Cyberfrog Bloodhoney by Ethan Van Sciver: A Book That Helped Change Modern Indie Comics
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- čas přidán 30. 12. 2022
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In the politically saturated, hostile, and agenda driven landscape of American mainstream comics, readers have been seeking new outlets for media, comics included. And so dawned a whole new wave of independent media. But every big bang must start somewhere and there are several books that helped pioneer the explosion of modern indie comics. But one of the most infamous and most iconic of this modern wave was Cyberfrog: Blood Honey - a book that the mainstream industry desperately wants you to forget.
So let's take a look and let the tears flow.
Dr. Alpha Dead Man's Lullaby Vol 1: www.indiegogo.com/projects/dr...
Voice of Kjell Sinn (Eerie the Ghost): / @eerietheghost8925 - Zábava
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Very good comments. I wish I’d used a few of your ideas! But COMICSGATE is a learning experience for all of us.
Manga > Comicsgate.
Manga is a cultural phenomenon, but not everyone likes Manga. Many people also like Western comics, and that is our audience.
Very true, but I didn't frame my comment as "Manga > Western Comics" :)
@@TheAutistWhisperer You should have. It's like saying BATMAN>ISOM. It's just not a fair comparison.
@@TheAutistWhisperer "Manga > Comicsgate" ???
Then clearly you DON'T understand ComicsGate and why it must exist. But that's OK. ComicsGate is simply NOT for you - so you don't need to be here. Bye.
Easy enough to rip something horrid apart, far more skillful to dissect something excellent
Well, it says something about the current industry that an imperfect comic can utterly devastate the competition.
Doesn't bode well for the mainstream
The "always wear red" rule is genious because cyberfroge his green and tgose are two very complamentry colors that highlight eachother
The contrast will put more of a target on our hero's back if nothing is done about it. This comic seems like a diamond in the rough, and I'm curious to see where the story will go.
I feel like establishing a good status quo is an element that's often over looked in stories especially isekais
The premise of evil alien wasps harvesting humans to make their honey is quite similar to the sort of edgy thing I'd have made up around the ages of four to eight years old. I think it's cool as it gives a very direct and visceral reason to hate the bad guys.
Fun fact: Some bees do scavenge dead animals and use their flesh to make “meat honey.” It’s said to have a “smoky taste.”
Hey Lit Devil, big fan. One thing about BloodHoney I appreciated was it's a great Zero Issue, aka issue #0. It retells the origin while setting up what's coming next. And Ethan has learned so much working with Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns as a storyteller. To Write, Pencil, and Ink, it's covering a lot of ground on a comicbook and I'm totally looking forward to Rekt Planet. And I've backed Reignbow the Brute 2X now. I have faith. EVS is one of my faves for 20 years now. It's great to be part of this and feel like a patron of the arts for a blue collar tradesman.
The prolog needs swapped with a standard first mission/training montage set up. that would do both making the prolog generate a story of how thing started, and set a detailed tone for how such things go in this version. It could be riddled with mistakes for the failure concept, or too easy, make the false positive "you can do it" bit, where just after the pro is left overwhelmed. Lots of ways it could have been made better.
I haven't read Cyberfrog, but based off your review it sounds like a good story in the making. If I get the chance I'll grab myself a copy.
EVS will find this video so useful. Good shit, lit dev!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
Indie creators really need good editors like you.
The Devil certainly never sleeps.
I appreciate your breakdown of the dialogue, it's a great insight into how to write them! From the looks of it the visuals of Cyberfrog can speak for themselves without much exposition.
Very good, singing praises without fan boying and being critical by showing where the story could have been improved. Another "A+" video Litdev!
I’m glad you did an honest review of Cyberfrog. You mentioned what you did like and what you didn’t like 💯 and how it could’ve been better, actual criticism. You should do a review of Isom #1!
This is why I love your channel! Even the greatest of writers can have critique, but you also acknowledge how important the comic was in starting the comicsgate movement! I’ve heard a bit from cyber frog but hearing this plot makes it sound so interesting that I wish to get the comic to read it myself!
I will make sure to take in the lessons from this video so I can apply it to my own work as well! ❤
I can’t wait to see other comic reviews and writing lessons!
Stay great literature devil! ❤❤
Very good. There really isn't much critique within ComicsGate, and this is a pretty good critique of a classic book.
LD will give a you honest review of even his own friends books
Another fine video. The only umbrage I have is your overly technical critique of the opening page. Unlike an SJW comic that opens with bland art and thirty speech balloons full of verbal diarrhea (which you've covered before), the opening speech balloons of Blood Honey convey the emotion you would expect from someone passing on vital information to the survivors of a cataclysm that the speaker had a hand in creating, not just the information. The need for brevity that you mention is that it only takes 8 balloons with limited word count to do it.
The opening balloon is ominous for the listener (hook: death is upon me). The next few balloons convey sympathy, introspection, and regret (the speaker has a soul), then the self-recrimination and mea culpa for what has befallen the future listeners (shame, responsibility, and confession). A robotic recitation of bare-bones facts for maximum efficiency is less humanizing and less impactful for the reader... Who cares to listen to a machine recite succinct lines of error code to the end user when Kjell Sinn, the speaker of the words, is intelligent and self-aware, and seemingly taken by the pain of failure and the need to make amends, presumably after her death? That's pretty good, all in just over 50 words, and much better than "I am Kjell Sinn, I will be dead soon, this is information about your past, end of line".
It's possible EVS could have forgone the foreshadowing opening but he chose to have the story be a historical document left by the fallen, which implies the present of the universe will be presented to the reader at a later date, and now we know it's not going to be good one! A bigger graphic novel may have given Ethan the room he needed to flesh out the story more, but he went with the standard comic format and he seemingly got in there everything he needed to build the universe he wanted. Anyway, I did like the video, I think you raised many good points and critiques that EVS can digest (pacing is a good thing), and I'm looking forward to your Rekt Planet review. Cheers!
This is an excellent analysis and review. Good stuff.
Glad you enjoyed!
What a perfect way to kick off the New Year!
I thought it would be a fun idea lol
I really liked Bloodhoney but these story tweaks would elevate it the next level. Maybe one day when the story is complete a compiled "directors cut" could add some of these ideas without having to change the art.
honestly I couldnt really pin down why I didnt like the first issue of cyber frog at first but your review of it really helped me understand my initial dissatisfaction with cyber frog thank you 😁
Nice review, I hope you will do Eric July's Isom soon.
I actually forgot to order it lol. But if it's still available, I'll look into getting a copy.
@@LiteratureDevil Cover c is still up on the Rippaverse website.
@@LiteratureDevil you can still get issue 1 cover c on the store and issue 2 going for preorder at the start of june
@@tkim72003 Don't worry. I have a copy now and a review has been written and is currently in production!
@@LiteratureDevil thats great to hear and thanks for the response
There was something about the prolog section which was… meh which is well explained in this video. Chel- sin sacrifice was for sure underdeveloped or if not thought out. I enjoyed the book but I felt the the mid section too cramped too as well. Good critiques LD.
Oh and heather & CF first encounter - shortened and detrimental. This part was much better when it was its own comic for sure.
Your work is just wonderful, thank you.
I finally got to watch this review. Accurate as always. I'm also glad EVS took it in good humor. (I didn't really expect he wouldn't.) I'm looking forward to Rekt Planet and also Dead Man's Lullaby.
Solid video once again.
I'm sorry to see this video didn't get many likes and views. This was a great analysis and very well thought out and presented, but unfortunately the CZcams videos that tend to do the best are videos about bad media and talking about just how much you despise it. Videos about things you like but have some constructive criticism for don't do well, which again is a shame because this was a breath of fresh air for me. I'll just pray lightning strikes and a mob of people come see this video by sheer providential coincidence.
Anyway, enough of that. GOOD JOB LD!
Thanks for this! I am going to pick this up now.
Don't forget about The movie RED and Isom comic.
Turning Red? Working on it now. I'm hoping to get it out this month.
I recall reading it, and liking the art but disappointed that most of it was set up. I appreciated the prologue since the characters were new to me, but I do think your suggestions are an improvement, and we would've gotten more actual story. I agree that the characters were the stand out since they felt like EVS knew who they were.
I trust issues 2, 3, etc. will be better/have more action and plot development... but I haven't bought them yet because I'm waiting for more to come out so I could get them all at once to save on shipping lol.
Thanks, LD. I really liked this video.
"you should get out of here."
"Why should I?"
"If you don't we'll get shipped again."
🤣🤣🤣
Do you think you can write an analysis of Kamen America?
It's possible. I do have most of those, I think.
Thank you
The cream rises to the top, talent will find a way
The irony is that recruitment names are used well in several other stories, so the Solo thing is just incompetence.
I remember one where a guy who has been betrayed and abandoned about four times and punched in the face says “I’m alone” when asked where his people were, but because it was clear no-one was coming to help him, “Alan with a lisp” got shanghied. Hell, if you think about it, the gay name Pastartout shows you that he’s not great at thinking during moments of stress and he has to live with this name and an employer so convinced he knows everything from a rational standpoint that he doesn’t even notice the name.
Had he been only animate around his friends, whittling down to a surly rogue as they dropped away over years, holding onto Hope only because of the chick whose name I forget because she’s boring, before collapsing into a mumbler when finally separated from her might suit the name, especially if we saw him being a great pilot but useless talker at the -flight academy- but perking up when stuck with Chewie on a punishment detail and risking everything to save this newfound friend (and sense of animation) and…I just showed how easy this movie was to write and I’m some schmo on the internet. I’m sad now…
Yup. Recruitment names are some of my favorite elements in war stories. Like the "Joker" nickname from Full Metal Jacket. He was called Joker because he told jokes all the time, even in the face of horror. They usually have a much larger character focused story than "Han has no people." I mean, how many people out there "have no people." Are there just a ton of Solos out there we've never met? lol. If "Solo" had to be a given name rather than a family name - I would assume a cocky guy like Han would give it to himself. Would have made a cool character arc too. A guy who believes he can do anything on his own, then over the course of the money learns to accept others as friends, and this is how he ended up partnering with Chewbacca.
@@LiteratureDevil I was driving towards a more direct idea of “perhaps Han is a very determined introvert but is very much dictated by his friends, so we get his loyalty really brought out by Chewie but his sense of “the right thing” really exemplified by Luke and a sense of nobility beyond simply helping being brought out by Leia. It wouldn’t be that complex because these were already established in the movies but this would be more of a “who you’re with” rather than having them rub off on him in a traditional way.
Notice that whenever he does something you could call reprehensible, he was alone (Greedo being the most obvious).
I’m not suggesting this was a good idea; idve had him rescue Chewie after being expelled for blowing up the mascot moon and damn the costs (I know that was Marks Spince but screw it, it was awesome) or the better option, no prequels, ever!
This might be the prologue of Ethan's next Efap.
When adding up those sales amounts (which assumes price-per-page to be equivalent) were the amounts base on book sales, or did you include the non-book, toy add-ons that people bought, as well as multiple covers in each campaign? I wonder if number of individual buyers is a better metric over dollars raised, but even that has its faults, such as buying copies as gifts.
Well, to each his own. I've seen manga's that has lots of Fluff's in it, my example of this one is the Light Novel Manga, 'Kara no Kyoukai' (OMG, that anime is so good for me- I wish you could tackle on that one too, Sir). A lot of things in that anime is Fluff however it always leads to great climax.
Try that anime guys, its so good!
I agree for the most part. But the purpose of the prolog was to connect what we are reading now with the 90's books. I don't know of another way to do it
“… the once godly mainstream creators suddenly feel chillingly mortal.”
Damn, sir, that’s good prose.
Are there times when fluff can be good?
Couldn't it be argued that, if used properly, it can help extend tension or gradually lower it?
Or would it no longer be considered fluff in that context?
Fluff is never good. If you want to extend tension or lower it, draw a page without dialogue. If there is no story to tell, don't tell it. Show a moment and give it meaning with its own existence.
TL;DR ver: I lack an example, but I wanna say yes
The long ver:
I dunno. I feel like fluff is an element in the writer's toolkit. It's more about where and how much; like how here it was at the beginning and early parts of the comic. Typically I would say these are bad places for fluff.
One could say that ideally no fluff should be in a story, but I feel that brushes off the potential writing opportunities. Then again, maybe people are using a different definition of "fluff writing" than me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't have any examples on hand right now, but I believe there is such a thing as good fluff writing. Though I wouldn't go encouraging writers to go adding more fluff.
Literature devil making being an editor into enteraitning videos XD I wish I got this in my notifactions insread of kratos youtube short.
I think the explanation of the choice of a frog might be better if when Kjell got to earth she encountered human soldiers from something along the lines of Area 51 or MIB. When Kjell shows herself and defends herself* from soldiers likely sent to capture her, only two don't run away in fear. She explains the situation to the people, and they agree to help. However human DNA isn't suited to the technology from Kjell's home world. You have two options here, either the initial subjects have frog and salamander DNA infused in order to increase compatibility, or a nearby frog and salamander also showed bravery and didn't run away and were infused with human DNA of the soldiers who didn't run. This gives us a more interesting reason for why we have Salamandriod and Cyberfrog, but also gives some motivation either retained from who they were, or partially inherited from the original test subjects.
*Have her personal self defense tech broken during the fight too, which will explain why she is unable to properly defend herself later.
The frog and salamander weren't particularly special. Lowest lifeforms. Being Frog and Salamander is an actual detriment to their effectiveness. It's something else that makes them heroes.
@@ComicArtistProSecrets That's actually a very interesting take that I hadn't thought of.
Edit. I'm not a writer, but I try to read a lot so I can understand such things better.
@@Cerebrum123 🤮 You AREN'T a Writer? You do you Buddy!
@@sirangusfungus5471 No, I'm not a writer. Although I do have an idea for a story I would like to write, but it is currently only bare bones. Some character names, a few plot lines, things like that.
Cyberfrog looks like an interesting comic series, but where should I start? Is this a reboot or continuation of the 90s comic?
Why does a narrative and character development need to be driven? Descriptive novels like "god of small things" are very much a slow burn. The primary function of a bubble of words can be to draw your eyes to the illustration around the bubble. Learning photography taught me that a narrative can be told by multiple, wordless, stills: often conveying more information than the relentless motion of film. Motion hides as much as it reveals. Still a great breakdown of a modern classic comic. For me though it is the pictorial aspect I appreciated the most.
I'd love to get a take on how you view Star Wars. The story, I mean. Why Disney is failing to grasp the core concept of what makes Star Wars good? And what made it good to begin with? Something like that
Good review, too bad I had to find out about it from Twitter because CZcams hates both you and Uncle E
I actually liked the prologue the most
12:25 not sure I see a problem with noting what a character can do and then going on to show them doing it later. Certainly better then having a character randomly do something for the first time out of the blue because it is now narratively relevant.
This is why I mentioned that the Rapid Evolve ability could have been better served by showing it off against Rumblebee who is, in Bloodhoney, a throw away villain.
Is Bloodhoney a reboot?
No, it's a sequel to the 90s comics. It's kind of a weird genre shift (from superhero to post apocalyptic) but it's all in continuity.
Wait comics gate was a 2020's thing? Could have sworn it happened years before then
Nope. ComicsGate started in 2016 - 2017.
It started before 2020. But It's the 2020 "era" that it really formed in rebellion against. Kind of like how the 70s, 80s, and 90s eras don't actually fall neatly into their 10 year spans.
I'd call it an ongoing movement.
13:18 If we're not told such info during the prologe it can come off as an ass pull.
Not always the case. In fact, this is how "in medias res" openings work. Ideally, In Medias Res openings are used to introduce the hero and their powers. So, ideally, during an "in medias res" beginning the hero(s) is fighting some throw away minions or a throw away villain. Kind of like an Indiana Jones opening. When it goes wrong is when the hero is faced with a major conflict during the story and they get out of it with a sudden new power. This is why I suggested we see Cyberfrog show us his Rapid Evolution ability against Rumblebee - a throw away villain in Blood Honey. Had Cyberfrog introduced the ability to get out of a major problem or to "magically solve" an issue. That's when were is can feel cheap.
24:10 I 'member, BRZRKR was the only time in the present times where I heard something cool about comics.
Disagree, about the 2-5 lines, its for the reader to world build that the current situation is sh*t. With out it, it could be 'I Kjell Sinn, and my failure didn't effect your life in the slightest.' but sure read the rest of the book anyway.
Great analysis - you should teach a class on this stuff at the nearest non-woke college, if such a place still exists.
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I always skip prologues. They almost never improved my reading experience when I read them. So I stopped reading them.
who?
Too bad EVS can't get his next book out on schedule, too busy starting beef with Iconic Comics ( who actually deliver their comics out on time ) and rolling in super chats.
Well. It's pretty obvious that you're just another one of those "Anti-ComicsGate Weirdos". I'll be blocking you now. Bye.
@@vlweb3d Apparently having standards makes me "Anti-ComicsGate Weirdos" lol
I don't know what this "beef with iconic comics" is, but I doubt that has anything to do with the lateness. That is more to do with being way too ambitious, and getting distracted by having to deal with 5 campaigns of his own, whilst also offering to fulfill his friends' campaigns, and publicising ComicsGate as a whole. If EVS wasn't a slow, meticulous artist, he might be able to get away with it. But something has got to give. And now we have:
Rekt Planet - All creative work completed, but having to negotiate with the printers so that the Chromium covers are perfect (I would guess that no everyone would care about that)
Cyberfrog Toys - iteration number 6 of negotiations with manufacturer (personally, I didn't care about the toys, but I guess it was power-move by EVS, and some people like these things)
Reignbow the Brute - some art has been drawn online, but I have no idea as to %age complete, and what the statuses of the many, many add-ons for the campaign are.
Rekt Planet second chance - I guess this one is relatively easier because it just means adding more covers to existing books
Cyberfrog Toys Second Chance - I guess, ditto
To be honest, if it was just a delay on Rekt Planet, I wouldn't care so much. When EVS was working for DC, he had 8 months lead in time to get his event books out, and they looked fantastic. But he has really got to be realistic about his estimates. He knows he's slow. If it takes 2 years to do a book, then just say at the outset. People generally only get pissed off when promises are constantly broken.
EVS does get a pass from me - up to a point - because he does do a lot for other creators - and not just his chums from DC and Marvel. I would have never heard of people like Michael Bancroft and Narwhal if he hadn't had them on his show.
Anyway, what's Iconic Comics?
@@markbertenshaw3977 Their the publisher of Soulfinder and Kamen America. If you're interested I recommend checking them out.
WAR CAMPAIGNING MUCH? OR IS IT COMPLAINING....MUCH MORE!
By your logic, Twilight is better than all of this because it's made over $3billion.
You're looking at the wrong logic.
@@LiteratureDevil Please, explain.
@@ECOKAI I didn't say Rekt Planet was better because it made more money. It's not even out yet. The point is, many people wanted Cyberfrog to fail because it did so well and it's made by someone they don't like. But the popularity has grown - proving that the indie wave isn't going away just because some people don't like it.
@@LiteratureDevil Ah. I see.
all them comicgaters aren't gonna like this
The only flaw was the prolouge but the rest was awesome. Im pretty sure they'll understand
@@tianixtv nah they’ll refuse to listen to reason. That’s why the industry is burning down around them
Comicsgater here. I find the feedback useful for my own writing
They have no standards.
@@logicmeister1821 good for you man. if only the others were like you.
Oh no your now comicgstes bootlicker hate group member, you spook positively about him!
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