I’m recommending we NOT INSULATE This Old House
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- čas přidán 30. 08. 2021
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The author does like to from scratch, czcams.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. As another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us don’t have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we won’t be able to practise the full stack project, is still great.
You’re missing the most relevant factor as to why those walls are dry on the inside: lime mortar. The bricks are laid with lime mortar, which is less dense than the bricks and breaths/allows the moisture to wick out on a grand scale and evaporate.
Idk if you're right, but it sounds good. You get a like haha
Yep and lime plaster on the interior, which they just ripped out--ooops
@@kevinhibbard320 They're 100% correct. This is how solid walled houses are pointed in the UK, and if they're also rendered they're rendered with lime. Houses of this period that are pointed or rendered with cement often have so many issues with blowout and damp
I use lemon mortar... I save lime for my ice cold Corona
@@carlsapartments8931 Grapefruit plaster is also good.
I lived in an old home in Spain. No insulation, concrete and stucco build, plaster walls.
It got cold and I turned on my kerosene space heater, closed the door to that part of the house and started fixing dinner. You cannot imagine my shock when I went back into the living room to discover I couldn’t see farther than my arm! The extreme moisture held in the walls formed a thick fog cloud inside the house with the introduction of the heater. ☁️☁️☁️☁️☁️
I opened the windows as the air outside was drier than inside.
I believe you. And that's hilarious!
You should always have the windows cracked a little when using a kerosene heater indoors anyway. Otherwise their combustion products (CO2, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, etc) will accumulate in the room to unhealthy levels.
You should also only use them as much as necessary, and turn them off every so often and air out the room before continuing, if you're doing it for a long time.
(It is ironic that in places where these heaters are your main heat source for a home, to heat up your home in the winter, you actually need to open a window...)
@@foogod4237
The room had ventilation via a fireplace, but you aren’t wrong! Good advice!
Pics or it didn’t happen
@@nofurtherwest3474
I took three but something went wrong…the film printed out nothing but whiteout.
🤣 joking
I think what everybody missed on this home is that it is balloon framed the wall studs go all the way to the foundation it's constantly circulating air all the way around the outer shell from the crawl space I think this house could be insulated within baffles in the wall to keep the air flow circulating it'd be perfectly fine for another hundred years
Exactly my thoughts.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree, and I think that can work in the final whole home system, however...I'm in Canada, colder climate... can't think of not insulating the house. IMO, poly inside the framing and seal it, and then build an inner frame with modern insulation technologies, likely something that breathes well such as rock-wool. You lose a small percentage of overall square footage, but with a house that size nobody will miss it. The outer wall still moves any moisture it needs to, the inner wall is protected from that, and the house enjoys a proper insulating layer. Matt, thoughts?
I was wondering the same thing and this is the question I am dealing with in my house as well. The one issue I see is my house has 2x4 studs so adding baffles and then insulation, I would need some kind of very thin Rockwool which I'm not sure they make. Not to mention all the other stuff like electrical I need to run through my walls.
Are you thinking baffles on the outside of the cavity?. In cooler climates I'd wonder if you are placing the dew point (for in-house moisture) inside the wall. Yet what you are describing is a little how a vented attic works.
@@pcatful yes sir
1) The particle board has a air gap between it and the brick (That is 1 reason why it's survived so well as others pointed out old brick work sheds humidity better than modern mortar) 2) if you want to give the particle board air you can use Sofit spacers used for insulating rafters to keep the insulation 1.5" from the sheeting. you'd be able to insulate while maintaining the original air gap on the inside of the sheeting. 3) Now that the Original particle board has Numerous holes you've punched into it you'll have to change the approach to keeping it dry by increasing the volume of airflow so the interior of the board doesn't retain humidity (Which is what you saw at the base with discolored particle board. Not enough air) 4) A completely closed pocket must stay closed and have some through absorbent surface to shed any moisture (Which the original plaster was) since you plan to go with drywall and you perforated the outer board you definitely want insulation to mitigate rapid moisture changes in outer walls.
Our 1948 ballon frame house had no insulation, tar paper, and 105 wood siding nailed to the studs. The upper part had tar paper, 1x4s spaced out with double course cedar shakes attached to those. And we still had rotten siding on a few spots! We recently stripped the exterior walls, added Rockwool insulation, plywood not osb, 30# tar paper, and double course cedar shakes. Above that hardie board. I’m loving it so far.
Damn how much did you spend for that? And what do you mean by exterior walls? Aren’t all 4 sides exterior walls?
One of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from watching this channel is the importance of things drying out. Getting wet or exposed to moisture is not always a problem if things dry out. It's made me look at my old house differently.
Best to let basement walls dry to the interior of the space; above grade, in northern climate, let it dry to the exterior. Today's homes have poly sheat behind drywall; this method is so different from plaster.
Exactly I learned this here a long time ago.
It's OK if it gets wet as long as it gets dry too.
Thank you for this video! Perfect timing. We're renovating a 100 year old victorian wood frame house in Cocoa FL, and we just had water seep into the walls after the hurricane. The house has no rot at all and all the wood behind the plaster has been in perfect condition. You helped us understand that these old houses can dry out. We still need to seal up a few places where water was getting in, but now we know that it has been self-drying for the past 100 years and will continue to do so.
If you add air conditioning you're changing the way the house works regardless of insulation. On a hot humid day, warm air is going to flow through the wall cavity (through the giant holes in the sheathing you showed) and condense on the back of the cold sheetrock.
No way air conditioning is just now being added to this building. Likely had a/c for the last 50 years.
it wil dry out fast enough to not be an issue in the majority of cases, great point tho for crawl space or basement type areas.
Yep. Bet if you pulled that stack (ductwork) out, the back of that is in interesting shape.
If sheet rock were a conductor I would worry, but it is not it is an insulator, I would insulate the ducts in this house for sure.
I would think rockwool would have enough breathing ability to mitigate mold growth
As someone who lives in a 120 year old house with plaster walls, this was much appreciated. I like your style on new construction and am appreciative that the principles you speak of, properly applied, still work with old construction.
so if u buy a 100 year old house. trying to modernize it with insulation vapor barriers etc could actually be a bad thing?
@randomrazr yes. I have a 1910 home balloon framing. There are methods to modernize it with a "channel and vapor barrier then dry wall.. but you would have to demo all the walls.. not economical.
@will201084 all the exterior one's at least.
That sheathing is Homasote. Also that mineral wool insulation was made from Coal slag and it's messy and not very effective. I know cause our 1960 house(not too many miles from that house you are showing) had it in the walls... The house was also built out of lumber from a disassembled house so the lumber is very old very hard and very strong. I have a few of the 2x4s left from an older remodel and I hate to use them because they are such nice lumber that isn't available anymore.
Yes, my 1958 house had it. In my area they referred to it as beaverboard. I think that was an old brand of the product.
My house was build in 1950 and sometimes I think the reclaimed lumber from it would cost more than the house.
Or possibly Masonite, invented in 1924, mass produced starting in 1929. Unfortunately, they started using it as siding in the 1980s, and class action lawsuits started in the late 1990s. Still makes for good pegboard.
can any of it ahve asbetos?
@@randomrazr when i saw johns manville i thought ASBESTOS!
Matt, I lived a old 1800's brick mill and had a Mason repoint the bricks. When they were finished, they sprayed the entire structure with a silicone sealant. Rain would bead up and run off the outside. But it was breathable so any moisture on the inside could escape.
I have a brick full masonry house, and am considering applying this type of sealant so that I would then be able to insulate without having moisture problems. Sounds like you have been pleased with the sealant. Did you add insulation at the same time you applied the sealant?
It may have been silane/siloxane and not silicone
This was great because you are back to reality, advising on problems most of us will face rather than new ideal builds
They always seem to drift away from things that regular people experience.
@JustAnotherTowerClimber Yes he is, however his youtube audience isn't. What makes content interesting is how we can identify with it. I will never have a 20K HVAC system.
@@jtmack77 its a money thing
@@jtmack77 Not sure how you can say what the audience is, some videos get over 1million views, some videos are deliberately geared toward builders and those looking to build. Just because you're not part of that group doesn't mean others aren't.
I really don't get the constant complaints about content due to price. This isn't a renovation channel. It's certainly not a renovation channel geared toward small budgets. The whole point of the channel was to show how to build better -- certainly better than the production work he did previously. And with the average new production build now close to 300k, a lot of people will never have that. And that's ok, enjoy the content for what it is even if your own circumstances mean you'll never try for a passive house. Neither will I
@@recoveringarchitect7581 Dont you know? Anyone thats not upper class sees themselves as the "regular person" and everything is supposed to represent what they as individuals want to see because they support their individuality with the illusion that it represents most people
Not a contractor, and really a only small project DIY guy, but I never miss one of your vids. Thanks dude!
I’m not even in the game anymore used to be a handyman and help carpenters but still love learning from his videos!
One time, I added exterior underground insulation to a basement. It did nothing after adding on the long sides. One side was above ground due to terrain slope. But when I added the final 25" of rigid insulation, suddenly the basement was a LOT warmer! While you might want to add insulation on the spots without that particle board, based on my experience, it'll be a waste of money because the heat loss from the uninsulated area will dominate the heat demand.
I have an old log farm house here in Finland that serves as my summer cabin, disassembled moved to it's place in 1920's. Just by keeping the doors shut it stays "cold" in 20C no matter how hard the sun bathes the walls in the summer, kids call it the "ice room" because the temperature difference to some times over 40c outside is so big on summers. Other end of the house that sees more traffic doesn't do the same as the door there is most of the times open and people go in and about as it has the kitchen and the living room.
On winters though the house is cold as heck but still keeps naturally relatively warm in -10C and the old masonry heaters take ages to warm up. original double windows help to keep it warm though as do the floor that sits 1meter above ground with 1/2 meter of saw dust for insulation, the mid roof (the house has an attic accessed from outside) is similarily insulated albeit with clay and straw.
Only issue the house has is that frost has moved the stone foudation over the years so the house has started to drop from one side and also dry rot that eats timber over time.
There are techniques to make foundation to not move (staves under stones in foundation similar to today) but those are only found in mansions of the nobles not in farms of the common folk.
Good gracious you are a young man. That product was sold well into the 1970s and was very common. It is a use of cane fiber. Mostly on the exterior it was sprayed with asphalt as a vapor barrier.The reason that corner had one by wood sheathing was for wind bracing. All corners were diagonally braced with that non structural sheathing in between. If you are going to plaster again don't insulate, but if you are going to use drywall, use a non vapor barrier insulation like unfaced fiberglass and then use a vapor barrier floor to ceiling and corner to corner over the studs. Then drywall. With modern AC I do believe you will want to insulate. That non insulated with double hung windows was very common in the south for the walls to breath. But a cold surface from AC will give you grief without vapor barrier and insulation. Better bone up on old methods!!!
They pulled the brick of that corner of the house to re sheath it with 1x8! OKAY!
It's surprising how little he knows about construction for a "pro"
@@davidribeca1745 I agree this seems very unlikely, but what do you make of the 1939 insulation in that cavity?
I was thinking the same thing. Unfaced insulation should work fine. No vapor barrier, so no worries of trapping in moisture.
@@CybekCusal What is even more surprising is that construction has been going on for 5000 years and you expect him to know every single part of it. Is a modern car mechanic supposed to know how to fix the SPICA fuel injection on a classic Alfa Romeo???
I did some work on a house built in 1928 in South Florida, had the same type of particle board walls with no rot. Had the material tested for asbestos, came back clean.
Must have been the lucky one :) A home from 1928 is almost sure to contain asbestos, lead paint, lead plumbing (possibly lead supply piping) balloon framing with no firestopping installed, and a mixture of knob and tube wiring and newer romex as upgrades over the years have been made. The original electrical service was typically 110 volts, 30 amps with 2 to 4 circuits total.
what aboit 1909 @@Sparky-ww5re
I have the same particle board sheathing on my brick house from the 60's. The walls have fiberglass insulation and two layers of sheetrock, and as far as I can tell that's how it was built. There are no moisture issues that I know of. It has stood this way for 60 years, so I guess it must be fine.
How about using cork board insulation? I've used it in my previous house in Belgium. It's natural and permeable, doesn't rot and insulates very well. Yes, it is more expensive but it might be worth using on this historic house.
That's a sensible European-style solution. Americans do very strange things with their cardboard homes.
Australia is even worse. Or was in the past. Yes, many homes in Australia were built like a 'cardboard box' where weather would be between -2 C in winter & 45 C in summer. Not fun.
He could use cellulose as well
You should look into how straw light clay insulation works with lime plaster. It's a different approach to moisture movement through walls than what you normally talk about. That system allows moisture movement and it works because the straw and clay diffuses moisture rather than allowing "hot spots". Then lime plaster wicks the moisture out of the wall
Thanks for this video Matt, it's so important to consider air infiltration and the amount of humidity that air can carry. It's really the key to durability.
Finally a video that answers my question! I’m doing a garage and living room renovation where we had had mold damage and had to have a company come tear out and treat our house. I’ve been wondering where or even if I should insulate and/or vapor barrier the inner walls from the garage considering there’s no evidence of any insulation or barrier in any of the existing house. From what I’m taking away from this I shouldn’t insulate anything that wasn’t previously insulated or I’ll create that warm to cold pocket and cause the whole mold ordeal again later down the line. If you get the time please comment on my comment and let me know if I got this right 🙏
What a coincidence, I’ve been watching you for couple of years and I’ve recently changed careers from being a carpenter to an energy auditor for low income households and I’m currently in training learning about the healthy home and safety part of the job. We just talked about mold and moisture today and you release this one to bring it full circle😂. Keep up the good work, maybe one day we’ll cross paths
During my building diploma. Insulation was best explained as: with respect to the delta T, moving the dew point into the middle of the insulation where there is no moisture to condense. Rockwool or glasswool combined with sarking the walls and roof works well in Australia. Minimal air movement in the insulation.
@@toddthreess9624 Sarking is common building term in Australia and New Zealand for reflective foil laminate used as a radiant barrier under roof tiles and roof metal. The product is also use on the timber or metal frame in brick veneer construction. We get some hot days!
Omg! I love old homes and cob building/ earth building!😍 Don't know if you have made videos about cob, earth building but I would love to learn!!! 🤗
As I'm beginning to do some Renovations on some homes in the midwest coming from the West Coast where brick homes like these are not in abundance, this information is very helpful
Mold forms in the presence of water. Insulation doesn't cause water formation or water retention. Water in walls comes from temperature differentials that generate condensation.
The reason the particle board has survived is not just because it didn't have insulation, it's because there was never very much temperature difference between the inside and outside (because nobody has ever wanted to heat that much uninsulated house).
The debate should not center on whether insulation should be in the walls, the debate should be on how the building will be used. If you plan on living like a modern family and try to keep that building at 70f plus all year, then condensation will form on that old particle board, (AND it will cost more to heat).
The lack of insulation only caused the lack of desire to heat and therefore reduced the possibility of condensation. But if you plan to heat it, you had better put insulation (and vapor barrier) or you will have rotten walls about the same time you run out of money to heat the place.
Shorter version:
Thinking insulation will CAUSE rot is like thinking marriage CAUSES divorce.
SMH
Where do you suggest the vapor barrier be placed in the assembly for this climate zone? What about cooling?
Especially as the humidity in the building changes.
The current HVAC system is likely oversized, with a LOT of airflow and plenty of ductwork.
Start trying to add in modern systems like a whole-home dehumidifier into that system, or install variable speed equipment, and suddenly you're dropping the humidity to a point where we now have condensation that never happened before, because the house has never been that dry.
While those systems will dry out the house overall, they'll completely change the dynamic between the temp/humidity of the air inside the ducts and the dewpoint in the air outside of the ducts, and there will be all kinds of duct sweating issues...
Insulation can absorb and hold more moisture longer and prevent quick drying leading to… mold.
@@epiphany6 What? Reducing the humidity causes condensation?
@@D2O2 cooling is still only needed for less than 4 months of the year. So Since the majority of Hvac will be heating, then the vapor barrier goes on the inner side of the wall behind the drywall.
Also, when people do run cooling, the temperature difference is not as significant for as long. Running AC will usually bring about a 20-25f degrees or less difference, worst at the hottest part of the day.
Heating runs all through the colder months and even runs more at night. 30 or even 40 -- up to degrees difference every night in the winter (if you run it at 68) is far worse than summer.
Also, interior air is usually more moist due to human occupation. So the hotter and relatively more moist interior heated air in winter is a far bigger problem than higher summer humidity.
Fort worth is not the deep south of Louisiana. Temperature and humidity differences will be less severe in the summer than the winter. Meaning the AC is not as good at cooling or de-humidifying in summer as mother nature is for the other 3 months of the year.
Solid brick wall construction is how all Victorian era houses were made, just like a large percentage of UK houses.
You might get mold on cold walls in near freezing wintertime but nothing rots as it's all breathing. Even the floor joists are all intact.
You can of course insulate with Rockwool, as I will be doing to my house because solid walls are bloody freezing in winter. 🥶
I beg to differ--Our 1898 Queen Anne is not brick, it's sided with wood, interior is lath and plaster.
Not where I live (northern NH). It's almost unheard of to see any brick, except the tops of some foundations. My 1893 is all wood exterior, lathe and plaster inside.
Fellow uk resident who bought a solid block home... how are you going to manage the moisture build up or prevent it?
Wood frame with brick veneer just like this (though usually less cheapish) was already very common in the outgoing 19th century (in the Us).
@@fabriglasYou could use wet-sprayed cellulose
Awesome presentation, very clearly explained. Subscribed!
Very insightful and helpful- thank you!
I appreciate the videos on making decisions with older homes. Thanks
Great video - thanks for the reminder that we need to always keep in mind how an older building was put together and to see what was work well - rather than just making changes without actual consideration.
I'm not an expert, but a lot of newer buildings don't seem to have the longevity in mind when compared to older builds. I'm not sure if it's materials, or design, or both, but I'm amazed at buildings that are 300, 400 or even 500 years old still standing.
Thanks for the nice video. Well, following the same rationale, you can use natural insulation materials with hygroscopic properties like the ones used in building biology and also lime plaster with the same properties as well.
This is a great video. I see so many people trying to remodel old homes in the north 100+ years and trying to go net zero at the same time and you see problems almost immediately sometimes.
So how do I insulate a 150 yr house from inside?? No videos seem to cover that anywhere.
@@sunshinecompany1 usually people gut the interior and install fiberglass batts or punch a bunch of holes and blow in cellulose or fiberglass
@@lifeinchicago9112 some I had to gut and was gonna do fiberglass and poly but some are saying not to so I'm confused more now. I's poly ok on top fiberglass inside balloon framing? 😐
@@sunshinecompany1 if you dont want to gut you can blow in your attic ideally is easiest (just make sure the plaster is strong enough to hold it). And you can pop a million 1" holes at the top of each joist cavity inside and blow in insulation. Not sure if you need poly, we don't do it in Chicago but I know some climates do
@@lifeinchicago9112 i don't get it, if you add batt insulation, you're asking for moisture trouble since there will no longer be air movement to dry the walls.
Well, got bless! Finally Mat is close to the concept of passive microclimate regulation! Clay material is very well to keep the microclimate well.
Some day I want to see Matt stomping some cob.
how can we do a partial thermal insulation of an old house if we want the thermal insulation work to be done gradually and partially, over the course of several years, having a low budget and living only in a small part of a house?
my professional opinion is pack those stud bays with moist soil from the lawn, set up a sprinkler to keep them wet for 48 hours, staple some poly over it, and drywall it in, but then again my profession has nothing to do with home construction
than the question might be why are you giving some professional advice on something, when you stated that's not in your (professional) area.
WIERD
@@mikeoland5909 not gonna lie, your pretty weird, he obviously was just making some random stuff up and messing around lol
@@mikeoland5909 it's funny how people without a subtle sense of humor don't understand subtle humor. WEIRD.
My house is from the 60’s all the exterior walls are solid masonry. This is EXACTLY the idea I had to make my home more comfortable.. One room is significantly colder because three of the walls are solid masonry. Any help would be appreciated
But I should plaster the garden walls, right?
It would not surprise me that the particle board has been treated with something super toxic like arsenic to retard mold growth.
You mean the good stuff
could it have asbetos?
It is cane fiber from sugar cane that has been pressed and washed out completely. It was a waste product until they started making sheathing out of it. Not very strong so you had wood corner bracing with this stuff in between as a brick backer. Later in time they sprayed it with asphalt on one side for water resistance and continued making the bare stuff for sound deadening as sound board. Both products were sold well into the seventies and early eighties. I remember using it in the mid sixties when I first started framing. And yes it is fragile but has no wood in it.
@@randomrazr that "rock wool" batt looked like asbestos to me.....1950s remodel - time fits
@@markpashia7067 That's interesting. When I was a kid and I'm talking back In the 60s, we lived in a WW2 era apartment built as temporary war time housing. We referred to the sheathing back then as 'gyp lap'. It had the asphalt coating you refer to on both sides. It's been too long to remember the manufacturer but I seem to remember that it was USG. No insulation in the walls, asbestos siding and sheetrock interior walls. I had always thought it was a sawdust/ chipboard mix sheathing and I remember seeing a gray colored mastic product on the seams, probably something with asbestos.
Vapor management is extremely climate-specific, and masonry behaves very differently from wood (Matt Risinger knows all this).
GreenBuildingAdvisor and Building Science Corp have excellent article on vapor management. I'm building in climate zone 7 (cold, high desert) and found mold and frost on the inside of my OSB sheathing after just one winter with open-faced rockwool insulation and no drywall. In this climate, vapor is driving from the inside out and condenses on the cold sheathing. There's almost never vapor driving from the outside in because it's rarely cooler inside than out, and when it is, it's hot and DRY outside.
Hi Matt. I'm enjoying and learning from your videos. In one of your videos, you mention an ACH50 of 3 which means an air change every 20 minutes. That is when the house is (de)pressurized to 50Pa. My question is: how often will this house change air under normal conditions (not depressurized using a blower door)? Thanks!
Matt: I was told by my grandfather those bays were cold air returns when these places were built. My house is 120 years old brick row house (east coast) with plaster walls . They used lath to frame everything.. (I'd hate to have been in lath crew with 4000 pounds of 3/8 inch tacks and mountains of lath on a wagon). When my father and I redid the interior walls we used regular 2x4 then added another 1x to fur it out. then ran some of the 4000 pies of lath on 1x blocks on the back of the 2x4 thus creating a 1.5 inch gap between the interior brick and the insulation. I know others who parged their bricks on the inside (interior bricks are salmon bricks) and this created problems with efflorecense. So far so good on my spot...
Agree ! We noted this on a 1911 job we were on ,Balloon framing allowed the air to circulate through all walls and joists , plaster walls maintained warmth with the constant heat with water heaters , worked well with no insulation with the exception of every wall outlet and switch penetration sucked in air around the trim plates
@Matt Risenger - Thank you for this video. We sprayed a thin layer of Dow Froth-Pack foam to air seal diagonal wood sheathing (specifically not to insulated, just air seal). This made the wood sheathing / foam an air barrier. We then insulated that interior air sealed cavity with fiberglass. The opposite side of the sealed wood sheathing is an air gap to brick. That air gap is open at the top of the two story home. The thinking is that the air is allowed to freely circulate outside of this barrier.
Did you put poly on top of insulation inside?
We just finished remodeling my house built in 1918. We replaced the siding and the house had no sheathing. So we decided not to sheath the house. the studs and interior walls were in great shape. I have heard of mold growth with osb sheathing so if it worked for 100 plus years why change it.
now that was v/ smart
I would still insulate. There are organic alternatives that hold moisture. We use it for old farm houses. I would be more worried about vapour barriers than insulation.
Matt did not explain it but here is what I believe may happen. If you put in insulation less heat will leech out to the old particle board. Which means moisture in the air will condense into liquid water droplets earlier because the relative humidity will hit 100% faster in cool air vs warm air. Which is bad. But if you add more material that can hold humidity to "share" the load of the particle board it may not be a problem. May not, as in if you do not do a good job it will probably fail. I would want the moisture to be able to move in and out so I would not put in a vapour barrier. You can always add more ventilation. I really recommend a vapour barrier if the walls are unable to hold a _lot_ of moisture.
A good approach is using a heritage consultant as you say.
Maintaining a breathable envelope through vapour permeable materials such as lime plaster is key in historic buildings.
Why oh why are we not building with these antiquated materials and techniques today??? I have a 100 yr old house in a historic district. Built like a tank. Strong and solid. Wonderfully insulated. The walls are literally a foot thick with brick and stucco, which is masonry. I just do not understand our cheap materials and techniques today. I think it’s so incredibly sad.
I think what you are referring to as "old school particle board" looks like what was called "beaver board." Don't know why the name, but when I was a builder in a small southern town years ago, it was still available at the local lumber yard. Also, insulation question aside, my concern in remodeling an old house like this is the inherent danger of the framing system in the first room. It is balloon framed by running long studs up from the foundation and hanging the floor (or floors) inside the studs, leaving perfect open fire chases in every stud bay. A fire in a basement or lower floor is free to move upward without obstruction. Blocking between the studs at the floor and ceiling level would solve that issue. The second room is platform framed, with a sole plate on top the floor. There are to openings between floor, so a fire is more contained. Just sayin'
I'm not a pro, but I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around particle-board in the 1920's... seems off to me. But the content of this video is spot-on. I wonder - is there a way to vent a wall cavity like you would a roof or cathedral ceiling? Maybe then you could get some insulation in there behind a double wall or something?
Everything was balloon framed back then and vented through the attic. They are going to mess up if they put fire blocking as required by code. Its always best to apply the same building techniques used because they were constructed with full knowledge of that system at the time.
@@danbiss87 thanks...so I shouldn't put 1x4's between framing?... To slow fire spread? 🤔 and HOW can I insulate from inside? Can I use fiberglass and poly then drywall? I need heat without destroying 150 yr farmhouse. 😄
Sheetrock presents more of a breathability/condensation problem than insulation does. Why not consider using plaster and lath like the original? Or a paperless plasterboard?
I was thinking the same thing. they might actually be doing that, but matt might have just not known about it.
Was thinking Savolit plus board for insulation and lime plaster over.
it wasnt rock latch. it looks like plaster board and plaster.
it seems like that might be in other words what he was stating and maybe from more of an experienced aspect
Plaster and lath is outdated and weak. I would definitely try something stronger like paperless plasterboard.
I have been renovating my 1926 balloon frame brick veneer exterior home. I insulated with Rockwool as my exterior sheathing had 30# felt WRB on the exterior side. I love old homes.
An unsealed house that lasted a century and 8 can see it lasting another?!? What a crazy idea! It’s great building a perfectly sealed home, like he usually promotes but one tiny defect that was not caught or one that develops on it own over time or one that has external force damage that no one thinks harmed the building envelope and you have a hidden problem. One that will reveal its self after it’s done extensive damage to property and possible occupants health. Let you homes breath and work with nature, not against it.
100% percent agree. I own a home built in 1910, no insualtion, mostly plaster walls, original poured foundaton with no cracks or leaks, original pine floors, and original wood windows (storms in the outside). The house will probably outlast me.
I'd love some advice about a 1984 house I'm about to acquire. The wood siding / ground clearance weren't maintained properly and the bottom 10" of the vertical siding is rotted. Taking the bottom foot off won't look good so I'm planning on replacing it all. My thought was to put zip sheeting on before the new siding. Am I opening myself up to vapor issues in the walls if I do that?
I came to this video because I wanted to learn something new. Previously, I knew nothing about construction and assumed it was a fairly easy and straight-forward process. I now know differently thanks to your incredibly informative and easy-to-digest language and explanations. I'm looking forward to learning more from you!
Thanks Matt. What about sealing the joints of the diag sheathing, adding rockwool then 0.5 inch drywall? I watch all your videos. Thanks. Be safe working
Great video...update us on the 500 year wall system...I'm torn between Nexcem and the wall roof system over timber frame...
I wonder if you could insulate with rockwool and bite the bullet and install 3-coat plaster and make sure your paint is vapor permeable. No additional “mold food” added and the wall is allowed to dry in either direction. Or even use cellulose insulation to act as a humidity buffer. It would be a really bad idea if you were enclosing a truly high humidity space like a pool or museum.
Cellulose is very commonly used with success here in New England.
Interesting question. Have you discussed with Joe Lstiburek?
Put some woodfibre and lime render on the inside. Vapour-open construction, which should let it continue to dry the way it has been. Or cellulose fill behind mesh in the bays and woodfibre across the front to render onto. 'No insulation, burn more energy' is a terrible idea. If it really is unfixable then it just has to be knocked down and a useful building put up, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case there.
I had it even worse in MN where I had a 1924 church that had brick on the outside and ceramic block on the inside with plaster directly over it. I spent over $1000 one January to keep it at 60 degrees F. The only thing that made sense was to cover the building with insulation. This is something that they are doing in England now, but back then there wasn't much available. In the end I moved to Oregon and let someone else deal with it.
We are doing some work on an old stone house here in NY and faced a similar decision. We had a 14" stone exterior, 2X4 framing, and lathe and plaster walls with no insulation. We ended up replacing the lathe and plaster with rockwool and the GP dense armor. Our architect felt that would be a good substitute for the L&P while adding some insulation, able to tolerate some moisture if that became an issue and keeping the cost in check.
Thats exactly what I would have done, did you do a full veneer plaster over the denseshield or a level 5 tape job? Also you could really use cement board and do a full veneer plaster over that. I'd imagine the cement board would never attract mold.
How has it worked out? Same deal here in Boston
@@vapeurdepisse So far, no issues and have been happy with that decision. The walls are thick stone, we saw no signs of moisture issues when we demo'd the lathe and plaster but wanted to make sure the stone could continue to "breathe" from both sides. Using rockwool insulation directly against the stone and the "GP dense armor" sheetrock allowed this while improving insulation.
The interior side of the stone had previously been pargeted (smoothed over with mortar to create a uniform surface) - this created a uniform space for the Rockwool insulation. It probably would have worked fine if it had not already been pargeted but that might be an extra step to consider and easy enough to do.
Matt, could you do video on protecting homes against hurricane force winds. I really enjoyed your video about roofing, a lot of great information.
the ultimate is concrete block, minimal overhang, lots of hurricane ties, metal roofing with frequent fasteners. ohh, and no big trees within falling distance.
Excellent conversation to have!
Could you install the old lathe wood strips vertically in the wall cavities and then foam board for heat and sound insulation? The lathe provides space to air movement and dryness.
You should insulate with natural (sheep)wool. Just like the other materials in your wall, it absorbs moisture and give it back in dryer times. No moisture barrier please.
Very good information. Thanks.
Spray on foam insulation is vapor tight isn't it... That would prevent both outside and inside vapor from moving through the wall... And... Greenboard is designed for high vapor areas... Would That be another non absorptive surface...
Love all your videos... You explain the thought processes very well... So I'm sure you've thought of these examples already.
I have an old 1947 brick house that I am going to begin expanding next spring... Brick needs to come off and (maybe) not go back on. BUT... I love brick and would like to have a skilled mason do a proper job this time. It was an amateurish job to begin with... So... Questions
Tyvex on outside of sheathing (diagonal ship lap)? Might thicken the foundation a few inches so I can add another layer of studs that I can run new wiring etc through, spray foam, then sheath, then tyvex, then brick...
Can I clean up and reuse the brick, or is that just too time consuming and resulting in an inferior look.
I'm an old house owner and have been restoring it(not renovating it). Thanks for respecting the old technology. In this case, sealing the house to make it a "modern" house would be a mistake. You have just gained my respect Matt.
John in Bethel, Missouri
Very good points man, keep up the good works!
Thank you for saying it! This has been the National Park Service’s stance through their Preservation Briefs; however, no one besides you and Brent are pushing this information to the public.
We consistently see that small issues in how modern building materials are implemented into historic structures have catastrophic long-term consequences.
That material is called homasote. A particle board which has a coating of tar on the exterior. Left undisturbed would likely last another hundred years. I occasionally encountered this product when I renovated old houses In Washington DC. When we removed plaster or drywall we never found mold. Good stuff.
Walls dont just dry from outside in but inside out. A vapor barrier could do damage. If you are up higher its less prone to mold. Lower to the ground the higher the moisture content.
Doing vapor barrier in and around your foundation works wonders too.
Hi Matt, sheet rock is not a modern material, my house was built in 1918 and still has some of the original sheet rock, I believe it was marketed as the poor man's plaster as early as 1910 or so.
there is no insulation or mold behind the walls here also, love your videos by the way! always learning something new from you, keep it up!
You're off by about 40 years. Full panel sized drywall was introduced in the 1950s. I know this, as earlier in my career I worked with finishers who made the transition from being plasterers to drywall finishes in the late 1950s, as plastering quickly died off. Rock lath is a thin drywall type product, that replaced wood and metal plaster lath. It was typically sold as 16" x 48" panels, and nailed with short nails that are similar to roofing nails. Confusing sheetrock and rock lath is a real common thing.
@@kerrykerry5778basically the same product, but different size.
Have an old home from 1920s. I have the ship lap sheathing seen here with balloon framing, no insulation. The wall material i tore off on 2nd floor exterior was Cellotex Lath (cane fiber board with 2 plaster coatings). I am wanting to insulate. Would you recommend the rockwool/thermafiber or a faced/unfaced fiberglass?
For old houses dense pack Cellulose insulation works good enough. However most people hate the huge mess it makes. It really tightens a house up.
1770’s house in New England no sheathing. The clapboard is nailed to the outside of the studs the lathe ont he inside.
My folks had dense pack cellulose. Low. In in1978 and to this day no detectable rot fwiw
Would Paperless drywall be a good choice? Have you used it? It'd be nice to see you talk to the manufacturers about this stuff.
yet another good video!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS MATT
@mattrisinger So if I'm building a new construction home (in a "no building code" area of the country) and choose not to use plastic or any type of modern vapor barrier but still want to insulate... I should just use solid products such as masonry, solid wood for framing, siding and sheathing? In this type of build, what would you recommend as exterior siding (such as board & batten or shiplap/clapboard)? I'm worried about keeping the rain and snow out of the walls.
I plan on constructing with large overhangs, solid wood and true stone masonry for siding for exterior as well as interior (vs drywall) and would like to insulate with natural wool or rockwool in the exterior walls that are framed (obviously not in the stone lol. I'm worried about keeping the rain and snow out of the walls. Thanks!
You don't have to use basic insulation. You can use other spray types that don't absorb water. That seems to be what he is afraid. So to answer your question.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10000000000000000000000000000000% insulate that house.
its not molding because the particle board lets air through.
Here in germany we build houses with the airtight layer (plaster or a foil) on the inside so the warm moist air from inside cant travell though the insulation and condensate on the outside of it.
No water in the wrong place no mold.
Draftsman for civil engeneering and construction foreman ..... not just a keybord warrior
"Old School Particle Board"... I call that "Tentest". (Or Ten-Test) It was used as sheathing before the tar coated/impregnated version came out. Also used as a cheap interior wall surface - in place of wood lath and plaster on "cheap" homes - with thin strips of wood lath covering the seams, and painted. (I'm talking homes built in the late 1800's/early 1900's.) You can still buy it (without the tar coating) today, mostly for soundproofing functions.
Matt, consider using fiberglass faced gypsum... They use it as sheathing on the outside of commercial buildings!
DensGlass
@@mikehermesmeglio yes, and DensArmor from GP. USG and others make similar products. I think commonly used on interior walls of commercial buildings before dry-in. I put it on the walls of my bathrooms and in the basement.
My parents bought a house that was built around early 1900s, they bought it cheap during the market crash around 2010. It's a brick house, and the people prior to us did work to the house, and we couldn't really see under the walls but some parts of the house just feel so drafty. I hate how it feels like I'm wasting alot on my energy bill and I wonder if it has something to do with the attic not being insulated because sometimes it feels like the same ambient temperature as the outside up there.
Hey Matt, my family had a really old house in New York dating back to the Colonial Era, and they actually used horse hair and sheep’s wool.
They used that in the 20s
Please talk about sheeps wool! We want to use it in our old house but our architect says we still have to have a vapor barrier the sheeps wool company says no our house has never had insulation we need to know what to do!
Thanks that was informative
That old sheathing was called Donnacona Board here and used vice drywall sheathing on the interior with wood sheathing on the exterior. Plus rock wool insulation stuffed in but had settled over the years in the 1950s post war mini house I gutted over the past few years here in New Brunswick Canada whilst cautiously wearing my P100/P3 mask lol. Personally, a lot of these old houses should just be torn down, recycled somewhat, and be rebuilt to a net zero standard. The bandage approach isn't going to work and it means a whole lot of tearing down and rebuilding which will cost more but less than what it will cost if not done in the long run.
arent old homes built better though? not as efficient but if they lasted 100 years////
@@randomrazr Agreed 100%. I live in one of the original homes built in 1823 near Hartland NB and added to over the years and its still standing but built way beyond the structural minimum codes that exist today. It has its issues that I'm working away at sorting. Of note it has an exterior framed wall and separate interior framed wall separated by about 6 inches sitting on the rock foundation. One day I'll fill that cavity with some blown in insulation and it'll be more insulated than the modern homes. But right now it takes about 6 to 8 cords of wood to heat in the winter
Yeah I'm curious what would happen if you used mineral wool throughout with it's high perm rating
Been waiting for a video like this. I live in a 1925 brick house and its unbearably cold next to the walls in the winter, so I plan on insulating when I remodel. I'm thinking maybe build a non structural wall next to the brick, sheath with plywood, then rockwool in cavity, then shiplap interior wall, so the wall can still breathe and dry out. However I havent come up with a good solution for preventing insects like ants from setting up shop in the wall.
Spray foam!
The safest way to do it is to insulate from the outside, adding a layer of foam board below the siding. But of course that's expensive because you have to redo the siding. And practically impossible if you have brick.
I tell people in my neighborhood of 100 yr old houses all the time. Builders in the old days knew all about water intrusion and had access to various types of insulation, but knew better than to insulate given they could not really waterproof their houses. Insulate the attic and leave the walls alone. This also speaks to putting back lathe & plaster instead of cheap wallboard. If you can even find someone who knows how to do lathe & plaster....
They didn't know shit. Walls were wavy, ceilings, floors were sagging and it took 4 wood stoves and 12 cords to heat a 1400ft home.
@@augustreil true. People say old houses were built better. I beg to differ Ive been in old houses some of them you see daylight through the walls. 500 bucks a month to heat it also. And that's in tennessee. Imagine if it was in minnesota
@@justinballard7242, Agree 100 %
@@justinballard7242 Strongly agree. We paid $150 / month to heat a 1000sf apartment in SF during the winter. And we only heated it to 62F when it was usually 50-60F outside. It was miserable to live in. I can't imagine living in an old home that hasn't been retrofitted with good insulation in a colder climate.
@@dosadoodle in the house I'm building it'll be a post frame house. With 11 Inch thick walls. R 40 in the walls with very minimal thermal bridging. Conditioned crawlspace with r40 walls and r10 under slab. Conditioned attic with r40 roof. If course all air sealed also
My house is built in 1880. . It is 2 story full basement, brick exterior. It is balloon frame. How they built this is brick 1 inch space , 2x4 stud, 1x6 t&g , plaster interior. No insulation. It’s 2400 sq ft living. Basement is unfinished at the moment but I still heat it.so I have 3600 sq ft to heat . I have a 1996 gas furnace, electric water heater. I live in northern Indiana My electric and gas bill never got above $300. Temp is set at 72 all year round. No drafts in the house.
Last year power went off for 36 hours when the temperature outside was -5 f and windy. (Snow storm) it 18 hours for the temperature inside to drop to 54f .
What are some alternatives to modern drywall in general? I rarely see places with anything other than drywall or paneling.
I don't know the climate, exposure, etc, so I definitely won't give my 2 cents on what I think would be the ideal construction. But I would say that you can look to test any potential build-up against the mould risk through dynamic computer modelling. Here in Europe, I would look to undertake such a model using WUFI software for any non-standard construction to determine, amongst other things, the risk from rain and condensation.
Unfortunately the brick has an R value of about ZERO, my former boss in NW Iowa restored an 1898 2 floors and attic all brick, slate roof townhouse, I remember he said his utility bill was $800 a month on average- he was basically heating and cooling the SKY with that zero R value brick and single pane windows everywhere.
Without insulation you are going to pay thru the nose for heating and cooling, and it will never be comfortable when it's 20 below zero and windy outside, especially with single pane windows!
Very interesting great video as always!
Frankly speaking, these paper boards seem okay and these is a gap between brick wall and paper boards. Since it is just a small area, it is easy to remove all paper boards, replace with glass fiber boards (Hardie Flex Sheet) by fixing and sealing them internally, and then put insulation. The depth is enough for R3 plus insulation.
May be a good place to use gypsum base with veneer plaster using stainless anchors.
I'm in a 1932 lathe and plaster one story home. And I couldn't be happier with my utilities. Midwest, no A/C, 1972 furnace, still solid.
Great video! It blows peoples’ minds that there were smart people in 1920. It is so obvious the builders did a great job. So many here today can’t accept that and are trying to find a way to destroy this home (“oh you have to spray this in, you have to try this..,”)
Thank you for the educational video. We bought a house built in 1900. Unfortunately we have taken some of the plaster walls down already. With this new information we are learning, we are not going to insulate. My question is should we keep the lath? and also what do you think about putting vapor barrier on the lath for insulation before putting sheetrock up.
Is the inspector not forcing you to insulate???
2 things. I think that particle board sheathing was called Temp test? At least here in Canada. As well I have found the bricks from the old days were a lot more “solid” and not as airy as the newer bricks. Maybe that also helps with the water penetration? Love your channel
Looks like Celotex wall sheathing. Was used to cover 2x4 framing before siding was installed. Celotex was not intended to provide structural rigidity to the framing. This was usually done by cutting-in diagonal 1x material in the corners.
And most likely that is at most a sixty year old product, and not part of the original construction.