A Bigger Disappointment than Game of Thrones - What Happened to The Walking Dead: The Ones Who Live
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- Today at the Mystery Shack, we return to the many ups and downs of The Walking Dead TV universe to talk about the much-anticipated return of Rick & Michonne in The Ones Who Live as well as the franchise as a whole in 2024.
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Timecodes
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00:00 - Introduction
01:13 - What made TWD successful?
02:48 - Spectacle vs Story & Dumbing Down of the Main Show
12:45 - Spectacle vs Story - The Ones Who Live
19:36 - Superhero Main Characters & Pandering to the Audience
29:53 - False Promises & Bloat
36:30 - Rick’s “Death”, Maggie’s “Community”, Michonne’s “Search”
39:42 - AMC and Trouble in Paradise
41:35 - The Future of TWD & My Last Hope
45:18 - Closing Thoughts
48:41 - Outro
#thewalkingdead - Zábava
The biggest problem I have with TWD is the season finale wasn’t really a finale. It was a set up episode for all the spin offs. AMC absolutely milked TWD for every penny they could with no care to quality.
Everyone says this, but how exactly? Daryl, Negan, Maggie, and the Commonwealth, got satisfying conclusions, and of course TOWL was teased in what was essentially a post-credits scene. 11x24 acted more as a finale than a "setup episode."
This is definitely annoying but not one of their worst sins in handling TWD imo
@@TheFerg714 I think if the final shot of the show (besides rick) wasn't Daryl leaving to start a new adventure, especially one we were promised we'd see, I'd agree with you here. The final two scenes (now including Rick) are pure setup, and that's the final taste they left in everyone's mouth on the mothership show. Still a great episode just... annoying
@@scottsspot But Daryl wasn't "starting a new adventure" in that scene. He was simply going on a run to recruit people, which was honestly the perfect ending for him.
@@TheFerg714 what are the context clues to support that? Because if that's what they were going for it was terribly done. You dont make a "run" feel as "final" as him riding off into the sunset. I mean right before, Maggie is telling him we need to expand and see the world. It felt 110% like a sendoff
Carl dying was what killed the whole show. Though i do agree the problems were adding up over time. But it was carls death that broke the camels back. God why did they do that lol
Absolutely, I've said it a million times but comic book Carl is my favorite TWD character period, and the show butchered all his big moments and then killed him before the whisperer arc which imo has some of his most interested and awesome moments
Yup lol when Carl died my favorite comic moments i was hoping for died with him
If I remember correctly but I could be wrong, I wanna say the actor playing Carl wanted to go back amd focus on school or something like that
@@chocolatefudgebrowni3225 that was a rumor, he literally bought a house closer to set and was fired shortly after. Nothing to do with school
That's when I stopped watching
The saviors multiplying killed me
Fr. I think that issue started once the got to Alexandria and only got worse once they introduced the other communities and the saviors.
You watch a community get absolutely massacred with a significant number of people dying and then suddenly a bunch more survivors just kinda appear and we’re supposedly always there.
I understand that that kind of thing is mostly due to logistic and budgetary restrictions on TV shows, but it still totally brings me out of the show. Completely eliminates the stakes and connect the viewer has with these groups.
The worst offense was the Commonwealth supposedly having a 50k+ population, yet we only ever saw maybe 20-30 people on screen at any given time. Also they reused that one set location to death. Didn’t feel immersive or real
I love the you touched on how deep we actually are into the apocalypse by the end of the show. When they decided to have a time skip after Andrew Lincoln's departure of like what was it 5 years? That's basically when I stopped watching. There were plenty of other reasons and arguably the show got better once the showrunners changed.
Unfortunately they really thought they could just skip ahead years to decades and act like nothing changed. To act as if there could still be groups of completely innocent and not hardened people around 10 years after the entire world collapsed.
Negan was in isolation for 5 years with 0 pyscho consequence, very unrealistic
@@IIIISai Didn't Rick talk to him like once a week with news and stuff. Also couple of others did too probably.
@@LordKeram maybe but he had 24hrs to himself, times that by 1700 days
@@IIIISai
Y’all are forgetting how he befriended Judith, meaning I assume she brought him books etc, stuff to do that kept him busy. Rick stopped by, so did Michonne, so did Carol, and I guarantee Daryl did a few times as well.
That’s one of the things about the show I’m not upset about, Negan’s state of mind. You wouldn’t go literally crazy when you have interactions with people weekly.
My brother was put in isolation/solitary for 8mos while in prison.
He said as long as he could pray, read the Bible and other books, and exercise in his cell, he was fine.
Not seeing people bothered him somewhat, but not as much as you’d think.
Ppl being thrown into solitary as POW’s is a completely diff story in the real world. It’s much more terrible than solitary in prison.
Negan wasn’t an actual psychopath or sociopath before they threw him in there ya know. My point is, ppl who are mentally ill are usually ALREADY that way before put into confinement under fairly decent & humane conditions 🤷🏼♀️
@@jacks1bonnielass thats a beautiful story and breakdown fair enough, I guess what I wanted was some type of adjustment, it felt too quick, the shows timeskip also never made us feel the true solitary, fair enough tho, how big was your brothers cell btw
Don’t forget the fact it’s apocalypse and everyone has infinite ammunition
I dropped off because none of the recent spin-offs are available anywhere apart from the US for some fucking reason
Yup, been vpning for years now. With the recent Helldivers situation too, I have no idea how a company of their size can't have licensing figured out in 2024 💀
They might be coming soon on Now TV so there's that
This is why shanes actor jon bernthal stopped watching lmao
For the longest time I thought I had stopped watching after Glenn. After re-watching the whole show, in order to see the seasons I hadn't, I had apparently watched about half of season 8. I just did not remember any of it.
U soft af lmao, but s7 quality is garbage anyways
i stopped after Negans defeat... i remember everyone at my job at the time coming in every week hooked on the show. I loved Negan belittling Rick then the old grimmy Rick coming out. Loved all the Savior chars too... once he beat all of them I felt like it was a perfect ending to the show. Next season I kindof fell back more and more also changed jobs so maybe thats it. I just not a fan of shows that go on forever. Thats why i was a fan of all those HBO shows like The Wire and stuff because it was long but not long
I dropped off for Rick's "final" episode. I was always an avid believer of this being Rick's story, so it should end with Rick (like the comic did), or pass the torch to Carl. Seeing as it did neither, I decided to make Rick's last episode my own finale to the series. Ngl it was very depressing seeing the show's decay in real time. I went from watching this series with my family as a weekly occurrence as a kid, speculating and talking about future events with my friends in high school, to sitting alone in my college dorm half paying attention and just scrolling through my phone as I was given bottle episode after bottle episode post Negan. I was definitely one of the last people in my community that stuck with that show, and even I couldn't escape from that indifference feeling leading up to Rick's final episode :/. I think my dad fell off around Alexandria, the rest of my family actually did fall off post Glenn's death, and most of my friends stopped watching during All Out War.
Aw
This describes me a lot too, i was 7 when the show started then i watched the last few episodes in my college dorm, my entire family watched till Glenn died, then it was only me till the end, i still like TWD, but nothing can beat those early days.
Thats when I was done to, but I felt the Show ended after Negan. It just wasnt about Surviving Zombies anymore. Once Zombies where no longer a real threat, it just wasnt the same Show.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was killing Carl
Agreed. I quit watching at that point as well. I did finally finish the show last year but it never recaptured what made it compelling in the first place.
His death was so pointless. Carl might not have been the best character but he was slowly getting better near the end. His build up was getting better. He could have been set up to be the man to carry the torch after Rick,
@@austinclark5278 exactly! i don't blame Chandler because he started when he was young and i couldn't imagine myself in his position, but i think that made Carl more relatable.
The walking dead fans trying not to talk how killing of Carl destroyed the show for 5 minutes: Mission Impossible.
I don’t get it. Everyone hated Carl before that, but then pretended him dying ruined a show that was already terrible for years.
1. They fired Frank early on and it was both a crappy move and not smart.
2. The biggest problem is they wanted "shocker" moments ie - Dale, Andrea, Lorie etc.. deaths.
They literally kill Andrea way early on and she is suppose to be (from my recollection) in Alexandria . Carl gets killed because "well it's the mid or end season finale.. we gotta do something crazy." Their entire decisions were based on charts and demographics;
"We can't kill Daryl.. people will riot.."
"We know the fans love these big moments.. who we gonna kill next?"
"well they gotta get here.. even though this character is dead."
They were so worried about keeping interest with these emotional / shocker moments they really screwed things over. I would be willing to bet if they didn't off characters left and right , then the most iconic death (Glenn) wouldn't have turned non comic fans off so much, especially since he had a "fake death" prior.
The comics did well because they were well written and well thought out overall.
AMC had great source material and decided to go so far off the rails and became needlessly greedy, they shot themselves in the foot.
Had they stuck to the comics, I would bet anything the show woulda have MUCH better viewership toward the end.
That’s why I only like the first few seasons. All that other shit I was like aight ima head out
Loris death was fine, and yall dramatize glenns fake death it was hilarious
@@Whooptywoop 💀
@@IIIISaihilarious does not mean good lol.
clearly they wanted adversity, as if the show didn't have enough. You cant have white family in a show anymore, that would be too racist.
Dropped off because Carl died, it wasn't even me liking the character or the actor, he was okay. His characterization was honestly mostly bad, probably a writing issue. But all that's irrelevant, Carl was the center of the show, without him, Rick doesn't work as a character. Rick doing everything for his Son is the central point of his character, its why you can watch Rick go and do absoultely unhinged fucked up things, and still end up rooting for him, without that element to his character, Rick is just some crazy no stakes action hero. They spent so long building up that bond between him and Carl that without it the show itself died to me, bad quality of s7 and s8 didn't help but at that moment it all just sorta became white noise to me, the characters just became actors, the ongoing story just became a script, and the illusion of the world being real was shattered, and this wasn't even for a character I even particularly liked. Just one of the worst writing decisions ever made in the history of Television really.
It didn’t drop off because Carl died
Preech
When negan started crying and got cut i almost dropped the shoe
Yep agreed. You know I hated Glens death, but i could accept his death a lot more then Carls surprisingly simply based off what you said.
Carl was also being set up as the man to carry the torch After Rick. Even in the Comics Carl lives on. Lots of build up for Carl snd it was ALL wasted…. The way they killed him off was lazy as fuck. I still liked season 8 to a degree but his death nearly ruined it for me.
I think the only hope for the Walking Dead IP or, Universe (TV included) is:
- a comic 1-1 animated adaptation
- a Telltale Walking Dead adaptation
- or, a separate story with new characters and a different location
Only if Amc loses the right.
And NOO, leave Clem alone they trying to ruin her enough already.
At this point, I don’t think a new story/setting would work. Unless it was GOOD GOOD. It’s automatically gonna have a bias on it by general audiences by having The Walking Dead sticker attached to it. Also the fact that they tried this with Fear but it wasn’t pulling the numbers they wanted so they tied it into the main show. Comic accurate versions of an adaptation of the games would be good but like stated in the video, Kirkman would need full creative control for it to work properly, which is doable, but AMC is going to put up a big fight and it’s likely years away from being close to happening
1-1 comic adaptation but keep the original actors. i would LOVE to see jdm act out comic negan or andrew doing the “we are not the walking dead” speech
These 3 would be great. In fact, I'd say the Daryl show is that separate story/characters cuz it's just him (and now Carol). A comic adaptation and telltale adaptation would be incredible
On the last one, just adapt the novels. It would be very interesting to see Woodbury and the Prison from a different perspective.
People left after the glen death because of how it happened not because it happened. Killing a character but not revealing who until the next season premiere is wild. I know I only watched that premiere to see who negan killed.
"Killing a character but not revealing who until the next season premiere is wild."
That's not what they did, at least not with Glenn.
Glenn was only in the premiere, not the finale.
You're thinking of Abraham.
@@chippdbanjo Noone died in the finale when they filmed that episode they didn't know who was gonna die, so both Abraham and Glenn died in the premiere, both were revealed in the same bullshit way if they wanted to do better they could have killed one of them in the finale and then Glenn in the premiere as a twist.
@@MLink723 From a first person, we literally see the final moments (and passing) of Abraham.
I wasn't critiquing them saying nobody dies in the finale, it was more the character, since the POV we see is Abraham, not Glenn.
Glenn's death was handled well imo, Abraham's was the issue because of Glenn.
Na thats not why, the quality literally DROPS after s7 premiere, glenn stans mean nothing
I always found it funny just how similar Walking Dead & Game of Thrones really are.
1. Both created as an answer to their traditional genres respectively. Robert Kirkman said he always wanted to see what happened next after a zombie movie ends and Martin's work is basically the post-modern answer to Tolkien's setting.
2. Both found a niche audience.
3. Both picked up by a major network.
4. Both a crappy showrunners, yet still had great seasons.
5. Both began to decline halfway through.
6. Both began to dumb down the storyline and simplify the characters.
7. Both have spinoffs planned. (I'm much more interested in GOT'S Spinoffs)
P.S. I also would like an animated series based off the comic that's more faithful. But yes, Kirkman would to be fully in charge and the spinoffs would need to be cancelled.
8. Both NEED an Animated Adaptation
@@damonlongstreet8630 Yes. Thank you. I knew I forgot something. 👍
No
Also, both shows decided they were better off without the creators’ input and severed their working relationships. Decline ensued shortly thereafter.
For me personally, the show was far more interesting when the main threat was the Zombies. The show benefited from having very few people in it because it made the group feel like it was them vs the world, with very little hope of finding other people to help them survive.
As soon as the show started focusing more on the human vs human conflict, and introduced the many different towns and communities, it just lost what made it special.
It became yet another human vs human show, with a bit of a zombie apocalypse sprinkled in.
Don't get me wrong, when human vs human conflict was first brought into the show in season 3 and early season 4, it was a really interesting perspective to see how our characters would handle that, as we had never seen things from that perspective really up to that point.
But as soon as the show focused almost purely on human vs human, for season after season after season, TWD just became unwatchable for me.
I dropped off after Negan was defeated, but well before then I was losing interest.
Retrospectively, I actally now think that the best place to end the series would have been when the group gets to Alexandria.
This show felt less like a show and more like a video game campaign now that i think about it
That clip with the guy writing fire gets me every damn time😅😅😅
Thats Gunna the snitch
Negan had that Thanos ability to multiply his soldiers
The fucking spinoffs make zero since, I binged the walking dead during covid quarantine from school and i was so confused when michonne left, Because it literally destroys her character, shed neve leave her fucking kids in this world to go look for a man who can handle himself , its rick fucking grimes, shes seen him do some impossible shit, your kids need you more. Daryl leaving rick and michonnes kids also makes zero since, hed die for those kids like they were his own, hed never leave them without his protection when he knows rick and michonne arent there, what if another fucking Negan comes around to kill everyone? Like some of the decisions they make literally makes no sense. These characters wouldn't of done this when they were in this primes and felt invincible (post prison, pre negan) but they would do it knowing the horrors of this world and having kids and shit?
Daryl was basically the leader after Rick and Michonne, and his leaving is basically letting any villain come around and do whatever he wants, sure Carol’s there, but she’s just one woman and she needed Daryl and others most of the time to help her protect other people
Agreed, finally somebody understands this. A.M.C has & will continue to milk this crap into the ground. Walking Dead needs new characters & direction now.
FTWD was honestly the only good spin-off, yeah it had it's downs but least it ended far better than the original and actual fan service, yes it was also inconsistent and season 8 was boring, there were only two great episodes. It felt more survival oriented than the original show and each season had a different theme and setting.
I truly understand and agree. Leaving your kids alone is horrible, let alone a ZOMBIE APOCALYPTIC world setting, I don’t care if it’s for your love, your children are your life. Ps I love TOWL it’s ending. I’m done with the TWD now, but I completely agree dude
@@justinpatton6996 I honestly think covid killed the revival of the walking dead because season 9 was fucking awesome in my opinion and then in season 10 the show felt soo empty, all the familiar background characters disappeared, which made the show feel so small. Like the episode where Alexandria was flooding, we saw like 8 people in Alexandria freaking out and all of them were in the main cast, what happened to all those background characters like the bald black guy ? I know its a weird nitpick but it made the show feel sooooo much smaller
I assume you haven't seen Dexter but it literally has two bad endings like they made the first one bad and then when they tried to fix it they made it even worse interestingly Dexter is also based on a book
I still can’t believe new bloods ending was somehow even far worse than season 8s ending. It’s actually unbelievable still too me😂😂it had to be done on purpose
personally i didn't watch season's 10 and 11, but i picked the show back up for rick and michonne given it was the one plotpoint i cared about, i liked it more than.. most people seem to.. because it was, whilst not perfect and obviously contrived, giving me everything i really wanted out of the tv universe now, an ending, and i feel, even if ik they're gonna continue this on for like 5 more spinoffs atleast, i got an ending with rick seeing his kids again. and i'm fine with that as an ending.
New Korotos Video dropped, my infant son has to wait for his dinner
The first four episodes of the ones who live were phenomenal. There’s a few issues of course but I think overall they are incredibly solid episodes. Then five and six drove off a cliff with so many stupid plot contrivances, rushed conclusions and unsatisfying story telling.
I personally really enjoyed season 10 and 11. Even though I do agree with the criticism of the characters perhaps being too invincible. On one hand, they’ve been through so much it makes sense that they are experienced enough to get out of most situations but at the same time they do feel far too covered in plot armor at times.
I thought S11 was a great conclusion to the series and the way it ended, while open ended, left off on a hopeful, philosophical positive uplifting note with the whole “were the ones who live” monologue. It just really resonated with me.
After the ones who live though, I think I’m done with this franchise. It’s meant a lot to me and it helped me through a lot of horrible times in my life. But I think at this point I’m just done. The universe will never really have a satisfying conclusion with the way it’s going and I am personally OK with just seeing season 11 as the ending with the ones who lives being a mostly good epilogue even with those last two episodes being really stupid.
Couldn't agree more with u regarding The ones who live. Jadis should've been more of a threat, beale should've been more of a threat and you cut out the cheesy champy dialogue and boom, easy 8 or 9/10 for each episode.
For me I’m just gonna pretend no way out was the end for Twd
@@forthecool I could see that being a good ending
@@rhadpenguin 6 episodes isn’t enough run time for what they wanted to achieve. It should’ve been 8 to 12 episodes imo. And dedicated at least 3 episodes to taking down the CRM and with more help than just rick and michonne.
@@Sev3617 absolutely agree that 8 episodes could've done it. You flesh out the first episode and break it apart by giving more context to what Rick was up too after being taken by the CRM. Then take the time to close the story with more detail and not rush to a close in a single ep.
really happy your making this video and the length of it as well very nice!
Thank you for saying you’re going to continue the retrospective on the comics ending 🔥 been really looking forward to that
The ones who live Absolutely was not worse than how Game of Thrones ended. Not even close
The Negan and Daryl show was WAY worse
Negan yesh Daryl was great
Daryl wasn't really bad. I mean it's not a masterpiece buts it's enjoyable. Dead City I can agree wasn't great even though it should've been
I dropped off at Carl's death. Not because I was upset with him being killing off, but because the show had gotten to a point where it felt like there were no stakes and it had lost the 'uncertainty' that made it gripping to watch in the first few seasons. I remember watching this episode and being so un-interested through the whole thing because this was the hundredth time they put a character in a dire situation and I was positive he would be fine in the end. Even though they did kill him off, it was so removed from the plot of that episode and felt like such a desperate attempt to boost viewership that I just couldn't finish the season after that.
So happy to see your sub count balloon. Youve been great
As someone who has never watched walking dead and watched this video completely i would like you applaud 👏 your narration skills
🙇♂️
where are you guys from? im curiohs because as a canadian i never have these issues being right next to america, im wondering what countries get effected by this lol
Been waiting for this video
I mostly enjoyed the ones who live save for a couple cheesy lines and the end of the CRM being underwhelming, but I love to hear your thoughts on this show no matter what and you make such good points I usually respect and understand your view point. Looking forward to watching this with some pizza :)
Agreeeees. Korotos is a hater but we love him anyways lol
I just looked up the ending where Rick is reunited with Judith. It was nice. I'm good now, I'm not interested in any of the spinoffs.
I think I dropped off around season 5 or 6 once I realized that every single episode was just "Resolve last episode's cliffhanger in the first 5 minutes, 40 minutes of largely nothing happening, then put a big cliffhanger in at the last second so people will have to come back next week" over and over again. The season finales were the same thing with a bigger budget, just a show limping along by trying to keep hooking you at the last minute so you'll watch the next episode until they run out of episodes or you get wise and stop being played by them.
Seasons 1-6 (And S7E1) was incredible. Then the rest of season 7 happened… I don’t know how it managed to fall off so hard.
I really enjoy your perspective, it saves me sooo much time from even being curious about whatever they made after... I dropped off at the end of the main show, I'm not even 100% I watch all of it, I might have missed things somewhere along the middle. I gave them chances to do something with this main story they had been making for years. But, even if I didn't feel it was as bad as dummies and dragons, I mean, Game of Thrones, I still felt it was pretty much meaningless and had little to no satisfaction. So, I wasn't even paying attention anymore to whatever they were doing, enough is enough, even my addiction for audiovisual fiction has a limit. So, many thanks to you for putting this one up together, I can safely keep developing my skills to discard the things I know lead nowhere. Maybe an anime adaptation could be interesting, I do agree on that as well! 😁
The “special” walker thing also kinda goes to show that the writers or execs or whoever is really big on that decision kinda misses the point of the source material. The zombies are entirely superfluous. They’re just a mechanism for the story to happen and a force of nature that the characters have to deal with
well, since korotos asked... I did fall off after the Glen/Negan thing. I remember watching the season 7 premier on a common area TV in my friend's dorm, and we both sat there for hours afterwards talking about how annoyed we were with how the scene played out. neither of us were comic-readers, but like most people at the time, we knew what was _supposedly_ about to happen.
it felt really cruel to tease something that everyone suspected was going to happen, then give people false hope that the writers actually had the guts to change the source material in an interesting way, then tear that intrigue away. Abraham was a cool character! and I think his death would've still been impactful on its own. but... we were especially annoyed that it was Daryl's fault. I'm all for characters doing dumb stuff that ends up having disastrous consequences, especially if you as a viewer can understand why they did what they did. but in TWD's case with Glen's death, it felt like the writers used the fact that Daryl was a fan-favorite to wipe their hands clean of having the scene play out the way it did.
I think we floated the idea of watching it week-to-week, but the next week we were still annoyed, then the next week, and the next... eventually we just decided to drop the show. although to be fair, we would've had to reserve one of the common area TVs every week since that was the only way we could watch cable, which was kind of a headache lmao
but anyhow, that's just my perspective. I mostly watch the AoT videos, but this was a really interesting analysis! makes me want to relieve the good ol' early days of TWD with the retrospective series. who knows, maybe I'll end up picking up the show where I left off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Would love to see the “Invincible treatment” for TWD
I really hated how the series built up the CRM to be some sort of elite military force only to have them be a complete paper tiger. But in general I don't think most writers know how to depict a professional military force so that is hardly a problem that is unique to TWD. Pretty often the depiction becomes a pretty cartoonish distortion of how the writers think a military force acts.
Another banger Koroto
Stayed for the whole thing lol good video bro
Little known fact; Saviors and Dothraki have respawns, that's why no one reacts to their replenishing numbers in universe
is it a safe space to say i loved it
Yes, this is a safe space. Glad you liked it 😅
No!! You can't like things other people don't like!
Didn't stop watching it well at this point I'm just watching it to just know what's happening
The cave episode was straight disrespectful to anyone from a mining community
Yes . . . like fireman were disrespected by Halloween . . . All the problems with the actual show, and yours is the most pathetic way to look at it. Fuck off and grow up
I luv your vids! I'm literally the ONLY person I know that's still watching! & honestly, it's just because I wanna see how it ends...I'm too deep in 😅
Yup, that's me. All my friends dropped off years and years ago 😅
At least now I have closure for the Grimes family and I'm sorta done.
@Koroto exactly! Now I just watch put of curiosity. I have no investment lol
Are we all just still watching cuz of the sunken cost fallacy? 🫠
They killed Chandler Riggs off because he was older and they would have to pay him as an adult and not a child actor anymore. The man purchased a house in Atlanta. Same shit Happened to Beth
So I wouldn’t say it was as disappointing as game of thrones considering the story at least ended up where I wanted it to conceptually. Rick essentially saves the world and comes full circle finding his family. My problem however is the execution to get to that was awful. Game of thrones failed in execution and the final result as well imo
As the show went on i feel like AMC forgot what made the walking dead "THE WALKING DEAD" successful
The writers are just good enough that they can tread water without getting cancelled. I can’t blame them for choosing a steady paycheck but I prefer more passionate art.
I disagree on the thrones imploding suddenly thing. It had cracks that formed around the midway point but managed to keep some quality till later on but the last season was SOOOO bad people forget the issues with seasons 4-7. Ill never forgive the dorne disgrace or the lack of lady stoneheart and feagon
I think of a lot of the changes GoT made in the same way I think of a lot of the changes TWD made - it's sort of a threshold.
TWD, for example, immediately dabbled with the CDC and the origins of the virus - something that was a huge no-no with the overall themes of the comic. But because the big picture was still really strong, you can excuse it.
Same for GoT, they removed A LOT of the magic and mysticism right from the get-go (like 99% of the Stark-warg storyline is removed outright), but again, because the rest of the story was super strong, you can excuse it.
But with both shows, like I mentioned in the video, once they break the illusion, you start to look back and notice a lot more things that you would've previously excused, like the CDC, like Terminus, like the Stark wolves, like Lady Stoneheart, like John being dumbed down etc etc. Then again, obviously this is all just based on vibes, so that's just how I see it. For me, GoT burned their goodwill a lot faster than TWD.
@@Koroto I definitely see what you're saying, twd definitely went against the source in bigger ways earlier and got had a bigger and more sudden turn from most fans perspective. Ive just always thought people have rosed tinted glasses for the moddle seasons of thrones. It was still good but definitely already on a decline, but the last season fully fell off a cliff so it takes most of the heat when it comes to the issues. I completely agree with the overall point i just think there was a slow decent before the big drop, but that doesn't really change the end outcome😂
@@Koroto i think both shows made the same kind of mistakes but twd started its downhill slide earlier and there was never really the big drop off, so there isnt as much of a moment fans turned and people are more likely to forget the flaws before that big drop at the last season because of it is more what i was trying to say
S5 was the start of the downfall. THE dorne plot, Littlefinger giving Sansa to the Boltens and on top George himself coming out say he would Never do something that stupid.
@@Koroto how was comics termanius
Oh damn just based on that title I do not agree in the slightest. Thrones for me was monumentally more disappointing. The ending of Thrones make it hard to rewatch even the good stuff. That being said I love your videos and can’t wait to hear your take!
Idk, I feel the same exact way about both.
Recently rewatched GoT, still absolutely loved the first seasons despite the horrific ending. I got so locked in that I finally even went through all the extra lore books 😅
Same with TWD - could rewatch the first seasons on loop forever, but as soon as I get to season 7ish, I start rolling my eyes more and more 😬
@@Koroto that’s totally fair - I think my tolerance for BS is stronger for sure. For me the difference is where as the characters in TWD became massive Flanderizations by the end they at least retained that. Dany flipping at the end felt to me like a complete departure from who she was. Maybe that’s why I feel that way. Here’s hoping Kirkman gets his wish and we get an animated adaption in 20 years!
@@JosephMichael Nah the first two seasons of TWD had some of the best dialogue in a show so consistent and tastefully written. Then the writer who made it all happen got fired around season 2 after that they started using character deaths as fuel to keep the show going.
And the cracks started to show in season 5. And the charm of the show was completely gone by s7 20 hour long episodes of vapid writing somehow sold by the likes of Andrew Lincoln, Norman and jeffrey dean morgan.
@@blakan1478 oh no yeah the quality dropped no denying that. I stand by most things Koroto brings up in his retrospectives like bottle eps and what not. My point was more so for me personally GoT was more egregious.
Exactly it's not that bad wtf
I’ve watched most of the series several times over(up until season 7) and continued watching them release on tv with my family but just kind of puttered out just before the series final, haven’t gone back because I felt the passion, the story, characters, and smaller plot lines between them seemed uninspired and unnecessary. Which sucks because it started so strong, the flow of the seasons and the struggle of understanding and empathizing with both points of view kept us all captivated. By the end it just felt redundant in a sense. The risk of taking a big step forward kept them in this phase of renewing the same threads with new faces after killing too many for shock value
Totally agree about the action feeling weightless as the show progressed to later seasons. You felt so much weight when the farm was attacked, but in that season 8 episode where Hilltop is attacked (Do not send us Astray episode) the whole battle felt...weightless and totally forgettable.
I dropped off at season 8, Carls death appauled me, but I tried to stick it through but after seeing how the saviors were defeated I knew the show was no longer for me. Then i heard Rick was leaving and absolutely hardened my stance
I feel like they should have made Rick captured by the Commonwelath instead of the CRM, so we could have a proper and more comic accurate ending in season 11.
Also, their lack of vision for the end of the series lead them to really mismanaged the characters whose actors were leaving the series.
Andrew Lincoln needs a break? As I said, have Rick getting captured by the Commonwealth and signed Andrew up for the final season
Danai wants to leave the show near the end of the Whisperers arc? Give her Andrea's death in the comics.
Lauren wants to leave the show in season 9? Put Maggie's head on the spikes or give her Jesus' death (what a shock that would have been)
Anyway, so many better ways to handle this. Also, what a shame to deprive themselves of good characters like Dwight and Morgan by sending them into spin-off.
Yessssssirr my favourite channel
My wife and I watched until I think season 10. We both lost interest when we realized all the characters we liked were gone and they spent too much time on Eugene and crew being naive and paling around with the obvious fascists. I also really didn't like the manic pixie dream girl. She seemed way too annoying and kind of stupid to still be alive that far into an apocalypse.
I always found the society aspect of the walking dead quite boring, but it was ok. The problem for me began when they started to save ALL the big fights to seasons hiatus or finales. Not only would take forever to get something cool, but you had to wait even more, cause they would split it.
Excellent review. Agree 100%
Rhe thing i think is so sad is that so many people will never watch/re-watch the walking dead because its so big and such a big tome commitment
Hey, I have a quick question. Would you like to make a Sopranos video in the future?
After Carl I just didn't care anymore. I finished that season and just stopped.
Yeah, I liked Carl
In the final analysis: Frank Darabont should've never been fired.
Just like in real life sometimes you got to deal with unbelievable s*** to make everything else makes sense and I have remained a loyal fan to The walking Dead and will always be his biggest fan in my heart unlike anything else in life it is possible to overanalyze every thought and in every situation so if you truly love something taste the good with the bad and enjoy what's coming next good show overall thank you for your input it was very intelligent and well thought out
Its honestly just sad how AMC just beat the walking dead to its last breath and its STILL doing it
Still haven’t dropped off. Rick is the only real thing keeping me invested at this point and no matter how bad the story is, i always enjoy any episode he’s in. Even seasons 9-11, the small possibility we heard anything about rick was keeping me invested, but i definitely will only ever rewatch episodes that he’s in from now on😂
your criticisms are valid but i needed the walking dead to end and honestly i was relatively happy with how it did.
like, i get it's dumb, and badly writen, i get it really doesn't work from a logical perspective.. but it was really well directed, and has some scenes i really enjoy, so i can look past the stupid dialouge, the wierd plot that makes no sense, the dropped plotpoints, all of it, as long as it sets up a proper ending for these characters i've come to love.
I stopped watching once they killed Carl. It completely changed the point of the story, and I heavily disagreed with the way they treated Chandler. I read the comics as the show was going and I was like, how do they plan to keep going now?! Carl was so important to the storyline. That, and them aging everyone up right after nulls the "Chandler's getting too old!" excuse. There were ways around him aging and they instead chose to mess with the story so greatly it made me annoyed. There have been many story changes up to that point, but this one just felt...ridiculous, and dumb. That combined with them swiping the rug from under Chandler, and treating him like shit made me go okay, I'mma take a break. I've kept vaguely interested since then, but I have not sat down and watched weekly or whatever since then. Which makes me sad, as I adored the early bits. Part of me is glad I stopped then, because boy I would've been upset with some of the main character syndrome in the later seasons.
The shows biggest problem is that it didn't respect the source materials in the end and tried to screw the creators. Bad business, done by people that dont understand filmmaking. Not to mention, the spin-offs didnt matter.
If AMC just did what you've suggested and start fresh with a new story new characters and have a completely new status quo i feel like they'd be on the road to actually success rather than trying to milk the dead franchise for what LITTLE its worth
Walking Dead Stan here, not here to argue but around 10:20 have you ever played call of duty zombies? It’s much easier to hit a target that’s walking towards you slowly than another person with a gun trying to shoot you
lol while watching The One Who Lived finale I started thinking ain’t no way TWD is pulling a D&D on us 😭
"_ fatigue " is just copium. If they made GOOD stuff, nobody would get tired of it. 😂
The apocalypse genre is not dead. All of us are Dead, Alive (the original) Ashin of the North and Kingdom. Zombie verse was brilliant fun. Squid Game (not apocalypse but a survival story) Hellbound Lots and lots of things still spike my interest. All of the ones I mentioned though have one thing is common, they don't care if you like the characters, they will kill them off anyway so it keeps your interest not knowing who will live.
Unfortunately, I don´t know the comics. My problems began in TWD Negan Arc, which took forever and ever and ever. It didnt´t feel like zombie apocalypse surviving anymore, just like a bad soap opera with more drama, dumb character decision and even more filler crap just to fill somehow the episode. Season 10 & 11 I remember watching way later on speed 1.5, because there was SO much unnecessary filler stuff in these episodes wich neither add nor contribute to the overall story. You could literally cut these out and have like half of the season with somehow a dense story. Also poor Daryl, Maggie and Negan : Never being allowed to have something more going on in story arc as the same old song seasons ago :(
Comic Negan Arc 97-126 (30 issues)
Show Negan Ark 612-818 (37 episodes)
Note half of the comic story was skipped/ignored for the show.
@@damonlongstreet8630except the negan arc was done better in the comics
@@8johh 1000%
Lmao
@@damonlongstreet8630 daryl was braindead and caused their capture
0:45 The zoom-in here killed me😂
Another amazing video!! Will the Season 11C video be out soon?
The thing im most confused about from AMC to begin with is that if AMC is pandering to the same audience that was watching the walking dead over a decade ago eventually even the most loyal fans are going to eventually go away and what will AMC do then i guess only time will tell
As much as I love the TWD franchise I would say that by TWD season 10 they were milking a cow that was practically out of milk because you had so many show exclusive characters and characters that had already died in the book at that point
I left mid season 7, because of writing.. Then, i came back because i liked the *first* season of Fear TWD and i was hoping the main serie got better... I left again in season 9 because it was worst. I CAME BACK AGAIN for the Daryl Spin-of (i didn't finish the main serie) thinking it could be a different vibe or a different show with new creator team ect. I was right for the team behind (kinda) but it has the EXACT same problem! (you explained very well, by the way) It's insane to me that they can't use these spin-of for at least offer something else. It's crazy to me that Disney give a least something different for each Marvel/Star wars spin-off series (even if its not always good) and TWD simply can't.
Season 7 was a drop for me. I watched the ones who live and greatly disliked the first episode and how it just whirled through so much time and situations in minutes, they must've been in a hurry for no reason. It felt extremely weak to me, I'd have liked watching a whole season watching Rick trying to figure out the new community, talking his way up, finding friends, rally a group to escape with idk. It fell short for me which is sad bc the concept seemed interesting.
oh i am READY FOR THIS
i liked it
I wish I did 😭😭
@@Koroto Looking at imdb it looked like most people liked it.
@@lifeloverNorris people also buy the same iphone for 900
@@lifeloverNorris Eh more likely that the people who are still watching the walking dead and also taking their time to review it on imdb, are also the same people who are not likely to voice criticism for the show. Walking Dead is pretty much irrelevant besides the people who are still somewhat invested in it for nostalgia reasons.
Get fuuuuuuuked. The end on the ones who live was awesome. Perfect ending to the walking dead.
You can like it but that doesn’t mean it was good
@@TEEANVEE lmao. That really made me laugh. I liked zombies before it was cool. I sat down every Sunday and watched every episode like the super bowl with my friends and snacks. Bbqs. Your right to me it was special. I thought it was perfect. Judith the actress had aged. They reunited. The brave man made it home.
@@TEEANVEE for the record that's the most honest answer I've seen online possibly ever. Lol you can like it but that doesn't mean it was good. Well done.
Honestly, when it comes to The Ones Who Live, i just feel like everyone loved it initially, then after the show ended, everyone started to hate on it, i admit that it's not what everyone wanted, but at least look at the bright side, we got a happy ending, can''t say that about most characters.
Some parts were so so amazing some weren’t but I overall really liked it
More people know Negan from Tekken than have seen him on the show
The first episode of TOWL was phenomenal but somewhere between that and episode 6 it really did go to hell they rushed the story line way to much and I don't think the constant narrative of "love" was the best play honestly it just stole the run time from what could have been a more interesting story.
As someone who stopped watching shortly after the Glenn/Negan episode, it wasn't like i was mad they killed him off. I was mad that they did the worst type of cliffhanger possible to create all this hype just to have it be basically the same thing anyone whos read the comics could have guessed. Like we all knew it was coming but they dragged it out just to get people talking thinking they were doing some big brain fakeout. I found the prior season finales to also be super unsatisfying, generally enjoying the penultimate episodes better then being disappointed come the finale. The Glenn Negan thing was just the straw that broke the camels back there for me at least
I watched Walking Dead all the way through and for a while I thought I was the only one. While I have some issues with the show I can never hate it. It was the first time I got into a show like this and it wouldn’t feel right to stop it. I think the only difference between me and some other people is I was enjoying it, where as others who stuck with it to the end just wanted closure I guess, idk. I mean if I had left I would have missed out on some great moments of nostalgia. For example, the second half of season 8 and all of season 9 is so nostalgic to me it hurts. While I didn’t hate TOWL, it just showed me that the original show, warts and all, was better made. I think John Locke should’ve have been more and it should’ve been like 10 episodes, maybe 8. That way an ending to the CRM could’ve been not rushed, or at least lesser rushed. That’s where I stand
where im at is plain and simple they hyped the crm up for literally years just to have it all wrapped up in 6 episodes honestly does feel insulting to everyone that actually stayed with the show this long. dont get me wrong i liked the ones who lived but the crm were supposed to be this big threat right just to have it all wrapped up in 6 episodes after hyping the crm up for the last 10 years is just a massive dick move
I've been watching game of thrones recently and regardless of how it ended those early seasons are still peak TV, you would be forgiven if you forgot just how good those early seasons are... I'm guessing if I rewatch the early seasons of twd I'll probably feel the same
I domt get the appeal for game of troyones
I’ve always liked your videos but that title is the most clickbait shit of all time. It wasn’t the best spinoff ever but how could you ever possibly compared it to the failure that was S8 GOT?
Once again a superb analysis Koroto! I'm really sad about the walking dead, the comics are so peak and the show just went completely off the rails, I will not watch any of those spinoffs..
What went wrong? Noone looks underfed or starving, all the women find razors for armpits and legs, There's never any accumilation of dust in houses they visit, none. Everyone is suddenly a perfect shot and can shoot heads at the first go. Negan. Maggie. A Tiger, yes I know it was in the comics but still. I left when Rick did and got back into it for Those Who Live. Rick and Michonne having time to get it on whilst the building is collapsing, just in the nick of time. Even the Rumba wouldn't have dusted the tops of things btw. I cared more for the rumba than Rick by this point. Rick not being hurt by his own hand grenade. They wasted the actor who played Locke too. Also the Walkers weren't a threat from season 5, so what was the point.
I stopped watching when Rick fought the trash zombie when they were recruiting people to take on Negan. The show had been falling off for awhile for me and seeing a group of survivors in a literal trash heap made it too hard to suspend my disbelief
Definitely not as bad as game of thrones it gave some much wanted and needed closure. Daryl’s was actually the best out of the 3 and negan and Maggie’s was just….kinda there.
Uhh twd is just a far worse show than game of thrones (still love twd though don’t get me wrong) i think it’s held to a bit lower standard just because twd was kind of bad for awhile whereas game of thrones was real on bad two seasons. I do think the ending to twd was better than game of thrones ending though
@@raymondsims7042 ending really makes or breaks a show tbh because game of thrones dropped the ball at the end it really makes it the worse show. Rather walking dead’s quality drop but stay consistent then just turn into a dumpster fire completely disrespecting the fans who watched from the start.
I think your opinions are spot on. I am a huge TWD fan. Watched every show, read all the comics, played all the games, even made the mistake of pre-ordering all of the bad ones. It is such a shame that they tanked this series because it was, and could've remained, the best show on television. I have never been so invested, impressed, and disappointed by the same thing.
I think part of the reason is because man, they *really* hit with the original cast up to like season 7. Those characters were memorable and likable, compared to something like Fear. I watched the first 3 seasons and tried to watch the 4th but man did they fuck over this show. The characters just didn’t have the staying power to make the show likable purely off of them, whereas TWD they kind of did that. It also doesn’t help that they killed off literally all of their likable and memorable characters for NO REASON except for Strand and Alica, both of which were way past their prime.