Galactic Empire VS Galactic Republic | Which Navy is Better?
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Today we compare the Galactic Empire Navy to the Galactic Republic Navy in a heads up battle.
Written by: James Malfatti
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Imagine in 10,000 years they find this video and assume its a national geographic special xD
I’ll be amazed if CZcams videos last 10,000 years
@@f3p no, 40.000 years into the future, where there is only..
Korn
@@croxion oh, really? Well good for you, Wh40k is the least fictional universe I want to live in
ComradeKenobi
Only 40 years?
Also no need to add a decimal point there because you only placed zeros after it
"Ohh no, I'm not brave enough for comparisons."
Three drinks later:
"Allen, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!!!"
@Kato Ho Ten Soeng try meh
This reminds me of an old "theory" about the Original Trilogy if taken solely in isolation. Basically, the idea is that for centuries before the OT, space battles were fought and won by massive battleships slugging it out with turbolasers. Only in the few years leading up to the OT do fighters and bombers become a serious threat to capital ships (perhaps due to the invention of proton torpedoes or something). The Empire is thus trying to fight the Galactic Civil War without realizing that the nature of war has fundamentally changed. In this concept, the Venator would be a SUCCESSOR to the ISD, as battleship combat is de-emphasized and fighters and bombers become the core of naval warfare.
Obviously doesn't work with any version of Star Wars canon, but it is an interesting way of looking at these things, I think.
I agree to a point because its like modern day navy’s, battles are mainly fought with lighter cruisers frigates and aircraft carriers. So it would make sense if the Venator was the successor
I agree, Aircraft Carriers today have replaced the Battleships with large turrets of the past due to bombers being very effective on destroying battleships, and since Star Wars was based on WWII battles.
Proton bombs and proton torpedoes are as old as the republic it's self
I get the parallels you're drawing, but the reason why battleships fell out of favor was that naval gunnery just couldn't match the vastly superior accuracy and range of bombs dropped from aircraft. Any spaceship built for combat wouldn't have that issue
I can appreciate the fact that he does recordings outside
I'm pretty sure that's a green screen
@@ambitionofkelp2491 lol
kelp I think the same as well
@@gravytube4099 yes
The background looks like the Grand California Hotel at Disney's California Adventure, there is a central garden there that I used to walk through all the time when lines at rides were too long.
Correction: the empire had battleships, and the republic had battle carriers,letting them go toe to toe with the empire at least for a little while while completely outclassing them with starfighters
When it comes to numbers the Empire would win but when it comes to being effective the Republic would win.
In the long run I don’t think the Empire’s doctrine would work, it wasted too many resources on just one ship.
Looshn Am I wrong? I prefer the republic over this mess.
@@VNM-Venom252 well I mean yeah republic had padmé
Lord Vader, shall we start taking the Venators out of mothballs, then?
Virgins
It would be nice if he played out the battle like he did with clone trooper vs stormtrooper vs first order troopers
To me, the problem for the Imperial fleet was the Tarkin doctrain. It lead to a huge vulnerability to hit and run attack as well as to superior starfighters - literally just the kind of enemy they were up against when facing off against the rebellion. If they had kept their ship designs to having a decent mix of firepower alongside an effective point defense system then they would have been far more effective against the rebellion. Add to that a little more investment into their own fighter designs (adding shields and hyperdrives) would have made them a lot more effective. Essentially, rather than moving to Tie fighters as their main fighter craft, they would have been far better off upgrading the old Z-95 and Y-Wing designs
Or the tie defender from rebels
@Gaius Wyrden mm more so a flawed logic then a desire to see it fall
On paper his idea may have been sound but in practice was where the flaws came in
Maybe Tarkin was a rebel and let these obvious weakness slide. If Tarkin was a cut throat imperial loyalist Luke wouldn't have came close to the death star.
@@lucankade346 no
That was his Ego at work there
Of which he had a huge one and he felt no threat from a squadron of Snub Fighters being able to even remotely damage, let alone destroy the station
@Gaius Wyrden You need to read more history. Real life generals, admirals and theorists have proposed ideas that were just as disastrous for their side.
Q) What is the purpose of a Navy (in Star Wars)
A) To police space lines, engage in counterpiracy patrols, convoy escort, and provide transport and logistical support for planetary invasions. In the even of full war, to also form the backbone resistance to the opposing naval forces.
Q) What is the best way to do this?
A) This depends on the state of galactic politics and what is considered the most important strategic and tactical objective (never discount the value of patrol and escort forces -- you cannot win a war with empty stomachs and dead merchantmen)
It’d be interesting to learn more about the transition of the Republic Navy to the Imperial Navy. The whys and hows of moving to the TIE based fleet, for example. I’m sure bits of this have been covered in other videos, too.
I see you're chillin' on the forest moon of Endor
In a straight on fight it depends how many fighters the venators bring, ISD's turbolasers can hit starfighters but it's very infrequent and difficult. I think that the venators will be immediately destroyed leaving it to the starfighters. The ties, being flying cardboard boxes, will be completely outclassed and it'll fall to republic starfighters vs ISD's and with poor shielding and lack of point defence weapons the ARC 170's and Y-wings will ruin them. That's my prediction
On the Thrawn novel his Ties destroyed multiple V-19 attacking a prision, newer ships have an edge on old ships so ot will depend on the pilots.
@@luisemoralesfalcon4716 I'm mainly talking ARC's who can shoot behind and can shred them in one shot 😂
@@arliecoyne1218 Good point, except if they face Defenders...
Arlie Coyne, why have you written a whole essay?
@@DasMonke _Call that an essay?_
I've got the word limit on occasion, and even once had to reply to myself to finish a comment (it only got a few likes while a different pithy one paragraph comment on the same video got a order of magnitude higher).
_You do not know the _*_pontification_*_ of the autistic side of the Geek…_
Also the Republic has the Jedi, so that should certainly throw the Empire off the loop.
Even without them the Republic Clone Navy would outclass the Imperial fleet due to their unconventional battle tactics and combined arms experience. When fighting the Clones in space; don't just expect ships and starfighters, also expect walkers, clones and your own ships being turned against you. The Clones were far more than just soldiers.
Plus the Republic has General Skywalker!
@@wlm1697 And the Empire has Lord Vader!
@@wlm1697 Anakin is an exception like General Thron.
If it was ship to ship in equal numbers /size as Alan proposes, then it'd be a closer match favoring the Empire due to the sheer firepower of the ISD.
If it were balanced in terms of resource/monetary cost, then the Republic has a huge numeric advantage. A single ISD costs 150,000,000 credits while a Venator costs nearly a third of that at 59,000,000. Every individual ISD would face 2 Venators, over 800 starfighters, and any number of cruisers/frigates/corvettes/support vessels that the leftover budget can afford. Gold Squadron was able to disable an ISD with no more than 22 Y-wings supported by the Profundity. Imagine the damage you can inflict with more than 4 Gold Squadrons.
I don't care how much that ISD intensifies its forward firepower, it will get eaten alive by that many starfighters, bombers, and enemy capital vessels.
And that's before factoring superior leadership & skilled pilots due to war-hardened Jedi, officers, and clones.
If the Republic even sent a boarding party with a Jedi and clone raiding regiment, they would dominate the stormtroopers.
The Republic. Everytime. Even if the Empire brings all its support ships, the cruisers were better at shooting down snub fighters, then the Republic's also bringing all its toys, and I recall a couple designs that were better than the Venator in a stand up fight.
*Brings in Mandator model* Like this?
@@banzeyegaming2234 *looks at it* ...Kuat made that for their own System Defense forces? Hot damn.
@@DetectiveLance Ohohohoho, then what if I told you about the Secutors and Praetors? And did you know that the Victory-class Star Destroyers were built first by the REPUBLIC?
@@banzeyegaming2234 THAT I did know.
You are really one of the best CZcamsrs out there. I love how you mix two amazing things together to make comparisons. i.e Star Wars and History (WW1 & WW2)
I have an idea for a new video: The strengths and weaknesses of proton torpedoes and concussion missiles.
This is one of the reasons I love generation tech, as a huge history buff myself I love when he sprinkles in mentions and comparisons to battles an tactics from ww1 and 2. If I recall things Alan has said before hed also a huge fan of military history and I greatly enjoy listening to him in all the videos. Love ya generation tech, will never stop watching.
To be fair, space combat would be *_FAR_* different from surface combat in either of those wars. There's no horizon to hide behind, and no significant gravity/resistance to limit the range of your weapons (aside from random in-universe limitations). Depending on the specific technology involved, a battleship actually makes a lot more sense than a carrier in space. Engagement distances could potentially be measured in light seconds (or fractions of a light second), no way a fighter travels that kind of distance in any meaningful period of time, especially not without being detected, tracked, and intercepted by point defense weapons.
The Empire is war made manifest.
That is why it is perfect.
The Imperial Navy is a massive spiked club, for intimidating opponents into not fighting and when you DO have to fight with it, its a clumsy, inefficient brute force weapon. The Republic Navy was more like a Longsword, keeping opponents at arms length before deftly taking them out with precise strikes
@@weldonwin at the same time, you really have to hope that club doesn't hit you
I was waiting for this one turn it up
Same
Me as well
Unpopular opinion, I'm going with the Empire on this.
1) Better ships. Space isn't surface combat, there's a distinct lack of a horizon and no significant gravity/air resistance. The role of the fighter becomes secondary as a result, because there's no longer as many obstructions to the ship delivering heavy firepower itself it no longer needs to rely as heavily on smaller craft to act as a delivery system for it. Also while ISDs are often criticized for not having point defense, there are several source materials that say otherwise. Blade Squadron alone mentions them having a flak envelope, and then there's this little tidbit "On Moonsong’s tactical display the Devastator resembled a huge spinning ball of electronic countermeasures punctuated by an outgoing hail of laser cannon fire." Note that it says "laser cannon fire," not "turbolaser fire." So they have the firepower to take on just about any Republic ship, and are well defended with ECMs, point defense weapons, and fighters. Venators in contrast have only the defense.
2) Superior strategy. The Empire relies heavily on its ships to be the main offensive firepower, and in turn can use its fighters defensively in conjunction with its ECMs and point defense. The Venator has large "surface" guns, but few in number comparatively. At the same time the bulk of its fighter compliment are V-wings and Eta-2's, both of which are interceptors or air superiority fighters, not multi-role fighters or bombers. They'll do nothing to an ISD but scuff up the paint, and instead the Venator will have to rely on its rather small (comparatively) compliment of ARC-170's, Z-95's and/or Y-wings to actually engage the ISD. Y-wings were considered slow to begin with, never mind the heavily armored variants used by the Republic (we can say there's a reason the Rebellion stripped off the armor). ARC-170's and Z-95's are basically reskinned, older X-wings, and we see in Ep4 and Ep6 TIEs don't have a problem taking these out. They'll also outnumber the clone multi-role fighters, given the average compliment of TIEs and clone fighters. So the clones of the Republic will have to evade point defense weapons and TIE fighters (who will be concentrating on them rather than the relatively useless dogfighters/interceptors), while combating the ISD's ECMs, in the slim hope of hitting the ISD with enough firepower to neutralize it. Meanwhile the ISD just chugs along and trades broadsides with the Venator, a battle with an almost certain outcome.
3) Superior logistics. Here the Empire dominates the Republic. The Empire lasted roughly 20 years, and in that time it's estimated they built 25,000 ISDs. Some people say that's too small given the size of the Empire, but do the math on how many ISD's the Empire built PER DAY to achieve that number. On top of this the Empire recruits from the masses, and Coruscant alone has over a trillion people. Meanwhile the rank-and-file of the Republic are clones that have to be bred. It's not hard to see the Empire can replace it's losses *_FAR_* easier than the Republic could, and it gets even worse. While the ARC-170 may have a hyperdrive, the bulk of the fighters carried on a Venator do not. Meaning when a Venator is taken out the majority of its pilots will end up stranded, and likely captured or killed. Yes you could say the same for the pilots of Imperial TIEs, but again they're more easily replaced. The financial burden that would place on the Republic would also be immense. Do the math on how many clones the Republic would have to pay to have bred and trained for ten years to staff all their Venators (if they had an equal number to the Empire). That's a lot of clones. Could the Republic really financially support breeding billions of clones to fight the Empire?
Check out the Wookipedia page on ISD-Is and ISD-IIs and they’re PDC weapons. Then compare it to the ships used by the Sepratists (Munificents, Recusants, Providences, Lucrehulks, etc) While the ISD-I would give the pilots pause, the ISD-II is almost LAUGHABLE. And don’t even get me started on their fighters. A Vulture Droid has shields, and in a one on one battle, they got WRECKED by clone pilots. And before you argue that pilots of the Empire are human, just look at their fighters. They can be destroyed by tiny rocks, for God’s sake! (Sure, the fighter was moving very, very, VERY fast, but so was the Millennium Falcon, and it couldn’t even be destroyed by the shockwave of a moon colliding with a friggin’ PLANET) Also, the Empire having better tactics!? What, have you just suddenly forgot about the DOCTRINE of the Republic? They launch fighters from a distance, effectively making the Imperial turbolasers ineffective. AND the VENATOR’S heavy turbolasers can be reconfigured for sniping or PDC duty! Oh, and I did the math. If your average Venator replaces it’s Eta-2 interceptors with bombers (They’re meant for jedi...what’s a Clone gonna do in one of them?) then it should HAVE, SAY, 3-4 full squadrons of Y-Wings. Sure, they’re slower, but a few hits from the turret of those Y-Wings is enough to turn a TIE Fighter into a flaming wreck. And let’s not forget how a SINGLE SQUADRON (At most, for all we know, it could’ve been just half a squadron) incapacitated an ENTIRE ISD-I, and they’re supposed to be the ones that absolutely wreck starfighters! Imagine what you could do with FOUR! And that’s only with one Venator! As you know, Venators are rarely alone, with one or two more Venators accompanying them, with an assortment of other, smaller vessels. and finally, there is one thing that Generation Films oh so expertly calls out; the experience of both navies. I don’t think I need to say much there...
Oh, and did I forget to mention the unconventional tactics of the Republic? Yeah, the Republic had tactics that literally threw WALKERS at you on asteroids, with said walkers firing everything they had at the ISDs. And you know what? It works, especially if it’s in an asteroid belt with someone just putting all shields front...
@@banzeyegaming2234 *"Check out the Wookipedia page on ISD-Is and ISD-IIs and they’re PDC weapons."*
The Wookiepedia page mentions ISD-I's having point defense weapons, not seeing your point here. The Devastator was upgraded to an ISD-II, and as mentioned canon lore is it had point defense weapons. Also we see an ISD-II use flak in Ep5, so...
*"Then compare it to the ships used by the Sepratists (Munificents, Recusants, Providences, Lucrehulks, etc)"*
Ships crewed by incompetent droids, usually with incompetent leaders... Why am I comparing these two?
*"A Vulture Droid has shields"*
That do absolutely nothing. I can't explain this to people enough, SHIELDS DO NOTHING! Pretty much every single fighter to appear on screen we see get taken out in a single shot at some point, unless there's a main character piloting it. Shields in Star Wars are like armor in fantasy movies, it's paper mache unless someone important is wearing it.
*"in a one on one battle, they got WRECKED by clone pilots"*
Are you trying to show how incompetent vulture droids are or how useless shields are?
*"They can be destroyed by tiny rocks, for God’s sake! (Sure, the fighter was moving very, very, VERY fast, but so was the Millennium Falcon, and it couldn’t even be destroyed by the shockwave of a moon colliding with a friggin’ PLANET)"*
Comparing a fighter to a highly upgraded freighter with multiple shield generators and types of shields, including plot armor (the most powerful shield of all).
*"They launch fighters from a distance, effectively making the Imperial turbolasers ineffective."*
Giving the Empire all the time in the world to detect, track, and neutralize those fighters. Launching fighters from a distance only works if your enemy can't detect and/or intercept them. There's no horizon in space, nothing for those fighters to hide behind, nothing to protect them from the massive field of flak that's going to be erupting all around them. And then, because they don't have physical shielding, their own allied fighters that get blown up are going to contribute to that flak field because space.
*"AND the VENATOR’S heavy turbolasers can be reconfigured for sniping or PDC duty!"*
And you don't think an ISD's can? You *_DO_* realize the ISD is a newer version with newer weapon systems, right? Right?
*"If your average Venator replaces it’s Eta-2 interceptors with bombers (They’re meant for jedi...what’s a Clone gonna do in one of them?) then it should HAVE, SAY, 3-4 full squadrons of Y-Wings."*
Eta's were used by clones too in the lore. It's the only way it makes sense to have so many onboard the Venator in the first place. They may have been meant for Jedi initially, but that didn't mean others couldn't use them. Also I'm guessing that by "full squadrons" you mean 12 craft per squadron, which is actually a small squadron (a full squadron is 24 aircraft).
*"Sure, they’re slower, but a few hits from the turret of those Y-Wings is enough to turn a TIE Fighter into a flaming wreck."*
A lot slower, and a few hits from a TIE is enough to turn them into a flaming wreck as well. There's a reason the Rebellion stripped off the armor for improved speed you know.
*"And let’s not forget how a SINGLE SQUADRON (At most, for all we know, it could’ve been just half a squadron) incapacitated an ENTIRE ISD-I"*
That's not actually what happened. The ISD-I was engaging hostile capital ships, its shield ball had been destroyed, then the Y-wings came in and used ion torpedoes (a rare armament for Y-wings, in fact the first time they are ever seen loaded with them to my knowledge). The Y-wings seem to fire two torpedoes per "shot," and appear to fire twice. There are five of them in total, so twenty ion torpedoes to disable an already weakened ISD-I with low/no shields.
*"Imagine what you could do with FOUR!"*
Considering they'd be even slower and less maneuverable than the Rebellion's, and would have to fly across no man's land to reach the ISD apparently, probably nothing. They'd get shot down well before they reached the ISD.
*"As you know, Venators are rarely alone, with one or two more Venators accompanying them, with an assortment of other, smaller vessels"*
We rarely see ISDs alone either, and in the TV shows there's an assortment of ships with them as well.
*"and finally, there is one thing that Generation Films oh so expertly calls out; the experience of both navies. I don’t think I need to say much there"*
Ah yes, the Battle of Geonosis with the clones marching out in the open under a barrage of heavy fire was such a display of exceptional leadership... They got better over time, but not all of their commanders were geniuses. Hell Tarkin was one of their commanders FFS, and he was considered one of the good ones!
*"Oh, and did I forget to mention the unconventional tactics of the Republic? Yeah, the Republic had tactics that literally threw WALKERS at you on asteroids"*
A desperate plan that was used once in a kid's TV show that if memory serves was suggested by Anakin Skywalker, aka Darth Vader.
@@khadenallast4495 keep it up man, I couldn't ever understand where these people get the idea that a Venator could take an ISD. It's asinine. lol
I really enjoyed watching this. Can you do more fleet comparison videos?
Shoutout To You James!
Love these videos
Wish I knew what music was playing in the background of your videos Allen because the one playing in the background of this video is awesome
I would imagine the clone army on the surface would be claiming more W's
The background looks like the Grand California Hotel at Disney's California Adventure, there is a central garden there that I used to walk through all the time when lines at rides were too long.
In Rogue One, five y-wings are able to completely disable an ISD. Now consider the amount of y-wings that a Venator can carry. seems like a pretty obvious outcome to me
Hello. I’m friends with the guy who helped write this one. It was really cool to see his work made into a video. I bet he enjoyed it!
The freaking music is awesome. Howling-Lupas Nocte
Nice job James whoever you are. Couldn’t tell it was knew 👍🏻😄👍🏻
In the middle of a damn heat wave this dude films a video on his patio...thats dedication.
Either way Palpy wins. Just like he likes it
But he was killed at the end like a noob
kinda makes me think that the Imperial Doctrine is the best attack is the best defense (which against large ships they'd do fine.) but like you said, the Empire was used to having the upper hand and got lazy, where the Republic was fighting an uphill battle the whole war so they were used to pulling some clever (or cheap) tricks to win. I'd give it to the Republic 8 out of 10. only way the Imperials would win is if the Interdictor ships were plentiful enough and properly guarded
Get well, Allen! Hopefully you're not fighting Covid-19. If so; or not, I hope you recover quickly. As for the video; I concur. The Republic would have one against The Empire. The clones by themselves would have wiped the floor with your average storm trooper. Another thing to consider would have been all the Jedi still alive would have made the conflict even shorter. Thank you for posting.
this is pretty intresting, i'd like to see the same done to the Separatist side
as well as ground forces for each (GR, Sep,and Imp)
I don't like how this is exactly 10:00 but hey who am I to make any assumptions.
I wonder if the imperials would be better if they continues using and creating clones as their soldiers
Yeah be great to find out too
This topic has been covered many times just look it up
@@cirbam2747 ty
One virus could wipe out an entire clone army by targeting their genetics.
@@TheLiamster I think they could change it up with several genetic templates. Still better than what we have. If the they didn't make a superweapon, they could make a super army instead.
You should do a video on who would win in a fleet to fleet battle trench or Thrawn
a classic example of the ineptitude of the imperial Navy and its officer Corps can be seen at the battle of Endor. The Empire had the largest single concentration of ships in one location to date (correct me if im mistaken). the Alliance Navy was also the largest it had ever been but still paled in comparison. although its fighter compliment was substantial. The Empire could have just swarmed in and annihilated the Rebels. but instead, held back due to internal bickering and a lack of clear command structure. they only engaged when the rebel fleet moved in to hide from the Death star attacks, amongst them.
I agree. The carrier style tactics that the republic depended on would be of greater advantage than the battlecarrier tactics of the empire.
I feel that if the republic navy and imperial navy switched places in eras, they will do well
You should do a video on how realistic it is to make Republic vehicles such as the ARC-170, Venator class star destroyer, etc...
How about how unrealistic when compared to Earth's fighter jets?
Is it just me or does Alan sound a bit sick. Get well soon Alan!
I was wondering the same thing. I know these videos take a LOT more work than people realise. I hope he's okay
I casted a spell on him earlier
Kinda soudn like his voice mutated again abd on top of that sick
It’s the dolphins! They poisoned him!
@@wesleychoi5001 they've done worst to others, those bastards
Immediately upvoted due to your pose!
Love your videos and materials
I make huge scal models of lego battles and always take your material into count
Damn, because of the thumbnail it really shows how much smaller the Venator was compared to the ISD
I have 4 requests for Videos. Just like this Video. But..
1) A Space battle. The Covenant from Halo VS The Republic from Star wars. If the Fleets where the same Size.
2) A Land Battle. The Covenant from Halo VS The Republic from Star wars. If their Ground Forces where the same Size.
3) A Space battle. The Covenant from Halo VS The Trade Federation/CIS from Star wars. If the Fleets where the same Size.
4) A Land Battle. The Covenant from Halo VS The Trade Federation/CIS from Star wars. If their Ground Forces where the same Size.
There are some point´s missing. The Immobilizer 418 Interdictor. The Empire just needs to wait for a part of the Republic Fleet to fly by. And such big formations will be easy detect by the Empire. And the Fighter capacity of 420 on a the Venator is theoretically because the Hangar Space is used as Cargo Area too. The 72 Fighters on the ISD on the other Hand is the standart Number because the ISD has Special Cargo Space. And last point the Tie Fighters would shield up the ISD against Fighter attacks which try to attack the ISD, at the same time the ISD attack the Venator. And the ISD could store two Gozanti Class Cruiser in there Hangar bay.
Can you do a video on Soon Bayts? can be used in a list of Jedi General Grievous killed or what it takes to become a master.
Who is the best grand admiral throne or admiral trench
I've been thinking about reading some of the star wars books and comics. Can you do a video on the ones that you think would be the best ones to start with, and some of your favourites
Imagine a Mirror Universe where Republic good guys survived the Clone Wars vs Empire bad guys who took over. Both would fight a war based from staging areas where the divide between parallel realities was weakest. The Empire was more advanced and had a more stable economy and could force projects without regard for cost. The Empire had better orbital defenses and could defend worlds easier than the CIS could ever, but the Republic would have a fleet of Lucrehulk freighters (if they kept them for trade) fit for conversion into battleships. The Republic would turn to cloning again and recruit Clone veterans and would have aging capital carriers, but would be a better version of the Rebel Alliance to Restore the Republic with similar leadership and a reliance on starfighters. The Empire would turn to massive recruiting and maybe build new weapons based off known Clone killers from the Clone Wars. The Empire could start building smaller ships to destroy fighters while the Republic would need more defensive carriers and bigger carriers like Mon Calamari ships so they could run more fighters and slug it out with Star Destroyer groups. The Clones and remaining Jedi would put up a strong fight on the ground, but Imperial super weapons would wipe out entire worlds or destroy Clone armies creating panic in the Republic, which would struggle in a war of attrition and turn to propaganda, just like the Clone Wars. Both sides would be upgrading their starfighters.
All I'll say is, if the Empire is commanded by Thrawn, then it's all over.
I love the Republic Fleet, I love the Republic Army, I LOVE THE REPUBLIC! Oh and I love the clones to, especially the Arcs and Commandoes.
Can you do a video on best Jedi to be assigned to if you were a clone
My mans is living his best life👑🤝
Now I need someone to animate a battle between a Republic fleet and an Imperial fleet. Appropriate battle strategies and all.
It just like the real-life history on Battleship vs carrier, the carrier side always win since the battleship side can't even touch them
Except in real life carriers are on the other side of the horizon, where they're near impossible for the battleship to even detect let alone shoot at. In space there's no horizon to hide behind, so...
So a Venator is basically an aircraft carrier, and a Star Destroyer is like a Battleship. I see Imperial ships like the Executor going the way of the Prince of Wales in our world here.
The Venator is kinda both. Which is even better...
I do like these "vs." vids. I wonder who would come out on top in a contest between Star Wars Darth Vader and Star Trek's Kevin Uxbridge, the Douwd? I'm quite sure that Q would just brush away the entire empire but the Douwd might make for a more even match.
Good real life example @ Battle of Midway.
Also decent movie!
You missed one category - _Hero units._
*Imperial Officer:* Lord Vader, the leader of the other fleet, an Anakin Skywalker, has called you out for a Lightsaber duel…
[PG films are allowed one expletive] *Vader:* _The Fuck ??_
The Japanese made the same mistake as the Empire during the Pacific War of relying mainly on large battleships which were already becoming obsolete as fighters and bombers determined the final outcomes
sorry for necro, but it is not true, Japs had more CVs than USA in 1941, but they didnt have resources to build more ships, they even converted some of their planed cruisers, battleships and battlecruisers to CVs. Main aim of Japanese strike against PH was to destroy American CVs, which sadly for em didnt happen cuz they were not in harbor at that time. US navy can say they were lucky(or anticipated something like that could happen and had CVs on move), we will probably never find why CVs were send out of harbor, but if they were there Japanese would probably achiev forced peace with USA, which would give em free reign over asian pacific area.
@@Edbi18 Even if the Japanese did manage to destroy all of the carriers, it wouldn't have made much difference in the outcome of the war. As you already pointed out, the Japanese Empire lacked resources. On top of the resistances throughout the Japanese colonial territories, all the U.S. had to do was convince the Soviet Union to go to war again with Japan which would give her time to rebuild her carrier fleets. Remember, unlike Japan, the U.S. can easily afford to recover and rebuild her fleets.
Allan... we need to talk about the Tie Figher. I’ve flown Imperial and Rebellion fighters alike; and in a dogfight, I’ll take the TIE over any rebel any day. The only time it gets you in trouble is when dealing with mines or heavy units. Best stay away from anything with a turret. But I’ll eat x-wings for breakfast every time.
You should do the galactic republic vs the new republic navy
Great video, but 2 things about the starfighter which weren't mentioned.
1) The V-Wing was not included in battle plans (which seems correct since their production started toward the end of the clone wars). I think he could give one hell of a fight to the standard TIE fighter due to its maneuvrability(thanks to their new Twin Ion engine) and also its light shielding.
2) The true potential of the ARC-170 as an electronical warfare ships was never put into balance but in a battle like the one suggested (republican starfighter versus ISD). But I think again, the use of radar jammer could possibly give them an edge to the first bombing run (like the one in Rogue one by gold Squadron)
There was also a ship which wasn't mentionned, the Victory class Star Destroyer. Despite being half the size of the ISD its 80 missiles were just enough to litterally fill the sky with missiles and also give a firepower to increase the one of the Venator-class thanks to its 9 DBY-827
This Reminds Me Why Battleships Died Off And Aircraft Carriers Became Popular
The Tie fighters was just a flying coffin. It didn't even have life support. There's been out in massive waves to ever distract or overwhelming Target. Tie Interceptor pilots were chosen from Tie fighter pilots who survived 5 combat missions, Tie Defender pilots were Tie Interceptor pilots who survived 4 combat missions. Han called those pilots crazy and suicidal. If the Republic navy was designed to fight from a distance they surely wasn't doing it at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith, they were near point-blank with most of the separatist Fleet.
Pacific Theatre of WW2 proves superior fighters carry the day.
I wish we had a new Empire at War that could give us this scenario.
Except space is a vastly different environment from an atmospheric ocean. There's no horizon to hide behind, no significant gravity nor air resistance to limit the range of heavy weapons, and fighters could potentially have to fly hundreds of kilometers while under heavy fire to reach their target. Fighters are essentially a carrier's "guns," allowing it to strike at targets far removed from the ship itself that no conventional gun could ever hope to reach in atmosphere. But space isn't atmosphere, the ranges drastically extend. No, without special in-universe limitations on the capabilities of ships, fighters could only hope to serve a few niche roles at best. Even the idea of hiding them in an asteroid belt or the like doesn't work. SW makes asteroid belts look stupidly dense, in reality the Hoth system either suffered a great cataclysm recently or that asteroid belt is on the verge of coalescing into a planet. Average distance between asteroids is the same as the distance between the Earth and its moon, which is larger than the combined diameter of every other planet in the solar system.
Loving the outside vibe! Also this channel has been amazing since I followed it 2 years ago and you guys do amazing work!
Alan out here enjoying himself in these trying times
sounds like the best kind of battleship would be one that combines carriers with the firepower of destroyers.
think what would have happened if the Venator Destroyers were retrofitted with similar scale firepower as the ISDs, but retained their fighter numbers. with some anti-fighter lasers too
Does anyone know the movie showed with the planes?
I could be wrong, but I don't think ion blasts have the same range problem turbo lasers do right? If so a venator could take an ISD. As long as it has a full fighter compliment. Just sit out of range of the turbo lasers, while using the old cannons to weaken sheilds and other systems. Then send the fighters in.
If I'm reading this correctly, a single Venator-class, despite being smaller, can carry 420 fighters whereas a single Imperial-class can only hold 72. In terms of the size of their respective air wings, it's like comparing a WW2-era Lexington-class with enough space for 103 aircraft to a modern-day Nimitz-class with only enough space for 85 aircraft.
No it wouldn't because the senators and ISSD are only like 15 years apart its 420 highly advanced star fighter vs cheap budget cost star fighters
Which faction do you think had the most defectors?
Generation tech should make a video which guides the viewer through the various magnitudes of firepower in STAR WARS; turbo lasers, ion cannons etc.
that wouldnt exactly be the best idea cause different weapons have different use, e.g. ion is used to drain the shield it will be uneffective at tearing apart the structure of the enemy ship, while the turbo laser are not the best at draining shields, however will be amazing at tearing apart the enemy ship's structure
What about the Republic Navy vs First Order Navy?
This is more for Generation Films & maybe DeathBattle (been trying to have Wiz & Boomstick do a video about this). The Helicarrier (Marvel) vs the Pandora (Crimson Skies) vs the Delphinus (Skies of Arcadia); the Flying equivalent of such sea vessels & such…
Can you do republic vs rebels or rebels vs separatists
I have always wondered whether or not the Venators had shields. In every episode of the Clone Wars, they are taking direct hits and damage. Other than that, if it was a stand off fight, I tend to side with the Republic Navy as being the victor.
I’m curious if this situation were to occur would Siddious be able to issue out order 66 or would the clones no longer view him as the chancellor. As siddious is a much different person than Palpatine in terms of voice looks and over all influence
generation tech but every video is in a slightly more exotic outdoor location and the music is a slight bit funkier
Hello Allen. I wish we could hang out with you and American Ben and just chill. Maybe someday.
I have always thought that the two should have been switched. The Republic's ships would have been better again the Rebellion and the Empire's ships would have been more effective against the Seps. Maybe they switched because firepower was found to be more important when they should probably have gone with a more star fighter carrier style ship like the Venator and invested in better star fighters such as the TIE defender
The Venator could also house artillery in it's hanger bay and use them for close range punching. I don't see the ISD doing that.
Probably because the ISD didn't need to...
Wait... the way I remember it was that the Z-95 was one of the major system defense fighters, and as such wound up in the hands of a lot of pirate groups, which was why the Empire designed the TIE-LN to combat it (amongst other "civilian" starfighters). Z-95's are generally no match for the TIE-LN, one on one, let alone, at the squadron scale. (unless that was retconned with the disney acquisition) The development of the TIE-LN was the impetus for the Alliance to switch from the Z-95 to the X-wing and that entire story line. If the Z-95 was still better than the TIE-LN, the Alliance would have had no pressure to upgrade to the X-wing, which is a lot more expensive.
You do realize your comparing common criminals like pirates and local defense fleets to the most experienced and well trained pilots in the galaxy? Also these z-95s were not as well kept. Clones with z-95s would decimate tie fighter pilots who were supposed to be expendable and replaceable with the next graduating recruit.
@@user-uy7qg3ot4n First, it's "you're" not "your."
No, I am not comparing them. I'm stating that they often got into dogfights according to canon. I would also point out that several of the polities local defense fleets had superior training to the Empire's, or at least superior results. The Hapan's and Chiss come to mind.
I do not discount that training makes a huge difference, however, according to what I recall from canon sources (from 20 years ago, admittedly) if you had two pilots, equally skilled and experienced with their fighters, the pilot in the TIE/LN would be much more likely to win the engagement. The TIE/LN is faster, lighter, and more maneuverable. The real difference between the two star fighters isn't even really that the Z-95 has shields (weak though they are) and the TIE doesn't (weak is better than none after all), it's that the TIE is designed as a short range fighter, and the Z-95 is a long range fighter. Yes, clones piloting Z-95 would likely emerge victorious over their TIE/LN non-clone pilots, but that is down to the superior training (and years of it!) that they received vs the TIE/LN pilots. Then again, if you put a Clone in the TIE/LN seat and an imperial pilot in the Z-95, it would be no contest, the Clone still wins due to training and experience.
@@torjones1701 these fighters were designed for clones. Some of the republic fighters cannot be properly used by non clones or properly trained pilots. The Arc 170 operates with 3 pilots with each pilot having their own roles pilot, gunner, and back gunner. These ships are hard to use for non clones and yes some of the local trained pilots were better than the Empire's pilots. But that's not saying anything when your trying to face off the most experienced and best trained pilots in the galaxy. Also eta 2 interceptors and v wings are standard armament in venators not z-95s. These interceptors will annihilate tie fighters especially the v wings which have even better speed and maneuverability than the tie and even has a quick swivel canon that give the fighter better coverage. Tie fighters with their training pose less of challenge than a horde of vultures equipped with buzz droids. Not only can droids pull of maneuvers impossible for non droids, but the CIS's droid tech improves massively as the war continues. The Empire uses ISD 2s not as a scare tactic but as a plan for the future. Palpatine did not pay attention to the rebels, and rightly so because what was coming to the galaxy was bigger than any rebellion. The Yuuzahn Vong came to the galaxy with organic ships aimed to wipe out all technology and find more space to live. Their ships were nearly unstoppable with most of them the size of death star 2s. Called world ships. They could wipe out fleets in seconds. The ISD2 was created in large numbers in preparation of their invasion. Why do you think it has no point defense and 2,000 design flaws? Concentrated Turbo Laser fire was the only way to bring down these ships along with super weapons. In all honesty the rebellion actually got way more people killed than the Empire. The vong exterminated all the people and terraformed so much land
@@user-uy7qg3ot4n Again, you tilt at windmills, Comrade. You fail because you are arguing against positions that I do not hold. I don't know what you think I'm arguing, but you might try to steelman my argument first, rather than strawmanning it.
The V-wing is not annihilating anything as it's only just barely faster than a Y-wing.
ETA-2 interceptors would likely be excellent platforms to take against TIE/LN's, and while that would have been a logical choice to make in-universe due to them being retired for a less-capable and less expensive platform due to the doctrinal change, it was not one that was made because it would have been too visually similar. The in-universe reasons are shoe-horned in to cover for the real-world decisions.
The Z-95 was invented as a direct predecessor to the X-wing in canon, just as the ETA-2 was for the TIE/LN. That is the reality of where the two starfighters come from. That they were later given more detail and used in later stories earlier in the timeline, only complicates matters for people who are ignorant of history. All the rest of that stuff? It's invented story line, WAY after the origins of the Z-95 was already defined. There are TWO timelines you need to keep track of here, not one, the order in which material was developed for the universe, and not just the universe's timeline.
The Empire only had to deal with a rebellion that was worthy because of a handfull of sypathatic systems, scattered around the galaxy, not 10000 united systems located in roughly the same territory (the Outer Rim/ 1/4 Mid Rim
The republic had double the number of dedicated fighter craft, whether it be v-19, v-wing or head-hunter, all of which were superior in quality when compared to the TIE series.
While the fighters were duelling the republic had purpose build bombers, both fighter-bomber hybrids (arc-170) or strike-bombers (torpedo style bombers) (y-wing) against both of which the imperial-class (imperator-class) had no actual defences, while the venator-class did have anti-strike-craft weapons.
Add onto that, that the republic bombers were not just a threat but could actually completely destroy an imperial-class on their own.
Was it really all that surprising that the republic would win such an engagement?
Republic all the way. The incompetence of the empire is a major flaw even when they have superior power or strength than their opponents, mainly caused from inexperience and overconfidence
Wannabe Slav I agree, except if they were fighting against thrawn's tactics
i think that if it would be a long fleet battle then the republic would win because the venator could carry more fighters, bombers and interceptors and don't forget the supplies needed if it would be so
Incompetence ? The republic fleet was being led by Jedi which didnt have no knoledge of warfare. The Empire has great tactitians as Thrawn, Veers and Tarkin. Not counting the superior technologie and power. The republic wouldnt stand a chance.
@@rafaelroriz6622 everyone in the Empire is a rival all looking to take advantage of a situation and one up each other. Each person you listed is an amazing officer and commander, but none of those people are included and neither are the jedi. Anyways everyone in the Republic are experienced from the war, the Empire is mainly busy with fighting pirates and a few rebels every once and awhile
Wannabe Slav yeah, but they have studied for the wars and trained for it. The Empire has won the major battles against the rebellion, which used guerrila warfare. In s total war the empire would win for sure.
Pity they didn't keep the Venators. One ISD flanked by two Venators would be far more dangerous than either one separately. The ISD could do the heavy damage, and with the pinpoint defences and the number of fighters of the Venator very few could ever touch the ISD while it was pounding them into oblivion.
You should compare to the first order as well
Never forget that an Imperial Navy Battlegroup never consisted of just 1 ISD, more like 0-1 ISD, 1-2 Victory Class Cruisers assisted by a few Corvettes and Frigates, if lucky they even sported one of the more specialized ships like the Gladiator Carrier Star Destroyer or Onager Class Star Destroyer.
It would still be hard to beat the Republic Fleet when matched in size, but it's far less one-sided.
Yea but we almost never see a full battlegroup get used just because of how spread out the Empire was, if it was a fully specialized and supported Empire battlegroup versus a fully supported and specialized Republic battlegroup that would be around 1 ISD, 1 or 2 Victory IIs, 2 or so Arquitens, a couple Gizantees (i know thats not spelled right) and MAYBE a quasar, plus the ~120 fighters vs 3 Venators, ~4 Arquitens, if late war then maybe a Victory I or Imperator, possibly a Dreadnaught crusier because those werent as prominent in dedicated Venator groups but were literally all over the place during the war, we just dont see them, and the ~1300 fighters that comes with that. If they had the same number of fighters and the empire has an ISD I they could win with a skilled admiral, but with their full complement of fighters theres just so many fighters and bombers that the Empire wouldnt be able to do anything, especially if its an ISD II
What about sith empire (swtor) vs Galatic republic (clone wars)
Did anyone else hear goodtimewithScar’s super fast build mode?
Damn that’s one big Christmas tree in the background
If we were talking about a full-scale war between the republic and the imperials say for example two competing galaxies vying for control then I would probably have to give it to the republic, but only going into a hair slim margin the victory. The empire, if it went out on a full-scale war, has overwhelming, sheer brutality, fire power, and armor will prove to be a very deadly and dangerous thing, but the republics better leader ship, better Starfighters, and also has the assistance of the clone army and Jedi. I find it ironic that’s the empire switched it’s methods to the Tarkin doctrine and the rebels took up the starfighters, carriers, hit-and-runs, and had great leadership and the empire use to follow those very same methods. The Republic embodies the Empires weaknesses and the Empire was the embodiment of the Republic’s weaknesses.
Well, as with most comparisons like this, even with all things considered equal (like having equal numbers and a fair representation of the average leadership both sides would be having, rather than just focusing in on particularly talented commanders and Grand Admirals like Thrawn) there can be ways to make both sides win through, depending on many factors. Starting positions, strategic objectives throughout the conflict, deployment choices and ship to ship engagements. Undoubtedly, there are glaring advantages for both the Republic and the Empire. You covered these effectively and I'd argue most of them would end up resulting in the outcome you guys have come to (that the Republic would typically hold the advantage, in spite of facing many scenarios where they will be tactically outgunned) Imperial military doctrine was simply too aggressive and arrogant in the main, yet lacking the genuine flare and independent creativity of the Republic. Continuously dealing with situations where the CIS Navy outnumbered them _literally_ 100 to 1 on a galactic scale, the Republic Navy had to be very efficient with it's resources and manpower.
Depending on which CIS propaganda one could read, the numerical disparity between the Clones and Droids in general would be far worse than 100 to 1 (in the most worrisome claims of General Grievous; at least in Legends) Canonically, let's just say the CIS strategically had a 100 to 1 numerical advantage on your average day at the height of the Clone Wars. Did this mean that _all_ 100 of those units theoretically capable of being used against every one Clone, would always be available? No. The CIS had so many droids that they could hardly even keep track of them all. Suffice it to say that large numbers of droids were held in reserve or storage, and that they wouldn't always be able to simply swarm over the Clones.
It does seem somewhat convenient that this is the case, because even incompetent leadership could see victory with those kinds of numerical advantages being so massive and universal across the board. Point is, that hardened the Grand Army of the Republic under the duress of constantly being dangerously outnumbered. It forced them to be sparing, smarter and decisively effective, where possible. Add to this, that the Clones were a cut above the later Imperial military by and large, and far superior to droids unit to unit. The idea of several million clones somehow being the total number is laughable, however, and I always just considered that dubious writing (deliberately making things ambiguous to not have to be pinned to a specific number)
Billions of clones would be required really. The difficulty in a franchise visualising that, however, means we only ever see small fractions of such a force ever put to the big screen. Space battles involving hundreds of starships should have been far more common, with the numbers available, even with the scale of galactic warfare and thinly dispersed fleets kept in mind. The Empire struggled to patrol their space with over 25,000 ISD's and a plethora of literally hundreds of thousands or even millions of varying smaller vessels, with literally billions and trillions of crews and troops. What we see with the Republic Navy and the Clones, was an army hardened in constant fighting and a fighting force worked up to a state of high readiness, tactical brilliance (often, at least) and hard won skill in taking on far larger enemy forces and _still_ winning.
The Republic Navy would be far more akin to the Rebel Navy, in being the underdog force - only hilariously superior to the Rebel Navy. They had several thousand Venators and many thousands of smaller vessels, but compared to the Empire, they'd be outnumbered sorely. In a realistic scenario where they have their real numbers, then the Empire's sheer might should defeat them. There is only so much standing off and keeping distance Venators can do before the ISD's start chewing them up and knocking them out faster than they can be replaced. Nevertheless, in your scenario where the two factions have equal numbers? Yeah, gotta give that one to the Republic.
If the Rebels managed what they did (with heavy plot armour and the literal will of the Force on their side) then a super sized version of the Republic's forces would be more than enough. Many thousands of Republic ships will inevitably be lost in ship to ship broadsides, yet the overwhelming superiority of the Republic's fighter and bomber craft, will really hit the Empire forces hard. In boarding actions, smaller Clone forces will make a mockery of larger Stormtrooper forces. That said, if each ISD has a legion of troopers, then it'd be a brave Republic admiral who'd think it was a good idea to board - several hundred to several thousand clones attacking the ISD in that small scale scenario, will meet 47,000 crew, officers and troopers on the ISD. Even if they do tear through them, the attrition will be appalling for the Clones too.
What we're really talking about is putting *25,000 ISD's up against 25,000 Venators* (plus the necessary, corresponding, proportionate support ship increases for the Republic Navy, to match the Imperial Navy) It'd be like saying do you want 250 Battleships or 250 aircraft carriers in WWII (and I downscaled the numbers deliberately, to be more tangible to real world historical scales) I mean yeah, 250 battleships would be a total nightmare of a fighting force and you could actually do a scary amount of things with that many of them.
But 250 aircraft carriers? That's a whole other level of strategic capability (obviously both concepts far exceeding real world numbers for any one navy at any one time in any one campaign theatre) On a galactic scale, 25,000 Venators could do a _lot_ and so could 25,000 ISDs. However, as the lore surrounding the Galactic Civil War shows, the ISD's would often be inappropriately deployed (all too often clumsy overkill and excessive force for basic third tier fleet duties, far beneath their scale and grandeur as vessels to really be wasting time with)
Even 25,000 massive capital ships of their nature, were really badly overstretched on a galactic scale. One ISD might patrol ten systems and merely remind the locals who is in charge. The idea of the Empire being overly extended and bloated, is compelling, though I do feel that angle has been taken too far in more apologist world building, to explain away the reason why somehow the tiny Rebel Alliance impossibly beat the Empire. It forces us to really paint a picture of vast scale incompetence and ineptitude on the part of the Empire (to immersion breaking levels of stupidity)
Even with what does confirm that bias, in terms of the obvious Imperial blunders and signs of overconfidence in the original trilogy, it still doesn't quite make up for outnumbering your foe by literal trillions in manpower but still losing. Sorry, still call bullshit on that one (the rebels just had disgusting levels of plot armour let's be real about this) But if the Republic Navy had 25,000 Venators I simply don't see them losing. Large numbers will be lost, and in singular battles, some of the better Imperial Admirals will punch right through the Republic fleets tearing them to bits with overwhelming strengths of broadsides and triangular barrages of death. Yet clearly, the Empire would struggle with the carrier swarm nature of that kind of super sized, scaled up navy. The Empire lost an unfair fight, let alone being forced to deal with even numbers. If the Empire lost VS the Rebels, they'd 95/100 times _almost certainly_ lose VS the Clones.
The sheer number of high quality smallcraft/fighter craft will devastate Imperial fighter numbers and shred the defences away from Imperial capital ships. Although Imperial ships could defeat even the shielding of MC80's with superior firepower (Imperials had better firepower, Rebels had better shields; the trade off), and although this would imply Republic ships would really suffer terribly in many battles in which their armour and shielding will be like tin cans to the Imperials, the superior tactics and fighter/bomber capabilities of the Republic, will badly impact the Imperial Navy. TIE series units will do better VS older Republic units like the V-19 Torrent fighter, but may struggle more with the ARC-170's and V-Wings. Ultimately, the sheer tactical, combined arms vigour of the Republic will go a long way in the comparison.
Losses on both sides will be tragic. However, the Clones will be able to make a mockery of the Empire, while scoring critical objectives. I'd rather have ISD's for many reasons, but rather have the well-disciplined, well-trained Clones at the height of their battle hardened success, than any Imperial force to compare to it.
Trillions of Clones = easy Republic win, end of story. All things considered equal.
Only chance i could think of An imperial win would be if the war is draged on, the Empire produces lots of anti fighter ships
If the Republic fleet was the same size as the imperial fleet, would they still use the same tactics?