Motorcycles - Vintage vs Modern with Ari Henning | Highside/Lowside
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- What's a better ride? A reliable, modern motorcycle or a classic bike with character? Ari Henning joins Zack and Spurg to debate the matter on Highside/Lowside.
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I loved that Spurg explained to new listeners how points and carbs work. My 19 year old son and I are rebuilding a 1981 Honda CM 400 and he just rebuild the carburetors. He is amazed at how it works. He works on fuel injected cars at school as part of his automotive training, but finds the simplicity (and mechanical complexity) of the carburetors interesting. I have 1 fuel injected bike (R1200RT) and 3 carbureted bikes so I like both. But it is hard to beat the simplicity of my KLR650.
The reason I ride old bikes (1960's Triumphs) is not because they are old, it's because they are rewarding at so many levels. I research them, wrench them, ride them, break them, fix them, modify them and am still smiling.
You sir are a masochist, respectfully. 😂
I think plenty of people want completely reliable, but not perfect.
Also, I think this is also why the air-cooled Royal Enfields are so popular. Modern reliability with thumps and vibrations.
@@JW20236 where are the thumps and vibrations on the 650 twins? Those things feel boringly smooth.
Ride an old bike - you'll get real thumps and vibrations as your hands go numb and mirrors disappear into a blur.
Define "old" @anxiousappliance
My (now sold) 1984 Honda 700SC met all the descriptions Ari listed, but was an absolutely smooth gem of a bike.
@@dirkstuff5820 yes, they are very smooth. I suppose I should have mentioned the classic sound of the twins...
Do you think that a balanced (vibration damping) bike, is a boring bike?
@@anxiousappliance haha
When Zak asked about a unique, low hassle new machine with a vintage vibe that the user could wrench on a bit, I thought of the modern small block Moto Guzzis - V7, V85TT, etc. Air cooled, no chain to mess with but easy to change oil and you can do your own valve adjustments with a screw driver. Plus, it’s a Guzzi which with the exception of the new Mondello and Stelvio, are by definition modernized vintage machines.
My first thought was the V7 also and I also just bought a 2022 V85TT. I love it and it is so enjoyable to ride. The 2016 XSR900 I had was faster, but I wouldn't give my Guzzi up for another XSR.
My 1976 CB750 Super Sport, with its original fuel and ignition system, starts right up and is ready to ride on a cold day. Maintain it right, and it's 95% as reliable as a modern EFI electronic ignition bike.
100 % If maintained correctly.
same with my 78 cb750 ss dead reliable
My 1978 CB750K is awesome with electronic ignition being the only modern upgrade. Kickstart has saved me a couple times too.
I have a 1989 Yamaha FZR1000. I was 22 years old when they came out and lusted after it but could not afford it. Fast forward to 2014 and found one that only had 4,002 miles on it. 10 years later and I am still in love with it. Only new bike I would buy is the XSR 900GP if it came to America with double round headlights.
I recently rode a 2003 Moto Guzzi V11, and that feels like a pretty perfect combination of old vs new. Fuel injection (but with a 'choke' for cold starts), Brembo brakes, shaft drive for convenience, but it shakes like a junkie in withdrawal, sounds like thunder, the clutch and valves rattle and tick. I think quite a few Italian bikes of the 90s and 00s are a great balance of modern/old school.
I'm a new rider and I ride Bonneville T100. Some people might say it's actually not vintage at all, it just looks like an old bike. I say, so what? It's not that I am some vintage hardcore maniac. I also considered Kawasaki Z650RS, but settled on Bonneville. Not because it is more vintage, but because I just like it better. Z650RS felt quite plastic up close, had nowhere near the charm and class of Bonneville.I love Bonneville not because it looks vintage, I love it because it looks great. If all modern bikes would look like that, I'd might buy something else. I think Bonneville not only looks great, it also sounds great, the engine is a peach, with that huge low down torque, it really suits my riding style, I hate to rev the engine high, and the Bonneville just pulls from the bottom. Very laid back, comfortable to ride engine, and bike in general. Why go vintage just for the sake of it, just enjoy the bike the way it is.
But that's just my two cents...
They are both great bikes but the RS would run circles around the Bonnie from a performance standpoint 🙂 Have fun and ride safe brother!
I'd also go for a Bonnie
I've been wanting one for a long time. It just hasn't made sense for me yet. I agree with you on the looks, sound, and torque.
I agree, I own a 2015 Bonnie and it's a total no nonsense bike. Ticks all the boxes on how a bike should be.
In defence of the Honda CB1100. I bought a 2016 model here in NZ not too long ago. The first ride was exactly as you said, a bit vanilla. But the salesman at my local Honda dealer had the wisdom to say take it for the weekend. I'm 61 in a fortnight and got to say Honda knew their target audience. I'll never sell it.
I agree with having both. My 2018 BWM GSA is flanked by my 1973 75/5. And if I had to only have one bike, it'd be older bike to use just around town which puts a smile on my face every time. Drum front and rear brakes and all.
I also think this is why Harley is still around. They still have a lot of that raw feeling. While most have moved away from that.
Keyword "still"...
I like how Ari mentioned smell, that's a big one for me. I'll never forget the first FI bike I bought and going into the garage and not smelling a thing, felt weird.
Shoutout to the Moto Guzzi V7, especially the "Special" trim. Vibrates just right, also longitudinally mounted engine like the R9T, single dry clutch, shaft drive. Most importantly, looks properly retro with the 90 degree V engine hanging out from the sides.
How's the fueling? I've seen videos of people riding it and it doesn't look like it responds like an old cable throttle. But maybe perception is wrong. How's it been in your experience?
I got into motorcycling a few years ago and I started on an xs650 and currently ride a cb550. Starting out and even commuting on a vintage bike is def doable. it's been fun to learn about the details of the bikes and learn how to maintain them. Certain stuff like the mentioned electronic ignition is very easy to get swapped in! I understand wanting the ease of a new bike but I hope folks don't get too discouraged and at least try vintage if they are curious. Plus the financial barrier to entry is much lower and there is a lot more opportunity to customize and tailor an old bike to what you want. Hope this can be encouraging to anyone considering it!
I started on an XS650 too. Really fun bike
The Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 fills the bill for me regarding a mordern retro bike with a few quirks and a simple set up to work on. Not expensive, easy to do maintenance, parts are cheap and it really looks the part as well, people have commented and been very surprised to learn its a '21. And she handles well and has abs and fuel injection.
Ari needs to take some young kid under his wing so that the next generation of motorcyclists have someone like him. we are so lucky right now to have these dudes who are so passionate and knowledgeable about motorcycles.
Young kids need to enter trade school instead of 4-year rip-me-off universities. There's plenty of trade schools with courses for marine, motorcycle, snowmobile, power equipment training where you can earn an associate degree and get in the door at any number of shops.
That is some awesome points. Also Thanks Ari Henning for helping me/teaching me on how to do oil changes, tires, tubes, chain, and so many other mechanical aspects. Thank you and I look forward to the team's future videos for many many years to come. Thank you.
Moto Guzzi is the brand that comes to my mind - particularly the V7 and other small block bikes. Inexpensive, unchanged, unique but reliable and easy to service. To me its the perfect mix of Vintage and modern and is uncommon enough to consistently turn heads.
Exactly why I bought a V85. I get all the modern stuff I want, but the engine still feels rough hewn and primitive.
The humble Sportster. The latest variation is so vintage, the factory service manual recommends checking the rear wheel alignment with a tool you build yourself out of an old metal coat hanger.
That's actually pretty awesome.
Thank you for mentioning the smells of the older bikes, not just the sound and fell. Good call Ari.
Unfortunately my old KLR just smells bad
@@danmanthe9335 hahaha yeah not the character sound, feel and smell he was referring to but will take you places a vintage bike could only dream of. Unless your name is Ted Simon.
@@flat6fever680 facts.
Not motorcycles but cars. I have been out driving my 1931 Model A Ford which is a lot more unusual here in rural SW France that it might be for you in the USA. I own it and drive it because it is such a different experience to driving my more modern cars. Buying a modern car that was designed to look old just wouldn’t do the same job, the vintage car gives you something special for being exactly what it is. I have recently bought a bicycle of a similar age which has two chains, one for pedal power and the other for the @100cc 2-stroke engine that is slung in the frame. I look forward to making memories with that too.
The Ari and Zack, you have been spoiled by the year-round riding in your area of California. In places that require parking a motorcycle for a month or more due to snow, another advantage of fuel injection is not having to draining the carburetors to prevent them from gumming up.
There are two things that I miss from the late 1970's and early 1980's. Comfortable functional passenger seats on most motorcycles. And all motorcycle reviews commenting about the comfort of the passenger accommodations. Zack, thank you for including that information in your reviews. I am someone that always like to have an option to bring a passenger along in a safe and comfortable way. Admittedly was also a lot of fun when my wife was on her own motorcycle. I like seeing couples enjoying motorcycling together, either two up on one motorcycle or on individual motorcycles.
I love that you guys explained Carburation. I daily a 2003 FZ1 to work in SoCal and the carbs can be a pain when it is cold and the gas stations are on winter blend. Pretty amazing the different warmer summer nights and summer blend gas makes to my daily routine. FYI - 134k miles on my Fizzer.
I just bought a 2023 Benelli Imperiale 400 as a second bike, and absolutely love that little bike .... now that looks like a classic
I have just come back from a week long camping trip on my Honda 500X. It is old school enough for me, it has a simple engine and no electronic interference other than SBS. It’s a great real life motorcycle, even when you ride it hard you are not going to end up in jail and most of the time is achieves about 90 miles on one (British) gallon of petrol. It tool me around beautiful mountain roads in the Black Forest, on roads in the foothills of the alps in Austria and when I set out on a 500 mile one day journey home along windy backroads I was so glad that I had that Honda reliability, the reliability that allowed me to enjoy the journey like a real motorcyclist. I could not have trusted a modern Royal Enfield or Triumph in the same way.
TW200s are still carburated, as are 14 of the bikes in our garage. Long live the parallel twin 2 stroke road bikes, points and condensers.
Moto Guzzi hit the spot quite nicely with the V7
Perfectly.
I just bought a 2019 Royal Enfield Classic 500. Truly a classic, but it has fuel injection and ABS. It also has a kick start! It fires up everyday, feels old, and is a ton of fun to ride!
The new Triumph Scrambler 400 X has a nice vintage look and sounds great, but is so much better than my 1968 BSA Shooting Star 441. Starts every time, doesn't leave an oil slick on the floor, handles great, water cooled, great brakes with ABS, cheap to buy, 80mpg, and low vibration. Nostalgia is great in theory but today we have such great options.
Get an old Buell or XR1200, super fun and so many people love them. Old school feel, fast and fun
Get an XL. Any XL. Doesn't get any more vintage than that :)
You'd have to pay me to look at a Buell again.
My 1984 Nighthawk was a better bike in every way than my Buell.
@@JoshuaTootell definitely didn’t sound as mean as a Buell or XR though.
I had an 2016 XSR900, not what most consider a classic but I do. I loved the engine that sat under an unassuming looking motorcycle. Mine was the brushed aluminum which made it look even better. Added the Yamaha clubman’s and put trick onlins suspension with steering damper. What a bike
Right there with ya. Plus, you can paint the panels and rear fender, switch out the front fender, change….etc. Still my favorite bike. Can’t sell it.
@@user-hf8ie8mf3n I would love to find another, I was t boned by a BMW SUV in a Denver neighborhood and the bike was destroyed. Enjoy yours and ride safe!
Back in the 70s, it was a pain to adjust the points on my 73/74 RD350. BUT, after it ran, Sooooooooo good that it was worth the trouble.
Great discussion. I think there’s a lot to like about retro styled machines but with modern fuel injection, good brakes, and solid reliability. Personally, I couldn’t own a bike I’d have to wrench in all the time, because I just have the spare time to work on it. Let alone wrench and still have time to go ride.
I ride a BMW R nineT Pure. It’s a nice blend of retro and modern in my opinion, and very reliable, which is hugely important to me since it’s my daily rider, weekend twisty road sporty bike, and touring machine all in one.
Honestly, riding these modern "vintage bikes" it's so obvious it's not an actual vintage bike. If you ride a bike, even say, from the late 80s you will feel the frame flex in the corners, the shitty brakes when stopping etc. and it's clear it's less refined. I don't think any modern bikes feel the same, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Bikes have developed and become safer, more powerful, better and stopping etc. and all that is good. There is an argument for an air cooled Harleys or other similar bikes that are modern, but have a character. Test riding something like SV650, I get the feeling like this is sort of the "a motorcycle". Standard riding position, easy to ride, responds well, but nothing to evoke any feeling. If you jump on a similarly aged Harley for example, the shake and shitty brakes etc. does give it more character, and in my opinion, make it more fun even though it's objectively worse.
This is extremely validating. I have a 2014 bonneville and have done all of the maintenance UNTIL the valves. Then I took it in. But oil, chain, sprocket replacement, and even replacing the gear selector control (not just the pedal but by opening up the transmission).
Nice to have modern comforts but get to dabble in the “vintage” world.
I have a 1983 Kawasaki 750 Spectre. It runs as fast, corners as well and is smoother than some modern V-Twins I could mention. 1980's UJM's were the best.
Good discussion. One bike can never do it all. My go-to, everyday is a 2007 919. Trouble free. I bought my first vintage project bike a few years ago (1985 Nighthawk S), got it running and really, really enjoy it as well. It is a totally different experience, and definitely has a smell. Once you get a carbed bike sorted they stay that way without a lot of fuss if you keep up with the basics. Also have a dual sport which is for its own stuff entirely.
I have a few old machines and I’ve learnt about these in the last 8 years it’s just a great experience riding something before my time 😊 learning to ride and repair
Great hobby
I also have a new retro for worry free riding happy day 😊😊
I’m 75, after a lifetime of BMWs, Ducatis, KTMs and Husqvarnas I’m on a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. I can’t complain, it’s a great bike after getting it sorted. Maintenance is a snap and it’s very comfortable.
Royal Enfield is no joke. I don't know if this is other-level than just 'wrenching' on it, but in Asia and other places many riders modify them like crazy. It is a simple design, and cheap. You can take it reliable and easy out of the box, or you can mess with it and be creative. That kinda blends vintage and modern worlds.
My personal preference is my Honda CBX..One of the most iconic bikes Honda ever produced, looks great, draws a crowd wherever it goes & is my personal favorite bike of all time..I've owned over 200 bikes in 40+ years & nothing still makes me smile every time I look at it & ride it..Ofcourse it's heavy & complicated for what it is, but that's what you get when you buy one..Yes, it's no fun to work on, but that's where you learn your bike, mechanical skills & patience..Vintage motorcycles is where it's at for me.
I Currently "Sunday ride" a 1994 Xr650L. That thing still fires every single time I need it even with 6 months old California fuel in it, it really doesn't care. I would like something newer, smoother and fuel injected.
I daily a carbed KLR and ride it over 130miles per day all year around. It has absolutely NO issues.
Vibration, oil/gas smell, bad brakes, cable controls, a Motorcycle! The newest motorcycle I have ever owned Is a 1982 Honda 450 Nighthawk. I rode It from San Bernardino CA to Tampa FL with no trouble other than the 70+ MPH fall I had in Houston TX. A clutch lever, shift lever and a whole lot of frogger on I -10, everything was fine. I don't get new bikes. I have over 70,000 miles that I have put on my '76 Goldwing. 96,078 showing as I write. I watch these videos thinking could I, should I, buy something new? The only bikes that are tugging at me are the TW200 and the 125 Trail. My past ownership has me leaning for the Honda.
Royal Enfield Classic 350. New for $4000.00 if you look around. Slow and reliable. EFI, electronic ignition, 3 year warranty. Handles good, decent brakes. A beautiful little bike. It’s as retro as you can get IMO.
I am still running a carbureted bike and I have to say, on rainy and cold days, I absolutely wish I had FI. But at the same time, it's kinda nice when people sit on the bike and have to ask me how to start the thing coz you gotta blip the throttle at the right intervals and pull the choke in and stuff like that,
I'm surprised Sportsters don't get a shout-out as a good balance between retro and modern. While I wouldn't want one as my only bike, I'm happy having a '04 XL1200r as one of three bikes as it's been super reliable and has an authentic vibe (literally) that fully modern bikes don't have. '04 is old enough to still be carbed (07 and up are FI), but having to twaddle with the choke at startup is just part of the charm. Finally, you can pickup nice examples for little $.
The Suzuki DR650 still uses a carb and it's been around so long that practically qualifies, perhaps not as a vintage bike, but certainly as an old classic. The Kawasaki W800 is also worthy of a mention. IMO, the very best looking modern retro is the Meguro K3, but Kawasaki keeps it for its domestic market in Japan.
Started riding when the norm was to pull the choke, turn the key, kick the starter, and revving an engine that required "Point, Plugs and Condensers" for a tune up.
Kawasaki w800 - under rated but you can get a 2020 for 5k that feels like a 70's machine without any issues. I do have a 1971 BMW R60. Very different type ride and its more of the experience. Not something you'd use for commuting or daily use
It's a long story, but I stumbled upon a 2015 W800 which I purchased purely on the basis of prices, mileage and condition. What a brilliant bike. Why aren't these things everywhere?
Absolutely love my 2021 r9t Urban GS. It is the right level of feeling the ride IMO.
Give me a modern bike every time. They're a pain to work on, but I do it all in the winter when I can't ride anyway. Old bikes are great to watch other people riding
Gives me a new appreciation for my drum-brake, points-fired, carburetted, vibration-prone stinky 1973 Honda SL350K2.
Excellent Topic.
Have a 1978 Suzuki GS750 and a 2018 GSX-S750Z in the garage.
The GS750 has a skid plate, knobbies, added electronic ignition, and does gravel and moderate off-road well. 6.5" ground clearance and stock forks/shocks with 4.5" of travel will need to be remedied at some point.
But it's really nice to have grandma and granddaughter parked side by side.
I'm with Ari here. People ride what they want to ride, but when they start thinking their "old looking" bike is really like an old bike, I get a little perturbed. They should have an "old bike mode". where random things can happen: find a pool of oil in your garage coating your rear tire, or it doesn't start a few days out of the week, or lights go dark and it stops running on a rainy night. So much fun!!!! or buy a KTM...
I’m vintage (73), the only bikes that oldsters can ride are modern vintage bikes. The rider triangle has shrunk and arthritic wrist and shifter toes suck. My two modern vintage bikes are 100th anniversary Scout and 2012 Royal Enfield Classic Chrome 500 with sidecar, both with heel toe shifters. Requiem’s for crippled old fart bikes are open upright riding position, no more than 500 lbs and a dct would be a plus. I’ve rode motorcycles from the 60’s, 70’s, when they were new. My first street bike was a new 66 Triumph Bonneville when I got my learners permit at 15 1/2. My daily rider is a Ctx700nd which I removed the stupid looking headlight in exchange for a round traditional one.
As someone who owns a 72 Triumph Tiger, it’s a challenge needing both Witworth, and Standard wrenches and sockets to work on it.
I bought my first motorcycle in 1976. I love that there are people who lovingly maintain and ride those old machines but it's not for me. I have a friend with a 70s vintage Bonneville that hasn't been ridden for years. He'd like to ride it but he's busy running a business and getting a shop to keep it running hasn't been successful. I don't mind working on motorcycles but it's something I do so that I can ride motorcycles.
Modern things are great when they work, great if you are rich, great if you don't have a garage. All of my air cooled machines only required the OEM tools in the little kit supplied with the bike. All the fasteners were reusable, no "single use" stuff. Everything was easy to get to, replacement parts if needed, were dirt cheap. No computers or diagnostic electronics were needed to assess the issues. I've had ECU's, EFI, electronic ignition components fail, bricking my cars/bikes. Some had to be junked because of the replacement parts being unavailable, impossible to fully diagnose because of complexity or no access to computer related software tools, or simply too expensive to buy. Give me carbs, chokes, points and condensers any day over a CanBus modern BMW in need of repair, lol
I have few old 2T, they are fun to ride and to work on them too, they do smell, they have theyr tricks, and they turn heads, the older guy's know exactly how hard it was do deal with them when they were new, and i get thumbs up every time i paddle along
I have some modern Honda's a couple of vespa's and recently added a Triumph T120 and a Royal Enfield Classic 350. The Triumph has the look and vintage feel but the Royal Enfield is the true modern old bike. The only issue with the 350 is power but the sound and feel of that thumper puts a smile on my face every time I ride it.
My problem is that I daily ride a '79 Honda CB750 - but being an old fart, I don't think of it as "vintage." Sure, injection would be easier (slightly), but I do find that carbs don't really have too much of a problem when they're used often. The biggest issue with them as far as running well is concerned seems to be fuel that sits too long (and presumably ethanol hasn't helped in that regard at all.) That said, I still think the Honda CB1100 is the closest thing to a "modern vintage" bike - maybe a Power Commander would wake up the engine a bit? Not that I'm likely to ever do over 100 anyway, but having it with a little surge in the top end, maybe pushing the redline back up to 9500 like the old 1100s from the '80s did...I think that would fix a lot of complaints. What we really seem to want is a new chassis for better handling and braking, with an old engine for its character - and what we get, because of emissions regulations, is the exact opposite - old-school handling and braking, married to a clean but uninteresting motor.
Maybe I'll find myself an 1100 from the 80s...but then there's those pesky carbs to choke on cold mornings.
Yamaha SR 400 is as retro as I need to go. Love the style, and the fuel injection.
In my mind, a proper vintage bike would be a very early 80's Suzuki GS or Honda CB air-cooled four-cylinder that needs some restoration work, needs some open-engine gasket and top end work, fresh carburetor rebuild and jetting, but when fully assembled and refreshed, would be very improved with some modern suspension help and brakes. That way the powerplant is emitting all the old school vibes, sounds, throttle responses of an early air-cooled engine but is acceptable enough in power and smoothness to be appreciated as being a more advanced technology for the era.
Something like an early GS550. Rebuild/restore, but go even further as a resto-mod that blends the advanced suspension and brakes of the modern time with old school power and fuel control. Advanced enough, but old enough. I would even rip apart the instrument display pods, lights, needle backers and restore those pieces (plastic clarity, paint markings, remove corrosion, refresh LED or incandescent bulbs, wires, etc). Freshly upholstered seat foam and cover, LED bulb conversions. Truly old bike with some fresh technology. Using modern machining and assembly techniques, I believe something from the early 1980's can be made better than factory of the time.
Love the classic look, but with the modern reliability and cleaner operation
Talk about gas smells and not mention the tickler on the bottom of the carburetors? If memory serves, the 1960's Bonneville and BSA 441 Victor both needed to be "tickled" to flood the bowls with gas before kicking them to life. Another old classic ritual was kicking yourself into a coma when they wouldn't start. Riders were in better shape back then. Constant exercise!
My 1981 Yamaha xs850 was by far my favorite bike to ride. I'm 35 and owning fuel injected and headach carburetored bikes... Nothing beat that rawness rumble and feeling almost unexplainable to others of the xs850. Truly amazing and if I understood carb syncro better I'd buy another.
I think if you want to wrench on a bike, you should really choose an air cooled bike. I personally own a Suzuki GS500E and Honda VT600C and the Honda being water cooled, it's a million time more time consuming to drop the engine and do repair on the bike, than the air cooled Suzuki. I would not consider rebuilding carbs, chain adjustments etc. mentioned really "wrenching on a bike", I see that more as standard maintenance, but perhaps my standard is somewhat different from your average rider.
Call me crazy, but if you want a “vintage” experience in a modern bike, it’s pretty hard to beat an air cooled sportster. It shakes, it smells, it stops for shit, and it’s the closest you’re gonna get to knowing what it was like to ride motorcycles in the 50s,60s, and 70s. If you don’t wanna mess with a carb, the FI sportys are great too. Ask me how I know. 😎
Prior to getting this bike when my uncle passed I would’ve never wanted a Harley. But now that I own one, I understand the appeal. But I don’t dress in all black, I don’t have a “thin blue line” sticker on my truck or bike, and I sure as hell don’t have a punisher skull anywhere on the bike or kit either 😂 screw those kooks.
I feel like the best way to walk the line between old school bikes with character and brand new bikes that are way too refined is to build a restomod. Get an old bike, give it some upgrades and smooth out certain things, but keep the original feel. Maybe brakes, suspension, electronic ignition. But keep the carbs, the controls, and the looks.
I generally think you guys give good advice most of the time, but I disagree on this one somewhat.
If you manage to find an unmolested Japanese UJM from the early 70's to the mid 80's and you understand how to do maintenance then what you're getting is 100% as reliable as anything sold today, and likely more reliable than a lot of new bikes just due to how much less complicated they were.
You won't get ride modes, which you don't need. You'll have a choke, which is only adding one step to the startup procedure and really is no big deal. You'll have carbs. Ok, so don't let fuel sit in them and gun them up and you'll likely have a nicer feeling throttle. They only need synced when they've been messed with. Again, not hard.
People talk about how much better the chassis and brakes are on newer bikes and that's a fair point - if you're taking it to a track day. If you're riding beyond the capability of a 70's air cooled inline four then you are likely doing things that aren't appropriate for the street.
I ride two bikes, a 1998 H-D Road King last of the carbureted models, and a 2022 BMW R1250 R. These two bikes are as different as night and day. I Love land ride them both..
Vintage bikes generally vibrate and leak oil and breakdown often. If that's your thing then you might also enjoy beating yourself off with sandpaper - as a friend of mine said "it will feel good when it stops!" I would take a modern classic over an old bike any day of the week. I am your dads age and at 18 I was setting up timing marks and points with a dial gauge on my RD400 - it's fun when you are young and have loads of time but these days I just want the bike to run and not spend a ton of time maintaining a bike.
Kawasaki Z900RS is my modern retro choice.
It is the lack of electronic gizmos, analogue rev and speedo, the bench seat and the 4 cylinders that is appealing to me.
I really enjoyed that discussion. I have some old bikes, 1950s and 60s BMW, and they are fun to ride. However, they are less reliable (actually not bad) and definitely not as safe. They don't stop handling okayish. Modern bikes require very little maintenance but are much safer, especially if you are new to riding.
The thing that turns me off to modern bikes is the weight. A 60s Bonneville weighed around 370 lbs. A modern one is pushing 500. The closest match to a 60s Bonnie with a modern Triumph would be to get a new Speed 400. Nearly the same weight, close in HP, almost identical wheelbase.
Something I've noticed is the people who claim they want that "vintage feel" often refuse to perform the basic maintenance that all motorcycles old or new require. The bread and butter of my shop is oil changes tires and services most people just don't have the time to do these simple jobs.
I had a Ducati 450 Desmo Sport in the early 70's. Kicking a single with no decompression lever (because of desmo valves), oil changes every 1500 miles and ergonomics that bordered on"cruel and unusual punishment" was a challenge, which is what made it fun -- kind of like running a marathon or climbing Half Dome.
I love classics and enjoy the tinkering that comes with them. I also love the reliability of a modern machine. One can never have enough bikes
3 of my most favorite people in the motorcycle world
Thanks guys… made a load of sense!!! Ari as always… you rock 🤘
I love my DR650. Unchanged since 1996 and you can still buy a new 2024 model.
Carbureted, air/oil cooled, simi-frequent valve adjustment, easy to work on, runs forever, relatively light, no fancy TFT display to distract you (or tach for that matter) and a huge mod community to customize it any way you want. I did the adv/commute to work thing for a while, now I've striped it down and gone super moto and having a blast.
Yes I'm old, been riding since the mid 80s and owned a lot of what you now call vintage bikes. However, I would have purchased a XSR900 GP if they brought it to the US, but still kept my DR.
For me the winning combination is an old motorcycle with some modern improvements. Just like that 1974. Honda 250 that Ari was fixing up. Above all, upgrade carburetors whit flat slide, or eletronic fuel injection, shock absorbers for beter handling and brakes. In my case it's a 1980. Honda cb900f, only I don't have the funds and I don't know someone like Ari to bring it to the condition I want.
There are still a few Carbie bikes around and only recently the Royal Enfield moved to Fuel injection on the Himalayan and the 650 Signals retro style scrambler , but having said that many government regulations on pollution emissions globally are forcing all but race style motocross bikes to move to FI.
In Aus we still have small capacity Carbie bikes coming into Australia even now but few in make and number. Many of those still carburetor bikes being Chinese bikes.
I've been riding since the 1960's, and have owned 200 of the rascals... I've bottomed out on my "vintage" 1996 MZ Skorpion 660. It reminds me of my younger years, with less vibration, electric start and the tightest chassis that I've ever ridden. Light +torque =fun.
For me I would pick Triumph's Speed Twin 1200 and Scrambler 1200 as choice of modern classic.
It gives me a modern look and still not too fancy tech. It feels like a motorcycle that I want and to ride with wind blowing on my face and yes of course with a helmet on.
Having grown up on motorcycles since my first new '69 DT1, and having owned 42 other bikes since, I prefer real, modern bikes, that don't leak or try to kill the rider. The new middleweight twins are amazing, and I will likely get one next spring.
I've made a lot of motorcycle changes in the last few months. I traded my Royal Enfield INT650 for a Yamaha MT-07 and I traded my 1981 Suzuki GS750 for a 1975 Honda cb750k. The Suzuki was a lot of fun, but it wasn't what I wanted. I've been wanting a sohc cb750 for many years and I finally just decided to get rid of the Suzuki. I don't know if I'll ever go back to a modern vintage, but I will probably be buried with my Honda. I've upgraded to electronic ignition, btw. Not dealing with points.
I have a 2001 Kawi W650 with scrambler pipes, the quintessential modern retro ride
After an ST1300, FJ-09, CBR1100XX to name a few. I'm now on an antique 92 Honda CB750 Nighthawk. I avoid ALL the valve adjustment issues, but you still have to be comfortable with pulling a bank of carbs and breaking them down. With a richer rejet it barely has to be choked or warmed up and runs better than all the FI bikes I owned. The CB1100 was tempting but there the cams have to come out again and barely has more power than my 750.
So at 60 now, Ill take my actual antique not fake vintage bike.
The answer is always moto guzzi
Most guzzis tons of old school vibes and a great balance of character
W800 all day long !
It's almost painful listening to this and reading peoples' comments knowing full well that the bikes I grew up on are now considered vintage. I can see why there's such a strong lean toward the look - it's classic and it never goes out of style. If someone were to recreate a modern day Vincent Black Shadow, people would be all over it. The truth is that few people today would ever tolerate the crap we had to deal with as young riders - points, carbs, inner tubes, valve adjustments, knowing full well that we could be left stranded on the side of the road at any moment. If you want to embrace everything motorcycling has to offer, get a vintage bike and learn how to fix it and have it as a second bike. If you want to ride, just get a new bike and enjoy the adventure.
My Motoguzzi V7 cafe racer gives me this feeling.
As a long-time sufferer, 1970s vintage BMWs manage to simultaneously feel both vintage and modern. My oldest motorcycle, which started life as a 1973 R75/5, is that cable braked, oil perfume smelling oldtimer. With all that, with proper maintenance it stops hard (once - before drum fade kicks in), and, after some period correct intelligent modifications, is actually a smooth motor with an actual powerband. That bike's big brother, a 1975 R90S, has better brakes, chassis and power, and is as exciting to ride as anything I've ridden (third gear power wheelies, anyone?). The period Del 'Orto accelerator pump carbs really do hit hard at almost any RPM, and the riding position - considering it was the first AMA Superbike title holder -- is as comfortable as any moto ever made.
Would I want to own a BSA or Norton Big SIngle? Noooope.
But these two airheads stand with one foot in each camp, and suit me just fine. I get an enormous grin on my puss every time I ride them.
Can't wait for new season to continue ❤❤❤
Indian does a pretty good job with the thunderstroke models
I have a Yamaha R15 2022, and the Indian service manual requires valve checks and oil changes every 3000km. The ABS system really prevents access, so I'm taking the engine out twice per year. It also has a big bore upgrade, which mucks up the balance a fraction, but it feels like a thumper especially red lining at 50km/h in first gear. It is a mini-bike with 17 inch wheels and therefore a hoot around the city.
If you want a new bike that will help you learn how to wrench, the CSC San Gabriel 250 might be a good option. Single-cylinder, carbureted, air-cooled 250 that is really simple and easy to work on.
Fellow CSC SG-250 owner here.
I request that Ari works on a topic
“Engine flushing “ when to do and when not to do, why and why not