It's actually 16 2/3 rpm. Besides the "talking books", other countries like South Africa had 16 2/3 rpm, 12" albums so they could get 2 complete albums on one record. Probably the most widespread use of this speed was on special background music 9" records used in Seeburg Background Music systems. Seeburg introduced these records in the late-50's for use on their hideaway record changers, There were even some hideaway units which played both the 12" conventional LP's and the special BMS 9" records. In 1963, they introduced the BMS 1000 self contained unit which was bright and shiny like a jukebox and was meant to be on display. Seeburg continued the BMS records well into the 1970's to early-80's when AMI-Rowe took over the format and continued it for awhile. Muzak and Wollensack were Seeburgs main competitors, but Seeburg also entered the broadcast background music service. The records themselves were all mono and were cut for a special .5 mil stylus. They all used a jumpered Pickering "Redhead" cartridge which Seeburg introduced on their first stereo jukebox in the late-50's. Eventhough Seeburg had moved on with a newer and lighter-tracking cartridge for it's other jukeboxes, they continued to use the "Redhead" in the BMS units.
I've seen transcription discs of old radio programs on 16 RPM discs; I don't know the exact size, but they were huge platters. The only 16 2/3 RPM discs I have are a 5-record Talking Book album produced by Audio Books in 1958 of Basil Rathbone reading the Sherlock Holmes stories "A Scandal in Bohemia;" "The Red-Headed League;" "The Speckled Band;" and "The Blue Carbuncle." They're slightly different from the recordings he made for RCA Caedmon in 1966-1967. The album notes include a bio of Rathbone and a list of 26 Talking Book albums, including the number of records in each, ranging from 1 ("Gulliver's Travels" and "The King of the Golden River and The Great Stone Face") to 26 ("The Complete New Testament" and "The Old Testament," with the latter consisting of Genesis, Judges, Ruth, Esther, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, and Isaiah).
I remember that my grandfather, who was legally blind, got those 8 rpm discs on loan from the Feds, along with a machine that could play them. This would have been in the 1960’s, maybe early 1970s, as I recall.
I thought, if there is not such thing already, to make the most speed flexible record player. It would have eight, 16, 33, 45, and 78 RPM along with a pitch control and two buttons. Half speed and a double speed. So at eight RPM it would play 16, if you select the double speed option, at 16 it will play 33, at45 it would play 90, at 78 it would play 156 RPM. The opposite is forhalf speed button. I do not know why should anyone ever needs such as speed flexibility but I am providing it just in case, and if someone wants to play with re record speeds.
Jeffrey314159 Yes I love these records and they are coming back again.Elvis Presley even made 16 and 2/3rds records Love them.They are the parent of MP3s
16 RPM was used for many years by radio broadcast networks, for network programming, and also by advertisers. The discs were larger than 12” although I forget exactly how large (I think 14”). You can see evidence of this in episodes of the first season of ‘WKRP in Cincinnati’, as the in-studio turntables are an older type that had the capacity to play those records. You can see it in a few scenes where the deejay is spinning 12” records , and it’s obvious the table could play a much larger disc. Scheduled and pre-recorded programming could be sent out on these larger 16 RPM discs to radio stations all over the country, so that the entire network could air a program at the same time without the need for a live nationwide hook-up. The discs were large enough and would spin slowly enough that one disc could hold a lot of programming. Radio was all or mostly AM, not FM, so fidelity wasn’t a major issue. Marketing firms also used the 16 RPM format for distributing radio advertisements. Improvements in tape technology obviated 16 RPM discs, at least for radio’s purposes.
Don't forget the 8RPM talking books for the blind (I haven't found any of those yet). And how about diameters? My collection ranges from 2" to 16". I've heard that there are a few Pathé discs 20" in diameter!
I remember when FM Radio stations played this kind of stuff.Usually some old guy in a Big Caddilac or Lincoin had this playing on his "Living Stereo" sound system.
eBay! Search for "16RPM record", "Seeburg Encore", "Seeburg background music" or anything like that. These records were made for background music in factories and department stores, and Seeburg made a dedicated phonograph system to play them.
I knew I was getting old the first time I heard The Beatles "Long and Winding Road" over the store music system. A week later, it was Pink Floyd's "Time". Now they're playing the Pixies at the grocery store. Time is flying by way too fast for my liking...
Our old Radiogram had the 4 speeds on it back in New Zealand in the 1960's, always wondered why, as I have never seen a record that plays 16. ....now I have !. Cheers for the clip Mark. Yes I almost fell asleep listening to it.lol
This is the 1st time I've actually seen any 16-rpm records. I'd ask when I was little (in the 60s) about that, but no one knew. Much later I read that talking books for the blind were what 16 rpm was for. I'm surprised by the audio quality here.
Very beautiful sight of that very slow moving record . Very relaxing as if the world around me was unwinding itself into a stretch and a yawn before staggering upto the bed . Am from India and thanks for posting this video.
I love the music, it's very nice fox trot. I wish they would still played it over the loud speakers at stores, we still play some of this music at my office. I'm surprised it sounds so good at that speed.
This same speed variance was included on many reel-to-reel recorders in the early days: There was 30 ips (inches per second) for studio commercial quality music recording; 15 ips was tops in most home recorders; 7 1/2 ips speed was on virtually all recorders; 3 3/4 ips was most common because you could get one hour on a side of a standard 1200 ft. acetate 1.5 mil tape, and it was satisfactory for most music. But on some machines they included 1 7/8 ips for spoken word recordings. Music was very fluttery and muffled, so except for those using this speed to record meetings, or as business recording devices, or to listen and monitor a room's ambience, the slow speed was seldom used.
And then your fluttery 1 7/8 went to cassettes which while it never really rivalled r2r it was very impressive at it's best with Doldy HX on metal tape.
Ah, yes. That sounds much more fitting. :) Even so, you have to admire the ingenuity behind it. Maybe that's why it's coming back so thick n fast? I mean the sales of records are just sky rocketing. It's merely a fraction of sales during 77' at it's peek but it's growing fast! If an old 16 speed elevator music record can hold all our attention online.. (And NOT send us to sleep!) the world has yet to discover the warmth of as you say Stereo records! Long live Vinyl!
The audio quality is very good. Virtually no wow. Wow was always a concern when 1 7/8 ips was introduced as a slow tape speed. But Philips overcame the problem, and I think phono manufacturers would have ben able to make a great player. Very good video, thanks for posting.
I was telling about the speeds of records, but could not find about 16, only the size of a transcription record (16"). But finally I found this! Good deal!
I have a 16 RPM LP set on Caedmon of a reading of "A Christmas Carol". I also have a box set of 16 RPM large-hole 7" discs containing readings of letters by Abraham Lincoln (not in his own voice, though that might be nice).
Thanks for a very entertaining video, I just LOVE your witty comments......:o) I have a few 16RPM players (Garrard changer, GE portable brown box player), but have never seen any records either. My Dad says they made some that were huge, you needed a longer tonearm on some players because the record was so big - weird! Thanks again for a great video, I even like the music as well, it did make me nice and relaxed lol. Cheers! Bellarmine
I just bought a 7" 16rpm record of Beethoven's 5th symphony! The whole symphony is on just one record that looks like a 45rpm single. I was amazed! It sounds bad, though- the slow speed and ultra-microgroove cut of the record doesn't allow much in the way of dynamics. But still- it's a cool little record!
When I first started teaching 6th grade in 1959, I purchased a series of Sherlock Holmes stories on 16 2/3 rpm 7-inch discs. For speech, they worked well enough. There're in the attic somewhere.
+gmmix Do you happen to have a pen at hand? Write my address down, so you can send them all to me, please. It'll clear some room in your attic, just in case you need it. And I'll take them for free! Now, seriously: please get those babies spinning, make some videos and share them with the world!
Didn't know that- Thanks! Other than long-winded speeches, I could never see a use for 1 7/8. I thought it was amazing that standard cassette tapes sounded as good as they did using 1 7/8, but the head technology improved to where micro-thin head gaps were possible. The first cassette (even before Dolby was introduced) I heard was amazing, despite the hiss.
The seeburg encore series wasn’t meant for grocery stores, these were made for fine restaurants, night clubs or upscale shopping stores I have a encore machine, they were 800.00 in 1963 for the player. These were not for the 1000! This series had its own player in a nice wooden cabinet. The 1000 was the one that was for grocery stores or factories
the sound quality is really good! do you need a special needle for the micro-micro-microgroove of the 16 rpm records or they can be played with the regular 33/45 needle?
As a kid, I remember seeing turntables that had the 16 RPM speed, and I had never seen a record for that speed then. So, I asked my Dad at the time if he ever saw any 16 RPM records, and he told me that back when he worked in television production, the local station he was with at the time had in their production music library a set of sound effects records released by Pepper-Tanner (a production element & library music company back in the day, much like Network Music, Valentino, or KPM) that were pressed at 16 RPM! I'd like to find some of these records, if any still exist...
I have a 16-RPM record that is part of an audiobook set of "Pinocchio," read by Marvin Miller. It looks just like a 45 (7-inch diameter, large hole, etc.)
I think 16RPM was meant more for speech, for spoken word records for the blind. There were a few releases that were commercial in nature, the longer playing time being the biggest feature, but the audio quality was inferior to the 33RPM LP.
HOLY COW! It works .. and.. and it sounds VERY good quality. I don't understand. Why on EARTH didn't they make albums in this format? They always said "oh it's less quality" but this sounds better than any MP3 I've heard. And just look at how much material they would save! I am genuinely shocked. 16 speeds should got the Dark Side of the moon all on 1 moon revolving record!
I knew this post would get someone who likes every variety in their collection! Weren't some of the Pathé discs 120 RPM? Or were they Berliner? So many varieties of groovy discs- your collection must be tremendous!
Sorry- I'm wrong. The CD-4 system used a 30kHz subcarrier! The subcarrier recorded the difference between the front and back channels, while the groove as a whole had the sum of the front and back channels, so it was compatible with standard stereo. The subcarrier was demodulated to subtract the difference from front and back channels: (LF+LB) + (LF-LB)=2LF or left front (LF+LB) - (LF-LB)=2LB or left back There were several Quadraphonic systems, but this was the most successful.
I have some 10" 16 2/3 rpm talking book records for the blind. I also have some 8 1/3 rpm talking book records that are on both 10" rigid disc and 9" flexible disc format. The only players that I've seen with 8 rpm speed were specially designed machines that were loaned by the library of congress to users of the talking books program. I have two such players & some records on my channel.
16 rpm was not restricted to these records. 16 rpm records were available to the public. In the US, they were mostly used for spoken-word content, like religious sermons, talking books, and so on, but outside the US, it was not uncommon to find music sold on the 16-2/3 rpm records. A 12" record could pack something like 40 minutes of music to a side. The audio quality suffered a bit due to the slow speed, though, but was still 'acceptable' - better than AM radio, at any rate. Chrysler used 16-2/3 rpm for their Hiway Hi-Fi system in the late 1950s, but if you have these records, DO NOT play them on consumer equipment - they WILL be damaged if you do. The Chrysler system used an ultra-fine stylus (0.3-mil, I think), and a common 0.7-mil LP/45 stylus is NOT compatible. The Seeburg system also used a finer needle, but you can usually get away with using the standard LP/45 stylus if it's in good condition, even though the Seeburg records were never intended for consumer use.
I've seen a CZcams post of a Herb Alpert release on 16 2/3. I can't imagine that the sound would be anywhere near as good as the standard LP. One convenient thing is that the longer playing time means a two-record set fits on one disc! That's the first I've heard of a stylus being that small, a rarity. I've heard of them as small as .6mil, but never smaller than that. Interesting!
From the Wikipedia entry for Chrysler Highway Hi-Fi (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Hi-Fi): "A proprietary 0.25-mil (i.e., 0.00025" or a quarter of a "thou") stylus was used with an unusually high stylus pressure of two grams to prevent skipping or skating despite normal car vibrations." Despite these measures, the record-player-for-cars idea was never a great success because they had numerous problems, even the 'generic' systems that used standard 45s. CBS built both the Chrysler systems and their generic replacements. Little known fact: Motorola got its start building 'automotive' record players - literally, Motor Victrola. And one of the people behind Motorola was none other than William Powell Lear, the man behind the Lear Jet, and who later went on to create the 8-Track tape (though in reality he merely 'improved on' the Muntz Stereo-Pak). The Seeburg background music system used an 0.5-mil styles. Obviously the typical 0.7-mill LP/45 stylus is not 'ideal' but with low tracking pressures of better-grade consumer equipment, they usually don't have too many problems.
Me too. I love learning the technological history of things we take for granted today. I was inspired by an old show from 1980 called 'Connections', which examines the origins and causes of many things. I was particularly tripped out when I found out why the car is named 'Mercedes', as well as hearing the origin and original application of the IBM punch card.
I have a 16rpm 12" album of classical music somewhere........a few beat up hi-way hi fi 7inch discs that go 16rpm too...crazy stuff...your seeburgh disc sounds awesome
+bob7872 The sound is surprising, if played with a magnetic cartridge with an elliptical stylus point it's better- not by a whole lot, but it does sound pretty good.
i have a 16rpm from South Africa on MGM E 4003 CONNIE FRANCIS SOUVENIR ALBUM issued in 1967 with 24 sides ,12 on each side. It's the only CF one issued.
Yes- it really does sound fairly good. I'd like to do an audio spectrum analysis of one of these records to see what the frequency response actually is. Quadraphonic LPs had a modulated 50kHz subcarrier for the rear channels, I doubt that a frequency that high could be recorded at 16RPM. Also- this record is mono- could there also be a recording issue with stereo grooves at slow speed?
CD4 system has the problem, that the quadro information was easily destroyed. So the surviving records has SQ or QS matrix encoded. At 1950 there were stereo records using two grooves on each side - to combine this with Blumlein stereo had to be the perfect system but they never tried
IDK why they didn't just use 7 inch 16 RPM discs with the standard "45" center hole for every application. Albums, singles, and talking books. I've heard that the faster turning discs had higher fidelity. I don't buy that. I've observed that the faster turning discs are prone to having more surface noise, which is what one would reasonably expect.
Hi. I have a 16 rpm record with a recording of my piano professor, who also was a great Cuban composer. I have never been able to play it, and I would like to know if there is any place in the US with technology not only to play it but to transfer to MP3. Your prompt reply will be greatly appreciated.
Connect your phonograph to your computer and record at 33 1/3 RPM using Audacity. In the effects menu of Audacity, reduce speed by 50%. You can now save this audio file as .mp3 (you will need to download the LAME library due to licensing issues).
@@Mark5W8Comer I will certainly try to do it. I am not very good, or completely good with equipments connected to the computer, but I have good friends around that are more than perfect on it. Your answer and help will be appreciated for ever. I will let you know as soon as I get it done. Have a wonderful week-end!
Get an AT-LP120XUSB it can transfer your records to your computer. Furthermore, the pitch slider allows you to set the speed to 33 and a third, move the slider to -50%, and then get a 16 and two thirds speed.
@@seamusmckeon9109 I am not familiar with the AT-LP120XUSB but will find out in the internet. Once I do it, I will let you know in order to thank you once more for all your help!!!!!
There actually were a few commercial releases at 16RPM, I wonder why it didn't take off, too- double the playing time, but the opportunity for audible wow were probably increased. I wonder how stable the rotational speeds were on those old phonos. Another issue would be high frequency response as well.
I understand it so, that releasing two records as double album or three in a box adds about 25 ¢ for each record. The only need for very long playing small records was in car stereo, but soon they changed to 8 track tape. And the Philips compact cassette was a portable music format. Also you could increase playing time by reducing frequencies below 200 Hz, reducing level, so it's easy to get 60 minutes per side and keeping compatibility to the 12" Stereo record standard
You're correct at 0:57 in saying that because these records are audio sounds, they are therefore made for the hearing (persons able to hear). I don't know why they would write "Solely for the use of the blind" especially when this particular record doesn't appear to have braille printing on the label which the blind can read.
I wonder how much of the quality is due to the Glaser Steers changer- there's been a lot of comment on the quality of the sound. To top it off, I'm using a cheapo ceramic cart! Maybe obsolete tech is really the best after all!
These were played in special machine in department stores. If you play the whole record it plays for nearly 1 hour on one side! What I heard these records when played produced a special subliminal message inside the music only the subconscious can hear!! They even had special records for the holidays!
You occasionally find the record player on eBay, it's about the size of a microwave oven. The longest playing side in my collection is a little over 34 minutes. The records were provided via a "subscription" service, and were tailored for holidays. When new records were shipped, old ones were to be returned. Play the beginning of Electric Light Orchestra's "Eldorado" backward if you want to hear a subliminal message...
I almost bought a the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) on some of those 16 rpm records with the massive hole. They did come with what looked like a huge 45 adapter.
They didn't kept 78 rpm because the goal was to improve running time and to improve sound a little bit. The Maxi Singles give an impression how good a record can sound, when a 12" has 7 minutes music only.
1:30 Pico groove. Initially the 16 rpm should be the half of a 33 rpm record, half speed, half groove width. Beside some records for the blind, the Seeburg Mood Music system uses Pico grooves and 16 rpm and can store about 40 minutes on one side of a 9" disc
What's the time duration of this 16rpm LP record ? In india I haven't seen this type of LP of 16rpm. But on my record player by HMV there is an option of speed adjustment of 16.
@shoprat17 Were the Torah records in Hebrew? That would have been cool. I have the New Testament and parts of the Old Testament (Psalms alone would have been 50 records?) on 7" 16rpm, some of them have the 1 1/2" adaptor built into the record. They're also real thin, but not like the FlexiDiscs.
The quality is actually pretty good for a 16RPM. Perfect for homes that didn't really care about Hi-Fi, just long-lasting music. Funny it never really took off in the consumer market. Seems like a money saver to me.
Ah yes, u have a point there. Stereo is essentially 2 channels which create a third by combining them. It might degrade the quality by 2. Although we'd probably not notice it as much with analog lines than digital. A modulated subcarrier at 50KHz.. fascinating! I wonder why. Maybe it's a form of dithering. I must admit though, that is a LOT of data for such slow resolutions. You'd have to make the vinyl 50" big! lol What utterly sublime technology. It has such a characteristic absent in digital
So people would feel comfortable and content while shopping therefore spending more time in the store. It’s much better than most of the “stuff” heard these days.
Wow and flutter is an issue, but this is the same as recording tape at slow speed- limited dynamic range, reduced frequency response. Noise is less due to low groove velocity but the music will suffer especially toward the inner wraps of the spiral.
a.m 880 kixi plays this kind of music and it sounds better than to day, it's in the mercer island Seattle Washington. If you want to listen to the online radio google am 880 kixi streaming live or if like the station down load kixi app 4 free.
This record changer came from a Philco console with tubes. BUT! In this video, the cartridge output is plugged into a cheezy transistor phono preamp from Radio Shack, the output from the preamp was then fed into the audio inputs of a computer for recording. So, history says "tube," but the video says "solid state."
Just the regular .7mil tip, a 1mil should do fine- these aren't stereo. The groove really isn't smaller than the normal LP groove, just the reduction in speed is what makes the playing time so long. At 33 1/3, this would play for 8 minutes.
Yes, if you were ever in a department store- or office complex- in the 1960's, you would have heard this kind of music coming out of the wall speakers above you...Seeburg had different tiers of "Light" and "Industrial" background music packages [along with the player], tailored for various businesses.... "Mr. Alphonse, I MUST talk to you!" "What are you doing here, Genevieve? I told you to stay in the secretarial pool until I called for you..." "It's about your wife....SHE KNOWS."
I have 16rpm Audio Bible records and 4 speed Murphy Turntable... I would like to buy the audio book adaptor ( centre piece)..could you please help me..
I have no idea where you would get those adaptors. Some of my Audio Bible records have them (and they've been "welded" into the hole...) and some don't. Whether this is a separate piece that you can find I don't know.
Betamax Flippy The Seeburg system for which these records were made was mainly for department store music, or "elevator soundtracks". Not audiophile quality, but surprisingly good for what it is- and better than I expected, too.
that doesnt sound bad at all,i would assume 16rpm would allow lots of wow and flutter but i didnt hear much if any?can you imagine a ktel album at 16rpm,the way they jammed 16 cuts on a side at 33,i wonder how many would fit at 16rpm? odd the speed never caught on
It's actually 16 2/3 rpm. Besides the "talking books", other countries like South Africa had 16 2/3 rpm, 12" albums so they could get 2 complete albums on one record.
Probably the most widespread use of this speed was on special background music 9" records used in Seeburg Background Music systems. Seeburg introduced these records in the late-50's for use on their hideaway record changers, There were even some hideaway units which played both the 12" conventional LP's and the special BMS 9" records. In 1963, they introduced the BMS 1000 self contained unit which was bright and shiny like a jukebox and was meant to be on display.
Seeburg continued the BMS records well into the 1970's to early-80's when AMI-Rowe took over the format and continued it for awhile.
Muzak and Wollensack were Seeburgs main competitors, but Seeburg also entered the broadcast background music service.
The records themselves were all mono and were cut for a special .5 mil stylus. They all used a jumpered Pickering "Redhead" cartridge which Seeburg introduced on their first stereo jukebox in the late-50's. Eventhough Seeburg had moved on with a newer and lighter-tracking cartridge for it's other jukeboxes, they continued to use the "Redhead" in the BMS units.
"The wait time for the next representative is approximately 30 minutes"
I've seen transcription discs of old radio programs on 16 RPM discs; I don't know the exact size, but they were huge platters. The only 16 2/3 RPM discs I have are a 5-record Talking Book album produced by Audio Books in 1958 of Basil Rathbone reading the Sherlock Holmes stories "A Scandal in Bohemia;" "The Red-Headed League;" "The Speckled Band;" and "The Blue Carbuncle." They're slightly different from the recordings he made for RCA Caedmon in 1966-1967. The album notes include a bio of Rathbone and a list of 26 Talking Book albums, including the number of records in each, ranging from 1 ("Gulliver's Travels" and "The King of the Golden River and The Great Stone Face") to 26 ("The Complete New Testament" and "The Old Testament," with the latter consisting of Genesis, Judges, Ruth, Esther, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, and Isaiah).
They also had 8 1/3 audio records for the blind, Library of Congress published them.
I remember that my grandfather, who was legally blind, got those 8 rpm discs on loan from the Feds, along with a machine that could play them. This would have been in the 1960’s, maybe early 1970s, as I recall.
I thought, if there is not such thing already, to make the most speed flexible record player. It would have eight, 16, 33, 45, and 78 RPM along with a pitch control and two buttons. Half speed and a double speed. So at eight RPM it would play 16, if you select the double speed option, at 16 it will play 33, at45 it would play 90, at 78 it would play 156 RPM. The opposite is forhalf speed button. I do not know why should anyone ever needs such as speed flexibility but I am providing it just in case, and if someone wants to play with re record speeds.
That is excellent sound quality for 16 rpm
Just a little flutter on the piano.
Jeffrey314159
Yes I love these records and they are coming back again.Elvis Presley even made 16 and 2/3rds records
Love them.They are the parent of MP3s
The quality of this music is actually quite amazing!!! This is the type of music I enjoy playing in the background when I'm reading :)
If you ever get to hear a properly working wire recorder you would be even more amazed.
I have heard a 16 rpm sports commentary record, but never a 16 rpm music record, it sounds better than I would expect! 🙂
16 RPM was used for many years by radio broadcast networks, for network programming, and also by advertisers. The discs were larger than 12” although I forget exactly how large (I think 14”). You can see evidence of this in episodes of the first season of ‘WKRP in Cincinnati’, as the in-studio turntables are an older type that had the capacity to play those records. You can see it in a few scenes where the deejay is spinning 12” records , and it’s obvious the table could play a much larger disc.
Scheduled and pre-recorded programming could be sent out on these larger 16 RPM discs to radio stations all over the country, so that the entire network could air a program at the same time without the need for a live nationwide hook-up. The discs were large enough and would spin slowly enough that one disc could hold a lot of programming. Radio was all or mostly AM, not FM, so fidelity wasn’t a major issue. Marketing firms also used the 16 RPM format for distributing radio advertisements.
Improvements in tape technology obviated 16 RPM discs, at least for radio’s purposes.
Don't forget the 8RPM talking books for the blind (I haven't found any of those yet).
And how about diameters? My collection ranges from 2" to 16". I've heard that there are a few Pathé discs 20" in diameter!
I remember when FM Radio stations played this kind of stuff.Usually some old guy in a Big Caddilac or Lincoin had this playing on his "Living Stereo" sound system.
eBay! Search for "16RPM record", "Seeburg Encore", "Seeburg background music" or anything like that. These records were made for background music in factories and department stores, and Seeburg made a dedicated phonograph system to play them.
I knew I was getting old the first time I heard The Beatles "Long and Winding Road" over the store music system. A week later, it was Pink Floyd's "Time". Now they're playing the Pixies at the grocery store. Time is flying by way too fast for my liking...
Our old Radiogram had the 4 speeds on it back in New Zealand in the 1960's, always wondered why, as I have never seen a record that plays 16. ....now I have !. Cheers for the clip Mark. Yes I almost fell asleep listening to it.lol
Yeah, you'll either sleep or imagine you're in the ladie's underwear department...
This is the 1st time I've actually seen any 16-rpm records. I'd ask when I was little (in the 60s) about that, but no one knew. Much later I read that talking books for the blind were what 16 rpm was for. I'm surprised by the audio quality here.
My dad told me they were for talking books and teach you self french ect
Very beautiful sight of that very slow moving record . Very relaxing as if the world around me was unwinding itself into a stretch and a yawn before staggering upto the bed . Am from India and thanks for posting this video.
sounds lovely, I remeber hearing music like this in the big dept.stores
I love the music, it's very nice fox trot. I wish they would still played it over the loud speakers at stores, we still play some of this music at my office. I'm surprised it sounds so good at that speed.
This same speed variance was included on many reel-to-reel recorders in the early days: There was 30 ips (inches per second) for studio commercial quality music recording; 15 ips was tops in most home recorders; 7 1/2 ips speed was on virtually all recorders; 3 3/4 ips was most common because you could get one hour on a side of a standard 1200 ft. acetate 1.5 mil tape, and it was satisfactory for most music. But on some machines they included 1 7/8 ips for spoken word recordings. Music was very fluttery and muffled, so except for those using this speed to record meetings, or as business recording devices, or to listen and monitor a room's ambience, the slow speed was seldom used.
And then your fluttery 1 7/8 went to cassettes which while it never really rivalled r2r it was very impressive at it's best with Doldy HX on metal tape.
Ah, yes. That sounds much more fitting. :) Even so, you have to admire the ingenuity behind it. Maybe that's why it's coming back so thick n fast? I mean the sales of records are just sky rocketing. It's merely a fraction of sales during 77' at it's peek but it's growing fast! If an old 16 speed elevator music record can hold all our attention online.. (And NOT send us to sleep!) the world has yet to discover the warmth of as you say Stereo records! Long live Vinyl!
The audio quality is very good. Virtually no wow. Wow was always a concern when 1 7/8 ips was introduced as a slow tape speed. But Philips overcame the problem, and I think phono manufacturers would have ben able to make a great player. Very good video, thanks for posting.
Baritones and French Horns from Prestige records was made on a 16 2/3 record. Herb Albert also recorded on a recoding of that speed in 1965
I was telling about the speeds of records, but could not find about 16, only the size of a transcription record (16").
But finally I found this! Good deal!
There were only a handful of commercial releases at 16RPM. Long playing time, but horrible fidelity.
Good music on this particular record, I liked it.
I have a 16 RPM LP set on Caedmon of a reading of "A Christmas Carol".
I also have a box set of 16 RPM large-hole 7" discs containing readings of
letters by Abraham Lincoln (not in his own voice, though that might be nice).
Sir thanks for doing the
demonstration on a Philco
record player.
It's just mind blowing!
I saw one 16 ⅔ lp - in about 1962 in a record shop in Bournemouth. It was a talking book record.
Thanks for a very entertaining video, I just LOVE your witty comments......:o) I have a few 16RPM players (Garrard changer, GE portable brown box player), but have never seen any records either. My Dad says they made some that were huge, you needed a longer tonearm on some players because the record was so big - weird! Thanks again for a great video, I even like the music as well, it did make me nice and relaxed lol. Cheers! Bellarmine
I just bought a 7" 16rpm record of Beethoven's 5th symphony! The whole symphony is on just one record that looks like a 45rpm single. I was amazed! It sounds bad, though- the slow speed and ultra-microgroove cut of the record doesn't allow much in the way of dynamics. But still- it's a cool little record!
When I first started teaching 6th grade in 1959, I purchased a series of Sherlock Holmes stories on 16 2/3 rpm 7-inch discs. For speech, they worked well enough. There're in the attic somewhere.
+gmmix Do you happen to have a pen at hand? Write my address down, so you can send them all to me, please.
It'll clear some room in your attic, just in case you need it. And I'll take them for free!
Now, seriously: please get those babies spinning, make some videos and share them with the world!
Since I thought the speed was only for speech, I was quite surprised at the quality.
I’m yet To find a copy of this Now I have to find one because I love elevator music from the 1950s
I agree...
On reel to reel, the 1 7/8 speed was also used for air check tapes at radio stations.
Didn't know that- Thanks!
Other than long-winded speeches, I could never see a use for 1 7/8. I thought it was amazing that standard cassette tapes sounded as good as they did using 1 7/8, but the head technology improved to where micro-thin head gaps were possible. The first cassette (even before Dolby was introduced) I heard was amazing, despite the hiss.
The seeburg encore series wasn’t meant for grocery stores, these were made for fine restaurants, night clubs or upscale shopping stores
I have a encore machine, they were 800.00 in 1963 for the player. These were not for the 1000! This series had its own player in a nice wooden cabinet. The 1000 was the one that was for grocery stores or factories
It was an ingenious system, they played for hours on end! And a little bit larger than today's standard microwave oven.
the sound quality is really good! do you need a special needle for the micro-micro-microgroove of the 16 rpm records or they can be played with the regular 33/45 needle?
Thank you!😊
As a kid, I remember seeing turntables that had the 16 RPM speed, and I had never seen a record for that speed then. So, I asked my Dad at the time if he ever saw any 16 RPM records, and he told me that back when he worked in television production, the local station he was with at the time had in their production music library a set of sound effects records released by Pepper-Tanner (a production element & library music company back in the day, much like Network Music, Valentino, or KPM) that were pressed at 16 RPM! I'd like to find some of these records, if any still exist...
I have a 16-RPM record that is part of an audiobook set of "Pinocchio," read by Marvin Miller. It looks just like a 45 (7-inch diameter, large hole, etc.)
Just leave it on :) I wanna hear the whole song!
Your 16 RPM record sounds great, I never knew them, nor did the 78 ones RPM.
I think 16RPM was meant more for speech, for spoken word records for the blind. There were a few releases that were commercial in nature, the longer playing time being the biggest feature, but the audio quality was inferior to the 33RPM LP.
HOLY COW! It works .. and.. and it sounds VERY good quality. I don't understand. Why on EARTH didn't they make albums in this format? They always said "oh it's less quality" but this sounds better than any MP3 I've heard. And just look at how much material they would save! I am genuinely shocked. 16 speeds should got the Dark Side of the moon all on 1 moon revolving record!
while it’s good, it’s still not great, you can definitely tell the difference. Sounds more like an mp2 than mp3
also better than any mp3? Your listening it from an mp3 💀💀
@@weegie3343 lol
I knew this post would get someone who likes every variety in their collection! Weren't some of the Pathé discs 120 RPM? Or were they Berliner? So many varieties of groovy discs- your collection must be tremendous!
Pathé had also 120 rpm.
Edison never something else than 80 rpm.
Sorry- I'm wrong. The CD-4 system used a 30kHz subcarrier! The subcarrier recorded the difference between the front and back channels, while the groove as a whole had the sum of the front and back channels, so it was compatible with standard stereo. The subcarrier was demodulated to subtract the difference from front and back channels:
(LF+LB) + (LF-LB)=2LF or left front
(LF+LB) - (LF-LB)=2LB or left back
There were several Quadraphonic systems, but this was the most successful.
I have some 10" 16 2/3 rpm talking book records for the blind. I also have some 8 1/3 rpm talking book records that are on both 10" rigid disc and 9" flexible disc format. The only players that I've seen with 8 rpm speed were specially designed machines that were loaned by the library of congress to users of the talking books program. I have two such players & some records on my channel.
16 rpm was not restricted to these records. 16 rpm records were available to the public. In the US, they were mostly used for spoken-word content, like religious sermons, talking books, and so on, but outside the US, it was not uncommon to find music sold on the 16-2/3 rpm records. A 12" record could pack something like 40 minutes of music to a side. The audio quality suffered a bit due to the slow speed, though, but was still 'acceptable' - better than AM radio, at any rate.
Chrysler used 16-2/3 rpm for their Hiway Hi-Fi system in the late 1950s, but if you have these records, DO NOT play them on consumer equipment - they WILL be damaged if you do. The Chrysler system used an ultra-fine stylus (0.3-mil, I think), and a common 0.7-mil LP/45 stylus is NOT compatible.
The Seeburg system also used a finer needle, but you can usually get away with using the standard LP/45 stylus if it's in good condition, even though the Seeburg records were never intended for consumer use.
I've seen a CZcams post of a Herb Alpert release on 16 2/3. I can't imagine that the sound would be anywhere near as good as the standard LP. One convenient thing is that the longer playing time means a two-record set fits on one disc!
That's the first I've heard of a stylus being that small, a rarity. I've heard of them as small as .6mil, but never smaller than that. Interesting!
From the Wikipedia entry for Chrysler Highway Hi-Fi (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Hi-Fi):
"A proprietary 0.25-mil (i.e., 0.00025" or a quarter of a "thou") stylus was used with an unusually high stylus pressure of two grams to prevent skipping or skating despite normal car vibrations."
Despite these measures, the record-player-for-cars idea was never a great success because they had numerous problems, even the 'generic' systems that used standard 45s. CBS built both the Chrysler systems and their generic replacements.
Little known fact: Motorola got its start building 'automotive' record players - literally, Motor Victrola. And one of the people behind Motorola was none other than William Powell Lear, the man behind the Lear Jet, and who later went on to create the 8-Track tape (though in reality he merely 'improved on' the Muntz Stereo-Pak).
The Seeburg background music system used an 0.5-mil styles. Obviously the typical 0.7-mill LP/45 stylus is not 'ideal' but with low tracking pressures of better-grade consumer equipment, they usually don't have too many problems.
WOW! Thank you! I love little tidbits of stuff like that!
Me too. I love learning the technological history of things we take for granted today. I was inspired by an old show from 1980 called 'Connections', which examines the origins and causes of many things. I was particularly tripped out when I found out why the car is named 'Mercedes', as well as hearing the origin and original application of the IBM punch card.
I watched the same show!
I have a 16rpm 12" album of classical music somewhere........a few beat up hi-way hi fi 7inch discs that go 16rpm too...crazy stuff...your seeburgh disc sounds awesome
Thank you
From hearing it in the store, you would never know that it actually has a very good sound quality!
+bob7872 The sound is surprising, if played with a magnetic cartridge with an elliptical stylus point it's better- not by a whole lot, but it does sound pretty good.
i have a 16rpm from South Africa on MGM E 4003 CONNIE FRANCIS SOUVENIR ALBUM issued in 1967 with 24 sides ,12 on each side. It's the only CF one issued.
3:38 Great tune! What is the name of this composition?
i love these seeburg records, nice to listen to just.
The Fidelity is better than I thought...How long, time-wise is that side?
The fidelity surprised me, too. This record side plays for 33:25, I have a collection of six and the longest plays for 34:52.
something about how slow it turns makes it soo fascinating. kinda like in a dream where you can't run or something similar
Yes- it really does sound fairly good. I'd like to do an audio spectrum analysis of one of these records to see what the frequency response actually is. Quadraphonic LPs had a modulated 50kHz subcarrier for the rear channels, I doubt that a frequency that high could be recorded at 16RPM. Also- this record is mono- could there also be a recording issue with stereo grooves at slow speed?
CD4 system has the problem, that the quadro information was easily destroyed.
So the surviving records has SQ or QS matrix encoded.
At 1950 there were stereo records using two grooves on each side - to combine this with Blumlein stereo had to be the perfect system but they never tried
wonderful.
Amazing
WOW !! Sounds great !! 0_0
I, for one, love this type of music. So, don't mock so of your viewer's taste in music.
Very interesting!!! And this music is 100% better than most current pop.
Yep. And Hee Haw was the best TV show EVER.
I'm speaking from the other side of Jupiter...Sounds great out here! :)
"Nothing is more important to us than your day."
WALL-E
IDK why they didn't just use 7 inch 16 RPM discs with the standard "45" center hole for every application. Albums, singles, and talking books. I've heard that the faster turning discs had higher fidelity. I don't buy that. I've observed that the faster turning discs are prone to having more surface noise, which is what one would reasonably expect.
Wow, it's sounding nice
Hi. I have a 16 rpm record with a recording of my piano professor, who also was a great Cuban composer. I have never been able to play it, and I would like to know if there is any place in the US with technology not only to play it but to transfer to MP3. Your prompt reply will be greatly appreciated.
Connect your phonograph to your computer and record at 33 1/3 RPM using Audacity. In the effects menu of Audacity, reduce speed by 50%. You can now save this audio file as .mp3 (you will need to download the LAME library due to licensing issues).
@@Mark5W8Comer I will certainly try to do it. I am not very good, or completely good with equipments connected to the computer, but I have good friends around that are more than perfect on it. Your answer and help will be appreciated for ever. I will let you know as soon as I get it done. Have a wonderful week-end!
Get an AT-LP120XUSB it can transfer your records to your computer. Furthermore, the pitch slider allows you to set the speed to 33 and a third, move the slider to -50%, and then get a 16 and two thirds speed.
@@seamusmckeon9109 I am not familiar with the AT-LP120XUSB but will find out in the internet. Once I do it, I will let you know in order to thank you once more for all your help!!!!!
That turntable only allows 16% pitch variation. Read the instruction manual, don’t mislead people with false information.
There actually were a few commercial releases at 16RPM, I wonder why it didn't take off, too- double the playing time, but the opportunity for audible wow were probably increased. I wonder how stable the rotational speeds were on those old phonos. Another issue would be high frequency response as well.
I understand it so, that releasing two records as double album or three in a box adds about 25 ¢ for each record.
The only need for very long playing small records was in car stereo, but soon they changed to 8 track tape. And the Philips compact cassette was a portable music format.
Also you could increase playing time by reducing frequencies below 200 Hz, reducing level, so it's easy to get 60 minutes per side and keeping compatibility to the 12" Stereo record standard
Did Jack White(Third Man Records) release an record which rotated very slowly.
You're correct at 0:57 in saying that because these records are audio sounds, they are therefore made for the hearing (persons able to hear). I don't know why they would write "Solely for the use of the blind" especially when this particular record doesn't appear to have braille printing on the label which the blind can read.
0:44- Yes, there's a braille side and a printed side. Printed side is the "A" side.
I wonder how much of the quality is due to the Glaser Steers changer- there's been a lot of comment on the quality of the sound. To top it off, I'm using a cheapo ceramic cart! Maybe obsolete tech is really the best after all!
These were played in special machine in department stores. If you play the whole record it plays for nearly 1 hour on one side! What I heard these records when played produced a special subliminal message inside the music only the subconscious can hear!! They even had special records for the holidays!
You occasionally find the record player on eBay, it's about the size of a microwave oven. The longest playing side in my collection is a little over 34 minutes. The records were provided via a "subscription" service, and were tailored for holidays. When new records were shipped, old ones were to be returned.
Play the beginning of Electric Light Orchestra's "Eldorado" backward if you want to hear a subliminal message...
That music was actually kinda enjoyable! better than the country crap they play in the store I work at
I almost bought a the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) on some of those 16 rpm records with the massive hole. They did come with what looked like a huge 45 adapter.
@beatlesfan464 They loose high frequencies at such a slow speed. I wish everything stayed at 78 rpm simply for the dynamics and frequency response!
They didn't kept 78 rpm because the goal was to improve running time and to improve sound a little bit.
The Maxi Singles give an impression how good a record can sound, when a 12" has 7 minutes music only.
The loss in quality isn't "Half speed - half quality"
1:30 Pico groove. Initially the 16 rpm should be the half of a 33 rpm record, half speed, half groove width. Beside some records for the blind, the Seeburg Mood Music system uses Pico grooves and 16 rpm and can store about 40 minutes on one side of a 9" disc
Stereo stylus is with 18 μm a bit too large for Seeburg but plays it
What's the time duration of this 16rpm LP record ? In india I haven't seen this type of LP of 16rpm. But on my record player by HMV there is an option of speed adjustment of 16.
These discs play for about 30 minutes per side.
@shoprat17 Were the Torah records in Hebrew? That would have been cool. I have the New Testament and parts of the Old Testament (Psalms alone would have been 50 records?) on 7" 16rpm, some of them have the 1 1/2" adaptor built into the record. They're also real thin, but not like the FlexiDiscs.
The quality is actually pretty good for a 16RPM. Perfect for homes that didn't really care about Hi-Fi, just long-lasting music. Funny it never really took off in the consumer market. Seems like a money saver to me.
From what I heard, with 16 2/3 rmp, frequency matters. Why hi-fi music was no less than 33 1/3.
16 rpm records are back
@Mark5W8Comer Not sure But judging that the case label was in English I would assume the contents of the records were also English.
Ah yes, u have a point there. Stereo is essentially 2 channels which create a third by combining them. It might degrade the quality by 2. Although we'd probably not notice it as much with analog lines than digital. A modulated subcarrier at 50KHz.. fascinating! I wonder why. Maybe it's a form of dithering. I must admit though, that is a LOT of data for such slow resolutions. You'd have to make the vinyl 50" big! lol What utterly sublime technology. It has such a characteristic absent in digital
do you know where i can get a 16 rpm record ?
I love Seeburg records. I must have 200 of them.
WOW! Having a collection of those specific records justifies buying the special phono system to play them. 200? AMAZING!
@@Mark5W8Comer I have 2 Seeburg 1000 machines.
That soft easy-listening is so soothing.
Linguaphone language courses & some Readers Digest courses used 16 rpm discs.
I never played a 16 2/3 record. That sounds cool.
So people would feel comfortable and content while shopping therefore spending more time in the store. It’s much better than most of the “stuff” heard these days.
can you play the whole record?
gorgeous tone though I wish 16 had been kept
Wow and flutter is an issue, but this is the same as recording tape at slow speed- limited dynamic range, reduced frequency response. Noise is less due to low groove velocity but the music will suffer especially toward the inner wraps of the spiral.
a.m 880 kixi plays this kind of music and it sounds better than to day, it's in the mercer island Seattle Washington. If you want to listen to the online radio google am 880 kixi streaming live or if like the station down load kixi app 4 free.
Is the record player tube or solid state?
This record changer came from a Philco console with tubes.
BUT! In this video, the cartridge output is plugged into a cheezy transistor phono preamp from Radio Shack, the output from the preamp was then fed into the audio inputs of a computer for recording.
So, history says "tube," but the video says "solid state."
Just the regular .7mil tip, a 1mil should do fine- these aren't stereo. The groove really isn't smaller than the normal LP groove, just the reduction in speed is what makes the playing time so long. At 33 1/3, this would play for 8 minutes.
The initial concept of 16 rpm mend half the speed and half the groove width.
For the transition they did micro groove 16 rpm
Yes, if you were ever in a department store- or office complex- in the 1960's, you would have heard this kind of music coming out of the wall speakers above you...Seeburg had different tiers of "Light" and "Industrial" background music packages [along with the player], tailored for various businesses....
"Mr. Alphonse, I MUST talk to you!"
"What are you doing here, Genevieve? I told you to stay in the secretarial pool until I called for you..."
"It's about your wife....SHE KNOWS."
Anyone know the name of this song?
AJ
Not a clue- but "Spoonful of Sugar" from Mary Poppins is somewhere on one of the discs, so apparently the discs are probably from 1964.
perfect for playing the alvin and the chipmunks album
Just realised this tune is used in the shinning 😝🤘😈
Are you thinking of "Midnight, The Stars and You"?
+Steve M yes I am lol
I have 16rpm Audio Bible records and 4 speed Murphy Turntable... I would like to buy the audio book adaptor ( centre piece)..could you please help me..
I have no idea where you would get those adaptors. Some of my Audio Bible records have them (and they've been "welded" into the hole...) and some don't. Whether this is a separate piece that you can find I don't know.
This song was fucking banging lol I want it
@Vinylrecordsneverdie When Microsoft puts you on hold you get Sitar and Tabla music...
imagine what it would sound like on 78....
Better than I expected, but not so much.
Betamax Flippy The Seeburg system for which these records were made was mainly for department store music, or "elevator soundtracks". Not audiophile quality, but surprisingly good for what it is- and better than I expected, too.
I know I love the music.
16RPM were mostly records with speeches, lectures, etc. They were not used for music. They existed in the 1950's.
that doesnt sound bad at all,i would assume 16rpm would allow lots of wow and flutter but i didnt hear
much if any?can you imagine a ktel album at 16rpm,the way they jammed 16 cuts on a side at 33,i wonder how many would fit at 16rpm? odd the speed never caught on
When I speed up, it sound less lullaby-