Sartre: "Hell is other people" EXPLAINED | Philosophy & Psychoanalysis
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- In this video I explain what Sartre's quote: "Hell is other people" means and associating it to his phenomenological concepts of: The Other & The Look with reference to Freudian // Lacanian psychoanalysis
#Sartre #Philosophy
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"I am not who you think I am;
I am not who I think I am;
I am who I think you think I am.”
- - - Charles Cooley
This is brilliant.
I always hated this quote.💀 we are who we believe ourselves to be, if anything at all.
@@user-fb6yp8xt5t ignoring how much stock we put into what people will perceive us as is foolish.
@@jamuraisack5503 that has zero to do with what we are.
@@jamuraisack5503 ignoring the fact that the guy had a lazy eye and if he didn't he wouldnt have said this is foolish.
The Breakfast Club is just No Exit with a happy ending.
Along with one of the most memorable outros in cinematic history.
accurate
My main issue with Sartre (and most of his contemporaries) is that they take a large amount of words to present ideas that really should not need them and that they seem to recycle existing concepts but use their own 'unique' terms for them, so any continuity of the field is heavily fractured for a person attempting to read through from an earlier date to a later one.
Postmodernist wankers like Baudrillard and Foucault are the worst/best examples of this.
What particular play or novel of Sartes do you think of? If it is for his purely philosophical writings it's because French usually needs particular turns of phrase and specifics words to be precise. If he was German he would have use fewer words.
@@Randomness65535 Basically, they're brilliant but pretentious.
@@trorisk also, because their musings were all focused on perception, their works would be extremely individualistic. It's a result of perception being exclusive to oneself.
On the contrary existentialism is not based on perception but on action. Sartre's whole philosophy, like Heidegger, is to say that the Human is condemned to be free. And it is his actions that define who he is. Even not acting is a free choice. To say that Sartre is focused on perception is a total counter-sense.
We can never achieve true self-autonomy because, in short...
*_We live in a society_*
which brings me to my other favorite quote "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
"Sartre once said that hell is being trapped in a room with your fiends"
"Yeah, but all his mates were French"
Smeg head.
Racism isn't cool, just because English television condones it.
Hell is within our own self.
It also should be remembered that our lives in the end will be known from the gaze of The Other, this also makes our non existence hell. Instead of being-in-itself (when we are alive and not followers of bad faith) we will be being-in-nothingness after we are gone.
Existentialists focus on the life which we live rather the life after death( if at all there is life) having a dream or desire to live the way we want leads to fancy free attitude .that is we don't always be in a position to live in conciousness of the other. Bro this is just my point of you . But I would always be happy to know more ideas .
@@ThoughtsonThinking Imagine someone who doesn't know philosophy would read this comment. He couldn't understand a word
😂😂😂
@@ThoughtsonThinking I don´t fear non existence. When you don´t exist you can´t feel anything and if you can´t feel anything you can´t feel pain, either. What´s wrong about nothing? Nothing also means nothing unpleasant.
Satre came up with this after a middle school dance
For real?
Lol 😂
Hell is social media.
You will like my new video that will be up in a few hours
Thoughts on Thinking sounds great!
True
I never knew about or read JPS, but I’ve seen the quote before & always knew instinctively what was meant by it, or at least how I took it. Just spend a month by yourself & then go around others after that. You will notice how the forces move insidiously upon you. You get so used to it, being around others, that it becomes unnoticeable.
Wow, I didn't realize anyone else felt like this. And nowadays with screens that watch you back, not even being alone is an escape from the watching eye. Which is yet another big reason why is feels so great and different to be alone on a walk in the woods or the mountains.. away from people and screens
"Hell is Jean Paul Sartre" -Other People
This was very informative, thank you.
So much philosophy is just intellectualised misery, as experienced by sensitive souls 🧐
If this quote is not underated, than its misunderstood.
Beautiful comment. I frequently notice myself escaping from dealing with my neurotic psychology to philosophy (mostly ontological or existential), just in order to deny the fact that every emotional or psychic disorder I have is self-created and not life‘s fault.
@@souljacem I can relate to the existential crisis, but I feel I am learning to be positive, to be mindful and to be grateful, and it have been wonderful
Boyson THM Positive Psychology is always a good idea. If one cannot bear it or reacts with antipathy against it, then one can face it by stop resisting positivity. In intellectual endeavors, cynicism can become one of the greatest enemies, because of its ungrateful and arrogant influence on the intellect... It‘s so sad actually, especially when a lot of areas in your life depend on your intellectual functioning.
P.S. I‘m really glad to hear you‘re doing better. I hope I‘ll get out of my neurotic mess aswell.
Life itself is just intellectualised misery
If you've seen The Good Place and didn't know it was literally based on this play, then now you do. The Good Place is amazing, too.
Hell is wanting from the other what one cannot give oneself-because the other is unable to experience what we need or "want" they will fail us. We will then be left tormented and confused with anger or guilt. The resolution lies in accepting the grief we all live with that the other cannot give us what we need but we must bring to ourselves the capacity to care and nurture ourselves without asking the other the confirm validate or legitimize our experience. This a life long struggle which most never undertake or are even aware of-they suffer in silence and despair or spend their lives looking for the other who will give them what they so tragically cannot give themselves.
The meaning of Sartre's phrase 'Hell is other people' is that other people choose their own meanings, and in doing so, they choose their own problems. Thus, every person has problems which correspond to his or her own sense of meaning.
"Were you listening to the Dude's story, Donnie?"
But there is no choice. There is no self and no choosing.
Philosophizer What is there then?
@@DOUBLE0SEVUN You are a preprogrammed mobile meat computer. The self is an illusion.
@@mcgee227
The self is an illusion? who is experiencing this illusion?
There is choice. Yes we're computers. We think(compute) and chose. The idea of "free will" used in most debates is nonsensical. We, computers, have thoughts & desires, and we *chose* to do things accordingly. In that sense, we're free, in our humanness.
I believe he saw the gaze as an oppressive force to an artist or unique individual. Even if the gaze can have pro social benefits, it still restricts that absolute autonomy that he sought after. The gaze is the evolutionary tyrant and the constant ruler. Man can never truly be genuine without first ridding himself of the judgment of others.
WW I have wondered if Foucalt got his ideas about "The gaze" from Sartre.
But are the others really judging the individual or is this only (or mostly) the perception of the individual?
Take a speaker with stage fright, in a room with mostly friendly people known to the speaker. The stage fright emerges regardless of the others.
Then your last line could be "man can never be genuine without ridding himself of the perception that others are judging him" or something like that.
To be sure, there is some judging by others going on, but mostly I think people don't care unless it affects them monetarily or in terms of class (group) power. Mostly people are concerned with themselves. These structures are erected as the group becomes larger, and are an effect of the group size increase: in this way, the structures are fairly neutral to begin with. Then the efficiency becomes colored by this gaze perception. The gaze affects the individual and is also a relational perspective, but it pivots on ego and is fixed by tweaking the identity (imo). Nationalism is group identity without ego, the ego is supplied by the individual.
What the gaze tends to do is, thru fear, make the ego and identity more singular and rigid. To overcome stage fright the individual must open themselves by diffusing this "me against them".
This is also the problem of the artist, like you said. To restore perception, the ego must be diminished. Try to define "human" and it turns out to be another suitcase word.
What an explanation! I was thinking the same, and I was relating a lot in that kind of sense. Maybe including me, people's gaze or let me say most of people's gaze seem to contain more oppressiveness or shall I call it evil, rather than kindness.
@@aydinahmadli7005 I believe that the gaze isn't just evil. I believe it is designed as a prosocial force to keep people intact. The most likely problem is that the gaze changes within the context of social movements. The artist or the man on the outside is always an enemy of the gaze.
And then There’s Diogenes who constantly defied that “Gaze”.
That the other is hell makes perfect sense IF; one understands that we never leave the unconscious wishes and demands of the infant we once were-the infant has no self and thus needs the other to confirm and facilitate the development of a self. This process of building a self is an organic and biological process dependent initially on the nurturance of the other and then the separation from the other into a self that is able to build the self through out the rest of life-Hell is when we go on looking for the other to provide what we did not get as an infant and continue to look for as an adult-Only as we recognize that in many ways we are still tied to the wishes of our infant self and begin to the process of tolerating, accepting and managing their demands (the infant demands) are we able to slowly step away from demanding the other to satisfy those demands and allow those infant demands to be neutralized-momentarily internally do we then find the steps to becoming more of who we really are as an independent self-this is a life long process and we never fully succeed from liberating ourselves from the demands of infant self but we can better manage and accept them thus allowing ourselves to live more fully from our authentic self.
If hell is other people, it is more so in this sense: Inasmuch as your past bad acts (bad in your own view) were witnessed or even known of by other people, these bad acts are preserved in memory as part of your history. Your history is, as it were, set in stone, an accomplished and unalterable set of facts. You therefore cannot escape and continue to be tormented by these acts, as though you were being perpetually punished for them. It seems, however, that the other is not needed. As long as you have a memory of the bad acts performed in a world which contained others capable of judging you, you are in the hell that is your consciousness. It is even worse if you continue to be aware of those other people who also know of your past "badness" and insofar as you have a representation of them in your mental states (which is all you actually had to begin with) you should have all you need to be in a hell made by you and the others together, but preserved (or not), considered (or not) only by you.
I would agree but you have left out an important step that we take with bad acts that we cannot psychologically accept-we project them onto other people who then create in us-as we wish or try to make them change the hell that we have been afraid to confront via our "bad acts". Thanks for your comment
People don't have to torment me I torment myself through the reflections of people that are in my head. I like what you said mate.
Just found your channel, and glad I did. Subscribed. I found this video to be a very informative and cohesive explanation of one of Sartre's most talked about ideas. Makes me want to read him, NOW!
So, Sartre wrote the pilot for The Good Place?
Ming Mongo i think the writers had already confirmed that show was inspired by Sartre. Correct me if Im wrong.
@@kimothemo I'm sure they had it in mind.
This made my day😂
you should check out the half of it :D
Not trying to be a jerk, but maybe this idea of the look comes from how he was always stared at for his defect in the eye. Maybe he never felt confortable around other people and perhaps even when close to a mirror because people always looked at his defective eye, which wasn`t even the eye he saw with. After thinking about that, he realised that everyone has a "defect" which gets stared at by other people and that takes away the natural will to act in an uninhibited manner.
I think your on to something here. Its almost poetic isn't it? BECAUSE he has a EYE defect, he could SEE a aspact of society we are all overlooking.
Very true BUT I think Lacan at the time might have influenced him on this concept but that reality was probably also in the mix at the time, it makes complete sense.
And maybe he felt self-conscious and uncomfortable with himself which led him to develop this mindset and which made him feel like people are staring at him even when he's alone
Wonky Eye-Wonky Philosophy?
I agree. He experienced this on a greater scale than the rest of us - but every day we step into society, we are feeling it! whether detectable or not.
You can only be yourself by yourself.
So true!
I act like the person who I’m talking to who I think that person wants me to be
Someone walked in on Satre when he was browsing the Sears catalogue.
Hell is other people, but heaven is too
Finnegan McBride judgement vs
acceptance
Or hate versus love; lies versus truth
Damn, I still don't get it.
I read his wiki. If it's correct, the guy was a degenerate soviet sympathizer, at best. Apparently drafted into the French military, captured by the Nazis, and yet managed to write a stage play while a prisoner of war. Perhaps he should have toured and remained in one of the many gulags employed by Stalin. One thing about him does catch my eye, however. He doth bear a rather striking resemblance to the residents described in Lovecraft's "The Shadow over Innsmouth."
In Zen, the viewing of the self and the Universe in the third person is the whole point. No self, Just this is it, Universe as it is.
thanks for adding that bit of the ending about his personal life really added to the video :)
I just heard this term recently and assumed it meant that most people are stupid, bad tempered, selfish, deceitful, judgmental, wastes of space that I would rather not be around. Which frankly is how I see the overwhelming majority of people.
Couldn’t this have been explained more easily?
Stop worrying about what other people think.
I love your comment and I have always believed that ideas can be explained simply by people who truly grasp them.
I think about my ego and how to get rid of it, so the opinion of others, real or imagined does not matter to me.
@Alexandra Ledesman Hegel makes a good point about this.
That’s literally not what Sartre is explaining by the look whatsoever
Hell is having to read Dante's Divine Comedy all the way through.
I was thinking of doing that but then backed out... probably a good choice 😂
Blasphemy. Absolute blasphemy.
I've got a large form version of it. Made it through Inferno and glazed over a page into Purgatory.
@@CodenameRockerika I imagine Dante was in mind when it was said that few make it to paradise.
The mediums have virtualized in a way that today, the other doesn't even need to be there to make the self escape.
Great video! Just one thing, when you say at the end that Sartre doesn’t mention how public pressure can result in good. But I don’t think Sartre will care if an act is good or not, the fact that it is due to public pressure in it self is bad faith and is inauthentic. I don’t reckon Sartre would care if anything was either good or bad if it had come from the choice of radical freedom, (of course to a certain level as Beauvoir points out). So when Sartre doesn’t mention any good aspects of public pressure is due to it leading to be completely inauthentic. I may have gotten it wrong, but lemme know!
This makes sense….Nothing is less welcomed then inauthentic gestures by people who feel pressure to act a certain way
The Good Place is like an attempt to contradict No Exit
The inner social circle should probably be defined as “Where you feel safe from condemnation”.
dude your channel boomin lately
9:12 , actually that's also exactly one of sartre's points. You can see that the judgement of the other might be a good thing in terms of morality, but in the context of sartre's Existentialism "morality/ethics" can also be a form of bad faith
This was great. Clarified the other. Thanks. Identified the source of anxiety. I do agree with him though. You should be one with yourself.
I wonder if Waiting for Godot is a play/twist on No exit?
I think you're making an error here. "Guilt" does not exist without "Others". Let me explain: there are three stages in internalizing morals. The first is when those imposing the morals are physically there. The second is when there is a possibility that those imposing the morals can appear (like a kid being afraid he's caught). The third is when those imposing the morals are *NOT* there. At that stage we have internalized the morals and even behave accordingly when we cannot be corrected or punished.
Shame and guilt only exist when there are others - or the images of others in our heads - punish us. They are emotions (like pride and honor) that only have a significance when there are others - either physically or mentally. They bear no meaning when we are alone, because there are no others to measure ourselves against or others to judge us. Morals in itself have no meaning at all when we're alone - for they lack their basic function: to channel and control human behavior in a society.
Consequently, we can conclude that man can only be free when there are no others. Freedom only exists when expressed in terms of absence of control by "the others". Taken that concept to its absolute conclusion means "absence of control by *ANYONE".*
4:33
That's what I discovered myself and do if I got IT rigth.
As to see oneself from the eyes of someone totally strange to you. Rigth?
IT rose from my doubt to myself as a check to not become to full of myself
I hope you do a video on max stirner one day
Oh I will!
Happiness is not liveable that is true, but Nietzsche still believed in the overman; a fixated ideal that stirner would’ve called a phantasm
Great video, loved your personal comment at the end. I‘d really appreciate to listen to your content on Apple Podcast (or any other of the great services)
I wonder if it it internalizing the other’s look is inescapable or if the gradual accumulation of all of the looks of all of the others creates a person’s self concept.
Hell is watching Bucky Larson on repeat forever.
Ppl are like a stampede of horses that just trounce across my psyche at all times. Their dull, banal incessant bullshit, the shit they think and spout, it causes me so much depression to the point of panic. Ppl are drunk on so many of the worst aspects of humanity. Banality is certainly one that always jumps to mind.
What can we do?
😬
This video knots my mind...as philosophy mostly does. But still fascinating.
moral of the story: he was an introvert
Satre certainly took a lot of explanation just to say "other people make me self-conscious". And does a narcissist access this self-consciousness? Or is it not hell for them because they basically like the image of themselves?
surely you could answer that being a narcissist
how do i trust a guy who can't even look me in the eyes straight
Streets, Sheets. Sartre was ahead of the game.
I see what you did there hahaha
If that’s your basis of trust… good luck in life ❤
The dude from Heaven’s Gate gazed into my soul n didn’t blink or flinch once while making his broadcast … 😐
Fantastic content. Looking forward to watching this channel grow.
As a side note - I once heard you reference yourself being a musician, and I'm presuming the intro melody to this channel may be one of your own. I would love to have a link to your more artistically expressive side if that becomes available!
flickerrate.bandcamp.com/
So your self is everything and everything is your self 🤷♂️ I'd have never made it through one of his books. I'll take it from there n figure it out 😁
u should watch the kdrama Strangers from hell ( hell is other people) it shows so well what it means
Hey if you've taken an interest in Satre I would suggest that you check out Beauvoir's ethics of ambiguity sometime. While I don't agree with it, it's interesting to see how she makes an existencial case for the pursuit of social justice. I personally think that she uses veiled language to sneak in a metaphysical basis for the imparative to oppose opression, while defining oppression in such vague terms that it could be applied to any interpersonal interference. That's just my take though. I'd be interested to hear yours if the subject strikes your fancy.
There's no explanation needed. I have real life experience.
Ritwika Pal that got me .
He was not fond of himself…and I don’t blame him.
What did Sartre say about Freud's unconscious?
Isn't "the look" the exact same thing of "metacognition"?
“Perhaps hell is Sartres theories”
very possible haha
Actually, hell is low levels of serotonin
So its all about constructing the ideal superego which will interrupt the self as one wants to be interpereted, its like Crowley said about sommonign a guardian angel
Why do people keep on saying "unknown to them"? They know the place is Hell, and that they are to be punished. "Where are the instruments of torture?" Is one of the first questions Garcin asks.
I see a parallel between the idea of the other acting as a catalyst to self reflection or consciousness and the idea which Jordan Peterson describes in the Fall in the garden of Eden in the Biblical creation myth, in which Eve made Adam self conscious. The consequences where catastrophic which aligns with Sartre's insistence on "Hell is other people", but it can also serve, as you mentioned, as a mechanism of regulation.
Thank you for the video! It is very informative.
This man’s eyes are scarier than anything else he’s ever done.
Beginning to understand
Daria: On second thought, Hell is myself.
No exit is an excellent play.
I don't get it. How does Sartre explain that we want to look appealing in the other's eyes? I mean, he cannot possibly say that this is just "natural" and in our human nature so-to-say, because he denies the existence of a predetermined human nature as existence comes before essence.
People over emphasize your good take on the "other" we see this from priests abusing minors to Communist China. Most likely you haven't really felt "the look" yourself and for that be grateful. I watch women being harassed on the street videos too for perspective. For an easier analogy consider predation in the wild. You're not just an object you're lunch.
Ha! Just realized that Sartre was writting in first person as a subatomic particle, without knowing it. Jean Paul Sartre's cats it is.
Did Sartre ever pull from Jung’s work ?
Do you mean to say that the other is a check on the self? if that is so isnt the 'other' restrictive and in a sense the root cause of all conflicts- so it will be a personal/self hell right?
Through the Spirit
Seven Spirits of Darkness, Seven Spirits of Light.
Spirits of Darkness= 1. Hatred, 2. Mistrust, 3. Despair, 4. Evil, 5. Incompetence, 6. Illiteracy and 7. Stupidity. Misery follows malignity and consumes the heart in Envy. The disunity of being angry engulfs the heart in apathy and jealousy. The despondency within hates adversity forces animosity to turn into hostility. The inequity of iniquity surrounds the spirit with enmity, causing spiritual poverty. The world's anomie turns egocentricity into the savagery of debauchery, that is the criminality of immorality.
Spirits of Light= 1. Fortitude, 2. Council, 3. Might, 4. Understanding, 5. Reverence, 6. Knowledge and 7. Wisdom. The spirits Signet rests within the mirror of the hearts Tent to remove hatreds blight. Allowing love to inhabit and your soul will inherit a brighter future but first take a moment to Lament of the hatred and love will Delight. In every Spirits heart there is a leader that will Comfort others and take away their plight. Pray and your fire will Lite giving warmth to every neighbor as you mentor until their hearts ignite. With age Spirits grow gentler and every Spirit of love is a leader that understands every lecture provides the Spirits heart with moisture, that allows loves geyser to explain Yeshua's measure.Take a hint always remember your hearts intent and let love be your spirits imprint. Knowing that in everything we say do and represent for the mistakes we are unable to prevent please always remember to repent. The beauty of the birds singing together shares music from a great height. If sadness dwells the rainbow parrot sings the beauty of love to our creator. Therefore let the beauty of Truth guide your steps and you will be a conqueror. Stand with long-suffering, mercy, peace, wisdom, faith and benevolence and you will be an overcomer of Light.
By: Humidity/David Waldrop author of the book Psalms of humidity written for the purpose of fixing the broken world we live Within. Not meant for children there are two halves of the book. the first half is at Amazon Barnes & Noble and ebook because of its potency and the second half of the book is on Facebook also called Psalms of humidity.
czcams.com/video/ptntjPZ4KKE/video.html
Hell is other people's CHILDREN!!!!!!!!
I do like to entertain this depiction of hell sited from 'No Exit'.
And assuming their to be any form of consciousness after life, in my opinion through my own philosophical/metaphorical journeys this makes the most logical sense of it. I wouldn't necessarily say that it IS hell, but depending on what you have done in your life it could be "hell" or it could be "heaven"....which in that way sounds weird but assuming you're viewing yourself from as literal and precisely as from another observer and not as yourself, if you did good things you may in ways fall in love, or other similarly strong positively charged reactions. And sense you would be as an outsider (idk about if it would be like as another person in the fles or more like a viewer of a movie watching a person and his encounters, and personal time. a bit like a stalker lol)
...but to correlate the heaven side to a reference to 'Dante's Inferno' as in heaven as a tiered sort of thing, heaven could be more "heavenly" if you have been more good; and from an outsider you would see "you" anything from a good friend to a soul mate....all for lack of better analogies, I'm actuall new to Sartre so these are fresh thoughts added upon old ones so don't burn me for it lol.
I would hope especially for myself given this is the case; that it is from the viewpoint as far removed as you as possible and with no possible ability to realize it is yourself, and from either an objective viewpoint (like ideological/philosophical-wise) or at least someone with not the same "mind" as for people chronically depressed with profound self-hatred/loathing will be a bit f***ed no matter how good they were....a continuation of their first existence. Lol.....
Oh but on the logical reasoning behind this.
Basically if your soul/consciousness/whathaveyou continues after your body rots then, isnt that something like exactly what you think would do, and in some ways the only thing you could do? Logically speaking probably not from an outer viewpoint, as you have never seen you like that. But that scares me so I don't want to think that lmao.
Which eye?
hell is other people korean seires brought me here 😁
When I die, nobody better do this to my face. like on the thumbnail
Given his personal history that you related here, I feel the entirety of Sartre's philosophy is highly suspect and best dismissed as its foundations are fundamentally flawed.
Agreed, not a big fan of Sartre as it is especially given his personal interests.
6:41 He definitely was not a liberal, he was pretty openly Marxist in his political activism and regularly visited Che Guevera
Really, I didn't know he visited Che Guevara, thanks for telling me!
Thoughts on Thinking He was a anti-capitalist because he believed that the mechanisms of capitalism fundamentally restricted peoples ability to be free. “Bad faith” came from people working menial jobs trying to convince themselves that it was their purpose when it clearly was restricting them
Rich: Ha was, indeed, a Communist for a long time. This was after he had written all his well-known stuff about Existentialism. but after the 1968 invasion of Chackoslovakia by the soviet union, he changed his mind and came to identify as an Anarchist.
There is a difference between Liberal in US terminology and European Termnilogy.
Liberal in US means left. Because there is no Labour Party in US.
Libetal in Europe means right. Brcause there is a labour and socialist party in Europe.
YOUR UNDERTAKER more than aware of that, but referring to Satre as a liberal under any definition is incorrect
That Netflix show The Good Place - rebadged No Exit?
Dunno, watched a few episodes ages ago the satire became very boring and I got tired of the show very quickly, might check it out again because it has been mentioned a lot on here.
hell is other people truest words
Pretty much bad fate unto oneself. Discarding ones own interests and enjoyments for someone else approval which lead ones to hold resentment and hatred to another.
Hell is not 'other people'...unless they are relatives. ;(
The bad things you do is the hell you get now and the good things you do is the heaven you get now, for now is the true reality of our life and the true reality of our life is the next step to the next life.You can only know something when you lived in the present day and not waiting for the after life and for that very reason you don't need to have the punishment of this and that or even the reward of this and that.And so the truest way to live is in the reality and not the fantasy.This is only my personal opinion to share with you guys.(The way of reality is the reward to your destiny).
My guess on the relations with minors thing is the better the society, the earlier it grants young people power in that society. The sooner that society passes down the mantle of authority, the stronger it is. It's a way of avoiding the build up of hierarchies. The potlatch of the Pacific Northwest indigenous people is an example of this. The trouble with making such a thing illegal is that there are good relations possible but the blunt instrument of the law removes this possibility. Sounds like a diminishing of the commons. I'm not condoning relations with minors just trying to understand Sartre.
"The look" is interesting! Think about a guy on a Harley, that engine with it's sound and the speed...the guy feels like a god. He feels like he is more. This is a false perception of power, with the real power coming from being able to do more. Easy to see the fake part, when the machine breaks down and he has to walk 10 miles with his atrophied leg muscles...the machine actually made him weaker.
The same happens for power over groups or the power of money. So "the look" might be the perception of the individual facing the group, tending to lead to a submerging of one's individuality into that of the group identity. It's a turning away from one's real power, towards the power of the group. Is this then the origin of this false perception...my group is stronger and so I'm able to do more, but I also feel like I AM more? One possible cause of hierarchy and nationalism, especially when the power of the individual is weakened thru economic disadvantage.
Having suffered ear pain repeatedly from the extreme roars and bellows and explosions of the motorcyclists who remove the contents of their mufflers in some kind of misplaced testosterone display ritual, I enjoyed your story in the middle paragraph.
That can be true, but, as Thoughts on Thinking said in the video, not all of these aspects are only bad, human hierarchies are, usually, based on competence, unless they are corrupt, which is quite often, sadly.
As an example: if you, or someone you care for, is injured, or has a real bad desease, you want a good doctor to take care of the problem in the best way possible, that's what hierarchies of competence are for, and, if they are built correctly, the best doctor also is rewarded accordingly, so he is motivated to do his best.
But I do get your point of the corruption of the individual by collectivism and the dangers of artificial bolsters to the results of inflated egos and narcissistic tendencies.
@@yag0d That hierarchy of competence is based on efficiency of skills. It's the real side of power, the ability to do more.
But is the doctor okay in this picture, what are their motivations, how is their quality of life? When rewards are excessive the value of them is diminished...but not the drive to be more. The individual goes further out on the limb as it were. When the ego is inflated, this weakens the individual. One good gust of wind and that individual snaps.
It is curious how society rewards individuals and by doing so, tends to corrupt them. Definitely some fixing needed there!
@@projectmalus Well, but now we are conflating the value of the hierarchy based on the actions or beliefs of some, but not all, in the hierarchy.
The doctor can very well be a narcissist and a prick, but that does not demerit the hierarchy and it's structure. Besides, the hierarchies that exist in our society have the reflection of our society, but, they are useful tools even if some of it's members are narcissitic assholes.
The doctor can be a bad person but do a fine job, what we do is reward their job with the hierarchies, the hierarchies are definitely not always good, but they're not always evil either, that's my point.
@@yag0d I completely agree about hierarchies not being that intrinsically good or bad by themselves. I would go even further to say all ideas that are realized now or in history are that way, excepting genocide and the like. I'm talking about political and economic ideas.
My reasoning is that all these ideas are present in the family, and they work quite well there. It's the level these ideas are applied at that slants them towards good or bad. It's the too-large group level where no ideas seem to work for very long. In fact, I see all or most wars, revolutions, perhaps even plague being the mechanism to correct this thing that makes it all, inevitably, go wrong. They all serve to diminish the group size.
I feel what Sartre is showing is the initial cause of why the group size matters, why groups larger than about 150 cause something like trust to lose hold and perhaps a fear from this gaze perception, the Other manifesting, tends to reinforce the individual's ego...to try and regain or assert power..and then the false sort of power (of the group, or money or machines) is found attractive.
Diminishing the commons is also a loss of freedom, so I think with the relations with minors Sartre talks about, he sees the effectiveness of laws in this regard as having dubious effectiveness. It drives the wrongdoers underground, where it becomes hard to help them overcome their problem. Having a law against it probably encourages some people. Couple this with ordinary, well meaning and meaningful relations that could happen, being forbidden, and so society is that less open, more fearful.
So you chose nihilism as the meaning of your life? I am a nihilist in an idealism with meaning in being of an nihalist; activist in the meaning of the nihilism of the idealism. A nihalist deconstructs the idealism. In the everyday. Even at work, until nothing matter's for the nihilist. Its a philosophy of Existentialism. As a nihalist I must realize my responsibility for my actions, the condition, and the choice was mine? The essence of the idealism of the nihilist is not a metaphysic but existence as a totality. Hell are other people in his dual integration of nihilist and nihalists.
Hell is sitting through a Sartre play.
No Exit is an interesting play, c'mon. The setting is unique and the characters bring out curiosity.
The Good Place
Sartre was a bit of an idealogue, a socialist. His ideas are great. But you’re right. How important is it that we become our authentic selves? Nietzsche’s a better philosopher to me or Camus, bc they’re not so ideological
So... Hell IS other people? Okay.
Look at war and those who blindly take orders.
At this moment I am somewhat drunk. However I have a question. There are four people in the room. I think an important question to ask is are they cross compatible.edit: This may or may not mean sexually. From a Freudian standpoint this likely is is. I kinda like jung.
there are only two people in the room. You're seeing double.
So, Hell is the default state for the weak willed and weak minded. Hell is being consistently motivated by the opinions of others? That's sad...most are in hell because they choose to be and lack the mental dexterity to rise above.
If you are offended by this post..... wow, that must be hell for you.
read and learn. learning is the only way to claw your way out.
Haha. You’ve projected so much in this comment - you are in your own weak hell! 🖤
Hell is other people?
So is grace
So is redemption
So is joy
So are so many other things across the gamut of affective and cooperative relations between humans.
J P Sartre was a sour one and - incidentally - had detrimental influence on the mind of Pol Pot when the latter studied in Paris and which played out in Cambodia later.
Hell is a trip to IKEA
The philosopher Sartre once said hell is other people...He was only half right
Hell is a presumption...
Well having lived with Riley horrible anorexic stick insect, angry screaming Brazillian and lived with a Sicilian having survived an abusive childhood characterized by abandonment and parental narcissism I'd say
Hell is other people