Discussing Proper Fit of Classic XC Ski Boots and Their Lack of Ankle Support
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2021
- People new to cross-country skiing often have diverse expectations as to how a cross-country ski boot should fit. They're always surprised, though, at just how comfortable cross-country ski boots are when they first try them on.
Guess what? That's how a cross-country ski boot is supposed to fit - comfortably! They should be snug like running shoes, not claustrophobic and painful like an Alpine ski boot. You should have enough room to wiggle your toes and flex your feet naturally. But they shouldn't be so roomy that your foot slips around inside the xc ski boot (which could lead to blisters).
Admittedly, this comfort comes at a cost as most classic xc ski boots lack significant ankle support. But you realistically shouldn't need artificial ankle support when it comes to classic cross-country skiing. In fact, too much ankle support can decrease your ability to naturally flex your ankles, therefore, preventing you from performing correct classic technique (aka diagonal striding).
Anyway, that's the short answer. For a more thorough discussion about the proper fit and relationship of cross-country ski boots to technique, however, watch the video!
In this video was running Fischer Spider 62mm skis with NNN bindings and a pair of Fischer XC Control boots.
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Please note that I produced my series of articles and videos tagged “Cross-Country Skiing Explained” with the beginner or intermediate cross-country skier in mind. Therefore, I don’t intend to address racing-oriented philosophy, technique, or gear selection.
Classic Cross-Country Ski Components:
Introduction to Classic Cross-Country Skis (Part 1)
tahoetrailguide.com/cross-cou...
Geometry of Classic Cross-Country Skis (Part 2)
tahoetrailguide.com/cross-cou...
The Grip Zone of Classic Cross-Country Skis (Part 3)
tahoetrailguide.com/cross-cou...
Types of Bindings for Classic Cross-Country Skiing (Part 4)
tahoetrailguide.com/cross-cou...
Ski Boots for Classic Cross-Country Skiing (Part 5)
tahoetrailguide.com/cross-cou...
Classic Cross-Country Ski Poles (Part 6)
tahoetrailguide.com/cross-cou...
FAQs about Classic Cross-Country Skiing
tahoetrailguide.com/faqs-abou...
Waxing Your “Waxless” Cross-Country Skis (for beginner and intermediate xc skiers):
Introduction to Waxing Your Waxless XC Skis
tahoetrailguide.com/waxing-yo...
Step-by-Step Waxing Tutorial
tahoetrailguide.com/waxing-yo...
FAQs About Waxing Your Waxless XC Skis
tahoetrailguide.com/faqs-abou...
Considerations for buying cross-country ski gear (new and beginner xc skiers):
Buying Cross-Country Ski Gear, for Beginners (Part 1)
tahoetrailguide.com/buying-cr...
Buying Cross-Country Ski Gear, for Beginners (Part 2)
tahoetrailguide.com/buying-cr...
I've produced this collection of articles and videos about backcountry travel and exploration with the beginner and intermediate adventurer in mind. This is the demographic for whom I most often served while working in the Lake Tahoe outdoor recreation industry. In essence, these informational projects I create and publish are extensions of the many conversations we've had over the years.
Please note that, although I encourage you to venture out of your comfort zone, you need to know your limits and when to turn back. Tahoe Trail Guide and its contributors are not liable for property loss or damage, personal injury, or death. Always consult multiple sources when venturing into the backcountry. Always be prepared for the worst case scenario. Your safety is your responsibility.
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Insoles are probably more important than boots and should be discussed in conjunction with boot fit.
Sorry for my delayed response. My busy weekend rolled into a busy Monday :)
Yeah, I guess I didn't even mention anything about insoles in this video. That's probably because I've never felt the need to wear them with xc ski boots. And the majority of rental customers that I've served over the years have said that xc ski boots have been some of the most comfortable footwear they've ever wore.
But I know a lot of people do use insoles, particularly of the orthopedic variety, so I probably should've mentioned that they can enhance the comfortability and fit of an xc ski shoe/boot.
That said, I used to do a lot of longer distance road running years ago (some marathons, 10-mile races, etc.) and for the longest time I believed that insoles were the answer to comfort. But, for me, it always came down to the actual shape of the shoe in which I wore. I spent quite a bit of money on top notch running shoes during those years (as well as aftermarket insoles) but no matter what kind of insole I put in them, if the shoe wasn't comfortable and a good fit right out of the box no insole in the world was able to fix that. The bottom line is that all of our feet are shaped a certain way and not all manufacturers' foot molds accommodate them.
So I totally agree that for many people insoles can really enhance the fit of a shoe and help with different kinds of foot pain associated with prolonged bipedal movement. However, xc skiing is so much less impactful than running, for example, so I find insoles commensurately less necessary. And, ultimately, you can ski without insoles but you can't ski without xc ski boots so I would argue that insoles aren't necessarily more important.
I appreciate you tuning in and contributing to the conversation. And maybe you could offer some of the benefits that you've experienced when using insoles with xc ski boots since I'm clearly lacking in that department.
@JaredManninen
That is interesting and somewhat surprising to hear. Shoe shape and foot shape should fit, and that is universally true. At the same time, any sports physiotherapist would automatically prescribe insoles for the majority of people doing any sport simply because it reduces the chances for irregular movement of the foot and ankle, which can lead to injuries further up the kinetic chain, as well an unbalanced muscular development. For instance, for me, I have very high arches that collapse slightly without arch support, which means I get inner knee pain in both knees when putting down the power and it is also harder to balance on the skis. I also have a wedge under my right heel to tilt my right foot 2 degrees because it excessively pronates more than left foot. My left leg is shorter, hence, the excessive pronation of the right foot, so I need to add an extra insole in the left boot to act as a shim. This is normal practice in other sports such as cycling, which is also a low impact sport. A brief biomechanical assessment should be done prior to skiing, otherwise some people, like myself, will subconsciously compensate while skiing, which sooner or later, leads to injury and poor muscle development. This topic seems quite absent on the Internet, but I am quite sure professionals have this done behind the scenes.
@@ShadowzKiller Thanks for sharing your experience! It definitely sounds like you have benefitted from the use of very specific insoles. And most definitely, every pro, semi-pro, and even many highly competitive citizen racers have at least some sort of supporting staff/doctors/coaches/mentors/fellow racers that analyze and evaluate their biomechanics.
Unfortunately, that's not necessarily the reality for the average person. I think the bottom line is that most people simply don't train enough to develop serious long-term problems (i.e. if it doesn't hurt, no need to dig any deeper). Or if they do, they just stop and let stuff heal. I realize that with alpine skiing, for example, there's been a big push over the years to embrace customized footbeds and inserts for downhill boots. And that's great, but I think a lot of that's fueled as much by the fact that most people find alpine boots to be painful as it is for a desire for increased performance.
But, like I said, in my experience it seems that many people find xc ski boots to already be comfortable enough that their xc skiing experience isn't affected by painful feet or a lack of optimized performance. The majority of problems that I've seen with people renting xc ski boots is blisters from friction (not an ideal fit between foot and shoe), and either too much or not enough volume in the shoe to be an ideal fit. Again, though, this is in a rental scenario where the resort at which I work essentially has one style of boot for the typical renter. But if a person was to actually buy their own boots, they'd definitely want to try on different brands of boots to find an ideal fit.
I do know that there are lot of people who use actual orthopedic inserts, which seems more inline with what you're referring to. Like, most off-the-rack insoles just add another layer of cushion, whereas I'd consider the use of risers to compensate for a discrepancy in leg length as well as a full analysis of gait and biomechanics constitutes a whole other level of commitment to the sport.
As an instructor who tries to approach teaching xc skiing from an "observe, describe, prescribe" approach, it's often not until a person starts to develop their technique that I'll start to notice subtle discrepancies in foot movement patterns. Basically, there's so much going on with beginners and people new to xc skiing that focusing too much on the feet seems like it wouldn't necessarily be the most productive use of our time. So unless the person's feet was hurting or doing something really wonky, I like to work from general to specific (i.e. gross body movement and timing and then on to fine-detail and tuning). And that latter part is where I'd dial into those specific foot movements.
Anyway, insoles and a better understanding our foot biomechanics can definitely add to our xc skiing experience. So I appreciate your input and your contribution to the conversation :)
This is a wonderful video, probably the best I’ve seen on the subject. Thanks, Jared.
I really appreciate the nice feedback! Glad I could be of service :) And let me know if you ever have any questions!
I agree. I've seen people with good form faster and more efficient on rental gear than people with poor form using expensive top of the line gear. I think it's easy to get caught up in the gear hype because of advertising and CZcams influencers.
Great channel. You are encouraging me to take the plunge to start xc skiing. :)
Thanks for the meaningful comment :)
It seems par for the course in any sector of consumerism, where gear equals status (to on degree or another). That said, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to spend a lot of money on gear (I sure have over the years - haha). But, yeah, a lot of times it's like putting the cart before the horse. No matter what you need to have the skills to operate the equipment, especially when it's high-end stuff. So, in my opinion, an investment in skills over gear will always, always pay greater dividends in the long run.
Again, I appreciate you tuning in and adding to the conversation. And I do recommend you taking that plunge ;)
Lastly, if you're interested in more on that particular topic, here's a link to an article that I wrote describing my thoughts about investing in technique more than gear :)
tahoetrailguide.com/invest-in-technique-more-than-gear/
Good overview. I started with the same Fisher zippered boot you showed and it is what I need to groomed trails and tracks. I stumbled upon a pair leather discontinued Merrill mid leather that are great for off trail and abandoned logging roads. They will work with gaiters and snowshoes when called on. (NNN BC w 70mm ski)
Thanks, Rob! I like those basic Fischer touring boots. They're just so comfortable. And, there are times that I actually drive to and from the trailhead wearing them because they're nearly as soft as a pair of running shoes.
I have a stiff leather pair of Alpina Alaska 3-pin boots that I really love for off-track use. But I didn't even take them out of my shed this winter because, for the most part, the snow was firm enough in the backcountry that I didn't need all of that boot. In fact, I hardly used skis wider than Fischer Excursion 88mm.
Thanks for tuning in, and adding to the conversation!
Thank you for all the information you've presented on CZcams! I'm curious if you have tips on traveling on a Backcountry XC ski (like the Fischer Excursion 88) with a full pack around 50 pounds. I'm personally using these skis for getting out to a back country campsite with a full pack for a 1-2 night stay. Hoping that I picked the right ski based on your suggestions but looking forward to your feedback.
Happy winter to you!
Hey Kyle,
Sounds like you're going on a great adventure! On my first cross-country ski overnight a few years back I used my Excursion 88s with about a 45lbs backpack (czcams.com/video/FoMd5X5FtPA/video.html ). I wasn't quite as skilled of an xc skier back then compared to today, but I had a good time just the same. It was a great learning experience.
The snow depth will be the biggest challenge you'll face with regard to running a similar setup of skis and pack. If the snow isn't too deep (over six inches), you'll have it a lot easier. If you run into deep stuff, however, you'll probably find yourself struggling. Since it's early in the season, I hope this won't be the case for you.
50lbs would be the absolute maximum that I'd want to carry on my back when cross-country skiing. You definitely have to factor that extra gear into the recommended weight range for your skis, but unless you're starting out at the very top end of the ski's weight range you'll be fine. When wearing a backpack, I personally don't mind dragging the grip zone a bit. Kinda helps to keep you from gliding out of control. Again, though, unless you're facing super deep snow you should be fine. But if you are faced with lots of fresh snow, no matter what it'll be a struggle. Just pace yourself.
As far as ski technique/tips go with carrying a heavy pack, there are not magic bullets. You're going to have to factor that additional weight in with regard to fatigue, timing, and torque. Basically, you're going to tire easier, you're downhill turns will take more effort and be slower, and you'll be exerting a lot more pressure on your skis/bindings. So don't force anything. Just know that everything takes longer to accomplish in the cold and when carrying a lot of weight. I've seen some people recommend remaining upright as much as possible to let your bones/structure bear the extra weight. However, I find that if you stand straight up your center of mass shifts toward the back. And because there's less ski (and grip zone) behind you as you stand on the ski, you have less opportunity to stay upright. So I prefer to lean slightly forward when skiing to keep all that weight over the top of my skis (not in the back seat).
Lastly, falling and doing a faceplant while wearing a heavy pack in deep snow can be quite terrifying. My recommendation of a slight forward lean contributes to falling forward, so just be aware of that. When those 50lbs are pushing you down into the snow, it's easy to start panicking. Stay calm, clear your airway, and make every movement to get back up count (i.e. don't waste energy by flailing about). In those cases, it may be beneficial to roll to the side so that you can remove your backpack completely. If the snow is firm and you're motivated, you can try a weighted push-up to get back up. Try not to use your ski poles as a lever to get back up. With all the extra weight you'll be more apt to break them. Again, just pace yourself and try not to go into a panic. Here's a video I made about falling down and getting back up. I'm not wearing a backpack in it, but most of the principles are still relevant (czcams.com/video/0fLpmZ12mEY/video.html ). Yeah, falling down is about the worst thing when skiing with a heavy backpack.
Anyway, that's about all I have. Let me know if you have any specific questions. And, let me know how the adventure goes when you return!
Great and very informative video Jared👏 I like the emphasise on the technic. I am willing to learn rollerskiing and maybe in the future try any loppet's Nordic xc skiing events. As you can see I am at the begining of the journey, choosing appropriate gear. Thanks for your insight👌😀👍
Thank you so much for the kind words and nice feedback! I appreciate it :) And I'm glad to hear that you've been diving into the wonderful world of cross-country skiing! Let me know if you ever have any questions :)
@@JaredManninen You are welcome. I'll certainly ask more question soon. I've just bought a set of roller skis with binding etc. Once its delivered I'll most likely be asking about some technical tips. Speak soon 🙂👍
@@19boro76Fantastic! But just make sure you get some knee/elbow pads for use with those roller skis. Falling on asphalt isn't quite the same as on snow! haha But good luck and have fun with them :)
@@JaredManninen thanks, you are right it's better to be safe than sorry🙂. I do have a bicycle helmet and some old knee sleeves (which I use when I am at the gym squating with heavier loads, I know they are not knee pads but should be okay, I hope). I can also ice skate so I am not complete newbie, however as you said it is a big difference to fall on snow or even ice (a bit sore ,but you still slide) then on tarmac. Thanks for your hints🙂👌. I am really looking forward to receive the rollerski package😀. Speak soon👍.
@@19boro76 Awesome :) Choosing terrain that's flat and uphill is also a useful strategy for mitigating risk, particularly uphill terrain even if it's just a very gentle incline.
This was the perfect info I was looking for. I’m a newbie and bought the Salomon Escape Outpath/60 off-track skis for use at the lake but they still fit the groomed tracks for the city trails, though I’m finding that the off-track boots suggested by the salesperson make my toes and balls of feet numb, probably from working against the stiff boot. Now seeing how flexible a boot can be I think I will go shopping for a pair that bend with my feet, especially since I invested in a track setter for the lake because I found the off-track skiing was like snowshoeing with skis on. I’ve watched most, if not all, of your videos, enjoyed them all, but I obviously need more tips or tricks on off trail skiing since no one does lessons on that around here. P.S. Thx for including your fall on this video to show that it even happens to the best of ‘em.
Thanks so much for the kind words, and for watching all of my videos! Glad I could be of service :)
Boot fit issues are definitely a problem when xc skiing. You're never going to have fun if your feet hurt or go numb! That said, a stiffer boot might not actually be the problem. The brand or style of boot just might not be ideal for your foot. Every boot manufacturer has their version of the "ideal" foot, but we all have different shaped feet. I have really wide feet and only fit comfortably in Fischer brand boots because they tend to be the widest on the market. But at my work we have Salomon boots and they make my feet hurt. This isn't because there's anything inherently wrong with the boot, however, they're just too narrow for my feet. So I'd recommend trying a couple of different brands and styles (that are compatible with your bindings, obviously) to figure out what will work best for you.
That's super cool that you got a track setter! Not a small thing, by any means :) So have fun with that and let me know how your skiing goes.
I do like to include my falling bloopers when possible, just to keep myself honest ;)
@@JaredManninen more good info. My feet are narrow but now I know that boots should have some degree of comfort. I thought I just had to suffer for the sport, like you do with high heels 😆. Guess I get to go shopping. Happy Skiing.
@@khrbrk Awesome! Yes, most definitely xc ski boots should fit comfortably. haha :)
Just stumbled across this video while browsing through your channel, Jared, and wish I had watched it before I bought my boots. I think what I got works for me in the end, but I’d still be curious to get your thoughts (and then I promise I’ll stop pestering you with questions!). I got the Salomon Escape Prolink Plus - they have a bit of lightweight plastic support around the ankles and a strap at the top. I got them because there was pretty limited choice in my size and they were very comfortable on my feet when trying them on. I went into the store hoping to get something like the basic Salomon Escape, the Fisher XC Pro, or the Rossignol XC-2 boots. I’ve used the Escape Plus boots twice now and they’ve been really comfortable and warm (including in -19 C temps my first time out!). I also have narrow feet, and I find that the ankle strap helps me to adjust everything to keep my heel from lifting in the boot. Before I found my gear at a local shop, I’d ordered a pair of the Rossignol XC-2 boots online, and they’re arriving tomorrow, so I’m wondering if they might be a better boot since they’re a bit more minimal (assuming they’re a comfortable fit). Thanks in advance for any thoughts you have!
Haha, no bother at all Khalid. I'm happy to help out :)
At -19 degrees, you have me beat! We've been getting down into the +13-19 degree temps in the mornings so it's cold, but not nearly as cold as yours. So, congrats on getting out and braving those temperatures :)
I think all of those boots sound good. So long as the inbound Rossignols fit, I think you'll be happy with either/both. I have a similar setup as you do in that I own a pair of Fischer boots are like the XC - 2 boots that you ordered (very minimal without straps -- actually a lot like slippers), and then another set of Fischer XC Control (with a simple upper strap, like youre Salomons). I love them both as they're comfortable in their own rights. So long as those Rossis fit you well, I'd say keep both of them. By rotating between the two sets, you'll extend the life of both a little longer. One may be a bit more warm, too. For example, that ankle strap boot may be better in colder conditions with a little deeper snow as it'll keep snow from getting into the boot (at the ankles). The built in gaiters do a pretty good job of keeping snow out, but the straps all but guarantee that snow won't go into your boot.
I'm just a fan of having options and multiple sets of stuff because you never know what's going to happen to one of your pieces of gear. One set of boots might still be wet from your previous excursion. Maybe one of those sets of boots winds up having some weird manufacturing defect and you need to send it back for warranty or to have it repaired. It's probably not quite as relevant to you, but I leave three sets of boots (classic, skate, and backcountry) at my work so that I can always have my own boots to wear when either skiing on my break or teaching a lesson. Again, that's probably not really applicable to your situation, but the idea of staging gear at various locations (like in your car) can be helpful. And, having multiple options decreases the barriers (and excuses -- haha) to getting out there and playing in the snow :)
Anyway, I think you'll be happy with both. And I don't necessarily find that one style will make or break your technique. I used to really like that ankle strap when I was first starting out because it felt like it provided a little more support. But the most important element to the boot is whether or not it's comfortable to you. So, even though it had the strap, I mostly liked it because it was so comfortable on my feet.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have more questions!
@@JaredManninen Super helpful advice, as always, Jared! Thanks for your thoughts and your time.
Really like those leopard print gloves, what brand are they? Also, what about heel snugness, should they have a good heel cup feeling and not sloshy?
Those are some of my favorite gloves, too :) They're made by HandUp Gloves. They're actually mountain bike gloves, but I prefer to wear them because they only cover my hands, not my wrists. Lots of winter gloves have a gauntlet extension to cover the wrist, but I don't like wearing them because they're a hassle to try and see my watch (especially since most of my jackets do a fine job of covering my wrists).
The heel should feel secure in the xc ski boot. It shouldn't be moving a whole lot, otherwise you may wind up with blisters due to the friction. Some boots will have a heel strap that you can adjust that'll lock your heel in the boot, but not all xc ski boots have this feature. A lot of times, boot fit issues comes down to the brand. They each have their own "ideal" foot bed/shape and once you find what brand fits your feet best you shouldn't really have to worry much anymore.
Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification. Thanks for tuning in, and for reaching out. I appreciate it!
Very informative video. Thank you so much for doing it! I remember my young times doing a lot of cross country skiing into the wild... Time have past and I've replaced XC skiing with other activities, like a lot of hiking, in snowshoes or with crampons, really active running trail all year long, cycling and mountian biking... Since 3 or 4 years, I have re-introduced xc skiing but I have a right ankle that twists easily (once it does it, it's always easier to roll off). Perhaps in that case it might help to have more support?
I mainly do all of my skiing in dedicated and groomed paths, but considering going off tracks sooner or later for at least 15 to 25% of the time). I presently have an old Salomon shoe (s10 series if I recall well) with Trak skis that are (the no-wax type). I'm looking for a more supportive shoe and someone suggested me the Fischer OTX Trail or Adventure series. Are those a great choice? Is there a better option in your opinion? The salesperson also talked about using a wider ski to help with stability... Is that something that will help my ankle be in more neutral zone?
Hey Christian,
Thanks so much for the nice feedback. I appreciate it!
As far as more supportive xc ski boots go, I'd recommend trying on a number of different styles and brands if at all possible. There's a range when it comes to off-track/backcountry xc ski boots, and you'll be the best judge of what'll work best for you.
I own a set of the Fischer OTX Adventure boots, and I wouldn't say that they're super supportive for the ankle. The cuff around the ankle is there, but it's not very stiff. Honestly, a lot of the cuffs and ankle support with many xc ski boots tends to be more like moral support versus actual physical support ;) That said, my Alpina Alaska boots feel more stiff than any of my Fischer off-track boots.
You may want to watch some of Tom M's videos about the xc ski boots that he uses for backcountry xc skiing. I think he generally tends to run a stiffer boot than I do. This video features a few different styles of boots (czcams.com/video/OvbZnj_5TPY/video.html).
If you can't find the ideal boot for you, one idea could be to use an ankle brace. I'm sure you've already thought of that but in case you haven't, that's something that I would consider. I actually use a really simple neoprene ankle brace with one set of my boots. I actually use it more to pad out the inside of the boot (as the boot is just slightly large for my foot), but it does offer a small amount of additional support.
I realize that's probably not a lot of help, but that's about all I can think of at this point. Unless you're in a dedicated skate skiing boot that's got tons of ankle support, I find that most xc ski boots (track or backcountry-oriented) just don't seem to offer a lot of ankle support.
Thanks again for tuning in, and let me know if you have any other questions or want additional clarification.
@@JaredManninen Thank you very much for your informative work. It's greatly appreciated. I know that I have a lot of work to do with this ankle... as well as for technique. But I really enjoy the sport and being outside discovering new places. How do you compare the Fischer OTX series boots with your Fischer Control boot in ankle support? The Alpina's surely looks awesome but still debating if a NNN BC binding is really needed...
What do you think of the Control Step-In IFP bindings? For on track and a little off track/backcountry use? Currently narrowing down to Fischer OTX Adventure 62 Crown Ultralite skis...
Keep up the good work!
@@laroche_therock You're welcome! I find that the Fischer XC Control boots offer less ankle-related support as my OTX Adventure boots. My OTX boots are NNN BC, but I suspect that the design is the same regardless of NNN or NNN BC. I've always loved my set of XC Control boots because they're so comfortable, but the ankle support is quite negligible. Mostly, that strap feels good around the ankle and keeps the snow out of my boots, but ultimately offers relatively little support.
As far as the bindings that you mention go, I'd tread lightly off-track with them if you choose to use them there. Realistically, they're groomed terrain but, believe it or not, just in the past week I've seen firsthand at my work (popular xc ski resort) two sets of fused plate/slide-on bindings fail in groomed terrain. Granted, both sets were (I believe) the first generation NIS plates that FIscher started using so they're a few years old now. However, the failures were ultimately catastrophic in that the skier barely made it back to the resort after the fused plates partially delaminated. One person was a collegiate racer and the torque she applied to the skis while cornering was apparently enough to rip the plate mostly off. The other failure was with a novice skier who took a hard fall and wrenched the plate mostly off. This isn't the norm as I've never seen that happen, but twice in one week was quite shocking.
Based on that, I'd maybe consider the more traditional screw-on bindings. NNN would be fine for light off-trail skiing. In fact, I use a basic NNN binding with one of my sets of Spider 62mm. But the fused plates seem questionable in this application.
Anyway, hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions!
@@JaredManninen Thank you again for those tips of wisdom. It's really appreciated! 🙏
@@laroche_therock I'm glad I could be of service, Christian. Let me know if you ever have any other questions :)
Hello Jared, how snug should shoe fit? Is it okay that you can move your feet freely in it? As I am newbie, I am afraid that if I will not have my foot cemented in that shoe, that it is "too big" for me or that I will cannot ski... I know've said that we should focus on the techinque most, but I just cant pass to ask again. I always have this concern, as I have very narrow, yet long foot. I dont know if I should go smaller, so the shoes could be more narrow, while touching the edge of the shoe or should I go with shoes that have a gap between my toes and shoe while being slightly more wide, I am afraid that shoes will even stretch out.
All great questions, so thanks for watching and asking!
You shouldn't have too much room in your xc ski boot, but you do want to have a some wiggle room for your toes. So, don't buy them too short to the point where your toes are touching the front of the boot. That will eventually cause pain because your feet are going to expand a little since xc skiing is an aerobic activity, just like running or hiking.
That said, boot manufacturers have their own versions of an ideal foot bed. So I'd try, if at all possible, to wear a couple of different brands of xc ski boots to determine the best fit. I've always found Salomon boots to be pretty narrow, whereas Fischer tend to run wide (which is why I nearly always wear Fischer ... because I have wide feet). It would be worth your time to take a trip to a shop that features a selection of xc ski boot brands so that you can try a variety of them.
If you did end up buying a boot that was a little wide for your foot (but appropriately long so that you had wiggle room for your toes), you could then try some external fixes. Basically, you could try and wear thicker socks. Or, you could buy an inexpensive neoprene-style ankle brace (for like $10 at a sporting goods store). I use one of those ankle braces to pad out one set of boots in particular that are slightly big for my feet. I also have some boots that are slightly bigger or smaller depending on the boot's internal padding. So I'll wear a thin or thick sock, according to the boots in which I'm wearing.
Anyway, those are some ideas that come to mind. Let me know if you have more questions or want clarification on anything I've said. Again, thanks for tuning in!
Hi Jared, thanks for the great tips. One question though, if this topic is not too old. How much medial or lateral firmness should you have in the toes? I found my newly waxed skis a bit sloppy to control in the ski tips on flat shallow snow using someone else’s tracks (no grooming). I also found them sloppy while curving on strong downgraded slope (groomed).
Hey Eric,
Thanks for the kind words, and no question or topic is too old :) I actually try to make my projects, whether they be videos or articles, to be "evergreen" so that they're useful and relevant for a long time rather than being trendy or time-specific.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're experiencing some edge control issues which you believe to be a result of having too soft of an xc ski boot. Assuming this is the issue, I'll give you my two cents... If this is not the case, let me know :)
First off, running xc skis on flat and firm snow whether you're on ungroomed terrain or just in the skate lane (i.e. not using actual classic tracks) is always challenging to get them to track straight. Then, add some fresh wax to your glide zones and you can be slipping all over the place. Regardless of how soft or stiff your boot is, tracking in a straight line on that firm and flat terrain will generally always be somewhat difficult to execute. I don't know your xc ski experience level or what type of skis you're running, but I know it takes a long time to develop the correct muscle memory while diagonal striding that'll yield a straight line (for both skis). When I'm skiing off-trail and in enough snow to sink in a little, I frequently take a look back at my tracks to see whether or not I'm skiing in nice long straight lines. In this scenario of firm and flat terrain, I prefer a skinnier ski to a wider one. For me, running wide skis on firm and flat terrain (even with supportive backcountry boots) is one of the most frustrating things to do because the skis want to go in every direction but straight. It just takes a lot less effort to edge skinny skis. So, in this situation I don't know if a stiffer boot is going to make a whole lot of difference. In theory, you should be able to apply enough pressure on the ski (regardless of boot stiffness) to get them to edge enough to prevent lateral slipping. See this video of mine where I perform a bunch of different exercises using my really soft boots (description below) on firm and flat terrain - czcams.com/video/mS7xyneYtl4/video.html.
As far as having more control on downhills, I could see how having a stiffer boot could help with edging. With the additional speed and force of going downhill, it takes even more pressure to get those skis to edge so that you can control them. Again, though, this is sounding like edge control issues. And, regardless of boot stiffness, you should be able to edge a set of skinny skis without too much effort. I have a pair of classic boots that I use all the time and, as a result, they've become nearly as soft as my slippers. I can fold them into a taco or twist them like a pretzel, but they still provide just enough support to perform modified parallel turns on steeper descents of groomed terrain, for example. I filmed most of this xc ski downhill related video with those boots - czcams.com/video/-dFqBEG4mW4/video.html. That said, I do have to be conscious of my positioning and timing in order to accomplish this. But it's something that I've practiced a lot.
Ok, that was a lot and I don't know that it's specifically what you're dealing with. However, I suspect that developing better edge control is what you need (more than buying another set of boots). Honestly, I'd learn to use what you have assuming your boots aren't super old and falling apart. Run some exercises and drills (similar to the first video I linked above) to develop your edge control and then decide whether or not to buy more gear. It sounds like you're dedicated and willing to put the time in based on the fact that you've been challenging yourself with steep descents.
Anyway, let me know if any of that helps or if your question is something completely different :)
@@JaredManninen That was definitly helpful, thank you. I'm 3 years new to xc skiing, coming with many years alpine experience and I rarely met a sales rep with strong shoe or boot experience. I ommited one detail about my shoe size as I was afraid to protracting my question. When I bought these shoes, I bought it for comfort which in terms of walking shoes, I buy half size to one full size up. In these xc shoes, they feel laterraly snug and modestly firm in the knuckes of my toes but my toes have a lot of room. I'm assuming that my toes won't make a lot of diffence in controlling the tip direction. (Eric)
@@ecphotographer Thanks again for reaching out :)
I always describe the ideal fit of an xc ski boot as being snug but not too tight, like a running shoe. You want to have some space in the toe box so that you're toes and front half of your foot can expand a little as it gets warmed up. Remember that xc skiing is totally aerobic and your feet will need that space to expand. But I think this sounds pretty similar to how your current pair of boots fits. In the future, I'd probably just buy the xc ski boot size that you'd normally buy in running shoes (not going for something slightly larger). The boots will stretch over time through use. And, by default, nearly all cross-country ski boots are going to be pretty comfortable so I wouldn't try to monkey with that setup. That said, with some brands that run more narrow I've worn a half size larger without any performance issues.
Long story short, I've never really had an issue with my toes and being able to control the tips of my skis. As I previously mentioned, this sounds more like an edge issue so I'd start with dialing in that aspect of your skillset before looking for new boots. Another thing I often mention about boot fit is that you shouldn't really even notice that you're wearing xc ski boots. They should just be the interface between you and the skis and not draw your attention to them (i.e. they're not too big and not too small). Since you're coming from an Alpine background, it's understandable that you want a tighter fit. But cross-country skiing is just a bit more loose all around and it requires that you totally develop your positioning on the ski as well as the correct overall posture (required to perform diagonal striding).
I'm not an Alpine skier. However, many of my friends ski both Alpine and cross-country and remark that in Alpine (thanks to advancements in gear) that you can get away with a lot of (for lack of a better term) bad habits. Cross-country skiing isn't quite as forgivable. Your positioning on the skis is paramount, and proper positioning leads to good technique. The actual boot/binding interface is mostly incidental (assuming that your boots aren't totally the wrong size or the bindings aren't broke).
Anyway, hope that's a little more insight for you to chew on. It sounds like you're heading in the right direction. Let me know if you have more questions!
@@JaredManninen Awesome, thanks!
Doug from Eau Claire, Wi. here again I generally wear wide to extra wide shoes/boots local shop doesn't know of wide XC boots I tried on a pair of Salomon boots that didn't feel too bad in shop Plenty of room in toes but pretty snug on outside edge A half size larger doesn't really help on width but too long in toes One person suggested I drive up to New Moon shop in Hayward, Wi (home of the Birkie) as I guess they're pretty expert in matching equipment Any thoughts Jared?
Hey Doug!
Thanks again for watching and commenting :)
As far as wider xc ski boots go, I always prefer Fischer as they seem to offer the widest toe boxes around. Atomic is also relatively wide. I've found that Salomon and Rossignol tend to run on the narrow side. That said, I actually have a pair of Salomon skate boots that seem to fit well. But I believe that's because they're used and had been stretched to fit a bit wider (I was sold them by a Salomon rep, so they had seen some use prior to me owning them).
For the most part I run Fischer exclusively because they fit wider than the others. My feet are kind of spatula-shaped. haha. They're wide not only in the toe area but also way back in the metatarsals. And then they taper back to the heels. I've historically worn a size 9 shoe, but with Fischer I go between a size 42 and 41 depending on specific model of boot. And if the 42 feels a bit roomy, I wear an inexpensive pair of neoprene ankle braces to fill out the boot.
Unfortunately, boots are the one thing that you can't really just buy online due to fit issues. So if you have the opportunity, I'd recommend trying on different brands of xc ski boots before you actually buy. Start with Fischer (for width) since it's consistently the widest (at least that's what I've found), and then go from there. Call around to any/all local shops to see what brands that they offer. And, if they do have Fischer, I think it might be worth your time to make the road trip. I know what it's like to have very specific shoe needs. Whenever I find shoes that fit my weird feet, I often will by multiple pair (or at least stick with that brand) because it can be challenging to find them again. Gear West is also a great (relatively) local resource. They have shops in MN (and a big online presence), but they offer a huge Nordic selection of skis, boots, bindings, waxes ... everything you could ever want.
Let me know what you decide to do and end up buying. Good luck!
@@JaredManninen Thanks again so much for taking the time to send me so much information! I'm continuing to work at getting myself in better shape and your videos continue to inspire me A road trip to Tahoe would be great to figure out I bought a kayak last fall and that's what started me on my journey to lose weight I started at 258, I'm currently at 224, heading to goal of 190. At the present time my wife isn't interested in kayaking or XC skiing but she does like to snowshoe I did find you on FB and sent at friend request thinking that'd be an easier way to ask you questions If you aren't comfortable accepting that from a complete stranger I do understand and would try to work in questions as I watch your videos Have a very merry, safe Christmas!
@@wingr1800 No problem, Doug! Sounds like you're on a great journey! And, xc skiing is a wonderful complement to it. I actually tend to put some weight on in the summer and then lose it during the winter due to the volume of xc skiing I do. As far as questions go, it's actually better if you just ask in the comments section here on CZcams (to the relevant video). That way, other people can benefit from our discussion. Anyway, hope you have a great holiday season as well! Take care, and I hope you can get outside and play :)
What are your thoughts on peoples thoughts to size up one or two sizes for extra socks for warmth
I went for correct size
Hey Tony!
I agree with you in your choice to buy the correct size of xc ski boots for your feet.
I don't recommend sizing up to accommodate thicker socks or multiple pairs of socks. To be honest, the only time my feet ever get cold in xc ski boots is when I'm standing around. And if I'm out xc skiing, well, I tend not to stand around a lot! haha.
So when wearing a regular mid-width merino wool sock, for example, my feet always stay warm (often to the point where they get pretty sweaty). The inherently softer boots and active feet of cross-country skiing do a good job of keeping your feet warm. So, again, I just recommend buying an xc ski boot that fits your foot properly while wearing a regular width athletic sock.
All of that said, I have worn really thick socks in order to fill out a slightly too big xc ski boot before. That, and I've used an inexpensive neoprene ankle brace to also fill out boots that are a tad big. Unfortunately, this is what happens when you buy online and are too lazy to send back for one size smaller. haha. But I make due with everything.
I just find that wearing thicker socks don't really allow you to cinch down those boot laces nearly enough to feel secure in the boot. And, so many people already have issues with "lack of control" in the softer xc ski boots. So sizing up and then filling out with a soft material like a wool sock will ultimately yield less control in those boots.
Anyway, thanks for tuning in and for the question(s)!
@JaredManninen fab reply! What is minimum temps you ski in and do you camp out too? I'll read your other replies thanks
@@TonyHobbs You're welcome :) Honestly, the Sierra Nevada doesn't get extremely cold. 10 degrees (F) would be considered cold out here, and I've definitely skied in that temperature. But usually that's just before clocking in to work at the xc ski resort, for example. I've done a few winter overnights but, for many reasons, I just haven't worked them into my routine yet. Part due to work schedule, part due to weather patterns, and part just due to my own laziness. haha. But in the next couple of years I'm going to plan on doing them more. Again, our temps where I live are actually quite favorable for winter outings.
@JaredManninen yeah that's not too cold about minus 12c
Sweden Norway can I believe get to minus 30 and colder lol
Thanks for your detailed replies
Yeah, we get kinda spoiled out here in that regard. I wish it would stay colder longer, but that's not what the Sierra Nevada is known for 😉