Watch this before buying a Mac for development!
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- čas přidán 6. 11. 2021
- Macbooks are great if you work for Apple! news.ycombinator.com/item?id=...
Otherwise you're far better off not being a share cropper on an open system like Archlinux
1. A package manager that works flawlessly and fast
2. Docker works
3. Ext4 works and I failed to mentioned you can mount other filesystem with ease on Linux - Věda a technologie
All i heard was "btw i use arch"
tumbleweed is better, arch is for specific applications wich consume a low hardware
I m hearing this Shtt everywhere
@@gabrielherz2781 tumbleweed is to sles what fedora is to rhel, basically a test bed for enterprise linux. the only good thing is that they use btfs snapshots so at least updates cannot break your entire system. other than that there are less packages and they are often one or two releases behind.
6/10 didn't end the video with "btw I use Arch"
Yay
Nice 👍
😂😂😂
Btw I also use arch💀
We've clearly had very different experiences with mac. I've been using one for work for the last 5 years, and both homebrew and Docker have worked fine for me.
Use arch then come back and say that shiet 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Probably a different experience using Intel/x86 machines vs ARM.
Same it’s more the fast, while arch has been like babysitting an infant.
@@PsycosisIncarnatedmhmhm yeaaah i would def as a typical user install fucking arch no ty
@@myxobe i literally use windows on my music production/gaming rig so i get your point lmao. it depends what you use a machine for. they all have their positives and negatives. i could write a lot of negatives about arch as well dont get me wrong ;)
I use to agree. About 3 years ago my job gave me a 16" MacBook Pro. I developed web apps with PHP, lots of Node, and a good amount of Java... all running on local Docker containers at one point or another. Over the course of that 3 years I went from a hard core Linux user to jumping ship and buying my first MacBook as a personal machine (a 15" Air upgraded with 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB drive). I haven't experienced any of the issues you cited on either my work or personal machines, especially in relation to Docker. I use brew sparingly, but haven't seen issues there when I do.
I'm a software engineer student
Can I get your advice for which device is better to get
I need something helpful in my study and future work,sustainable and to last useable to 5 years from now
Thanks
@@Layan-pe7mw So I’m a huge proponent of buying as much machine as you can afford at the time if it’s going to be your only one. This goes double for newer Mac hardware because they aren’t upgradable. That said, as a student I’d likely save the money and get a M2 MacBook Air with an upgraded drive for sure and upgraded RAM if you can swing it. Once you graduate and are making money, go for a MacBook Pro with all the goodies.
Damn… What company gave you a 16” MacBook Pro?? I got a XPS 13 Plus and I hate it for so many reasons lol
so true!
it completely depends on what kind of developer you are and what you do.
every OS has its own advantages and disadvantages.
@@Layan-pe7mwget a MacBook. If you need to use Linux you can set up dual boot with Asahi Linux or use a VM
You're correct! However, "development" means or has multiple directions. I bought a macbook air especially for "web development" and it's a PERFECT machine for that.
You also absolutely need a mac for IOS development.
@@ogreeni it's all gone anyway, AI will replace everybody
@@kavorka8855 doesnt matter. Still gonna run linux and study stuff as my hobby. I think everyone should just focus on that instead of the money.
@@kavorka8855 lol sure man
Which mac did you buy? I am thinking of buying MacBook pro (mid 2015) for coding. Is it good?
Except that with the Mac, I run macOS, Ubuntu, and Windoze! The M2 is so damn fast Ubuntu and Windoze feel like they running natively. "Open" is a state of mind.
"freedom" is a state of mind
Cope
prisoner cope "i am free in my mind"
Um no, it's most certainly not.
what would happen if you do that on Intel/ AMD and hackintosh it?
I have no problem with Docker on my Macbook. Linux is great, but no hardware is like Macbook for me. The touchpad experience is just unmatched.
Thats why i want to install linux on it
The touchpad is a lot what makes MacBook feel so premium vs the typical windows diving board design
I have no words for apple fan Bois. I have recently purchased a mac for iOS development. I can say that macos is the most garbage system for developers
@@gulabpatel7477you didn’t use it😂, is not a garbage, you don’t know What you have on your hands.
@@hakooplayplay3212there is something called dockers or parallel, you can use it instead of install Linux
I've got no issues developing or using docker on Mac. 🤷🏻♀️
As a software developer for over 4 decades who has worked on hundreds of projects with thousands of the great DoE, DoD, civilian, and SP devs on everything from client-server and full stack to AI deep learning and machine learning, there are many reasons why many of the top devs work on Mac OS: stability, performance and battery time. I guess you haven’t seen the M2/M3 speed comparisons with the top AMD, Intel and Apple Silicon. Often double or more the compile, training and related performance of the other platforms, at double-5 times the battery life.
Of course Ubuntu is a dominant server/HPC OS, and many use other OS’s, but an open architecture is not a big reason why devs and researchers commanding 6-7 figures do so. Also as an aside, if you are not leveraging and at least starting to do AI dev, you have less than 4 years to catch-up, or become one of the 10’s of thousands of devs already being laid-off.
BTW, few use Homebrew on the Mac in comparison to Conda, Pip, Poetry and related options. Also, the only platform thathas any major issues anymore with Docker is Windows (mores specifically Windows-AMD), as the Mac versions of Dk, DkC and DN are solid.
Hey i am about to start my undergrad computer science engineering, so shall i buy macbook air m1? I know its old model but i have budget constraints. And would i be able to learn AI, ML , on it?
@@AdityaSharma-zh7fq I dont recommend it, I used an M1 Mac through my CS degree and I can tell you that the AI development classes, Graphics Programming classes, and the C++ classes were a nightmare to get work done with on M1. Open GL is deprecated on Mac, C++ code can run fine but my professors had issues compiling my code due to some differences between ARM and x86, and overall getting a working dev environment for school running on Mac requires so tinkering.
remember my senior on Arch Struggling to connect Wifi and route his Minikube because their was some driver conflict on his Asus...
Remember with ptsd spend hours on just restoring my machine because snap broke my alias.
Remember that guy saying " it works for me... You shall install ( the same distribution as me)"
Switched Mac after 5 year on closed Windows dev and 4 year on Linux as DevOps Engineer (arch, fedora, PopOs (ubuntu) centos). Now I'm freelance on Dev / Cloud architecture... The Macbook is a central Hub for dev, destress and self entreprise management. It's my time not my boss money that I waste on driver compatibilty now ... Plus my job is to solve other pb not mine :D
But Yay ...in fine you're right and my example are bad habits from some peoples.
Worth listening to if you are not an IoS/Android developer. If you are one, you will need mac, developing ios apps on windows/linux systems is such a pain I wouldn't like to undergo again! Own both.
As a javascript developer, macbook is just the sweetest spot for me. I used Linux for around 8 - 10 years, I couldn't find myself going back to Windows because of the commands I was writing out of my muscle memory in bash or zsh, and if I had to use photoshop (which is a realistic requirement for pretty much everyone) I knew I was not getting it on Linux, and shifting to Windows just for that was not worth it.
So for me, macbook air is the best value for money.
You are awesome, good short video!
This video is basically "I use Arch btw" 🤦🏻♂️
I use both arch and mac
I've been using both mac os and linux. Never experienced something like you told ever :D
I use Linux Mint on an early 2011 MacBook Pro. It's fantastic.
Just want to throw in a plug for Asahi Linux here as FYI it is now in a state on my M1 Air where I personally consider it daily drivable running Arch Linux ARM, especially if you use the edge kernel
Based, same here :D
Docker has been fine for a long time on apple silicon. Not sure which part is broken?
That is not a MBP.
Thank you saved me a lot of money
Mr. Arch!! Can you build xcode projects?
and let me remind you that oh, it cannot!!
You don't have a Mac, the Mac has you.
And you're absolutely okay with that. 😂 Good luck, crowd
ok but I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
I totally agree! but I'm always curious how other developers find their best linux laptop.
...thank you!
Thank you. I was looking forward to buying one but don't wanna ditch fedora. I searched for a dual booting process and found this.
Docker is definitely not broken on Apple lol
Well it’s actually not for backend stuff, but for UI or Web it’s wonderful
oh yeah lemme learn yet another crazy ass os instead of sticking with a simple os
I use m1 macbook air and dell gaming laptop with arch daily for webdev, some C, python and I can't say i've never ever had a terrible docker or homebrew experience. And generally macos desktop is more stable and fluent. I don't say linux is bad, in many ways it's superior but I totally disagree with takes from this video.
I don’t think every developer wants to update their system weekly and risk having issues etc Lol. MacOS is perfect for productivity but not for extreme customisation, and that’s been known for centuries 🙈
weekly? it's a full time job💀
I get your point but Docker seems to be running fine on M1. Compared to windows, it's so much easier to get it to work.
Noted! So i caved, because with asahi linux, the new mac silicon machines are as free as another windows machine with a dual boot. Yes, its not perfect (have to dual boot with macos) but from a die hard linux (arch fan boy) Im ampped about where the asahi project is now and continuing to head. (Also if Linus T. Is on a macbook with the asahi kernel, its just another selling point)
Home brew is so nice
not good for visual studio
Docker is pretty much not broken on my beautiful Mac dev machine :-D
npm install, am I right?
@@kaihendry For everything, running AI models in docker, anything works perfectly.
i am using both arch manjaro and mac, for arch after any update of systems a loooooot of issues bugs in arch so i was not happy with that i cannot every time i update arch should fixe again and again
Arch is Linux 😢 these arch guys are in their own little world. (Time to go set up an Arch system from scratch).
Loved the feedback :P :p
YT has to put the dislike count back again
the only apple hardware that i ever own was an ipod. I sue to dream to have apple hardware because i loved mac os back then, build hackintosh because apple computer is just to expensive back then for me.
but along my journey i found that linux is just better for development works, and it has so many options, KDE, GNOME, and now i'm more leaning to more setup using window manager.
and almost forgot, btw i use arch :)
What kind of Mac do you have?
Did you know i use arch tho????
iOS Developers 🗿🗿🗿🗿
I LOVE ARCH ! Its the best !
What the hell are you taking about bro?
I'm on your team. but the Apple hardware is fantastic. Also nowadays you can run Asahi Linux on apple silicon chip.
I am a budding developer. i have used windows, linux and mac all 3 at some point in life.
When he says - you need an 'open machine' for development, he is goddamn right. Daily simple developers do not or might not really need to tweak everything to that minute perfection, but as we go higher and higher, even the python interpreter files need to tweaked, the installation needs to reconfigured some times.
And THAT IS DAMN SIMPLE ON LINUX,
But we all have our preferences so yeh, cool with whatever you all use. Distros are for us, we are not for distros ,
i am sorry, but you don't NEED linux for development.
it completely depends on what kind of developer you are and on what you do.
every OS has its own advantages and disadvantages.
Parallel desktop and i have your Arch :)
What is the hardware
Couldn't agree more, but how do I do Xcode/Swift?
I think you should ask a real developer :)
Let me kindly remind you that you can run all these simultaneously via virtual machine. Doesn’t that make apple mac the ultimate all-in-one machine?
“Mac” absolutely destroys in performance any PC where Linux would run smoothly and bug free.
I’ve tried all flavours of Linux, Ubuntu, Fedora, Linux Mint, Arch, Manjaro etc you name it. and there’s always something wrong when I run some of the Applications or their “alternatives” that I use, and the UI on some Applications are hideous and felt like they were from early 90s. It sucked, Linux is just isn’t for me.
It's your taste maybe expensive for you, gold for others.
can you show us how to build an ios app on arch too ?
You can't
:)@@kaihendry
I use a 2019 MacBook on windows 11
I'm learning this the hard way. I wanted to download visual studio for my Mac and found out ITS NOT SUPPORTED! I was using the 2019 version and it randomly updated the SDK and when I tried to update Visual Studio the Microsoft website only has the EXE. version. I was so mad because I love my iMac and the fact they discontinued visual studio for it is just.. UGHH
VS for Mac is deprecated for sure, but it was always janky. VS Code now has a good dotnet dev experience, and Rider is ace if you want a full IDE with bells & whistles.
There's no reason you can't maange SDK versions manually now, as you would e.g. nodejs.
do you recommend me buy macbook pro 2011 for development i use linux distro?
I don’t know what arch is so I guess I’m good
btw i use linux mint & arch
Hi, I’m going to study programming and cyper security engineering what are the best deal for a broke absolute beginner ?
Damn bad take and honestly misleading if I was not already an engineer
I use linux mint
so basically, you "use arch btw",i use arch (btw) too
I'm building a new app with an integrated codec, is MacBook pro not going to work?
Not sure what "integrated codec" means in relation to your hardware choice
Mines been good
I use Arch BTW
can you develop an ios app on arch?
Home NAS for VM
thats my current issue
btw i use arch
These opinions are of course completely valid and appreciated, but I’ll continue to be responsibly critical. Rooting against a highly successful, well thought, and intentionally composed UX typically screams any combination of contrarianism, a lack of true understanding of some pertinent element or, in this case, genuine and thoughtful bias. Remember - bias doesn’t always mean evil.
As somebody who has built web content for well over a decade and was a typical “Apple hater” for the first half of it, I’ll never go back. The experience as a whole is unparalleled. And I’m obsessive to a self-destructive degree. With that said - I’m not a particularly fancy back-end dude, so take that into account ¯\_(シ)_/¯
what hardware would you recommend to start using archlinux for development? I currently own a macbook pro m1 and a windows 10 pc with a 3080ti. I thought about just switching over to arch from windows but ive heard nvidia and linux dont go well together. I could sell it and get an AMD gpu but the gpu market sucks at the moment and Im still exploring what nvidia has to offer. Im thinking a thinkpad would be a cool start, not sure if it supports multiple monitors though since I like using 3 monitors. What hardware/thinkpad would you suggest ?
Maybe look to czcams.com/video/M1EL8yYe_0s/video.html for inspiration. Onboard GPU is fine.
What? I use a Mac for programming and nothing comes even close.
I believe Mac m1[x..] is an alternative between usual home tasks, music/photography software and basic development tasks.
Macbook Air m1 is the cheapest laptop with good display, long battery life and acceptable performance. I use it like a terminal for connection to Thinkpad with Arch to use docker and other developer tools.
Agreed, I do really like the M1 air. Keyboard experience alone astonishes me.
why dont you fire up a vm instead of having a separate machine? performance on a vm is better that latest amd laptop processors
@@Tatar_Piano VM looks like a solution. But why if have special Thinkpad for work) Also M1 has limitation of VM usage due to ARM arch.
Let me remind you, I have 3 MacBooks and each of them run Manjaro 🤣😂
What’s your microphone setup in this short ?
Just the phone
Still better than windows 👀
“The homebrew experience” and you show a basic VIM-style text editor with 1980s style fugly font rendering. How about using your coding skills to update the linux shell to support anti-aliased font rendering?
Yes, all the millions of developers using at are all stupid.
Not my experience what so ever...
Your “reminding” me of all kinds of things I’ve never heard of thanks…
so what specifically can't be done on a mac?, and which developement tools can't you run on a mac? (docker runs fine for me on an Intel based mac, cannot vouch for the M series of chips)
Macs cant handle various types of filesystems. If you are working with lots of servers and virtual machines, mac is not an option.
I'm not even sure what the point of this video is. I don't need something like AUR in MacOS. All of my needs are met with Homebrew. I'm a long time server Arch user, but I don't understand the vibe of this one.
What about windows? I am totally lost in my investigation about the next laptop and I am a professional web developer. Currently I am torn apart between T14 Gen 4 and Air 10C 15 inch.
You use the very similar setup as I do. I guess i got memed into believing I was unique.
what is the model of that monitor behind you? It's interesting...
Dell USBC
Ubuntu Asahi runs flawlessly on M2, for me it's the best of both worlds :) I'm missing just the integrated mic.
Does an external mic work? Tbh I use a Hollyland Lark M2 on my MBP most of the time
@@kaihendry external (jack) does, also usb and bt of course
Can anyone pls answer that whether or not can we use sql, poweBI, tableau on M1 air?
Remind me
I'm a beginner, what should buy now Mac ?
You have to learn Linux, later whatever you want!!!!
A parallel universe
I mean yeah unless your developing on Xcode then its definitely the best choice you can make and who dose not wanna develop for apple platform
You forgot that to compile ios mac mobile app you need a mac, and a recent one... there is no other options.
For me, it made the choice clear. I need a machine i can do everything on
Docker is a so good
may be ashahi linux😅😊