AMD Gave Us Too Much Power | CPU Naming Problems
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
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Steve & Gordon discuss AMD's new laptop CPU naming problem where, after 17 minutes of discussion, we determine that the year is ultimately the problem for AMD's new naming scheme. This was mostly meant to be a fun discussion at an event where we had just been given a decoder wheel for AMD's new CPU names. The wheel is genuinely really cool, but it does indicate a bigger problem -- needing a decoder ring to understand a product name.
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - If You Need This, There's a Problem
01:51 - Discussion
04:46 - First Name Makes No Sense
06:05 - AMD Selling Old Cores with New Names
07:44 - What They're TRYING to Say
10:43 - Selling Lousy Things to Make Money
17:43 - THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE YEAR
21:00 - A Good Problem to Have
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This was just us getting back into 'trade show style' videos and working with someone else on some fun stuff! More normal content and reviews up soon!
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Wheel to decode, use as to encode, and named that they don't works... yeah, next level.
It's almost like companies are purposely trying to create memes about them now. Who would have thought that memes are the next advertising opportunity. 😂
Yet another great show, Steve & Co! Thank you...🇺🇸 😎👍☕
I don't get this....the wheel is excellent. Reviewers will, very easily, be able to get direct information for any CPU from the naming scheme..... All we have had, for years, is an investigation needed to decipher specs. I think the wheel is actually a big 'fess up' for AMD....they are not hiding anything.
This is not new for AMD it's a good cost cutting measure and it also makes it easier for them to enter the chromebook market
AMD: First we competed with Intel on price, then we competed on efficiency, then on performance, and now on confusing naming schemes.
Except that at least Intel naming was predictable (if a bit long). AMD just chucking numbers in the air and hoping they land _somewhere_ on the wheel.
I hope AMD won't compete with monitor manufacturers on their long model names. That sux.
@@clansome That is not true. i7-11370H and i7-11800H. The prior is a 4 core CPU with x4 PCI-e lanes for the GPU, the latter is an 8 core CPU with x16 PCI-e lanes for the GPU. I don't see how predictable it is. Both AMD and Intel has some really confusing names.
@@fleurdewin7958 Yeah I'd forgotten about those parts. I was thinking of the laptop parts that "mirror" (sort of ) the desktop parts. Just had a look on Intel's website and there are so many, mind 80% are not intended for enthusiast type builder. Irony is I have a 12700H in my laptop but it has 2 fewer P cores than a 12700 but 4 more E cores. Make sense really but as you say not the same even if the thread count is the same.
They're destroying the last stronghold Intel has left! Noooooo......
Just to put it into perspective: AMD had a great naming scheme when zen launched. Just a 1000 for the first gen. Then they inexplicably decided to call their mobile parts for 2000, even though they were in fact 1000 series chips. Everyone thought, well this will cause problems. Their Zen+ chips were called 2000 and Zen 2, 3000. Everything is all good for dekstop. Mobile parts were perpetually one generation behind. And to make matters worse, AMD decided that the desktop APU parts should also adopt this same naming scheme.
So now we had a true generational marker for desktop without graphics, and APU's for dekstop AND mobile with confusing, leapfrogging naming. AMD realised this mistake and their solution was to skip 4000 for desktop and jump straight to 5000. Why? Nobody knows. Maybe to line up with RDNA2? Well, that lasted for one whole generation. It's anyones guess now.
We had some straggling zen 2 parts with 4000 names for a while, but with Zen 3 and the arrival of mobile 5000 parts. Everyone finally lined back up. Zen 3 on desktop, and mobile. Even desktop 5000G. 5K across the board. It took them 4 years to correct their terrible naming mistake.
Now? They decided to release a new mobile Zen 3+ architecture called 6000, and they decided to skip it entirely for desktop. We're out of sync yet again. 7000 is the new rage, somehow. Multibillion dollar company ladies and gentlemen. With no shred of naming competence. Do not get me started on their GPU division. My brother in christ.
It shouldn't be hard. Have like 3 or 4 tiers. A gaming focused CPU. Then the mobile line.
So, a 7700MG would be a 7th gen, ryzen 7, mobile and gaming.
It's like BMW and their cars, they've saturated the market with a few models with several variants.
I think you missed out on the 5300u, 5500u, and 5700u being zen 2 based instead of zen 3.
Still better than USB Implementer Forums naming USB standards.
@@mingyi456 shit you are right. It was the 5000H parts that were Zen 3. And the U was Zen 2. What a shitshow. Edit: with a few high end Zen 3 U parts as well. Forgot about those.
@@mingyi456 it's GCN all over again hd 7870 became the r9 270 and then r7 370
It's mind boggling
Jesus and Buddha together 🤣
Hellboy noticed it first
Kkkkkkk
Holy shit😂😂😂
lolllllllllllllllll
You wrong for that
That wheel makes me think of the good old Monkey Island copyright protection wheel.
That's a throwback!
I can't believe your audacity
I remember that stuff, I believe it was used to halt piracy, but some bois at the neighborhood ended up making photocopies of all the possible symbols
@@saghwteam We made them by just draw it with the Hand. Or later it was just cracked anyways and you could hit any if the Symbols in Game and it would work regardless.
Wonder if the new Monkey Island that releases in a few Days will have one again.
Jokes aside, that is a decoding wheel, not an encoding wheel. It is not designed to design a part number, it is designed to look at an actual part and see what is comprised of.
Remember, there are two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, off by one errors.
Classic
thats 3
18:18 It is just to make OEMs happy, if they can't put bigger numbers on boxes they are not happy, this is why we have ~12 iterations if the gt 430
I would have no problems with them selling older parts, as long as they were represented as such in the name. I am highly annoyed that I bought two 5700U laptops for my parents thinking they were Zen3 and finding out later they are Zen2. I would have no problem with AMD selling, for example, a Ryzen 2450G as a new part in 2022 that is just a Zen1 APU with some mildly increased compatibility with memory and slightly higher speeds than the old 2400G, for, say, $60. I WOULD have issues if AMD were to sell such a chip as a Ryzen 7150G, even if it is the same $60 price point. Same goes for Intel, or anyone else.
Older designs are still viable for years after the new designs come out, and can be made cheaper, as the design costs are covered after a time and the manufacturing process has matured to reduce defects, so why not make use of them? However, don't misrepresent them as newer designs.
Yeah I'm typing this on a 5700u laptop, although I knew what I was getting. I use it for lower hardware intensive games but man I wish it had RDNA 2 over Vega!
that's why they put the year at the beginning, to cheat people with older cpu and making them look newer...
@@raptor1672 for RDNA you'd have to wait for 6800U instead. Both 5800u and 5700u are Vega based.
Well I have that laptop CPU and they perform well (as did the 4800u) and it was available early in 2021 before the 5600u/5800u was available. I doubt if your parents would have noticed the difference with the 5600u. The price was lower than I would have paid for a Zen3 one a few months later, which were in high demand. I do understand why you were disappointed though, it shows why marketing uses model numbers rather than CPU codenames.
As for 7000 series, using DDR5 or LPDDR5 means only Rembrandt can perhaps be rebadged; they may stay 6000 though as the new Dragon Range appears to be a lower TDP version of desktop chips, with Phoenix coming later in the year IIRC. Perhaps the marketing will create tiers differently and older cores won't just be +900 in future.
@@RobBCactive Yeah, my parents aren't gamers, so they'd not likely notice a difference. Still, it was annoying to think they were one thing and find out later they were older.
In terms of total CPU combinations, if I counted right then it's 3 x 7 x 5 x 2 x 5 = 1050. That's a lot of CPU names to store in Steve's brain.
"The whole wheel is spinning!"
I'm dead. I just can't 😂
Remember the B550A motherboard AMD made for OEMs that was literally just a B450, but with a 5 as the first digit so OEMs could market it as new? This is the exact same BS. AMD has been doing this for years on laptop CPUs for the OEMs to market them as newer CPUs. It’s all solely for competitive advertising purposes.
Do you want a Ryzen Series One X? Because this is how you get a Series One X, Lana.
At least they stopped putting different voltages on the same CPU architecture which resulted in a few blown up (if I remember correctly) K6-2 processors.
Yep. This is complete BS, and a whole bunch of regular consumers will be burned by this, mark my words.
The 5700u is a 4800u zen2 part with an updated name in order to make it seem like it's Zen3. I think that's much worse than renaming a chipset.
To add to this: Sometimes chip makers are beat up by their customers into offering 'new' model numbers. That's everything from big box buyers to PC makers. Consumers often ONLY look at model numbers and stores and OEMs know this so they beat up Nvidia, Intel and AMD to make 'new' versions of the old chips because consumers want the new model. So yes, the naming isn't honest for enthusiasts--but in the price conscious areas where the shopper is often behind on the curve on information, the new models work. Just want to point this out from people who may not understand the dynamics at work. Stores, PC makers and chip makers are in the business of making money--and that doesn't always means having to have 'honest' model numbers displayed. Ultimately when you get that text message from your family or friend who wants to know 'which one is good' take a moment to help decode it for them.
You lost me at "now we are on the same page."
PERFECT
Could AMD possibly make a digital version of the wheel...?
they should've.... 😅
oh that would take them ages... let them first fix the 6y old fTPM bug which causes stuttering.
No, real code wheel only because it can be put into the new AMD cereal box. It has marshmallows.
@@PrefoX fTPM fixed in recent AGESA.
This video is pure "drunk friends in a bar arguing over semantics but actually agreeing on every point" energy and absolute art.
imagine how drunk AMD must have been then
This just feels like a convoluted way to hide that they're selling old stock and they don't want you to know what you're getting.
More like new stock that failed tests for new stock but managed to pass the tests for older generation stuff.
The way I see it, the issue is that there are two very different classes of consumer that want to buy the newest chip. There are those who've heard terms like Zen3 and know they want the latest design, and there are those who want it because newer = better. For the latter case, it honestly doesn't matter whether they rename old stuff. As long as the model numbers reflect general overall performance, it's doing exactly what it needs to, and the age of the architecture doesn't actually matter. Those consumers don't know they're getting old stock, but they didn't know what they were getting in the first place. Then for the people who actually know what they want, the nomenclature discussed here does still tell you what the chip is. I don't consider this deceptive.
The only part that's objectionable is the year prefix, since as discussed in the video it's meaningless marketing that violates the principle of the model number reflecting performance. That definitely should not be there.
@@erkinalp That would only work out if the architecture does not change between new and old stock. Otherwise your new stock that does not meet the requirements of the new stock (please explain how that should work anyways, seems like simply made up out of desperation to make a point) would still not meet the requirements for old stock, becasue the architecture is different.
@@johnscaramis2515 For example, Zen 4 is a strict superset of Zen 1. If your chip fails to reliably process the instructions added after Zen 1, you fuse off Zen+/2/3/4 extensions and sell it as a Zen 1.
@@erkinalp That wouldn’t reflect other micro architecture changes though. ISA and process tech (voltage-frequency performance) isn’t the only difference between CPU generations. This manifests in metrics like IPC that change between Zen 2 and Zen 3, for example.
22:55 Working in device repair, I have had so many customers argue with me over me calling it an iPhone 10.
"No no, it's an X"
"Yes, X and 10 are the same device"
"No it's an X"
"It's Roman numeral X which means 10..."
Or some slight variation of this argument. It amazes me that people can't understand this.
I remember when AMD said they would fix the confusing naming for their laptop CPUs for zen3 and then they went ahead and started mixing zen2 and zen3 in the same 5000 series U models. So the 5700, 5500, and 5300 U models were all zen2 and the 5800, 5600, and 5400 Us were all zen3. But then all the H models were zen3. Who on earth is going to know that? Why can't they name the zen2 parts in a way that a normal human can recognise? When you need a chart or code wheels to know what you're buying something has gone amiss.
See my response above but the TLDR is for profit companies are in business to profit. And often times stores and PC OEMs twist their arms to rebrand to sell to the average consumer.
The only excuse for this naming setup for old cores is if they're made on a new node as years go forward. So they're somewhat different in power characteristics if not performance. It could matter. But selling zen 1 cores just shouldn't make any economical sense at some point so this naming shouldn't be a real solution to any real problem.
Gloflo 12nm is a hell of a lot cheaper than TSMC 7, 6, or lower. The reality is that a 3400g (Zen 1+ on 12nm) is still a very capable processor for a general office machine.
@@egalanos honestly a Q6600 is still mostly fine for office work (I use one as my garage PC), but if you're buying a brand new computer i would expect it to come with a brand new chip with brand new microarchitecture.
Usually the 2 generation old computers from Dell are at a HUGE discount, naming products in this manner just makes it so that they can essentially sell Ryzen 3000 chips for brand new PC prices
@@egalanos yes for now. But if intel was still making i5-4590k it wouldn't make sense to anybody. Just buy a current pentium or an i3... There's always a point where it doesn't make sense anymore.
You can still use that CPU perfectly if you have it, but buying one new in box is ridiculous.
@@BlackhatAudio it costs something to produce you know. They can't just give them away like 1gb usb drives
Maybe they have a contract with tsmc of a number of parts that need to be produced on each node
I wish Intel would put that tool out.. and include the actual CPU name on it.. like all the Lake/Creek/Valley stuff, and a few animals and colors.. "ok, so the next gen i9 will be called.. Red Tiger Valley.."
love how Steve can hardly even look at Gordon without cracking up 😅 Gordon does seem to be a very funny guy
Someone needs to take all the options from that "decoder" and put it into a web page with a randomize function. Would be fun to see just how ridiculous it can get when it's truly random.
The weird thing to me about product naming is that it feels like nobody has, at any point, thought "you know... we might be making these products for more than just a one-year one and done... so maybe we should name our products in a way that is robust enough to be descriptive just in case we're in business for like 20+ years, so customers instantly know just by the model names whether a product is stronger or weaker than another."
I'm a one-man game developer and I spent a few weekends carefully thinking about my versioning methods (which is a little like product naming) and now I have a succinct, descriptive versioning scheme that literally anyone can understand, it's short, and it will last until my death with no room for confusion.
Big companies on the other hand act like they're going to die in 6 months and so they'll just use ALL OF THE NUMBERS now.
It reminds me of when people say "next gen" or "HD" it drives me insane. Next gen compared to WHAT? "High" definition compared to WHAT?
It'd be like if I released a new version of my game and called it "Next Version." Well, after it releases it will be Current Version. So now do I call the version after this Next Version too? "No no, your game is out of date. You have old Next Version. What you need is new Next Version."
Very silly naming scheme, you could have a 9520U which is way slower than a 7540U but the average consumer will assume it's faster cos the number is much bigger
Or just search up the cpu? Or read the description in the website where your buying that product. Only idiots do no research on what their buying
Are you telling me numbers no longer represent performance, Marty? But I'll be happy if we survive that Y2K bug people have been talking about.
What do you mean I totally understand the difference between the I7-1215eg00fu and i5-102560dynr
Is the l7 a new variant? Did they let us undervolt it compared to the i7?
I can't help but think the "decoding wheel" was a little "tongue in cheek" because of how blatant it is. Basically, them admitting subtly "yeah, we kind of got ourselves in a mess with the names", and willing to make a little fun of themselves.
Umm....no, they legitimately made it thinking it would help
@@samgoff5289 If it was made and given completely unironicly, then yeah, oof. Completely tone deaf
Though in my defense, I did say "a _little_ tongue in cheek", not completely or even mostly so.
yeah idk how any marketing professional could make this seriously
What I like is that the core gen is in the number, in mobile there was a problem of lower end parts being one gen behind but you wouldn't know that from only looking at the number
I'm absolutely against naming the old core as new ever since AMD did with mobile zen2 but AMD fanboys defend it regardless. These days it even leaked into desktop counterpart and worse of all, the igp part is killed. True, AMD wants to dump these leftovers but remember they are using DIY market to do that
It's a bad practice, the 3000 u ryzen should be called 1000 series and the h series 2000, the 4000 should be called 3000 and the 5700 be called 3850u or something like that (or 4850 if they really insist in using the 4000 series for zen 2).
However intel names are sometimes even more confusing. Why are the 1135G7 and 1165G7, both quad core CPUs with hyperthreading, called i5 and i7, if there's barely any performance difference? Why is the i5 10500h called i5 if it's almost literally the i7 10750h? Why is the 1035G7 also 10th gen if it's a completely different architecture than the 10210u? Why does the i5 1035G1 still use intel hd graphics, despite it sounding like it uses a weaker version of the iris xe? What the hell is a 1260P? Why are there only 4 digits now wtf, it sounds like it is a first gen intel core chip
In he end both companies need to fix their naming schemes but i do find myself more confused by the intel naming scheme than i do with AMD's
They also did it with the desktop APUs, with the 3x00G being Zen+, not Zen2.
I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy, but the naming part of their marketing department needs a random drug test.
It's not just AMD every company does this. Intel has done it for a decade which you conveniently ignored 🤦
Edit: which is what they said as well in this video "every grown up company has to do this" which also you somehow ignored
@@mparagames When it comes to mobile that's just how it is. They're marketed towards people from all walks of life so they won't really know what a Zen 3, Zen 2, or Alderlake are. So they just try to hit different price points with their older SKU's. Which may not be enough for you, but it might be absolutely plenty for your neighbors grandmother.
@@dondraper4438 well yeah but at the VERY least it wouldn't hurt to call the 5500u and the 5700u, 4650u asnd 4850u respectively. It would still state that it's better than the previous last gen chips, but not as good as the newer, flashier chips, but in a more fair manner.
Also, for the regular user, "1260p" is confusing. How are the gonna know it's better than the i5 10210u with a name like that? How hey are gonna know that 1035g7 is significantly better than it, if it's also labelled as 10th gen?
This naming scheme is for the OEMs. This way, they can just increment the leading digit and pretend that their warehouse of last year's models is brand new stock.
Pretty much, yeah.
Okay so where are the Intel Dice to decode their laptop numbers
Intro'd as not containing useful info, but ACTUALLY did! Thumbs up!
My guess would be that any older variants that are 'relaunched' would have something to distinguish them from the original launch like more cache or higher frequencies. I also wouldn't expect them to combine components from widely disparate eras. Just a wheel that includes the whole stack rather than indicating new will be launched for them all.
it's crazy the fact that many people are going to get a laptop with a new shiny Ryzen 7000 sticker and it can possibly turned out to be a Zen 1 cpu
This probably won’t happen. It is probably at worst 7000 with a zen 2+ since zen 1 cpu is probably out of production for a while now
@@sentryion3106 So it's ok that someone thinks they're getting a modern CPU, and are really getting a 3 year old rebrand?
@@dumbestbiscuit I never said it's OK, just said it wouldn't be that bad
@@dumbestbiscuit the numbers listed clearly what you'll get. This is actually much more transparent than previous scheme.
"7 for 2023...", fantastic, great job AMD. 👍🏻
actually that is a system that makes sense because the cross total equals 7 2+0+2+3 and 2024 equals 8 2+0+2+4
@@name-ic3vo works for now, but can wait until 2+0+3+0 = 5, or 2+0+3+2 = 7 😛 #guesswegonnaneedabiggernumberscheme
Hello Gordon and Steve, hope you are both well, rock on gentlemen
I want these Steve and Gordon videos to be forever
OK what AMD did here is basically the same as having a laser pointer in a room with a couple of cats. Genius.
Ah yes, more inside baseball with Gordon. I could watch this stuff all day lol
The fact that AMD actually made such a naming scheme wheel is insane :D.
For the first digit, think about the used market. There's a world of a difference when buying a 2 year old chromebook and a 7 year old chromebook, even though they might both be Pentiums. If they were the exact same architecture underneath and you weren't familiar with the specific model case differences, you would have nothing else to tell you one was 3 times as old as the other. The 7 year old one probably has a much more faded screen, a dustier fan, and a battery that would be dead.
Inb4 we're gunna have to start decoding processors and chipsets like VIN numbers on a car
I think the year mostly signifies to generation, which in turn does often have an impact on IO die, connectivity and graphics (best example is steam deck, it's a current gen chip with DDR5 and RDNA2, while having Zen 2 cores, which is different from a normal 4 Core Zen 2 APU, which normally would have Vega and DDR4).
The videos featuring this guy are interesting, but most of all ENTERTAINING. Steve seems to have so much fun talking with Gordon that is just fun to watch. Hope you manage to get him more often so we can get a Steve n' Gordon episode every 3 months or so.
THIS need to be a Weekly Show.
The most Iconic Tech Duo
Looks like I'll need to get my hands on one of those decoder rings 😂😂
The decoder wheel is a way to know how AMD codes the cpu name. Which is why the wheel would have opotions that would not exist. I did enjoy the humor of the video though, especially the year release/ actual release part
ya, they are encoding in the video, not decoding, but it was a good laugh.
Hahaha, could not imagine two people better than the two of you for this sort of video. xD
Great vid, good to see Steve and Gordon again
i cant wait for the new amd cpu benchmarks
Same!
@@GamersNexus Me too! :D
If you decode the entire lineup, it tells you to "Drink More Ovaltine"
Gordon Mah Ung is one my fav OG PC people. I remember his days at Maximum PC and Boot magazine! Man I'm old.
This was significantly more fascinating than I expected it to be! xD
To answer the question you posed near the end, Steve... I think it snapshots in time what generation the product you're buying was in at its launch... If I'm looking at two chromebooks and one is a Ryzen 9430e and the other is a Ryzen 8430e: as an informed consumer, I know the CPU's are the same between these two, but likely the other components w/ the 9430e *could* be newer
It seems shady to do it this way... those that follow computer hardware just a little bit will feel like AMD is pulling a fast one.
Hello, Gordon!
funny and informative as always; I think its crystal clear in comparison with the other world events ...
Gordon was the best part of the old Maximum PC podcast.
With amd keeping am4 as the "budget" option to am5, are they going to release new CPUs on the platform or they are just going to keep manufacturing existing zen3 parts alongside zen4 parts?
They're doing a Zen3+ Ryzen6000 as the final hurrah for DDR4 to go alongside Ryzen7000 for DDR5. It was listed on their roadmap a couple of months ago. 👍
@@MafiaboysWorld sweet, i guess my 2600x it's going to have to hold a little more before i upgrade on am4, thanks!
@@MafiaboysWorld finally i can save up for preparing upgrade to 6000 series
Please remember that the chiplets are the same for Ryzen, TR and EPYC. And AMD has delivery contracts for TR and EPYC, so they are obliged to produce zen3. So it could be that they release new Zen3 products (or newly produced Zen3), if their production is above the required numbers for EPYC.
It could even be possible for them, if required, to bring Zen3 to AM5. The chiplets are linked by the IF to the IO-Die, so as long as they did not make huge changes this could be an option.
@@johnscaramis2515 No, they already said during the roadmap speech that they aren't doing Zen3+ on AM5, that's reserved for Zen4 and on.
Sounds to me like the year shouldn't be the first digit as it has the lowest impact on performance.
Just an easy way to increase the number: Bigger = better. Imagine if they did it to desktop. For example, the RX 6700 XT which released the next calendar year after the 6800XT becomes something like RX 7725. 6800XT's new name would be RX 6825.
@@mag3slay4 Deceptive. I do think the year is important but it should be farther down the line. The first number should be the core generation.
@@davidwiley4953 If it's further down the line it won't feel as important. I'm not buying a Ryzen Zen 1 1XXX today, no way, when there are Ryzen 6XXX out. But if that 1XXX is 6XYZ, and costs 1/2 of the 6XXX model, I'll jump to the conclusion that it's pretty decent. Like they said in the video, everything hinges on faith that they won't launch an outdated Zen 1 processor today.
@@mag3slay4 Oh I get what you're saying. The manufacturer wants it that way but it's not what the consumer deserves.
The young person struggling with boxes in the background is very relatable.
I look forward to seeing this thinging hanging in the background of the GN set.
When you need a "Secret Decoder Ring" that came in the AMD Cereal box to know what it is you bought something might be wrong. Intel, take notes because you're not far behind .....Cheers! Stay Healthy and Stay Sane!
It’s so obvious that this is just to mislead consumers and satisfy OEMs who demand yearly revisions. Everyone assumes the first digit denotes a generation of products.
There is just somthing about the Steve x Gordon linkup that makes for god tier content whatever the subject
I think it could have been a simpler explanation to relate the years aspect to how car companies launch their model years a bit before the actual calendar year starts. At least to me, thinking about it in that it is their main series for that year, even if it doesn't debut in that year, makes sense.
I have last seen such a decoding wheel in the early 90‘s 😂 had one with my monkey island copy for Amiga 500.
Dial a pirate, matey!
Considering the other companies naming schemes, its hard to fault AMD especially since they are not the market leader. Intel still has the most share and tells consumers less info and to buy it because it has the Intel sticker on it which many consumers still do.
@@BlackhatAudio So does AMD
@@BlackhatAudio exactly
@@BlackhatAudio Both companies publish the specs, thanks, I'm glad you agree. I'm sure most consumers are enthusiasts who look up the specs online before buying a computer. Oh wait, no they aren't.
Most consumers are idiots when it comes to hardware and look for logos like the intel inside. Why do they do that? Because Intel tells people to look for the stickers rather than look up the specifications of the product. Market leader obfuscating the truth, or is the sticker some kind of decoder ring sending the info to the consumer telepathically?
If that marketing b.s. from the market leader is ok why fault competitors, or are you saying they should be held at a different standard than the market leader?
@@BlackhatAudio Never said I had problems, but while we are doing assumptions guess you didn't watch the video which is all about laptop parts not diy builders. I'm sorry your commenting on a video you didn't watch.
DIY builders couldn't care less about naming schemes for parts, as we both agree they can look up the specs, so this video doesn't pertain to them at all. Or are you saying the majority of the market build their own laptops? Laptops and prebuilt desktops are sold based on branding, not specs which is promoted by market leaders like, you guessed it, Intel. But if you don't think Intel has any say in this, please explain your analysis on their impotency.
@@BlackhatAudio ditto
Best GN video of the year. Coke literally shot out of my nose!
I first discovered Gordon during his MaximumPC magazine days. I quickly discovered he was the most knowledgeable voice in the magazine. Great guy.
The Apple M2 is always faster than the M1. However, the M2 is not faster than the M1 Pro, M1 Max, or M1 Ultra. I prefer "Pro/Max/Ultra" suffixes over Intel's "U/P/H" suffixes.
But those still make no sense, "Pro" implies professional use but has just come to mean "more powerful", "Max" implies, well, the maximum but here it's in the middle - plus Max is being used in phones to denote larger physical size. Ultra is the only one that actually fits but to me ultra and max imply the same thing. It just smells of "we use words instead of letters/numbers since we want to dumb it down for out customers" but then they just misuse those words.
I really hope this will not be implemented. The naming Code is kinda evil for consumers
I love watching Tech Buddha and Tech Jesus having a conversation.
Maybe I missed it but is there a version of that naming wheel publicly available on the web somewhere?
Intel is doing the same. Not all 13000 series CPUs will be the new microarchitecture. The lower end CPUs will be the same as the current 12000 series.
AMD fanbois always like but but Intel does it too
@@Freestyle80 If anything, I've been an Intel fanboy since the Core 2 CPUs. Both AMD and Intel are a clusterf**k of SKUs and names. Use your brain.
Do the red, yellow, and orange lines on the decoder ring come into play? Where the lines all have to line up or something to limit the combinations to realistic ones?
I would bet this decoder was created with the intent of decoding released processors vs predicting new ones.
The entries showing future products probably are there to make this decoder functional beyond the current scope and matching it to their planned release schedule. This might not be the case but it seems like it makes more sense.
"Making it difficult for consumers to understand" ---- DING DING DING we have a winner!
as a former blueshirt myself, I would have killed for something like this when I worked there. having to explain to people that the i7 7xxx was faster than an i3 8xxx was the bane of my existence
Thanks for your service! :D There are really not enough people that have some knowledge about what they're selling; I've heard some ridiculous stuff from staff.
You guys are awesome you should much more videos together..
Watching Steve and Gordon do videos together is like PB&J. So damn good. Always laugh my butt off. Rant AWAY, good Sirs.
What I don't get is the later "market segment" number. Isn't that what Ryzen 3,5,7,9 are for?
What are the coloured lines on the wheels for?
Is it possible you have to align the colours to get the real chip combinations? Or do they have another use?
The best part of this is most people will have no idea. Those in the know will have to use a decoder like VIN codes on vehicles to check what they're getting
I was critical of the first video of this set. Now I'm hooked. You and Gordon are my new favorite pair.
This discussion made me really appreciate the wifi standard naming change from a bunch of numbers to 'Wifi __' with the number going up every iteration. So simple. So easy.
Steven and this guy are like lamb and tuna fish amazing love this
Makes perfect sense as long as you have the star chart decoder ring.
It would make sense if first number is the manufacturing note since they usually order bulk of those CPUs with same manufacture. Usually even when it isn't same architecture it has been same manufacturing for the CPUs with the specific number (all 6000 series being 6 nm)
If I were AMD I would just keep the desktop nomenclature, stick an "M" at the beginning to denote a mobile part. Or, do the following:
(M) - Mobile
7 - Generation
6 - core count
4 - TDP variant (10 watt increment)
0 - TDP variant (5 watt increment)
(E)(W)(X) - Optional to denote a performance oriented, workstation part or embedded
for TDP variants, the 10-watt increment would be as follows;
0 - Embedded or ultra-low power (sub 10 watts)
1 - Low power (
The core notation doesn't scale with 20+ cores though. But yeah, something along those lines, especially a simple M pre- or suffix is what I think would be great, keeping the rest in sync with the desktop parts.
Then you'd have an R5 5600X for desktop and the mobile equivalent would be the R5 5600M or 5600MH, or perhaps R5M 5600(H). Both would be 5th generation (well, already not true, but you get the point), Zen3. Simple.
If they want to sell an older architecture, they can release an improved R5 3600M as R5 3610M for example, improvement as in higher clocks due to matured production. Or when they do a Zen2+ refresh, it could be R5 3600M+ as well. It would be easy and as the old CPU would be cheaper and used in more budget-focused systems, that shouldn't be a problem, a consumer should know he's making sacrifices when buying something cheap, so you don't need to have the latest and greatest, just something decent.
@@dennisjungbauer4467 > Absolutely this
no need for a wordle and a decode wheel to find out what SKU is from which segment. :)
Great video I am still confused, Gordon has the classic watch on one arm and the tech watch on the other.
Gordon's Star Trek chirp ringer pervades all.
Can I buy this wheel somewhere? I've had enough trouble explaining the relatively simple desktop naming scheme before.
This wheel is like when a parent gives something to a kid to distract them.
So good to see this channel leak over 1000 as yet unseen CPUs in such a concise manner
Looking forward to see how they make a ryzen 9 gen 1 chip that operates at a low tdp
Going to make an individual reddit thread about gamers nexus confirming each of these CPU
This looks like me many years ago, Trying to decode the password for whatever Amiga game I was playing with a decoding wheel.
“This video contains no useful information”
Ok Steve, now you’ve got my attention.
I have a friend who is addicted to drugs. They have never said anything as crazy as this naming scheme.
Crazy how Steve and I both looked to the same place at 11:00
It looks like one of those piracy protection wheels that came in computer games back in the '90s.
Is the code wheel you have in hand there the copy protection for the new Return to Monkey Island game? ;-)
11:04 ayyyy.....nice pickup line