8GB M3 Mac vs 16GB Windows PC - Did Apple LIE to You?!
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Apple said an 8GB Mac is equivalent to a 16GB Windows PC. Can that be true? We Test it!
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Timestamps ⬇️
8GB M3 Mac vs 16GB Windows Laptop - 00:00
Baseline Performance - 00:44
Real-World Performance - 02:08
Multi-tasking - 04:48
Responsiveness - 06:06
is 8GB the same as 16GB? - 06:44
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It's wild that this needs to be explained to people.
The power of marketing...
I was torn apart in the Mac reddit for saying it was obviously true.
whats wild is that he actually compared a win laptop in single channel (1 stick of ram) vs the 8gb mac (unified memory bs) - idk why ppl still buying in single channel laptops or brands sell it in that state to safe 1 buck
@@jameshernandez4112 So to an extent macOS on Apple Silicon is written to be more efficient than macOS on Intel or Windows but web pages are going to use similar amounts of memory as are browser extensions and it's going to require similar amounts of memory to work on the same files. If Apple were to argue that 14 or 15 GB can accomplish the same as 16 GB I'd believe them, but it's common sense that 8 GB was never going to be as good as 16 GB, otherwise they wouldn't be offering 256 GB as an option on the desktop Macs.
@@Vss077 lol that slot is empty that laptop has already 16GB soldered into the mob
Apple sheep being apple sheep. Just look how the Americans care about a color of an SMS.
I had 16GB Ram in my MacBook Pro 10 years ago… 8GB in 2023 is horrendous.
You didn’t have an Apple silicon Mac. I have an 8GB Apple silicon Mac and it’s totally fine
Edit: everyone replying that it’s not enough for them, cool. You have a more ram hungry workflow than I do. That’s why they sell higher ram configs.
Believe it or not guys, not everyone does the exact work you do, and not everyone needs the same specs.
To say that 8GB isn’t good for anything is dumb, and then when I say it’s fine for me all you have to say is “it’s not fine for me”.
Great. Buy higher specs then.
In 2033, they’ll still only offer 8Gb. Its Apple.
@@pt192 it’s 2023 and they don’t only offer 8GB.
@@Kamdenmcleanmusic123 You missed the point. OP's saying Apple will only offer 8GB at base not as the only option.
@@Kamdenmcleanmusic123 I mean 8GB of RAM is completely fine for plebs.
That 8GB Mac only exists to upsell another 8GB for $200, a Crucial 8GB 5600 DDR5 SODIMM is $25, 1/8th the price.
What Apple is doing is misleading advertisement
Facts
Sadly, they screw their buyers every chance they get - it makes buying in to their business model a hard sell
i mean standard 5600 sodimms are not quite the same as SoC memory. 5600 MT/s is 69 GB/s in bandwidth, apple's SoC has 150 GB/s of bandwidth. That obviously doesnt justify the price, but not quite comparable.
@@nniklask Apple uses standard LPDDR5 RAM sourced from Micron Technologies and it's DIRT cheap. It's the same RAM that's used in smartphones and is a lower powered DRAM capable of much higher memory speeds and bandwidth than DDR DRAM. Now top that off with multiple channel configs and Apple's LPDDR5 is able to achieve incredibly high bandwidths that standard DDR5 can only dream of. But in the end, the RAM Apple uses is really cheap so there's no excuse for them not adding more except upselling customers.
@@fidelisitor8953 as i said, doesnt justify the price
My 2017 Macbook Pro‘s SSD wore out so quickly due to the swapping that one day it just stopped working. I‘m glad that it was still under warranty and had been replaced.
8GB isn't unusable, but there's ABSOLUTELY no way should a 1600 dollars laptop in 2023 should be having 8 GB of RAM. This is just absolutely ridiculous and inexcusable. If they haven't made a 300 dollars price increase to the base model it would be less of a disgrace
Prices a Tesla lately? ABSOLUTELY no way it should cost so much.
Wtf? Why is he getting 5.7gb used on windows Im using 3.3gb on my ryzen 5 16gb PC
correct
This
My phone has 24gb ram and costs $800 lol
Apple is not here to make the world a better place or please its customers. It's here to extract as much cash as possible from clients. Apple perfectly knows 8 Gb is insufficient, hence its selling of upgrades at a massive markup. Apple makes way more profits from RAM modules than the entire RAM manufacturing industry...
Do not forget there's law for abusive practices. If many customers report this as a scam, Apple will pay the price, as they did with staingate, iPhone battery replacement and so on.
@@nintendoeverGood luck with that. Apple has a decades long tradition of entry models having way less RAM than is practical. Not to mention flash storage in their phones. I don’t recall any court cases about either of these practices. Instead, the rest of the industry copied.
I wouldn't say it's INSUFFICIENT. My company only buys Macbook Pros for employees.... because hey... it has the word "Pro" in it and It just wants the safe bet. However, for MOST of the users, they don't do video editing... If Apple started with 16GB they'd up the price of each unit.
Maybe they'd only increase it $100 instead of $200 but still... that $100 would increase the base cost for companies.
@@TheNewGreenIsBlue The thing is that Apple makes money with RAM and Storage. That's what they have been doing by soldering RAM and SSD since MacBook Retina display in 2012-13. By doing that, they hugely overprice both RAM and Storage by a factor of at least 4 times what others charge. The reason why they keep selling MacBooks with only 8gb of ram, is a variant of decoy price strategy, to make a Mac with 16gb RAM with 512gb SSD looking like a much better option, and charge even more for cheap RAM and SSD upgrades.
@@markmuir7338iPhones start at 128gb tho. 64gb is dead
Selling a $1599 laptop with 8gb of ram in 2023 should be a crime 😮
Don't forget $1,000 has to go to the investors and $300 to Tim. If they put 16GB as a minimum, Tim would get only $280 per device.
Well after the death of Steve Jobs, Apple committed many crimes
@@Belaziraf😂😂 wow
@@Johnnyiswhere How do you think he bought his mom an iPhone ? 😁😁
"less is more... expensive (and that's it)" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Never buy 8gb laptop no matter windows or mac..
Very True. The amount of read and writes it does to your SSD will 1/4 the life expectancy. Luckily MAC doesn't play top tier games the way windows does which is Ram intensive.
Bet you never used a Mac.
Have always used/using Macs. Still, 8GB Ram is a crime to sell in 2023.
@@tonyburzio4107 The last 3 Macs that I've purchased had 32 GB of RAM. The first Apple computer I used was an Apple ][. I am a pro user and 32 GB is generally enough.
It depends what you want from that laptop...
Worth noting that the windows laptop is not running dual channel memory config, you could get even more performance by using a pair of 8GB ram sticks
I wish this comment was higher up in this thread!! I'm also surprised more people haven't noticed this! Including the dude in the video!
this comment needs more attention seriously a big thing when it comes to ram and something should know. Apple Soldered Their Ram to their Motherboard essentially making it impossible to ever upgrade or even repair. If RAM fails its likely that repair is not going to be as simple as just 'put in new ram' its going to be "take to Apple Authorised Repair shop where they can charge apple money because of a fault in the product they purposefully made to fail.
An excellent point, I didn't think of that
@@slicer2938that's the point. Same thing with soldering the SSD. You need a new unit when something does.
Can't recover your storage so you better back it up on the iCloud, not enough storage? You'll have to pay.
Its not on the CPU die, but on the CPU package @echemenon
Did I miss it but what processor was the PC running with?
According to a quick google search unified memory is purely trying to minimize or remove redundancies in the shared ram between gpu and cpu. Hence data used by the gpu and cpu will only be stored once. Makes sense for the mac which only got integrated graphics but on the legion any more graphically intensive task will be run on the dedicated gpu with its own vram.
What is worse is the mac is relying on the also not replaceable flash storage for its swap file. The flash drive has a fixed known life span. Which means you are also shortening the life span of the computer by getting the 8 gig configuration. It's kind of brilliant on Apples part in a most devious way
So true
It gets funny when you put the line up name, in a milking context. 😂
Pro milking
Max milking
Ultra milking
Apple don't need to worry about longevity. Apple users can be easily convinced to just buy in the next computer when it is released in the next one or two years... And Apple fans will do just that. Hand over all their money to Apple for the next modeel. hahahaha. Brilliant marketing by Apple.
@@arun_georgei know people that run Mac’s from 2012 and that are still happy with it. And even if you buy a new Mac every 2-3 years, the return value of your old Mac will still be pretty high, higher than what you would get from a pc.
@@KijkEenVogel Did not know that. So Apple fans would pay a bomb even for old Apple stuff eh? I guess when you've paid 10x the price for something, it's hard to sell it for less. Mac's got incredible hardware and software though, no denying. PC's (if you didn't buy the cheapest model) have some incredible hardware too; just depends what you configured in your PC system. I used a PC system for 10-12 yrs as well; no need for upgrading. That's just marketing-pressure on you. But PC prices are reasonable.
My laptop in 2015 came standard with 16gb ram. It was 699 usd. This is ridiculous in 2023.
Even with inflation the fact that at the top end they have 128GB in the same metal build also macbook pro should kinda prove the ridiculousness
Could you please share the cost and processor specs of these two machines? Thanks.
This fits my experience in the sense that similar task loading on my M3 iMac results in similar memory load as my i7 iMac.
However: I bought it with 24 GB of RAM so I usually have 8 - 10 GB of available memory except on the most consuming apps.
I don't like swap generally and with SSD even less.
Apple only giving 8GB of RAM on a pro laptop is just ridiculous - especially considering how much 16GB VASTLY improves the performance. I think it's still okay having 8GB in the base MacBook Air, but not in a pro laptop.
Apple forgot what Pro stands for.
@@interproservice Or they just never really knew in the first place 🤷🏼♂️
Basically Mac uses compression on memory and the same can be enabled on windows. But the worst part is excessive use of swap. Which will kill the SSD way earlier. Now guess what? SSD is soldered on board and ROM is on SSD, means if SSD dies then you won't be able to boot the system at all.
@@keshavejat Yup, that’s one of the things that really frustrates me about Macs. Not happy some PCs are beginning to do the same as well.
@@interproservice Pro is just a marketing trick. What is Pro computing , where it starts? For some people everything beyond simple web browsing , video watching and email is Pro work. For others its much more. For me , its programing , running VMs , remote and on site server administration ext. That is the problem , there is no defenetion what Pro stands for .Its just a marketing plot to upsell you something because "its for pro users". Just like everything on the market that has "tactical or military grade" bage can sell up to 2-3 times more then standard. In reallity "military grade" stands for low quality because gov procurement is done on lowest offer basis but most consumers dont know that.
This was definitely a marketing / finance call by Apple. The engineers at Apple would definitely be opposed to furnishing such a Pro system with only 8 GB. It is unfortunate that less knowledgeable buyers will get stuck with such a system as their computing needs grow even slightly.This reminds me of when Apple was selling the smallish iPhone 5 while other suppliers were selling larger phones which is where the demand was going. Apple missed the market trend and marketed the small size of this phone as an advantage as it would easily fit in the pocket. Buyer beware...
The other MacBooks have RAM in multiples of 3 so it's quite obvious they're using triple channel RAM. Why they didn't stay consistent and use 12GB in this model is beyond me.
A very poor call by marketing then.
I not understand that triple channel RAM thing, since when memory channel isn't dual channel like back in the days you can swap the dual memories in MacBook Pro? How about desktop? Or triple channels is laptop new advancement? But MacBook Pro now has some configuration is like dual or 4 channels and some are odd number jump which is likely triple channel you mentioned, there are 8,12,18,24,36,48,64,128, is there explaination video talk about this? And why Apple triple channels, isn't back then we learned that to keep the memory perform the best, you need to have equal amount of ram in these dual channel, is triple channel going to perform worse compare to dual and quad channels which is equal amount or just make sure the memory are same number in each of the triple channels will do?
This reminds me of my old Macbook air with 4gb of ram. Sure, it is still somewhat snappy, but my god do those 4gb of ram and 128gb of storage don't age well. For comparison, a VAIO Z of the same year (2012) had upwards of 8gb of ram and a 512gb ssd. This isn't anything new, Apple is just terrible at giving the user real amounts of usable memory from the get go.
@@NetvoTVtriple channel has been a thing since ddr3 I believe but correct me if I'm wrong
About it being in a laptop, this is the first I'm hearing of it tbh
What are the characteristics of the Lenovo Legion Windows laptop, the exact processor model and what video card was used?
Nvidia RTX 3050???
Very useful tests & info - thanks!!
It’s sad Apple sells bunch of new Macs in 2023 with shamefully inadequate specs like 8GB Ram & 256GB SSD. No new computers should have less than 16GB Ram & 1TB SSD in 2023.
so even $300 chromebooks should have 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD? 8GB is enough for normal tasks like web browsing or sending emails so 16GB isn't required. There's no way any laptop, even a windows one will come with those specs at $300 - $500.
Yeah I think he meant “pro” marketed laptops
@@jacobortega3424 from his idiotic last sentence i dont think he meant only Pros
@@fidelisitor8953 Chromebook IS NOT a real computer. It is just a web browser or glorified “iPad”, with keyboards. I am talking a real productivity NOTEBOOK.
@@xeon2k8 Anyone who thinks a $300-$500 Chromebook should have the same spec as US$1,600 “Pro” Notebook is delusional.People who’ve read my comment and have some sort of intelligence would know what I meant which is, “Apple is ripping people off selling a $1,600 “Pro” fully-speced out notebook with good SoC but only to give it 8GB Ram & 256GB SSD.”
Even more horrifying is what they charge for upgrades! Right now on pc-partpicker 2x16(32)gb sodimm laptop memory ddr-5-5600mt is $120usd, and a 2terabyte pcie gen 4 m.2-2280 ssd is $100 .. Apple charges way more for each of those..
12x the markup for storage is wild. 8GB, 256 GB of storage would be standard for a budget MacBook, not the MACBOOK PROFESSIONAL!
To be fair, the ram is also for video memory, when was the last time you could upgrade your video memory on a PC? (Hint, never in modern times)
@@hajjdawood But at the same time, it puts more strain on the tiny memory because both CPU and GPU have to share 50:50 a measly 8GB RAM meaning you get only 4GB for the GPU and more wear and tear.
@@hajjdawoodWow, you really won’t stop at anything to try and justify the Mac’s bad performance
@@hajjdawood I don't understand you. My brand new mini-pc with Ryzen 7840hs shares the same DDR5 RAM with the integrated Radeon graphics. When I upgrade RAM, that GPU ram also gets upgraded. Because it's shared. AMD even calls it Unified Memory Architecture (UMA).
Judging by the task manager on the windows machine it seems like you have 16gb in single channel since it says "Slots used: 1 of 2". I would recommend that you redo the tests in a 16gb dual channel configuration since for Intel and AMD machines it makes a really big difference in performance. Also it seems to me that the swap space used on windows is showed under "committed".
+1
If Apple wanted quality segmentation, the M3 would start at 12GB and max out at 24GB, with BOTH configs available in-store for folks who can't wait on custom orders/don't even know about them. The M3 Pro should start at 24GB and max out at 48GB and go hog wild with the Max RAM configs, it just feels like that was the trajectory we were on before M3. I know its easy to spend Apple's money but look at RAM prices and it's rather reasonable, even considering Apple's generous margins.
I hate the fact that Apple doesn't have 16GB M2 Air to buy right away 😢😡
But then people could buy the 24GB model ON DISCOUNT instead of build-to-order from Apple's website. Unthinkable!
That’s exactly what happened to me. I was looking for MacBook Air. There were only 8gb variants available at the apple store and I didn’t have time to wait for online order to arrive. And the difference of $200 is kind of significant as the laptop itself starts at $1k. So had to take the 8gb/512ssd.
They want you to pay $200 to buy 16GB which is enough. Apple is not about quality. They want to make money.
Yes that is a big point I made in my previous 8GB vs 16GB video. 16GB is not a stocked system so if you want to get one in store or even shipped fast you have to get an 8GB M3 or step up to the $2000 M3 Pro. If you want a 16GB M3 its like 1-1.5 weeks before you get it. The sucky thing is people will go and buy an 8GB M3 because of the price point and then later realize they need more and have to buy a whole nother computer which of course is nice for Apple.
Apple has the pricing setup to make you go to the next model higher. If you price out the base model and then add another 8 gb your so close to the next model up you might as well just pay the Apple tax to get it! They also know that if you want a good laptop that actually works on battery power they are the only game in town.
You know nothing, you buy 8gb, you are happy with a price and performance as you have no clue about computers, software etc, you do not need anything more anyway at least you know your laptop is affordable. If you go to store and start asking they will propose you upgrade, decision in your head for Mac was already done so adding extra 10% to price is normally no problem to sell. If you are aware of reality, you never buy 8Gb, you buy upgrades/higher models. That is the point. Apple wants people see their computers affordable and in the same time making most of the people buying them expensive or as upgrades or higher models. This is genius, perfect business model. I can't criticise it as really base models with 8Gb as office machines with long battery durability they are just perfect for years to come - see M1base Air. You can see it basically with almost every car manufacturer - most of the profit comes from options - same with Apple. Exceptions are iPhones/Tesla they are loaded but they have price already anyway.
The only reason the battery life lasts longer on macbooks is because of the newer and efficient electronic components drawing very very low amount of power they hit the jackpot with the new components....My father is an electronic engineer and we opened the M1 macbook to check what kind of battery they used and what's inside but there's nothing special inside just a normal battery ... they invested in the new electronic components drawing absolutely nothing hence the battery life
Yes their unified Arm chips are next level efficient, they really are sippers of electricity.@@Hgvpuncher
this is why i buy used macbook pros 👍🏼 get all the upgrades of a gen or two ago for thousands of dollars less
@@Hgvpuncher "they invested in the new electronic components" - ARM existing from 80s just disappears
What were the price tags exactly of the two models tested?
@Titancameraman-dg3xoAlright? 😂
In Linux (Ubuntu) we can actually increase or decrease the swappiness value of our system to tell the PC to use more ram and less swap storage (hard disk) as ram, this speeds up the system significantly 😊
It's in Windows and even Android. Most likely part of MacOS too.
Nobody cares about Linux
@@daanw6270 Declining Windows marketshare says otherwise
Nobody except nerds are ready to use a 10 years late OS
@@daanw6270 Windows was literally considered "spyware" by the tech industry, it send so much analytics and other personal stuff that its worse than a virus... To top it off, you pay 110$ for an OS that has ADS baked in, that's ridiculous
M1 was phenomenal. But in recent years laptops on Windows have done a lot of work in those areas where they lagged behind: Quite good screens, touchpads that are useful, fast SSDs, very good hardware (mobile Nvidia 4xxx are great). But Apple remains in the same logic regarding memory/storage prices. Yes, the M3 is a little faster, but the speed and efficiency of hardware is not Apple's primary problem right now. As a buyer, I see enormous practical progress on the side of Windows laptops and hardly see it on the Apple side. And you know what ? In Europe prices even worse. I can buy Asus or Lenovo for almost US price, but it's different story with Apple.
No tbh intel didnt really make up that much since m1. They are still quite behind. Amd on the other hand has much more modern cpus to compete with apple silicon imo
@@magnus9316 they didn't mention intel though. Intel can't really compete with U/P series to AMD's U series, but Intel H series vs AMD H series is neck and neck. Either way, even intel U series 13th gen competes with apple silicon m2 in speed alone. apple has benefits still as always, but these days, it's not always possible to justify spending $2000 on a mac when you can spend like $400+ less on a comparable windows machine
@@trademarktmel pure cpu speed is similar. But that comes at a cost of maybe half the battery life and the igpu is a lot worse.
@@magnus9316 And that only because they are using EXTREMELY outdated tech for their chips, squishing more and more with diminishing returns.
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 exactly. Tbh i dont really feel like its a discussion any more when comparing an intel laptop to amd or apple thats meant to be carried around
Thanks for another informative video guys I really appreciate it keep up the good work 👍
Please tell me, how fast is the SSD connection on the MacBook? :))
I have been using MacBook for my work and I recently downgraded from MBP 16" i9 to MBA m2. Although the baseline both are similar, multitasking just with chrome is a pain and the m2 just bottlenecks with lack of ram. Apple just knows how to squeeze the money out of you. I really miss my i9. Heck it works great in windows bootcamp.
For the love of god just don't use Chrome in general on any machine
The small RAM/SSD sizes and the huge extra charges for upgrades were the reasons for me to leave Apple(MacBook Pro 16 M1 Max) some days ago! I really like their M-CPUs but i dislike their company policy more and more...
they can keep the trashy 8 gig model for all I care, but $200, just to upgrade to 16... that's more than I paid for my 2x16 gig kit last year.
I returned MBP 14 M2Pro for the same reason. It had 16 GB of memory and 512 GB of SSD, not even an issue for now and may not be at least in a few years.
But being unable to repair the SSD, which definitely holds my private data, myself to destroy it after replacing after some time later it may end up broken, was a kicker.
Sure the ARM architecture was great to be mobile, but Intel/AMDs are catching up with x86 and even Qualcomm is becoming a main contender with ARM architecture side as well. Not to mention Windows for ARM is looking better than it was years ago.
I think, if Inter were able to release current 'Ultra' series back in 2019-20, Apple would have still been releasing Intel macs. But then again, having not able to replace a broken SSD is a huge problem.
Apple has probably only released an M3 series laptop with 8GB of RAM at such a high price so that the OS is forced to use memory swap on the SSD which decreases the shelf-life of the flash storage chip which will die faster and force the user to buy a new machine which they otherwise would not need as it would be uneconomical to desolder the flash chips and solder in new ones since the Mac Books or Mac Minis do not come with M.2 PCIe slots or Mac Studio/Mac Pro flash storage modules.
8GB of RAM or Less should only come with a computer which has an original sale price of
When have you ever worn out an SSD? Literally when?
I use a cheap SSD as a cache drive an in 1 year I could write hundreds of terabytes in it. Guess what, some of the SSDs lasted me longer than HDDs.
@@l4kr You DO wear out SSDs with frequent file transfer and large sized files. People check up TBW when purchasing a M.2 SSD for the same reason. And yes, professional workload requires these kind of operation a lot. Read up how NAND works and Tunneling first.
How long is the battery life on each machine?
Why Apple people accept this kind of abuse from this company.
Brainwashing
Brand loyalty. 🤡
brainwashed.
Because we accept to pay the price for the advantages Macbooks brings: efficiency, productivity and longevity
I don't care I paid my computer 4500$ if it allows me to make more money
@@Decentraliseur Alright I understand. But unfortunately, this also assumes that there is no PC that gives you these advantages? No PC manufacturer, no brand does the same or better than Apple?
You are doing great work, people need to see this 😊
Apple make their computers a pitiful 8Gb of RAM and 256GB Storage base, for one reason and one reason only to conceal the fact their computers are actually £400 more expensive than the advertised price !
So.. You mentioned that Windows Laptop’s RAM can be upgraded, since it has a n empty slot. So did you really tested Windows laptop without dual channel or I got it wrong?
Model and specs of the Windows laptop?
Multitasking is not just having another window opened in the background, this can easily be swapped out, but eg. using multiple monitors, having multiple apps active in process will make this thing even worse. i would propose this test with both devices with an external monitor attached having multiple applications and/or browser videos active. so that there is no ability to swap out any not in the foreground browser tab, i fear this will destroy the 8Gb Mac vs. intel 16 Gb, despite having a more effective ram management. My prediction is that apple very efficient swaps out background tasks to give the memory to the foreground tasks, but if there are no background tasks so far its difficult.
Its a lot harder to shoot that video and prove things are happening in real-time, but yea that would be an even bigger load. Thats why I also wen't back while tasks were running to the web broswer and other apps to show when something can't just be cached or on swap and not needing to be used.
One of my production program runs under WINE and Rosetta 2 and it uses up a lot of extra RAM because of that. I also used to use a program that was native Java on Intel Java and that ran 3 times slower than on Apple Silicon Java. The software company only provided the native version a few months ago. So I went with 32 GB of RAM on my M1 Pro MacBook Pro and that has worked out well. My 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros came standard with 16 GB of RAM. It is 2023 now. Great video.
but intel macbooks were tremendously bad value each time though yes apple silicon rock at the moment
@@johnsuckher3037 The 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros were quite good and my 2014 is still used daily for work by our son. My 2015 is my backup laptop. They are a good value today at $150-$200.
@@johnsuckher3037Intel Macs were good value at that moment. And they were upgradeable
Not our fault ur mac needs weird apps to run programs
@@michaozga7825 Who said anything was your fault. Various applications need more RAM than others. I used to use an Exadata system. These have 1.4 TB of RAM and hundreds of TB of storage. You use the right system for the right application.
Can you restart, or take a photo of 7:18. I want to see what is using 5 1/2 GB. I zoomed in, try clearing cache next time for comparison! :)
All of these use cases, ARM or x86 are pretty basic. What about relational performance when paired with precision calculation software or engineering pipelines? I'd be worried that ARM would skip important instructions or have to emulate more.
Wow! Finally someone actually doing a real world test!
Even though you're right and all people is agreed to say 8gb is not enough today for a Mac, but you compare a baseline MBK pro with a i9 windows laptop with RTX GPU maybe 4060, I think there is some biais, what do you think 🤔
The speed compared to each other isn't really the point, it's the difference in speed when you're performing tasks while lots of RAM is being used. The mac has no head room, so immediately gets slower. Lots of performance left on the table for absolutely no reason other than Apple wanting to sell you an extra 8 gig for 200$ and is worth less than 20$. In a 1600$ machine btw. It's even affecting the lifespan of the machine so you would need to buy another one much sooner, which Apple obviously doesn't mind either. It's just anti consumer and greedy. Even making up lies that 8gig is the same as 16 in a windows machine which makes 0 sense. But it doesn't matter, Apple cultists will keep bending over for this company forever.
What are the lenovo machines specs and its price? Also whats the battery status after those tests for both machines?
Does these devices have same price point?
Maybe what everyone said about RAM capacity are true. I remembered reading comments about 4 Gigs on Surface Laptop Go 2 maybe. For that price it comes with 4 Gigs. And unfortunately, it soldered. Not slotted like other used
m3 8gb memory ram is ridiculous...
I never see that pointed out on Surface Pro, Galaxy Book Pro, XPS 13, etc reviews! All of which start at 8GB in the UK!!! So, if you are just flexing on Apple then I will say you are probably just flexing. The industry standard for ultrabooks is 8GB, right or wrong, and as Windows has 91% of the market, they set the parameters and are to blame. Of course, most Windows reviews are sponsored so creators are sent top of the line configs and they never buy the base Galaxy Book 3 Pro (etc) and test that out, for obvious reasons (lose sponsorships).
@@ahaimes6320 Apple fanboy detected
Having 8GB of ram is like having 64gb of storage on phones. It doesnt affect many people who doesnt install bunch of mobile games and use it just for the basic stuff, but definitely not enough for people who dont. In my opinion, Apple really needs to consider about making the base model at least 16gb for basic muiltitasking at work, and maybe make a SE version like iPhones for people who plan to use it for uni, watching videos and etc.
What was the CPU on that PC?
My 4 years old Windows machine was constantly hitting more than 7GB on a single 8GB RAM stick while only doing office tasks on the browser. Gaming was a hassle because of the constant hitches, even though it sports a basic discrete GPU card. Now it runs way better with two 8GB sticks, the hitches on gaming have been far lessened, and opening applications from the SSD has gotten faster. The RAM situation is even more relevant on gadgets with a SoC that also use the RAM as virtual memory, so you lose on performance bc of that, not because the CPU/GPU isn't powerful enough.
Apple's RAM = made of gold
and assembled by small Chinese hands
Intel is making exactly the same chip, get ready!
@@tonyburzio4107 bout time, we needed some competition from Windows. Just hoping the practices of soldered ram (Yes I know it's faster but I would trade speed for upgradability and lower cost), and soldered storage (Apple's SSD's aren't any faster I don't know why this still happens),
@@4070super "you got some money for me boah? saw your name in our ledger"
this is the video i was waiting for very good work @Max Tech
I just want to know can a 8Gb mac run my backend with essearch+redis+pgsql in docker and frontend using android studio at same time ?Also I need to run the eidtor to edit the code. I try it on a 8Gb mac and frozen
What's the best laptop for livestream ?
Which windows laptop was that
I have the Lenovo Legion Slim 7i, which looks like the same model used in this test, and it has 16GB soldered to the motherboard with a single open SO-DIM slot. This means that if you don't add another 16GB to the Lenovo, it cannot take advantage of dual-channel memory architecture, and it performs worse than other 16GB dual-channel laptops on memory-intensive benchmarks.
If it has ddr5 isn’t a single stick already dual channel just by its architecture?
I don't mind the 8gb ... I mind the $200 upgrade cost.
yea its rediculous
Than you are not much smart, and the only thing that kept you form being an apple zombie is the lack of money.
@@MrLelopes LOL - if you say so champ!
@@ronmac1832 He's not wrong 16 GB should just be standard on the base model
@@zk0rned they should still sell an 8GB option, but they should made 16GB the cost of 8GB
Great test 👍🏻
Keeping companies honest, good job! And thank you for a great comparison!
I remember when the M1s came out and a number of tests were done comparing 8GB to 16GB. At the time, differences were only seen with extreme multitasking. Now, maybe because programs require more memory or other factors, there is a difference even at base line (ie not multitasking).
The cost to Apple for additional RAM is trivial so it won't detract from their profits to start at higher RAM. However, what they will lose are the massive markups they make on optional additional RAM (which is kind of necessary for decent performance). I don't know how that can be resolved.
No. What Apple loses is potential repurchase of MacBook in 5 years time. The reason Apple put miniscule amount of RAM is NOT to let you upgrade the RAM at the start of the purchase, but was designed so that you ALWAYS buy a laptop every ~5 years time
@@renebaebae0600 which is a dick move against environment and customer.
@@sushobhonkonar1155 which is true. Im not defending apple, just try to explain the logical business reasoning between it
The only way to resolve this, is to never buy anything from Apple
@@kornaros96 even though they have better build quality, better speakers, better screens, better touchpads, better keyboards, better webcams, better OS, better apps (mac apps are so much better than windows apps), much better battery life, much less power consumption, and much better thermals
and you also need to deduct memory for the GPU… sweet.
Thanks for showing it to the people!
what cpu/gpu/ssd normal laptop have?
For its intended market, 12GB/256GB (with the same NANDs the iMac has) would have worked better. The upgrade gouging is criminal.
I bought the base M1 air with the 16gb ram upgrade the other year and couldn't be happier
maybe because you do not know computers and got scammed
@@reahs4815 Why he wouldn't know computers?
I have a Windows 11 laptop with 16GB RAM and also a MacBook Pro 13" 2013 with 8GB RAM running macOS 14.3 and the 16GB is really a big difference when multitasking. (and I'm not talking about the speed but memory allocation)
I was looking for an new Mac. But with the new painful M3 options I just could not find the mac for me. Waiting a year again…
Hey guys thanks for the comparison!!
Could you please do a detailed shootout comparing the full 16” M2 Max vs the base 16” M3 Max? They’re the same price, since Apple raised the price of the M3 Max. The M3 has more CPU but the M2 actually has quite a bit more GPU, so I’m curious how this would play out in your detailed tests. I would greatly appreciate if you consider this, and please include Resolve denoising performance! Thanks!
I still using 8 Gigs RAM on my new Laptop. Mine is Lenovo Ideapad Slim 3 14". But for my tasks is still enough even maybe better than my Asus that using 4 Gigs. Only basic creations, casual Browsing also My College
Thankfully is still upgradeable up to 24 Gigs maximum, from what I found on Internet
Haha. I have 6 GB in my 13 yo MBP....
what kinda mac model is this exactly?
Would love to see this comparison with linux. I have a 2013 Dell Precision 8gb i5 running KDE Neon. When i'm working i normally have about 8 browser tabs, Pycharm, Azure Data Studio, and a couple of bash shells for monitoring. It uses roughly 6.5gb ram.
Just wanted to inform you, Windows actively uses swap even when the RAM is nowhere near to full, just so that you can have more free RAM, which is kind of genius. for example at 0:51 you can see that although 5.7 GB of physical RAM is being used, 8.3GB of RAM is actually being used, so it's already using 2.6GB of SSD Swap memory in order to free up some of that physical RAM. Also, it says that 8.3GB out of 25.8GB of "memory" is being used, which is because there is a ~10GB swapfile that the system allocated on top of the 16GB of physical RAM.
It's the same with OS X. I have 64gb in my system and according to activity monitor i have 5gb of swap while only gaving 36gb RAM used. Prices of memory in recent macs is nuts.
I have a hard time understanding how using swap when ram is nowhere near full beneficial?
SSDs have a limited lifetime compared to ram sticks, so you're essentially wearing out your ssd when you have zero need to do so.
@@deadboy9955 it puts system components that don’t need constant reading into the swap memory so that the RAM is cleared up for better performance and more free RAM, but yes it will wear out the SSD(very slowly as there isn’t that much swap being used normally)
@@homurak8 from what I garner, it's reason seems to be more for preserving data in case of a system crash. As ram is volatile, if everything's stored in ram then it is lost in a crash, but the pagefile/swap is not lost and can be recovered.
@@deadboy9955 that’s also a reason, yes, but most of the data is stored in the volatile ram anyways and will be lost, and some of it will be written to a dump file. most programs like the microsoft office suite will continually write to a temporary directory on the drive anyways in case of catastrophic power loss
I have had 8gb M1 Air from day one. I upgraded 16gb i9 Pro, and the performance is about the same.
I even do Cinema4D / FinalCut 4K a little. And when you know your limits this is not a big deal. Another is that there is no reason to update any Apple Silicon notebook to 8gb of ram.
Yes it’s crazy how people think too much about specs and they just don’t even hit 70% usage
Am happy with my MBA M1 base model.
Apple for life 😂😂
@@hzalk4952 Until your SSD dies out and then you'll have to give Apple more of your money to buy a new machine.
They aren't doing magic with their RAM. The excess data that can't be stored in memory gets moved to your SSD which has a fixed shelf life. After a certain amount of read/writes, your SSD will stop functioning and when that happens Apple will be delighted to sell you another machine with 8GB of RAM again.
@@hzalk4952 it's not really about what the machines can do, but it's this very excuse making which emboldened apple to skimp and lie in their marketing because the cultish fans won't hold apple's feet to the fire.
Please post the specs/config of the Lenovo legion here. Thanks.
even 16gb is too low in 2023... my work as university student: 2 pdf book (1500-2000 pages), pdf of the lectures, pdf of last year lectures, 1 powerpoint, browser with 2-4 tabs = 10 gb of ram.
it works on my 8gb mac but the files in the swap memory lags a lot
This is essentially what would happen if an iPad with an M series SOC ran Mac OS. Apple needs to optimize Mac OS for 8GB RAM or simply put enough RAM in these computers so the system can multitask without a big performance hit.
No amount of optimizations will bring down memory usage anymore with all the compression and stuff going on. They just need to stop being selfish and offer more RAM in their machines. 8GB LPDDR5 only costs like a dollar so it doesn't cost them anything.
Apple can only do so much. RAM usage on something like Lightroom is entirely Adobe's responsibility.
but 8 gigs on a machine costing over a grand is inexcusable, and charging $200 to get 16 instead of the pathetic 8 is nearing the level of extortion as I paid $140 for a 32 gig RAM Kit when I built my system last year.
The fact is that Apple has the gall to offer this MacBook "pro" in my country at a price that's almost double that of the Legion which is considered a middle-tier to high-end gaming Laptop. (The Legion is priced in the range of the cheapest MacBook airs) or that 8GB RAM even exists in the Apple production line. 16 GB RAM is what i have on my 2014 Lenovo machine that's the predecessor of the Legion line and was cheaper then any MacBook at the electronics store where I bought it.
where to find that mac wallpaper?
No, model or specs for the Legion?
An important note on upgradable RAM is it is regular DDR which isn't as power efficient as LPDDR. So far you cannot get LPDDR as modules like with DDR. Of course it would be nice if Apple wasn't as closed off about user upgradeability/repairability but just often an overlooked aspect in regards to upgradeable RAM.
Actually a 16GB ram costs less than 20$ available for manufacturer .
And It's disgusting to see peoplesakking manufacturers Dc.
@@vmafarah9473 16GB costs less than $5 in the volume most manufacturers purchase. I remember checking some Micron DRAM distributors for their pricing and 16GB LPDDR5 in 1million+ pcs was about $2.5 - $3 per piece. These things cost Apple almost nothing extra but they're still stingy with it.
Their focus seems to be on making profits off their ridiculous RAM upgrades and on getting people to buy obsolete machines so they can sell them a new one every 3 years or so.
Shady move from Apple because they use 6GB modules on the M3 Pro machine, that has 3 RAM slots and that's why the base one equals to 18GB. They clearly want to step the base M3 machine even lower to differentiate the M3 Pro.
So is 16gb of ram for light photo and video editing, web browsing, email and video enough for the next 3 years? I'm wanting to buy a new MacBook, I do upgrade every 3 years.
are the cpu's equivalent ?
Glad I maxed out my 16" M1 Max MBP when I ordered it. When I learned there would be no way to upgrade anything at all, I figured maxing it out was my only option.
And that makes apple succeed.
No your other option was to not fall for that scam and buy a different brand. But I am quite content with the working of apple devices at work in general, (although i never buy them myself privately) so if it does the job for you I am not saying your option was bad, just that it was NOT the only option.
@@Blackadder75 buy a different brand and lose every thing better about macbooks just to get more ram? thats fucking stupid
I thought already with the introduction of the M1 chip it was clear, Apple created some magic by putting the SoC, RAM and SSD so close together. Much better performance and much better efficiency because of the improved proximity of those 3 components (among other things).
But ultimately 16gb is still 16gb.
If the closeness of those 3 components was all that was needed then Apple wouldnt release higher capacity RAM macbooks.
Despite having a way lower TDP, they still manage to thermal throttle a few models.
The speed difference between different memory layers is so large that no amount of spatial locality on the board could ever make up for data having to be stored in a higher layer.
Not to mention, you're completely trashing your SSD in the process. SSDs have a very limited number of write cycles, which lasts you comparatively long when used as a permanent storage medium but can be reached fairly quickly when in constant use as swap space for your RAM.
@@pmHidden then don't open up 10000 tabs or just don't use the lowest budget Mac for video edition or similar.
I only use mine for office stuff, surfing, shopping, CZcams, etc.
Nothing that would really put any strain on RAM or the SSD.
@@jonson856 So you only use it for tasks you can do with a laptop, tablet, or even smartphone at 1/4th the price with zero stutters?
It's frankly ridiculous to suggest that somebody shouldn't expect a 2k "Pro" machine to do some basic productivity tasks without slowing down or degrading your hardware.
What are you even paying for at that point? An oversized paperweight that tells other people you like throwing money out of the window?
@@pmHidden the M1 Mac Mini in its lowest config cost me 690 Euros at the time (back even if was released).
At the same time there were no equivalent PCs with the same or similar form factor, energy efficiency, performance, noise and price aspects in one package.
This may have changed now, but back then if there were a windows equivalent to the M1 Mac Mini, I would have bought it.
Appendix:
In my opinion, nobody should be doing heavy tasks on any kind of computing device which only has 8 GB of RAM.
So, using your "argument" any device with 8 or less GB is just a paper weight. Anyone who bought such a device has thrown money out their window....🤡
So I don't know what your problem is. Most users are NOT heavy users or what ever they are called. For them doing the stuff I do on my Mac Mini M1, such a device or the windows equivalent, is more than enough.
What is the spec of the win laptop
It is also using the SSD as swap file, meaning it will degrade more rapidly. That is catastrophic when the SSD is also soldered in and cannot be replaced.
I hope Apple learns a lesson from this. I was going to buy the M3 iMac and then I decided against it due to that RAM scam. I can get by very nicely with my Intel iMac that has 16GB RAM. And Apple wonders why their sales were down in the last quarter??
For every intelligent person like yourself there's 1000 fools who will do the opposite.
I bet from a marketing point of view they're doing the right thing to make $$$$$
Yet this has been what Apple has been doing since around mid 2000's. they havent learned then they will never learn now.
@@arbiter1 I would consider getting a Windows PC, but my Mac TimeMachine backups can't be converted for Windows, from what I've heard. I'm sick of Apple charging sky-high rates for RAM.
Chinese intervention that banning Apple devices from their 'nation' owned or operated facilities can be the main reason. Unlike US or any western countries, many of 'big' companies and facilities are owned by Chinese government there. And also need to consider that most of PC sales are coming out of those 'facility' purchases not retail.
I think Apple kept the 8 GB / 256 GB set up just to supply those 'work computers' instead of actually selling them to any professionals or someone who actually has expectations for a ~1,000 USD machine. On the other hand, Chinese population who can afford such expensive boutique machine with menial spec is way more than any western hemisphere combined.
Let's hope those Chinese switching to Huawei or their own stuff. Then who knows? Apple may have to re-evaluate their shady tactics.
it's a brilliant money-milking strategy by Apple and you can say I'm impressed.
they actually expected videos like this showing that 8GB isn't enough and they are counting on it because buyers will go for a higher-speced system I mean 200$ for an extra 8GB RAM is very profitable to Apple.
not really, it's the same price for $16 GB RAM at launch (m2 pro 14 was $1999 base). the 8 gb is just a lower starting price. the bigger thing is apple hiding it a bit by putting the 16gb SKU behind custom orders rather than being able to pick it up in store
@@trademarktmel Which is why it's a brilliant money-milking strategy! They discount only the 8GB models while they make you pay full price for the 16GB models because they know most people will be buying that model. Brilliant!
Both are on power?
In terms of speed it absolutely could be equal due to the way paging and cpu cache works.
One thing we need to understand is that Apple will tell you what they want you to believe in. They are good at that.
Time to compare the m3 max with a 4080/4090 laptop.
Its been time for like a month now. 4090 will still be way better on GPU side. Also some 4090/4080 laptops you can get for twice as cheap as the 40 core M3 Max. I bought mine 4090 for 2900$ , while the equivalent 2tb M3 Max would cost me almost 6 grand here in Europe.
@@BeaglefreilaufKalkar about 2 hours gaming and about 40db but can ramp up to about50db./5-6 hours of mixed use otherwise..35-45db fan noise.😜Hey you asked,bro!
@@nuclearchef-san8304 no one will be gaming on battery power on windows laptops so who cares, to get the full power it needs to be plugged in, and regardless the mobile 4090 will easily outperform any m3 chip gpu
@@chrism869 I have and do while on the go and not plugged in.. My worst time was at 1hour use on battery while gaming. my first reply was from my own experience.. And yes the 4090mobile smokes m3max in terms of graphics horsepower, I never said it didn’t?
@@ThinLineMedia Macs have been and will probably always be more expensive than other brands, that is something people have known for decades now. On the GPU side, yeah, your 4090 will be a macbook pro killer machine but only while plugged in, which for a LAPTOP is nonsense for most buyers: when purchasing a Laptop people normally buy it considering the fact that most of the time they're somewhere else and not at home hence with little access to power. If you need to be plugged in to maximize your performance, then I would get a dekstop pc with NVIDIA, and not a gaming laptop. What's more I prefer waiting more time, even 10 times more rather than covering my ears until that gaming latptop noise stops.
Can anyone tell me what Windows laptop used in this video???
I have one complaint about the video you said the physical memory used on the windows machine not the committed memory which includes swap but tph that didn't matter anyway
Good video. The 8gb on this pro machine is pitiful. Almost as bad as the iMac with only a 256gb ssd. Apple has completely lost touch
12 GB Ram Phones laughing in the corner 😂
For those who doubted this. I have a Macbook Pro M1 16gb. Spilled coffee on it and brought it to Apple, they said they'll have to replace the keyboard hardtop. I have Apple Care so, whatever. Anyways, whilst repairing their "genius" broke the logic board and that has to be replaced too. I found out because they gave me two invoices, one for the hardtop and one for the logic board. No cost to me though because they screwed it up. Some light check on the spot, all good. Went home and fired some program (can't remember which), and noticed it slow like a snail. Then I found in the Activity Monitor, it said 8gb so their "genius" replaced the wrong logic board which I had to take it back to them. Dude got one job and screwed it up twice. Anyways, 8gb is for surfing the web, if you actually do something? it'll slow you down. This is an old trick, used on iPhones, the entry model is cheap but gets you nowhere then you'll need to upgrade and that's where they rip you off.
Great video! Good job uncovering that lie.