Rory Sutherland - Are We Now Too Impatient to Be Intelligent? | Nudgestock 2024
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Rory explains how we weight information that appears quickly over knowledge that really matters.
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Nudgestock is the world's biggest festival of behavioural science and creativity, where we inspire brands and people to impact the world.
Curated by Ogilvy Consulting, Nudgestock is back for its 12th year - and this year, we're uncovering the hidden power of Time.
To many of us, time is nothing more than a series of moments. But look at it through the eyes of a behavioural scientist and you'll see it holds untold influence. Time is me and you. Time is your customers and citizens. Time is what makes businesses thrive and brands iconic.
Put simply… the more we understand how we humans are shaped by time, the more we can wisely spend our own. Are you ready to harness the power of time?
For the full speaker list, details and more, visit www.nudgestock.com
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About Ogilvy Consulting’s Behavioural Science Practice
At Ogilvy Consulting, we work to creatively apply behavioural science insights to solve the world's most pressing and interesting challenges.
A magical combination of science and creativity, we are a unique global team of psychologists and behavioural economists embedded within the Ogilvy network. We bring proprietary tools, proven experience, expert facilitation and the power of Ogilvy creativity to unlock the hidden 'psychological power' within our partners' brands and channels.
We create unseen opportunities that generate giant impact.
Email daniel.bennett@ogilvy.com to work with us.
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Excellent…..the massive value of Rory is that I always walk away thinking “I’ve never thought of it like that before”
at this level of automation, we need more people who can have that kind of impact over their peers
I would question that further because maybe the reason you haven’t thought of it like that before is due to all the reasons making you think of it the way you do.
DO we want to spend a third of hour day squished among other commuters on trains, for the “scenic” route that someone squished up by the window may be able to acknowledge?
We don’t “assume” speed is a priority, that’s the point of the mode of transportation.
@@Liusila Thanks @liusila...True but I guess that's my point really. The value of videos and conversations like this is getting me to challenge my assumptions. Much as I try to see the world through a new lens or filter as often as I can, I'll end up surrendering to habit and false assumptions e.g. the folks who invented this (whatever) it is a clever and therefore it's the best solution they could come up with at that time. BUT, if we understand that they are deploying a high level of 'logical' thinking to address the task then we can see, a little clearer, the gaps in their thinking and action from an innovative creative perspective.
I’ve only recently discovered him, I love his perspectives
Dear all CZcamsrs, this is how to be a good presenter: knowledge and personality in balance (but aim high rather than low). Such an enjoyable and thought provoking talk ...
I love his speedometer demonstration. I internalised this at a very a young age thanks to a brilliant maths teacher called Dust Miller, who called it the law of diminishing returns: Each doubling of speed saves half as much time as the previous doubling but, thanks to air resistance consumes four times as much fuel.
I've heard this before but I just don't get it. How can the time saved not increase linearly (disregarding air resistance)?
@@axeenj Imagine you 2x the speed. Instead of 20 minutes, your ride now takes 10 minutes. Double the speed again, and it now takes 5 minutes. Congrats! You saved 5 minutes! But your first increase gave back 10 minutes.
@@rafaeld9265 Ahh, of course. Thanks.
This is like what TED talks used to be.
…yeah until the cancer of ‘Ted X’ bollocks came along.
Now they are a joke
Another example of retroactive slogans :D
I'm from Poland.
British speech is like music for my ears but to hear British people swear... it's just marvelous :3
Not very inventive though....
@@ileanamuntean7338Just like your comment
@@ileanamuntean7338British people have the most inventions in recorded history followed by France then Germany then USA and china last
Also from Poland. Which British comedian compared swearing to ketchup? A little enhances the food, too much drowns the food. Lovely metaphor.
@@TheMagicJIZZ Your talking in the past , just like banging on about winning the World cup ( 1966) , China is way ahead today.
26:48 A neighbour of mine got a text message from someone who had walked past their house and wanted to buy it. That was not well received. I remember thinking they should have sent a hand-written letter, as I once did when I inquired about renting an idyllic cottage from an old lady. Worked for me. The difference between a text message and a hand-written letter is enormous.
Depends what age the recipient is
@@nicolarollinson4381 Maybe. I'm older than 30 and I'd be unimpressed by a text message.
@@ximono fairy snuff 😊
I think it’s also the reason they want to buy. If they are just flipping a house a hand written letter is not going to matter as much as if they love the area or the house.
@@AmyFerguson True. And if they're just flipping houses, they're not likely to write a sincere hand-written letter.
The 30 minute product presentation and the written essay is what we call "proof of work" in computer science - it's a brilliant way to achieve decentralised concensus, thus avoiding the "mob rule", i.e. 51% majority deciding over 49% - this often happens when one just leave people to vote without putting in any work (e.g. researching the options), then the votes will be "cheap" and the winning strategy is populism - that's why we see so much of that in politics. Winning by 51% is so common because people have vastly different preferences. The candidates offering faster/cheaper solutions win over candidates who would be really solving problems, because actual solutions are often hard, takes time and effort and can be hugely unpopular. The proof of work ensures those who vote put in effort, increasing the value of their vote and lowering average time preferences. Imagine that in order to vote, you'd have to pass a simple test to prove you have some basic knowledge about the parties and their programmes - it will slow down the voting process, but the quality would skyrocket and it would be much harder to just "buy" votes.
We were discussing this very thing here the other day, reacting to a governor who just nixed voting machines. We would also like to see a return to in person voting at local precincts with required preregistration and other slow down methods which do not limit anyone’s opportunity to vote IF IT’S IMPORTANT TO THEM.
Well we can't claim the current government got elected by populism.... They harvested all of 35% of the vote.
Basically a case of vote for me now and you'll get a $20 coupon vs Vote for me now and after 2 years you'd have saved $2000 dollars thanks to my policies.
People will take the $20 because they want the money now.
Your comment
There’s a problem with that, a genuine problem which is very relevant to the real world. Proof of work/knowledge favours those who have the excess time resource to put in that work. If you work as a cleaner, doing two jobs one of which is shift-work until 4am, and taking the bus because you can’t afford a car…..then not only do you make bad dietary decisions, you *also* don’t have time to do in-depth research of which political party has your interests at heart. Whereas the well-paid corporate lobbyist, whose day-job is to influence those same politicians, can put in as many hours a day as they like, to both research those policies, and make them happen by subtle skewing of debate.
Rule by experts may well produce “better” policies. But it also produces policies that are very *unfair* to those at the bottom of the pile. It’s exactly why democracy one-man-one-vote is both vital, and a fragile flower.
"Time to Question is a Question of...Time!" offers a recursive explanation of Rory's observation that we don't spend enough time talking about time.
In 1979, the 90-minute commute between Mitcham and Westminster in the old Routemaster buses were the best times of the day. I'd fall asleep as soon as I sat down.
This, precisely, is what makes learning something different every day so exciting.
As a former VFX tech, I love the ideas of letting creatives loose on infrastructure proposals. I recall Syd Mead's proposal for the former WTC site. Absolutely brilliant and as both a technical proposal and as a real landmark.
Would be all DEI feminism. No thanks.
Brilliant; Though not the central point, the implications of e-mail (and instant messaging) which puts the burden on answering/checking on the recipient, is spot on.
I don’t agree though. Just check the email when you can or want - if someone needs me urgently there is Teams or my phone number as a last resort. To me this talk came across as a boomer desperate to bring back the 1970s because he just doesn’t sync with the zeitgeist anymore.
Some emails are time sensitive precisely because emailing in general is very convenient, saves time...
@@Liusila I think Rory's point about the expectation is correct though. I'm a part of an organization that send out an important email, then send a text to everyone to let them know about it.
My problem with the price increase chart is that it shows Wage increased faster than housing, whereas in so many places rent / housing has gone up a lot more than wages in the past 5 years.
Hearing Rory go is like my inner voice come to life.
I wish my inner voice sounded like that
@@santiagoangulo ADD is a blessing and a curse.
Rory is one of the few marketing people i can stomack listing to as an designer/engineer. i live my life much like he talks about, adfilters ann all electronic, no pings from anny app despite the strictly nesesary, and if im late i tell you and then carry on at the same speed. i might even slow down if late to counter the accompanying stress in being late. also one is eighter early or late, i like to chose if its important to be early or not. I also frequently chose transport becouse of ease of use comfort or beauty/intertainment instead of speed.
If I where yu I'd reed thrpogh yor post to checn for errs.
@@fwqkawI chequed his coment and it loocks good too me
This takes me back to elementary music classes. We were nervous budding musicians. The teacher said, "Are we all crazy anxious enough?"
Unanimous agreement.
"Congratulations on your awareness. Now if you want to go farther faster... you will have to slow down."
Enjoying travel time (or not) depends on the quality of the travel. I used to take the train from Leeds to London quite a lot for research conferences and got to travel down the day before the conference so there was no rush, just sitting on a train (outside of rush hour) chilling out and reading a book for two hours. I quite liked this and it was basically a good "de-stress" time. Compare this to, for example, taking the Tube in London at rush hour which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy...
Exactly! Should we take THAT train twice as well, just for the joy of it all? Public transport is a means to an end, I don’t know what luxury trips with no time constraints the speaker gets to have, but most of us don’t get to live like that.
I work for the subsidiary of a big multinational, and as part of the buyout we lost our marketing function - what’s fascinating is that at the same time, our company strategy basically imploded. I’d always assumed the latter led to the former, but I’m now rethinking that.
Interesting. I work for a company that is B2B and has a single massive client, so does basically no marketing. And we have no strategy or purpose worth speaking about 🤔
Thank you to the hosts for providing a space for these presentations and thank you Rory for sharing your time and work, peace
Its like road engineers will make a road ugly to make it slightly faster. But people might prefer a beautiful longer journey.
Several of the points he makes remind me strongly of my time as trips co-ordinator in a secondary school. Each trip needed a risk assessment. "It's OK," they would say, "I've got the one from last year."
"That's not a risk assessment."
"Yes it is, and it's by Frank, who is really good and.."
"That's not a risk assessment."
"Why?"
"A risk assessment is you thinking the trip through, spotting what might go wrong, evaluating it, minimising hazards and being sure you know what your contingencies are. THEN you write it down as a summary in case you need evidence later." Without going through the process, the paper is worthless; worse, it's deceptive, because it makes you think you are well-prepared when you're not.
Just love this guy. ❤ he’s a reframing genius.
I like fast trains because I know that if I miss a train I have not lost much by getting the next one. It means I can pre book alsorts of things based on my expected schedule
The title alone is worth contemplating - love seeing new Rory Sutherland talks!
Didn't take much contemplation for me to arrive at a strong "yes". Suppose I have contemplated the question before. Great talk!
Or you just accept what confident speakers implore you to believe without much skepticism.
When optimizing always state out loud what you optimize for.. work it into the use case and research how many potential user actually fit the usecase.. or just do whatever and call it optimization, because it sounds good.
The very important thing about making the same mistake over and over again.. is that you get better at it! Practice makes perfect. I can now make the same mistake blindfolded.
I'd rather spend an hour on a trian than half an hour on a bus. At least in sydney Australia, where i can get a seat, i would.
Here is an insight. We had a bus service that was always on time. In rain, snow, sun.
The village commuters swallowed the idea that a train service would be better, because we already had old tracks but the train line had been abandoned decades earlier. So after much lobbying, the tracks were renovated and new bombardier trains were introduced.
Moral of the story - the trains are never on time. Snow hinders them, rain hinders them, sun hinders them. It is a shitty substitute that costs plenty.
It depends on the train or bus route and sometimes factors beyond your control. Is it a double-decker through London at a quiet time, where you get the front seat on top deck versus a packed sweaty tube that stops for 30 minutes in a tunnel.
@@erbterbAlso, less demand on buses can cause routes to be cut and decrease the usefulness of the network, forcing more people into alternatives, which in turn erodes the service.
@@MillillioN that is self evident.
@@saddysly8281 each to his own. I would rather be on time and know I will be on time, than have to always get the train an hour earlier because we cannot trust it will show up on time or at all. Then we end up riding a bus anyway as replacement traffic or take a cab and then go through the trouble of seeking reimbursement from the service provider.
Well done presentation. Everything covered in this talk was spot on. Everyone should hear this.
Dunno, I do always prefer shorter trips which includes certainty that the train/bus/car does arrive when expected. Spending hours on a train every day is not my way of relaxing - most of the time you’re stood sweating, trying to stay balanced between people’s buggies and bags, desperate for the toilet or starving or otherwise uncomfortable and just waiting to get out.
What a beautiful thought provoking speech
2 hours on a comfortable train are worth 10mins in an uncomfortable train. In addition, a 20min train ride is a disruption, a 90train ride is a work block
Really entertaining and educational. While I see what Rory said about the assumption of ‘speed over enjoyment’ has influenced the rules of transportation, I think that the truth is in the ‘use-case’ nuances. Some value speed because the need is to be at a location on time and come back. Some value the enjoyment because their need is to experience the transport. It is safe to bet that the transportation companies have done their research and know where the majority of their potential customers are, and therefore optimize their experience to that need.
To Rory’s credit, these companies could customize their experience by asking users a few questions about their goals and priorities before they offer fares. Something like: want to get their fast? Or want to get the scenic route?....
I think it's important to consider what else the companies could do to make the journey better.
Would people care if their train took a longer time to arrive if they were comfortable and entertained? I don't think they would. Rory is railing against that assumption that "faster is better".
Fascinating analogy (speedometer vs paceometer)
Really needed to hear this, so relevant in todays world
A super fast train removes all the annoyances and extra time of airports and flying, plus you step off the train in the heart of the city.
This bloke is a hoot. I will look out more of his speeches and writings.
Love Rory Sutherland.
Cal Newport actually has made the same point at 10:04 many times over, but it's mostly fallen on deaf ears. See his book A World Without Email. Great idea on the server delay intervention though. Haven't heard that one before
Would love to see a conversion between those two. Rory was also starting to get at Slow Productivity towards the end which is Cal’s latest work
@@treiricketts7572 Same! It would be awesome to see them in a discussion
At about the 28 minute mark, he brings up something that I personally think accurately depicts the function and consequence of using generative AI; the basic notion of 'journey vs destination'. Cleo Abram has a video regarding AI in music, and unknowingly, what she promotes at about 2.40 minutes into the video is the modern collapse of creativity, she calls it 'The Gap'. I can't tell you how saddened I was when I first saw her video months ago. To keep it short, she almost literally says, "If you want to create something, don't learn how to create it, just get AI to create it for you."
evolved robosapiens. Like the dinosaurs resistant to change stay homosapien and don't mix with robosapiens.
Rick Beato describes this as the death of popular music. There's no point in people getting good at playing, or composing, any more.
@@rogerstone3068 can you tell me which video that is? i can't find it...
One of the key benefits of having a good super-fast train network would be to reduce the number of flights taken (much greener).
I love this like anything that doubts the Bigger Faster More mindset
Love Rory, fascinating as always.
Legend!
Finally I can hear someone say publicly somethig I've been telling my friends for ages. Things like sliding doors sliding sloowwllyy which don't let me go through at my chosen pace without alternative with handle/push/pull option drive me mad. Or when I can't be served because of the AI system failure. Or when I hear that an electronic system of a car can disable it for actually no reason at all, because some sensors are ridiculously electronically sensitive. You can go on with such absurdities forever.
I love this guy and where has he been my whole life??
Concorde strikes me as an example of this. It was an incredible engineering feat for sure but in the end maybe it was beaten by thinking of a human rather than a machine.
Someone realised business people travelling between NY and London would be better off if they could sleep on a lie-flat bed or have a decent area to work and actually appreciate the extra time it took.
To reinforce that point, I heard that during the spring when the jet stream is at its strongest, some people prefer to fly to Europe from the west coast of the US rather than the east coast because the trip is too fast to get a decent night's sleep.
That's true. The Boston to London flight is a nightmare.
I used to catch that train from Salisbury to Exeter Central. The views through Dorset were gorgeous!
Do you know who likes the idea that a technology is something we can't live without and must get on board with? The makers of the technology.
The distance people live from work is sub-optimal because they are poor and thus cannot afford to live near the expensive areas in which most work places/offices are based, not because they love commuting.
Rich people don’t live closer, they live where rich people live
Rich/smart people do not want to live in the middle of cities because they are hellish dystopias. They would literally rather commute than live there. You have it completely the wrong way around. The people who live in cities are either so rich that they have multiple houses, or replacement immigrants subsidised to live there.
I love this guy's brain immensely-I bet if he represented me at 3 appeal tribunals against DWP starvation sanctions after ICU that I would live past 60-but we have run out of justice say every lawyer
Excellent, thank you very much.
Fresh insights on something’s we take for granted.
Strategically, SLOW DOWN SOME PROCESSES ❤
New rory talks eh sign me up
Superb talk, really a 10/10.
Brilliant presentation
Long ago i realised we should all have minutes per mile and liters per hour front and center on the dash. It would fix so many problems
I always thought it was funny that some religions you put a hat on to show respect, and others, you take your hat off to show respect.
Always insightful, thank you!
This was brilliant. Thank you.
(P.s. I would buy shares in your Flat White or F Off franchise.)
Guy is a genius
He neglects to address why we actually do things the way we do them. Of course, a leisurely commute on a comfortable train with good wifi and loads of leg room, and a coffee service on route, would be lovely. But now i must set off an hour earlier, pay more for the train because fewer can run on a slow service, and half the time the service is booked up because of reduced service, so now i get up 2 hours earlier, which wakes my wife up, so i sleep on the couch during the week, and I don't get time to walk the dog in the morning, so i get to work knackered and stressed but hey that 2 hour train ride was worth it. 😂
You’ve quite an active imagination.
Does he assume we want to live on trains? Has he ever had to commute on the same train day in and day out? Who cares what the scenery outside is if I’m bursting for the toilet and I’m squished between other tired commuters?
@@zachariah7114 haha, so has the presenter 😁
His examples are clearly stated for effect. His train example is apt, but there is some irony to be found in his notion about a want for control while being on a train, while being coaxed into spending time every day in commute on just such a train, which takes away just that control - no free coffee or dancing models changes that, and so it isn’t prioritized.
I do agree fully with his sentiment that the journey is what counts, but what constitutes as better there is very subjective. Less time away from home or doing non-commuting things alongside affordability and reliability of the service would generally outweigh more leisurely responses, because what matters is generally found around the commute and not in the commute itself - though every little helps.
@@DingbatToast by the way, I didn’t mean that as a dig! I quite enjoyed your comment
I also do these maths, I've always thought it would be good to have a sign that states how much time you'll save if you break the law.
Who decided the closing music was a good choice? We go from thoughtful and reflective to loud and waiting for the beat to drop 😂
I love this talk so much!
Fabulous fabulous fabulous!
Very interesting idea. Also i like the way the man talks.Thanks for sharing
Great talk and thought provoking .
If you'd like the scenic route on Google maps, turn off highways in your settings and you'll end up on the slower, scenic route.
Really enjoyed it. Great speaker.
I like his joke at the beginning that involved 2 puffs.. Very brave
Your binary options trading videos always contain useful information.
Your videos about binary options always contain useful information.
Brilliant...thank you!
I enjoyed the talk very much and agree with the points, but there's a false assumption that it's the 'mathematical models' that necessitate such an obsessions towards optimization and minimization of time, whereas as he correctly pointed out in the first part of the talk, that's completely a managerial problem, it's the people that choose to the targets of optimization and the salient features of a model.
This is completely right
Not sure what I was expecting but I like this
This guy is a slick advertiser.
great speech, thanks for sharing!
This is why Vanilla wow is so much more enjoyable:P
Absolutely brilliant!👋
No there is a case for UkUltraspeed rail. Whilst you may only save half an hour or so between London to Manchester. The compound effect of everyone travelling is mammoth. And would show up in our economies growth and productivity numbers without a doubt.
So good. Rory gold❤
LMAO …was listening in 2x
I have also noticed my Google maps (occasionally) will give routes that are not always the fastest. And a tendency to take some routes over others. I wonder if some of it is perhaps caused by politics or business interests.
Yes
Brilliant as usual
Love this guy
The difference between 10mph and 20mph is double, it halves your travel time. Of course the difference between 70mph and 80mph isn't as dramatic, you're not doubling your speed. Try doing 140mph and see how quickly your arrival time on your gps changes.
Wow absolutely fascinating that he quotes the unabomber’s general thesis at 16:30.
Funny you mention that. As a mildly prominent marketing person, I am rather glad he is in jail, as I think I may have been a target eventually. But I do remember reading his thesis and thinking that quite a lot of it was fairly sensible!
Great talk and another way to look at the world.Better value by going slow.
Missing the point about trains. It's not about whether the customer wants a fast or slow experience. The train company want you on, off and charged quickly so they can get someone else on and repeat process
26:20 Not me imagining the horror of 30 minute unskippable CZcams ads. 😂
11:46 nope. offices are located in prime areas where real-estate prices are too high. people live away where it is cheap and there are means of travel from their home to office.
I live 7 min cycle from work while most of my life was >1hr travel. I prefer the 7 min cycle
really enjoyed this
There are a few issues with some of the things he said. There's one about implying that going through a stop at a Tory constituency would be nice. Tory economic policy has been proven devastating to the UK time and time again and it's really about a wealthy neighborhood (who often vote Tory) rather than the economic policies. It's about B voting for A, not A causing B...
The second is the picture of all the cell phone lights at a concert. This isn't about recording a concert, this is a new version of the cigarette lighter lit at a concert. Light from a phone is useless from that distance.
Aside from these minor mistakes, I think his ideas are interesting. I've heard other things from him and I think he does a good idea to caution the extreme ideas that people have about universal truths that are found in economics, psychology, religion, and political ideology. People like Jordan Peterson who invent these absurd universal truths about the world, making their ideological framework from a bunch of toothpicks, ready to fall over with a hard look. There's no doubt that people don't act rationally much of the time, which goes against the most dogmatic economic ideology in the West, but the ideology which is impeached by actually looking at reality.
I appreciate to have this person who seems to at least try to think about things grounded in reality, even if I don't agree with his entire philosophy.
What a smart cookie!
Bro’s been on a speed awareness course recently
😂
Brilliant
I was just a second away from watching this on 2x speed 😅
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Phenomenal
A lesson on lifes......😊
Sharp mind!