Best and worst pitchers at preventing stolen bases | Jimmy's Three Things
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Jimmy’s Three Things is a production of Dan Patrick Productions, Jomboy Media and Workhouse Media
0:00 Intro
0:53 Catcher statistics are wrong
7:04 Pitchers that don’t help their catcher
21:29 This catcher has only thrown out one guy
28:01 Fun facts
Injured pitchers Reddit post: / there_are_currently_76...
Phillies strikeouts Reddit post: / the_phillies_struck_ou...
#mlb #baseball #texasrangers #giants #pitching #catching #sports
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1:40 Jimmy I assume you misspoke, but pop time is the time from when the ball hits the catchers mit to the time it reaches 2nd base
Yeah my bad, just misspoke
@@TalkinBaseballcame here to make sure, I knew the king wouldn’t not know this
Pop of glove to pop of glove. ‘Pop time’
I was so about to comment this lol
Best part of Jomboy is that the zoom in on the face could have easily been as intentional as it could have been unintentional and it works either way.
I don't get how pick offs aren't their own stat yet. Lumping them in with the catcher's caught steals makes no sense.
It's even trickier: not all successful pickoffs are caught stealing. It's only an SBA if the runner made any attempt toward the next base.
Fun stat when yadi was playing the cardinals were allowing around 700 stolen bases while every other team was in the thousands just proves how much of effect yadi had on the stolen base game
There is a direct correlation to Yadi retiring and the Cardinals sucking, I won't be debated on this.
@@Carlos-uf8so I agree he did so much as a leader the year after our defensive positioning was terrible and yadi had do to do with that
@@Carlos-uf8so I don't think its possible to reasonably argue that. Easily the best defensive catcher I've ever seen. Mariners fan here.
The spiritual successor to foolish's Rod Barajas video, im here for it
One small correction at 1:33 - pop time is not the time until the catcher releases the throw, it's the time between the "pop" of the pitch hitting the catcher's mitt, and the "pop" of the throw hitting the fielder's glove.
Thank you! I was wondering about that because I would have guessed under a second would be average for catcher catch to catcher release
Something interesting about Webb's game agaisnt the Cardinals on the 23rd is that the 4 stolen bases came from 3 of the 4 slowest players on the Cardinals (Burleson, Pages, and Gorman)
Giants broadcasters were suggesting Webb had a tell the Cardinals were using to time the steals
Yeah, consistency
This isn't the loudest issue in Cubs land because the bullpen exists, but really you could pick about seven things that are wrong with this team and front office. The really horrible thing about that Amaya montage is that most of the throws don't even get to second, and if they do they are so wide we have no shot.
Jimmy apologies if you did this and I missed it. Would love to see data about what counts batters most frequently use a timeout in, and if timeouts actually help the hitter perform better
That's not what pop time is. 2 seconds to transfer from glove to hand would be garbage. Pop time is the time it takes from the pitch "popping" in the glove of the catcher to the fielder receiving the ball. So 1.86 seconds from the moment Bailey receives the pitch to the 2b/ss receiving the throw. That's good. Slightly under 2 seconds to transfer, garbage. Slightly under 2 seconds to the fielder getting the ball to put the tag on, amazing.
Jimmy! Watch Foolish Baseball's video "The Catcher Who Couldn't Throw" for more of a deep dive into this very thing!!
I’d love to see a contrasting video that takes a deeper dive into the current best catchers. More specifically if it included which metrics/data points actually make a difference (such as 1 leg vs 2 leg down, pop time…etc), and how those metrics compare to some of the all time best catchers stats.
When I saw this video I knew the Cubs would be the talk of it it’s been a season
As giants fan this video is painful but I’m really informative and I’ve learned a lot about my team so I’m thankful for it too.
Thankfully, the Giants look to have been working on it based on the last couple games. Randy Rodriguez has been getting down to under 1.2s unload. Spencer Howard pretty dang quick from the stretch too.
Patty Bailey definitely is above average at caught stealing but man does he get no help
@@mnguyen313 true and they are attempting it seems to try at least to steals more bases themselves. The real question is if Webb will change.
@@jackgreenway4679Man tonight was a good game controlling the baserunners. Pickoffs, backpicks, less walks.
@@mnguyen313 they might have really turned the corner on that to some degree it will be interesting to see how well Hicks does with it tomorrow and when Webb pitches next.
Nailed it Jimmy! MORE OF THIS STUFF! PLEASE
IIRC college baseball stats has the failed pickoff so that the stolen base is not counted against the catcher. The classic example: pitcher throws to first, runner gets caught and instead heads to second (thus making it a stolen base attempt). The first baseman throws to second but the runner beats it out. It makes perfect sense too. On a PO/CS play (similar to above, but the first baseman gets the runner 3-6), that CS does not get credited to the catcher. Thus it follows that a failed pickoff should not get charged to the catcher.
The trading in framing and offense for base catching is such a "Baseball Always Adapts" moment.
The breakdown on Webb vs Lorenzen is pretty interesting honestly
Ya this is super interesting, mainly how they count stolen bases, it seems like the stolen bases and catchers indifference is a fine line sometimes
The broadcasters have suggested that a lot of the Giants pitchers have some sort of tell that different teams have picked up on. Some of them just have much slower deliveries too.
The Cardinals saw something specific in Webb’s delivery, some big dude got his first career steal off of him.
Yes Jimmy's Three Things is back!
I've been on a crusade over this for the last two seasons. It's as simple as seeing the difference between top and bottom pop times and seeing it isn't that large. Then seeing the difference between a big/small leadoff and pitcher time to plate being WAY larger. And I'm shocked more people didn't realize this sooner.
Great video. The clip of Amaya showed a lot of off-speed pitches on those steals. How much does that matter?
In decades of watching MLB games, I never knew that catchers got credit for almost any caught stealing even when the pitcher gets the runner while the catcher does squat in his squat!
I recently rewatched the Foolish Baseball video on Rod Barajas' 2012 season with the Pirates which is considered one of the worst defensive seasons by a catcher (this was in part because he replaced you on a recent episode of RefGuess). In that video, from 2020 mind you, he himself takes note that Barajas is credited for caught stealings despite never touching the ball in those plays as the pitcher initiated a pickoff the runner was caught in. So this misattribution has been an issue for a while.
What I find interesting though is that Bailey goes a lot further in his analysis in that video and lays blame mostly on the pirates pitching staff which was rather slow in getting the ball to Barajas in the first place. With the rather small gap between an average pop time and the worst pop time in baseball, this was a major factor.
What I am trying to say is that while pop time is an important factor, caught stealings involve a whole lot more players than just the catcher and only giving the catcher credit or blame for steals allowed is not the right way to go. That is unless you see big mechanical issues with their execution, as you highlighted on sme catchers in this video.
Love your shows, Jimmy - did you start thinking of this topic due to all the news about the NBA stat padding? Fascinating stuff
Jimmy and anyone who is interested in this needs to watch “The catcher who couldn’t throw baseball bits” from foolish baseball. A video on 2012 Rod Barajas and this exact topic
That close up at the start is certainly something lmao
Pop time is started when pop of the catchers glove and ends when its caught at 2nd base. Release/exchange time is pop of catchers glove to the time they release the ball.
Fascinating analysis.
I wonder if over sliding should still count if the the tag was close. You could argue that the runner would have had to slow down or start sliding earlier to not overslide. Or that the catcher's pop time forced the runner to make mistakes.
Although, this metric could be a bit subjective and possibly skew the numbers. It could be useful to track though.
Super interesting stuff for Webb. As a Giants fan, I've been waiting for some kind of an explanation. It's not just Webb, it's the whole staff. Thanks Jimmy!
I'd also be curious if it has anything to do with slow deliveries or number of pick off attempts. I feel like the giants don't make any (especially the relievers). Might be fodder for a future episode
@@WhatShouldMyHandleBThey did quite a lot tonight! And I was surprised that a couple of them had very quick moves to first. And how about that Tyler Rogers inside move to get Happ picked off?? Good stuff
Want to point out that the same reasoning you applied to Webb not helping his catcher would also apply to Amaya since they also only have 2 pickoffs + 1 CS. Basically runners know they can lead off with impunity.
Please send this to Webb and the Giants. I would consider it a personal favor.
What about factoring in how frequently they use slide steps as well as how much time each pitchers delivery takes. Like do they have a high drawn out leg kick and what not
My Road to the Show catcher hasn’t allowed a stolen base yet in 2027
Cubs fan here. We are well aware of our catcher problems…
I wanna see a comparison of pitcher elbow injuries this far into the season before and after the pitch clock rule changes
These are so good
Big Cub Land boy here, yes our catchers SUCK. We miss Wilson tremendously
I’m surprised the white Sox weren’t brought up in the catching conversation I thought they couldn’t throw anyone out
foolish has a video explaining that catchers with terrible SB/CS ratios could also be affected by the pitchers pop themselves, even when the catcher has a decent pop time. ie not the catchers fault
That's interesting.
Yo, do baseball clubs even run the pitchout play anymore?
I haven't seen it in years.
Another thing I haven't seen very often is a runner getting thrown out on an off speed pitch.
Logan Webb throws his 2-seam regularly but putting him aside the trend in baseball has been towards the slider. Splitters and change-ups still occupy a decent percentage of the typical arsenal - SO it leads me to wonder which teams leave pitch selection up to the pitcher - catcher - and which teams give the manager the ultimate say in the sequence.
hmmmm.....
20:40 actually it’s 40% because it needs to be 8/(8+32) because you gotta get the total attempts
Holy crap, Billy Beane needs to hire you....
Does it currently count against the catcher if the runner steals and makes it when the pitcher goes to pick off?
Having syndergaard on the dodgers last year made it seem like will smith couldn't throw anyone out. He was so bad at holding runners.
Could we know the steals allowed/thrown out/attempted? I want to know which pitchers or catchers are being run on the most and failing and which aren’t being run on at all. Also who’s overcoming the runners going and throwing out the most
Went into this thinking that the pitching staff was going to fuck Baileys chance at a Gold Glove but honestly the other Giants catchers combined having more steals on them when hes started over 2/3 of the games is actually kind of impressive lol
There needs to be some way to time a pitcher from the start of his delivery to the catcher catching the ball.
you also need stolen bases per runner. guys with more innings are going to have more stolen bases. normalize for per innings pitched maybe or per runner or something.
I'm pretty lay when it comes to these rules minutia, but isn't there already a "fielder's indifference" stat? Would it be a stretch to apply that to pitchers who make no attempt to hold runners?
How do they assign blame to the pitcher or catcher with consistency if they were to crack down on the stolen base stats?
maybe teams steal more against ground ball machines like Webb because they figure the percentages of getting caught stealing instead of getting double played are okay. I don't know how someone would figure that out though
Can you check out cal reigh i feel he has signs toward his pitcher and has good arm
Don't try stealing on Big Dumper 😆
What about hitters that get called third strikes the most that were actually balls. Eddy Julien had terrible luck of it which ultimately led to his demotion
My takeaway is that logans are bad at throwing out runners.
ofc ur doing trevino
"jake licks dirt.mp4"
Yeah we're gonna need to see that video Jimmy
Seems to me like you could call this the Logan's? Run rule.
In high school I was working on this
How could you listen to this as a podcast?
Pop time is glove to glove no? Not catch and release. I though "pop" referred to the ball hitting catchers mit and then again when it hits 2nd basemans glove
Logan Webb watching this like 👁️👄👁️
"Stats That Exist, And Might Matter"
If SBA = 40 and CS=13, then shouldn’t CS% = 13/53 and not 13/40?
Also Treviño=Rod Barajas
5:44 Why would you not count this one? Because it seems like the back runner is giving himself up on purpose? Still a CS imo. If I get into the batting box and make no effort to swing whatsoever and the pitcher throws 3 pitches right down the middle its still a K...
Wrigleyville*
Rod Barajas, eat your heart out
why are my mariners so bad on the road ):
Trevi threw out 2 guys out of like 35 is the real stat. He’s bad at his job
Wow
Somebody tell Michael K. He repeats the "Trevino was throwing out 35% of baserunners before the Red Sox series" BS almost every game. He's such a dunce !
Is it me or is Jimmy starting to look like Silent Bob?
Turner is shockingly slow for a professional athlete lol
I knew my Giants were dogshit
To be so good at excel but not know how to check how many rows of data he he working with is hella sus
As a cubs fan… they are BAD
You looks so cute. Like a Welsh corgie
How TF can we have all this data and technology but can’t determine if a pitcher’s sticky stuff is legal or illegal?
Yan Gomez isn’t any better
I have a feeling most stolen bases are the pitcher’s fault. If they taught from a young age ways to get the ball to the plate as quick as possible catchers could show off a little more. Yeah some catchers are slow on their pop and don’t have great arms but that’s few and far between at the MLB level. Pitchers suck, they’re mental patients. U can’t say one word to them they don’t want to hear. They’re like Wide Receivers
Theirs 60 catchers in the MLB, he's ranked 67th. He's so bad they think theirs 7 random guys in the stands on any given night that could outperform him. LMAO
The Cubs spent 230 mil to not have a catcher
They also don't have a 3rd baseman or closer. Let me say that again 230 MILLION to not have serviceable players at those spots. The cubs are so bad we aren't even making a big deal about what jomboy is saying about Amaya he is just bad and doesn't belong he skipped triple a because the cubs had no other options. It's embarrassing.
We don't have a bullpen at all, they've cost us 20 games this season. Our catchers stink, but that isn't why we keep losing 1-run games.
you should be running a college course at an ivy league university. this was wild 😂