A Nuanced Conversation About COVID Vaccines (Yes, Really!) | The Problem with Jon Stewart Podcast
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- čas přidán 10. 01. 2023
- We’re back and we’re coming in hot with a conversation about COVID vaccines! We’re joined by Dr. Gregory A. Poland (Director of Mayo Clinic’s Vaccine Research Group), Dr. Saad Omer (Director of the Yale Institute for Global Health), and Zeynep Tufekci (Professor at Columbia University) who bring something that’s often lacking from these conversations: nuance. We talk through why many non-crazy people are hesitant to get vaccinated, how our public health institutions have failed to communicate effectively with the masses, and why it should be perfectly okay to ask questions about the risks and benefits of any vaccine. Plus, writers Tocarra Mallard and Kasaun Wilson are here talking about sneezing at the sight of the sun.
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#covid #covid19 #podcast - Komedie
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Everything about how this pandemic has been handled is shaping up to be the biggest medical and political scandal of our time.
I know right. Like how Ron DeSantis the governor of Florida who advocated for Floridians to take the COVID vaccine. Now he wants to start a probe and investigate what is inside the vaccine.
@@iamallenheyliger Yup! At least I'll give him credit for taking that risk and also for not pushing mandates. Everyone else is playing dumb or outright denial in the face of mounting evidence, including Trump who, like everything else he's taken credit for, keeps touting them as "wonderful, beautiful, phenomenal, absolutely incredible and gorgeous."
On purpose
The way you did it in the US, sure. They way many other countries did it, not so much.
@@pinkfloydhomer Yup!!
Trust is built when those in charge openly admit their mistakes.
Absolutely. BUT, this is a 2-way street. You can't expect anyone to admit to anything if they're crucified by an angry mob for every flub. This is a problem of our own making. We have to demand transparency, and then have a little bit of grace. And we need to be a LOT more rational.
Trust is held when those in charge don't purposefully lie and push untested/minimally tested as though it was highly tested and does what they say it does and potential harm is known.
@@jeanduffy7949 What was tested minimally? The vaccines?
If that's what you are referring to, they were tested quite thoroughly. There were tons of trials, and they were happening in parallel to speed it up .... because we couldn't wait a year for them to be done any other way.
I've heard two completely different interviews with experts in the field of virology and vaccination. Both have said the truly critical period is the first 48 hours. After that, if you're OK, then the overwhelming likelihood is that you'll _continue_ to be OK. Nonetheless, trials were run for longer periods, of course.
At this point, the COVID vaccinations rank up there as some of the most tested in the world, just by nature of how many people have gotten them (multiple times even), in how many different demographic groups, and how much scrutiny they got during roll-out.
I am completely certain they are as safe as they can be. Sure, we don't know if there's some incredibly rare side effect that you only find out about 50 years after the fact -- and by definition, we can't be sure of that within one lifetime. But, again, we didn't have that long to spare.
@@nickwallette6201 Holy Gullible Geese! Bill Gates' vast network of overpaid hacks have really done a number on you.
@@nickwallette6201 yeah, because 48 hours is all that is needed, not long term testing like every single vaccine ever before this one. How much do you get paid to simp for big pharma? How many people need to "die suddenly" before you pull your head out of your ass and admit these "vaccines" aren't even remotely safe?
These people should be in open debates with the experts who warn us about the danger of these treatments, not only here, also they should be fighting against censure and manipulation of information. Ask yourself why they are not doing that....
Yes. I, also see a significant portion of the US has been conditioned (perhaps by social media, responding to the cheerleading, the influencers in commercials, etc.) to respond to very basic messages. We didn't hear or see that very often and the consistency of message wasn't there in the media, either. Information was sliced and diced every which way and those who spoke at a deeper level took different sides, but with very few people to acknowledge the knowns from both sides balanced against the unknowns. This discussion may be the type of forum we need to help see clearly when developing better communication to the diverse population who want to hear and comprehend what can be done in response to a pandemic.
@@mercy3219 You point precisely proves this is not a "conspiracy theory" but a conspiracy. Time to time.
@@dm.b7560 I'm not so sure about what I said carrying the weight of "proof" (lol), but I do think my observations align with those who have made similar statements about availability of information presented in a way we can have access to what is happening in real time. Maybe.
@@mercy3219 The proof comes with basic common sense, based on your statement, when you had politicians offering burgers on TV for people to take an experimental treatment, at the same time they ignored, mocked and censured PHDs, Novel prices, experts and thousands of doctors, not allowing us to have an open debate, that is called a hidden motive, and so, a conspiracy... as I said, time to time, it seems to me everyone has lost this common sense....
@@dm.b7560 I understand your comment better, thanks.
Dr John Campbell has been amazing over the last 2 years. There is a reason why he has over 2 Million subscribers.
Also what about the guy that sat on both Pfizer and Reuters board. Now there's a conflict.
The distrust in medicine in the USA 🇺🇸 is not just this abstract question of potential conflicts of interest and revolving door positions between politics and the medical profession.
We have been a public living within a for profit, capitalized medical system for decades. This isn't a niche market. Everyone goes to the doctor, and if they have some kind of issue going on, they go more often. As a public, we get ignored, blown off, ripped off, conned and are the victims of self interest in a system with misaligned incentives. And if you haven't been through this system for decades, you know and love someone who has.
Distrust in the healthcare system is a huge market for scammers of all shapes and stripes some of them inserted in said system and tons operating from without but very often using YT ads and channels to shamelessly sell their BS .
RNA is different and by not immediately pointing this out, you’ve discredited your conversation.
Not surprised that “Lock-step”Stewart got 4 jabs.
And these doctors are in Big Pharma’s back pocket and pretty good con artists to boot.
Don’t forget that the companies that made the vaccines like J&J and Pfizer are riddled with scandal where they sold a product to the public that they knew was far more harmful then what it was being used for. Congress gave these companies legal immunity from anything that came out of the vaccines. We will likely find out that the more common side effects were well known by the developers and they used their influence to cover up and suppress the conversation around those side effects.
Congress gave companies that would sell you battery acid in a syringe immunity from lawsuit and the White House shut down common sense pushbacks against these products. This is what the problem was and it has resulted in the destruction of trust in the NIH, CDC and FDA
It's different but not better in a universal healthcare system. The doctors are condescending - perhaps more so as they have authority. This is why some people have become anti-expertise. They conflate condescension with conspiracy.
Since it needs to be said, this whole conversation was too pc. I feel like you haven't talked about many subjects and some you only touched on/brought it up.
For example, why are you not talking about how the idea that even after discussing the "facts" you don't stratify the data? Why are you not acknowledging that children have basically no risk from covid but far more from the vaccines, AS OPPOSED TO all the pc stuff you peddled about the vaccine being a better choice (yeah, if you're vulnerable - so why does the conversation stop there every time? Why not stratify?)?
Dude from Denmark here. I wouldn't call the US covid handling a "success" as Jon does here. You guys had the highest death rate per capita and one of the most expensive ways of handling covid.
The requisite sop to the party line. Any slight questioning of the vaccine narrative in the past two years has to prefaced with, peppered with, and followed up with statements of obeisance, to try and avoid the censors. The "great success of our program" is one that always makes me cringe.
@@drellisf nothing wrong with the vaccines, but Denmark used them to handle covid in a smart way, the US not so much. There have been heated debate in Denmark as well but the numbers don't lie. Vaccines helped immensely on both mortality, economics, load on the healthcare system etc.
@@pinkfloydhomer what do you mean there's nothing wrong with the vaccines. First of all they aren't vaccines. Second of all it's proven that it causes heart problems and blood clots. Third of all it was forced on people that it doesn't even effect which is 6 months to 44 years old. These people should be hung at dawn for lying to the World
Dude from Denmark, you should be livid with The US. We worked on Gain Of Function Research with China, worked with the French to set up their Lab, and when there was outrage after an announcement in a major journal, The Obama Admin Banned GOF experiments and their funding. until a board could investigate.
What does Fauci do? He funds a shell company and transfers it all to China losing direct oversight.
Did Denmark stop the Vaccine for people under 18? I'm vaccinated but I'm not sure if kids need it.
It is difficult to understand how Jon Stewart and many others are NOW having, "doubts"? I am shocked it took this long for people to question things. Regardless, I am very thankful that your eyes are opening up.
Look how much viewership John has lost since his disastrous Clinton interview. I suppose this is a desperate attempt to gain acceptance again.
You broke many-a heart with your stone cold betrayal of truth and justice Steward. Just as you betrayed your former self. As it turns out you too are nothing but an establishment Hollywood corporate shill and a shell of what you once were.
Even your starting statement seems so incredibly dumb and uninformed. The fact that you are having this discussion ONLY NOW does not make this edgy, or critical. We have been warning you for years now with our concerns. But you called us killers for it. Banned, censored and segregated us.
But who knows... In the end the truth is what matters. I hope you are finally able to find more of it as so many of us were able to, by avoiding the misinformation spread by the Blackrock and Vanguard owned media channels and reading into the actual science, instead of only 'trusting' it blindly as you and your ilk told people to do.
But let's see...
Yes, it's a turn off. I make my choices. Period. I'm highly vaccinated, but not this one, not flu shots.
It's slowly becoming ok to address such things
These panelists are still giving public health the benefit of doubt and that they inadvertently miscommunicated. Public health and government purposely miscommunicated. Why do the panelists believe the government studies on safety of the vaccines when they acknowledge public health was wrong on everything else?
I've been seeing my family Doctor for over 20 years now. I asked him about the Covid Vaccination, and didn't learn much new from this, except more accurate figures. I'm also in Australia, where I think we trust our Government more than the US, although not completely. We did follow America to Iraq based on lies.
Why was this exact discussion not taking place IDK a year....maybe 2 ago??
Liars
@@gramma677 Gramma, Adam trusted Eve.
Because this podcast has only existed since the end of September 2021 ?
It couldn't have happened more than 16 months ago.
Also, we're still in this. What comes after Omicron ? (because I can tell you, herd immunity hasn't happened yet)
I would suggest this should be treated as a better informed progress report *during* a pandemic (which has the benefit of an accumulated data set some of which was not previously available).
Look over the history of pandemics.
Encephalitis lethargica happened just a little over a century ago. It was the other pandemic which was happening while the 1918-1920 'flu was. No-one knows for sure where it came from (and therefore how it got started); or where it went (and therefore why it stopped). There isn't even a consensus on what exactly it was (and therefore what caused it).
We do know that the first identifiable infections occurred as early as 1916 and new cases tapered off twelve years later (after 1928) with the highest peaks in new infections in 1920 and 1924. A commission to document cases and develop a cure was established in 1927, but was defunded and dissolved in 1940 (without having developed either a preventative or therapeutic protocol).
Since it was a multinational committee, I suspect its abolition was probably caused by World War II. About 80 new cases have been diagnosed worldwide since 1940.
There was never any means of prevention or outright cure identified, no effective treatment for its symptoms until well after (in the 1960's, which provided some relief to those who continued to suffer from the lingering effects of infection four decades later) and human endeavour had no effect on how long people would continue to develop the disease in large numbers.
I still think it's likely that SARS-Cov-2 will become an additional annual, seasonal infection, like the 'flu. Different strains from year to year, with a varying degrees of transmissibility and virulence. But I'm certain we can't yet say that it has ended, nor when (or if) it will end.
@@FionaOfMountLawley This conversation didn't need to take place on this particular podcast...just in general on any real forum. But alas this pretty mild Convo would have been censored or removed 2 years ago and labeled misinformation...
@@gramma677 and it was it used as a political football during an election season by both sides, with lots of blatant misinformation from anti vaxxers. It stopped being about the science and about trying to own them other side.
You don’t “develop a science around trust” - you tell the fucking truth.
You say that like humans automatically know and believe the truth.
The reason why humans don't believe the "truth" is due to all the lies that were told before hand.
100%. Well said. And, something I thought everyone knew. You lie: people wont trust you any more. Apparently the CDC, Fauci, Pfizer and the MSM especially dont seem to know this. Politicians have always lied but the rest of them had at least a little bit of trust before this.
@@neilmcdonaldii4367 Or maybe we evolved to survive in an environment full of natural predators and devoid of food and water.
@@ricochetbabalon257 Who are you talking to, "comrade"?
Perhaps we need a political system where lying or even misleading the public HAS REAL CONSEQUENSES!!! It seems that we have come to accept that politicians (as well as others in powerful positions in society) lie as common practice. It should then follow that as time goes on, the distrust will increase as this is validated again and again. Politicians obviously cannot police themselves, therefore we must build into the system, consequences to rebuild trust. The same way we need to build mechanisms into capitalism to police greed and corruption because they cannot police themselves.
100% -- but it also requires US to stop being so dogmatic about party loyalty, or even single-issue voting, and stop contributing to the incentive to be so shameless.
I've talked to so many people who would follow Trump to the depths of Hell because either: "He's a terrible person, but..." 1) "I can't stand voting for a Democrat," or 2) "I can't vote for killing babies." (Which in and of itself is such a diminutive synopsis of the pro-choice / pro-life debate that I can barely stand it.... but it is what it is.)
Character matters, and if we show that we're OK with any means to an end, we get just that.
Yes, this social acceptance of lying is so disappointing. I was hearing a young social worker here in Norway tell a child that lying a bit is ok, that everyone does it. That was in such stark contrast to my own upbringing where you were made to have a very bad conscience if you lied. I was thinking, where's this going to end? Now we see what happens. Telling the truth needs a new renaissance.
Also, I saw a statement somewhere about how many times the average person lies in a day. Unbelievable to me, because I can't even remember the last time I lied. Oh, yes, I remember now, I lied to a policeman about 10 years ago about how fast I had been driving, I'm not proud of it.
Well said!! 👏 👏
It has real consequences.
We are now finding out that enough conservative voters have died in certain areas to actually swing local elections now.
Rather than “we can’t handle the truth,“ I think it is that we have not been educated to understand information given to us. I am a former journalist, and when I was in school in the early 80s, I was taught to write to the eighth grade level, but by the time I graduated and got my first job in 1983, I was told to notch it down to the sixth grade level, because that is where the public was able to absorb what you say. A very very sad and frightening situation in our nation.
This! My mom is a retired teacher and whenever we talk about the news, one of us will say something like "yet another totally obvious and foreseeable consequence of cutting funding for education..."
Also in the early 80s, local news organizations were being bought up by large major corporations, and seeing their staffs hugely reduced. Suddenly, instead of being able to report complete stories with context and nuance, the new standard became to produce simple one side’s statement versus another side’s statement, and call that complete! Horrible, and this is our result now.
@@jeaneisenhower8508 Yeah, i'm a mental health counselor and have worked in a lot of different settings. It's a similar story everywhere that doesn't put profit above all else: education, news, hospitals, healthcare broadly, mental healthcare (community mh centers were more common in the 60s and 70s but sold to private investors in the 80s, most have shut down, and what remains is just scary), postal service, etc, etc... Just took a full generation growing up under these policy/program/funding shift to realize the wider social consequences on a scale that can no longer be ignored
@@gramma677 it is hard to teach people from broken/impoverished neighborhoods. And most private charter schools/Christian academies do an even worse job statistically. What is your solution?
But when you see the Karens staggering around with their combination of mental illness and mental disability, I feel like you can never underestimate how unintelligent many Americans are.
The way unvaxxed people were demonised, lost jobs and so forth and now it's been brushed aside as business as usual. I refused to be vaccination because the information was too conflicting and was lucky enough to WFH and self isolate. Having an option and choice against government and pharmaceutical companies really is hard, but we have to understand it's our right.
They said the unvaccinated would overwhelm the hospitals-- my own parents had mental breakdowns thinking I would die if I didn't get these shots.
2 years later and I feel great. Unfortunately my sister has myocarditis after her hospital.made her get 3 "safe and effective" doses to keep her job.
Loved ones died directly because of unvaccinated people. It's murder you didn't have to look at.
It wasn’t just conveying too much certainty, it was the aggressive, systematic suppression of uncertainty, even of those who experienced severe injury. Our family lived it and are still living it.
bingo. Lets pretend a lot of the concerns weren't true like they have been revealed to be, the fact that people were asking genuine questions and how those questions were handled were concerning as a citizen of a somewhat democratic society and concerning as it isn't a scientific approach. Also concerning how easily some people can put all their trust in some of the most untrustworthy corporations to have ever existed....pharma companies.
Incorrect, people who were unsure weren't suppressed. Just spreaders of misinformation
We were called murderers and terrorists. We lost our jobs and relationships. The media has turned neighbors into enemies...
@@kingkoi6542 Humanity had lost its fucking mind. One doctor had a great quote "there is an inverse relationship between fear and a person's ability to engage in critical thinking". What I don't get is that there was so much completely irrational bullshit in the narratives. If the vaccines worked, you don't need the unvaccinated to get them to protect the vaccinated. That never made sense for two seconds. All the bullying and shaming, humans can be animals.
Excess deaths in the UK is at around 3,000 (that's one 911) a week, every week. The auditor of the Office of National Statistics has just conceded there are zero statistical proofs the vaccines had any effect on death rates or levels of sickness or even infection.
You won't see anything in the press though.
If health authorities just told the truth, the population would not have become so mistrustful.
They did, it's not a religion it's science.... data changes so the truth or best path forward changes
Yes just like these fools they actually believe their own fantasies.
Agree. I am a healthcare worker that no longer trusts healthcare
@Bret Bauer ironic I am a healthacre worker that knew in Nov 2021 that natural immunity is effective as well as Europe, but US government and healthcare denied it.
@@denisekruczyk6847 you don't understand viruses or evolution much do you? The point of a vaccine is to introduce the virus or flu in a controlled setting and it allows your body to build up antibodies to whatever flu or virus you are trying to prevent. So when you do get infected your body goes oh shit this shouldn't be here and begins to fight the illness. Yes natural immunity happens but your body is slower to react to fighting whatever illness making the illness worse and more deadlier in some cases.
This panel speaks with an authority they don't possess
This is so rare to hear this sort discussion. I am not an extreme on most issues. Nuanced conversation is so refreshing. I don't know why it has to be almost impossible to have conversations like this. People are too tribal, and us vs. them
Loved ones died directly because of unvaccinated people. It's murder you didn't have to look at. That's why.
My partner lost her job while she was working from home .she was breastfeeding at the time and there were NO clinical trials on breastfeeding women.. she was not offered an exemption..
Her 12 year career in government was swept out from underneath her... everyone was completely apathetic to her situation.
This happened to so many individuals. This in my mind was absolutely disgusting and i will NEVER forget how people treated people like us out of fear and political motivation.. shame on all of you who stood by and allowed this to happen.. I WILL NEVER FORGET
You shouldn't say something like this. For all you know you might bang your head and lose your memory, and then you'll feel like a right old idiot having puts in caps on the internet of all places that you will never forget.
@@richardhorrocks1460 what a pointless comment.
Same as. Horrifying watching people you considered intelligent human beings fall for it, with no question asked. The celebrities and politicians that called us granny killers and covidiots are too stupid to see the overall picture. I know one young person who died, and one who has had a heart attack straight after vaccination. Several health workers who refused and lost there jobs. I have had covid 3 times I am 60 with bad lungs and I will never take the jab.
@@richardhorrocks1460 You must’ve just banged your head to write such a dumb comment.
In January 2021 Doctors stated these injections were “safe and effective” in pregnancy, without any evidence. Today we pay the price.
I can't trust a product where I legally am not allowed to sue the manufacturer when their product injures me.
100%
...like guns?
@@chirkotelhin1806 not even close to the same. That would be suing a pitch fork manufacturer because you stabbed your foot. That is your own fault, you have control over the object.
A vaccine, we as users, have no control over the outcome and in many cases, no option to opt out.
@@chirkotelhin1806 If there were an inherent flaw where the person firing it was injured-that would be an allowable suit?
@@jlaw1901 it's exactly the same
A large part of the problem is that health authorities have to seem infallible, because a lot of times if they claim they’re unsure about something, then something goes wrong, they’re getting sued for malpractice. So doctors tend to act a lot more confidence than they actually are.
Absolutely
You didn't show the other side. Plenty of people you could have included.
Vaccine damaged here
Since dose two, my body has overproduced GQ1B antibody and I now have Fisher Syndrome.
I’m part of a study at a university. It’s been awful.
Everyone thinks I’m anti vax but I got vaccinated.
This video is another ad for these harmful things that ruined my life.
We will all see one day. In the meantime I have no recourse or access to help because everyone (except the four neurologists taking care of me) thinks I’m crazy including my government.
Dropped the ball on this one Jon. You helped the EMS workers from 911 but missed a chance to help folks like me, with vaccine induced neurological problems
They don't want your opinion here
Sorry we live in Idiocracy
He certainly let a lot slide and go unaddressed here, but it may be a step in the right direction. He was "allowed" to ask a few of the many questions floating around out here, and he seemed to be actually learning some things as it went along. If people who have been in lockstep with mainstream narrative are to question the authorities and maybe see things differently, it might have to start with such baby steps. I think many who break free do so because they know someone, or many someones, like you. Some of us can see the reality around us, rather than just subscribing to the party line. That may be why so many with stories like yours have been censored, a truly 1984-ish evil. I'm so glad you are in a study, and I wish for you a path to complete wellness.
Unfortunately he didn't drop the ball. He threw the whole damn game on purpose and now he's just playing damage control.
Sorry to hear….My mum and I had similar symptoms after the vax…my mom was diagnosed with neurological illness called Giant Cell Arteritis. She lost her vision in one eye…told her it was a stroke…until she started losing vision in the other. She is now 90% blind.
So worried I will get what she did.
Researched up and lots of people on GCA forums are getting diagnosed after the vax.
I feel like people who think this conversation is honest, refreshing and new have been in an NPR coma for three years.
Yup, 100% brainwashed.
It is only refreshing in that there is some self reflection on mistakes made. Of course, it didn’t’t address any of the big issues
No, willful ignorance, arrogance, and fear of being in the out group
Well said. This is such a basic conversation. It’s quite sad.
Go check out dr Drew’s channel where he’s having real conversations about what is actually happening.
This is the best conversation I have heard on this topic. I'm vaxxed but my God was it awful, the amount of hate I saw written online about people who weren't vaxxed or had questions. The isolation and depression I felt from this last year has scarred some relationships. All I had were concerns and questions. All I got was hate and being treated like I was the dumbest piece of shit. It was absolutely awful. Thank you for this brilliant conversation. It has been so necessary to have. Some people just don't want to be demonized for having concerns--is that really too much to ask?
This is a great comment!! 🙌 I feel exactly the same way!
The evil, hubris, and barbarism from those pushing the shots helped persuade me NOT to take it. And I'm in the better position now for it. So in that sense, it was a good thing.
How can you build trust hiding the data for 75 years ?
John will have a show in two years how could they have lied to us .
Indeed.
Hopefully he's alive after having four vaccines. I'm not saying one way or another, because I don't know and none of us do.
Shouldve been today
If John has a show in 2 years, he made his bones with fans that had brains and now...
Captain Hindsight
This to me seems like a perfect example of a "limited hangout".
Yes
I used to be young and foolish, and used to admire Jon Stewart. He's years behind the curve on this, and calls this a 'nuanced conversation'. The bigger conversation is, why was everyone silenced, and kept from speaking during it all, shut down, lives and careers ruined. Jon is a slave to his overlords, and not the free speaking forward thinker he and so many think he is.
Jon Stewart is their go-to guy for when the narrative falls apart and then he gaslights us into forgetting all of the lies, abuse, and propaganda we faced.
@@arkology_city Your comment is only viewable in my notification feed. Under the actual video, CZcams has censored and hidden your comment, fyi.
@@CaliTXman Yeah I've been shadowbanned for a while now. czcams.com/video/HUre3mYZuGs/video.html
The VA facilities and Cleveland Clinic still require masks. Not over.
This isn't over for the vulnerable. 3 years, N95s, minimizing exposure risks. 2/3 of us (friends) infected at restaurant. Whole house now infected. Vaccines and boosters kept us out of inpatient. 2 scares for 2 of us took us to ER.
That anyone can watch this without gagging would blow my mind. John Stuart’s eye brows are frozen in a faux concerned slant. I can’t even…
And so you're putting yourself through this gagging because...?
@Dreamingrightnow: because we are curious what they are saying NOW and why these discussions were practically shut down when we truly needed them...not 3 years later. (And you knew that probably, but for some reason asked anyway. 🙄)
Im not hesitant. Im not gettin it. period
I’m not confused either
Lmao
I think that "building the plane while we're flying it" analogy was great. We're standing on shifting sands.
If they hadn't rushed the vaccine most people would have found other reasons to b*tch about.
Too many people looking for problems instead of solutions.
That isn't what they were saying about the vaccine when it came out...
The edge of our knowledge is always shifting. When the pandemic came, it was new science, nothing was settled, but we still needed to act. What Jon is saying is they should have been more transparent about this. The trouble is the way people would have reacted to that. We are a knee jerk, reactionary bunch!
@@scottonandrew That’s actually not true. Covid was new, yes, but it was the 8th coronavirus we have come across that infects humans. Covid was a standard respiratory virus and acted just like any other respiratory virus from that family when it came to transmission, symptoms and possible treatments. Before the vaccines came out, there was a whole year of data showing that prior infection did not stop future infection. Any belief that the vaccines would slow the spread or prevent infection was just fantasy from day one. We find out this year that the vaccines were never tested for transmission and it makes sense they were because we have never developed a vaccine that prevents infection of a respiratory virus. The incubation period for respiratory viruses are only 4-7 days compared to 2 weeks for measles and polio. Testing the vaccine for transmission would be as much a waste of time for them as Ford Motors testing to see if their trucks floated in the water.
@scottonandrew Health officials made a huge mistake. They went against established protocol and mass-vaccinated people during the heat of a pandemic with a "vaccine" that can't neutralize the virus. Now there are variants being pushed and infections are being enhanced instead of reduced, due to ADE.
Seeing a young nurse collapse from the covid vaccines turned me off them from the very beginning despite having multiple sclerosis and multiple myeloma.
Smart
The illusion that corners were being cut. That was not an illusion. It is a proven fact.
Great discussion. After my second Pfizer vaccine I developed an acute inflammatory condition in both arms and hands (it started a week after the 1st but I chalked it up to working out too hard). It lasted for well over a year. A close friend ended up in the emergency room with extreme vertigo and ear issues a few hours after her Moderna booster. 1 year later she still has hearing loss in one ear. We are both healthy women in our early 50"s.
again there's many thousands of us that took one for the team and are written off as collateral damage. most health policy was administered to manage costs, supply, and wholely economic concerns. we all knew the goal was to manage deaths and illness to allow our dysfunctional hc system to process the sick with out collapsing
Americans are not good with probability and odds
I've heard some women stop having menstrual cycles after they got a vaccine...
Jon, why don't you have three doctors interviewed who have each treated about 10000 patients each successfully for Covid? My guess is that these three treated a total of zero patients collectively.
Faux-ci included still makes zero.
Absolutely! Where is Dr Peter McCollough or Dr Vinay Prasad?
Because these clowns will push the same bullshit
All three of them are drug salesmen. Don’t care how credentialed they are
Jon had NYT reporter... all these people who lied or stayed silent while very brave Doctors stood up for the truth and were canceled...there careers were threatened or ruined when they were highly respected in their fields of medicine before the pandemic...and 100% of what they were saying turned out to be true!
Wondering why he didn't bring on anyone with a counter narrative??? Will there be a follow-up video with other people? I hope so.
Guess he wanted a ''nuanced conversation." Ha ha!
What counter narrative would that be?
Either our public health officials are incompetent or they are liars; neither promote confidence
Both...and more!
How about they were trying to do what they thought was right, but don’t know how to admit they were wrong because that’s what people whom are embarrassed do.
Should’ve had Dr. Peter McCullough on this conversation
And Dr Ryan Cole, pathologist, with proof from autopsies of 💉damage to organs.
Yes! Someone who has read more of the actual science, rather than the narrative about the science.
He’s clearly a smart guy, but he also has been pushing a narrative. I wish there were doctors that would just discuss the facts.
Yes having Dr McCullough and all the other experts in a debate on here would be so important.
@@tark8516 all these assholes are pushing the big pharma narrative.
I spent a lot of time reading public health announcements in other countries to understand what was going on
Me too. Doctors from India said that most of the people being hospitalized had very low levels of vit. D3. I upped my D3 supplements and was pissed when Dr. F----i never once mentioned anything about it or anything else. He lied about the masks and totally gaslighted Trump whemever he tried to mention any kind of treatments besides getting the vaccine.
Funny how the guidance is nearly identical in every single country.
@@spacetoast7783 even the words and wordplay is often exactly the same across all the languages and nations.
You could clearly see, politics and media globally are in the hands of a few
We all know the "pandemic of the unvaccinated"
"Solidarity"
"Game changer'. So many verbal mechanics who are almost identical as if someone dictated all the governments and media to do so.
Coincidence my ass
So far, for me, Africa, UK and Israel have been the best places for information not scrubbed by the Fauci Gang.
Wouldn't have helped. They were lying everywhere: czcams.com/video/w3MPnBpfrRk/video.html
I have long covid, Extreme fatigue, and heart arrhythmias, among a multitude of other symptoms. I am on disability now. It took over two years to get approved and it annoys me. I am making progress as time goes on, but it is a long journey. I am in Nursing school now. But it is physically challenging. Before I got sick, I was an ultramatharoner, and adventurer and loved to push myself to, and beyond my physical limits. Now, I am out of breath just walking across a parking lot. Being frustrated is a massive understatement. I went to several doctors early on in the pandemic and I heard all kinds of excuses. "Oh, you are just depressed" "You just need to work harder" "you just need to focus on doing other things that make you happy". Then Long covid became known and all my docs were suddenly taking it very seriously. I want to be back to how I used to be. But I have no choice but to take it easy and just wait as time passes as my body very, very, very, slowly recovers. I'm not giving up, at least not just yet. But it's a really crummy situation to be in. If anyone else is in a similar situation, feel free to shoot me a message, and I'll try and give you whatever advice I can.
Hi, this reads like my story after my vaccine injury in May 2021, months of suffering and living on the edge of death until I carried out a detox and finally I could breathe and walk for long without needing to stop for a rest. The past three months pain is no longer a problem. I got no help from the doctors, CZcams been my doctor. And from now on I will avoid telling the GP what I did to get better because they fraun at the personal effort I made to get better saying they never heard of such a treatment like I had gone to get my treatment from a witch doctor. Certainly I wasn't one of those suitable to be saved.
Matthew, would like to chat with you regarding long term covid.
@@jmo4sc hi Mathew, in short I bought Zeolite Clinoptilolite powder particle size 0.32 to 1.036, I hipped a teaspoonful, added it to 200mls of water. I had 3 doses by midnight. I found just after 2 doses my shortness of breath was different, I used to sigh a lot too but that day when I did the detox, the sighs that were usually loaded with stress, suffering and tiredness turned into sighs of relief. Following morning after doing a fourth dose I tested myself by walking to the town centre and although I walked slowly I found that I managed to do this but I had to get back on the bus. I live in the UK, in Bolton. I used to be a hard worker in my human body. My shortness of breath and fatigue resolved I would say after further use of zeolite once a week. I started using Zeolite the last week of June 2022. My Seizures were accompanied by many heart palpitations, my experience of them was like I had both a brain inflammation and a heart inflammation. One kind GP gave me 3 months off sick when I actually asked him for one month, but the stroke doctor brushed things aside saying I had depression, anxiety and severe stress all in one vein over the phone, and after his diagnosis every doctor I saw concluded the same although symptoms were not for depression. To this day I don't believe the MRI they did was negative, because I was having awake seizures even as I waited for the MRI procedure. I had watched a video on CZcams which said black seed oil was used to control seizures in children and I had some which I used for hair and skin, I took 10mls and stopped the noctunal seizures I was having. I was having too much electrocution in my brain and black seed oil switched the electricity off. I discovered the black seed oil months before Zeolite. I can't get over the heart palpitations, the balance issue and tremors and been waiting for a neurology assessment for 1year 3 months. Over the phone the medical team decided I was unfit for work, mostly due to my heart last year in April. You are young and deserve the best and I wish you to get better. Thank you. 🙏😊.
@@jmo4sc I forgot to mention that I researched on different ways to remove spike protein from my body such as pine needle tea, star anis tea. Then I found videos on Zeolite on CZcams and I wished I did Zeolite detox first instead of last and saved myself from suffering and damage to my body. I added Lion's Mane to help grow nerve cells in my brain and this has helped. My fatigue is much reduced as I can cook, walk slowly to town and carry out my activities of daily living without crashing with fatigue and body pain.
Did you get the vax? Remember long haulers came into play when they needed an explanation for all the side effects and sudden deaths. Don’t underestimate common sense and your gut instinct. Unfortunately there are so many suffering with symptoms you listed. Sadly your list is short compared to others and some cases end in death. My heart goes out to you.I pray doctors remember their oath and acknowledge we have a problem, recognize the timeline and where the vax fits into that timeline. If we continue putting pride, politics and no one accepting accountability above human lives this is our reality. Please follow a path of being true to yourself. The truth might go against all your friends and the narrative that’s being forced even if that narrative goes against the science. At some point you need to ask yourself is this the mountain I want to die on? Literally, take care.
Danish guy here... Regarding Denmark, there was a steep decline in ppl taking the shot, after the first two.
Since then, there has been debate, regarding if people where coerced to let their children take the shot. Amongst other, big, problems.
Even during the height of the lockdowns, there where massive demonstrations of people against the management of the whole situation.
If Denmark is their example of things going well, that's not a good sign.
Massive demonstrations? Don't know what you consider "massive demonstrations", but a group of fringe people going on the streets in the few thousands is not a massive demonstration. There were 15,000 demonstrators in support of BLM. There were tens of thousands of protestors in support of measures against climate change.
In any country you'll always be able to find some people who will protest.
Oh, and in March 2022 already some 62% of the population had received their first booster, whereas the US currently has some 65% that has received the initial two-doses.
@@Marco-it2mr I witnessed both myself. Both where massive. i have it on film too.
@@djumalife9379 I'm sure you think demonstrations with perhaps 1-2 thousand people are "massive". But the BLM demonstration in June 2020 already got 5-10 times as many participants!
'just trust us' is a tall order in a country where patients pay 4-5 times more for insulin then in neighbouring Canada (source: Mayo clinic).
The US, being by far the biggest drug market, should have the biggest pricing leverage advantage. But all that money goes elsewhere - as does your trust.
But we keep voting and electing Republicans that block Healthcare reform so. How long to we blame the institutions when we won't help ourselves in the US
@@MrLifter20 ha Dems have only done the bare minimum BOTH parties are turned out.
How does the price of insulin affect the quality of scientific research?
@@sloburnjo Bare minimum, like passing the ACA and making COVID-19 prevention and treatment free.
Are you even reading the words you're typing?
Everyone seems to have forgotten that *in 1976, the swine flu vaccine was terminated in the US after only 56 deaths as "too dangerous".* Have you seen the VAERS total lately (estimated between 1 & 10% reporting - Harvard)?
Yes. My son was vaccine injure from the booster and has auto immune disease diagnosis he did not have prior to the booster. He’s 25, 24 at the time he got the booster, in the hospital 3 times in the 2 weeks following, saw a cardiologist and immunologist. Not one person reported the association. They’re all terrified of being called anti vax. No one will report them, I guess it’s 1-5% that get trotted, tops. Not least VAERs required you to fill out the form including the full address and time the shot was given in 20 mins. If that info is not available the form cannot be submitted. If any information on the form is not accurate you can be charged with fraud. So many people, the elderly, those who are fearful of technology, or are fearful of authorities especially immigrants, are not reporting them. I called the FDA and CDC after my sons adverse event. They told me, a direct quote, ‘there’s no where to report adverse events after the second vaccine or booster because they are safe”. I said I’m calling because my son has been in the hospital - this is an adverse reaction. They said “ there are no studies on adverse events after the booster because they’re safe.” I realized then, Jan 2022, that the entire system was captured by that narrative of safe and effective and that data to the contrary was being deliberately and systematically excluded. The regulators, authorities and medical establishment were completely corrupted on all things Covid, from lockdowns to remdesivir to early treatment and repurposing generic drugs and the unsafe and ineffective new medical products.
VAERS is trash.
How many times do you need to be reminded that VAERS isn't a reliable source for data
"What has been heartbreaking about this, as a seasoned physician, are the emails I get from people that, this has affected their life so badly, they have told me they are going to take their own life," Poland said.
I’m listening to this a second time, its great, the only downside is that each speaker has so much to offer but sharing the time is hard. I’d love to see another video with them again to give them more time
And another word on Denmark ... they paused MODERNA for 30 years and under when they started to see it was being linked to Myocarditis in Oct 2021. They did this in a few places in Scandanavia. USA still promotes it and now to babies as well. This is a problem. Denmark also halted its vaccination program in April 2022. That's why they are trusted. They are not obsessing.
It’s shameful that is being pushed in children and babies. Horrible!!!
you mean 30 days.
Why does this have 31 upvotes? It's literally completely made up. There are zero articles about this on the entire internet.
@@kymskiver8862 No, I don't mean 30 days...i mean for 30 YEAR OLDS and under. This is fact.
google this: Sweden, Denmark pause Moderna COVID-19 vaccine for younger age groups
This summer, Denmark stopped offering Covid vaccines for children between 5 to 17. The reason given was that children were at very low risk of serious outcomes from omicron. The US policy is still to promote these vaccines for children 6 months and older.
unfortunately in the US we KNOW pharma takes advantage of situations to make huge money.
What you mention is one example.
This often eclipses the good which is done and makes people increasingly skeptical. Especially today as information flows.
The Big pharma lobbist in Denmark was too busy having sordid affairs . . .
Plus big pharma were smart enough to negociate legal immunity from any consequences. So yeah why stop?
December 2020 "The UK government has granted pharmaceutical giant Pfizer a legal indemnity protecting it from being sued, enabling its coronavirus vaccine to be rolled out across the country as early as next week."
June 2022 "UK goverment makes first payments to compensate injury or death from vaccines" (at about £120 000 per person, not much help to the deceased)
@@SeeThroughist it’s awful
@@SeeThroughist lol. But it was a global threat we had to stop. People dropping like flies. We had to get a jab to stop it. ….they said….lol
They lost control of the virus that got out. That is their real crime.
Mind blown. As great as this was. With All the doctors…..the most mind blowing statement was made by my dude after the doctors. “Can we regain trust at this point? Is it too late?” Mind blown. That’s so beautifully said and so f’ing scary. How many lies until no matter what you say or do, you are labeled a lier. Can we ever trust establishment again in this country. And I don’t know the answer, but is sure is a scary question.
So sad that the Democrat response to Donald Trumps inability to filter his thoughts was to become totalitarian and lie harder than he does. He's just an idiot. Their responses were intentional. This was political plain and simple. That's how it happened. Faucci was trying to cover his tracks and Politicians were looking toward the 2019 Presidential election. Both decided preying on the fear of the people to secure power was more important than honesty. Now we decide if we punish them for it. Since it was political nobody will be held accountable because they call all the shots these days. Covid proved it
No. Trust will not return
If that was so mind blowing you know nothing about the history of this country.
@@billyshears6622 Calm down there. Exactly when in American history did the Federal Government force the citizenry to inject experimental drugs into their body or they would close your business or fire you from your job. This was mind blowing compared to anything they did in the past. Mind blown Skippy
@@billyshears6622 This is as Rogue as as our Government has ever been by a mile
Thank you SO much Jon for getting this conversation going. It's very much needed!
My faith in doctors, journalists, politicians, health ‘authorities’ & the pharmaceutical industry is -1,000 (minus 1,000) because of the way they have behaved during this pandemic.
the joke today was trust, as in we trust the for-profit health care system puts health above profit ... not. so many times i've been provided diagnosis and treatment equivalent to a google search that turned out 3 months later erroneous. no faith and certainly no trust.
scientific consensus is a constantly evolving thing. Once you understand that, you wont have to rely on noneducated opinions.
Realistically, your "faith" would be -1,000 regardless of how they all behaved.
Many of us knew they were complete liars before the pandemic.
@@naturalsleepcoach42 - Yep. At that time my faith was at zero.
Thanks Jon, I love science. My favourite moto is by Dr. John Campbell out of the U.K., watch him on his You tube channel. "Follow the evidence where ever it leads."
I would rather be able to ask questions and not always get the answer , than given the answer and not allowed to ask questions.
This process has led to so much mistrust, hopefully time will allow many of these questions to be answered.
Campbell doesn’t follow the evidence though. He misrepresents it.
@@enjek5654 would you care to show proof of that statement?
@@enjek5654how does he misrepresent it?
@@patchandy by reading papers and explaining the big words.
@@randygarry3678 Sure. Watch Dr Susan Oliver’s videos or Debunk the Funk that go through them in detail. You can check the claims out for yourself.
I had reservations about getting the vaccine because of the fast availability and living through the thalidomide disaster, a drug that was approved and tested. I am 84 and was give Moderna by the VA and this is the first time I heard that I shouldn't have. I have been in close contact with three different people and haven't gotten sick. As a child I had every illness that was around including Scarlet Fever and doctors didn't expect I would make it to adulthood.
I also had all the childhood so called diseases... Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and flu that was labeled 'the Hong Kong flu, H1N1, and Covid19.... None of these killed me. I was NOT vaxxed for any of this ... I developed "NATURAL IMMUNITY" what a crazy idea right? the creation of FLU virus that can then be supposedly "cured" by taking a shot is nothing more than a money maker for Pharm companies!! We now know that even Penicillin and other antibiotics cause LONG Term damage to the GI flora causing leaky gut and many other issues... WHEN will we STOP giving drug companies so much control over us?
That's great. My parents are older and are vaccinated, and they haven't had any issues, they never get sick really. I don't personally have it, since i'm young and healthy, and didn't feel it was necessary for me. Does the vaccine really prevent you from catching it though? I thought that it just helped your body fight it if you do get it? Basically you're a lot less likely to get really sick and hospitalized from what I understand. Glad you're still healthy and going strong at 84.
Just to make a point that nurses are perceived as against vaccine 'hesitancy' when in fact in the UK, there were hundreds of thousands of nurses against the vaccine who marched against vaccine mandates (NHS 100k) who made the government do a u-turn on mandates, myself included. Many healthcare professionals did not want this experimental drug and this feeling remains very strongly.
"The hard part is getting people to distinguish between malevolence and incompetence." 🙌
It's malevolent to allow incompetence to run amok in a field that peoples' lives depend on.
aren't they pragmatically the same
Incompetence based in obtuseness is malevolent.
Malevolence masquerades as incompetence so as to fool good people into forgiving evil acts as mere "mistakes made with the best of intentions."
let me propose that a person who is incompetent, who has the audacity to act as if they are competent, IS actually malevolence. BOTH TRUTHS CAN EXIST TOGETHER
"Public communications amateur hour" really described it well.
We definitely learned how remedial the population is.
@@Yasmine-mm1yc Who is they and what did they lie about?
Before the pandemic I knew hardly anyone that had a heart attack, a stroke or who had died of a blood clot. Now I'm running out of fingers.
A Belgium goalkeeper dropped dead on the pitch yesterday after saving a penalty, 25 years old.
Blood clots are among some of the long term effects Covid, even in otherwise healthy young adults.
@@dusteylong7511 Yes, vaccinated ones.
Cardiac failure is becoming a common after effect from covid infection. As brain fog, fatigue, high blood pressure are also long term symptoms.
@@OmarHernandez-nq2jo You mean cardiac failure is becoming a common after effect from the covid vaccine.
Catching up on episodes today, I'm three hours in and when the ending discussion about sneezing finished, I sneezed. This was a terrific discussion, should be required listening for the appropriate bureaucrats.
As former military I've been vaccinated for plenty of things, and I'm not an anti-vaxer. But I refused and still refuse to take the covid vaccine. I can articulate the timeline of how my thoughts became hardened on this subject. I am at least moderately scientifically literate and a student of history. At the onset of the vaccine push, it occured to me there had not been enough time for the experts to be as sure as they were. Add in to that the push, the coersion and bribery and social absolutism around all of this really struck me as a big red flag. When the mask mandates cam, the wording was made that if you had a medical reason not to wear one you didn't have to, but in the actual real world if you didn't wear a mask you couldn't go anywhere.
After reading about mRNA technology I noticed there was a suppression of information that contradicted the narrative, which is not how science works. I won't be taking this Gene therapy as I don't think it has been looked at with enough viggor for me to feel like it is worth the risks of taking it. More and more there is enough information finally that I feel like I made the right choice, especially as a 40 year old reasonably healthy man.
Same, I love being called an "anti-vaxxer' simply because I choose to not get a single vaccine, yet take others that have been vetted and tested.
Awesome choice 👌
Good on you for staying strong and true to yourself:)
You used logic ...I couldn't believe Doctors went along with the crazy mask thing ...the particles in corona viruses are tiny compared to what the mesh on even a medical grade mask will filter...it is much like putting a chain length fence up to keep flies out of the yard.I have very high reverence for science I therefore understand that the scientific method requires skepticism and always questioning until there is empirical data proves a fact! Instead people just believed what they were told....it was astonishing to witness!
Where did you hear about it being "gene therapy"? You are unsure about getting vaccinated but seem fully sure it's a "gene therapy".....explain that to me please
there are hundreds of certified and qualified doctors and scientists and biologists that have come out with major concerns with these injections.
But none has published any evidence that stands up to the most basic scrutiny.
Oh, the studies that are not being done, the questions that are NOT being asked! Who will pay for them?
@@drellisf What specific things would you like to be studied that aren’t being and on what basis?
Yes! Science is always a dialogue, testing and challenging truth. Part of the science was being censored, and those speaking we're controversialized. This kept others from speaking out.
@@enjek5654 don't forget to get your 4th 5th and 6th booster.... protect yourself from the unvaxxed..
9:40 "persuadable? Scared to lose your job, etc?
We need public funding for public (uncompromised) science -please!
Here's some nuance for you: comparing C19 vaccines to childhood ones is like comparing apples to sidewalks.
I agree
Funny that the people that will only shop at whole foods for organic food are the biggest supporters of these genetically modified vaccines.
🤦
Just in one ear and out the other, huh?
😂👍
I have been waiting to hear from Dr. Poland after learning of his own experience with a reaction from the vaccine. I had a similar experience & seems like no one wants to acknowledge this can happen. I support vaccines still, but injury did happen to some of us. Yet we are not acknowledged in medicine. I surmise it’s due to politics & money. It’s been a 2 year frustration for me.
Rigo, I hope you see my comments. I had the same experience as you, and I feel frustrated that no one seems to care, and people are frustrated with me for not getting boosted (aka, my whole family). But they do not understand that after having my hearing affected by the Moderna vaccine, I am afraid of a worse response with the booster. I have been living with the effects for two years, almost.
Over all it saves more lives than creates these rare side affects. I would say there is a much larger tendency today for people being Drug sceptical than not. Vaccines we know eradicated life threatening Disease & that is worth the risk. But so many people are leary of taking Mental Health Meds because of all the stigma, distrust of Big Pharma & other common talking points. When in reality mental health drugs make a positive impact for people who suffer from PTSD, Bipolar Disorder & Schizophrenia etc. Often making an unmanageable life manageable even though not all meds work for everyone & some do experience adverse effects, they do more good than not. I also know someone who had a rare but debilitating affect after a Vaccine years ago but still received the Covid Vaccine we without any problems. Though some people are allergic to shell fish, nuts & strawberries they sell them without any warning in every Grocery Store & people can develop an allergy at any time & also outgrow them. Our bodies as individuals are complex & unpredictable but the Science proves that for most people this Drug works for Bipolar Disorder & majority have no long term debilitating side affects from Vaccines
Ditto
I think we can push back against all the gaslighting by continuing to tell these real life stories. If they are censored on line, we can go back to newsletters? If the VAERS data is being ignored, it might be that grassroots efforts can get through to some of our well meaning doctors. They have been cornered into taking mandates from the ministry of health.
There were entirely too many injuries, an unacceptable amount, they should've seen the safety signal and pulled the plug on the thing like they've done in the past (except for high risk groups). Now they've created a whole army of people who are questioning vaccination in general. Great job FDA/CDC, great job.
The stats given here are quite different to Dr John Campbell, he is not beholden to big pharma so I think I will take his word...
I joined the US Army in 1977 to 1997, I can't begin to tell you how many vaccines I took to deploy all over the world... everything now a days is so different!
If our health was not treated as a profit margin, we might trust in the medical and research institutions.
If drug makers and marketers hadn’t been allowed to advertise to the public in the pursuit of more money-not better health outcomes-the American public might trust the scientific methods necessary to advance treatments.
Public heath (like most public good institutions) has been underfunded and undermined for decades.
When a political goal is to show that government is ‘broken’, and that political group goes out of their way to weaken, undermine, sabotage, vilify, and cast doubt and suspicions on the institutions ability to do public good….
Science, health, education, communication, money, labor, infrastructure, nutrition, energy… all areas with investors enjoying profits from the political revolving door.
I keep having to remind myself that there are more of us than there are of the corrupt, evil, greedy them.
🤔
Agreed, you go they find something to treat. You'll have constant appointments and drugs. 5 years ago I was told I had things in my kidneys blatter and lungs. I need to treat the issue. Never went back I'm fine, I'm 67
You do know that there is a world beyond the borders of the US, right? Anyone that doubted their own government's science or medicine could, oh idk, use a computer maybe to see what's going on in the rest of the world? To see what the _global scientific and medical consensus_ might be? I guess that would require more effort than sitting on a couch and watching tv though.
I have not finished listening to the whole thing, but I hope somebody on the panel discussed the current excess death situation and the need for studies into the cause. If this is simply put under the rug we will see more and more people developing stronger and stronger skepticism. Just because it’s not looked into by public health authorities doesn’t mean people don’t know about it.
Jon said it perfectly, humility. It’s what’s needed.
You follow Dr. John Campbell out of the UK? He is on CZcams regularly.
They did mention excess deaths.
I have ms and watched the long covid stories come out with eyes wide open because it sounded super familiar as a viral vector illness. Healthcare is so broken and it needs to be confronted!
Absolutely looking at a bright light can make you sneeze! Adults too! It doesn't work for everyone, but it's pretty common.
As someone whose life was drastically changed by similar illnesses to long COVID (POTS, ME/CFS, MCAS, & more). I completely agree that we need to rethink how our medical industries deal with these chronic illnesses. We get left behind and forgotten so often and we're just left to suffer. I went from a super active, very involved, human/father/husband/friend/community member, to someone who spends 98% of my day in bed and is in agony most of the time. This was a great discussion as always.
Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, I know that path all too well. Some days you wish you hadn't had such a rich life, so that the loss wouldn't be as all-encompassing. I hope there is some relief in your future.
@@bjdefilippo447 ...Hbomberguys Vaccine-Video is quite famous.
@@nenmaster5218 why would you recommend a Hbomberguy video to someone? Are you trying to be cruel?
the industry is driven by $ and that patient is their primary concern, until it dies hc will be at best a nice fantasy more like a church mildly effective at reducing anxiety
@@nenmaster5218 what's it about?
I had post viral fatigue & infection after Typhoid Fever - it took me over 2yrs to get over that! Brutal! I will do anything I can to never go through that again! Anything!
After a respiratory infection, my asthma was badly screwed up for about 5 years. Even more years later, my breathing is still not back to where it had been. Covid is definitely something to avoid. I was vaccinated as soon as I was eligible.
It was so bad, that I had to resign a non-strenuous parttime job in a store because I was physically incapable of doing it. Fortunately, I had already been planning to quit since I no longer needed a second job.
@@user-dg9pu4pe9d I'm seven months into my bout with long covid. I'm slowly getting better, but it's definitely something to avoid. Do I wish the vaccines I received prevented it entirely? Absolutely! If I were in the same position again, would I still get vaccinated? Also, absolutely! I shudder to think at how much worse it could have been if I weren't vaccinated.
If you keep on working at this pace, you'll eventually find the truth in a few more years. Go for it, it's been only 3 years since this distopia started.
Fear of the wolf helps the Sheppard slaughter the lamb. Good luck Jon.
The health message was that every vulnerable person was at risk of dying from covid if they weren't vaccinated... But almost a joke by the same health authorities was them saying no need for any monitoring or treatment of vulnerable people when infected, in fact any right to early treatment is banned, only when a person's oxygen level drops catastrophically, or they can't breathe.. then send them to hospital and only allow this drug or that drug be given them and if a doctor uses any other treatment they'll be fired..
"The health message was that every vulnerable person was at risk of dying from covid if they weren't vaccinated"
That's a gross overinterpretation of what the health message was.
"any right to early treatment is banned"
That's a gross misinterpretation of the facts.
@@Marco-it2mr Really... well what was the early treatment recommended for elderly or other vulnerable people?
Why were doctors and patients right to choice of treatment denied?
Why were those unvaccinated discriminated against.. to the point of losing their jobs in many cases.
@@shooster5884 "well what was the early treatment recommended for elderly or other vulnerable people?"
The same as with any infectious disease: acetaminophen, lots of water, rest, in case of secondary bacterial infection antibiotics, etc.
"Why were doctors and patients right to choice of treatment denied?"
Because a) there was little to no evidence they worked at all AND they were known to have serious side effects if not properly monitored, and b) it took a limited supply away from those patients with other diseases where it was known it DID work.
"Why were those unvaccinated discriminated against.. to the point of losing their jobs in many cases."
This is unrelated to what I commented on - why are you trying to move the goalposts?
@@Marco-it2mr There is so much information on what worked for early treatment, reducing viral load before you got infected, many doctors in many countries who documented hundreds of their patients outcomes with different variants and what they learned and shared that information online. It took me months to look at all the studies, doctors reports, trials and other information to work out the best things to do to minimize my risk, and to minimize the effects if infected. So you can do your own searches and decide for yourself what you choose to do.
@@shooster5884 There is a whole load of really bad information about supposed early treatments. Decades of experience in this field has allowed me to relatively quickly separate the good from the reasonable from the bad all the way down to the likely fraudulent. I doubt you have that same experience.
I would like you all to join us in welcoming Jon to the spring of 2021. Welcome Jon!
No welcome for corporate shills. They are con men. Maybe you can get a clue about your logic from this post.
Now... 4 booster shots in... is the right time for Jon to start asking questions 😆😂🤣
🐑💉💉💉💉?!
Jon is so stunning and brave. He deserves a 1000 foot tall monument in his honor for being the brave crusader that he is.
@@williambarry8015 You have a man crush is all. Try using your brain instead of idolizing empty vessels.
@@williambarry8015 yes, and unironically
What about excess deaths?
When will the excess deaths occurring around the world be acknowledged and investigated?
Absolutely nobody who refused the vaccine has any regrets.
The dead can't say " regret".
@@elizabethharalson7903 can be said of the victims of the V also.
@@elizabethharalson7903 Been through the whole pandemic like the rest of us. Not a single person I knew died from getting infected.
But those of us who had it, and didn't take the Fauci-ouchi, don't get it over and over again.
We also don't have sudden death issues.
Unvaxxed myself and zero regret
All the lies we were told that are now coming to light. Like when they asked the Pfizer rep if they tested it to stop the spread and she said no, meanwhile everyone was saying it stopped or slowed the spread and that’s why we needed mandates. Where is Peter McCullough or Dr Ryan Cole, these are just repeat corporate nonsense docs that don’t talk about new studies showing the spike protein being found in all parts of the body, it does not stay in the deltoid muscle like we were told
Except the dead ones. Well some of the dead ones.
I would like to see more scientific debate. There are many studies on myocarditis and when someone is quoting a statistic, you don't know which study they are referencing. I've heard quite a few, but those people aren't in the same room and holding each other accountable and it's really hard to keep track of it all.
I've thought a lot lately that we need a "court of ideas". Debates are a poor attempt at this. We need an idea on trial, with advocates for both sides, a judge to keep order and a jury to decide the outcome.
@@gavinmetzler858 you need a brain of your own someone else owns it!
Medical emergency act patriot act enjoy!
@@gavinmetzler858 we need to be careful with something like this, though. There needs to be representation of scientific consensus and an arbiter of disinformation. This type of setup can lead people to think the consensus is 50/50, when it is a loser to 97/3.
These people are focusing on easy questions and dodging the more important questions: what is the risk-benefit analysis right now for each demographic based on recent strains? Why is there no published study of Pfizer's omicron booster? Why was Oxford's ivermectin study not completed after such a long time?
I have severe hearing loss in one ear and tinnitus in same ear since I got the booster mandated to me for my job as an RN. I’ve lost trust in big pharma, the CDC even doctors who I always trusted who are ignoring the adverse effects too many people are having. I’m a cardiac RN and see more myocarditis and pericarditis than I have in all 17 years I’ve been an RN. We need a global pause and more research!!!
@@tracesprite6078 obtuse means for a predatory end. Do better. 😊
One thing that bugs me is that a bunch of the information _was_ communicated. E.g. The status of masks was very clearly laid out, in laymans language, in the guidance material the WHO, CDC etc were putting out, but it wasnt reported upon as if thats the case.
Ive seen a half dozen of these discussions now and not a single one has pointed out that much of the medical institutions information, regardless of whether they are getting things right or wrong (and dont get me wrong, I think some of the CDC decisions were very questionable and not based on the bulk of evidence at the time even according to their own citations.) never got to the public because of the absolutely atrocious state of modern journalism.
One scientist on a medical panel slipped up with some ambiguous facts and I saw video after video of people lecturing how all these scientists need to get better at PR and learn how to avoid the press making hay out of this. Not one video of anyone saying 'It would have taken 5 minutes of research or a follow up question to clarify this issue. So why did so many journalists fail to do that?' It seems to me that its just become the default assumption that all our news media is a pack of manipulative lies that everyone just has to interpret and work around. (and then many in the field will act shocked and chagrined when they find trust in mainstream news across the political spectrum has dropped through the floor.)
When Jon talks about how the scientists were talking in certainties hes not actually responding to scientists, Ive read the advisories and summaries, they almost universally talk about this with nuance. (Even that CDC decision I vehemently disagreed with laid out the for and against, all well cited and clearly laid out.) No, hes responding to how the news media presented what was being said, and what gets more clicks? 'Latest update to mask advice released by the CDC' or 'CDC flip flopping on masks! Were we lied to?'...
Its an absurd problem, and as long as the media operates as it does, solving it is utterly intractable. The very nature of science is that it changes with new evidence, if that change is always going to end up as a critical headline we are doomed to ignorance.
I think there are doubtless many ways the institutions could have done a much better job, the experts speaking in this video are no doubt identifying some of these accurately, but I honestly think its made exceptionally difficult to see the full extent of the problem when the public is viewing all the information through this hopelessly distorted lens of profiteering hacks.
Nail on the head! None of them respond to the actual scientists. I am thinking to myself that I was aware of the very things that they were saying werent communicated. The real problem is that no one was equipped to deal with the old and new media who relentlessly distorted the messages all in the name of profit.
Good analysis. Thanks
"Its an absurd problem, and as long as the media operates as it does, solving it is utterly intractable. The very nature of science is that it changes with new evidence, if that change is always going to end up as a critical headline we are doomed to ignorance."
That is an excellent and true summation. Our clickbait sensationalist media does not lend itself to good science communication and science writing has long been an area that's pretty shoddy.
Look, just because the media profits off engagement, even negative, does not mean they make the mundane controversial just for pro……. Now that you mention it, it does make sense.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 As a communications professional, I’ve kept thinking the same thing.
John Stewart ALWAYS rises the quality of conversation by several levels. This kind of discussion is what this country needs.
What this country needs is to return to a time when lying newscasters were held accountable.
No
Hopefully he'll do one on treating the virus with ivermectin. It has saved so many lives in the 3rd world since the pandemic. It's been successful as a preventative, and a treatment.
@@oc2108 Stock in ivermectin?
@@sands7779Negative. It's extremely cheap to produce anyway. That's why it was suppressed.
Any one comes near me with that offensive weapon! And I will defend myself appropriately
I sneeze when I first look at the sun, too.
as someone who was injured by vaccines as a child; it is very frustrating when people claim "vaccines are safe". It feels like gaslighting to those of us who have been harmed by these products.
Yes. I have also had some injuries from vaccines. I know they are extremely rare, but extremely rare is not the same as non-existent, and pretending it is becomes gaslighting for the few that are experiencing it. Also, pretending that the risks are identical for everyone and that it's okay to pass laws forcing people to get the vaccine even if they have a medical history of being injured by vaccines or have a religious objection to getting them really bothers me. If the death rate for Covid was 30% and vaccines were only 50% effective and few other things there might be a scenario where it makes sense, but at the real numbers I personally believe every person who has a history of injuries should be allowed to make a thoughtful decision in discussion with their doctor and other people they trust like family members without having to worry about being gaslighted, losing their jobs, being shamed, etc. And when they do get injured, telling them essentially, "The vaccines are safe. It's impossible to be injured by them. Stop being a drama queen. You are either making it up, or you have something that was caused by a pre-existing condition that had nothing to do with the vaccine. Stop pretending the vaccine could have contributed in any way."
I would only add, the question must be ass what is considered safe? Is the expectation that 0% of the time nothing bad should ever happen with anything? Unfortunately, if that is the metric, nothing in life is safe. You’re not safe if you do get the vaccine, you’re not safe if you don’t get the vaccine. That would be my only response when people say whether or not something is safe and works
The real question is : what is safer? In most of the cases it's being vaccinated.
But I can feel sorry for you being injured by a vaccine though, it's sad. We lacked a lot of nuance last 2 years.
@@gabrielk2295 What you just said about nuance is absolutely critical. It is entirely possible for one decision to be safer for 99% of the population, but for a different decision to be the safer decision for 1% of the population, and that’s why it is absolutely critical for each person to be allowed to run the numbers for themselves and make the decision for themselves without being shamed or gaslighted. The odds of dying from Covid are looking like they are roughly 6 in 100,000 on average. The odds of dying of complications are roughly 3 in 100,000 for the vaccine, (can you tell I’ve been running the numbers?) However, those odds vary drastically depending on factors like age, sex, and which vaccine you get. The odds of dying from Covid if you are over 80 are roughly 16%, and if you are a woman over 80 your odds of dying from complications from the vaccine are actually significantly less than 3 in 100,000. Women are more likely to get complications with J&J. Men are most likely to get them from Moderna, followed closely by Pfizer. Men in their 30’s or near their 30’s seem to have the highest risk.
On top of these odds, you also have to include factors like what are your odds of being exposed to Covid. Personally, I think they are about 100%, but let’s pretend they are only 67%. Then you would multiply the 6 in 100,000 deaths from Covid by that 67% to get 4. Plus, you also have to consider how much protection the vaccine gives you. If it is 90% effective that is different math than 100%. If you have a long history of bad reactions to vaccines, you have to consider that risk. Personally, I lose the ability to use my arm for 48 hours, so I have to weigh the risk of dying in a car accident because I’m driving home from the hospital appointment with only one functioning arm. These things may all sound small, but they really add up. Of course, you also have to weigh the risk of not just death, but also long-haulers and vaccine injuries and unknown factors both for long-term impacts of the vaccine and long-term impacts of Covid. We can make educated guesses about those risks, but until time has passed for us to actually test we cannot possibly know either of those for sure.
The bottom line is I believe if you are over 80, especially if you are a woman, getting vaccinated purely from a risk standpoint is a no-brainer. Of course, if you have religious objections that’s a completely different discussion that we won’t pull in. However, if you are a 30-year-old man with a weak heart and a history of severe reactions to multiple vaccines, and you already had Covid for the variant the current/vaccine booster is designed to target because you got it before the vaccine/booster was available, so you should already have equivalent natural immunity to the same strain(s), and you are single and would have to drive yourself home from the doctor’s appointment with only one hand, and you are otherwise healthy/not at risk, I personally would estimate the math says it makes zero sense for you to get vaccinated.
@@robertpadillosandiego2821 If people were using the word safe the way you just used it for this particular vaccine I think there would have been 75% less resistance to the vaccine. In the past, that is also exactly how the term safe has been used to describe these kinds of treatments. Maybe your experience was different, but when I told people in my world that roughly 3 in 100,000 people experienced adverse reactions to the vaccine I was called a conspiracy theorist because we know the vaccines are perfectly safe, and I was told there wasn't a single documented case in the past 2 years of anyone having even a minor adverse reaction to it.
EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH...
Dr Been's recent video discussing the US' failure in supporting the vaxx injured. It is truly heartbreaking.
Link: czcams.com/users/liveihHJ-dVNXWY?feature=share
...if you can't see the link, the vid's called
Jan 11th, 2023 - FDA Did Not Share Booster Data, 400% Price Increase, Michelle Zimmerman, and More News
Channel: Drbeen Medical Lectures
VICP and CICP both exist. The support is out there.
@@spacetoast7783 How many covid vaccine injury claims have been processed? Have any paid out?
@@LP-dc7fh 7282 people were paid between 2006 and 2021, the vast majority from influenza vcc.
Did you really need me to look that up for you? You're so lazy.
All this boils down to the coersion, and lack of informed consent with these shots. People are not being convinced by force. People are not confused, they are making risk benefit analysis for them self.
"they are making risk benefit analysis for them self." No. Herd immunity, look it up.
I go out in the morning, look up at the sun, and with a solitude-shattering sneeze am once again reaffirmed.
The comment, with the name, makes me giggle.
When the doctor read the statistics he didn't specify if that was the aggregate risk/reward for all ages or specifically for those 16-18 males. That makes a big difference whether it's just a good decision for the population at large or for the individual 16-18 year old.
I was wondering the same thing. Was he saying that if we give one million doses to 16-17 year olds or if we give one million doses to the general population. Big difference. And this is exactly why public health officials aren't trusted. Everything that is being said is technically correct, but it doesn't answer the specific questions that are being asked...and these public health officials know the difference.
Do you think most of the population is 16-18 years old? Why are you so interested in that tiny age range? Should the doctors have presented every three year range in this video?
@@spacetoast7783Different demographics react differently to the same treatments and medications. A five year old boy is different than a fifty year old woman, therefore they will likely require different treatments and plans.
@@spacetoast7783There's a different risk from both the shot and the virus to different sub-populations. If you're over 65 the virus is much more dangerous to you than the shot. As age and infirmity go down the risk of the shot goes up and the risk of the virus goes down. It's not clear where the risk/reward flips, but young men are at the highest risk of heart complications from the shot. I want everybody to be able to make an informed individual decision about their health.
@@spacetoast7783 No, they can't present every age range, but there's been a pattern of obfuscating data when it suggests that there's a verifiable risk of the shot for certain populations. I'm more skeptical today than I was two years ago because health officials haven't been upfront. This conversation was a good start, but it also shows a lot of us are still skeptical.
The controversy was exhibited once there was such a push for everyone including the ones with natural immunity to take the jab
It would only improve your protection. You don't know what type of protection you're getting from infection. It could be really good or really bad. 40% of people who get infected don't develop any antibodies at all! So it's unreliable to rely on infection only.
This was one of the most frustrating aspects throughout the pandemic. Natural immunity was completely ignored and if anyone ever gave a response about it, it was always.. “well we don’t know how well natural immunity offers protection”. Then why weren’t there large scale studies on the protection of natural immunity from the beginning?
And the fact they'd lose their jobs or scholarships...
Finally a nuanced conversation about vaccines! Thanks for this, these are the style of conversations we need to be having these days! So sick of tribalism, shaming, and conspiracy theories.
Best (meaning "having the potential to be beneficial") discussion I've yet heard on this complex issue.
I didn't get the COVID vaccine at first because I had questions, I'm middle aged and healthy, and I work from home. I completely supported all family members in getting the vaccine. I don't think I heard a single satisfactory answer about the mRNA vaccines (and I went hunting, listened to many many experts that supported it, were on the fence on it, and were against it), so I never got a shot. The more time has passed the happier I am with my decision, and it really makes me happy to hear this discussion.
Kudos to Jon and all the professionals. I don't agree with some of what was said, but I enjoy listening to people courageously talk about these subjects that are so under threat of censorship.
“Safe and effective” was always an ad slogan, never a scientific conclusion. I knew the “experts” were willing to lie to me when they said “safe,” so I stopped trusting them. The more time goes on, the more it becomes clear that the vaxxd are fucked.
You praise them for being courteous. Have you noticed that they all agree on vaccines? Do you think they would ever invite any of the doctors who are opposed to the covid vaccine?
@Trainer 007 Even suggesting that empathy is the answer and that it's OK to have questions, while scathing the institutions for obliterating public trust in them, is enough in my book. They can all agree that vaccines are the answer here, but it's important that people who believe that acknowledge that the institutions did us dirty with their messaging, and that most people have honest questions that deserve honest responses.
Like I said in my comment, I don't agree with everything that was said. One doc spouted numbers without citing a source, so I have no reason to believe them (these days i only really trust numbers from a review of research, it's been demonstrated how easy it is to sully the pool of data to spin a story). Still, it was a good, healthy conversation, and more of these need to exist.
Congrats pure blood. Btw, Jon is incredibly late to the party, he's no hero, he's way too late and the damage has already been done.
@A Person They weren't.
Jon please do more on this. For the next one I recommend inviting Dr. Vinay Prasad MD MPH, who is a professor at UCSF.
An ivermectin convo would be excellent as well. The anti-viral saved so many in countries with limited access to mRNA gene therapies.
Yes, Dr. Prasad is great as is his colleague, Dr. Damania.
@@oc2108 what also saved people in countries with limited access to experimental batches of rushed untested chemicals were the very limited access to experimental batches of rushed untested chemicals
@@wasdwasdedsf Do you think I would speak positively about ivermectin without knowing these experimental gene therapies were not the greatest crime ever committed against the human race?
I completely agree but why stop there next time include and invite Dr Peter McCullough, Dr Robert Malone and Dr Jay Bhattacharya who are much more important leading medical guest speakers who expertise and knowledge is more necessary than ever. And talk much more in-depth as why Most countries health care didn't use and administrated more available and effective therapeutics and medications such as ivermectin, And other such available drugs instead of only opting and forcing a vaccine is not approach
Trust takes years to build and moments to break, the only brightside of the pandemic is it forced me to build the best health insurance policy on earth by eating right, exercising and getting some sun. I will never neglect my physical health again.
99,5 % survival rate
We needed this conversation 2 years ago.
We were all stressed out 2 years ago. It makes sense to have this conversation when we're getting back to normal.
@@k.h.6991 there were many of us trying to ask these very questions 2 years ago but we were demonized. I just don't understand why the left went from never trusting the pharmaceutical companies to acting like they actually cared about us.
Yes, except that it would not have been the same conversation.
People make the worse decisions when they’re made to feel afraid. That’s what the media did. Spread fear.
Did they ever say where this Virus came from?
Ok so a nuanced conversation is with 3 doctors who seem to all agree that getting boosters is still a good thing even with natural immunity which is provably better and a much lighter variant. Not that nuanced is it? as I know some very well respected doctors who would disagree with them and that would be a conversation that I would like to see.
Agreed. I respect Jon for this tame attempt, but this conversation is far too circumscribed.
I defy you to present any proof that natural immunity is better than a vaccine.
Yes
Yes they are still spreading the wrong narrative. How about the truth - simply put - the jab is NOT SAFE!!!!
There is no natural immunity to a virus that continues to morph itself to dodge immunities. Otherwise we wouldn't need yearly flu updates either.
Jon, have Steve Kirsch on for a debate.
Imagine that there was actually this type of program on TV. They MUST have enough time to get into issues. Currently there is probably a few minutes between commercials.
well it is easy enough for folks to presumably turn OFF their TV and watch these shows on the Internet.. BUT the New York Times article once again scared folks away from THE INTERNET as you might get "radicalized"... sigh
Interesting how Dr. Polland stayed quiet during the conflict of interest discussion.
Weasels. They continue to 'cover up' this crime with their bullshit.
Why
To be fair Dr. Poland probably lives in a rarified atmosphere where everything he does on some level may look like a conflict of interest, without necessarily being an intentional gaming of the system. That doesn't mean he doesn't have actual conflicts of interest or isn't involved in intentional gaming of the system.
He actually told the truth that lot of people miss about the Covid 19 vaccine, i.e. it is a completely new approach and technology for both what vaccines do and the actual manufacturing of vaccines, which may explain why there appears to be so much vaccine injury. Facts are early adopters of new technology are often the guinea pigs for improvement of that technology.
@@chucklindenberg1093 there are a ton of alarming things...one the guy who invented alot of this technology is saying its dangerous
@@josephdonovan7886 *one the guy who invented alot of this technology is saying its dangerous*
Possibly it is dangerous, but there are awful lot of dangerous things in this world that you use on a daily basis, the difference is you somewhat understand the risks involved.
The problem with the CDC's approach to Covid 19 vax is 1st the mandate, 2nd the failure of the CDC to be honest about the general efficacy of Covid 19 vax(doesn't prevent transmission or catching Covid 19 hence extra boosters) and then finally failure of CDC to be honest about the risk of Covid 19 generally.