Best Allied SMG of WW2? (Owen vs Thompson vs Grease Gun)
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Even I learned a thing or two while making this thoroughly gunpilled episode with the Owen, Thompson and Grease Gun duking it out to see which was the best Allied SMG of WW2.
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00:00 Intro
02:17 Hill People Gear
02:52 SMG History
08:18 Sights & Open Bolt “Lurch”
10:00 Reloading & Controls
13:50 Handling Characteristics
20:10 Overall Comparison
24:49 The BEST & WORST SMG
27:33 GOAT Guns
27:51 Gun ASMR
29:36 QOTD
30:50 Close
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#armandgun #ww2guns #owengun - Sport
Always as an Australian gonna be proud of the Owen gun. I only know of one other gun that is reputed to be as reliable/tough and that's the AK. It's why I like to call it the AK of smgs.
The fact that it was created by a talented young kid is just amazing.
It was used right up into the Vietnam war by the Australian Army, so they must have thought highly of it.
To right mate and you know what’s funny I’m Australian too and my middle name is Owen 😁
Well the Owen Gun was used and very useful not just in New Guinea during World War Two but also the Malay Emergency and most importantly during the Vietnam War where it was a favored Black market special often swapped for other items of value by US Special forces and LRRP people because the owen could be dumped into a muddy pool and jumped on and then brought up to the waist or shoulder and it just continued to work a life saving aspect was it's real world reliability that cannot be overemphasized when literally life depends on it
During WW2, the Australian army, who were not fans of the Owen, did tests comparing the Owen to the Thompson and the sten. The Owen came out on top, and worked even when they dropped it in the mud and with mud in the magazine. The Owen almost wins on every count: Light, works in all conditions, fast ROF, you can select your rate of fire, good sights, easy to change barrel, accurate, easy to change mag, easy to manufacture, cheap to make, Shoots 9mm rounds, so common ammo.
how were you able to select the rate of fire? slightly confused there
@@badgeronmars It had a switch that would either catch the bolt as it rturned after firing after one shot, or not catch it and let it go full auto.
there's a animation of hot it works here
czcams.com/video/_5kW4sKd-sQ/video.html
@@badgeronmars the sten gun had a swith for single shot/auto as well.
Interesting point . General MacArthur wanted to issue Owens guns to his American troops . Americans would try to get their hands on an Owen at any opportunity. The push back came from the Thompson manufactures . They had too much political clout. They blocked the use of Owen guns by the US Army .
I'd have to take the Owen, if it was good enough for my great uncle, its good enough for me.
The Owen was still being used by Aussie forces in Vietnam twenty years after WW2.
Used the F1 submachine gun back in 1987 to 88 when they were starting to be phased out of the Australian army. When firing they had a strong tendency to kick up and right, you really had to keep forcing the gun back down. I was told the Owen gun was a superior gun.
I just love the simplistic look of the Owen, great gun too
I think the M3’s service life speaks for itself
Yes
Right.... so it wasn't worth replacing
Sorry to bring Insurgency Sandstorm into this, but the M3 with that advanced suppressor is king in my opinion. Fast enough to be effective, slow enough to put just the right amount of lead into grumpy, and cheap enough to mass produce it much like the abundance of condoms on the market today and a service history that will baffle most. The M3 grease gun, the american submachine gun version of the AK-47. Just beautiful.
no, they were too slow & inaccurate, esp if you've handled/fired Thompsons. some bean counter dumped them into US armored vehicles as a last ditch survival weapon, instead of a pistol. They dirty up fast, dust & sand ruining them. Saying they are an equal to the AK is ludicrous
no no no, esp the AK comment. there were thousand in armored vehicles into the 80s... NEVER saw one with a suppressor - are you talking video games? I'm talking 27x years 19D & 11B@@dingus5565
you literally cannot go wrong with an Owen.
it's a shame that the australian military hated it despite its success and love on the ground. spite is a nasty thing.
Who said it was hated by the Australian military?
@@gone547 the troops loved it. brass not so much. wanted their own gun and tried to stop the owen from getting in until forced to be given a fair chance by the government.
The Owen was universally loved by Australians!
@@johnsteele2986 made a reply to another person going into more detail about it.
I’d go with the Owen any day
That's what I'm sayin
the owen:the gun that looks like it shouldnt work but somehow does
Same.
Thanks bro
Got gravity on its side/top? (Shooting prone is handy too?).
i think the reason the owen gun isn’t as popular in culture is because it’s australian. you don’t see many australian perspectives in movies and video games set in WW2.
I went to Lithgow Small Arms Museum earlier this year. Saw several Owens, even an F1 and loads of Lee Enfields plus many other firearms. Great little museum.
The Tommy gun is really built to last, but for the logistics that come with an army, the Owen wins. It's also lighter and more reliable in humid climates.
I spoke to Aussie 3RAR Korean War ,Kapyong vets when I was a member of that Battalion .They told me the 9mm Owen didn't like the winter warfare in Korea. Brit SAS also used it in Malaya .
All the SMGs for Aussie infantry got replaced in favour of the M16 during Vietnam. SMGs F1s were used by non Infantry units like Armour Vehicle crews etc until they got Steyr Carbines.
answer to question: I'd pick the Garand because I'm a single brain celled Rifleman always and it's easier and lighter to carry and use
Garand ≠ light
The only things that the Garand is a problem is it is a long heavy rifle. 30.06 rounds with clips adds to the weight. This is where the modern rifles have it over the ones of old.. plus full auto capability. But a Garand can still make enemies thing twice especially at long ranges. Topping up a clip will give you plenty of firepower to lay down. I would still go into jungle and thick bush with a M1 carbine.
Here's a funny thing about the Owen: 'The Owen Gun Story' references a prototype successfully tested chambered in .30 Carbine.
The also made prototypes in .38 (hypothetically also in 357 Mag had that been a thing) and the aforementioned .455 Webley and .45ACP.
The .455 would've been an unpleasant weapon to be on the receiving end of.
Here's the other thing about the Owen, by accident or design, its optimised for firing on your guts by a right hander, something every CZcamsr has completely skipped over.
where do you find this?
@@thewindowsmaaaneThere have been a few books published on the Owen gun, at the moment there are 2 advertised for sale on ebay. The Owen Gun by Wayne Wardman, it's the complete history of the gun, 200 + pages hard back with dust cover, a very good read. The second is the Small Arms Identification Series by Ian Skennerton which features the mark 1 Owen and Austen guns, it's just 50 pages , soft cover. It's more of a technical publication with exploded view's and parts listings with a brief overview. I can recommend both.
The bolt hold open on the Thompson isn't for knowing when you run out, rather reloading easier, if there was no bolt hold open you would know easier because the bolt would close.
The Owen gun was the best SMG to take into Jungle or Desert conditions
The Grease Gun, that thing chugs along like a sewing machine and is so satisfying to shoot and seeing it fired makes me smile
Until you drop it in mud, then it stops firing. None of the other SMGs can match the OMC for reliability
I've shot all three. The Owen was hands down the best for it's day in the conditions the Australians had to fight. It looks weird but you can fire it from a prone position, it doesn't get easily snagged like the clips on the Sten/Sterling's, and anything that may fall into it from the top just falls out the bottom. It looks wonky but is very controllable due to the great grips which were better than the WW2 Thompson (but about the same as the 1920's Thompson). The first Sten SMG guns had the worst handling as far as I'm concerned but they were incredibly easy to make and maintain. According to my uncle, they were typically modified in the field to give them actual grips.
Great video! I am such a nerd for old guns
Me too 👍
But the most new guns are boring
One other element of the M3 is there was a second barrel and breach component in 9mm. Which means that the weapon could be quickly converted to 9mm, and the magazine could also accept MP40 magazines and ammo.
I carried a grease gun on a couple of FTXs in the mid 1980s. Simple and rugged are good traits.
For Allied weapons there's a lot to be said for the M1 carbine.
As a civilian, I owned both M1 Garand and M1 carbine. These rifles are probably the greatest rifles of WW2 IMO... I love them both. I would have no qualms in using them today in battle. for close combat jungle work or close urban I would go with the carbine,, it is just so light and handy.. can lay down shit loads of lead even with one hand...
What happened to the Sten?
The complete lack of ergonomics is what happened to the Sten. The best and easiest way to hold the gun would ultimately end up damaging it and causing malfunctions.
Bad design..... The magazine is the most obvious place to hold it, so lots of soldiers did, but if you held it on the mag it jammed and wore out a certain component in the mechanism.
I agree. It was easy to make, in a good calibre. Of the SMG's, it was the only one (to my knowledge) that carried on in service into the '80's as the last iteration with the Stirling. Not having it on the list feels like invalidation to me.
6:15 now you killin', now you aint.
Great movie.
Aussie soldiers who came back from the Pacific said that some American soldiers would swap their 'Grease Guns' for the Owen whenever they could.
lovin the content id prolly pick outta the SMGs the owen but in general either the enfield or the M1 Garand
The Owen gun proves itself deep in the wet, cold and muddy jungles of Borneo. Being very easy to use and rarely jams, it is not long for local tribes to use it against the communist in the Malayan Emergency and Konfrontasi.
The Owen Gun was the most reliable out of all those guns and was the only one with a fire select...
Lmfao tommy has semi auto as well...did you not watch the video. And I wouldn't call it most reliable
I happen to own both a M3 Grease gun and a 1928 Thompson and they are both very reliable. And the Thompson has select fire. The M3 shoots so slow you can easily fire it in semi.
I would go the Owen 1 because I am a Ozzie and 2 its just different and cool and my dad used to live in the city where it came from
I would still use the Thompson, I love .45ACP and its gorgeous
As a hardcore thompson fanboi, I'll accept that wrong answer.
@@armandgun its not wrong, but it ain't correct, it's partially correct
The real answer is the Owen gun
@@Bmuenks31 Yes and that's ultimately the conclusion I came to at the end of the vid. Though in the scenario of a collector/recreational shooter, my answer would change.
@@armandgun Your collection demands respect, as well as your objectivity and practicality when discussing the firearms.
In my humble opinion, I would take the M3. It's controllabe especially for someone with a total lack of full auto experience such as myself, its very user friendly, relatively lightweight, and an iconic and effective cartridge. The only modification I would make is drilling a larger peep hole, like GIs did back then. Otherwise, to me it doesn't get much better. You could put that weapon in the hands of just about anyone and it would make them an effective combatant. I suppose you could say that about the Owen, but I would argue the M3's cartridge has more potential as a heavy combat cartridge.
Grease gun or Garand all the way, you probably know why with the Garand + its a good gun to use in a bit further range, and the the grease gun is just a fun gun to rattle away with
I agree, the thing that I don't like about the Owen is the magazine and sight placement, plus I will take the.45 ACP over the 9mm because of takedown! I grew up near a military base and I hung out with veterans and they told me that when trained with the Thompson because of the heavy lift of the.45 cal bullet they were trained to hold it sideways to sweep!
It rattles until you drop it in mud or sand. Do you want to stay alive, then get an OMC. Don't believe me? Then check the reports by the US, Canadian, British and Australian armies which texted these guns plus the Sten. The OMC won hands down. The others were unreliable except in a recently vacuum cleaned room, so to speak. It doesn't stop at reliability. Ease of use and maintainability were also major factors.
The Sten was a cheap piece of junk. The grease gun was a little bit better. The thompson was over priced and no match for the OMC.
If you've seen experiments with the owen, being dipped in mud, sand, dirt with a variety of other SMGs...and the Owen ignores it while all the others wouldn't fire and needed serious cleaning to work. Amazing SMG
As an Australian.. obviously i'm biased towards the Owen. Nationality aside it was an AWESOME weapon. Durability and functionality.
based
My dad started with the B.A.R. and a 1911. But as he gained combat experience he preferred the M1 Garland for most combat and the Thompson for urban areas. But then I doubt he ever had the opportunity to try the Owen. I know he thought the P40 was Ok but preferred the 45 over the 9mm in a sub machine gun.
P.S. He never gave up carrying the 1911 as it saved his life several times.
Also the machining on the early Thompsons are just unbelievable
I'll have to go for the BAR cus it's awesome
Me too
In 1989 the Army was still issuing the grease gun to M113 apc drivers in the 78th Engineer Battalion.
The sten was so good it couldn't even show up or it would have completely overshadowed the others.
Nonsense
I’m a huge Grease Gun guy so that’s my choice. Served American Forces all the way to Desert Storm, cheap to produce, easy to maintain, and really shines when it’s suppressed.
The Owens reputation for reliability makes the AK look unreliable. The US ordered 60,000 Owen's from memory none were ever delivered.
I live in the City where the Owen Gun was 1st designed..
The original .22 that Owen Built..
He lived in the Suburb down the road..
Well its Australian made ...
As for the Thompson Gun..
At the start of WW2 it cost $200 per Gun made
By the end of WW2 it cost $45 per Gun made.
I would use the good old BAR, I wanna lay down somewhere and lay some lead before reloading 20 later lmao.
lol the whispered “deal with it” had me chuckling
"The best was also the worst"
Sooo...A Sten?
I'm jealous of you. You get so many awesome guns when I can get none (due to age)
Stick with it, you'll age out and then the biggest holdback will be your wallet and your government.
Happy Halloween 🎃
The Owen, it's a local gun
PPS43 is the best smg in world war 2, cheap, easy to make, light, high fire rate, has a pistol grip and compensator.
How on Gods green earth did the Sten not make this list?
because it wasnt that good it was made to be massed produced like the grease gun
Also, he probably doesn't own one.
Best sub-machine gun of WWII.
Sten: Am I invited?
The best from each side it's gotta be the Owen and the Beretta M38 (all variants)
That drum mag has to be -100 ergonomics
The idea with that drum is for the fight to be over before ergonomics come into play.
@@armandgun Plus ergonomics don't really matter when firing out the window of a cadillac town sedan 😅
Love dis Channel ❤💯💯🔥🔥🔥🔥
The owen any day! It never had a cocking handle prone to breaking off like the M3 and was cheaper, lighter and more reliable than the tommy gun.
Just started watching you and i'm just confused at how you manage to get all of these guns like how much did you spent on these and how the hell did you get them?!
I come here for the history lesson..
But I stay for the ASMR 😂😂
If I had to pick, I'd go with M3A1. Simple, not many things to go wrong, caliber that's easy to suppress, compact... there is a certain charm to the open bolt tube guns.
Only reasons id pick the owens is cause it seems to be a bit more simplistic and its 9mm instead of .45. Both rounds are readily available today but I prefer 9 cause my Beretta is chambered in 9, I have all the stuff to reload 9mm rounds and the bolt doesnt have to be AS beefy like it does in the greese gun. But if I was in like WW2 or Korea I would take the M3A1 any day of the week
I gotta go.with the B.A.R, just something about having the full auto power of that 30-06 cartridge is just absolutely sexy and scary all at once
Not a smg thought is it
Pretty bad at being either an automatic rifle or a light machine gun
What a legend! 🏆 🤝 🍻
I would choose the m1 lighter than the bar, more range than the smg's and it looks cool
The Owen…cause I could go to my garage and make one😂
🤣
😉
I'm pretty sure the odd criminal in Oz has been caught doing just that.
ima have to choose the bar , I've always loved it and it has a special place in my heart
Best part of the owens camo paint is thats Australias national colours green and gold
I'd choose the bar, tho I may regret it after a day of carrying it 😅
Why didn’t you have the sten in the mix. I swore it was sitting there in the beginning
Johnson LMG is the WW2 gun Id choose. Oh wait.. you didnt mention that one.. so Ill go with the B.A.R. but only if it has a drum magazine!
All i got from that is if you want a good gun, ask a aussie kid to design it
When the Australian army phases out weapons, the local gun laws came into force. They were generally not sold on the market to local civilians. When unserviceable, they were decommissioned and destroyed.
My Merca’ is tingling seeing all those guns
Im going to have to go with either the Grease or the Thompson. Like I know the Owen was a good gun with a damn fine rate of fire but I just cant stand top loaders and off kilter sights.
The M1941 Johnson Light MG.
That cat is king 👑
Theoretically at the time soviets were also part of the allies lol but they deserve their own smg video
Boom 💥 digidi
Well since my military specialty was in the rear-echelon I'd pick the M1 carbine or the M3 "Grease Gun".
I would take the M3A1. It's controllabe especially for someone with a total lack of full auto experience such as myself, its very user friendly, relatively lightweight, and an iconic and effective cartridge. The only modification I would make is drilling a larger peep hole, like GIs did back then. Otherwise, in my humble opinion it doesn't get much better. You could put that weapon in the hands of just about anyone and it would make them an effective combatant. Additionally, its chambered in the same cartridge as my handgun of choice.
You take the grease gun, I'll take the Owen. We'll submerge out weapons in water, sand and mud, and then we'll shoot each other. What do you want for your funeral, for the grease gun will NOT fire?
4 armies did comprehensive tests on the OMS, Sten, Thompson and grease gun. The Owen left the others for dead starting with reliability in extreme conditions.
@@ianlowery6014blah blah blah the m3 is better
@@FlightAndTrack That's good, you will get killed quicker and won't be able to make silly comments such as "blah, blah, blah".
BTG, it was YOUR army which found the OMC significantly superior to the Thompson. The M3 is not much more than a cheap down graded version of the Thompson.
@@ianlowery6014 oh so you want me to die . I see
@@ianlowery6014 and the grease gun is more accurate and shoots a better round
Me being British don't get to enjoy such awesome toys. Yes if I could I'd collect like most who love fire power. Love this channel I get to see all of what I'm not allowed to own. Thanks BOOM! 👍
Same, I'm insanely jealous.
Thanks for your support! No interest in causing anyone heartache or frustration from jealousy. I'm just trying to leverage what I am able to access and share it in my own way for the benefit of the community. I love 20th century small arms history and development, and the more I am able to compare models like this from the same genre and across others, the better I can understand them and in turn help others appreciate them for what they were and how they were used.
Many people now engage with guns like these through video games, and I am starting to do some work with developers now as well. Dialling in the comparative elements between similar guns like this is really beneficial for consulting on their implementation into video games.
If I am successful in acquiring a larger chunk of land Q1/Q2 2023 I should be able to produce live fire content with these as well, which should really up the value of these comparison types of videos.
Greasy boy or the M1 Garand would be my choice. Having handled the BAR and the M1 Thompson before I would not want to lug those around Europe. Sidenote though, being a bolt boy myself, I'd happily take the 1903 springfield as well.
It was a tough call for me between the Grease Gun and the Garand. I'd probably go for the M3 myself though. SMG I think was more practical. If I would have opened it up to the M2 carbine, that would be my pick. I think of all the firearms on the Allied side, the M2 would have been the best. Probably because of its similarities to the Stg44, which I think is easily argued the best Axis weapon.
@@armandgun I agree with the STG 44 being the best axis weapon of WWII. When did the M2 Carbine come into production? I thought it didn't see use until Korea. Thanks as always for the history lessons!
The 1903 has absolutely shit sights tho.
@@Generalcloud876 okay let me rephrase the A3 or A4. Slightly better irons.
@@the.tricky.outdoorsman Thats fair.
The bar
Owen number one for the jungle conditions.
BAR just for the sake of how cool the thing is
Though, had it bren an option, A Bren would be solid too
I'm guessing it's because there isn't one in your collection, that it was left out, but going through France and Western Europe, I'd have wanted an M1 Carbine.
I’d take an Owen or a BAR. Owen if I’m in the jungle for sure. BAR if I’m in the western front
Fairly certain they made iterations of the Owen and used them in Vietnam
yep. Its the only one of these that was still being used in the 1970s.
I don't understand why you would prefer the heavier, less accurate, and less reliable weapon. The Owen could handle sand or mud without jamming. Australian troops much preferred them to any other sub-machine gun. Your choice seems based more on sentimentality and American pride than an objective decision based on the comparison of strengths and weaknesses of each weapon. Disappointing.
“bu- but Owen reliable! But- but Owen preferred by Australians!”
Dude lmao nobody cares.
I happen to own both a M3 Grease gun and a 1928 Thompson and they are both very reliable and accurate.
I initially looked at the title of the channel and honestly thought its literally just a floating arms talking and firing of guns. 😂😂😂
Fairly accurate. The firing part should return next spring/summer.
When they were using the 100 round drums, how many spare mags would they carry with them?
You can see tests here of the maing SMGs of WW2 and the Owen was the only one that worked after being tossed in mud, and working with sandy conditions.
czcams.com/video/mTc2fXqWD5I/video.html
Hey you got an amazing gun collection but there’s only one thing I want to know, are they functional firearms?
As an Australian Owen all the way another factor is price.
Australia wanted Thompson's but the poms bought them all.
As far as the question, I would go Garand
Hell yeah
It's Gotta be the Owen gun man 😁😅🤷♂️
For a rifle, gotta be the BAR, but the original WWI era M1918 with nothing but a sling. And that sweet checkered forestock that provides such great grip. The A2 pkg added nothing but unnecessary weight, and lots of those had the bipod, carry handle, flash hider, and anything else that could be removed ditched in the field anyways. Not only weight savings but didn't make the gun stand out to the enemy. For SMG, the Grease Gun. Nice and compact, great fire rate, quick to reload once you got it down, and just kept running and running, plus it's just so American. Only one of many excellent examples of US wartime mass production that swamped and stomped the Axis. Doesn't have to be pretty, just has to work. Although i think it's damn cool looking. I'd ditch the collapsable stock entirely so it wasn't in my way. Not a fan.
Owen is incredibly sexy and has something really… crazy in his look. YES, Australians can be PROUD of it!!
The story of its creation is incredible too.
Since you left out the m1/2 carbine I'd have to say the Thompson a1 never really cared from the gangster version lol
What about the sten?
Curious why the Soviet PPSH was left out. Hard to get? Don't have one? Or just want to avoid the controversy that comes with talking about the Soviet Union's predominant role in WWII?
I don't give af about county's past or controversy when it comes to guns. History is history, facts are facts. Doesn't change how good or bad a gun is, or it's relevance in small arms development.
The PPSH is certainly an iconic gun, but I left it out because I wouldn't have picked it. I suppose it could have replaced the thompson to take the role of the heavyweight, but they were finicky with drums and with sticks they didn't have enough capacity to maintain the fire rate imo. I'm sure they were effective in their own right, but even the soviets quickly replaced them with the pps43.
I also don't have one here at the armory, though the armory does own one. It should arrive sometime in December and will be in future content.
@@armandgun great response, not gunna lie I was tryna lob a fat one at ya to test your politics a bit and all I can say is... I can't wait to see more content
@@Abcadeaz 🙏🏻🤘🏻 loads more coming, and it’ll get better once I can actually shoot and demonstrate some of these in vids next summer.
@@armandgun Yeah I was curious why you don't shoot them in the videos
Ah, you mean when they sided with the Nazi's and divided Poland up between them?
I am your big fan bro 😉
From everything I've read, besides special forces teams using it for specialized roles(OSS, Commandos etc), most of the infantry hated the Thompson.
B.A.R.!! that would be the one I'd use!!
Thompson M1A1. Conscripted soldiers relied upon the volume of fire from the Gunner and sergeants. Often not aiming their Garands and Carbines.