky, well-informed and engrossing - this one just feels amateurish and un-thought-out. Sorry to be quite so on-the-nose but it would be a pity if this became anyone's only impression of the Belief It Or Not series.
What A Bore.
My God is better than your god, so there !
There was kind of a lull in the middle where you just droned on about nothing. I almoar clicked off. Representative voting kinda lost me.
"Narcissism of Small Differences" is a term for a particular social phenomenon that fits the theme of this video. It describes a situation in which parties who had recently worked together closely are now in conflict.
The specific situations that result in this phenomenon involve both parties sharing nearly-identical assets of talents & ability; [involved striving to fulfill the same Social Role
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences ]
I enjoyed looking that concept up thank you
@@catmeme2446 good kitty