Dad helped create the original Minimoog. He watched this video and wanted to add this comment: "FYI 53 years since Bob (Moog) Bill (Hemsath) and I designed it, the Mini continues on. Far beyond our expectations. I predicted in a memo to Bob (now lost) in 1970 it would become a music industry standard. But to this degree? No way. The secret sonic sauce here is the VCA (not the VCF!). I derived the Mini VCA circuit from Bob's 1964 902 modular design. The simplified circuit has a lot of components removed in the interests of cutting cost - at the expense of allowing increased distortion. By then choosing to deliberately heavily overdrive the VCF/VCA I quite accidentally greatly enhanced the spectral sound quality. No designer in the next 50 years appreciated the contribution of the lowly VCA, and thus for 5 decades the Mini stood alone with its famous fat sound. (Bill) Hemsath in more than one disposition has commented I made a miscalculation in overdriving the Mini VCF/VCA. Not so! I did it on purpose to improve the signal to noise ratio. In any case Bill exclaimed in 1970 "whatever you do, don't change it" after he first heard the first Model C prototype. The Mini VCA fits my motto, "perfection is boring". Jim Scott"
Thanks ever so much for taking the time to write this, it's really given me quite a buzz to hear your father's watched this video. I feel honoured!... truly!!! - and FYI I'll spread where I can to put the record straight.
This was awesome to read! Thanks for sharing! So cool to hear from one of the original creators!!! Thanks a lot Jim! What a wonderful gift you gave to the world!
We love this and thanks for taking to post, Jim! Tim Caswell realized many years ago just how crucial the sound of your modified '64 902 VCA was to the Mini-so we didn't change it either. Heaven forbid! Pure genius & Secret Sauce indeed. Respect & love from SE. Best, Marc St. Regis Greg St. Regis
I'm with you on this one, I mean I bought one too for the same reasons and I love it. One little trick : patch a short cable from OSC1 out to EXT IN and rise the FBCK GAIN knob to max, then make a patch using just OSC 1. It sounds amazing. Add AMP DRIVE for a more dramatic effect. Not the classic dirty sound you'd expect from feedback, more like a high quality, soft saturation synth sound, something you get from expensive studio gear.
Thanks for finally giving this synth the demo and review it deserves. I recently bought one somewhat on faith, as there are criminally few demos out there -- and those that do exist typically emphasize harder sounds with the amp drive & feedback. But I wanted a capable rack-mountable mono with a WYSIWYG interface that wasn't a cheap Behringer, and given SE's reputation I was confident that it wouldn't disappoint. Indeed, it does not disappoint. Pricey, but not really more so than it would cost to build a comparable modular case. This isn't just a luxury item, it's a absolutely rock-solid dependable studio work horse.
You always know how to make a synth sound like it's something I gotta have. Now I'm dreamin about how sexy this would look and sound racked up with a black Fusebox.
SE kit has been a "secret weapon" for top producers and studios for a long time. Same all by hand ultra component and build quality as the current mini. A number of synths get close to "this" classic set of sounds - the extra capabilities here are fantastic as well. However, this is dead spot on. Grandmother/Matriarch and 37 resonance and envelopes are a bit different and there is less headroom. Model D and SE02 (unsurprisingly) are REALLY close. For those who do place a high priority on ultra quality is the price really that bad? Given it covers all the minimoog sound space to perfection and adds a TON to it while still having the greatest monosynth interface (plus the extras) of all time the price for hand built through hole ultra components seems a bit low if anything...
Haha… I never want to take any risks when batteries are running and memory cards are filling up. And I can mix everything into everything else… and I don’t have to learn any other scales 😂
like the cost warning near the start so i know to mentally file it under 'fantasy fantasy' rather than 'maaaaaybe fantasy' 😅 If you get a chance to have a look at the Behringer Pro-800 would be wunderbar as this is the poly around my mostly-guitarist synth budget
Great video, Starsky! 👍 Since I saw this Midimini at the Superbooth, my desire for the Moog Re-Issue has decreased significantly! But next time, I would also like to have the drums done with the featured synth, Bitte!! 🤖
If I had the money and space (and a gear rack) I'd get the SE-3X in a heartbeat over a MidiMini v30, though. That'd probably be the only synth to replace my SE-02 (it even has the SE-02 envelopes now).
£3.5k poof! Gone! That’s an awesome sounding bad boy! I saw it at Superbooth this year and now so glad I just walked on by their booth!!! It’s a beast.
Thanks for the beautiful demo and excellent presentation. This is how real synths should sound like IMO. You've got me drooling. How does the sound compare to Midimoogs or earlier Midiminis ? More stable/accurate feel and a wider tonal palette, amirite ?
6:09 Not that I'd ever be able to buy one of these in a million years but just maybe the pots are scratchy feeling because they're wirewound and not carbon track. I'm hoping that's the case but feel free to slap me down if I don't know what I'm talking about haha
Possibly, if you pause in that paragraph it will tell you. .. the more expensive pots use lighter grease which is why they feel ‘scrapey’ … their words not mine.
Great to see a Studio Electronics synth in action. So few get used in reviews on YT. Maybe you can get your hands on the (much better to me) SE-3X some day!
6:08 i was also curious about it and spoke on the phone with a St. Regis about the difference in feel of those pots. the different feel/glide is intentional & it's consistent across each V30 model
Yeah it’s all in that paragraph. The expensive pots have lighter grease which is why they feel scrapey (their words). It was almost the first thing I noticed.
After playing one today, am debating returning the Model D for one and saving a couple of Gs. Definitely sounded much closer to the D than the SE-3X as the latter’s envelopes didn’t seem to go fast enough at the lowest ms settings.
It is lovely but to put it in perspective it is 14x the price of the behringer model d.... is it 14x better? I could not justify paying that much more for it.
I was considering getting a model D RI but simply just can't trust Moog QC, especially at that price point. On top of that the USA company is essentially gone so warranty support is likely nill. Its down to a vintage midimini or the new V30. I trust the build quality and SE.
I had an intermittent fault with my reissue mm but luckily I got it on video as they couldn’t find problem. On my 3rd S37 and my GM is in for a new pitchbend circuit. I still support the company but QC is always something to keep an eye on with every manufacturer. I’m on my second SE-1 (sold the first when I bought the mini) and have an ATC-X and the V30 - no problems with any of them.
15:04 cheeky! The pain of recognizing but not remembering the name of the track. I'm thinking Daft Punk. But then again I may be thinking Daft Punk, just because I love thinking Daft Punk. I like this one, but with this price-tag it's a clear case of window-shopping for me.
It was originally release the beast by breakwater and sampled by Daft Punk on Robot Rock. Worth listening to the original to see 1. How the daft punk track is essentially the intro to release the beast with a beat in top and 2. What a genius idea placing a beat on top of the intro to release the beast was!
I suspect that the ring mod only works on the pulse waveforms is because it’s probably not an actual ring mod but a XOR gate, just like the Odyssey and the MS-20.
Not my cup of tea, (no mono without presets is )...let alone one that costs the same as decent car! BUT but I understand why this is dream for many people...& certainly concede it is a lovely piece of kit! ......Thanks for the run through......( I was actually more interested in the re-202 😮....plus I can actually afford one of those😊)
Hiya buddy awesome video. to your knowledge is there a analogue poly synth which is equally as good for bass sounds as it is for poly sounds. the ones i have purchased so far like the Deepmind and the Elektron analog keys have a terrible roll off in the bottom end which totally ruins the sound in my opinion.
It’s a difficult one.. things like the pro-one have extra drive in the circuits to add more beef than the p5 for example. Whether that takes away from the bass though I’m not sure. People complain about the Moog one doing the same (although there are workarounds). I really like the sound of the VCOs on the Korg Minilogue XD, OBX8 and Prophet 5 but must admit I’ve not really tested them for bass.
@@StarskyCarr I have a dreadbox nymphes which is just about right as far as bass is concerned for a poly synth. it's not quite thunderous like a mono synth but its not exactly thin sounding like a Behringer Deepmind or a Elektron analog keys etc etc. I know you have had a lot of decent synths throughout the years plus a nymphes to your knowledge does a Prophet Rev2 or a take 5 have a similar low end.
given the state of moog and the quality issues i would rather buy this, at least SE cares and what they dont know about the minimoog probably aint worth knowing.
It sets the modulation source that’s controlled with the mod wheel. It can be the digital LFO or the LFO blended with either noise or VCO3. It ranges from 0-100% ie all LFO to a blend or just Osc3 or noise.
I guess angling it halves the amount of internal space, but that's a great idea from an ergonomics point of view - M3X looks equally suitable as a desktop or rackmount unit.
That’s a difficult one. The 2600 is more flexible overall - lots more patch points etc. and depending on what version you buy it’s a lot bigger! But you can’t go wrong with either.
After such review you can easily understand - this synth is priced for a reason. But with such a wide sound pallette far exceeding the minimoog territory I think it needs a preset system of some sort.
You could always look at the SE3x or the SE1x they’re built in the same foundations but with presets. … and cheaper! They’re not quite as obsessively vintage in the circuitry.
The aesthetic of pairing an Auturia key step with all these boutique synth modules is not very inspiring. I’d rather just have a Moog Grandmother, if they were reliable. Hopefully Akai’s acquisition of Moog will beef up the quality and consistency of their units.
The arturias are great for fitting in the shot! But you’re right about the GM. Mine was only a few months old when the filter pot developed a dead spot. They happily sent a replacement etc, but perhaps fiancés didn’t allow for top notch pots like you get on this. So yeah inmusic can hopefully set that right.
Dad helped create the original Minimoog. He watched this video and wanted to add this comment:
"FYI
53 years since Bob (Moog) Bill (Hemsath) and I designed it, the Mini continues on. Far beyond our expectations. I predicted in a memo to Bob (now lost) in 1970 it would become a music industry standard. But to this degree? No way.
The secret sonic sauce here is the VCA (not the VCF!). I derived the Mini VCA circuit from Bob's 1964 902 modular design. The simplified circuit has a lot of components removed in the interests of cutting cost - at the expense of allowing increased distortion. By then choosing to deliberately heavily overdrive the VCF/VCA I quite accidentally greatly enhanced the spectral sound quality. No designer in the next 50 years appreciated the contribution of the lowly VCA, and thus for 5 decades the Mini stood alone with its famous fat sound.
(Bill) Hemsath in more than one disposition has commented I made a miscalculation in overdriving the Mini VCF/VCA. Not so! I did it on purpose to improve the signal to noise ratio. In any case Bill exclaimed in 1970 "whatever you do, don't change it" after he first heard the first Model C prototype.
The Mini VCA fits my motto, "perfection is boring".
Jim Scott"
Thanks ever so much for taking the time to write this, it's really given me quite a buzz to hear your father's watched this video. I feel honoured!... truly!!! - and FYI I'll spread where I can to put the record straight.
This was awesome to read! Thanks for sharing! So cool to hear from one of the original creators!!! Thanks a lot Jim! What a wonderful gift you gave to the world!
We love this and thanks for taking to post, Jim! Tim Caswell realized many years ago just how crucial the sound of your modified '64 902 VCA was to the Mini-so we didn't change it either. Heaven forbid!
Pure genius & Secret Sauce indeed. Respect & love from SE.
Best,
Marc St. Regis
Greg St. Regis
Studio Electronics truly are luxury model synth manufacturers - AND they are awesome people on top of it!
You know you’re dealing with quality design and hardware when the sound coming out feels like it’s filling every space in your ears.
Your track around 24min
Is your best yet
Excellent
Love how the delay just loses the tempo and dissolves
Good job Sir!
That first jam was gorgeous! Sounds were lovely, but what a sweetly swung arpeggiated chord sequence! 👌
Right?? SO good!
Sounds like Cafe Del Mar but even better than that. Or something Jan Hammer would come up with
I'm with you on this one, I mean I bought one too for the same reasons and I love it.
One little trick : patch a short cable from OSC1 out to EXT IN and rise the FBCK GAIN knob to max, then make a patch using just OSC 1. It sounds amazing. Add AMP DRIVE for a more dramatic effect. Not the classic dirty sound you'd expect from feedback, more like a high quality, soft saturation synth sound, something you get from expensive studio gear.
Great review. Awesome synth. This and the SE3X are fantastic monos! Love both of mine. SE make amazing kit.
Thanks for finally giving this synth the demo and review it deserves. I recently bought one somewhat on faith, as there are criminally few demos out there -- and those that do exist typically emphasize harder sounds with the amp drive & feedback. But I wanted a capable rack-mountable mono with a WYSIWYG interface that wasn't a cheap Behringer, and given SE's reputation I was confident that it wouldn't disappoint. Indeed, it does not disappoint. Pricey, but not really more so than it would cost to build a comparable modular case. This isn't just a luxury item, it's a absolutely rock-solid dependable studio work horse.
Thirty seconds into the demo and I'm already thinking "That's a darned nice sounding synth !" :-D
That’s because it’s a darned nice sounding synth!
You always know how to make a synth sound like it's something I gotta have. Now I'm dreamin about how sexy this would look and sound racked up with a black Fusebox.
I love that you went to Kill Bill with that glide, but my mind went right to Look Around You.
Expensive, yes. Beautiful sounding, yes. Reasonably priced considering trough hole design, build quality and components, yes. Do I want one, big YES
SE kit has been a "secret weapon" for top producers and studios for a long time. Same all by hand ultra component and build quality as the current mini. A number of synths get close to "this" classic set of sounds - the extra capabilities here are fantastic as well. However, this is dead spot on. Grandmother/Matriarch and 37 resonance and envelopes are a bit different and there is less headroom. Model D and SE02 (unsurprisingly) are REALLY close. For those who do place a high priority on ultra quality is the price really that bad? Given it covers all the minimoog sound space to perfection and adds a TON to it while still having the greatest monosynth interface (plus the extras) of all time the price for hand built through hole ultra components seems a bit low if anything...
Starsky, love your eternal devotion to the key of Cm!!! :)
Haha… I never want to take any risks when batteries are running and memory cards are filling up. And I can mix everything into everything else… and I don’t have to learn any other scales 😂
@@unclemick-synths now that's genius!
Sounds better than my Behringer Model D.
like the cost warning near the start so i know to mentally file it under 'fantasy fantasy' rather than 'maaaaaybe fantasy' 😅
If you get a chance to have a look at the Behringer Pro-800 would be wunderbar as this is the poly around my mostly-guitarist synth budget
Haha… just like the Lamborghini 😂 A pro-800 is on its way!!
Great video, Starsky! 👍 Since I saw this Midimini at the Superbooth, my desire for the Moog Re-Issue has decreased significantly! But next time, I would also like to have the drums done with the featured synth, Bitte!! 🤖
Haha not a chance… takes far too long!
Excellent review of an awesome synth. A bit out of my price range, though. I have an SE-02 and love it, seriously underrated and overlooked synth.
If I had the money and space (and a gear rack) I'd get the SE-3X in a heartbeat over a MidiMini v30, though. That'd probably be the only synth to replace my SE-02 (it even has the SE-02 envelopes now).
"Mehhh.... it's ok.... I guess.... whatever...." I tell myself because it's gorgeous and I'll probably never own one 😆
😂
£3.5k poof! Gone! That’s an awesome sounding bad boy! I saw it at Superbooth this year and now so glad I just walked on by their booth!!! It’s a beast.
Great one, this synth sounds fantastic! thanks for the video.
That was some instant orbital stuff at the beginning!
I'm getting good at this price guessing, I said £3500. I do this now before watching anything, saves heartbreak at the end!
Thanks for the beautiful demo and excellent presentation. This is how real synths should sound like IMO. You've got me drooling.
How does the sound compare to Midimoogs or earlier Midiminis ? More stable/accurate feel and a wider tonal palette, amirite ?
If I could justify it, I would take one of these over the Moog Reissue every time. Put it in a nice custom walnut rack case from mixingtable 😗👌
Great sequence!
This beast seems awesome!!! Great video.
6:09 Not that I'd ever be able to buy one of these in a million years but just maybe the pots are scratchy feeling because they're wirewound and not carbon track.
I'm hoping that's the case but feel free to slap me down if I don't know what I'm talking about haha
Possibly, if you pause in that paragraph it will tell you. .. the more expensive pots use lighter grease which is why they feel ‘scrapey’ … their words not mine.
My favorite Mini-Non-Moog.
Great to see a Studio Electronics synth in action. So few get used in reviews on YT. Maybe you can get your hands on the (much better to me) SE-3X some day!
I’ve made a demo of the SE-1X with the new firmware chip. So it’s the same as the SE3x but without the extra filters
Awesome opening choon!
6:08 i was also curious about it and spoke on the phone with a St. Regis about the difference in feel of those pots. the different feel/glide is intentional & it's consistent across each V30 model
Yeah it’s all in that paragraph. The expensive pots have lighter grease which is why they feel scrapey (their words). It was almost the first thing I noticed.
After playing one today, am debating returning the Model D for one and saving a couple of Gs. Definitely sounded much closer to the D than the SE-3X as the latter’s envelopes didn’t seem to go fast enough at the lowest ms settings.
Nice piece of kit!!
Strawberry moogs forever
great
It is lovely but to put it in perspective it is 14x the price of the behringer model d.... is it 14x better? I could not justify paying that much more for it.
starsky your audio sounds great man.
Thanks I’ve been looking for a decent solution for my voice for a while. Adobe AI is amazing and free at the mo
I was considering getting a model D RI but simply just can't trust Moog QC, especially at that price point. On top of that the USA company is essentially gone so warranty support is likely nill. Its down to a vintage midimini or the new V30. I trust the build quality and SE.
I had an intermittent fault with my reissue mm but luckily I got it on video as they couldn’t find problem. On my 3rd S37 and my GM is in for a new pitchbend circuit. I still support the company but QC is always something to keep an eye on with every manufacturer. I’m on my second SE-1 (sold the first when I bought the mini) and have an ATC-X and the V30 - no problems with any of them.
It has a little bit of the SE-02 sound 😊
I'm am se02 fan, a whole lot cheaper too
19:18 YES MATE
Seriously.... What kind of monster would do such thing.. To make switches that go on through downwards motion.. ;-)
Why does this remind me the very underrated Roland Boutique SE-02 so much ? (In manual mode and without the digital layer of the Roland)
That was Studio Electronics as well!
So is prob as close as you can get for reasonable price
Really expensive.
In the same idea, there's the NR Synth Retro One, for 1600 euros.
Nice find! Looks like the Retro One comes in its own 50cm case, rather than fitting in a 19" rack. On the plus side, variable pulse width and PWM!
15:04 cheeky! The pain of recognizing but not remembering the name of the track. I'm thinking Daft Punk. But then again I may be thinking Daft Punk, just because I love thinking Daft Punk.
I like this one, but with this price-tag it's a clear case of window-shopping for me.
It was originally release the beast by breakwater and sampled by Daft Punk on Robot Rock. Worth listening to the original to see 1. How the daft punk track is essentially the intro to release the beast with a beat in top and 2. What a genius idea placing a beat on top of the intro to release the beast was!
@@StarskyCarr will do
@ 11:46 is it possible tha you can giv that little demo to me ? I want to use it to tune some pa sound systems that we build up sometimes.
‘Cos you’re worth it
I suspect that the ring mod only works on the pulse waveforms is because it’s probably not an actual ring mod but a XOR gate, just like the Odyssey and the MS-20.
Yeah that had crossed my mind… the pulse does something similar as well to get a ring mod.
Sounds nice, not exactly like a Mini Moog, but it stands its ground
“Not exactly like a mini moog” to be fair no two vintage mini moogs sound exactly like each other.
Pretty much everything I try here is out of Minimoog territory but it sounds incredibly close (ie identical) doing the same stuff.
Exactly what is it that I do need?
GFY
Not my cup of tea, (no mono without presets is )...let alone one that costs the same as decent car! BUT but I understand why this is dream for many people...& certainly concede it is a lovely piece of kit! ......Thanks for the run through......( I was actually more interested in the re-202 😮....plus I can actually afford one of those😊)
luckily I've got you covered there as well ;)
czcams.com/video/vkzBO7mwYcg/video.html
A great machine for sure; (but) I doubt anyone could make great music on it they couldn't make on an Uli Model-D. And yeah maybe that's not the point.
Hiya buddy awesome video. to your knowledge is there a analogue poly synth
which is equally as good for bass sounds as it is for poly sounds. the ones
i have purchased so far like the Deepmind and the Elektron analog keys have
a terrible roll off in the bottom end which totally ruins the sound in my opinion.
It’s a difficult one.. things like the pro-one have extra drive in the circuits to add more beef than the p5 for example. Whether that takes away from the bass though I’m not sure. People complain about the Moog one doing the same (although there are workarounds). I really like the sound of the VCOs on the Korg Minilogue XD, OBX8 and Prophet 5 but must admit I’ve not really tested them for bass.
@@StarskyCarr
I have a dreadbox nymphes which is just about right as far as bass is concerned for
a poly synth. it's not quite thunderous like a mono synth but its not exactly thin sounding
like a Behringer Deepmind or a Elektron analog keys etc etc.
I know you have had a lot of decent synths throughout the years plus a nymphes
to your knowledge does a Prophet Rev2 or a take 5 have a similar low end.
that really nice but for us little people mr Carr what about the behringer pro 800?
It’s on order :)
given the state of moog and the quality issues i would rather buy this, at least SE cares and what they dont know about the minimoog probably aint worth knowing.
real newb question I guess, but why no sine wave on the osc?
Just not a Moog thing. You can create a sine by reducing the filter or playing just the filter.
Something to scare your neighbours with.
Instant GAS. What does modmix do exactly? The manual is not very clear on this. I wish they included a block diagram.
It sets the modulation source that’s controlled with the mod wheel. It can be the digital LFO or the LFO blended with either noise or VCO3. It ranges from 0-100% ie all LFO to a blend or just Osc3 or noise.
@@StarskyCarr So it's not routed to the LFO OUT patch point?
@@Bananskuden no that’s just the LFO
@@StarskyCarr Thanks, if I get it some day (my GAS says yes) I'll definitely make that block diagram.
Why not angle this unit like Ken MacBeth did with his M3X? Tbh, also the M3X sounds as good.
I guess angling it halves the amount of internal space, but that's a great idea from an ergonomics point of view - M3X looks equally suitable as a desktop or rackmount unit.
how would you compare this to the 2600 ?
That’s a difficult one. The 2600 is more flexible overall - lots more patch points etc. and depending on what version you buy it’s a lot bigger! But you can’t go wrong with either.
After such review you can easily understand - this synth is priced for a reason. But with such a wide sound pallette far exceeding the minimoog territory I think it needs a preset system of some sort.
You could always look at the SE3x or the SE1x they’re built in the same foundations but with presets. … and cheaper! They’re not quite as obsessively vintage in the circuitry.
2:34 it’s lush mate
4:46 that switch moved by itself…
0:58 Synth Nerds: That is what is known as a human female. Starsky let us see her for an entire .87 seconds🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂
Very deadmau5
Totally!
...just waiting to see how many people complain about companies cloning...
Haha
Sudley House maybe?
Calderstones 😀
No PWM??? Nick is disappointed 😄
I'll get the Uli clone. ;-)
OK - but then it'll sound like a different synth.
Very nice but too expensive for a Mini Moog sound. Behringer should make something like this for a reasonable price.
Yeah, lovely… (and yeah, I won’t be buying one 😊 )
The aesthetic of pairing an Auturia key step with all these boutique synth modules is not very inspiring. I’d rather just have a Moog Grandmother, if they were reliable. Hopefully Akai’s acquisition of Moog will beef up the quality and consistency of their units.
The arturias are great for fitting in the shot! But you’re right about the GM. Mine was only a few months old when the filter pot developed a dead spot. They happily sent a replacement etc, but perhaps fiancés didn’t allow for top notch pots like you get on this. So yeah inmusic can hopefully set that right.
its a $4k+ Behringer Model D
Hope Behringer make a clone xD
w
o
w
Hmm, a minmioog or a prophet 10..
Both
None of them. ;-)
A SE-02
when in doubt, always go with sequential.
For that kind of money, give me a Deckard's Dream, not some up-jumped monosynth. Even if I have to solder and assemble the damned thing myself.
Your track around 24min
Is your best yet
Excellent
Love how the delay just loses the tempo and dissolves
Good job Sir!