Mormon Stake Counselor Confronts General Authorities - Evan & Weston Smith Pt. 3 | Ep. 1668
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- In Part 3 of 3 Evan describes getting called as a Stake Counselor, his attempts to be an ally for LGBTQ individuals and his subsequent faith crisis. Evan has a few debates/confrontations with Area Seventy Elder McCune (higher than Stake Presidency in Mormon leadership) over his son. Evan emails Apostles and other leaders on how the Church can change to be more loving and accepting of LGBTQ members resulting in a meeting with General Authority Allen D. Haynie. Evan continues faith deconstruction when his wife begins her faith crisis and they both come to see the issues with sexism in the Church, with biblical scholarship opening up new issues and the family’s ultimate decision to leave the Church.
Gay LDS Crossroads: www.gayldscros...
This Body of Water: Surviving Mormonism as a Queer Man: www.amazon.com...
Chapters:
00:05:40 Evan’s call to the Stake Presidency and serving as a progressive leader w/gay son
00:26:45 Realizing the Church is not a safe place for LGBT causes faith crisis
00:50:45 Telling his Stake President he had doubts
00:56:10 Meeting with General Authority Elder John Mccune during Stake Presidency reorganization, getting passed over as Stake President
01:00:00 Debating Elder John McCune
01:15:30 Cheryl finds out Elder McCune has been debating Evan about their gay son Weston
01:18:00 2nd meeting with Elder McCune, McCune apologizes
01:26:35 Evan emails Elder Henry B. Eyring and others about how the church can change
01:29:00 Meeting with GA Elder Allen D. Haynie about LGBT manuscript
01:38:00 How change happens in the Church
01:47:25 More discussion with Elder Haynie about LGBTQ issues
02:02:00 Sealings and the discrimination of women in the temple
02:13:00 Being a progressive Mormon and learning about Biblical Scholarship
02:20:35 The choice to resign the family’s membership
02:26:00 Leaving the Church and feeling liberated
Episode Show Notes:
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I am a 75 year old gay man who had been a good member of the church from 8yrs old to2014 may when I canceled my membership. I served a 2&1/2 yr mission to Korea and 2 marriages to 2 lovely women have 3grown children I love dearly but I AM GAY, & NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT. This is a very special ❤episode thanks 😊so much, but will not ever be a member again!!!......
I deeply appreciate Weston’s recognition of his mother’s burden and poor treatment within this system. I think it was so important that he kept recognizing the oppression of women within the church. You can tell he sees his mother’s burden and he didn’t want it to go unsaid. Thank you for noticing and saying something, Weston.
He is a wonderful gift…..be proud mama. He sure loves you and respects you!
Gerardo is awesome, he’s a man of so few words and when he does chime in it’s always gold.
Gerardo is AMAZING!! Love his perspective so much!! Thank you, Gerardo!
I appreciate and LOVE Gerardo!!!
💯 I love listening to what he has to say.
A man of few words is a rare and cherished person during 7 hour interviews ❤
When Wes said the church needs to apologize to his mom for the neglect, wanted to cry! I’ve never heard my feelings verbalized and to come from a young man. As the mother of 6 children, one severely disabled, I was a single mother at church! My husband also served in leadership
The cult would never use the word apologize only regret as if they're not part of the corporation.
I remember, my ex. Being called to be a executive secretary, right after having twins! No asking me if I was up to it! ( One was born vaginally the other, C-section!) I was amazed at their lack of sensitivity!
God loves His children ,but many ha be not known
Isn't that to reinforce that getting babies makes you somehow better then other people. So it makes sense for the church to call newly dads.
I just cry when I think of my friends that raised 6 kids and never had dad home - except maybe on Monday nights, for the entirety of the raising of said kids.
but let’s be real- LDS male leadership is expected to be rich or a serious mover.
There are no barber or gravedigger leaders. All through inspiration of course.🙄
No one can ever make me believe that kids aren’t born this way. I have a daughter that is 19. She never had sexual relations of any kind, she was having suicidal ideation. I didn’t have any idea what was wrong. She was so worried about disappointing me, her father, and extended family. When I found out why and what was going on in her mind it crushed me. She is one of the most amazing young ladies, she’s super smart, would give you the shirt off her back, kind beyond words, and so much more. I always noticed since she was born it was like she had a old soul. She’s worry as a very small child like a grown up. She grew up a very average childhood with 2 parents and a sister that loved her very much. I know there’s no way that she would have chosen to make her life harder just to do it. Once I found out, I told her no I’d be there as a warrior for her and to love her until the day I die. Thankfully, every family member is fine with her because they know her, they know how amazing of a young girl she is, until you raise a kid and know everything about them you cannot and more than likely will not ever understand. I think it’s ridiculous to ask these kids to go against what they feel, like this father said. Try to force yourself to like or want to fall in love with the same sex when you aren’t born this way. It’s impossible!! My husband has gay people in his family that my girls had never met and neither of our girls have ever been around and gay people. I just know she didn’t purposely chose to have a harder life. I do feel like kids lives are hard enough they shouldn’t have to think about all the hate, especially from god or the church. I asked my daughter how long she had felt that way and she said ever since she can remember. She tried to talk with a boy and was repulsed😰 she’s lucky to have an entire family that loves her❤️😍🥰🥳😘😍💕
I love that Evan chose to love his son more than the church. 💕 What a beautiful family - thank you for sharing your story.
He’s just an example for a lot of families . I wanna be a man like him , have a family and my kids raised like he did . Nothing and no one is perfect but he’s awesome.
Funny story! The bank employee who notarized my resignation was named Nephi. 🤣
I have a cousin that came out during prop 8 in California. My uncle, his dad, received a letter from the church instructing him to donate money to overturn prop 8. I saw the letter, so, please don't tell that they didn't do that. My uncle told the stake president that he would not be donating money to a proposition that would harm his son! The stake president then called my uncle in to "have" a conversation. They told my uncle that unless he did, they would disfellowship him. He said go ahead - do what you must. In the end they didn't, but my uncle and aunt stopped going to church! Fun fact, you are REQUIRED to pay tithing (10% of your monthly income) in order to go through the temple! You have to go through the temple in order to enter the Celestial Kingdom. So, you have to pay in order to go to heaven???? Jesus had something to say about that - if you remember!!!
I'm so touched by the moments in Part 2 when the dad is so clearly proud of his son (the look on his face) and in Part3 when Wes is clearly so proud of his dad. What an inspiration. This is love.
Thank you for sharing that. I am VERY proud of Wes. He has taught be SO much. ❤
@@evansmith2171 Watching this whole series a second time, I'm even more compelled by your story, realizing the powerful contributions you've made by applying your analytical/legal training to this problem. You pave a possible tangible path for leadership, a foreseeable future. What a gift this Mormon Story has been, both emotionally and ecumenically.
@@getjuliet - Thank you so much!
Yep! When my first husband died, they said I couldn’t seal to anyone else. But I knew I would get re-married and have kids. I was only 29.
I have since left that church. I refuse to say “the” church, it’s not “the” church.
GREAT episode. THANK YOU! I do not think anyone without a LBGTQ child (or who is LBGTQ) can appreciate the pain and incredible BS the church puts you through. Not me- but I saw my son go thru horrible things. I really resent the church- and I have nothing but absolute respect and admiration for the way that those who are LGTBQ handled themselves and were standup and honorable. The church is the one who acted totally UN- CHRIST- LIKE and inappropriate.
This has been the best 3 episode I have heard on Mormon Stories. I wish I had all this information when my daughter came out and we were still church goers. Now I feel like I can better my relationship with my daughter and her wife.
@Rodney Mehring - Thank you. That means so much to hear. ❤
Love that you use a variety of co-hosts & seem to always pick the cohost best for each episode. Gerardo is awesome & his contributions added a lot to all 3 parts.
Phenomenal multi-part story … this one is at the top of my list of favorites … which keeps growing.
Incredible series. All of this. It’s healing my soul
Wow. I loved this episode so much! Our family of 6 left last year and we are happier than ever! It is validating to hear your story. Thank you so much!❤
Another family of six here who left in the 2020-2021 time frame! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
What a great father and son. Really enjoyed watching them support and lift each other up, even while admitting mistakes. A great example of being a loving parent who adapts when they learn new information.
Thanks!
you’re absolutely right. I want to be a man like Evan ❤
I’m so glad that I deconstructed my belief in the church for many reasons, one being that it has helped me see what a gift LGBTQ people are to this world. I honestly think they are making this world a more loving place. ❤️
How so? What are LGBTQ people doing that good people aren't?
I absolutely love this video. It was very informative and riveting. It usually takes me a couple of days to make it through an entire Mormon story podcast, but I was able to finish this one in a very timely manner. Thanks for posting.
Evan and Weston have taken the higher road for sure. Evan's comment was so right about how his Mormonism will always be a part of who he is even in moving on. And even in this very raw state there was not a hint of bitterness, not looking at the years lost but the years gained--seeing a much brighter future-- by making this about face. Good experience and well-told.
Wow! Evan and Weston Smith's stories are now my favorite interviews on this channel. Thank you so much for your honesty and vulnerability and willingness to share your experiences.
Thank you!
My higher power calls me to love everyone, show grace, and not judge. I left a crazy church years ago and came to the realization that grace and love shown is all that there should be. I don't pass judgment on anyone, bc I don't know what they have went through, just show grace and compassion for everyone. Thanks for speaking out, these type of podcasts are my favorite! I don't know where some people have gotten that they have the right or authority to pass judgment, that's not our calling or right. To love everyone and respect them is. Being born a certain way, is simply the way God made them and that is NEVER wrong!
So God made murderers was he wrong? I mean I totally agree love everyone but if you make that consistent it doesn’t sound right
@@brentheltonj6308 You still do not get it. Homosexuality is not a choice. "Turning it off" only works in Broadcast musicals, but not in real life. Therefore, your analogy is faulty. No one is born a murderer. And apart from a few murderers with mental health issues, I suppose most murderers could have chosen not to murder.
I have been listening to Mormon Stories for a couple of years now. Many, many great episodes. Some episodes not so great. This has been intelligent, sincere, honest, not trivial nit-picking, even entertaining. This is definitely one of my favorite all time. Well done. Thank you to all that made this episode possible.
@Jim M - Thank you!
My first wife cheated on me. We divorced. I got remarried, and requested a sealing cancelation which was denied, and the church granted me a sealing clearance. So I am still sealed to my first wife. I am always told the Lord will work it out in the hereafter. So why can't the church just Seal LGBTQ couples, with the same trust that the Lord will work it out in the hereafter? If he can work out my sealing to someone I wouldn't want to spend eternity with, how come he cannot work out LGBTQ families sealed together?
With Jesus having to “work out” so many errors made in this life, you almost wonder why even bother doing all these ordinances in the first place. Just wait until the millennium or something and do everything correctly. How many tens of millions of dead people do you imagine have been fruitlessly baptized in the temples even though they will never accept the gospel?
This is one of the best Mormon Stories ever. Thank you Evan and Weston for your willingness to do this. Evan is an amazing man to choose his family over the church, and Weston is incredibly brave for being himself in a religion that teaches otherwise. It’s interesting that sometimes it takes something that affects you personally before you begin to seriously question what you have been taught your whole life. Religion is fascinating in that it creates such a narrow view of reality. It’s such a divisive thing in our society because all high demand religions know that they are right. Lots of love to Evan, Weston and their family. I will definitely be buying Weston’s book. Thanks guys!
Thanks! Really appreciate the kind words and support. Means a lot.
Thank you Wes and dad for sharing your stories! You are literally saving lives. Sending healing and happy vibes to your wife Cheryl❤️
Isn’t it interesting how the “one true gospel” (the lds church) ends up turning so many away from Chriatianithy altogether?
I've got some sources to send to my parents. Thank you for this powerful episode ❤️
This was a fantastic 3 part series.
These trilogy was phenomenal, every moment. It is one of my new all-time favorites. I was very moved listening to the four of you talk about women's issues within the Church with such energy and empathy. Bravo, sirs, and thank you 👏👏👏👏👏
This is my favorite. Left the negative and kept the positive. ❤️ nobody escapes this life without trama.
I really wanna continue watching, but it's 2:30 am! 😂 Thanks so much for this episode. I am a young adult newly out of the church who is also trying to realize my potential bisexuality and navigate new worldviews but I haven't been able to verbalize much of my thoughts due to my own father being a bishop. Evan and Wes, your integrity is something that is truly remarkable. I am really moved by the depth of honesty and love that's so evident in your hearts, I aspire to live my life with as much truthfulness and compassion. It's really healing to hear the stories of others committed to a sense of integrity walk away from the church, it helps me feel validated. I would love to read your book, Evan! Thank you again for your amazing example and the folks at Mormon Stories for introducing me to a world of thoughtful and genuine people just trying to heal from the church.
Welcome @Abby K!
One of the best series you folks have had. So glad Wes stated he feels so free by exercizing his agency!! I fell the same way! Thanks so much.
If the church just stopped thinking it could punish members. I never gave the church authority over me.
It’s taken me several days to finish all the parts of this interview and it’s just so awesome. Evan and Wes seem like such great, genuine people who care vastly about others and I’m so glad that you got to interview them!
I never gave it any thought about cutting the shackles or as you put it "pulling the triger", but I see your point.
Cutting the shackles off is the ultimate freedom from the lies, deceits, false witnessing, loss of time, talents, money and all the baggage engrained into the hearts and minds of members who hurt, and in pain and agony and some even destroyed by the corporation.
Blessing Gerado, John, Evan and Weston and your families.
Respect! What an incredible interview. Thank you.
This is what real love looks like💜
The true love of Christ
Powerful story and message. Delightful guests!
Revelation = risk assessment … Perfect
Omg 😱 I’ve learned a lot before about the Mormonism . But these 3 parts of interviews are just a revelation for me 🙄🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Evan and his son are such a great guys . Thank you guys for your bravery and honesty . ❤❤❤❤
Thank you so much for sharing your journey. Truly this is so helpful and I can’t wait to read your book!
I can’t believe the arrogance of these GA. And by can’t believe, I mean I completely believe it.
I love that your wife pointed out ecclesiastical abuse. My husband and I feel we’ve suffered that as well. I believe Spiritual abuse is pretty widespread in the church and is very damaging. Using threats and fear to try and manipulate someone to keep them in is WRONG!
Thanks for listening and commenting. So sorry you experienced ecclesiastical abuse too.
this is a very fine interview
John A. McCune was a Stake President where I served my mission. He would have us over for breakfast monthly to talk about missionary work in the stake (I was there for 7 months). He was an intimidating man and it always felt like he was trying to “discern” whether we were good missionaries or not, in terms of obeying the rules. He was called as a mission president while I was there and I was relieved he was leaving, although I felt bad for those missionaries that would be serving under him!
Ya he was a stalwart, motivated, tolerant and a good trainer for me.. Despite me being me. He was my first mission companion. Genuinely good guy.
Thank you for telling your stories!! 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Loved this series! Thanks to this family for sharing their experiences.
Your journey has been horrendous. Your family is a bright beacon for all of us.
I adore you John! You make a safe place for people to tell their stories. THATS RARE PERFECTION! Your approach allows EVERYONE TO TELL THEIR STORY, IN THEIR WORDS! You have extreme intelligence you humbly keep from us…..so ALL FEEL THEY ARE SPEAKING TO THEIR MOST FAVORED UNCLE. You are gifted.
Thank you so much for all 3 parts! This has been amazing and I can't wait to read both books!
The 2015 policy was very troubling to me, but the reversal was even worse in the shelf-breaking sense as I clearly realized these guys do NOT talk to God. They are making it up as they go, and this reversal was one of the major things that made me need to look into the rabbit hole. If they were wrong there, where else have they been wrong? Oh boy, was I in for a surprise. I went to take a sip from the waters of church history and truth claims, and I ended up drinking from a firehose of eye-opening information. Congrats church, you played yourself
This was fascinating to get all the varieties of perspectives along the paths. I also served a mission but came out later. I always wondered what the leadership perspective was when there is an effort to find the common ground or resolve the superficial issues and get deeper on core issues.
This was such a beautiful episode! Thank you for sharing your experience as individuals and a family. We also removed our records (family of 5) from the church this last January. It feels good to have that more resolute step in separating from something so harmful.
I’m so impressed that you felt you could stay for as long as you did and try to create change from within. I think my husband had many of those feelings as well. I knew I couldn’t handle the added years of trauma that would cause for me or my children-all daughters who would be raised with the same harmful teachings about a woman’s role in the world and church. The LGBTQ issue was also huge for me and Elder Holland’s BYU talk was just the catalyst I needed to finally go down the rabbit hole you mentioned in this episode (I love all of Bart Ehrman’s books as well). When I heard his words in that talk my first thought was, “I have to know that the young valedictorian he completely berated is alive and well. What if he killed himself from hearing those words from an apostle??” And my second thought was, “That sounds nothing like Jesus Christ and he is claiming to speak as a witness of Christ!”
I’m so grateful that I have been able to learn the actual history of the church and leave with no worries that I am deceived or sinning.
I’ve never felt this happy or free in my life. All that to say that this episode really resonated with me! Thank you again for being willing to share your life experiences with us all. I wish your family the most beautiful experiences life can bring as you move forward on a more positive path.
Thanks! Glad our journey resonated. Totally agree with everything you said. So happy you guys have found joy outside the church too.
I wish everyone would open their mind like this, and see the lies the church and all religion tells. It’s so great to be free of it all.
Awesome work and interview!
Great great podcast! One of the most important MSP podcasts to watch. So many truths discussed.
That Oaks guy sounds like a bit of a pain.
I am not Mormon but I listen to Mormon Stories almost every day or at night in bed. I have a young man at a mission in Vancouver right now. I hope my relatives change. A favorite niece turned Mormon and I could not witness her wedding, that was so hurtful.
You guys rocked this!!!! I do have questions and will talk soon. Love your whole family so much!
Wow over 10,000 views!!! Woohoo!
It's so true that true free agency equals happiness. Like Weston said, he may not even be living that many things differently but the difference is that he is choosing. That is exactly how I have felt. It is so engrained in us that being in the church is the only way to have true happiness. That has been my biggest surprise as I have been stepping away that there actually is a lot of true happiness outside of the church and I personally have felt it comes down to feeling free and actually having agency and being able to choose for myself how to live. It only took me 54 years to figure this out. It's so ironic that in the church we really don't have nor get to exercise free agency when supposedly that is is what we fought for before we came to earth. Only to have it then taken away.
I would love to hear Ed Smart on Mormon Stories.
Me too.
Great episode :)
This series is AWESOME!!! I left in 1965 because of the racism and other more minor issues. At the time I was willing to lie about my LGBTQ sexual orientation because THE CULTURE was all I had known in my life, and while I did have the sorrow of leaving "the one true church" .. it was short lived. In the decades since then, I ask myself how I EVER could have had any identity with Mormonisn ... yet the past is the past. Thanks to Evan (and Cheryl!) and Wes for this deeply moving witness of exemplary lives. BLESS YOUR FAMILY, and I wish you a great life of continued witness of what good might be in this world when people choose integrity and love!!
@Will Byrd - Thank you!
You are most welcome, Evan! Your story and Weston's are inspiring. It's been decades, yet I will never forget the moment and occasion when I said to myself "I know that I have left the one true church, BUT this is the most free and happiest i have been in my life!" so ... when I heard you and Wes talk about the same sense of freedom ... how well I know what you were saying.
MormonThink is indeed an awesome classic.
Loved this so much. Good work guys. Very powerful.
The truth will set you free..... but at first it will piss you off lol, love it
I’m never a morman…your podcast is so educational. The chad daybell/lorie vallow case brought me here.
Well this channel is absolute buns, they're spreading lies
Thanks a lot for this interviews! They really are wholesome for a lot of us
Thanks!
I cried as I was listening to your story Weston. You are so strong and brave and have been raised by the most awesome parents. I left the church a year ago because of the issues I had with lgbtq issues with the church and it was a huge snowball effect after that. Thank you both for being to vulnerable to help save lives.
Watched all 3 episodes. Powerful. I am a Humanist. It is interesting to me to learn how church members live their lives within the framework of the church. One big question I have is, " How can church members justify the mass amount of wealth their church has accumulated off REQUIRED tithings?"
Tony Perkins was my branch president for a year or so (long time ago). A very empathetic and kind man. He was working for McKinsey at the time.
My experience with Dave McCune is on the list of reasons why I left. Glad to be in such good company.
I am listening a year later, May 2024, and we see exactly this scenario. Some gay couples have callings while others are exed! This has caused so many hard feelings!
Great interview.
Families are forever and on top of the list, then the church. This is the best Mormon Stories all 3 parts! This is a powerful family regardless of which church they belong to.
Great story!
Loved this episode! I feel a kinship with Evan. I am a current stake presidency 1st counselor (8.5 years in) and contend with so much of what Evan described. I am trying to affect change and improvement in the church where I can.
Don’t you receive direct revelation regarding not only yourself and family, but you have the right to receive revelation on behalf of hundreds of people in your stake?
@@Applest2oApples I have learned to trust myself and rely on my own tuition and hard work. I am liberated by not relying on "revelation". I encourage others to do the same.
Elder Haynie was in my 6th grade class and class president at Bountiful high school if i remember correctly.
Wow. Hearing about all the problems and him talking about how all his different kids were struggling at different times with the church and they were straight white etc… and then he says it’s all about how they feel I’m just wondering if TRUTH matters at all outside of FEELINGS.
If truth does matter, then I’d suggest understanding epistemology, skepticism, assessing claims, burden of proof, default position, standards of evidence, reliable methodologies, fallacies, and bias. But one step at a time… epistemology is the most important.
Thank you, thank you!
Bravo Evan and Wes. This is without doubt one of the most insightful talks/interviews I have ever heard…very impressive. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I have lived some of the same, (as I am certain many others have). Fortunately for me I am
Not afraid to express and I am very thankful you both are so open and able to express.
Thank you!
@@evansmith2171 my pleasure indeed. I am also looking at the group you belong to. I am a long time church member with my own issues…I am a Dad if two and I am gay.
@@chucklambooy8457 - If either of your kids are LGBTQ+, we would love to have you in our group. We only allow parents in it so they feel comfortable sharing their feelings with other parents.
JOHN, you are so funny “13 years” haha
This young man is BEAUTIFUL! I love him! You are the most amazing human! You’re on a beautiful path…..because YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL!
My dear friend. Her husband was released from the Stake Presidency after 2 yrs.
They’re a beautiful leadership couple.
Boy they were upset.
Stake President wanted my friend to go “make money”
In this case tho- I think the Stake President was right.
Take care of your family should always be first
Thank you Wes and Evan for doing this! I've been looking forward to this for what feels like over a year now, and this was every bit the experience I'd hoped it would be.
I like Cheryl!
Thank you for this wonderful interview. I would like to know how you dealt with the impact on parents and siblings and your family leaving the church.
Before resigning from the church, we talked about it with the family members we have who are still active in the church. They expressed both their understanding and disagreement with our decision. But said our decision didn’t change their love for us. We agreed to not discuss church truth claims without being asked about them. So just agreed to respect each other’s views, focus on the beliefs we still have in common, and emphasize our mutual ongoing love basically. Really lucky we have loving family.
@@evansmith2171 Thank you for your reply. I can really relate to many aspects of your story. While all my children appear to be straight right now, I am struggling with parents, more than anything. They would be crushed and likely angry to learn where I am now. I'll just go slowly and decide what is best.
@@MrEbrose1 - Totally makes sense. Everyone’s situation is different. And family relationships are vital. I hope you have joy and support in your journey.
The Gospel is the same yesterday, today and forever. The Gospel of Christ is love. The Gospel he taught was love. The Church is not the Gospel.
Wow, elder Mccune was my first companion on my mission. Really good guy. Im glad he has risen so high. I joked the last time I saw him that He became so strong because I was so trying. Lol. It's all thanks to me
I don't know how to explain it, but something about these stories make me proud to be american. Like it can be such a wacky place to be born, but we come together and try to figure it out the best we can.
Fantastic interview!
This made me truly emotional. Just so much empathy. And I agree with his wife. And him of course. But it is just unbelievable that this behaviour is tolerated by leaders of this church.
The problem is that it's not about doctrine or fulfilling God's guidance, it's about power and control. This is about maintaining power over a trillion dollar corporation. There is absolutely no interest in diluting that power in any way. The lives of people are insignificant, collateral damage to maintain that power. You can't appeal to empathy, compassion, a conscience where there is none. Only the appearance and damage control to maintain the appearance, to maintain the power.
These two were my favorite. I couldn't stop listening. So much 💘
I kinda want to start going back to church just so I can stick my neck out and challenge anything that doesn't have love/charity at its heart and purpose.
I was going to watch this, but then decided I should watch parts one and two first. However, I can’t find them.
Evan speaks about how the LDS church has finally acknowledged that some people are born gay and that it’s not their choice. Does anybody know exactly where the church has said this? I am struggling to find an exact reference. Thank you!
Try here: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay?lang=eng
From the Leaders section of that topics page:
Feelings of same-sex attraction are not a sin. Elder M. Russell Ballard stated:
“Let us be clear: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that ‘the experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including [those with same-sex attraction]’”
Thanks so much guys!!!
@@evansmith2171 I'm looking on the website and seeing statements that "the church makes no claims about the causes of same sex attraction" (in both Leader area and individual area. Any insights on where the biological is credited? Thank you so much. We have 3 gay kids.
@@getjuliet - I think you can get there by pointing to Elder Ballard’s quote above that says same-sex attraction is not a choice. Because our sexual attractions are biological, I believe we can therefore conclude the church’s official position is that gay sexual orientation is an unchosen biological trait. The church doesn’t opine on the scientific/developmental processes that form sexual orientation. But it does say the physical attraction itself is not chosen. And while not a church spokesman, Bill Bradshaw was a BYU professor (and former mission president) who explained the epigenetics behind its development. There’s a section in Chapter 3 of my book that discusses the science using his work and other sources too.
That comment about god changing with the times because that’s what humans can handle at that time. It’s pretty clever, but what kind of weak a** god is that? He can’t tell people to not own other people as property, he can’t tell people to allow women to have equal rights, and he can’t tell people they shouldn’t be homophobic and cruel. That is one weak god. What good is he then?
The church is like a girl who doesn't wanna break up with you so she just drags you along in hopes you'll leave so she doesn't have to dump you. The church needs to just say that they don't want gay members of the church around. Wish them well but let them leave the church peacefully if they can. Instead the church keeps saying they want them to stay but only if they pretend to not be who they want to be. Break up if you aren't gonna let them be themselves.
I don't think it's a big deal if the church wants to be exclusive and if they don't want gay couples or whatever, even if it's rude. But they gotta stop stringing people along because all it does is cause people pain and trauma. No idea if this makes sense.
Yes, the church makes things worse in some ways by trying to keep gay people in it. I actually think some of highest leaders want gay people to leave but they can’t say that without alienating non-LGBTQ members too.
They never apologize and the LDS church is abusive, all in the name of,,,,,
No PDA? Tell that to Nelson who showed off his new trophy wife at a general conference - look at me - see my wife with the biggest smirk on his face. I wanted to puke! Disgusting!!!
Which conference please?
Not Gerardo’s, “I relate.” 😂💀 2:17:35