Are Turntables and Vinyl Records Just a Big Scam?
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 12. 2022
- OCD HI-FI Guy Video • THE "AUDIOPHILE" TURNT...
My Audio Gear
Topping DX3Pro+ Dac/Amp amzn.to/3RoZEAR
KEF Q150 amzn.to/3P20Xpu
Wharfedale Linton Speakers amzn.to/3lXOhCy
NAD 316BeeV2 Amp (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3vsuaAE
Topping D10S Dac (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3rwQNmk
Klipsch R-51M Speakers (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3rARDP1
HIFIMAN Sundara (Affiliate Link) Headphones amzn.to/3JS3NcF
Yamaha AS-501 (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3Otx0hI
Fluance RT-85 Turntable (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3uOMBQS
NAD C538 CD Player (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3xDzZOr
Klipsch RP-600M Speakers (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3xEEg4p
Schiit Modi3 Dac (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3jIiGnk
Schiit Magni 3 Headphone Amp (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3OmpcOO
Elac SUB1010 Subwoofer (Affiliate Link) amzn.to/3El29iu
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases
Community Page / youtubefrugaltech
Social
Twitter / frugaltech
LinkedIn / brucenaylor
Amazon Wish List goo.gl/ns3NKT - Věda a technologie
My favorite part of 2022 was when the vinyl audiophile experts who shunned ANYTHING digital discovered that Mobile Fidelity was cutting vinyl WITH a digital step for many years, and it all went unnoticed by the "experts" who said they 100% knew the difference immediately.
I agree laughable really
This goes well before Mofigate. since 1979, it became much cheaper to cut the laquear masters using an audio digital delay in the audio chain instead of an expensive tape playback with multiple playback heads for an analog delay, so to this day, many old pressings may have passed the signal through an ADC>DAC conversion, probably at 16bit or possibly less. impossible to know which pressings.reel2reeltexas.com/vinAd79AmpexATR100ADD1.jpg
@Ozzy Blackbird The "experts" on a certain audiophile forum that for years/decades refused to settle for any recording with a digital step in it and vowed they could spot the difference between an AAA recording and AAD recording immediately...Until they found out they couldn't.
@@crichards1986 I think people would be surprised how most couldn't hear a difference between MP3 and 24bit 192kh files.
Vinyl albums from pre digital days were much better , not even close.
As a now 29 year old, I started collecting records at around 21. I did it not because of any "vinyl revolution" or because it was the "cool thing to do", but because records were so fascinating to me even as a child. They give an experience that can't be replicated!
I love streaming as much as anyone else, but records hold a special place in my heart.
I do not have any vinyls on hand, I do have some cassettes. Analogue , except moving speed, other things are no fair.
@@chuheihkg please do not use vinyls , it’s vinyl.
@@davidspendlove5900👍it’s more than that … I call it a Record or many Records.
I have never called it “Vinyl” or “Vinyls “
@@prashantchutke5521 yes you are correct , I always use records or record.
As you mentioned, enjoying music isn't just about the destination, it's also about the journey to get there. I'm looking behind me at my record collection and I'm happy. When I finish writing this comment, I'll go and choose a record to listen to. Which? I do not know yet. I will browse and surprise myself. That alone, no streamer and no DAC can simulate.
One of the coolest comments I've ever read! Now i wanna throw on an album 😃👍
Yes, it’s the browsing, handling, admiring the artwork on the sleeve, reading the sleeve notes then putting it on to listen to. It all adds to the pleasure. I loved flipping through the records at the store. I have my modest collection stored vertically but I’m going to get them on the top of the rack so I can flip through the records as they’re slanted facing me, just like in the stores. I used to spend so many work lunch times at the record store flipping through them.
As long as in that "destination", you haven't become some significant tweaker that is constantly selling, and refining your gear. I've never met anyone like that who doesn't lament the fact that they let some speaker set, some TT or amp, etc. go at some point. There are always regrets. It's important to upgrade, yes, but not without significant gain. What's much more important is that it's ALL about the music and not just the gear. When you're buying music to just showcase your gear, you've become a gearaholic.
My issue with streaming services is the loss of any physical format. I grew up reading the liner notes on lps and enjoying the amazing artwork of Roger Dean, Hipgnosis, etc. There is an unquantifiable experiential aesthetic dimension that is irretrievably severed for me with streaming music.
Thanks for sharing!
Same me its the same collecting books to Kindle or audio books
Yeah, the well appointed album sleeve was nice, booklets and posters, there is definitely something tangible about unsleeving an LP and dropping a stylus down on it. But no matter how well I handled them, cleaned them, the ever accumulating pops and clicks drove me to CDs in the late 1980s. Nowadays my main complaint about any release is whether or not the original mix and master were done with a critical ear and not whether it sounded "good" on the stock audio system in someone's wank chariot or on $10 earbuds.
Streaming services have continuously dropped the ball with this. I have to assume the writers would somehow more easily get paid for the liner notes vs the musicians for their songs
that's a feature. You get the music without the clutter. If I need information on the release I go online and there are pages and pages of info. One thing I dislike about vinyl collectors is how much stuff they have. Their living space is filled with vinyl. It is just a turn off with all that clutter.
After 40 years of going down the rabbit hole of audio trends and high end equipment I’ve found I love my Oracle Delphi, McIntosh amplifiers and horn speakers. I guess I’ll live in the past.
all good I do the same I use vinatage Ayre equipment from year 2000
Yup love my turntable and playing back through my tube amp.
Tonight I’ve listened to “Nursery Cryme” by Genesis on vinyl, from 1971. The sound… well wow, the sound was just magnificent. Rich and deep in the mid and low bass. Clear and exciting in the higher sounding guitar, keyboard and vocals…. I’ve also got this album on CD and I will not, can not, fault it. It’s just that the vinyl gives me goose bumps and a feeling that digital doesn’t. I’m not a sound engineer or a sound expert of any kind, in any way, shape or form, at all. I’m just an ordinary guy…
For those of us whose teenage years were in the 70's it's a fun way to enjoy and re-live the past a bit. Besides my first joint and getting laid there was nothing more exhilarating than peeling off the plastic of your new vinyl record(s) that you saved up for or worked hard for at the local food joint etc... Producers and artists took time and pride to place their music in certain order on their records. My 24 year old daughter didn't get it until she was out in the dining room studying one day and I put on a Doobies album and played it through.. She hugged me afterwards and told me she finally got it. Now she has a few albums of her own and listens to them all the way through. A digital file is not something you feel you own.. a vinyl record is tangible and real.
I've collected vinyl since i was about 6 or 7 and throughout the years (55 of them) I've always kept a turntable in my system.
I was wowed in the 80s and 90s by the clear sound of CDs and the fact that I didn't have to cross your fingers and hope on the first listen that there were no, or very few imperfections.
I've recently started buying new viny, upgraded my deck and pre-ampl that does now sound really good.
For me listening to a good vinyl is like drinking a cup of tea from a China cup as opposed to from a mug, the mug being a CD, they probably don't sound ever so different but it just feels so much nicer!
I have never noticed a significant difference in quality between an LP and a CD, except for one thing: my CDs do not have the constant annoying pops and clicks. Yes, there are more effective record washing systems available now then there were 30 or 40 years ago but, why on earth would I want to go to the expense and hassle of doing that only to have to go back to the turntable 20 minutes later to flip the record?
I have both, streaming with Qobuz and a Technics SL-1500C turntable. Overall system is approaching $10k. In the beginning streaming was better, no question, especially when I had a cheap LP60 turntable. However, as I’ve upgraded things along the way the analog side has improved dramatically and it’s pretty much a toss up now that depends on the master or quality of pressing. The turntable is way more fun and engaging and I use that way more than I ever thought I would. I also tend to listen to an entire album versus just a song in a playlist and get to know the artist body of work better.
That is quite a luxury to be able to spend $10k on something that doesn’t sound any better.
Love your outlook on this subject. To me the worst part of the vinyl resurgence is all the nonsense about tracking down the myriad of pressings from every corner of the earth. I’m old and in my day we went to the record store and bought LPs, took them home and played them. I have a few thousand LPs and I also have a Streamer/Dac set up with some very decent amps, speakers and CD players along with a middling record player. With all that in mind I say “Who cares?” There are differences for sure but it’s about the songs. I collect songs.
It's not about sound quality its about feelings and "communion" with the music and system. That's why people like vinyl
I think this is why people like live music rather than vinyl or any form of recorded sound.
Ive spent 99% of my music life listening to FM radio, Vinyl on a low end system in the '80s, and listening via my car stereo. Now with steaming services, I upgraded to Schiit Fulla and AT M50x headphones and mostly listen via computer and mobile equipment. Most of my music is classic rock so there is not a huge amount of subtly to listen for. The jump has been dramatic and Good enough sound in is good enough! Some folks have more important things in life to spend money on.. Like RETIREMENT
Obviously, streaming music is the most “convenient” way to listen to music. You can search almost any song ever made and start listening to it immediately BUT, records offer a totally different experience. When I was a kid, looking at the covers of an album, tearing the plastic off, opening it up and reading the liner notes, sometimes the lyrics, looking at band photos and artwork, that entire process added to the anticipation, excitement and experience. It gave you a perspective and perhaps even an emotional connection that you just don’t get otherwise. We didn’t buy albums based on their “sound fidelity”, we bought them because we loved the music, the band and the possibility of maybe getting to see them live in concert!
Back in the 90's when nobody wanted vinyl I had a great time snatching up albums for two or three dollars a piece. But I confess that when I was introduced to Rhapsody in 2004 I went all in on streaming. Since 2015 I've been using Spotify. I know vinyl has the "warmer" sound, and I can hear the difference. But for the convenience and massive quantity available, I prefer streaming. But I'd never criticize anyone who is into vinyl. Enjoy the music on whichever format sounds appealing to you.
get audio-gd R8HE mk2 you will hear analog like sound out of digital real eye opener
Streaming sucks.....and movie streaming sucks even harder.
My digital has a warmer sound than my turntable.
This is contentious and very subjective.
@@davidspendlove5900 Belt drive CD player? Don't laugh.....they're a thing. CEC make them. Otherwise, you're full of digital shit.
Its easy to say digital is superior than analog but the format is not the most important part the mastering is. Vinyl because of its limitations cannot have overuse of compression like cds or streaming so usually vinyl will have a little more care in the mastering department. It is not a cheap hobby by any means to properly keep the records clean and track the amount of hours on the cartridge to prevent damage to your precious albums.
Dont forget Vinyl can play frequencies below 20Hz, CD cannot, get a sub and bask in those low frequency rumbling goodness
In 1985 my wife surprised me with a CD player and four CDs. The CDs were harder to find than the player. I sold most of my vinyl and never looked back. I bought my first integrated amp in 1975 so I have been around a while. I think that turntables are awesome but vinyl sucks. LOL Oddly enough my son is 38 and he loves vinyl. Weird. I'm glad you and your wife are feeling better and Happy New Year!
Thanks so much Mike!
No, most cartridges suck.
Ouch!, sold your Vinyl, if only you had heard a great turntable setup.
I love the sound of vinyl but vinyl is hard work. Records get dirty and dirt becomes noise
@@stevemurrell6167 no, lots of vinyl sucks as well. Got a copy of Blue Note's Tribute to Leonard Cohen. The pressing was horrible. Weird gravely distortion was so bad I demanded they send me another copy, which they did. This one is better, no distortion, but still has way too many pops and clicks than ANY album should have much less Blue Note. And this is just one example. (Yes, I also get great vinyl, Eva Cassidy's Live at Blues Alley by Blix Street Records is gorgeous) Oh and a note, while my TT is not high end, I do not consider Pro-Ject Debut and an Ortofon 2M Red to be bottom end or entry level either. If I have a choice I would pick an SACD over a vinyl album any day of the week.
This is an interesting question. For sure, anything mastered and mixed in digital, especially today, is going to sound so much better. I don't know anything about warmth, but I know that when I own a record, I own art. I just purchased J.Cole's "Forest hills" record on vinyl for a pretty penny, and having the physical version of it is much different than just having some music files on a computer. I think of some of my favorite records as pure works of art, and there's something unique and special about owning a physical copy that doesn't compare to files on a PC.
Yes, the artwork is a big part of collecting. Happy spinning!
Not if you have subwoofers, CD's are cut off at 20Hz, Vinyl goes right down to 1 Hz, you FEEL those low frequencies that adds a new dimension.
Treat yourself to a better record deck (Try a 2nd hand Systemdek iix-for around £200 with a rega arm like rb250/300 and shure V15iii) and I think you wont play another CD if you have a ecent vinyl collection, its that good.
@@engjds I have a below average Tesla turntable for free (that's £0 or $0) and I've noticed some records sound better than digital but some sound the same or rarely worse. It's the records that matter not what you're playing them on (unless it's some modern piece of junk). I can compare it easily since I have a computer connected to the turntable (Tesla Dominant 1039A)
@@KofolaDealer Have you listened to better turntables?
Have had a Linn LP12, Linn Basic, and now a Systemdek iix, each one sounded different, same with CD players, the last two marantz have sounded better than previous ones I have owned from Sony etc.
I think the bottleneck in 99% of peoples systems is the loudspeaker, get that right and you will notice differences between sources, pay as much as you can on the speakers and build around that is my advice. I remember having old Mission 760's which were ok at the time, Tannoy M4's which had lots of bass but soft with no hard hitting ability, then Opera Duetta which were really hard hitting and lush sound, then finally the Jamo Concert 8's which to me tick all the boxes, yet all that time I have only bought about 3 amps, I am still using a old Pioneer A400 which was a highly reviewed one from a few decades ago oin the 1980's, still sounds great even on superspeakers-can pick one up for £100 2nd hand now and it still sounds better than many £1000+ amps, because it was built at a time when companies didnt cost cut to the penny and actualy make hifi for music lovers rather than markjeting people.
@@engjds What kind of speakers do you have that reproduce 1 Hz and what kind of recording setup can capture 1 Hz?
I purchased my first HiFi stereo system back in 1971 at the Navy Exchange in Yokosuka Japan. That's all I could afford at that time as a young sailor. The system included a Pioneer SX-770 receiver, a Sony TC-366 Reel to Reel Tapecorder, a Sony TC-127 Stereo Cassette-Corder, two Pioneer CS-66 loudspeakers and various accessories. I still listen to music on the system to this day. Later on I bought a BIC 960 belt drive turntable, which I still own. It's not working though. I'm in the process of repairing my Sony TC-366 Reel to Reel and TC-127 Cassette-Corder, so they are both out of commission at the moment. The entire system still sounds quite good to me after 50+ years. I never replaced the caps on my receiver and surprisingly the lights still work. It still sounds just fine with no hum or buzzing. I've cleaned it regularly though. Recently I've been listening to streaming music from my smart phone through my Pioneer receiver. It sounds quite clear on the entire spectrum. About 25 years ago I bought a Sony PS-X55 turntable for 5 bucks at an estate sale. It was just like new. It still performs flawlessly and sounds amazing. In my opinion, listening to and enjoying music is not all about whether the source is digital or analog and which sounds better, but it's about the overall experience of playing music from my own media, no matter what format it is or what device I am playing it on. It's analogous to driving your favorite car, even if it's an old beater. lol. Throughout my teen years and for all of my adult life, much of the HiFi gear I owned was what's now considered to be vintage HiFi gear. It's not vintage to me, but perfectly normal, familiar and timeless. Vintage HiFi gear takes me back to my youth somewhat, so I can re-experience some of the emotions I felt as a young rock n roll enthusiast. I also enjoy listening to streaming digital music and CDs. So it's all good! 😊There is something really satisfying about playing music on a turntable that requires me to mount the vinyl record, adjust the pots and switches and manipulate the tonearm. It's fun to watch the platter spin too. Besides that, vintage HiFi gear looks really cool and I don't need a remote control to operate them. lol. Anyway. That's my humble opinion. Take care. 😎
thanks for sharing
Oddly, I do not listen to LP Records because they sound better. For me, it is a combination of things.
1. Nostalgia, this is an intangible feeling that is not there when listening to Spotify or some other digital format.
2. Have you ever spent time in meditation? Perhaps, played with a Japanese Sand Garden? LP's are my Sand Garden.
3. The process. See above for Sand Garden reference. I get to connect with the music in a visceral way. Clean the vinyl, adjust the needle (perhaps swap the cartridge, yes, I have 6 cartridges)
3a. I also have multiple Vintage Turntables, each with a unique sound and historical relevance.
4. I enjoy my old LP's and also collecting obscure LP's. I have several records that were limited in number and are rare.
I listen to lots of digital music as well. I have tens of thousands of songs in digital formats, I bought some more last night at Bandcamp.
LP's are special and there is a time and place for them.
The need for someone to downplay or simply refuse to understand relevance of a medium is IGNORANCE of the highest order. imho.
It's just like car people. People like old cars because they are fun, not because they run the best.
I agree with what you said in your post. But I buy my bandcamp stuff on cassette 😅
I recently dug out my old Pioneer PL 530 and hooked it up for my 15 yer old. He is now fascinated with playing records and his choice of first album to play was Dark Side of the Moon ( happened to be my first record I bought when I was his age). in fact for his birthday all of his friends crowded into his room to play records or they were out in the living room, guitars in hand or at the drum set making their own music, the video games never came out so that was a huge plus. One of the boys made a great observation of music in the digital age, he said : "People take music for granted because it's always with them in the background no matter what they are doing. Back in the day people had to take time out to sit and listen to a record so music was appreciated more than today."
Vinyl forces you to do just that sit and listen, pay attention, flip the record when it's time so it's a bit more fun than streaming because you have to actually involve yourself with each record and actively participate in the process.
I flipped to CDs in 1988, after picking up a MM in flute performance. And, I've not looked back. In 2019, I flipped to streaming only. I appreciate the better (for me) fidelity and EASE of use on my aging hands. I'll happily tweak things using DSP. And no, I don't miss vinyl since it was such a PITA to care for.
On the subject of what audio format sounds best, I lean towards none. I like to think of music as "auditory art", and when it comes to format preference I like to refer to "visual art" as a comparative analogy. A picture can be created in many mediums and still be visually compelling. One can appreciate the detail and clarity of a pen & ink drawing just as much as the same subject created in softer pencil or pastels. It's all art and can be viewed and appreciated despite the use of vastly different medias. I feel the same about music. Having variety and choice in it's presentation is always better than being forced toward a single format (i.e. presentation). To think otherwise would be to support a very narrow view, if not borderline fascist (my opinion). It's fine and well to have a personal opinion, but anyone criticizing others for not sharing their (opinion), displays an unattractive level of immaturity.
Hope you & yours are feeling better! Great vid...our holiday was pretty much the same as yours lol
Thank you
Thanks Bruce
Great video glad your felling better Happy new year to you as well .
Happy New Year
remember when you were a kid and you had a fidelity( generic turntable) record player, with a stack of singles on it and a coin on top of the arm to stop it from jumping. This was the best listening experience wasn't it eh, when we knew no different 🙂
I fell in love, and made a lifelong bond, with music on just such a setup. I don'5t have it now to check, but I'm sure if I listened to it today I'd acknowledge it sounded terrible. But back then, it was magic. I went through a phase of being an audiophile, spent a lot of money, and got myself a sweet sounding setup. Then life events happened and I geared back. But what I noticed is that a lot of the time, as an audiophile, I was listening to the equipment, not the music. I was sweating the hi-hat, the soundstage, the separation of instruments over the songs themselves. I was somewhat distracted from the central purpose - to love my music. Since then I make big efforts to turn off audiophile concerns. There's always someone who has a better system than you do, but what I really want/need is a system that is pleasant to listen to on which I can playback the music I love. I don't want to be an audiophile if that gets in the way.
@@MaterLacrymarum I completely understand you and I have been on the same journey.
The speaker cables or whatever become the music. I think we listen better and harder when we spend money on something.
I noticed and am sure that you have that once you are aware of certain details or nuances revealed by the “expensive” system. You can them hear them on most music devices.
Yes, I did have fun with equipment and I still do, but we have stay mindful about what it’s really all about
Ignorance was bliss but was it really ignorance? The more we learn the less satisfied we become. It's best to keep things simple.
I have expensive turntables but I love finding older, simpler turntables in great condition. There are so many vintage tables that provide a wonderful experience. Very satisfying.
@@alanrogs3990 yes, you’ve got me thinking, I’ve probably become more ignorant as I’ve got older but without even realising it. As a kid I didn’t even know what ignorant meant 🙂
@@jarrahdrum Maybe not ignorant but more critical (just like me) and then one day you just realize you're chasing something that never ends.
I have a system of many things that I could be completely satisfied with I bought off ebay over the years and the total is less than $500.
I’ve got 20 turntables. Didn’t spend more than $100 on any one of them. But I refurbished them myself. 155 vintage cartridges. 4,000+ vinyl records that I inherited from my folks; my mother worked for Columbia Records 1954-1967. Been spinning since 1965. Awesome music quality! Many not seen from streaming services. So listening to vinyl records needn’t be expensive. It’s superior to digital streaming in pure listening enjoyment. It’s interactive also. Many choices to make. It’ll never be obsolete, except by those who value convenience over listening quality. I have 4 Denon servo arm tables, plus a JVC QL Y5F. Also Gerrards and Hitachis. Technics also.
Help! I need a decent mono cartridge. I use a modest Technics SL-Q3 with a Denon 110 MC, but have tried higher end decks with little to no inhancmenet.
@@Brian-qg8dg Why do you need a decent mono cartridge? And do you mean an “electrically mono” cartridge, or a TRUE mono cartridge? What are you trying to achieve? What type of mono records are you referring to? 78 rpm, or microgroove?
I totally agree that hobbies are meant to be enjoyed and that sometimes means making personal choices that aren't 100% rooted in logic. I mean, you select your music based on your feelings, so the playback process shouldn't be immune from what 'feels best.' Now, regarding vinyl, I agree that people shouldn't get into it if they don't have a good reason to. It's a fiddly, expensive hobby and much of what is being pressed today doesn't come close to the quality we had back in the day. Every time something new arrives, I'm afraid it's going to be off-center, noisy or damaged, and that the mastering will sound awful. However with digital, there are a LOT of recordings where today's files have been re-processed and compressed and an old analog copy is the only way to hear it as intended. The way digital has been abused is just sad. And reel to reel? Good luck building much of a catalog. If you want to make your own tapes, then fine, it sounds great, but you're not really getting closer to the masters if you can't find the recordings without making them yourself.
Honestly, an album recorded from vinyl to open reel tape will sound better than a pre recorded tape of the same album anyway because they were mostly recorded at 3.75 inches per second which is pretty low quality. Having said that, I love my ReVox B77, but I do listen to my vinyl much more.
Yes that is true about Reel to Reel . I am looking for affordable Second Generation Masters at 15 IPS Two track
When the "grid" goes down. Records will survive .
vinyl pound for pound at it highest point is possibly the greatest sound. however it is harder in my opinion to get to that point with gear in general. you must in my experience spend more to get the best from vinyl as it is do digital. thanks. great video. get well soon. happy new year!
Depends on the recording and how it's mastered. I use vinyl and CD. Heck, and cassette, minidisc and 8track. So long as it's not too wow and fluttery and keeps pitch, I'm happy.
A bit of hiss doesn't bother me, but bad digital is awful. Those early noughties Bowie CD remasters with 'No-noise' tape hiss eradication instantly spring to mind! Flat as Morrissey on a comedown!! :)
Now MiniDisc is still my on the go medium of choice. It gives me a similar buzz to vinyl but I've yet to find a convenient way of playing my vinyl in the car or when on the train. CDs were OK for the car but the portable CD walkmans were too big and had a tendency to skip. Cassette walkmans eat through batteries and anyone who's used cassettes will have some horror story of how their favourite tape got chewed up. MiniDisc batteries last for 12 or more hours and can be recharged. The discs themselves are so resilient that even when abused by teenagers they still continue to work flawlessly some 20 years later. I must admit that in the last five years I have bought far too many MiniDisc machines. I do change which one I use every now and then but I think around 50 is probably too many. They seem to be selling for quite high prices now, maybe I should sell a few.
In the mid eighties we were all told to ditch vinyl because CD had arrived. 30 years later we are told to ditch CD and go back to vinyl. Of course it's a scam end ov
A lot of my vinyl collection was lost many years ago. Back then, for me, in the seventies, vinyl was the main medium. Also, many albums are not available in any other format, nor are they being pressed, hence second-hand stores. If you are lucky you might find them on CD.
I think one of the most important aspect of being an audiophile, is the ability to interact with the physics of the sound. From room acoustics to speaker placement, materials, cables, filters, components, the list goes on and on all the way to The Source. With vinyl, boy, there's a lot to play with. Cartridges, tonearms, mats, phono preamps, damping feet, arm balancing, record cleaning, etc. And you have to do these with your hands! You're in control! The sonic quality depends on all these things you do yourself. Compare this craftsmanship of sound to a digital streamer. It's a little computer receiving and sending bits from a server to a DAC. It's software is a brilliant piece of scientific and software engineering magnificence. But you cannot interact with it physically or change how it sounds. It's completely enclosed within the digital domain. Yeah, you can switch DACs or even buy audiophile ethernet cables, but that's it. Technically, you can build your own streamer, but that's mostly meddling with software, and it's not really part of the audiophile realm.
Always been super interested in this particular debate. My own background is that I am a professional musician, writer and producer, with 30 years of playing and producing professional music. But at heart, I’m still a massive music fan. I became interested in hifi around the mid ‘70s and bought my first system by saving up every penny I earned and buying my system piece by piece. When CDs burst onto the market, rather than ditching all of my vinyl collection like most of my friends, I bought myself a Linn Sondek LP12 turntable, thinking that I would rather invest in making my records sound as good as they possibly could. And I bought myself a CD player. I realised even then that I didn’t need to “pick a team” in terms of digital vs analogue, because I could enjoy both. And they are different. Something to also point out in this debate is that there are many degrees of sonic grey area between analogue and digital anyway. Some digital processing started being used in the recording process itself during the mid ‘70s and since then, we have recordings made to tape but digitally mastered and pressed to vinyl, digitally recorded & mastered music pressed to vinyl, analogue recordings mastered for CD etc etc. You get where I’m coming from. I would also argue that ultimately whether or not we enjoy the music being presented to us is less about whether the music was recorded to tape or digital but more about the skill and artistry of the engineer and producer and mastering engineer. But still, I always find this topic interesting. Very well presented video and well argued sir. It’s nice to see any kind of debate on CZcams that is as respectful as yours.
It’s very peculiar how good vinyl could sound
Although I owned one of the first CD players (by Kyocera), I also had a large collection of 78s and LPs in my youth, so vinyl was a natural. At the time, I had two turntables, a Technics for playing 78s and an Oracle belt-driven turntable for LPs. Years went by without either turntable, but just bought a Technics SL1210G to start playing both 78s and vinyl again. Love it. Just can't find some of the same repertoire on CD!
Nothing wrong with having both vinyl and cd , that’s what I do
78s can sound remarkably good.
@@davidspendlove5900 Totally agree on the old 78's. Get the right stylus to fit the coarse groove and a whole another world of sound "jumps out". I like listening to the old Victor (pre RCA) recordings.
well said - keep it up ! I remember hearing an expensive digital playback of a Whitney Houston track. you could hear the minutest details in her voice. it was amazing. then i heard the same song on vinyl and was hit by the emotion in her voice...
One aspect of analog mastering are direct to disc albums, the better ones are quite dynamic and lively and when the opportunity arises I will usually purchase one. Companies such as Sheffield Labs among others created some excellent recordings. Beyond that the equipment I use, mostly vintage, are mid fi but with proper matching and setup are definitely quite rewarding and I have found without exception that any originally analog recording transferred to digital media has never been able to match the, shall we say, organic and involving sound that a record conveys. I feel the one area in particular where well mastered all digital recordings can excel are Classical recordings. The wide dynamics inherent with a full orchestra can be more fully utilized. No annoying pops or clicks during quiet passages is a blessing admittedly.
Even high end components can sound rather lacklustre when in a acoustically dead room so there is definitely an involved holistic approach involved which takes knowledge and experience unfortunately. Most of us aware of this found out the hard way but the end result is an enjoyable experience.
I still enjoy modern all digital recordings on CDs but find myself choosing analog much more often. I do use good quality components such as Luxman, NAD and KEF among others, the original KEF 105.1 Reference speakers from the late '70's are a favourite of mine, not the last word in detail and accuracy in comparison to more recent designs but their ability to convey the music is addictive and of course they were voiced with what was prevalent at the time, analog.
Many die hard audiophiles prefer belt drive turntables but I have found the higher end direct drive designs from the mid 1970's to early 1980's to be excellent performers. What has been described as the " golden age " for these offerings out of Japan. Dead accurate with specifications that at least allow one to have a taste of good analog reproduction.
The only truly modern piece I have is a Vincent SV 236 MK hybrid integrated amplifier which is excellent sounding, all the more so with the Chinese 12AX7 pre amp tubes replaced with, what else, some vintage early 1960's Tungsrams. Now it has a smoother and very musical presentation. Coincidence?
One more thought - there are many vintage receivers and amplifiers that came with very good if not exceptional phono circuits which even more recent and relatively expensive phono preamps would be hard pressed to surpass in sound quality which speaks volumes on the effort quite a few audio companies put into their products during the heyday of analog reproduction.
Thanks for this. My Marantz 2230 phono stage is the best I have heard so far!
I think vinyl done right cut directly from analog master tape sounds good, in order to get better from digital sound good dac needs to be used like audio-gd RE8HE MK2, this dac converts digital to analog with analog like quality, more like triode quality and I had many different DACs in my stem in the past including Denafrips T2, Pontus2 and many chip based dacs
Vinyl has its place and is useful but $35 records and $5000 turntables are a scam.
I agree
The problem with Mikey's mindset is that his Dac is $30,000, and to some that would be an even bigger scam.
Great talk, 100% true :)
Being a long time music producer, I agree: digital can sound better than vinyl in some cases, or vice-versa. It all depends on how the music was mastered, how it was transferred from the master tape to digital domain. Also, playing a vinyl would induce micro distortions on the path to the speakers, perceived as "warmth", "openness" or whatever the word is used to describe this electric phenomenon. This doesn't happen when playing a CD, that's why digital is perceived as "cold".
And at 8:05 is the real truth, being an audiophile doesn't mean at any point how much did you spend on gear.
Mikey once responded to me saying that he could hear the difference between a CD transport being played back through his DAC, vs the same exact file saved on a hard drive on a server being sent to the same DAC (with the transport sounding worse). Thats where I started wondering on his perspective on things. There is an element of pragmatism, if you own a bunch of CDs or Records and you'd like to get the best out of them, you'll probably spend what you feel comfortable with to get it sounding the best it can. To have to pay some company to stream to you a library which may or may not contain all the music you already own, or want to own, seems like another unnecessary monthly fee if you already have most of what you want. What if internet goes down? If you have all the music saved on a server, that works, but how does that music get there, if not saved from a physical media or gotten over the internet?
I've never heard a streamer sound as good as a good CD player. I have never heard a streamer as a transport into a good dac sound as good as a good CD transport in to the same dac.
@@davidspendlove5900 you’re just as bad as this Mikey guy. You’re only hearing the difference in mastering. The CD is different than the stream. That’s it my guy
@@mikechivy You are absolutely correct about mastering.
Never had a Tandberg TD20A or SE? 2 track 15 IPS?
Vinyl has a warmth that make your ears feel good to snuggle up in the music. Now if your vinyl has pops and dirty no it does not sound good. I guess it all depends on your ears being good that you truly can hear the difference.
Would I go vinyl? If I had time to make sure the records were clean, I would. I will be okay with CDs and old tapes, spend money on great speakers with good electronics. Happy New year!
The only thing I have against CD's is you can hardly find then anywhere unless you order them online from Amazon. I used to get CD's from Wal-Mart, or from FYE in the mall, but the last time I was in Wal-Mart, they only had maybe 10 CD's on the whole rack, and they completely closed down the music store in the mall. The only place I've been able to find any good CD's is at Barnes & Nobles, and they're mainly a bookstore. It seems these days you can find vinyl records easier than CD's, which is why I've been considering buying a vinyl record player and some vinyl records. The only problem with that is, I don't really have anywhere to keep vinyl records.
People concentrate on the medium when in reality there's something more important - mastering. Vinyl has lots of limitations which are undeniable. Bass response varies from the out grooves to the inner. Push the bass too much and the record will skip. The dynamic range is much less than a CD can do. Let alone the running time. Mastering for Vinyl is always a compromise to complete freedom. BUT - if you handler these compromises well, you can made a sweet sounding record. THAT is what people like. You can easily test this by doing a Vinylrip - the digital copy will sound exactly the same, same tone, same warmth. With digital, you have far less restrictions. More dynamic range, you're able to compress it to whatever degree you choose, essentially endless running times. BUT - mastering engineers and labels lost their mind. They compressed the hell out of a lot of music on CD, so it sounds terrible. This is a CHOICE being made. It's not a limitation of digital, it's a decision someone is making. CD should sound better than Vinyl. But sadly, it doesn't do so often enough. Why? Because it's the fashion to blast music out without dynamics. It's a fashion to make it loud and in your face. One can argue that digital is better - as I would - but at the same time you have to acknowledge that choices are made by labels to release inferior digital versions because it just seems to be the way most people want to hear their music.
Wow. Someone who actually gets me nearly 100%. Kudos ! 👏 let me comment by saying the connection to the music is by FAR, most important. I never said analog was stupid or dumb. Look at my recent vid at the record store. I LOVE records !!! I simply won't start the collection knowing myself and how much I'll spend. PLUS, I have a $24K DAC which leaves me wanting for nothing more. Same with the 24 people I've sold them to. My opinion is with a cheap DAC, vinyl is nearly always more organic and nice to listen to. It's a very tricky feat finding DACs that are NOT cold and analytical... thanks for the Vid Bruce! It IS a good conversation! #ocdhifiguy
Thank you so much. I appreciate your comment and would love to chat with you sometime
I like flexibility in listening and some dubbing. Must have LPs, CD (2)-one vintage DENON and a newer TASCAM CD recorder), cassettes and a small digital audio player. Besides connections to a vintage NAD integrated amp , digital outs on some of the components are now going into a new headphone amp/DAC (which has no pre or line out). All mid end., I guess.
I was born in 1967 so I grew up listening to LP's and tapes. CDs came along and I started collecting those and listening to the hype about how they are so much cleaner and clear and you would hear things you never heard before in the music. I didn't think a whole lot about it and the CDs were much easier to take with you and eventually listen to in vehicles. But I always missed what I thought was the better sound with a great vinyl LP.
I got into what I call rarities collecting, AKA bootlegs, and collecting live concerts and studio outtakes and things that had not been officially released. I was trading through my website CDs or really CDRs at a very fast rate. I really enjoyed it and I wasn't thinking about the whole which sounds better topic too much. But I had eye surgeries in 2001 that left me legally blind and I was stuck at home after that much of the time. The internet was still not what we have today and I started noticing that the CDs seem to be lacking in that warmth and fullness of sound.
I had to take about a 2-year break before I got back into the bootleg collecting but when I did internet speeds had gotten a lot faster and things like torrent sites we're becoming popular where you could get the lossless FLAC copies of the shows and not have to deal with the US Post Office who seem to be going downhill. And during this time, and as I got some vision back, I started getting into the audio technical side of things looking at the files I was getting. I noticed that a lot of what people had been trading in the later part of the '90s were actually mp3 sourced CDs. It got me to really start paying attention to what I was listening to and try to tell if something really sounded better or worse to me.
I just got back into vinyl collecting about 2 years ago and I've wanted to do that ever since the first few years of buying CDs. Like I mentioned, I always enjoyed the LP sound and so much more than just the sound. I'm not a person that hates CDs but I do like to have the audio I get in the highest bit rate and sample rate I can just for the purpose of building my own projects and using the highest quality audio. So I don't have a problem with digital, but I do think that analog LPs sound better to my ears anyway.
I wish I had been able to get a turntable and started collecting LPs again way before 2 years ago. I still bought LPs all throughout the time I was collecting digital formats as well as CDRs. But I just didn't have a turntable to play DLPs on for a few decades. But I knew one day I would get one again and I'm glad that time finally came.
Each person has their own preferences and I don't slam anybody's preference. A lot of people can't hear the difference between an MP3 sourced file and a high resolution vinyl recording or file. I don't think it's that they can't hear it but they just haven't trained themselves or paid close enough attention to be able to notice it. But to me, even with the snap, crackle, and pop occasionally, I definitely prefer vinyl over any of the previous formats through the years. And I like the nostalgia that comes with vinyl collecting too.
I had no idea that vinyl was on such an upswing when I got back into collecting it again. And I'm so glad that is the case currently! I take very good care of the vinyl I have and I try to keep it as clean and noise free as I can. But even when there is some noise that is unwanted, it doesn't subtract from my opinion that it still is a better sounding source for the music.
A CD is limited to 44.1 kHz/16-bit audio. Now there have been some LPs that have been pressed with this lower sample and bitrates but normally that's not the case and especially with the older, original LPs. I can get a high quality, usually 96 KHz/24-bit rip from an LP that I can use in creating a DVD - A disc. Sure that's all digital too except for the LP source. But that doesn't bother me. I do prefer the all analog sound but often times you cannot tell a difference if something has a digital step in it like a lot of today's LPs do. I'm not going to say there's nobody out there that can tell but I do think it's highly unlikely. I will still buy an LP now as opposed to a CD. But I have no problems buying a CD if I can't find or get the LP either. But as I keep saying, I prefer the vinyl source for my music over everything else! I've considered getting an SACD player but I don't think I want one. I'm happy with my vinyl LPs! Thanks for the video.
Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
You are so so so so correct sir. I can add a simple point and that is vinyals add a body to the source which is actually so good for all the frequencies.
Listening to what was said. And being a former drummer and understanding how things are recorded. The real issue was this, if the recording in the studio is done badly. It will not matter how you master it it will turn out bad other on CD or on vinyl and tape. As far as a good medium goes I don't like streaming. Now, streaming does give you the freedom to take yourself anywhere you want to, but as far as I'm concerned vinyl is the best way to go. Why because older vinyl recordings are usually done well as far as the original recording goes. Especially back in the 40s and the '50s and '60s they took the time to actually record material. Who had people that were well trained and how to handle the equipment that they had at the time.
CDs are okay, but I just find that all they did with it is use it to replace the vinyl. You could stick a CD player in your car listen to the CD on the road just like you would a cassette back in the day. But there is a problem with tapes. They can wear down a lot faster than final does. The sound of the recording actually changes because the tapes are worn down. What most people don't know is that all the old rock and rollers like led Zeppelin for example. Took all their massive recordings and had the digitize them. In order to restore an old tape they just about microwave the things and once they did that the original Master tape for useless. So those analog recordings were lost to some degree. If they had a copy of that master then it might survive but everything had to be changed over to digital because the tapes were either being lost or destroyed.
To some degree as far as an opinion goes. Audiophiles really can't tell the difference between vital and digital, vinyl I mean. You really have to know what to listen for in order to know the difference. Just like someone who has to be well trained and knowing the different notes that are being played in accord. One has to have ear training to know what something should sound like. I have listened to a lot of live recordings and I can tell the good ones from the bad ones because I know what to listen for. I can hear musicians make mistakes in life recordings and I know they made mistakes even when it's not obvious to most people but I can hear it. Why, because I'm a train musician, ex drummer that is. Most audio files again couldn't tell you the difference between a vinyl and a digital recorder if they were blindfolded they don't really know what to listen for. The truth of the matter is. Does it sound good to them that's the issue. The other part of that is is it well recorded to begin with. So as far as I'm concerned, I would rather have a vinyl recording over digital and streaming. One more thing, when you do stream something you actually have some signal loss and degradation within that signal, but no one would know the difference because you couldn't really hear it but it is there. Vinyl and CD are the best mediums for playback. You don't have the kind of signal loss that you would in streaming.
Still like my Pioneer 518 & Pioneer receiver 780. Old but stay works for me. Like reading the alum covers too while listening to records
I have been playing vinyl records since I was 4 or 5 years old. I usually purchased used vinyl because I had old systems to play them on. Nowadays I purchase both new and previously used vinyl albums which sometimes the new vinyl is a hit and sometimes a miss. One misconception is that the sound wave is in the groove, the groove guides the needle to correct place in order to hear the music, the groove has a proper place to provide the resonance for how the media is played. Look at it this way, if you play a record on a modern magnetic style cartridge where the tracking force is between .5 and 2.5 grams you will hear more distortion from the outer surface of the record than when you play on a ceramic cartridge which generally tracks at 5 to 6 grams. My rule of thumb when purchasing records is buy them from the actual recording distributor the artist is currently signed to or was signed to, the distributor has everything to loose if the recording sounds horrible. A new company may be able to find the original mix recording for the artist, they can also add their own twist to it, have a loss between conversions to CD or record, or they can be spot on. Records i hate are from secondary companies where they take and digitize the songs, place them on a vinyl that is not of quality which can be colored or pictured, and all you hear is scraping on the record song fade in off time, or even lower media sound. One record I had got to about the 3rd song and then skipped practically all way through it, didn't even have one spot on vinyl record there was defective. My recommendation is buy a vintage ceramic cartridge record player, used older vinyl, doesn't even need to be mint, you can clean up vinyl records very well with all the new ways of cleaning them, and with the heavier tracking of the cartridge, you can enjoy the album with fewer pops or hisses plus not need to clean records as thoroughly as with modern technology turntables. Just make sure turntable stays properly greased and flowing with all the mechanical parts to avoid sampling the motor or gear noises through cartridge.
You don't need a ceramic cartridge to track that heavy. My Shure SC35c cartridge can track up to 5 grams, and it does on my Rek O Kut B12T table. People would be surprised at the amount of power a 5 gram tracking weight can pull out of the vinyl and cause no damage. Amazing!
Well said. Audio is the whole sensory experience: sound, aesthetics, touch, memory (nostalgia for vintage equipment). 👍🎧🎶
Great video!! I have a Cambridge Audio AXR100 Receiver, a Cambridge Audio CD player and the Cambridge CVN-V2 Streamer, and a Pro-Ject Evo Carbon turntable in to Wharfedale Lintons and i couldn't be happier! But i will say, the streamer is just fantastic!! Good times!
Thanks for sharing!
I purchased a Denon DP 40F Turntable when I was in high school. Still have it. Rarely use it, but it definitely is a piece of art. Love my digital stuff.
Fellow dinosaur here. I bought my first record in 1956, when I was 5 and I still have it, along with 99% of all the records I have bought new. I've also been crate digging for 50 years and have amassed a large collection of 78s, 45s and LPs. My last crate dig purchase was last week. I have two reel to reels up and running and use them to listen to tapes I made in the '60s and '70s.
Your Denon is a wonderful turntable and I'm glad you had the chance to pick up the dream deck of your youth. I've had a similar chance and now spin three Technics - the SL-1500 MK II, the SP-15 and SP-25. The SP-15 was the most expensive, I picked it up for $300.00. I have the space so I use the 1500 for stereo, the 25 for mono with a dedicated mono cart and the 15 for 78s.
As for those who want to get into records and are completely new to the hobby, I suggest go new, at least until you've got more experience and knowledge. You can get a perfectly adequate turntable for around $500.00 and if you bump up to $1,000 you can get a turntable that will last you for years to come.
My systems have always been what audiophools would call mid-fi. I use NAD electronics and have older Infinity and Boston Acoustics speakers. I've had the opportunity to hear some really expensive setups and yes they sounded amazing, but not amazing enough to spend $30k or more to obtain.
I listen to digital in a number of formats and it really can sound great. However, like you, I spend more time, especially when listening intentionally listening to records. Thanks for your thoughts!
On the high seas there are some guys going to great trouble to rip vinyl (as a first playthrough) to flac files. We did listening tests, on high end headphones and a modern amp, and guess what? In the absence of clicks and pops typical of vinyl it sounded great, and with a touch of warmth you would normally hear with vinyl and thus [if you like that sound] better than digital. I have tried for some time to EQ purely digital cd rips to make them sound warmer, and it usually fails to reproduce the warmth of vinyl. That being said, if you play cds/flac through a vintage amp from the 70s, it is damn close.
I like the slow down to the old days, (70s) that makes me happy. Smoking cigars, drinking fine alcohols and slowing down is a balm to the drone of todays brain scattering society. If I have my phone out sometimes I don't even Finnish a whole song because it's so easy to skip to another. When you've got to get your ass up from the couch to change a song, well, you won't...lol
Most of these audiophile types couldn't even discern between an original master tape and a poorly recorded copy of a copy of a copy. They're more into their gear than the music itself.
The reason why vinyl is more interesting is : 1. It is vintage , and some young people want to stand out to the rest of their friends . 2. It is vintage , and some old people want to relive their youth. 3. It has art . 4. you need some effort for playing some music instead of pressing just one button . 5. at least you get out and in a shop and can meet people who can give advise . 6. it gives you memories connected to bying a record at one time , try that with a download . 7. It sounds indeed less revealing compared to digital , but is sounds more musical and is easier on the ears . 8 . It has SOUL.
For the record : I play digital & vinyl ......just look at it from a musical side and enjoy your music .
I have enjoyed listening to your discussion on the merits of analogue vinyl versus digital. Since this is such a subjective topic, it will be discussed endlessly for years to come. One thing which I think is, or would not make sense is this: True analogue has to be analogue from source to ear. If vinyls are today being manufactured with any sort of analogue to digital to analogue conversion as part of the process, then the end result is not true analogue and analogue vs. digital comparisons are meaningless.
You are absolutely correct.
Analog is always gonna have the warmth, much more than digital. Plus the 2 other big keys are the bass response and ability of vinyl or other analog source and the aspect of dB range. An analog audio recording can be pushed up to +3 dB without clipping, digital no matter what cannot be pushed passed unity or 0db, in fact really not even close to without cutout clipping or digital glitch. Another point with vinyl is the mastering process is always specifically done for vinyl, to the extent that even dynamics of a song effect where it can even go track sequence wise on the record. Side note, that is why trk order on many old vinyl releases could be drastically different from the cassette or cd.
On the equipment note, as you've said, you can get perfectly good sounding turntable and system for way less than those super expensive audiophile turntables etc. The best way I think to do that is buy vintage gear....just make sure there is a elec repair shop around that works on old gear, or leaan to fix things yourself.
Happy New Year from Germany ! :) HiFi is about the full experience and the ability to tweak things to how you as a listener want them to be. Digital has become so good that I would say that the difference between a 100 euro (or dollar) dac and a 1000 euro dac is very small and for the average person inaudible. The measurements are off the scale good even with cheap dacs nowadays. Digital is also plug and play But vinyl a.llows you to change cartidges or phone stages, tweak the cartridge alignement and vta.. and generally have a bit of fun with it. Also in opposition to steaming and to a lesser extent CD you have something really tangible to hold and look at. Streaming though has a hugh advantage that you have such a large choice. I regularly listen to something on streaming and then buy it on LP later. Ps I also listen to CDs and honestly I use an old Rotel rcd855 from 1998 (with a tda1571a) and I am 100% convinced it sounds (a lot) better than my brand new DAC. You should look for one of those and review it.... :)
Happy New Year to you as well
got a serviced Technics 1600mk2, lucked into a Technics M1a, love the sound
We’ve come close, several times, buying a reel to reel. Very interesting and great way of listening to music. However, we agree they’re much too finicky to use on a regular basis.🎧
For classical digital wins hands down imo - noise floor is a huge issue with lots of low level material. the primary source(instruments) are very 'analogue' and unprocessed, and lots of 20thC/contempory is released on CD only. sure- you can get close with a '1in100' vinyl disc and add that vinyl magic, though the cost is huge. one reveiwer recommended vinyl only for a 'budget' system. vinyl records cost a fortune and have to be stored - a pain. OK for your consistent 'high level' electrically generated or processed commercial(ish) music vinyl will be a more compelleing option to some, particularly with some dodgy digital transfers of (usually) pre2000s recordings.
I mostly use digital sources now merely to find my next LP, unless I can’t buy the LP version. Sometimes it’s only available as CD. For instance I just bought Cowboy Junkies Pale Sun record, and I’ve owned the CD for years. I know it’s a digital master to LP press, as they all mostly are now days. But there’s no mistaking which one sounds better, not the CD or the high res stream. Of course this is not always the case, and sometimes the Record version just sucks- I just go for the best version I can find within my budget. All in all, records are just way more fun. Just bought B Springsteen’s new record “ Only the strong..” It’s just beautiful, and sounds amazing. The art and presentation is outstanding.
I didn’t spend all that much on my stereo gear, around $4-500 a component, turntable, receiver, speakers. I’m using a Pioneer DVD player for CDs that only cost me $45 w/remote included.
I’ve been listening to and collecting records since 1970, and am very happy with the sounds I’m getting from them.
Nothing against streaming but I won’t be doing it.
When I’m in the mood for listening I take the time for it, and have a room to listen to it in.
I stream audio for the pricepoint and convenience. I love my rig, but I'm old enough to remember when vinyl was king and nostalgically love the sound that I remember. There is room for any kind of different playback as long as it makes you happy. The most important thing to remember about this is that it's a hobby to pass time and somewhat passionatly bring great joy to the listener. Let everyone else argue. I'm in stereo heaven and I love it.
I love my collection of vinyl and I have about 1000+ records. I also collect DTS CD's for the few things that sound better as digital such as the 1812 overture with the canons which are not possible on vinyl.
10:37 Were you talking about Love Over Gold here?
I see listening to a vinyl record as being like building a fire in your fireplace and listening to a digital source as being like turning on a space heater. The space heater is cheaper to run, more efficient, less work, and overall safer than the fireplace... but those very things make it less engaging. If I just want the room warm then I'll flick on the heater but if I want to sit down and be in the moment I'll build a fire in the fireplace. There's room in this world for both.
Great analogy
All new Mcintosh MCD-12000 Tube CD Player with DAC is as close to Analog as it gets 😇Audio Heaven
I only have an audio techinca LP120 cause it was only 120 bucks and I love it. I like it because I sit down and pay attention to the music since I had to put the effort to pull it out the crate, think about if I wanted to spend time on it, agree that it's what I want to commit to, and after all that I listen to the whole thing beginning to end, no skipping, now hitting next track, just me and the undivided attention of the record. It gave me a reason not to just skip to chorus and then play next song once i'm bored. I always do that with digital players, I can't resist just going ok get to the part I like now on to the next one. Also, I have struggled to find old jungle, happy hardcore, and other older techno/gabber type music for download. Not in anyway I can purchase authentically without ripping a youtube video. So I think it depends on availability of the music, preference, and opinion of physical media.
For me, I have purchased tons of music on my PC that I have to repurchase due to switching computers and losing data or having to move hard drives. I pay for a lot of music that I lose. Guess what music I bought that I'll never lose in anything less than a housefire? My records, whether they suck or not. I also really love CDs since that was the firmat of my time. I used to carry CD players and become annoyed that they would skip.
You’re so detailed and deep I can’t keep up
happy to hear your getting over covid. I totally agree with you. Vinyl has a swarmer tone than digital. I use an English, twin motor , belyt drive Logic Gemini/Datum S arm with a Shure V15-vmrx with a Jico SAS stylus which runs through a Grundig superhifi active speaker system from the 90's which all sounds warm. tonal and great. 200k tt, no thanks. Stay well. take care, enjoy the music.
The word "audiophile" is bandied about in the world of audio so much, that someone telling me they consider themselves to be an audiophile tells me virtually nothing about them. Different people tend to like or dislike different aspects of music formats for reasons they know and can explain or for reasons unknown. That's as much as I can tell about people in general and their interest and involvement with things audio. Personally, I enjoy using different music formats at different times for various reasons and I am none the worse for those experiences.
I hate the word "audiophile "
Tape isn't even a necessary part of the analog recording process. Before the advent of magnetic tape recording, analog records were all mastered directly to the cutting lathe. In those days, masters were cut onto beeswax instead of acetate, and records pressed into shellac instead of vinyl, but the process hasn't changed that much since Emile Berliner invented it over 100 years ago. The advantage with tape is it supports discreet, multiple parallel tracks, and can be erased and reused many times. Allowing the production and premixing to be done before the final cut is made.
Great information, thanks!
40 years of going to garage sales (south of Tampa Bay, FL) and building an LP collection of 4,000 LPs for pennies on the dollar. Think I'll keep my LPs (yes, I buy CDs) and play them back on my Linn Sondek LP12 (used $800 plus some upgrades through the years) and a Thorens (backup). Actually, the few LP's that I have bought lately that are reissues have been disappointments largely from a "pressing" standpoint (small warps, etc.) 99% of my original pressings don't have these issues. I have had people walk out of the room where I have been playing an original Rolling Stones album on Decca and accuse me of performing some kind of deception (that I truly have a CD player hidden somewhere in the room and the sound they are hearing is not actually the LP itself).
FWIW I have Al Stewart's "Year of the Cat in CD and Vinyl . They both sound good for the most part
However, with the CD when the distorted guitar comes in during the instrumental break, it sounds annoying. However, with the vinyl it sounds very musical
So, they both have good and bad points. Why some like vinyl has been widely discussed.
Having said that, . what is not widely discussed is that with vinyl is you must have a very good TT , cartridge.. and Pono pre amp. Otherwise it can not sound great.
If someone cannot appreciate the difference between analog and digital, they're a lost cause unworthy of debate.
How good is that streamer when your internet goes down?
Not very
Actually, when I listen to a track in 48/192 it just grates on me, like nails across a chalkboard. The best source of digital I can handle is the old tried and true CD. Streaming is OK so long as the source is no finer than CD quality, according to MY ears. But I REALLY enjoy a nice vinyl album, some pressings better than others. I would love to get to listen to a nice "audiophile" grade pressing, but I'm not shelling out $125 for one record. when I can bring home maybe five good records from Walmart for that amount. Thats MHO, and I'm sticking with it!
There are some complaints showing up with streaming services. Any large streaming service is tasked with the storage of millions of albums. The only way they can do that is to compress the data. If you're going for purity of sound, that's a bad way to start. Then they have to switch back to lossless at some point for audiophiles. And what I'm hearing is that the end result is not that spectacular compared to CD/SACD and vinyl.
Digital mastering is tricky in that the present trend is towards LOUD and not the real nuances of music dynamics. So you have to have engineers that understand this for audiophiles and not just master LOUD music for the masses and their earbuds.
I have a Tascam CD recorder that makes perfect copies of any vinyl I have. I can tape vinyl at the same time I use the Tascam. I could even tape off the Tascam CD if I wanted to without the perception of successive generation loss, like in tape. Plus, the Tascam is a perfect CD player for already recorded bought CD's.
It all depends how much you open your audio window in terms of resolution or transparency to your source my experience with some non remastered CD`s is that they are very close if not better than the original vinyl in other words it takes a very good record player to beat CD played on a CD transport with a good DAC and not compared to streaming! Reissued LP`s that went trough a digital step were even in the eighties clearly inferior and not worth buying anymore .
There is something, what that something is we apply terms like warmth and realistic, I just think more musical, if you want to get into vinyl, start with a 2n hand deck a couple of decades old that was good back then, prices now are crazy and you get poor value.
Part of beeing an audiophile, for me, is about comparing sound, a 1976 analog recording of Van Der Graaf Generator wont sound the same as a 2005 digital remaster. Now, I’m not making the case that eather of these two recordings sounds better than the other, I’m just saying that as an audiophile it’s within my interesst to find the one that i enjoy the most.
A 2005 digital remaster of a 1976 analog recording could sound essentially the same, if that's the goal and philosophy of the record company and the mastering engineer.
@@purpleghost4083 Never heard of a case like that, but it might depend on what music you listen to.
Happy New Year
Same to you
Surprisingly to me, the records I have sound better than CDs and easily better than streaming. CDs and especially streaming seem to have a flat sheen to the sound, whereas the records sound vibrant, and the sound has a lot of depth to it. If I had to sum it up I would say I am not unhappy with CD, but I want to turn the volume on streaming down as the sound becomes annoying but I am very happy to turn the volume of records up.
A flat sheen on CDs? A lot of depth on records? Dynamic range is much greater on CDs. The signal to noise ratio is much higher and compression much less on CDs. Records just cannot compare.
@@davidjgomm no one is arguing that. You obviously haven't experienced a good vinyl setup. As with all things, if you're so focussed on "measurements" and statistics, you're going to miss the actual sound and enjoyment. Imperfection is more enjoyable, putting effort into something generates greater satisfaction.
@davidjgomm No, the potential of CD is greater but unfortunately, , because of this greater potentia,l there is a much greater potential to increase the loudness of CD while compressing the dynamics to make everything sound immediately louder and more impressive to the average consumer. This is impossible with vinyl due to its limitations. Perversely, this leads to vinyl being better mastered on many occasions and sounding better than CD. Most recordings don't even come close to using the dynamic range of vinyl, by the way, let alone CD.
@@SpyderTracks What is a "good" vinyl set up and how much would it cost? This is an honest question as I do have a vinyl system but I prefer the lack of all kinds of noise from CDs. What equipment would you suggest?Imperfection is more enjoyable? How much effort do I have to put in to get satisfaction from scratches, clicks, pops and the rest.? And I'm not focused on measurements, I just enjoy the deep black silences that are possible with CDs. I actually like music not hifi for its own sake.
@@1jhnpennington Can you suggest an LP that sounds better than the CD equivalent? I promise I will buy it and the CD to compare them! I mostly listen to music from the 70s through to the 90s. Yes, I'm a boomer (tail end).😁
It’s all down to care of discs and maintenance of playback equipment. Vinyl can sound great but it takes time and effort to get results. It’s a different experience to digital.
I have tapes, cd discs, vinyl & hundreds of album flac files. Viny are my luxury with sleeves & info, cd discs like flac but with a small sleeve with info, flac my lazy & convenience, tapes are just my fun. ( I even had minidisc for a whiles) my favourite is the classier vinyl its an indulgence.
I do not subscribe to the view that vinyl is superior to digital and visa versa. Either technologies can sound great. There have been many times I have had a record on and someone would ask me what CD am I playing? So yeah in my experience you can get records to sound just as clear and dynamic as a digital source. The downside is their maintenance and storage. Records do require a lot more effort to take care of as well as take up a lot of space. So if your living quarters are small I think an receiver with a built in DAC for streaming makes sense. However, if you want to physically own your media I feel nothing beets a good old 2-Channell receiver/integrated that has built in phono stage paired with an entry level turntable. There are a lot of used records in great condition that can be obtained for very little money.
I think that vinyl resurrection is not just a hippy trend. There's something about the process that no digital means can offer. You connect to the music, even small scratches on the disk where you remember in which song they are and most of all the fact that you actually "touch" the music in one sense, you see the record spinning and the needle sit on top of it, the visuals of it. I think that CDs will fade away and there will only be streaming and vinyl in the future. I have the same album on CD and vinyl , I'll never play it on CD it's stream or vinyl. The sound of vinyl is great, it may not be the best but the experience compensates for it. On the other hand , now that we have lossless streaming services it's not about building a huge vinyl collection anymore, no point in this nowadays, there are space and weight issues so only the most loved albums that you can play all the songs should make it to vinyl collections.
Most albums have 1 or 2 dud tracks. with digital media, it is much easier to delete or skip the filler. Vinyl means having to get up and adjust the tonearm.
@@ryzenseven793 Yes that's what I meant to say. Vinyl is expensive, heavy, takes space, so only your real favourites should make it. You shouldn't fall for the "collect everything" trap. There's streaming now for this..
We need to reframe how we talk about this. There is no digital music, its music that's stored digitally. All music is analog. Music stored digitally is more accurate to its source than any other medium. Even the compact disc, if you copy a flat transfer of a master tape to 44.1 CD standard its an exact copy of that source. DSD and higher bitrates do not actually preserve the signal any better. Sure it captures higher frequencies that no one can hear and not many speakers can reproduce but everything under 20khz is captured and reproduced perfectly. There are so many variables as to why we like what we like. But when I compare a CD and LP from the same era they sound exactly the same but for some reason I am more satisfied listening to the LP. I think its the size, seeing it spin and other factors. But listening to them back to back there is no real difference except the flaws on LP.
We argue about digital vs LP, but there are people who say cassettes are the best sounding so there is no real answer for this. A preference is not a fact. And the fact is that any measurable aspect of sound supports digital as superior.
I do think its hilarious that analog purist were unable to tell the difference between digital files that Mo-Fi used. Because they never could. Anyone who thinks they can hear the difference would fail taking a blind test of different quality MP3 files vs DSD and so on. Now after saying that Mo-Fi should be honest about their sources, however then "audiophiles" wouldn't spend all that money on their products regardless of quality. Listen with your ears and not your eyes.
'd sort of agree in some aspects, I tend to think the 180 Gram thing is just prie-gauging, forcing 1 LP to two and also forcing only 2 or 3 songs per side can take away from it and I absolutely can't stand the splatter/colored vinyl trend, like I saw a killer VoiVod box set and it looked phenomenal but then I saw the splatter vinyl and passed.
Always go for black vinyl if it is available.
there is a difference between AP 33 and 45 releases, 45 alway sounds better, question is how much better, that would depend on title, it is up to you if you want to spend more or just stay with 33
You need both a DAC and a turntable. I purchased a stereo with a DAC. I played the audiophile tracks that sounded great on my stereo. Then I played the Stones. There was no magic, no soul, just the sound. Turns out not all digital recordings are the same. They brick wall a ton of 90s era cds to make them sound louder. But if you listen to the same recording on vinyl from 1976 the sound is amazing. My rule 1.) old music vinyl. 2) new music, digital. 3) Old music re-release on vinyl is probably from a digital source so try to get it on used vinyl.
Streaming is innately inferior to other media because the source of signal is invariably too compressed, inconsistent and subject to variables controlled by the 'caster'.
There are also signal strength changes which are often compensated for by electronics to act as a band aid for temporary or chronic issues. A known, good physical source of the stored music is essential whether analogue or digital.