Christ Alone: Challenging SDA's Extra-Biblical Authority!
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- In 1982, defrocked SDA pastor Desmond Ford and Walter Rea were interviewed on The John Ankerberg Show to discuss the issues regarding 1844, the investigative judgement, the Glacier View Conference, and the Ellen G. White plagiarism bombshell published in Rea's book "The White Lie."
COPYRIGHT: This footage belongs to The John Ankerberg Show and is uploaded strictly for educational purposes with the intent of making sure this footage stays preserved and useful to the body of Christ.
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 - Introduction to Theological Discussion
1:56 - Theological Bombshell Explained
3:42 - Investigative Judgment Doctrine
7:47 - Adventist Sanctuary Doctrine
25:14 - Walter Rae's Ellen G. White Critique
31:11 - Adventist Church's Response to Criticism
33:47 - Defining Plagiarism in Religious Texts
35:58 - "The White Lie" Book Overview
36:35 - "Daniel 8" Interpretation by Walter Rae
47:55 - Future of Adventism Discussion
50:00 - Guest Speakers Introduction
50:58 - Interactive Q&A Session
58:50 - Cult Allegations Against Adventists
1:02:55 - Adventist Exclusive Community Issues
1:04:12 - Optimistic Views on Adventism's Future
1:05:53 - Concluding Remarks
1:06:54 - Audience Engagement Question
____________________________________________________
The Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Man is a sinner (Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8) and our sin has separated us from our Maker (Isaiah 59:2). In His grace, God entered into His own creation in the person of Jesus Christ (John 1:1-14; Col. 1:19), born of a virgin (Matt. 1:23), and lived a perfect and sinless life, fulfilling all the Law’s demands (2 Cor. 5:21; Matt. 5:17), on a mission by God the Father to save sinners from condemnation (John 3:16-18, 6:37-40). He paid the penalty for sin which is death (Romans 6:23) and bore the sins of His people in His body on a cross (1 Peter 2:24), making propitiation by His blood (Romans 3:25). He died, was buried, and resurrected in the same body He died in on the third day for our justification (1 Cor. 15, Romans 4:25; Luke 24:39). By a living faith (James 2:18) in the Person and Work of Jesus (Romans 10:9-10), God graciously declares a person righteous (Romans 4:5), they are reconciled to their Creator (Romans 5:10-11), given Christ’s righteousness in full (Phil. 3:8-9), sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13), and have peace with God (Romans 5:1). They are born again of the Spirit (1 John 5:1, Titus 3:5), adopted into His family(Eph. 4:5-7), and are granted eternal resurrection life in Jesus Christ (1 John 5:11), set free to do good works that please Him (Eph. 2:10; 1 John 2:3-4). Jesus will physically return one day to judge the living and the dead (1 Peter 4:5; Acts 24:15; John 5:24-5), throwing the wicked out of His Kingdom (Matt. 13:41-3), but His people will be spared from the wrath to come (1 Thess. 1:10) to dwell in union with God forever (Rev. 21:3).
#ellengwhite #seventhdayadventist #adventistchurch #adventist #threeangelsmessages #spiritofprophecy #christiantheology #debates #discussion #protestant #apologetics #sda #sdachurch #christiantheology #seventhdayadventistchurch #longformcontent #seventhdayadventism #ellengwhite #ellengouldwhite #theology #adventism #christiandebate - Zábava
I remember watching this many mnay years ago. It gave me strength that my reading of the scripture was in fact correct.
Des Ford "I would like to see the church come into full harmony with scripture" thanks Myles for being a thorn in the side to Adventist.. Keep on banging on their doors till they repent, receive and preach the Gospel of Jesus
As always looking forward to this one. Thanks for all the good work you’re doing Miles and team. God bless!
It’s a shame to see that in 2023, these issues in the video have largely been ignored. In fact the General Conference has recently doubled down in upholding EGW and the investigative judgement. No wonder many are leaving.
Sadly true. Things did not go the direction Ford had hoped.
Unfortunately the SDA church believes that the spirit of prophecy (manifest through the writings of EGW) is what identifies them as ‘the remnant’ so for this reason they can never drop her
@@karen61777 good point!
Yep. This is true.
So true.
Ford pulled the pants off the IJ. Actually, the Bible does that😂
Thank you, Desmond Ford!!!
I wish to thank the ladies in the chat for standing strong against the SDA. All my love as Sisters in Christ especially to Madeline and Queen Esther.
I praise the Brothers as well who stand in the name of our Savior Jesus.
God Bless Myles and his ministry that is answering questions about Adventism daily. 🕊️
God bless you.
@@Mfield111 Bitter much? 🤔
@@Mfield111 Do you serve Satan?
You obviously don't like Christians and accuse them every chance you get.
Take your meds...
@@Mfield111 Yes He is great !!!
Adventism is a cancer. It was co-founded and ruled by a mentally ill woman who placed herself above God. It stole from Catholicism and all the cults of the Burnt Over District. Maybe you should look up Universal Public Friend, she seems to be EGWitless' precursor. 🧐
Sad that the followers of Adventism are unable to divide the word correctly as Paul warned us to do. But more so that they pay such homage to EGW and her writings is beyond me. Putting it simply EGW insults our very creator with the presumption that her interpretations are what is needed to understand God's word. Obviously the apostles, the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God aren't enough but the world neede EGW. The woman is a deceiver and a servant of the enemy.
At this point, I don't even think that these people will believe Jesus Himself, if He came down from Heaven to tell them that she was a false prophet 🥴
They just refuse to see it no matter how much evidence it out there...
@@nixluvsjesusgood comment
Im wondering why this video has fewer viewers! Old video with courageous men standing up for the truth. The truth will set SDAs free!
Only Jesus SETS YOU FREE. No prophet Ellen white
Miles , thank you for posting this. I'm not an Adventist, but I have learned a lot about the group. Please keep up the good work that you are doing.
1844 undermines the work of the cross, and claims that his work was incomplete. As it says in Hebrews 9:25-28, Christ would have to offer himself up over and over if the cross was incomplete. There was no extra work in 1844. Once and for all... It is finished. Romans 6:1 shows that the early Christians were trying to understand the gospel, because they asked... Shall we continue sinning so that grace might increase?... God forbid. But the investigative judgment is not a misunderstanding of the gospel, it's an attempt at creating a cover-up for the false prediction of 1844.
yes you are right a real disappointment
FALSE TEACHINGS FROM Ellen G. White
The people of SDA are fooled by the Devils
Spot on Dr. Ford 😊
Des Ford is a treat. I love his Vossian preaching.
Praise God for Des Ford’s impact on leading many SDAs to the true Gospel.
For me the first step in the right direction was when I discovered Light Bearers. Specifically the preaching of David Asscherrick. If not for hearing his Christ centered, Gospel centered Adventist leaning preaching, I would have never been prepared to receive the things that Des Ford has taught, let alone been prepared to embrace Myles’ ministry. I will always be thankful for David Asscherrick.
@@Mfield111 I can understand what you mean. Myles’ approach can be a bit sarcastic and rough around the edges and yes I think he could probably reach more people if he altered that. But the information being presented (which matters a lot more than the presentation) is solid for the most part. I disagree on some things, but on the important topics I think this is a really good resource for Adventists to at least hear arguments outside our own echo chamber.
@@Mfield111 to you as well!🙏🏼
Who would think that a woman with just a 3rd grade education , the most translated female author of the world- Sister Ellen G. White, is who these two men with PH Ds are are so vehemently are attacking.
D.Ford with 2 Ph Ds ; 1000 pages spent on trying to tear Sister White 's writings apart. I don't know... In Ellen White 's day copyright law was not in effect and she did use the best sources ; even in the Holy Bible Jesus & the disciples used the Old Testament: " To the law and to the testimony...
Des Ford has alot to fear from The Investigative Judgment because of all the souls he knowingly led astray. I in no wise, envy the apostate position of these men.
... a woman with just a 3rd grade education; now really. Now more than EVER convinced her writings are TRULY inspired.
@AnsweringAdventism @Myles thanks for this video i just pray SDAs would watch this video and take note and discuss it with their family and Pastor. And not see this like its mocking them or trying to put them down its all about sharing the truth. Your Catholic brother Robert from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
SHOULD I BELIVE E.G. WHITE OR THE BIBLE?
1. Was the plan of salvation made before or after the fall?
E.G. White says AFTER the fall (Great Controversy, p.347)
The Bible says BEFORE (Ephesians 1:4:; 1 peter 1:18)
Should I believe EGW or the Bible?
2. Was Adam deceived by Satan?
E.G. White says YES (Evangelism, p. 589)
The Bible says NOPE (1 Timothy 2:14)
Should I believe EGW or the Bible?
3. Did pre-flood human beings mate with animals to produce amalgamated created creatures?
E.G. White says YES (Spiritual Gifts Vol. 3,p 64 )
The Bible says NOPE (Genesis 1:24-25- Nowhere in the Bible is it indicated there was amalgamation of human beings and animals before the flood)
Should I believe EGW or the Bible?
4. Was the tower of Babel built before or after the flood?
E.G. White says BEFORE (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 119)
The Bible says AFTER (Genesis 11:4)
Should I believe EGW or the Bible?
5. Who bears human's sins?
E.G. White says SATAN (The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485-486)
The Bible says JESUS (1 Peter 2:24)
Should I believe EGW or the Bible?
I have read so much of what EGW wrote and what others in the church and outside have written about her writings. She calls her writings "little light" that lead people to "greater light", the Bible. The truth is her writings are leading me away from the Bible. Should I believe the Bible or clear heresies of E.G. White?
Stop lying to people!
For example, your reference to Evangelism makes no mention of Adam. NOT EVEN ONCE!
@@theoschoendube it does! Pg.542
Awesome video
40:06 is the most important part of this video and shows the difference between who has an internal fight as an Adventist and who already made a decision. This interview presents 2 stages of the Adventist mind and Walter was sure about his position because he knew who Ellen actually was through all "her" liteturate while Ford got stuck inside the sanctuary as a person inside of a maze.
Wow.. some SDA are reading the bible !!! Yea !
A simple straightforward reading of the book of Hebrews chapter 9 confirms that Christ went into the Holy place at his ascension and not 1844 years later. Just study the Bible and we do not need any other human device to take the place of the Holy Spirit.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Hebrews 9:12 is mentioned at around 18:04. In Greek version it is said: hagion. This is not the most holy place. Paul makes this distinction earlier in the book of Hebrews. So why should it be translated as most holy (hagion hagion)?
Got anything current? To add to this?
“Love gives life to the lifeless. Love lights a flame in the heart that is cold. Love brings hope to the hopeless & gladdens the heart of the sorrowful.” I hope that all my Adventist friends will sense my affection for them. They are unfairly criticized.
I too have a DREAM, Lord YESHUA!
There are people better than Jesus. Meet the SDAs.
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" James 2:14 KJV.
Why is the John Ankerberg Show in black & white as if it was broadcast in the 50’s?
It's in B&W to show it was taken from another source. You can find it in color on YT from other presenters/channels. 🕊️
@@RandomTChance we can clearly deduce that it was taken from another source whether it is in black/white or color. Your reasoning makes no sense.
@@musickfreek If it isn't his own content it won't be in color is all. 🤷♂️
Ellen White was either not right in the head or not right in her heart, or both. If she was a mental case, maybe we'll see her in Heaven some day.
Sda as a Church, what Church,Church of anti Christ?
Hmmm? Why would they show a "side-view picture" of Desmond Ford, "behind" a "window" and partial "curtain", looking like he's moving a "chess piece"???
Bizarre, isn't it!? ... ( Bill Cooper would've loved to pick that one apart! )
When one refuses to examine the issues actually presented and choose to examine feeble points which has no coralation to the actual purpose of wat is being presented its often cognitive dissonance as play
@@charnelallan7159 .. Ha! Oh I've examined the issues alright... Especially that elephant in the room there! ; )
I guess, according to the narrator of this video (9:30), Creation Week was only 3.5 days, because they were counted as being "evenings and mornings" just as the 2300 days were counted. Someone does not understand the Bible and its use of special, descriptive language!
Did Ellen White receive instruction from her dead husband, and did she follow it? If you could point me to some information about that, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
Adventists do not believe that communication with the dead is possible. The dead is believed to have no consciousness, not even spiritual consciousness.
@michaelkish7794. Letter 17, 1881.7
Sounds very Watchtower.
Also the disfellowship rules.
I think the fact that Ellen White did not draw attention to the authors whom she quoted speaks the more eloquently to her own prophethood. God does not regard persons, and all truth is from Him, not them. Had Ellen White praised or elevated those authors in any way, it would have detracted from the message, drawing attention to them instead of to the truths they advocated. Furthermore, if she were collecting the gems of truth from them, and put their name to it, would not many be tempted to consider that an inspired endorsement for everything they had said, much of which may not have been the truth?
Don’t try to defend EGW’s plagiarism. God clearly speaks against this when He commanded us not to steal (a commandment) or take the word’s from others and claim them as our own.
““Therefore,” says the Lord, “I am against these prophets who steal messages from each other and claim they are from me.”
Jeremiah 23:30 NLT
I highly suggest reading the whole chapter.
@@JD__2018 If you choose to interpret the Bible's meaning in that way, then Jesus was also a false prophet. Be careful by what rod you measure the prophets! Jesus quoted the Scriptures on many occasions, sometimes explicitly referencing them in doing so, sometimes not. Peter did the same thing. If Peter was a false prophet because he did just what Ellen White is accused of doing (quoting without attributing), then one might go so far as to cast out the entire Bible, along with that book of Jeremiah which you just quoted.
Nay, it is not wrong to repeat the words which God has given, nor is it wrong not to credit them to the spokespersons through whom God gave them: in fact, to credit the man is to deny that God was their true Source.
Whether jesus saves you are not, sin can do you alot of damage. Happier you are to keep my commandments. Pain and destruction makes the way with sin.
Just like moses raised up the image of the snake the people must look on it to not die of snake bites. Jesus was nailed on the tree. You must keep your eyes on jesus to be saved.
So it's okay to still continue to be Seventh-day Adventist, like Desmond Ford, but disagree with critical doctrines such as the Investigative Judgement?
How can one claim to be SDA but disagree with the official organ? Doesn't make sense to me. Basically anyone can be SDA with "personal" subjective reasoning. Its like pin the tail on the donkey, where there seems to be this thin line for many Adventist who are progessive or liberal in the givings of what to accpet and what to reject.
I totally agree with his dissection of the 1844 heresy, but I wonder why he stayed SDA. I understand romans where we aren't to judge the day or foods etc of a believer, but the SDA Jesus just isn't real if the Investigative Judgement is false. Id FLEE! 😅. Because ultimately the official church belives in a false gospel Ford no longer agrees to....quite interesting.
@@FlyingGentile I think Des had a sentimental connection to the organization and wanted to reform it in light of scripture. And this influenced his wanting to remain a part of the organization despite his disagreement with official teaching.
@answeringadventism o okay was just curious, because I was reading a October 1980 document about him and his beliefs right after being put out the church.
I never follow denominations ,or identify with it. Better to read bible urself and get babtized, not the church baptism, but the true baptism. Many adventist even belive that pastor can only baptise and its more about church then baptism that is written in bible
Dez, your comparing "prophecy" giving Ellen White to a person quoting from other non God breathed words, apples to oranges.
She constantly contradicts God's breathed words.
She knew it. She was making money from her followers like every other cult's false prophets (teachers, as Peter and Paul say).
Ellen G. White was not perfect as many other human beings. I find most of her writings useful in my spiritual life. As an SDAC member, I try every day to be a better person and trust in the mercy of God. I don't care about non important details.
Give me one biblical text that says Christ atonement was NOT COMPLETED AT CALVARY. JUST ONE UR OWN SOP WORDS.
Read ur Bible
@@user-ll4nc7db1pI KNOW RIGHT. U SDA'S PUT UR FALSE PROPHET GOOD OLD ELLEN ABOVE THE BIBLE. SADDD
You can't try to be a better person. Our goodness is not enough to please God. You have to believe in the complete atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ which paid for our forgiveness of sins.His death,and burial and resurrection.(1 Corinthians 15:3-10). Then you must repent of your sins and be baptized in the water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and be filled with the Holy ghost according to the scripture (Acts 2:37-38),(Acts 19:2-7),(Acts 10:44-48). Christ is the only one who can save us and present us blameless before the presence of his glory. We are not good enough. We got to surrender to God and let HIM live through us that is the only way that we can live a pleasing life to God (Romans 8:9-14).
How many have been indoctrinated into thinking Jesus'sacrifice has something to do with the Day of Atonement?
Jesus was the Passover Lamb.
Remember when John said, behold the goat of God? Of course you don't because John proclaimed Jesus was the LAMB of God.
Stop and think for a minute.
Did the people eat the goat?
When the goat was thrown over the cliff don't you think bones were broken?
Jesus gave us His flesh to eat symbolically.
Not one of our dear Saviors bones was broken fulfilling Scripture.
Stop pandering to Adventists over a sacrifice that has nothing to do with our redemption.
Stop trying to force pieces together that have nothing to do with each other. Yes, there are similarities but that's where it ends.
Look at the Passover sacrifice and you will find they are a perfect match.
🕊️
@@Mfield111 Hahahaha 😂
You calling someone confused is hilarious. Take your meds!
@@Mfield111 HAHAHAHA 😂
Once again you prove my point.
@@Mfield111 How many have been indoctrinated into thinking Jesus'sacrifice has something to do with the Day of Atonement?
Jesus was the Passover Lamb.
Remember when John said, behold the goat of God? Of course you don't because John proclaimed Jesus was the LAMB of God.
Stop and think for a minute.
Did the people eat the goat?
When the goat was thrown over the cliff don't you think bones were broken?
Jesus gave us His flesh to eat symbolically.
Not one of our dear Saviors bones was broken fulfilling Scripture.
Stop pandering to Adventists over a sacrifice that has nothing to do with our redemption.
Stop trying to force pieces together that have nothing to do with each other. Yes, there are similarities but that's where it ends.
Look at the Passover sacrifice and you will find they are a perfect match.
🕊️
It's interesting to see how 2 two men with PH Ds are are so vehemently attacking the writings of Ellen G. White, a woman with just a 3rd grade education. This little detail neither one mentions . Neither do they mention the fact that copyright law was not in effect in the during Ellen White 's time . Another thing, it goes unmentioned that Ellen White is the world's most translated female author ; something
I don't think neither Rea nor Ford have accomplished. Even in the Bible, Jesus and His disciples quoted from the available Scriptures, The Torah, " To the law and to the testimony..." They relied on the law and the prophets. Sister White 's sources were the Biblical and reliable historically. Rea
I wouldn't want to trade places with Des Ford who has led so many souls astray, including the man sitting next to him; deriding the major Pillars of Adventists. No man was more accommodated and given love and time than Des Ford ,instead he comes up with a 1000 page against the Sanctuary and the Spirit of Prophecy.
It is true what the Word says: " Pride goeth before a fall."
No, i do not envy either one of these men.
“Attacking”
No, examining. Stop calling exam “attacking.” If they are “precious rays of light shining from the throne of God” then they deserve critical exam to see if they pass. Again, stop calling this “attacking.”
“Copyright law was not in effect”
It’s fascinating you guys use this defense. So stealing is only wrong if the American government says so? I thought you guys were the commandment keepers?
No, Ellen White didn’t just “quote from the available scriptures”. Again, such a terrible defense. She stole people’s writings and CLAIMED THEY WERE FROM GOD. Then, on top of it, copywrote the statements and sold them to make a fortune. Stop saying this is no different than the apostles and Jesus. An insult to Jesus and His disciples trying to elevate and defend a thief.
No one asked you to “envy these men.” All you have it character attacks which is the standard Adventist way. Attack someone personally instead of dealing with what they say.
Ellen White- a woman with a third grade education. People who are not highly educated can decieve and be decieved. She consistently withheld the truth regarding what she had published under her name. She struck her assistant in the face for telling the truth about her writings. The green glow that was seen coming from under her study door as she did her automatic writings and her dream of her dead husband talking to her are creepy and are not of God. Money, power and adoration flowed to her and her husband as they promoted false teachings. Evil comes in many packages.
@@answeringadventismWhich writings did she specifically steal and claim were from God?
Spirit of prophecy is Jesus not Ellen White and the Bible say Hebrew 1 ;1-2 say no more prophets after Jesus
@@janejones3170
Right, the spirit of prophesy isn't Ellen White. In Matthew 23: 8-10 it says we have 1 teacher, 1 Father and 1 instructor- the Messiah. Ellen White was not a prophet sent by God to interpret the entire bible and history from beginning to end for the entire world or anyone. Jesus the Messiah is our instructor.