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INR5: Robert Price "Subjective Conscious and the Historical Jesus"
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2015
- American theologian and writer. Books: "Deconstructing Jesus", "Inerrant the Wind: The Evangelical Crisis in Biblical Authority", "The Case Against the Case for Christ" among others. Robert
I love this man... such a down-to-earth, understandable method of speaking. And the way he injects a bit of humor and sarcasm in every so often is just brilliant. What a great mind, it's fascinating to listen to him and just consider how learned and well-read he is on so many subjects
Me too, he is very original in a field where originality is hard be!
Me too. He can talk forever. He also demonstrates curiosity for the opinions of others as long as they are coming from an honest position.
I wish I would have heard him sooner! 💛
He talks like Terence McKenna
Perfectly stated! Encyclopedic, with a sense of humor and humility. Rare combination of skills.
I can listen to Price and Carrier all day
4th time I've ran through this.. Dr. Price WILL be known as one of the greatest minds of our time... So humble in his approach... I smile at the "sifi monster movie" side of him.. During last October (Halloween month)..he posted each day the movies that he and his daughter had sat and watched each evening through the entire month.. What a guy.. And to have such a good connection with your grown daughter is something to aspire to…
I could listen to Price all day. I count this as one of his best. He, with only occasional glances at his notes, lulls his audience into a rapport that carries us into the land of edification on calm waters. Krauss' INR5 speech was like a roaring rocket ride into space from which I bailed at 20,000 feet. But I did get some of it and wow! To watch the speeches at this phenomenal meeting of geniuses is to get you paradigm shifted in a fascinating and heartening way.
Have you heard the treat he made for Halloween???
+GorillaGuerilla You're talking about "Righteous Rise", yes?
Having only just met him let me offer you one Rick Roderick in return! 🤗
I just walked around listening to this while running errands and working out.
Price is price-less. Hope he stays on for many years to come.
A masterclass in real bible scholarship from Dr Price. Always fascinating.
The moment he finds his notes for the talk after the talk is over...
I love, I mean LOVE Bob's superhero analogy!!!
Not to mention the Martian Manhunter reference!
+stvbrsn I preferred the analogy of coming home, switching on the TV, seeing Godzilla and thinking it was the news, that was awesome.
+styot Then there is the real life example of Orson Wells' War of the Worlds radio broadcast. --- There will always be believers.
@@sbwetherbe czcams.com/video/3M5vCEjEC9s/video.html
I absolutely just love Robert Price he's always been one of my favorites
Brilliant man
Thank you, that was hugely entertaining. For a small but significant minority of us 😃
A Christian informed me that we are all wretched sinners, and that Christians are blessed because of being saved from punishment by Jesus. I replied that if he really believed he was a wretched sinner, he shouldn't be using an intermediator on whom to dump his sins, but rather he should just accept that he is one of us, and be willing to take the eternal punishment from the creator that he is certain is just treatment concerning other evil sinners. He didn't respond.
Price is beyond fantastic!
"There is no god and [Robert Price] is his Prophet" (original quote was by Wolfgang Pauli on Paul Dirac)
Dr Price makes history interesting and humourous 😎
He's awesome
21:10 Philo's logos doctrine is a good candidate for this projection of Yahweh , later fleshed out into Jesus.
I've been fortunate to have had college instructors like Dr. PRICE.
His wish/effort to evoke a purely historic understanding of the topic reminds me of them frequently. In the court of sanity, one can only conclude stories, created by people, for gods they created is what is always at work. Show me a regenerated arm/leg and I'm on board. Science will do it soon though, because...science!
Great singing voice.
That was fantastic, thank you Dr Price
awsome video!! thanks
Brilliant! And he found his notes after the speech.
One off my bucket list (first viewer)!
I only wish he'd hurry up and finish Winds of Winter.
LOL
lol
About minute 40-41... how brilliant, how right!
But Gamera is a friend of all children. ..
Doctor price is amazing . Walking encyclopaedia.
The teaching of “spirituality” not only separates us from each other, but tragically, it separates us from ourselves, because theologians taught and teach that the best part of our spirits are not with us, but rather, belong to the creator of the universe, and that we will be either judged as being worthy of salvation, or will have to suffer for eternity, depending on how the creator “feels” about out systems of belief, and our performances. From my perspective, we have two choices. We can either believe that the universe was created by an entity that designed extreme suffering and extreme judgment as part of its plan ... or, we can believe (as did Stephen Hawking, before he died) that the universe always existed, and will always exist ... no creator or creation involved. I don't know about you, but I relate to the following quote ... “We are all hallucinating all the time, including right now. It’s just that when we agree about our hallucinations, we call that reality.” Anil Seth … neuroscientist.
Entertaining talk. He has knowledge and the gift of conveying it. Why has he given up on his body? What is that all about?
He did the whole speech out of his mind?!
If you hear his Bible Geek podcast you will see that he does that all the time. Brilliant man.
Don't get me wrong - i love this guy. I buy his books, and i love listening to him talk. But man, you really have to stay focused to even understand what point he's trying to make in these talks. He talks nonstop, and will end up four tangents away because of his incredible knowledge and ability to draw out quotes and references to all sorts of obscure texts (obscure to the layperson, anyway). Yeah, he usually walks back through those tangents to sum up a bit, but the sheer volume of facts and parallels and details will wash you away if your attention wanders even briefly. Luckily, even if you can't recall what point he's making, the details are still amazing.
lol,......yep....that's Bob 4 ya :)
Yep, agreed: Bob talks in a way that _requires_ you to really pay attention. But in the long run, that's a good thing. I wouldn't say he is scatter-brained - quite the contrary, but his tangents are a product of his vast knowledge and wanting to "get it all out there". I recommend any of his podcasts, such as "The Bible Geek" (www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/biblegeek.php) and "The Human Bible" (www.thehumanbible.net/). They are both endlessly fascinating if you are genuinely interested in the bible from a historical or mythological point of view. I think even some Christians will find it interesting because Bob treats the bible - for the most part - with respect and really knows his stuff. On "The Bible Geek" he answers viewer mail and his knowledge of the bible becomes very apparent at that point.
JW3HH
JustWasted3HoursHere I find that he seems way more on point in the podcasts. Over the past few months i've listened to about 40 or 50 Bible Geek episodes from the archive, and since most of the questions are very specific, he doesn't often seem to stray too far. Even though i've read several of his books, as well as a handful of writings by other new testament scholars, almost every question is way too specific for me to really follow - but i enjoy listening anyway.
@@justavian
He does make a lot of references, many of them you could say almost esoteric. You gotta be drilled somewhat in Biblical scholarship or ancient legends and myths to catch everything or be familiar with some people in that circle.
What a mind ! Seems spot on !
Wonderful talk. As an aside, I think wearing socks with sandals is very comfortable and more should try it. Personally, I don't like looking at bare toes anyway. Just a personal thing.
A brilliant man
He makes his point most efficiently from 36 minutes into it and onward.
27:32 and which was the inspiration for the Elijah story?
Elijah story was probably independent. I'll direct you to Dr. Price's paper "New Testament Narrative as Old Testament Midrash" Gospel of Mark, #18.
"As all acknowledge, the basis for both the miraculous feeding stories in Mark’s gospel is the story of Elisha multiplying the twenty barley loaves for a hundred men in 2 Kings 4:42-44. There is in all three stories the initial assessment of how much food is available, the prophetic command to divide it among a hopelessly large number, the skeptical objection, puzzled obedience, and the astonishing climax in which not only all are fed, but they had leftovers as well! As Helms notes (p. 76), John has gone back to the source to add a detail. He has made the servant (paidarion) of Elisha into a boy (paidarion) whose five barley loaves Jesus uses to feed the crowd (John 6:9).
But there are more elaborate details in Mark’s stories which do not come from 2 Kings. They come from the Odyssey..."
www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_midrash1.htm
love this
In the South we would be want to say: "Jesus is as Jesus Does". We have lots of Christian churches down here, but many of us think it's not much different than a story about Godzilla.I just wish Price had not mentioned his diseased feet covered in socks under sandals. Eck.
+larry wright I'll bet your glad he didn't have jock itch that day ...
Dr. Price could hilariously perform an updated version of Marshall Efron's _Illustrated, Simplified and Painless Sunday School_ .
Theology
There is a heaven, forever day by day
The upward longing of my soul doth tell me so
There is a hell, I’m quite as sure; for pray,
If there were not, where would my neighbors go?
Paul Lawrence Dunbar
He sounds a lot like McKenna
+Pierre00 Not as whiny. McKenna always seemed to speak like he was straining his voice or whining. Price has a similar cadence to his speech but better timbre.
I've heard Dr Price say more than once how exhausting it is to debate religious people. That's got to be one of the biggest understatements of all time. I admire his stamina because I gave up trying to reason with the religious a long time ago. No thanks!
pretty darned cool
lol, how cute! he opens his notes and says: "oh I forgot the Buddha parallels in the Bible, what the hell". Lol.
Lately I've been suspecting that Buddha was also a mythical figure.
He was.
Jesus (roughly 32 years old) is mirrorred from un underlying person back in time, and also mirrorred from place from the west to the east including his nationality; he was a roman not a jew. the historical person did exist but the mirrorred image is so far from the original we better consider it/him a myth.
24:35
My new favourite atheist. Extra points for looking like Grizzly Adams. Id love to see him take a more prominent role in the modern rationality movement but i think he has the humility and integrity not to get involved in areas of debate he is not really specialized in. He is so much more entertaining than Krauss who i find inarticulate, aggressive and sometimes just a nasty, unpleasant guy... its so obvious how/why he is jumping on the new Atheist gravy train $$$.
Price is among the nicest of atheists, he makes me think of Santa. Krauss may be edgy in a debate but in a physics lecture he can be great. He has a lot of enthusiasm and an engaging lecture style.
Insomuch as you treat any/every human being on the earth, you also reflect it directly unto the name of Jesus. That's why all books in the world could never contain it all. Plus it's the reason why people would NOT find Him, yet "go about to kill Him," and He suffers them endlessly---- He's the Holy Spirit, and the whole world won't believed they have deceived themselves!
Actually there is a paradigm which is very consistent in fulfilling the criteria for a non-historical Jesus, whose proofs show up in Jewish works such as the Zohar, Mishnah and Kabbalah, as well as several inferential truths in NT---- all concerning the Holy Spirit--- as the greatest Allegory, the greatest Mystery of all time. This was the 'lamb slain', meekness, personified.
When did translators change the appearances of 'Yahweh' into angels?
I ask because my dad is a crazy christadelphian and some of them believe that there's big importance in angels taking on their god's name as they hope to be those angels themselves in following creations. It'd be hilarious if that was based on changes in the text by translators!
Im super Gay for *Robert Price* and *Randall Carlson*
All the biblical scholar without exception forget often to mention that the religion in the ancient world was a very profitable and ubiquitous industry more than even nowadays, due to all the sort of cults in concurrence. One can realize that in the letters of Paul, how Paul is changing "his gospel and apocalyptic expections" according to the interest of his audience. To the gulliable thessalonians frantic about the end of the era ; Paul tells them a complete different story with trumpets and ludicrous raptures that of to the Corinthians or even Galatians. Every time that arises an issue regarding the authority of Paul in one of his churches, he comes up suspiciously with a revelation to settle down the discussion. Dont you think that all this stuff at the end it is nothing more than selling another cult in a very competitive market ?
I do not think there was one fact in this whole lecture, only many ideas, conjecture, and opinions.
That's his point though - there are no available facts on the historical Jesus, and everything is probabilities and speculation.
Kevin Paul Those things seem to be enough for Christians to claim their God is real and the Jesus was a historical figure, so why aren't they good enough as arguments against it? Oh wait... they are. There is no burden of proof on anyone to prove Jesus wasn't real, the burden of proof is on those who claim he was, which so far they haven't be able to meet.
Also, there were plenty of facts in this talk. Maybe you just weren't listening, or do not know what constitutes a fact.
That's what the religion is to begin with.
+Kevin Paul What a coincidence, I've always thought the very same thing about all religions!!! Well, that's not entirely true....in the case of religions, there's one undeniable fact: They're all total bullshit.
+LinguaNonFranca Well, we have a historical trail. If it simply was nonexistent this wouldn't be. So it could either be all made up, or historical. Now I would be more inclined to say the former IF we had not found the Dead Sea Scrolls. Now things get interesting when we see contradictions inside of this trail. This would normally mean there is one truth. Because if there are two versions of the so called truth, it is more likely that one of them is true than to have both made up. In the bible we have many many contradictions, let's take how Christ died on the cross for example, we have at least 5 contradictions. Not one gospel agrees with the last words of Christ. In this case it be likely that all of them are made up, but logical to assume that they are based on a historical truth - not that Christ died on the cross, but that the story of the death of Christ was based on some historical reality. Check out some of the rest of my replies below, they will cover some of what we are going over.
Sloganeering. I have family members who believe this stuff explicitly and never ever question anything. It is astonishingly dumb. Idol makers.
Ehrman trashed this guy in the 2016 debate. He's a quack
180…!
Yeah he has a medical reason for wearing socks with sandals; It's called "Paternity".
Very good speaker and intelligent in his field. But he's not the cuddly smurf in other aspects of his life. He has very low tolerance for Muslim immigrants and doesn't just like Trump, but reveres him like an Emperor.
perhaps because he has studied Islamic theology
Syngen Smith, Muslims as persons or Islam as an ideology? Every muslim I've met so far has been nice, but Islam, yeah, low tolerance is a good thing.
About a hundred and something million Americans like Trump, and the percentage of those who are nice and cuddly so to speak is probably very nearly exactly the same as the percentage of those who don't like Trump.
Immigration and views thereof is too complex to address here, but plenty of perfectly nice people find themselves on the "Wall" side of the debate, and there are plenty of lousy people on the (according to your side) "good" side. Maybe because it's too complex for politicians to properly address.
Price has studied Islam and AFAIK he has never spoken disrespectfully of Islam, nor can I even imagine him doing it.
IDK what you're talking about, saying he disrespects actual Muslim people or something. I have a hard time believing that too. If nothing else I expect he'd be too civilized to say so.
@@twirlipofthemists3201
Wrong. No, Dr. Price has on many occasions exposed his own ignorance on political theory and economics. He really can't see Trump for what he is and resorts to mudslinging and Fox News talking points. It's one area where Price is glaringly entrenched in his own biases and many of his supporters on Patreon and elsewhere are quick to call him out on it.
... and she, of course a she, got very mad.
All of them early god's have no significance and are proven false god's who's religions died out long ago.I do not see how he makes them so significant today anc try to compare them with Christianity.There are only a hand few of god's that are real significant today and they are dead god's compared to Jesus.The god's he bring up are'nt.
abelcainsbrother They are relevant because they are religions. Just like yours. That was kind of the point, sorry you missed it.
Nobody denies they were religions but they died out long ago and they are not relevant gods today.They have no impact today.
abelcainsbrother
The impact is that the same type of beliefs are being practiced by Christians, but it's just another god in the long list of gods.
Not when Christianity is relevant and the gods he brings up are no longer around.They did not even last as long as Christianity has.
abelcainsbrother So? A lot of people died while still believing in their god, just like you will. Someday, people will say the same thing about Jesus. Not in your lifetime, but eventually.
Remember, the rise of your particular god happened inside the largest empire in the world, and it became the official religion. It's no more special than the idea that our roadways are the same width or the units of weight are standardized. We still call 1,000 Roman marches paces a mile, and we still talk about Jesus. Big deal.
I've heard that 'old lard-arse' is going broke - how sad...