Eleanor Oliphant & Convenience Store Woman | REVIEWS
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2018
- My reviews of CONVENIENCE STORE WOMAN and ELEANOR OLIPHANT IS COMPLETELY FINE. Mild spoilers throughout.
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Books mentioned:
CONVENIENCE STORE WOMAN by Sayaka Murata (trans. Ginny Tapley Takemori)
ELEANOR OLIPHANT IS COMPLETELY FINE by Gail Honeyman
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Goodreads: tinyurl.com/43pks567
Twitter: tinyurl.com/2y2cytzj
When someone says they don't believe someone like this person exist to me that just reveals that you haven't seen these types of people in the world... This book is designed to help us understand the person everyone is keeping their distance from because they are very awkward and strange to be people who are not used to trauma. I applaud both of these writers who are trying to explain that this not abnormal, it's just hidden.
I'm a single thirty something woman who is considered to be somewhat of a social misfit. Love books about people like that.
I am psychologist and can tell you that people like Eleanor really exists!
The inconsistencies in her character make more sense when you see how some relate to lack of social experience or understanding, falling for the dumb rockstar, not knowing what seeing someone is, what getting a drink at a bar is like, while knowing the psychological motives behind guests on the antiques road show is something any shut-in type could certainly have made sense of. I thought these inconsistencies were clever and realistic.
Sarah Wylie agreed, couldn’t have written it better.
i just read the book after listening to your review. so thank you !! In 'The Convenience Store Woman', Keiko derives the meaning of her existence from the convenience store as her entire life is structured around it. she finds peace in the monotonous functioning of the store and it is oddly comforting to lay in between the pages of the book feeling safe in the Keiko's cocoon of perfection. i was actually reminder of Christopher from 'the curious incident of the dog in the night time'. these type of books deconstruct the mainstream definition of normality, making people realize the need to acknowledge all niches.
I'm so glad you read Convenience Store Woman and enjoyed it!
B b b b
I loved the Eleanor book. I love odd people, cause I am one.
What a fascinating double review, I'm really grateful that you helped me choose between them and explained your impressions so well.
I think you need to take more time to understand Eleanor. She is dealing with PTSD and the effects of growing up in an unstable home. Her ability to illicit meaning from some social cues and not others is as a result of her complicated childhood. Having to deal with such a turbulent mother made her have to learn to decipher people's true intentions (hence being able to tell when people lie about wanting to keep antiques), and this was probably a defence mechanism she was forced to develop, even if her neurological makeup makes her unable to illicit other social cues. People's psyches are much more complex than we understand, and our human desire to categorise things is probably why you found her character unbelievable. Complex individuals such as Eleanor exist, especially in a world designed for neurotypical people. Neurodivergent people end up learning some coping mechanisms that allow them to seem "normal" in some aspects and "not" in others. I think if you have a greater compassion for her and a more open-minded perspective on what trauma looks like, you'll come to appreciate Eleanor's characterisation a bit more.
I only read Eleanor Oliphant, I thought it was very good, I liked the character, I think she just was trapped inside herself, but I liked it a lot. The author definitely understood this type of personality. I think the character is very believable, sometimes the pain we have inside haunts us more or less at different times. She wants to die, she wants to live. There are a lot of Eleanor's out there just trying to keep the pain at bay, sometimes fighting themselves for the freedom to be. This was an excellent character study, it shows how abuse can never be erased or over ridden, you just got to carry on and hope you won't be judged to harshly and hating yourself for even caring what people think. Her pain is very real. I'm glad she had the character of Raymond and her cat. 👍🏽
It's so interesting how different we can find and read a book. I loved Eleanor Olliphant and don't agree with your description about the book. But then again it's always interesting to see how other people analyse a book I really liked.
Totally! I can definitely see why this book has resonated with so many people, but I guess the character just didn't work as well for me as it did for most people. But hearing everyone's thoughts in the comments here has been really interesting and given me additional things to think about :)
Thank you Claire!!! This video made me read Convenience Store Woman and now I'm back with all the love I got for the book! I loved the main character so so much and it's funny cause at one point I thought "How come my favorite character of the year and my least favorite character of the year happen to be in the same book." I think I wouldn't call Keiko a workaholic but someone is super suitable for her work, and I really love her thoughts about being a part of a machine, and more importantly she's enjoying her life so much although she didn't realize it. I think talking from her point of view, this book showed how others were hypocritical to a point that was laughable. Great review, and thanks again!! 😘
This makes me so happy!!! I'm so glad you liked the book! Loved seeing the Chinese cover on your Twitter, too :D I totally agree-I found Keiko to be a wonderful character, and the way the book explored what it means to lead a "meaningful" life was so great! xx
Someone gushingly recommended Eleanor to me this week, so I’m now definitely intrigued to read it in light of your review. Thanks, Claire
I hope it was helpful! Would love to hear your thoughts after you've read it :)
Hmm comforting and unsettling, an endearing combination I really like in books, especially what you say about determining the ending upon the reader, I love that kind of stuff. Also honestly I would totally do what Keiko did about just asking someone to live with me out of convenience (a pun? Maybe) but I did not expect to hear how you described her roommate haha he sounds awful !! I can’t wait to read this : )
Yeah, I suppose there are certain aspects of Convenience Store Woman that can be a little heavy-handed, but although some of the characters like Shihara have a few monologues where they expound on their world views, I don't think Murata is ever explicitly telling you what to think, which I appreciate. And the ending is really one of those that is happy on a micro level but kind of unsettling on a macro level (in terms of what it says about us as a society). So yeah, I really recommend it! Especially because it does avoid cliches in a lot of ways-I was expecting the Shihara character to become a love interest, but this book was like "lol, NOPE!" hahaha
I never finished Eleanor Oliphant, mostly because I got 'Cinderella' transformation vibes from it - traumatic past leading to her isolated life that quickly changes when she meets a man (obviously didn't read the whole thing so I don't know how it ended up). It seemed more like her life style was the inevitable consequence of her past, than a choice - more what I was looking for, and from the sound of it - Convenience Store Woman is closer to that. Everything you said about it made me want it asap! Also both of these reviews are gold!
Yes, I also didn't appreciate the "makeover" elements of the story! Even though she made some snarky comments about it, it was still viewed as a net positive in the context of the book, which I found so cliche. Convenience Store Woman definitely had surprises/resisted cliches in ways that I wish Eleanor Oliphant had :)
I can listen to you speak all day! You would be a perfect audible narrator!
I just finished “The convenience store woman” and afterwards went on to see reviews, just to get a feel of what everyone else is thinking, being such a unique book. I absolutely loved your review, so spot on. You elaborate what I feel about it so well! I was hesitant about picking up Eleanor Oliphant and I think I will pass.
Thanks so much, Maria! I love Convenience Store Woman the longer I think about it (and definitely don't recommend picking up Eleanor Oliphant unless it really seems up your alley).
I'm definitely looking forward to getting my hands on Convenient Store Woman now that I've heard you describe it in such engaging way. One of my favorite aspects of booktube is starting a video and then hearing about a book you haven't encountered before and leaving thinking that you got to read it now, so thanks for that :)
When Eleanor Oliphant first started making rounds I was really excited to read it but after hearing a lot of critical reviews which arguments spoke to me and highlighted the things I knew would bother me in said title I grew less and less eager to track a copy. That being said your take on this novel was one of my favorites, I loved the way you pointed out contradictions you saw and how clearly you examined the reasons behind your dissatisfaction.
Also, as a relatively new person to your channel I was so happy to see this video pop up as the way you talk about books really chimes with what the booktube is to me. I'm looking forward to many more videos from you, Claire.
I'm so glad you're interested in Convenience Store Woman! You'll definitely have to let me know what you think if you end up picking it up :) And yeah, I initially wasn't super interested in Eleanor Oliphant but ended up picking it up because I liked Convenience Store Woman so much and was curious to see how they compared-but my gut instinct ended up being right, haha. And thanks so much for the kind comments, Gemma - can't wait to chat more about books with you in the future!
Thank you for sharing your book review on these 2 books, then comparing them. Have not read either but will definitely read “Convenience Store woman” now, which I think is the book out of the 2 you are recommending… :)
I laughed out loud when you questioned and challenged Eleanor’s social ineptness, how the character was written in such a way that it makes it hard to believe she is a real person. That definitely contrasts very nicely with Reese Witherspoon’s quote on the front cover praising the book!
I bought these two books at the same time also and like how they feature two women who are social outcasts. I like Convenience Store (Person) better. The author, Sayaka Murata, actually is in tune with the character Keiko. Eleanor on the other hand was written by a woman who wanted to explore "what loneliness is like", so the author Gail Honeyman, wasn't aware of what it's like to live your life alone as an outcast.
I read the first 20 pages of Eleanor Oliphant and returned it to the library. Really interesting thoughts about quirks/not knowing social cues vs. lack of common sense or lack of understanding that many people feel that way (not just her) re: some patriarchal values.
Yeah, if I hadn't been listening to it on audio, I probably wouldn't have finished it, either...I can see why people like it, but the character just didn't work for me :/
I just finished reading convenience store woman in Japanese and I was wondering how the satire would translate! I’m glad you enjoyed the book! I agree too :)
The more I hear about Eleanor Olyphant, the gladder I am that I haven't read it, nor am I planning on it. I have heard a lot about Convenience Store Woman and think it might be worth picking up in the future, and I really enjoyed your discussion on both novels :]
Thanks, Sabrina! You didn't miss much with Eleanor Oliphant, but I think Convenience Store Woman is worth a try (it won't make you feel super warm and fuzzy, but it is an interesting little book!) :)
That's ok, I tend to choose prickly more often than I do warm and fuzzy :] I added it to my library hold list and I hope I can get the ebook soon!
Definitely picking up Convenience Store Woman! Thanks for he reviews Claire 😊
Yay! Definitely let me know what you think, Jenna :D
Enjoyed the comparisons between these books. There alway seems to be a few themes that stand out among books you read (lately for me it's been the act of storytelling and motherhood). I'm one of those who did enjoy Eleanor, having found Eleanor to be unlike any character I had ever read, though it did make her an unbelievable character at times. The theme that largely stood out while reading was the desire to connect and unfortunately it's hard to connect when you are so unlike "society." I think Eleanor did what many of us do which is conform to connect (which we shouldn't haven't to do) and then once connections begin start to be ourselves again. I agree with what you said about her obsession with the rock star though, in no way did I enjoy that plot and found it to be unreasonable.
Thanks, Amy! I think I'm definitely one of those people who gets inspired to read books based on other books I've read recently (hence some of the occasional thematic/subject matter similarities, hehe). And the human connection theme was definitely a big one in Eleanor Oliphant and was actually one of the parts of the book I did like-I enjoyed her relationship with Raymond and found him to be very endearing. :)
Great review! I found the ending of Convenience Store Woman both happy and sad (maybe slightly more happy than sad). My worst/best thought during reading was around the part Keiko asks the sister-in-law about having kids and feeling so glad that woman was honest and harsh and that at least the story wasn't going to go down that road, lol!
I just finished reading Eleanor Oliphant is completely and I was absolutely engrossed in it and I highly enjoyed it. I remembered that you once made a review about it so I thought of coming back and checking the video again. And I have to say that I am disappointed that you didn't enjoy it as much but I also agree with you that the characterization of Eleanor was a bit unrealistic and unbelievable at times and the trauma was so much to bear throughout the book. Still, I thought Honeyman's writing style was really good and cozy in its own way.
Convenience Store Woman sounds very interesting! I'll definitely be picking that up some time.
It's really interesting and a quick read, so definitely worth checking out if you're interested :)
Omg yes you hit it on the nose with Eleanor Oliphant. You articulated just what I thought. 👍🏼😀
Thanks!
I love this video, Claire! I haven't read Convenience Store Woman, but I immediately put it on my TBR (and I'm going to read it soon). The way you described it sounds SO Japanese. I believe that your comparison of the two books is quite apt because the differences that you described seem largely cultural and both authors are examining the trappings of the social ideals in their own societies. It seems that Murata is looking at the idealistic view of conformity that is part of Japanese culture, whereas Honeyman is looking at the idealistic view of individualism that we have in the West. Your comparison shows that too much of either one (conformity or individuality) can be quite poisonous to a person's life.
I quite liked Eleanor Oliphant. I didn't read her ignorance of certain social norms as sincere. I read them more as tongue-in-cheek observations and I often found them hilarious. Of course, it also demonstrated how much disdain she had for other people, which is often the case with people who believe they are outcasts. The intense focus on her psychology was indicative of how crazy we can get after we've been in our own heads for too long. For me, it wasn't the trauma itself that I found to be over-the-top or melodramatic, the trauma was realistic to me. It was how the trauma was revealed. That part felt like it was lifted straight out of a soap opera script, but it didn't ruin to book for me.
Great discussion! Thanks for the video.
Thanks so much, Amy! The more I read contemporary Japanese fiction, the more I feel like I'm getting a better handle on it and a better understanding of the different styles and techniques that authors use (I was reading some reviews for Convenience Store Woman and found one where the reviewer described recent Japanese literary trends as favoring a very simple, "flat" prose style, which helped put the style of CSW into context for me-I'm not sure if you'd agree with that, but I found it interesting). And yes, the subtle cultural differences were so apparent the more I was working on prepping this video-and I think reading Convenience Store Woman as a person raised on American individualism added another interesting layer to my reading and really made me think hard about what the book was saying in terms of good and bad forms of conformity and nonconformity, as well as what Murata was saying about the pleasures and perils of finding your place as a functioning and "useful" member of society. So many interesting things to think about!
And I love your thoughts on Eleanor Oliphant-you make a great point about her disdain for other people and how that, even more than social awkwardness, maybe hindered her from having more normal interactions with others. And I would also agree that the drawn-out reveal of the trauma was my least favorite part of that storyline-it felt very cheap and manipulative to me. :/
Thank you for replying so thoughtfully. I don't read a lot of Japanese fiction, but I'm looking forward to Convenience Store Woman.
Oh I loved this book , childhood trauma affects people as adults in so many ways.
Very glad to hear your thoughts on Eleanor - it seemed that everyone loved it. I thought that trauma wasn't used well, and as it was supposed to be more of a mystery element, I think that it wasn't surprising, and didn't like it as a plot point. Eleanor also felt flat to me, especially in examples such as the beer and the glass example, and the inconsistency.
Yeah, I didn't think the mystery was all that surprising and almost made the trauma element of the book feel a bit cheap :/
Not sure I agree with the review on Eleanor Oliphant but opinions I guess. Loved the review on the convenience store book and now have that on my list.
Convenience Store Woman is definitely worth checking out! :)
Does anyone have a copy of convenience store woman they can lend me?
I am surprised that you did not like the character of Eleanor. Her inconsistencies, her basic personality is a result of abuse and her suicide attempt proves it. People like this exist, they live within their own minds and create an actual world of benign irregularities and odd quirks of personalities just to survive. The character of Raymond could not have been any sweeter but his true beauty was that he saw the real Eleanor when he gave her the battered cat as her own. Her kindness to that cat and to Raymond's mom and he old man who got hit by the car was Eleanor's heart, her problem is in my opinion is that she doesn't trust her own thoughts and questions them to much instead of just feeling them and acting upon them, which is a clear sign she suffered abuse.
Thank you , I couldn't agree more ❤️
I love Eleanor and the writing
Excellent. Loved your perception & observations. Now I will happily think of all convenience stores as "capitalist utopias" (!) I've been thinking about what i call "bro books" in which a bright, quirky, but misunderstood & somewhat awkward SWM ventures into the world overcoming obstacles (working on examples, maybe Suttree, The Recognitions, The Lost Scrapbook ...). I wonder if these are the female versions of those? I really am curious about where you were going at 10:17 when you so rudely cut yourself off :o) & haven't kitten heels been replaced by flats?
Japanese convenience stores (based on a quick Google search) seem pretty great! Kind of like American convenience stores on steroids? And maybe these are the female versions of those SWM books...and Convenience Store Woman touches on some interesting gender dynamics, too, in a way that maybe offers some additional insights about misunderstood single women... And haha, I think I said something like "no fucking duh!" but decided to cut it out because my grandma watches sometimes, and I didn't want to offend her with too many swears in one video ;)
Thank you for these reviews. I have not read Convenience Store Woman, but will put it in my tbr. I did not get on well with Eleanor. She was just not a believable character to me.
I don't agree with your view of the book, you may feel that it is unreal to have a mother like Eleanor, but believe you me they exist. And it is not far fetched for her to not know how to behave in certain circumstances because if you spend most your time alone you can't be expected to know what to some may seem obvious.
I respectfully completely disagree with your review of Eleanor as a believable character. The reason I loved this book so much was because Honeyman finally created a character that a misfit, learning disabled individual, socially inept person can relate to. I saw so many characteristics as believable bc I've seen those in a loved one of mine. I think maybe you yourself just haven't experienced people like her. When people are isolated and don' really get out, they behave exactly like Eleanor. The beer and glass example is key. She is so stuck in what she knows, that the concept of putting beer into a glass is foreign to her because she was never exposed to it. Maybe it just resonated with me so much because I've grown up with someone very much like Eleanor and I loved seeing her as a character in a book.
I wish the mother character had been developed more but I guess the author didn't want to give the plot away. Same for the mysterious sister who isn't in the picture much.
I felt the same about Eleanors character One minute she was very perceptive about aspects of society the next she didnt have a clue about very basic things I felt the author was in some situations trying for humour at the expense of character Having said this I did enjoy the book although I felt it was slightly too long
Yeah, I agree with all of that, but I can definitely see how people connected to the book and liked/loved it.
The Review of the Oliphant Book is on point
Thanks!
Eleanor Oliphant was very problematic to me and I am still confused as to why SO many people love it.
Yeah, there were definitely parts of it that kind of rubbed me the wrong way, too :/
Which parts did you find problematic?
Again I completely agree with your review. I attempted Eleanor Oliphant and had to stop. Totally unbelievable and inconsistent.
I probably should have DNF'ed it as well! haha
Yep. Total bullshit.
I hated "Convenience Store Woman" - it was so frustrating. And she doesnt grow into anything, doesnt change, she ends where she started.
Eleanor Oliphant on the other hand - she gets better and at least starts resolving her problems. It was so satisfying.
I just started reading Eleanor Oliphant and reached till scene where she goes to salon, and I was just😖😤 and I DNFed it. I don't like such scenes!
Before I even watch this video, just gotta leave a comment saying (or screaming), "OH MY GOD, I JUST STARTED CONVENIENCE STORE WOMAN AND THOUGHT IT'S SO MUCH LIKE ELEANOR OLIPHANT, AND THEN THIS VIDEO POPS UP!!" *clicks play*
That's too funny! The more I was working on prepping this video, the more I realized how different these books actually are, but I'm glad I'm not the only person who saw some initial similarities (at least in terms of their premises), haha :)
I found Eleanor Oliphant very disturbing. Even more disturbing to me was that so many people found it funny.
Yeah, it was a lot darker than I had anticipated-and I think certain aspects of Eleanor's character/observations were meant to be funny, but the humor in the book didn't always land for me.
my mum sent me this review because we thought we were the only people who thought eleanor oliphant was really problematic as well as frankly badly written - eleanor didn't feel at all like a real person, just like a caricature of how the author expects trauma victims/"outsiders" to behave - her complete lack of understanding of the world was barely funny and mostly just seemed like an odd joke that never really found its consistency ...! thank you for your empathetic and reasonable criticism xx
Thanks so much, Ray! You are definitely not alone (and nice to hear that you and your mom have great bookish discussions together!) :)
Preach!! And if her inconsistencies are that intense, then she has SEVERE issues and should get a little more than counseling. We are to accept that her PTSD has lead her into a 20 year schizophrenic vortex which she resolves with a few sessions of counseling? I work in behavioral health - I really wish it was that easy. Even if you don’t have a background in behavioral health, it’s common sense that this woman is either a delusional sociopath and would not be capable with functioning and performing well in at a 9-5, or she is just a plainly unrealistic character.
Eleanor is an unreliable narrator. We should question how much is to be believed, the way Raymond doubted Eleanor''s recounting of her mother's incredible past. Recall that Eleanor read a book which she characterized as being written for psychopaths with no common sense. That was Honeyman dropping a very big hint. The author has succeeded in floating a massive balloon past her readership that, I hope, a sequel will reveal!
"Patriarchal beauty standards(?)" Don't blame us- you're the ones doing it, lol. Am I putting the lip gloss on your face? Constantly playing the victim is not good for you.
I quit Eleanor about 20 pages in. Rubbish.