Functional Threshold Power: Does It Really Matter? | GCN Does Science
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 12. 09. 2024
- We've brought in our favourite Genie-us, Professor Louis Passfield, to find out whether functional threshold power, FTP, is actually relevant in determining your fitness.
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Does your FTP only tell you how strong you are for an hour? Or is it still a useful indicator of your overall fitness? Louis Passfield put Si and Blake from GMBN through their paces to find out what their FTP can tell us about their ability, and whether it's lacking at all as a training tool.
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Watching Si and Blake smiling and laughing at each others suffering is the best.
GCN has been my favorite channel in CZcams when it comes to cycling.. I've started riding and touring and the videos have been very helpful in planning these.. Recently I've done a 100 km ride in about 4 hrs.. Big deal for me coj I only used to cycle to my work place.. Now it has grown to be a passion.. Great work with this video as well.. Cheers.. Keep inspiring for a healthier world through cycling..
Great work, good to hear!
Global Cycling Network best wishes from India.. đ
This was one of your best videos. Well Done !!
Thanks Neil đ
I do agree!
also if Blake has never done an FTP test before, his FTP score could actually rise significantly just by learning how to do the test better, or better pacing
Chris Capoccia I was thinking the same regarding the intervals.
Blake hasn't done any training of that fashion before, whereas it's a fair bet that it's Si's bread and butter. A lot of it is about practicing and knowing what that 30 seconds should feel like if you wanna be dead by the end of the third one.
I reckon ot would have balanced out just fine if Blake had more training experience.
Ya if he trains endurance and long tempo. He might hit 300s
First time is not the best time
Yeah that absolutely how it worked in rowing. You could expect like a 20-30% improvement from your first to second test.
All the points here are, I guess, why ftp doesn't matter as much as we think... Why would you want to cheat for a better ftp? Obviously, if the guy was more conditioned to pro tour fitness, he would do better, but why would you want to have a slick nice prepared ftp vs a pure blind tested ftp rating.. If a liar knew the tricks of passing a lie detector test, and they pass it,.. he is still a liar, right?
We need more Blake and Si. A bit like cycling's odd couple, but it just works.
Blake was an awesome choice, he's great.
Awesome video guys, I feel better now because my ftp isn't very high but my sprint power is decent.
Thanks Evan!
Love Blakey! I'm getting in to GCN from GMBN while training for a couple of long road rides. Both channels are informative and motivating. Nice to see the collaborations.
This is one of the best GCN videos I've ever seen! I've not laughed so much at someone's agony as I have today. Sorry guys, but it was great! No pain no (marginal) gains!
Great stuff Carlos! Thanks for watching!
As a hardcore DH mtbker this training stuff seemed pointless...until I did an endurance mtb race and my lungs almost went out through my noseđ I already followed GMBN so I gave this sister channel a try. I donÂŽt regret it at all. You guys give a lot of very interesting nutrition/training tips that can be applied across all cycling disciplines. Just by following these I was able to finish the next endurance mtb race in top shape and even smoked some of the guys that left me behind in the previous one, but, above all, I finished feeling more happier and healthier than ever before. Keep it up guys!!!
Great to hear! If it's training and nutrition tips you're after, you might enjoy some videos on our dedicated "GCN Training" Channel!
czcams.com/users/GCNTraining
Louis Passfield is the bike sciences own Hawkins! Great clip GCN!
Nice to see Blake on GCN for once! More of this please. We need GCN vs. GMBN vs. GTN soon
Great idea!
Great video! This is basically the tenet behind 4DP used in the Sufferfest app. They do a similar power test the yields 4 results then assign a rider profile based on the results. Thereâs corresponding training prescribed to develop either your strengths or your weaknesses.
@David McQuillen is that correct ? Didn't realise that
Blake is a damn machine, he almost broke that bike in half during the sprint.
1450 watts, that's very nearly the sustained limit of most electrical circuits in the US. :P
One of the very best GCN videos I have ever seen, informative and fun without being silly.
I have a powermeter because it helps me to keep tracks of my improvements but I don't use FTP as a training value anymore. I use heart rate as runners do to do tempo, sweetspot or threshold sessions (great video of Jack Daniels about threshold).
The only test I do is the MAP test (maximum aerobic power) every 4weeks block. Starts at 100watts and then increase every 2min 30watts until you colapse. For exemple, mine is 410watts and my maxHR is 182. It is more or less the same as the Vo2max test but from my point of view more accurate. I use this value to do 30"/30" or 1'/1'. But for the 2x20min I stay at 90% of my maxHR and I check my power but I don't target a power number. For swetspot max 85% and tempo 80% of maxHR. I use to training with 20min test value * 0.95 and...very fatigue and not great results cause my FTP was overestimated and thus the workouts were to high in intensity. Since I work with HR for long intervals I have better improvements and less fatigue over time. Your heart rate is the reflexion of your fatigue. Your HR is more accurate to reflect your current threshold. In my opinion the FTP value is not useful at all and its calculation 0.95 of max 20min test is not accurate. Just ride at max 88% or 90% of maxHR and you'll feel your threshold. Do what runners do and transpose it to cycling. I do gandfondos and train like a marathonian. If you do crits train like a half marathonian or a 10km runner. Less time and better results. 4X4weeks blocks before your primary event of the year. Mine is the 8 july for "L'Ă©tape du tour" I feel great and building my fitness without fatigue.
PS : regards from France. My english is terrible
Walter,
Simon, that level of suffering on the 20min is worthy of a Wattage Bazooka!
We haven't had wattage bazooka's for a few months, have we? I only just noticed!
I think most FTP tests are around 20 min or less ; I don't know where the one hour comes from. that value would be 10 to 20% lower and often the VO2 is measured as well so the snorkel and lactate lancet distractions might take off 5 to 10 %. In the big picture you would have to measure consistently (sprint first then FTP) over standard intervals to have an idea if the training regimen is effective. hard to do if you are an actual racer on the road. But for everyone else, sure book an FTP and VO2 max test , maybe summer and spring, you'll have a great time.
@@MDonovan 20 minutes is a common test, because for most (but not all) 95 % of 20 minutes is accurate enough, while also doable in practise. It's a practical solution, not a theoretically optimal one. Lactate measures doesn't impact output at all in my experience. Just a pinprick. The VO2 mask I've used is open, and completely unnoticable when approaching pain zone. Possibly those where you have to bite might impact a little bit, but really, the exertion hurts most regardless. ("Approximately one hour" comes from the definition of FTP, as most athletes can work at threshold for about an hour.)
Hey GCN, I just met the professor at the MEC store in Calgary, Canada. I stopped by him to say hi and he was a bit surprised to be recognized here. He even said that this was the first time someone identified him because of GCN đ Great guy to talk with.
I'm new to the power meter game and have just started training with FTP, watching this video has helped me understand what I am trying to achieve. Looks like what I am doing is OK which is reassuring as it is bloody confusing otherwise! Keep up the great work Si.
Thanks Harry for watching!
I never commented before, but Louis should be a regular on your show. Very good answers given in a way that was easy to understand. He really added a nice touch and the chemistry between Simon and Louis as presenters was really good!
I can tell you, one thing I find the best channels to watch are where there is a bit of good natured banter between the hosts. Yours is no exception! :)
It would have been nice to see Emma's results. Also boys' weight would be nice to know, because that FTP difference is even bigger when considering that Blake weights, what, 20 kg more than Si. That's lots more watts per kilo for Si.
This is a fantastic video!
Glad you enjoyed it Jan!
I'd put money on Blake having a higher FTP. Those tests take some skill to perform well, knowing how hard to go, ramp up, down or steady are all things you can only learn after doing a good few of them. Also, this will throw the numbers off for the tests after. Si was spent after his FTP because he knows how to put that max 20min effort out, whereas Blake looked tired but definitely not as much as Si so had more in the tank. This would mean Si would have his edge knocked off for the following tests but Blake wouldn't so much. Interesting test but not exactly groundbreaking, a sprinter needs to work on endurance and a climber on their sprint, who knew ;) Saying all that, one of the best GCN vids for a while :)
it is an interesting conundrum who can be a better all rounder...like Sagan vs Martin, Cancellara and Wiggins show the disadvantage a strong sprinter has unless he has the best team to take him to the line, I think Sagan and Gilbert are classic all rounders now they really have to work hard (training) to get the win and age is a factor too
Great stuff, thank you to Si, Louis, Blake and production team. Looks like it was filmed in some kind of Russian Gulag đ. Thanks Blake for coming over to the dark side and participating. What I found most interesting is that Blake could be in such fine form for sprinting and very acceptable FTP and yet he had never tested before. Therefore he just arrived at this point from riding his bike and doing what he loves to do, cycling. I'm a great one for numbers and love the scientific approach, but I think this demonstrates that you should just get on your bike and ride it, regardless. Enjoy cycling! I raced an 80km mountain bike race yesterday with 1900m of vertical ascent and decided to switch power off, simply concentrating on cadence between 70-80rpm climbing and as close to 90rpm everywhere else. I just drove the biggest gear I could whilst maintaining that cadence. I don't think I could have done any better riding to power, I just went as hard as I could, all the time (heavily supplemented by SIS đ). 37C at one point, I can confirm that their isotonic drink works! Ride on, Tim
Cheers Tim for watching! Sounds like an awesome race!
They are not happy here unless you need an oxygen tent by half way 'round. I think they feel they are letting you down if you're not close to death: www.strava.com/activities/1614718906 If it ain't on Strava, it never happened. My legs know it happened today. Ride on! Tim
Making great videos day after day is a big challenge. But thereâs still so much to talk and discus about, that you can go on for ages. I love the tech stuff and I love it when you bring on the experts. Thanks for the inspiration and keep up the good workđ
Thanks Har VĂ©lo, glad you find it as interesting as us!
This is great! I am more of a "Mr Fast Twitch" type rider and over the years I sort of accidentally discovered longer easier efforts tend to do more for me than shorter intervals... So neat to hear my "anecdotal" experience corroborated.
This is the best GCN video you guys have ever done!! Please do more videos like this. Really great stuff and explains a lot, even among guys in my own team!!
Thanks John, great to hear you enjoyed the video!
Excellent video! Just completed the TOC at 80% of FTP for the 3:30 to complete the 80 mile course. Nothing left in the tank at the end! Following the numbers really helped by having a strategy to prevent burning all matches too early!
I really think Blake could have smashed that sprint test if he'd been on the drops. He did really well but could have boosted GMBN's image more!
"Why are ur bars not 700mm wide?? and what in the world are those curvy thingies at the ends?"
Fernando Roman the Enduro market these days would make you think 700mm is basically a flat bar road bike.
Great video!
My thoughts are that in order to win a race, you have to be able to finish a race. The ability to sprint isn't going to help me much if I can't stay with the pack or if I'm just too tired at the end of the race to put in that effort needed for a sprint. Targeted FTP training has really helped me and I find it to be a great tool.
My week is a combination of HIIT (usually by chasing some local segments), SST (most often done on my trainer using erg mode), an easy endurance ride (the long Sunday ride where I can relax and enjoy the scenery and reap the benefits gained from the harder mid-week sessions), and rest. Then sticking in that tough FTP test about every 6 weeks just to make sure I'm on the right track.
Hey James, sounds like you have your training pretty sorted!
Lactate threshold would be better than FTP at setting a benchmark for your training in edurance sports. But it's hard to do a Lactate test (minimal lab requirements). The FTP test is real simple to do and you can repeat at any time - so this is why most of us use it - and with the right adaptations it can help you set that benchmark just as well.
Now:
With the max sprint power (around 6'') you get the start point of your power curve;
I also like the 30'' max and the 4' max. Those will give you an even better knowledge of your body's response.
With these points (max, 30'', 4', 20', and ftp - the 95% of the 20') you can draw your power curve to some accuracy.
Then you'll know what sort of training you should be doing for your primal objective (and this is where the fun starts and training theory gets crazy).
I come from a running background. There are some fascinating studies done comparing aerobic and anaerobic contribution to races of varying lengths. And once you get beyond 100 meters in distance, the "fuel" for every race is primarily aerobic. Obviously, the greater the distance, the greater the percentage of aerobic contribution.
But the idea is that, even for a 200M runner, aerobic ability is important, and probably the main differentiating factor between runners. This is true even though this is through of by many as a primarily non-aerobic event. By the time you get to 400M, it's almost all aerobic, with very little anaerobic contribution. The take away for me...is that, in running (and cycling), lactate threshold (FTP) is an important and relevant number and a very relevant estimate of fitness for all athletes -- and a good measure to structure training around. But, perhaps, at the margins, the anaerobic contributions can be a difference maker in races, provided that the anaerobic training doesn't sabotage the foundational development of aerobic capacity.
Excellent video here GCN. I had the privilege of being a subject in Louis and Juan's training study at the University of Calgary last year. A great experience but man did they make us work hard in those tests!! Louis is a great guy and so intelligent. The cycling world is fortunate to have him studying the exercise physiology of cyclists.
These analyses closely resemble The Sufferfest 4DP power profile with five second neuromuscular power, one minute anaerobic capacity, five minute maximal aerobic power and 20 minute FTP. Sufferfest stopped using a standard 20 minute FTP test last year for the same reasons that Si illustrated, that it doesn't adequately reflect a rider's strengths and weaknesses.
The Sufferfest do a really great job of this sort of testing. The 'Full Frontal' test (5s, 5m, 20m, 1m) will identify your rider type and then match you to a training plan that addresses the cycling weaknesses that the test exposed. It would be a great GCN video to do the testing and then follow a few workouts - we love the suffering :)
At the beginning of 2018, i switched from TrainerRoad to Sufferfest and immediately had to take one of their 4DP tests. I trained for six months using these 4 new numbers for my targets and noticed a massive increase. I went to a race in May and knocked hours of my previous times. The benefit of having a 4DP profile is that workout targets then become much more precise and useful. How about doing a review on Sufferfest and the people behind it?
Completely fascinated by this video and all the expert advice given, this is truly superb stuff from GCN/GMBN!
Thanks Sam!
These videos are so well done
AWESOME MOTIVATION...đ Iâm 57 now and cranking up training again...in a sprint 17 years ago did 1200watts so Iâm a little proud of me...but Iâm at maybe 25% of the training capacity that Iâve had at 40...
So plans are for 50%...
Thanks so much for all the input and motivation.
Great video once again with Dr Passfield. Very reassuring that not all training for each rider has to be the same and also very reassuring that each riders physiology is different and so what you can do in training and what you may need to work on is also very different. I guess that it means that we don't have to worry about just one number any more as we are all kind of complex and looking at the issue of getting the best out of us as an individual is also a more complex issue and it would appear that the more the reasearch is done on things then the more cloudy the picture is but also how it does give more variety for riders. Which is good, the thing which seems to come across is not so much to worry about numbers and power but more worry about what you would like to be do, such as sprints or climbs or long powerful efforts (such as a TT) and then try and tailor your training to replicate the sort of effort that you would experience in this sort of situation so that you body can adapt and be able to cope with these sorts of situations. Does seems like a case very much of listening to your body when your training and finding what you can cope with and how you improve things. Really love having more of Dr Passfield on the show and its always really interesting to hear what he is up to and the research there doing. Oh boy Si that was one sufferfest that you had going on there with the testing... such an inviting place to suffer... in the basementđ»!! Cheers guys and keep the great videos coming!
Great video. Very interesting exercise physiology. Iâve been using the 4DP (4 dimensional) power approach from The Sufferfest since January (measures 5s, 1 min, 5 min and 20 min power). Helps me figure out what kind of workouts will improve my weaknesses *and* strengths. Serious power and endurance improvements since Jan for this 51 year old!!
#GCN what Iâm taking away from this video is that I need solid endurance (ftp) but also need to identify my strengths and develop them. I have found a great 3 minute 11% grade climb that I lap over about 4 times. Itâs increased my recovery time and all segments are getting faster. Based on this video I feel Iâm trading properly. Thank you!
A power duration curve will show you your maximum efforts across all rides for 5s, 15s, 1m, 5m 20m, 1h etc. You can use this as the basis for your intervals and you never need to guess interval's effort (e.g. 1.2 x FTP). Strava, TrainingPeaks etc. will show you this report (Though may cost $$$)
...and that's why The Sufferfest uses 4 metrics to set power targets in our workouts instead of a simple % of FTP. #FourDoesMore.
Take away: Elite indoor trainers require a 70kg anchor in order to handle 1400+ watts.
Captain Doughnutman 60kg when wet ....
Louis is the best.
He really knows his stuff!
Brilliant! I can't even say how much I enjoyed this video! Suffering-smiles-numbers... all the best parts of cycling.
Really love the crossovers between GCN/GMBN/GTN/EMBN!
Glad you enjoyed the video Gary!
I think there should be GCN V.S. GMBN challenge where two GCN presenters go up against two GMBN presenters in a Crit and road race. Then compare the results.
Crit and then a MTB Race
Needs a series of vids: road race, crit, CX, XC, enduro, DH.
you want 2 MTB guys to race 2 roadies in a crit and road race? seems fair.. lol
Sounds good to me. I think the majority of GCN reporters have all raced mtb at the elite pro level. But maybe only The Don from GMBN had raced road or even has a road bike. Run it like a stage race - a road crit, a dirt crit, a road race an XCO race, a road climb tt a dirt climb tt and then a road downhill and a mtb downhill. What do you think GCN GMBN?
Flat road,so si pushing 350watts Blake is drafting (30% saving) both at FTP. So it's kind of even. But if si went long he wins. If si accelerated out of corners 550vs500 he's won. If any sort of hill is involved Blake's weight+ weight of pecks/power Vs si's skinny frame/power si wins. Descent or sprint money's on Blake.
I do a little heart rate based training, but mostly perceived exertion (RPE) and this seemed fairly obvious to me. FTP is a great data point to know what power you can sustain for an hour, but so many rides fall into times and efforts that aren't "sustain for one hour" like gran fondos and sprints/shorter time trials. Blake and Dr. Louis Passfield were FANTASTIC guests to have on this episode and this is was a high quality video. Thanks, GCN!
Thanks Chasing Chinster, glad you enjoyed the video.
One of the best video I have watched on GCN. Super informative, very scientific knowledge from an expert, and even better the fact that it strays away from the "typical knowledge" that some of us already knew... aka introduced new ideas/concepts.
love it. Keep up the good work
It's Blake and Si! Two of my favorite presenters!
Good stuff. As a 92 kg rider FTP is that middle ground for training -- between endurance and max efforts (like climbing/sprinting). Improving my FTP pushes that middle ground upwards. So for me, the FTP number is a useful gauge.
Great video! Blake and my numbers are VERY similar (fast twitch guy with pecks here), but I only weigh 65 kg and am 40 years old. This exactly explains why training sessions this winter based on FTP on Zwift were so variable. The intervals (the 30 sec bit at the end) were always relatively easy but the longer sustained efforts were harder. I think itâs time next winter to do the 4DP on Sufferfest and other âsmarterâ training software and leave Zwift for my endurance and fun rides.
This is one of the most informative videos Iâve see now anywhere!! Thank you, GCN!
That's great to hear! Thanks for watching
Outstanding, Si. Outstanding. Very interesting indeed, nice one, lads.
Excellent.
Cheers Michael! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Always nice to have Prof Louis on, his explanation on scientific stuff is easy to translate and understand.
Thank you to Prof Passfield and thank you also to Si and Blake for this most excellent video for sure. It is one of the best I have ever seen because it is fascinating and carefully made and I've never seen such a concise and well done cycling physio video. It's in my short list of favorites ever.
FTP accounts for >90% of the variation between individuals in performance power at any duration between 5 min and ~4 h. Even at durations as short as 3 min or as long as 6 h, it accounts for >80%.
That said, I developed the power profiling tables (based on power over 5 s, 1 min, 5 min, as well as FTP) back in 2003 or so for a reason.
If this was a 45 minute race between Blake and Simon, and Simon puts 300 Watts for the 45 minutes and Blake puts 200 Watts for 45 minutes, at the final lap Simon would be so far ahead that Blake sprint power would not make a difference. Consistent power is what we cycles should be training for, is good to have a decent sprinting power, but if you donât have enough to keep up during the race then whatâs the point really
Depends - with the decreased required effort from drafting, it might work out in the wash. As a racer you need both, because it's unlikely you'll end up at the finish line alone and so need to be able to out sprint your competition after a long hard ride.
well, if Blake is able to hang on Si's backheel for the first 45minutes the fate might turn already :P according to several studies sucking up the slipstream at peloton speed saves between 30-45%. which might be more than enough to close the gap regarding threshold power. Then Blake would bulldoze Si on the last round without any chance :D
@@geisslersonMC thatâs basically how flat stages in GTs turn out. And why in mountain stages where riders are required to consistently put out high power/weight to contend the difference in GC ranking is made.
Professor Passfield is a joy to listen to. And thanks to you all at GCN for questioning and explaining accepted wisdom. Brilliant vid.
Reality is that FTP is only useful for setting training zones to try and elicit the correct physiological response from a. Given training session. The problem with the standard 20 min test is that good pacing plays a big part and is one of the hardest things about the test. This is where the new trainer road ramp test may have an advantage as it takes this out of the equation. There are pros and cons to any system. The trick is consistency both in testing and training
TrainerRoad have just changed their default FTP test to a ramp test, where power is increased every minute and you ride to failure. I would be interested in knowing GCNâs thoughts on this. #TorqueBack
James Taylor , sounds like a stress test not an ftp test.
Jeremiah Fix I don't use Trainerroad but I do watch their CZcams channel. They say the test produces a number that will be very close to most people's ftp without having to do a 60, 20 or 2x8 min test. You can find more info here: czcams.com/video/1g_V3oKBjKc/video.html
I've done a similar test to check out my FTP at the national sports centre in the Netherlands (Papendal). They test the pro's in the same way overthere so it must be good!
Sounds like a good way to determine Maximum Heart Rate, not FTP.
I have since tried it out, came out 3w higher than the 20 minute FTP test I did two weeks ago and it only took 25 minutes to compete.
One of the best vids on GCN. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it Kurt!
more of this please! great stuff
Awesome video
tdougs77 Thanks!
Great video, do more collaborations with GMBN love seeing Blake work. đđ
One question that wasn't really answered, but the question was asked is: what would be the best type of training for a mountain sportive race? for example, the Mallorca 312 with 5,500 metres of elevation.
I found my sprint was okay but not enough to win in a bunch sprint. My FTP was pretty good not the best. I found the way to win a race was to train for really good endurance and solo off the front at the end of a race about 10 miles out and hope I didnât get caught.
4D Power. Thank you GCN for addressing this so properly, and THANKS to #Sufferfest for making this a topic worth taking serious.
was that GCN testing a GMBN rider in GTN's studio?
Channelception!
The GCMBTN!
It's a trick question. It matters but the other data matters too. Your power and HR curves matter over time if you want to work with very highly structured training. Otherwise, if you're riding in groups a lot, and you're OK with your basic structure, use HR curves and an occasional VAM test on a steady incline for your "controlled" test. Your power curve, especially with other data curves, matters much more than some artificial FTP test.
The other point is that if you test higher than you do on the road, it might mean that you need to look at your gears and cadence habits. So, FTP fixation is bad. Learning how to use available data in context is good.
How to manipulate an ftp test: holding the fan and point it to the ceiling. Nice job Si đ
More Blake Samson please đđ Great to see!!! For the matter grab Mr Ashton also!! I feel a challenge coming on GCN vs GMBN đ
Awesome work to all of you ! And Si, you were absolutely smashing it, as always. Another great piece of journalism from you !
Shout out to the Peloton Racing club out of Calgary. The ginnea pigs that contributed to the study at the University of Calgary that Dr. Passfield referenced in this video. There were epic sweat puddles and pain faces. Great video ... Keep it up
Great video chaps; please do more like this đđđđ. One question though: where does this leave sweet spot training if the recommendation is to polarise training?
FTP is a bit like BMI - it reduces a reasonably complex interplay of endurance, power, physiology and mental state, into a one-dimensional statistic.
Itâs not literally âbro-scienceâ (like âcalories in/calories outâ and BMI), but itâs not far off.
Also: as Chris Capoccia mentioned in a comment earlier, familiarity with the test leads to instant improvement: my FTP went up 7% in the first three sessions where I rode for a decent length of time (as opposed to a 20-minute HIIT). All three rides were âsub-thresholdâ - the FTP was arrived at by Zwift during 50-minute sessions where my heart rate never got out of the âtempoâ range.
The âpainâ of having your pulse at an anaerobic level (>95% maxHR) for 8Ă30 seconds during a 30-on/90-rest 20-minute HIIT is qualitatively different from the âpainâ of keeping your pulse in the threshold (>85% maxHR but less than 95%) for 20 minutes.
Just knowing how to pace yourself, knowing what ânear-thresholdâ feels like, and working out that youâre not actually going to die if you ride a bit harder⊠all of these things make a difference to FTP.
And also - make the numbers comparable: express them in W/kg. It takes more wattage to push fat-man-plus-bike at a given speed on a given slope, than it does to push slim-man-plus-bike.
My âtempoâ-based FTP is 256W, but I weigh 104kg so itâs a piddly 2.5W/kg. In 3 weeks I plan to do a genuine âthresholdâ effort - I would be sad if I canât hit 275 or 280, but it would still be crap on a W/kg basis.
[UPDATE: OK so this is some months later, but my 'tempo' FYP (FTP where mr HR doesn't get above 'tempo' for any significant length of time) is *296* -ish... here's a Strava via Zwift workout from a month ago... www.strava.com/activities/1884974284 - I've lost half a stone since then; was 101kg at the time, so W/kg still weak as piss]
Simon looks like he weighs 70kg-ish, tops - so his 340-odd is more like 4.9W/kg. And although Blake looks significantly heavier than Si, his FTP in W/kg would be significantly greater than mine even though the ârawâ number is lower.
Dan, Louis and Blake - you sorted much of the cobwebs in the mind - I recently moved from mtb cleats to road cleats on my roadie (duh!) and felt noticeable improvement in my speeds with same power going into the pedals. i figured it may be the power transmission working better due to change in pedals n shoes. However the mind did not stop there and began looking up about power meters and then ofcourse FTP and what's it all about. I'm an endurance rider for 2 yrs now here in India with rides ranging upto 400 km a day and multiple days to training or few rides a week for 50 to 60 kms - I infer that though FTP test and then getting a power meter may help see how to improve it may not be the must-have stuff. Training with noting my cadence (aiming above 80 mostly) and HR (in zone 2 mostly) is something I'm focusing on. Guess I should continue on that vs just switch to FTP mode? I'm trying to increase my pace and uphill cadence consistently and consciously and guess it's working for me. Maybe I'm blabbing much here
Really enjoyed this. Can you and the GMBN team take this further? maybe a proper competitive lab session? I am definitely more Blake than Si and older than both... so its all just inspiration from where i am sat... Loved watching Si struggle to put out a meagre 1k peak power... thanks all
Louis references a researcher/doc at Univ Of Calgary but it doesn't matter how many times I listen I can't pick it out. Anyone else get it? TIA!
Wow!!! One of the best videos iv seen on the channel to date.. thumbs up guys!!
That canyon is having a really hard life!
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I'm quite sure it's Si's bike:)
It's ok.. even if it is, it's surely a promo freebie bike for gcn.
This is probably my favourite video to date... Keep up the great work!
Can't tell you how happy I was to see Blake here on GCN, more Blake the better!
Excellent one of your best to date!! Great chemistry with Blake and Si LOL
Congratulations on 2.01M!! Shocked that you interact with most comments. :)
That's why Dr. Coggan stresses all the time that FTP and the zones are descriptive and not prescriptive. I'd have liked to listen to a discussion about how useful FTP is to measure fitness (TSS, CTL, ATL, TSB) given the different rider profiles of Si and Blake.
What a fantastic video, Louis is such a fountain of knowledge!
Like Professor's presentations and find them very practical. Including this one, where practicality means that I don't need a powermeter (except for some cases of turbo-trainer driven curiosity). HR and speed readings suffice for most of us, and riding with the same speed at lower HR than previous season is enjoyable, i.e. how cycling hobby shall be.
This information fits neatly into the 4DP test the Sufferfest training app uses. I'd love to see GCN visit the SUF crew at SUFCamp in Switzerland this summer. It's right in your backyard!
Loved Simon's smile when Blake said he was going to make a cup of tea !
Thoroughly awesome and funny Mr No Pecs. Notch this one as another great informational video.
Thanks Ravin!
What an enlightment! Complete mind blowing
Cheers Miguelangel Da Vila
The problem I see with FTP is that an FTP test looks at watts and not individual biometric differences. I watt for me is the same for everyone, yet my biochemical make up is very different to anyone else's. I believe power training has its place in cycling but there is so much more that needs to be considered to maximize individual human performance success.
Def need those $4,000 zipp wheels on the trainer
will still get the aero advantages from those fan blowing
This video is a real eye-opener and might be the best one you guys ever made! Thanks a lot!
Thanks Rafael Mondini-Bueno!
I love these more nuanced videos. Top notch content. It's funny that with all the data we can collect, it still comes to a philosophical question: do you work on your strengths or your weaknesses?
Easy to say ftp is not important... When yours is 340 watt đ
Just a bit of discussion I suppose.
Interestingly, there are data out there stating that the NP of Michael Valgren during an entire tour de france stage is ~259w & 3.64wpk. Keep in mind that's over the course of ~6 hours and he's not a GC rider, so he actually have to work harder to pull for the leader. Factoring in that NP is usually higher than average power used to calculate FTP, I'm thinking it might be possible that one can have the ball park of ~260ftp and/or 3.64wpk would be able to sit in the peloton???
Now of course.... there will be a section of the race where the speed and intensity might rise significantly.... some of that is already factored into the NP, but one would probably still need to have the wheel to hold the wheel in order to stay in the draft for the whole race.
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@@jaykan1002 those long climbs that average power goes way up and the average cyclist I have a hard time believing could hold on
@@jaykan1002 no. My FTP is around 4.0w/kg or 300 watts. I canât do 3.5w/kg for even two hours so suggesting someone with less ability than me do more than I can for three times as long? No.
The FTP is important, the professor said it. If you want to work endurance you would want to work way beneath your FTP and sprints way up your FTP. But in order to do so, you FIRST need to know your FTP.
one of the most valuable videos on training. excellent. :-)
please do more videos like this. can you also do some actual training plans with accompanying videos for the different types of riders you specified?