Lost Procedures - Private Pilot Check Ride Task [HD]
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- One of the three tasks that is failed most often on the Private Pilot check ride is "Lost Procedures". Along with the Diversion and Emergency Simulated Landing, these are the three "high workload" tasks that require you to think while you're still flying the airplane!
San Diego Flight Instructor Garry Wing, of Fly The Wing Flight Training, takes you through the "5-C's" of Lost Procedures: Circle / Climb / Conserve / Communicate / Calculate.
Circle, Climb, Conserve, Communicate and Confess. Nice I was looking for this.
Wish I lived in San Diego to leverage your expertise as an instructor. Am preparing for the ppl checkride as a youthful 59 year old and found your videos on soft/short field take offs and lost procedures very helpful. Great job! Thanks much and keep 'me coming! Robyn S., Stillwater, MN
This is by far the best lost procedure video out there!!! Thanks for keeping it simple 😊✌️
Boy I wish you were my flight instructor
Garry. Excellent demonstration and simple procedure. As a pilot for a long time I learned to fly and navigate without GPS. GPS is wonderful and is a great tool but like anything it can fail too. It should be stressed that pilots should "back up" the readout on the GPS with traditional pilotage (VFR) and be able to use the five steps you suggested without the aid to GPS during practice. Once again, GPS is lovely but pilots should keep up their old style navigation techniques too. Great vid.
Nicely done, Gary. You have a great presentation style.
If I watch this earlier I wouldn't have fail my Lost Procedure check ride =]]
Excelent! If I may... I would put the CONFESS independently as my FIRST C. One ot the problem with getting lost is that you do not CONFESS to yourself / or the crew that you are LOST.... Then...continue with the other very useful Cs. and procedures. Thank you for your video.
Thank you so much, i did this in my checkride and everything went perfectly, really thank you!
I had to do my PVT check ride at night, both visual and under the hood ((no GPS in those days). With practice I could find and land at night just about anywhere in the Californias from Tahoe to (near) Baja. Loved it!!
Another great vid! With GPS now, this becomes trivial, I guess. On the 'communicate' issue, you could also try 122.0 or, if you're really desperate, 121.50. Probably not a bad idea to try the VOR method for giggles one day, just to see how it works. It's fun and surprisingly effective. One problem with the old days is you would have that huge sectional spread out all over the place, trying to look at it while flying the rental C-150 with no wing leveler and one VOR.
Nice. Good info not often practiced
First solo to practice area, I got lost. KGRK controller brought me back to Gray Army Airfield. Went personally to approach control to thank controller. She looked to be about 17 years old. Never got lost again. That was 45 years ago.
Well done sir, that may be the easiest lost procedure I have ever heard.
I obtained my PPL in January, 2016, in a '75 Skyhawk equipped with a GNS430. I was told by the DPE at the beginning of the practical that I absolutely could NOT use the GPS for anything other than tuning the radios. Not sure if this is in the PTS (now ACS) but it was this particular examiner's requirement that all pilotage be done by visual reference and corroborating with the sectional. I personally appreciate this approach (no pun intended) because it forces you to know how to navigate in the event you go somewhere on vacation and rent a plane that doesn't have a GPS and you find yourself in the sky not knowing where you are. Having said that, I now fly with ForeFlight on a GPS-equipped iPad, a backup iPad, and on my iPhone for redundancy. I do still carry a paper sectional though in the event all this tech fails or my batteries are all dead.
Thanks for the post. Not only is what that DPE did >not< in the PTS/ACS, but he apparently skipped the part that says you have to know how everything works on the airplane. I just think it's an unrealistic approach to training and testing. What if your sectional chart blows out the window (happened once to my student on a training flight), and you're left with only a GPS, and you never learned how to use it, as it was apparently ignored by your DPE? We can concoct any scenario to fit our agenda, but it's probably best if a pilot understands how everything works. The way you fly now (ForeFlight, iPad, iPhone, etc.) is realistic. I even train Instrument students how to fly in IMC in an emergency using only ForeFlight. Is it IFR-approved / legal? No. Will it save your life in an emergency? Yes.
Most if not all DPE's here in Vegas know and understand that realistically if you have it, you are going to use it when it comes to any form of NAV aid. We can have our iPad's up with Foreflight or whatever, the G1000 or our G300 whatever it is, we can and do use them on our checkrides. The FAA now acknowledges Foreflight as a certified supplement to sectionals, plates, weather etc.
That’s like not letting me use the backup camera in my car on my driving test.
@@GarryWing Interesting. Here in Germany we arent allowed to use the GPS during the PPL exam, sectional chart only. Im not even sure if it would be allowed to request a position report from ATC, will ask my instructor for sure.
Flying with a sectional only is kind of annoying but i will also admit it can be fun if it does work out. And to be honest, its much easier to teach someone how to fly with GPS rather than how to fly with a map only. Just out of interest: Why is a "being lost" procedure even required during a checkride in the US then? Its pretty much impossible to be lost with a functioning GPS.
Thanks for the insight; always interested in how these things are being taught and tested in other countries. The point of many of these PPL tasks is to see if you can do something (locate your position) while safely controlling the airplane (collision hazards, distractions, situational awareness). As for using GPS, you're pretty much required to use, or at least know, how everything on the airplane you use on the examine works. "Failure to seek assistance" and "use nav systems..and.. contact and ATC facility for assistance" is right there in the ACS task! What I tell students; "on the check ride, fly just like you'd fly the day after the examine". Yesterday in the middle of a cross-country between Las Vegas & Palm Springs, I asked "where are we"? We weren't 'lost', but I wanted to know where we were... look at the chart (or GPS), find a landmark out the window; task complete.
I very much look forward to all your videos. Short, chock full of solid information, well narrated and demonstrated. Nice work!
Wow you have great videos on your channel. I don't know how they never came up on youtube search. I found your channel after reading a comment post on another channel (maybe you need more keywords??) Anyways, keep up this great work because these vids are soo helpful. I'll be watching all of them in the coming weeks. You explain topics well and the production is really good. Thanks!!!
weatherandsky Thanks. These videos were produced primarily for the benefit of my own students. I've resisted adding commercials to them, which is how you "magically" get more views on CZcams and search hits on Google :)
Ahhh IC Im starting to notice this trend myself THanks again!!
I live in San Diego, and I hope my PPL Check ride takes me out by Wolford or Hodges so I know right where I am !
your videos is the easiest to understand
thanks
Awesome! Also helps that it's in my neck of the woods! I train in the same area!
Great video!! Adds to the basic lost procedures taught in school. Better I might add.....Keep em coming!! Out Here ( Army for good by )
Great videos, perfect length
So far this explanation tops my list, although I would likely move calculate up the list a bit. It seems every instructor expects something different and all of them only want their way because somehow "thats what the FAA wants" . Lots of urban legend in the pilot community and it does not serve new students who are already juggling enough new info without adding ghost regulations to the mix.
How far up the list depends on the specifics of the situation, if I know I need to keep going generally south on a long cross country I may start with calculate, if i am over flat land midwest and missed my turn(may be going the wrong general direction) start with circle and conserve [save for very low altitudes, climb would be of marginal value with no hills to block signal or view] then calculate and communicate; if fuel reserve may be an issue start with communicate; my local area where I may recognize landmarks even without the sectional I may circle first, followed by calculate, and climb only if needed to communicate because we have a lot of over hanging class C and B as well as frequent overcast at moderate altitudes, unless I am over the mountains(where its is all E/G any way) in which case climb comes in first.
There's no mystery or urban legend to any of this; use the ACS as your guide. It tells you exactly what you must do to meet the minimum standard for each task. There are many ways to achieve the same result, which is how different ways of teaching the same things evolve. At the Private level, I believe examiners are looking more for good decision-making and judgement than they are flying to perfection or rote memorization. In your example, of course you wouldn't Climb, if it put you into a cloud --- that's good decision making! And yes, you should "identify prominent landmarks" --- it says so right in the ACS for Lost Procedures! (note: you don't Climb just so you can communicate better; it also helps you see more and gives better perspective).
Good video and good instruction
Thank you yet again, Garry!
Great videos. Working on my private
Very good video. very informative.
Does check ride mostly just fly.or are you supposed to have a plan.example go north then turn right
Love it! Thank you!
great video. thanks !!
Hey, love your videos! So useful,
Question on the triangule with VOR method. What's the most recommendable, to tune it with to or from signal?
Thanks in advance!
I'd say unless you're actually navigating TO the VOR (in which case you'd tune "TO" and fly the needle), I'd center the needle with a "FROM" indication, as all radials emanate FROM the VOR and that would help to more easily locate your position on the sectional chart.
@@GarryWing thanks for the response! So kind!
My DPE isn't allowing any GPS usage. Using FltPlanGo allows triangulation, but doesn't show directional angles. So am correct that I will have to do all this normally practiced on a table in the very confined space of a 172 cockpit while looking for traffic, while keeping the plane at altitude?? The next day with my PPL, if I'm lost, I'll just grab Garmin, press closest airports, and do direct to, and turn the heading bug and note time estimate (Garmin being supplemental on a tablet or phone, not legal for main navigation). To me, that seems much safer then juggling a tablet or paper chart, a pencil if paper, a plotter, a calculator, AND the flight controls.
Your DPE sounds about 20-years behind the real world. You should mention this casually to someone at your local FSDO. The DPE's I've used for at least the last 5-8 years have all said "fly the check ride the way you'll fly the next day".
If you have GPS on your check ride aircraft, the DPE is required to observe you using it (that goes for anything on the airplane; AutoPilot, VOR, ADF, etc.).
In an emergency, if you lose everything (electrical, vacuum, etc.; highly unlikely), I teach to use ForeFlight. In a REAL emergency are you really going to fly compass headings, or use the infinitely more accurate / user-friendly iPad app?
If the gps fail then what would you do
great vid!
What kind of a$$hole would hit the thumbs down...? It's free information.
Thanks for the tip, I'll try the VOR plot. Never thought about that one. Also thanks for the FREE material.
lol i got disoriented because i couldn't find Lake Wohlford on my way to Ramona, wish i could of saw this before that flight.
awesome thanks
Great video thank you, but what is your headset setup? and how do you feel about it?
excellent!!!
good video!!
hey garry nicely done, how did you use the FOI to get your point across to the student? I should be taking the CFI checkride in Oct 2013. I hear its not easy.
Do you have a hard copy of this to use for air traffic controller training?
Great Video, very informative.
i have done procedures in that very same spot lol
Thumbs up from another armchair pilot. ;-)
Much more difficult having to triangulate under the hood and hold to ACS standards.
love it, but kind of duh is that you wouldn't be lost if you could see the fixes on a GPS. if you are lost with that, well that is a problem lol. VOR Triangulation tho, essential skill. ;)
I'd bet that most pilots would rather die than confess to being lost on an open frequency. Or at least make up a phony N-number.
jjohnston94 "This is...um, HARAMBE1..."
Stuff like this is why I write down all the relevant VORs before I leave the ground.