It runs at the TVRM on tracks that have a lower speed limit than NS. It does pull all day excursions to Summerville, GA and I believe they can get up to 30 mph or more on that railroad on the Georgia side. I think they upgraded the tracks in Georgia. They actually have to use a bit of NS on the Georgia runs. I think the new steam program at NS was a temporary thing to celebrate their 30th anniversary (1982-2012) which Wick Moorman started. He is a railfan who loves steam. But, now that he’s gone from NS and Jim Squires is in charge, NS is now becoming anti excursion and with PSR, they are cutting anything non essential to normal freight operations including the F units which two were bought by Reading and Northern for excursion service. NS is a publicly traded corporation, which means they have to show a profit every quarter for their shareholders and cut costs. CEO’s like Claytor and Moorman are rare.
Only 2/4 were bought by RBMN. I forget where the other 2 went. My dad does the sound for RBMN and so we got a tour of their facilities, and it was right after they bought them. We were the first people to see their new paint scheme, which is awesome!
I don’t know how many times I’ve watched this video over the past few years, you truly did execute this video perfectly. Maybe one day we can get this back, but highly doubt it.
I love how they revived the steam program but ended it after just three or four years. makes you wonder what was the point if they couldn't keep it going as long as the original
Two reasons. First, it was Wick Moorman's thing. He brought it back and when he retired, no one else wanted to keep it going. Second, PTC was quickly becoming a requirement and no one with NS wanted to invest the time or money on getting these engines ready for it.
The 21st Century program was only intended to be for five years. They actually allowed two more seasons of 611 only excursions. 2016 and 2017. And that was after Wick retired in 2015. I rode two 765 excursions in PA and one 611 excursion in Manassas, VA. And 611 again in Sept. 2019 at Strasburg. I live near Allentown, PA and the second 765 excursion went from near Bethlehem to Pittston and back over NS and RBMN. I missed almost all mainline excursions in the 80’s up to 2012. Meaning excursions on class 1 railroads like Conrail with equipment from tourist railroads like BM&R, Strasburg, etc. I just rode train rides on their own track mostly but I did ride behind the PRR #1361 in August 1988 from York, PA to Menges Mills.
Of all the CZcams videos that I have seen of 4501 to date (that I haven't posted, that is), this is my favorite of them. Good pacing shots, excellent stack talk, good trackside views, and a good sounding whistle. 10 out of 10 for a great video. 4501 is one of my top 10 favorite locomotives, and I got to meet her last year, and I even got to ride her on the TVRM cab ride. However, this whistle wasn't on her for the trip. She was running a Virginia and Southwestern whistle while I was there. That was a good sounding whistle too, but while I had a great time, I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get to hear this whistle in person while I was there that day.
You and me both. With steam-operating heritage railroads being so popular, and Union Pacific’s steam program, you’d think that Norfolk Southern would catch on that steam excursions are good for business and public relations.
Something happened at NS after Wick Moorman left, which was in late 2015 I believe. They cut back the 2016-2017 excursions to 611 only, then NS wanted Amtrak to host 611 excursions in 2018 but the March 2018 Amtrak excursion ban put an end to that. And NS started PSR which makes it harder to justify the cost of steam excursions. NS cut crews which also make it harder to run excursions. And PTC made it harder because none of the steam locomotives used in the 21st Century steam excursions have PTC installed. A PTC diesel has to lead during 611 and 765 ferry moves. It is what it is. At least all of the steam locomotives have a place to run for the public. 611 now has the Virginia Scenic/Buckingham Branch Railroad which operates former C&O/CSX track in Virginia. 765 has a regional freight railroad from Ohio through Indiana to Michigan, and CVSR south of Cleveland, OH.
AWESOME VIDEO! My wife and I were very fortunate to have been able to ride every 21st Century Steam trip. It’s definitely a memory of a lifetime. I would do it again in a hats minute. Long live steam!! Let’s bring it back again soon!
Jaiah Hazelnut Brown I disagree. I have watched this video countless times. The editing, timing, interactive/animated maps, and incredible pacing footage all combined makes this video THE best 4501 video on the internet. Not to mention, you captured my lady friend and her mom in one of the scenes in this video way before I ever knew her. So this video is even more special to me for that reason. 😎
"they best not bump my cars, I know how to talk to them, get them to do what I want. Those oil pan bastards bump them they're gonna get a nasty surprise on the Saluda grade"
It’s now 2020 and both steam locomotives are alive and still kicking so 4501 and 630 are still at the museum and they are trying to run the trains even as this corona virus is going on
I know excursion trains on the main line have to "hold serve" with freight trains, but 4501 was running at some insane speeds here, especially for a 104-year old locomotive. Looked to be running flat-out in a couple of clips (est. 65-70 mph).
I've seen aerial shots where the old girl.was doing 45-55 mph making a test run to Cleveland (TN) in 2015 just prior to the 21st Century Steam season, but it is hard to gauge speed from a moving platform - thanks for clarifying that. Really wish they could make the Summerville run faster than 23 mph but they'd have to talk Central of GA into significantly upgrading the trackage (track speed limit is the limiting factor). Technically, they probably could still run excursions over NS trackage, they just have to work around the PSR freights and front the insurance for it (the insurance would be the killer - probably no NRHS chapter, nor TVRM could afford it).
I would estimate 40 to 45 Now back in the 70's when I rode if we were behind schedule the 01 was occasionally allowed to run 55 I think at least on one trip I was on
I was working in Juliette GA and heard the whistle of 4501 coming through Juliette going to Macon . I told the guys i was working with you may never hear that sound down this way again.
Given the current anti excursion attitude at NS I don’t think you will see 4501 on NS again for a long time if ever. They have over 100 miles of track in Tennessee and Georgia to run excursions on. 611 and 765 have used NS more recently to get to other railroads for public events this past September. NS is still allowing ferry moves of certain steam locomotives. It’s public excursions that are a risk and liability for class 1 railroads. Yet UP allowed a few public excursions this year with the Big Boy.
Even in the days when it was commonplace the Class 1 systems were disputing about the liability issues presented by use of equipment leased or belonging to private corporations and individuals; Union Pacific is different, at least as far as they agree to run steam locomotives with excursion consists that are of UP heritage. I don't know what was different in the case with Canadian Pacific 2816; maybe that was not actually run under full entitlement of CP unlike on UP? I think it is principally the management in the logistics of operating public steam excursions that is the problem; I've talked about a feasible alternative when commenting on another video documenting 611's journey home for Strasburg. Samuel F.
@@samuelfarris1949 It is a risk and liability to have public excursions on a class 1 railroad because they are publicly traded corporations and do not want a lawsuit if someone gets injured. And they don't want a steam train breaking down on a busy mainline and tying up important freight traffic. It is different on a less busy railroad like a shortline, where the 4501 normally runs on to Summerville. If 4501 stalled somewhere in Georgia, it would be less of an issue because way less freight traffic. No shareholders or profits to worry about when running on your own tracks or on a shortline that is privately held. Most tourist railroads and museums are non profits. And Norfolk Southern didn't want open windows or vestibules except if the crew needed to during the newer steam excursions. Liability again. If you ride behind the same steam locomotives on non-class 1 track, you can have open windows and open vestibule doors. 611 at Strasburg you rode in open window coaches. When it ran on NS more recently, you rode in sealed window coaches. When 765 runs at CVSR in Ohio every September, they have two older steel heavyweight open window coaches on the train. TVRM has a few open window coaches on the Summerville runs.
JF video photo thank you. I spent extra time on it compared to the usual “here’s the train at the next crossing” video. Anything you’d like to see differently?
Awesome vidsec of 4501 on the "flat-out run"! (13:53) I could feel the earth rumble under my feet. Time for a repeat performance only in the opposite direction! I want to be on it!!!
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown Do you know what the last steam engine was numbered that pulled the Nancy Hanks from Atlanta to Savahanna? I lived in Tennille at the time but was very young.
I appreciate your request. Send me a private message to let me know what you want to do. I generally don’t want any of my videos used for other projects.
@@JaiahHazelnutBrownevery time I watch this video it makes me sad to see a legend not on the mainline anymore probably not again anytime soon I never got to see it in my lifetime because I wasn’t interested in trains now I missed everything
When the flue certificate on one (4501 or 630) expires, TVRM will have to decide whether they're going to keep both operational. I hope they're able and willing, but in all likelihood, 4501 will be retired when her flue time expires (the 630 is adequate for TVRM excursions and is cheaper to maintain/operate).
@@kennethross786 That said, it's not as though she'll be sent to the breakers - another organization may eventually choose to do the required overhaul, or the current outfit may take their time rebuilding her so as to have a locomotive to use when their other engine times out or breaks down.
They should have two steam locomotives operational so that when one goes down for its rebuild, they will have the other one to use instead of a diesel.
Jaiah every time I watch this it brings tears to my eyes, having rode behind her from 1976 till about 1991 it brings back a lot of memories....
It runs at the TVRM on tracks that have a lower speed limit than NS. It does pull all day excursions to Summerville, GA and I believe they can get up to 30 mph or more on that railroad on the Georgia side. I think they upgraded the tracks in Georgia. They actually have to use a bit of NS on the Georgia runs. I think the new steam program at NS was a temporary thing to celebrate their 30th anniversary (1982-2012) which Wick Moorman started. He is a railfan who loves steam. But, now that he’s gone from NS and Jim Squires is in charge, NS is now becoming anti excursion and with PSR, they are cutting anything non essential to normal freight operations including the F units which two were bought by Reading and Northern for excursion service. NS is a publicly traded corporation, which means they have to show a profit every quarter for their shareholders and cut costs. CEO’s like Claytor and Moorman are rare.
Only 2/4 were bought by RBMN. I forget where the other 2 went. My dad does the sound for RBMN and so we got a tour of their facilities, and it was right after they bought them. We were the first people to see their new paint scheme, which is awesome!
Non essential is a misnomer, they’re cutting costs at the expense of their own long term health.
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown ns should look at union Pacifics excursions they are actually going great maybe moorman will come back!!!!
Nicely done; thumbs up! I'm happy to say I rode in 4501's cab when it was still on the K&T in Kentucky (as No. 12).
I don’t know how many times I’ve watched this video over the past few years, you truly did execute this video perfectly. Maybe one day we can get this back, but highly doubt it.
I love how they revived the steam program but ended it after just three or four years. makes you wonder what was the point if they couldn't keep it going as long as the original
Two reasons. First, it was Wick Moorman's thing. He brought it back and when he retired, no one else wanted to keep it going. Second, PTC was quickly becoming a requirement and no one with NS wanted to invest the time or money on getting these engines ready for it.
The 21st Century program was only intended to be for five years. They actually allowed two more seasons of 611 only excursions. 2016 and 2017. And that was after Wick retired in 2015. I rode two 765 excursions in PA and one 611 excursion in Manassas, VA. And 611 again in Sept. 2019 at Strasburg. I live near Allentown, PA and the second 765 excursion went from near Bethlehem to Pittston and back over NS and RBMN. I missed almost all mainline excursions in the 80’s up to 2012. Meaning excursions on class 1 railroads like Conrail with equipment from tourist railroads like BM&R, Strasburg, etc. I just rode train rides on their own track mostly but I did ride behind the PRR #1361 in August 1988 from York, PA to Menges Mills.
Of all the CZcams videos that I have seen of 4501 to date (that I haven't posted, that is), this is my favorite of them. Good pacing shots, excellent stack talk, good trackside views, and a good sounding whistle. 10 out of 10 for a great video. 4501 is one of my top 10 favorite locomotives, and I got to meet her last year, and I even got to ride her on the TVRM cab ride. However, this whistle wasn't on her for the trip. She was running a Virginia and Southwestern whistle while I was there. That was a good sounding whistle too, but while I had a great time, I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get to hear this whistle in person while I was there that day.
Thanks. It was a fun day, and the video was fun to make. Not my favorite engine to work on but that day was a real show.
It’s upsetting that the Steam Program ended too soon, wish it will come back one day soon!
You and me both. With steam-operating heritage railroads being so popular, and Union Pacific’s steam program, you’d think that Norfolk Southern would catch on that steam excursions are good for business and public relations.
Good news, she runs again!
Something happened at NS after Wick Moorman left, which was in late 2015 I believe. They cut back the 2016-2017 excursions to 611 only, then NS wanted Amtrak to host 611 excursions in 2018 but the March 2018 Amtrak excursion ban put an end to that. And NS started PSR which makes it harder to justify the cost of steam excursions. NS cut crews which also make it harder to run excursions. And PTC made it harder because none of the steam locomotives used in the 21st Century steam excursions have PTC installed. A PTC diesel has to lead during 611 and 765 ferry moves. It is what it is. At least all of the steam locomotives have a place to run for the public. 611 now has the Virginia Scenic/Buckingham Branch Railroad which operates former C&O/CSX track in Virginia. 765 has a regional freight railroad from Ohio through Indiana to Michigan, and CVSR south of Cleveland, OH.
AWESOME VIDEO! My wife and I were very fortunate to have been able to ride every 21st Century Steam trip. It’s definitely a memory of a lifetime. I would do it again in a hats minute. Long live steam!! Let’s bring it back again soon!
The best video of 4501 ever made.
Delay In Block Productions well that’s flattering but there’s better stuff out there. Thank you though!
Jaiah Hazelnut Brown I disagree. I have watched this video countless times. The editing, timing, interactive/animated maps, and incredible pacing footage all combined makes this video THE best 4501 video on the internet. Not to mention, you captured my lady friend and her mom in one of the scenes in this video way before I ever knew her. So this video is even more special to me for that reason. 😎
@@DelayInBlockProductions where are they in the video? Curious because there's virtually no one in any of the scenes.
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown She and her mother are in the last scene at Collegedale, the ones exiting the truck.
Gosh I love the pacing. Had chills the whole time!
Kick out the guy who ended the steam program on NS and put somebody who appreciates trains in there.
Way I see it, 4501 wasn't being held up by the freight, she was inspecting it, making sure those diesels are doing her job right.
well would you look at the chaos
"they best not bump my cars, I know how to talk to them, get them to do what I want. Those oil pan bastards bump them they're gonna get a nasty surprise on the Saluda grade"
This was very well put together. Thanks for the long day and hard work. It’s sad but great to see a steamer running at mainline speed
Love your video my Dad ran 4501 in 1976
6:10 HOLY CRAP A RARE B32-8 and a C40-9 leading!
It’s now 2020 and both steam locomotives are alive and still kicking so 4501 and 630 are still at the museum and they are trying to run the trains even as this corona virus is going on
Anytime I see steam going fast, all I hear in their whistle is
"WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!😀😀"
Wonderfully done~! Excellent production~ thank you for preserving this great footage!
Jeff Detwiler thank you.
25:36 I keep coming back to this part! :)
I know excursion trains on the main line have to "hold serve" with freight trains, but 4501 was running at some insane speeds here, especially for a 104-year old locomotive. Looked to be running flat-out in a couple of clips (est. 65-70 mph).
Kenneth Ross it was only doing about 40, but still impressive.
I've seen aerial shots where the old girl.was doing 45-55 mph making a test run to Cleveland (TN) in 2015 just prior to the 21st Century Steam season, but it is hard to gauge speed from a moving platform - thanks for clarifying that. Really wish they could make the Summerville run faster than 23 mph but they'd have to talk Central of GA into significantly upgrading the trackage (track speed limit is the limiting factor). Technically, they probably could still run excursions over NS trackage, they just have to work around the PSR freights and front the insurance for it (the insurance would be the killer - probably no NRHS chapter, nor TVRM could afford it).
I would estimate 40 to 45
Now back in the 70's when I rode if we were behind schedule the 01 was occasionally allowed to run 55 I think at least on one trip I was on
I was working in Juliette GA and heard the whistle of 4501 coming through Juliette going to Macon . I told the guys i was working with you may never hear that sound down this way again.
Loved the video. Love the 4501. The city is Chattanooga rather than Chatn-nooga.
Great video! We were just up the railroad from you at Cohutta.
You just caught an extinct diesel locomotive 8820 was a C40-9 and it was rebuilt into a AC44C6M all of the C40-9 rebuilt
Neat!
My beloved 4501 i rode behind her over memorial day weekend this year
Given the current anti excursion attitude at NS I don’t think you will see 4501 on NS again for a long time if ever. They have over 100 miles of track in Tennessee and Georgia to run excursions on. 611 and 765 have used NS more recently to get to other railroads for public events this past September. NS is still allowing ferry moves of certain steam locomotives. It’s public excursions that are a risk and liability for class 1 railroads. Yet UP allowed a few public excursions this year with the Big Boy.
Even in the days when it was commonplace the Class 1 systems were disputing about the liability issues presented by use of equipment leased or belonging to private corporations and individuals; Union Pacific is different, at least as far as they agree to run steam locomotives with excursion consists that are of UP heritage.
I don't know what was different in the case with Canadian Pacific 2816; maybe that was not actually run under full entitlement of CP unlike on UP? I think it is principally the management in the logistics of operating public steam excursions that is the problem; I've talked about a feasible alternative when commenting on another video documenting 611's journey home for Strasburg. Samuel F.
@@samuelfarris1949 It is a risk and liability to have public excursions on a class 1 railroad because they are publicly traded corporations and do not want a lawsuit if someone gets injured. And they don't want a steam train breaking down on a busy mainline and tying up important freight traffic. It is different on a less busy railroad like a shortline, where the 4501 normally runs on to Summerville. If 4501 stalled somewhere in Georgia, it would be less of an issue because way less freight traffic. No shareholders or profits to worry about when running on your own tracks or on a shortline that is privately held. Most tourist railroads and museums are non profits. And Norfolk Southern didn't want open windows or vestibules except if the crew needed to during the newer steam excursions. Liability again. If you ride behind the same steam locomotives on non-class 1 track, you can have open windows and open vestibule doors. 611 at Strasburg you rode in open window coaches. When it ran on NS more recently, you rode in sealed window coaches. When 765 runs at CVSR in Ohio every September, they have two older steel heavyweight open window coaches on the train. TVRM has a few open window coaches on the Summerville runs.
It's my dream to chase an engine at this speed someday
That pacing shot is amazing!
Great all-around video. Keep up the good work!
JF video photo thank you. I spent extra time on it compared to the usual “here’s the train at the next crossing” video. Anything you’d like to see differently?
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown Not really. You did a great job on this!
Rode the 4501 from Rome to Chattanooga in the 70s.
Awesome vidsec of 4501 on the "flat-out run"! (13:53) I could feel the earth rumble under my feet. Time for a repeat performance only in the opposite direction! I want to be on it!!!
Nice work!
I think I asked this before but I can’t find the comment now but, what software did you use to animate the maps? Is it Adobe after effects?
5 Stars JH, as usual.
GW
So if 4501 going to keep running in 2023 or not?
4501 is still runnin on the Tennessee Valley railroad museum train
She runs every weekend in Chattanooga on the TVRM.
Great video👍👍
How fast approx was she running at Powder Springs Pacing Shot? 🤔
40-ish.
a dash 9 with a K5LLA! on 5:40
I wish they kept the locomotive running
It still runs, just not like this. It basically is limited to 20 MPH or less now.
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown That's a real waste of potential. Surely a run at 40 to 50 MPH wouldn't be too bad once in a while, right?
She runs every weekend at the TVRM in Chattanooga.
NYC&STL
Paint it green said no one ever, probably.
Is the 4501 pulling or are the diesels pushing?
The diesels weren’t doing any work.
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown Do you know what the last steam engine was numbered that pulled the Nancy Hanks from Atlanta to Savahanna? I lived in Tennille at the time but was very young.
May I use your video and footage for my Trainz video?
I appreciate your request. Send me a private message to let me know what you want to do. I generally don’t want any of my videos used for other projects.
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown oh alright, where can I dm you to let details of the video?
@@Henriqueleal0609 just message me here
@@JaiahHazelnutBrown oh, well I was planning on remaking the video on Trainz, or a small part
6:43
Will it ever run on the NS rails again?
It technically does when it goes from Chattanooga to Rossville.
@@JaiahHazelnutBrownevery time I watch this video it makes me sad to see a legend not on the mainline anymore probably not again anytime soon I never got to see it in my lifetime because I wasn’t interested in trains now I missed everything
@@robertmitchell1272 if you want to see steam at it’s best in the United States you have to go to Durango or Reading.
902
Does this mean Southern #4501 isn’t running anymore?
DestroyerGaming not on the mainline. You won’t see it go more than 15 or 20 MPH unless something major changes.
Ok
Pls make a video of #Awvr777
Is 4501 getting retired?
Jeremy Asher eventually.
When the flue certificate on one (4501 or 630) expires, TVRM will have to decide whether they're going to keep both operational. I hope they're able and willing, but in all likelihood, 4501 will be retired when her flue time expires (the 630 is adequate for TVRM excursions and is cheaper to maintain/operate).
@@kennethross786 That said, it's not as though she'll be sent to the breakers - another organization may eventually choose to do the required overhaul, or the current outfit may take their time rebuilding her so as to have a locomotive to use when their other engine times out or breaks down.
2015 was retired but now it's running again
They should have two steam locomotives operational so that when one goes down for its rebuild, they will have the other one to use instead of a diesel.
6:52