Jonathan Haidt w/ Prof. Adam Grant: Authors@Wharton - The Coddling of the American Mind
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Wharton professor Adam Grant speaks with American social psychologist Jonathan Haidt as part of the the Authors@Wharton speaker series. Topics include social media, Gen Z, and political polarization. (Recorded March 16, 2021)
The Authors@Wharton Speaker Series seeks to enrich intellectual engagement and encourage dialogue between students, faculty, staff, and alumni outside of the classroom. Launched in 2012 by Professor Adam Grant, our events are open to all members of the Penn community at no cost. Learn more: whr.tn/3mA9VvW
#WhartonAuthors #JonathanHaidt #socialpsychology
-----
Founded in 1881 as the world’s first collegiate business school, the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania is shaping the future of business by incubating ideas, driving insights, and creating leaders who change the world.
With a faculty of more than 235 renowned professors, Wharton has 5,000 undergraduate, MBA, executive MBA, and doctoral students. Each year 18,000 professionals from around the world advance their careers through Wharton Executive Education’s individual, company-customized, and online programs. More than 99,000 Wharton alumni form a powerful global network of leaders who transform business every day.
Learn more about Wharton: www.wharton.upenn.edu/
Subscribe to the Wharton CZcams channel: czcams.com/users/thewhart...
Why doesn't this interview have 10 million views? It takes me back to my two most influential professors (of literature) in college, both of whom encouraged us to argue with them and with each other. If not for them, I might never have learned to think.
Speaking of Benjamin Franklin, one of my all-time favorite quotes is from him: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
True that.
Jon Haidt is a national treasure. Brilliant, caring man.
This discussion was extraordinary.
Contra Jonathan Haight August 9, 2021
From Wharton School interview by Adam Grant PhD.
Things start to go downhill around the 20 minute mark.
@20 “The system was stable until Trump.” How stable is a system that one playboy billionaire can up-end the entire edifice, according to the left. The whole left seemed to be crushed that Hillary didn’t win. Hillary was unlikeable so why were they so upset? On the right, we think that, from Obama on down, there was an immediate recognition that all those naughty things they were doing could soon be exposed to daylight. That couldn’t happen and they set about the cover-up. So far, they’ve been successful, much to the right’s chagrin.
@22 “Literally, a majority of Republicans believe the [2020] election was stolen. And 10 years ago, that couldn’t have happened.”
I could spend the next ten pages explaining why he’s right. Ten years ago we still had faith in our government institutions. But we saw the IRS weaponized against conservative groups and no price paid by the malfeasants; and we saw the media lie constantly about Trump, (Trump asked Russia for Hillary’s emails; Trump’s controlled by Putin, Trump thinks there are good white supremacists.)
But the very worse was when we realized that the DoJ and the FBI and the CIA and the NSA and the Defense Dept. and the State Dept. all conspired to illicitly remove a duly elected President by subterfuge, procrastination and old world lying.
Then the Democrats (and some Republicans) decided that Covid meant we could re-write the voting rules and open voting to everyone without assured identification.
You’d have to be an idiot to not be suspicious, and we know how desperate the Democrats are to have power. We suspect the Dem. Party is a mafia organization masquerading as a political party. It operates on extortion, coercion, protection and payoffs. And you think the Republicans are the sick party. Go figure.
@24:30 “Trump’s not a conservative, he just hates liberals.” Conservatives didn’t vote for Trump because he hated liberals. We suspected he was a liberal too, but he kept saying the right things about the right issues and we already knew Hillary Clinton better than we wanted to.
At this point it becomes apparent that the author of ‘The Righteous Mind’ has succumbed to Trump Derangement Syndrome. His hate, despite his denial, shows through clearly.
@ 36:15 “It’s kinda hard to make good arguments against gay marriage”
I’ll try.
They don’t produce our future and may, therefore, care about different things than heterosexual families.
They earned their rights through the Supreme Court. There was never a popular state vote favoring gay marriage. In this sense, they won a decision just as in Roe v. Wade. Doesn’t mean their victory is not valid. Our system says it is and that is that.
The Supreme Court ruling says that any two people can marry, but it doesn’t say why three people can’t marry? The Court says ‘one plus one plus love is equal to man plus woman plus love. But one plus one equals two, while man plus woman equals…what? Based on this Supreme ruling, nothing, in a philosophical sense, keeps us from having three people who love each other getting married. Or more.
The ‘or more’ part should really worry women given the history of harems and consorts and many-wives systems perpetrated by men over thousands of years. The left says, “Let’s go backwards!”
@49:30 Dr. Haight tells a story about a young man accepted to a Liberal Arts College before students found some “white power” messages in posts that he’d made three years before (so, 15 years old!). The students want him out but the brave and wise president of the university tells them he’s just the kind of guy that they need to experience. “It was rough on him the first year,” but he turned out to be a pretty good guy, said Dr. Haight.
Don’t you mean, “They were rough on him?” Isn’t that the definition of a re-education camp where you go to get your mind worked over? Dr. Haight didn’t get it, but he demonstrated the entire problem with left-leaning elites. Not only do they believe that they are correct, but they insist on conformity to their opinion even if it entails a ‘rough’ year.
@54:00 Dr. Haight tells about a $10k bet he lost to a dinner host who said Trump would win. So, before the 2016 election, Haight was already underestimating Trump. It must be easy to hate a guy who blows a hole in your world view.
@55:05 “I thought Trump wasn’t conservative he was authoritarian or appealed to authoritarians.” This ‘authoritarianism’ could be defined any way you want.
@57 min In 2020, “Trump ran on culture wars; he really didn’t have any policies.” Well he had an immigration/border policy. He had a middle east policy - the Abraham Agreements. He had a North Korea policy- try to engage. He had a China policy-they’re bad actors. He had a Covid policy-get these vaccines created and produced and I want it done yesterday. He had a Defense policy-increase funding for ships and planes and space. He had an energy policy-we produce the energy. Don’t these count?
@57:40 Dr. Haight says he didn’t realize that many people didn’t like Hillary Clinton. I wonder how that happened?
I read, and liked ‘The Righteous Mind.’ But I doubt Dr. Haight would defend it today since the conservative party is so sick. In his book, conservatives scored well on all six parameters chosen by him. Liberals scored very high on three, but very low on another three. He maintained, correctly I think, that a thriving society requires all six of these characteristics.
Well, the left is in charge and our country is going the wrong way. As Democrat cities fight rampant crime and murder it would appear that the management system the Democrats have used for the last 50 years in our cities are coming to a village near you.
The left is in charge of Hollywood and movies are terrible.
The left is in charge of Education and we are number 38 behind every developed country in the world, and falling fast. Average graduates read at an eight grade level and math is even worse. Don’t even mention writing, it’s being eliminated as a measurable accomplishment. All our students can do is talk. The quality is not too good, but there is plenty of it.
The left is in charge of professional sports that millions of people loved but left. Olympics viewership collapsed. NBA ratings are terrible.
The left is in charge of the tech giants who remove posts that are truthful to maintain their narrative line. Our society is producing the most psychotic young people of all time. But Hey! The money is rolling in.
The left is for open borders and we are being inundated by economic refugees.
The Education Department Graduate lefty is for Critical Race Theory. They’ve moved from ‘Orange Man Bad’ to ‘white man bad.’ Worse, they’re for ‘white children bad.’ And like Blazing Saddles they even hold the gun to their own heads crying about their innate racism.
I would suggest that the sick party is on the left and I don’t think it’s even close.
Dr. Haight voted for Joe Biden. Only hate can drive millions to vote for a decrepit old man with suspect senility. I’m sorry to see you fall into this progressive hell-hole. Trump hate is unreasonable. He wasn’t always my cup of tea, but his policies were common sense and he worked hard and never dodged a question. Right now, we don’t even know who is running our great ship of state.
"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul".
@@AJ-hc5zo QUOTE
Wherein No Sentence
Of Your Butt- Hurt Troll
Is Presented a Clear
Rebuttal , Proof nor Factual
Counter
UnQUOTE.
Please do not try and pitch social conservatism as being driven by reason or "common sense". At least libertarians have some consistency to their beliefs. Just a couple blatant inaccuracies in your comment:
(1) Gay marriage is actually very popular (about 2/3s of Americans). Also, all because gay folks can't have bio children in no logical sense negates their right to be married. If a man or woman cannot have kids, no decent person would ever suggest they are undeserving of being married. Lastly, polygamy is almost exclusively present in religious right-wing nations at this point. Trying to connect it to gay marriage is dishonest. In fact, there is a very strong relationship between women's and gay rights.
news.gallup.com/poll/311672/support-sex-marriage-matches-record-high.aspx
(2) None of the rhetoric you mentioned are policies. China are "bad faith actors" is not policy. Also, the real leader of the republicans Mitch McConnell is married to the daughter of a Chinese billionaire and republicans with neoliberals have done everything possible to add to China's power.
(3) Why don't you compare blue and red states in terms of education? The USA struggles in education due to overwhelmingly red states. Massachusetts has one of the best public school systems in the world. The "left" doesn't run all state governments and school districts. Guess what party controls the bottom 10 states in education?
www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
@@AJ-hc5zo good
Points.
@@AJ-hc5zo it was fine. I can imagine the points he's making and its not like you make it out. I do find tribal orange bad or good whatever too boring, but smug self righteous bullying is more annoying.
Its fine. Its coherent. The policy examples probably aren't the best, yet we can't say there was no policies or tons of wonderful policies. Its kind of a pedantic dull topic to axt like youre schooling anyone on.
So.... stop falling for the derangement he actually is somewhat rightly speaking about?plenty of people all sides see it. Its catty and beneath your potential
Where's that left love and compassion? Heh
Haidt stunned me by charactering Republicans as he did, but because I have enormous respect for him I’ve tried to understand his perspective, I just can’t get there. I’m not a Republican - too socially liberal. Not a Democrat - not liberal enough. Still, if forced to make a choice I’d be forced to support Republicans because from my perspective today’s Democrat party has, in the words of some lifelong Democrats (including Bret Weinstein & James Lindsay) gone insane. What am I missing?!
He still has some bias, too. No one is god and these are hella manipulative and divisive times.
For what it's worth I think a major contributor to political polarization was the end of the Cold War. With the Soviet threat gone we were free to discover how much we couldn't stand each other.
I don't agree with everything Jonathan says. Which means we are both independent thinkers. But his contribution to my understanding other humans is substantial.
Well said.
The Palladium. I too miss that bar!
awesome!!!
This was a great conversation. Such an important subject with very profound implications for the future.
My one objection to Haidt’s solution to the social media problem: the verification idea I believe has already been implemented on Twitter with the “blue check mark”, has it not? And that has not seemed to work out very well because, while they verify they are real people, they still seem to be very capable of saying and perpetuating every ugly and destructive ideology. What he says about “slower to judge, quicker to forgive” - that is true. Unfortunately that is something the individual needs to take on and not something you can impose.
This entire interview is insane & I’m exited/grateful for this opportunity to view my/other campuses through a different lens
I can agree with Haidt on so much and yet think he is so wrong. Thinking that Biden is doing anything to be inclusive and that UBI is the good idea in anyway is just something I don’t understand. He seems to have all the right views but takes a uturn on what the left is doing
Another for me would be when he says things like "republicans are not a party of issues anymore." I've heard him making this same claim elsewhere and to me it's literally exactly backwards. Republicans used to represent a kind of corporate military power with only vague and very surface level gestures towards social conservatism. Trump changed that overnight and ignited a kind of libertarian/nationalist vision and got the left on the back foot in the process. Honestly it's just strange how incapable normie libs are of understanding it.
I wish Haidt would talk about the coddling of the conservative mind.
I don't see why students get to argue or even speak up in a classroom, other than for clarification. No one pays tuition to hear from other students. If they do, those students should hang out together and skip the classes. There was a time when young people knew to keep their ears open and their snack hole shut. There's no longer a fear of adults giving out spankings or exerting their authority.
I'm receiving CBT for anxiety atm and I had also noticed that what I would have called SJWs were thinking similarly to the way I was when anxious. I considered that a failure on my part, that I was thinking like an ideologue. An anxiety ideologue.
I did that because I was making yet another cognitive distortion. I looked at the SJWs as 'thems'. It's not like that at all, they're suffering too.
Jonathan ... The conservatives never had an issue with kapernick freely speaking this mind. What the issue was/is - is how and where he did it. A football stadium (some financed by the taxpayers) does not belong to him; It's where he "works". He's a very wealthily man - who could have rented a venue to express his concerns. Knelling for the flag and wearing socks with pigs - depicted as cops - on football fields - that he doesn't own or rented - is inappropriate. What would happen if a conservative employee decided to speak out in the cafeteria at one of the twitter locations?
James Damore. Google. Fired.
@@phonkphonk Excellent point!
@@andyjoseph5994 John Gibson. CEO of Tripwire Interactive. Asked to step down (i.e. Fired).
Sage Steele. Host on ESPN. Suspended and removed as a host.
Its a can of worms out there. God bless those looking at these cultural/societal problems with an objective, competent, analytical mind.
..the PB&J arg. from the last lecture (Benson Centre)...# allergistdotheirjobs
In addition, to the introduction of mass adoption of Social Networks in 2011-2013, since 2012-2015, according to PEW, the mass adoption of Smart Phones had ballooned to ~92%-96% of American youth (16-24yrs), where the Social Network, and other new Apps were now available 24/7 to the developing teenage mind. (In my words, there was a seismic shift for children & young adult’s development with “no way out”!!
Further, I don’t see the drivers of what is ripping our society apart, so much a generational cause(gen Z-as John has noted), but a high-level onslaught of multiple Technologies(Smart Phones, Social Networks and the like, mass availability of high-speed broadband data flows leading to access and the developmental effects of dynamic visual information(Video, emerging Virtual Reality Techs)
There’s so much more. I haven’t been able to see a realistic way out for this Country(US) as the last few years the effects of technology on the young has been having a multiplier effect on society as they age into positions of authority.
I’m very thankful to have just stumbled on this site after watching my first Wharton School Podcast with Adam Grant and Malcolm Gladwell. I was looking through Adam’s adjacent CZcams threads and came upon this video!
John’s first few sentences were incredibly close to what I have been witnessing in NYC & NJ since 2010. In the phrase of global warming enthusiasts, this rapidity of change is just not sustainable! In any society in human history, I can not conceive of this Capitalist-driven technological juggernaut is ripping families, communities, advanced democratic nations, and population age cohorts apart.
On that pleasant note, Godspeed gentlemen, and please stay safe.
Lowell
Really?! Teachers are not 'substitute parents'. Teachers in universities and colleges are not dealing with children but with young adults. We do them a disservice by catering to their "feelings". This is where we are failing in higher education. Once the basic understanding of freedom of speech, thought and writing is ignored or suppressed we no longer have true education. Students must enter higher learning with the expectation of tolerance to weather those freedoms expressed by others as well as the courage to avail themselves of the same. Stop the madness!
The woke problem is complicated, of course, but a serious look at how parent involvement in elementary schools changed would reveal much about the problems we face today. Parents became much more involved in micromanaging and protecting their kids from every little thing. They stopped supporting teachers and started blaming them. Kids would go home and complain and the parent would rush to the principal and complain that the teacher was picking on her child. The principal who worked "at will" and was, therefore afraid of losing her job always supported the parent. Teachers could not longer set a standard of behavior in their classrooms and gave up, a real recipe for mediocre education and for producing kids who knew they could always complain and get their way. Not a good lesson for growing up into a mature adulthood.
The really, really sick party in my mind is the Democratic one.... but I got an open mind and I don't align with either party.
This.
This is right. The team loyalty comment was interesting also. When was the last time a Democrat diverged from Dem orthodoxy? Happens routinely in the other party.
@@levihamilton5760 would never said i was orthodox but I leaned that way for awhile and now I don't. Got way too toxic and stupid and childishly negative begging for nanny state totalitarianism. So independent i guess. Anyone that cares for basic human rights and personal sovereignty ill listen to.
So.
It kinda happens.
Sometimes.
Idk research on party switching over the last few decades though.
Cute how they dance around topics to ensure they do the very thing they are saying is destroying us
Have absolutely no wonder about others, because it's only about what the Zombie knows, wants, needs, talks about of own lives, and snowflake triggered by otherwise. That's why I know so much more about local zombies, than zombies know about me. They have no idea. All that know is what conveniently want to know, or think that know, and do deflect own vices and pretentiousness in the blame shift. Can be snobs, and I'm there thinking about what the hell do you really have about you, to be such snobs about. Egomaniac narcissism blindness, that's all, with very unsophisticated minds. On the other hand, I could get along with very well, with European snobs in my life in Spain. Somehow a warm up to each other happens, because synchronize in conversations with each other. Then there's the forced to be, but are really not. It's a defense mechanism. It's classist, but I don't have any problems with that kind either, especially in my life in Spain with nobles. Of course talked about our families, our ancestors, and that's why I was very accepted. The eventual loss of contacts with them all, was unfortunately because of my ex husband. I had a marriage and family, that I had to give priority to, over that type of social life. I even lost one of my noble families best friends that way, because who knows what was going on with our husbands and other women. I had no idea, but she accused me that I knew. It ended up being about a secretary at the bank. She was hit with three dreadful things at the same time. That, her father's sudden death, and a favorite uncle's death. It all changed her very much. I never blamed her attitude about it all at all, because it almost killed her. I was suffering about it all too, she just doesn't know that. I don't usually don't have the habit of crying in front of others, that's why. I'm a bit too stoic stiff upper lip, even when I shouldn't be, but my sadness and empathy is always within me. A confusion can occur of should I look strong for, sometimes stupidly, because I'm not a mind reader, or just let my emotions really show.
I really liked Haidt's stuff until this interview. Loved the interview but it exposes Haidt as a partisan indoctrinator.
His Ted Talk is still a gem.
Big oof.
Jonathan Haidt attempts to portray an objective critique of conservatives and liberals and their resulting cultural polarization, however, he displays an alarming lack of insight into the motivations of the culture of conservatism. Among other references he makes is his characterization of Mitt Romney as an example of a modern conservative political leader, nothing could be further from the truth. Not in 2012, not today. This is but one example, yet it displays a bias, a lack of insight that makes his thesis less than credible. Kind of like listening to someone from another planet describe what it's like to be a human.
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I stopped the video to write this comment at about 25 minutes in, I resume the video and the mask has come off! He is just another fashionably liberal university professor who hates Trump.
Nothing to see here.
It is not likely that Trump appealed to authoritarianism; many of the people voting for him were libertarians.
The point is moot anyway since left is far more blatantly doing authoritarianism now.
Haidt provides a language for describing the otherwise incoherent emotional polarities of the 21st century. It may be a bridge away from the precipice of hyper-identification and tribalism. Time 19:45, Kappernik is anti-thetical to conservatives because even a silent but visible protest of the theme song of the homeland (national anthem) - is subversive to our collective national identity. How many American songs are there where you are supposed to stand at attention, behave solemnly, and put your hand over your heart in respect? One. To me, a protest of that nature is problematic because it's divisive and emblematic of monolithic thinking. The United States had a problem during its founding therefore it is 100% bad. Or... police can sometimes physically overpower people and sometimes those people are black, therefore the U.S. is 100% bad. I'd rather Kappernick volunteer in communities or create an ethics training curriculum for law enforcement, something that unites us, that shows resilience rather than dismissing a symbol that's sacred to many people.
Too many women in colleges these days, adding to the neuroticism of the culture as they add to their body counts while pursuing degrees that they don't use to better their communities (no family making), but rather to personally enrich themselves.
Oh, wow...just wow...excuse me while I pick my jaw off the floor....