Are election results worst of all worlds for Tories?
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- The Conservatives are facing their worst local election results in 40 years - and yet it looks like Rishi Sunak may cling on after Ben Houchen secured a victory in the Tees Valley mayoral vote. But what next for the Conservative Party?
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Are they now in the worst of all worlds with a wounded leader facing defeat at the general election or can Rishi Sunak turn it around?
To discuss all this and more we are joined by Spectator editor Fraser Nelson, former Conservative Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng and Labour’s Leader in the House of Lords Baroness Angela Smith.
Produced by Silvia Maresca, Calum Fraser, Rob Thomson, Nick Jackson.
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I don't think it matters who the Tory leader is. It's not Sunak that we're sick of, it's the whole party.
Endless seesawing between Tory and Labour administrations and their empty ejection pledges has got a lot of people feeling disillusioned and disengaged from actually voting
Spot on
Totally agree.
People don't buy dresses to see the designer who made them, but the models who are wearing them. 😊
yep, they desperate try to put all blame on Sunak. In reality Tory party as a whole is rotten. There are more crooks, creeps and nrcissistic idiots than decent common-sense people.
The Tories got a kicking nothing less than they deserve, the people want a general election now.
But Sunak won’t call one because he’s a shot house
@@chriswalsh2604 hes scared
@@chriswalsh2604 *Conservatives* got a kicking. The other Tory party did fine
@@oojimmyflip he's frit.
Sunak has thrown local Tories under the bus in the vain hope there might be a recovery for the national Tories in the next few months. There won't be a recovery. Continuing the nonsense like Rwanda is just making the electorate angrier.
Why are we still watching this man on tv wen he recked the uk getting more money for failure
Exactly what I thought. His opinion is worth nothing and I’m not going to waste time listening to his waffle.
Because the UK Political system is broken and favours crooks!
*When
*Wrecked
@@thejdemonwhy do you care about their grammar? It's their opinion that matters. Their comment was perfectly coherent.
My brother who suffers acutely with both dyslexia and ADHD really struggles with grammar, but it's the constant pedantry of people like you who stop him from commenting in these forums. He got sick of trying to make some extremely good points in these forums to only be ignored because some petty tyrant pedant thinks that grammar policing is more important than his very sound and usually intelligent opinions
It's the revolving door!
He's part of the establishment so no matter how much he cocked up he will never struggle for an overpaid earn!
Look at Anne widecombe, she's been irrelevant for over two decades with her backwards ideology based in bronze age philosophy. Yet still she tops up her political pension with TV appearances spouting her vile hate
First time I've seen Kwasi pop up since his budget.
He was sniffing around a few weeks ago on the same program. He shouldn't even be on TV the useless 🤡
He has popped up a lot and rather sickeningly he speaks a lot of sense and I cannot understand why he did what he did.
@@nicholasdickens2801 Either it wasn't his choice and he was Liz's scapegoat or he was completely delusional and learnt the hard way.
Really don’t need to see him too often unless he says I am so very very sorry 😂
@@nicholasdickens2801 He made loads of money, shorting the pound for his friends. That, or he's just an idiot. Which is it.
What gives a good god dam what Kwasi Kwarteng thinks or says. The man is demonstrably useless and a prime example of how the Tories are scaping the barrel of candidates. All you need to do is look at what this group of people, who wouldn't last 5 minutes in a real job, have done to our country. Why are they being put on shows and where is the voice of the opposition on here.
It’s mad how someone can do such a bad job and still get booked to give his opinion on national tv. And we’re told MP’s need to be paid well to attract the best talent
When Kwarteng says a new leader wouldn’t have a mandate, either nationally or within the party. What kind of mandate does he think Sunak has. Properly mental
@@jamiec4000 Kwarteng, Truss and the think tank who wrote their budget get a lot of air time between them and I don't understand why.
I did enjoy the fact that both of Katie Price's books outsold Truss's launch week sales in their launch week. People would rather read something by a bimbo than a moron
Sunak and Suella are disgraces, they both should get out of uk politics .
Absolutely. Two nasty divisive hypocrites and hatemongers.
So, you are on first name terms with Braverman eh? Tell us more.
@@rrbh your card is expired please contact your card issuer
And boris, cameron, gove, raab, and anyone who voted for brexit!
Who else cringed when Kwasi said the words "the numbers"? A man who knows nothing about numbers. As for the guy from the Spectator..... they always gloss over the disgraceful liar Johnson's misdemeanors.
He should be in prison along with all the other corrupt Tories.
The Spunktater is all about free markets and laissez-faire, but when they were going to be taken over they got the government to block it.
@@tobyalan8874 Michelle Mone.
The Spectator. An honest analysis? Really? Who owns this rag?
Every time that man talks all I hear is white noise so totally missed that
So two hard-line Tories and one Labour peer. Nothing like a balanced panel. Nothing like.
Completely balanced considering channel 4 is left wing too
Channel 4 news is the Guardian on Air
@@toysntings4087 No, they are centre right, idiot, there has never been any leftwing media or politics on this country, except during WWII when we had a leftwing coalition, because when it actually matters you need people who are acting out of partiotism, not right-wing greed and stupidity.
@@silondon9010 The guardian being opely run by GCHQ and MI5 since the 90s.
@@silondon9010Que?
Who has less shame? Kwasi for showing his face without any apology (like nothing ever happened), or Channel 4 for attempting to relegitimise him. The man should be done in politics and power
Surely what ever Kwasi says anyone would do the opposite??
Advice from his advice I dont need lol.
C4 did not make rishi put him in charge, idiot.
What is Fraser Nelson talking about? "Labour got 43%, Boris Johnson almost got almost 50%." No he didn't, Johnson got 43.6%.
For God’s sake Sunak…just go!
Rishi is a new type of superglue?
@@dianamincher6479 Don't sniff that glue, I dread to think what you would see!
@@thevikingwarrior A vision of the Santa Monica skyline.
ein Beitrag des Sonnabendes, 4. Mai 2024
Is Rishi Sunak, a Brahman of the Hindu religion?
There can NEVER be >= 1 "God"!
"May the Force be with you!"
What this country needs now, is proportional representation. If the constant choice is a to and fro between bread and slightly staler bread, then it’s long before time for _real_ democracy. It needs to be changed to _truly_ represent the voting choices of the people.
Yes, please! The British First Past the Post system is disastrous for democracy, and yet most of its former empire uses it. I'm not British, but I want that change to happen to spur on a wave a election reforms around the world, including in my country. FPtP is outdated and broken and needs to be done away with, the UK electorate can lead that charge.
Too bad labour arent interested
PR - a way to totally Destroy the country -- and voted against by the sensible people -- PR is government by small minorities that hold the balance -- craziy communists like the greens (or imagine the dup controlling power , the other way)----- You also end up virtually never chnging the government like germany -- or every 2 minutes like italy ---- PR destroys democacy and puts you at the mercy of the crazies..
Labour don't want that. They're happy with this farce sham of political system
Be very careful. The last thing you want is the party, rather than the voters, choosing which politicians the proportional vote will elect.
It's essential we keep the requirement for individuals to be elected by their local voters.
CRAZY QUARTENG SENT MY MORTGAGE UP X 4 WHAT ON EARTH HAVE CHANNEL 4 OF ALL STATIONS
Kwazi is too cool and dangerous!
Yes but it helped savers. Think of them.
Lol the "savers"'s savings lost about 20% of it's value overnight 😂😂
Should be in jail.
It was actually Sunak. They used Truss to wreck the economy so American asset managers can buy up more UK property. It's Sunak who's tight with the IEA and the corps funding them, not Truss.
The leadership election was just theatre to achieve that end.
Conservatives are not talking about building houses, or investing in this country. It's all about Rwanda....
Why are disgraced politicians constantly given airtime?
Greens, Channel 4. Greens! You had on Tice, now Quazi & The Spectator. I switched off TV tonight when you put on reheated UKIP for no good reason, now i'm switching off this warped panel that out-fashes even BBCQT! WTAF?!
I vote Green but the current leadership is weirdly abysmal.
They're not going to do nearly as well as they should, that's always been the case to some extent but now is their best and opportunity for a long time. And they're totally gonna blow it, again.
Why is Kwasi on there?
Probably got nothing else to do after trying to ruin the economy
Because they couldnt find any real talent.
DEI (Diversity Equity and Inclusion) in action.
PS. diversity isn't bad but not the same as bundled it on behalf of political correctness. That is twisted
@@ssuwandi3240
Rubbish he won the vote from the Tory membership. This simple truth the Tories as a whole are useless.
He should have an electronic tag on his ankle and 50 years in prison 😊👍
It makes no difference who leads the Tories into the Valley of Death.😂
Listening to this makes me think we should jail them all.
No, jail the post office lot over the sub post masters scandal.
They play games and we pay for their mistakes.
Odd to invite Kwasi to this debate. I'm not sure anyone would trust his judgement considering he trashed the economy with the help of a prime minister who was overshadowed by an iceberg lettuce.
££££ And don't forget "‘He’s a great guy’: Kwasi Kwarteng told fake firm he could introduce them to Boris Johnson." (Guardian article). ££££
Delirious!
Nearly?! Definitely!
The only thing odder is that they still think there is hope for the Conservatives.
His reputation is far less damaged than most tories or brexitards.
Don't see difference between labour and Tories
I votes Labour most of my life but I can't seem to bring myself but voting for them this time around (defo not voting for the Tories)
Paid liars.
No two paryties copuld be any more different.
The tories and reform are identical, that is why the lies about labour keep popping up from you dreggs of society.
Well. You are a tory then.
Huge difference. For a start, most labour MPs aren't crooks. Think Michelle Mone.
Disappointed Tory. We are getting them out. Not another 5 years. And they have the guts to think that they can continue with their disaster and unable to control migrants keep coming across the channel daily
having another unelected leader or prime miniature is not acceptable, an election must be held.
The annoying thing is, we know the nation want a General Election yet it's down to the whim of one person.
To the people who think ‘Asians’ voted for khan:
All asians are not people from ‘isl*m’.. people from India, Srilanka, and other non-isl*mic countries vote for tories if you don’t know.. The people who come here on a mission to make this an isl*mic state mostly vote for labour. Asia is not a country, it’s a continent just for convenience to refer in text books..
Kwasiiiiiii…PLEASE DONT LOOK AT ANY NUMBERS
When Kwarteng is the one being more honest and insightful about Starmer you know the rest are talking rubbish.
How on earth can you ask the former chancellor for his opinion on anything
Rishi needs to just call an election now. The longer he clings on at no.10. It just looks desperate and embarrassing.
He knows he has little chance, every PM in his position has gone to the last moment.
Superglue Rishi is wobbling toward as long as it takes!
Is he your mate? Why are you calling him' Rishi' - very chummy of you.
@@rrbh that's his name.
@@alzo1sgood - Do you call all politicians by their first names, or do you make an exception for these media darlings ?
The Tories are done and they know it.
I would like to see a party other than Conservative and Labour win. Change for the better. Break the mold.
Unfortunately, the UK is in decline and the poor will pay the price.
It's quite revealing watching Tories discuss what's best for "the party" whilst the country falls to pieces. I hope everybody remembers this in the years to come.
They allowed the brexit referendum to save the party.
Sunak will not change anything. Keep him until General Election until Tories become ashes . Well done Labour 😅
Kwasi seems so resonable and sober, not like how I imagined, completely different from Truss
You can't be a Conservative party in a country that hasn't got anything left to conserve.
Yeah, it would look bad having six Conservative PM's, and five, and four, and thr.......... Etcetera..
How the flip can he claim that "the Tories didn't do quite as badly as they thought." ???
They forecast they were going to lose 400 seats, they actually lost 20% MORE than that.
They got absolutely hammered in Blackpool.
They lost all but one of the regional mayorships.
All Labour gains.
We really are living in a "post truth" age aren't we.
Why didn’t the bring Liz Truss on ? Might as well
They'd be utterly crazy to change leaders again.
_So Sunak's safe?_
I didn't say that.
Do it, it would be funny.
more time = more by elections to lose
If the Country wants real change Ditch the 3 main parties and vote for independent MP'S. The electorate needs their heads examined, madness is repeating the same choices and expecting different outcomes.
there's always a hope of something better....but i think similar to the idea of kicking out our current speaker of the house, it ignores the fact that numerous previous votes did NOT produce anyone good...why would going through the same pile of laundry result in anything better...if anything the new pick will just be worse and more crazy. the pool isn't different and the criteria wouldn't have changed either... at some point you can't keep rummaging through the hamper. you have to do the laundry.
Sunak is the only person that thinks it would be ridiculous he's done none of his promises so therefore he should go
At this point changing leaders is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The longer they wait for the GE, the lower the ship sits in the water. They may well hit another iceberg or three before November.
@@thecheesefactor Hear that and he'll still be on a good wage anyway but I'd get Sadiq out as well personally
Kwasi ‘it would look ridiculous having a 6th PM’
So 5 is the limit then? 😂 oh and Kwasi we don’t want another ‘Fiscal event’
The underlying problem with the likes of UKIP, reform independents, the SNP and to a lesser extent Galloway's party is there are no viable alternatives in Westeminster.
The 'disruption' is an artefact of the First Past the Post system that erodes choice and representation.
If people can't vote for the party that represents them they will vote tactically or a protest vote perhaps better described as 'vindictive'.
It is time Labour and Tories recognise the urgent need for proportional representation and a fully elected upper house.
All this talk of 'reaching out' to different groups when neither Labour nor Tories really represent huge sections of society is disingenuous, deceptive and worse actively discouraging participation.
The bottom 3 income decile groups are not represented, those concerned about climate change, 80% plus, are not represented, those concerned about Gaza are not represented (beyond how to better communicate, hindwink?, them), those concerned about privatisation of public services transport, energy and water are not represented.
Given the annoyance with the Labour Party and the fact 30% don't bother to vote it seems 50, 60 perhaps 70 % of people don't feel represented.
People are still paying twice as much for their energy while energy companies make 62 Billion profit and the cost of living support has quietly disappeared.
We are now seeing disabled people becoming the target of Austerity 2.0.
People don't want lies, distraction and manipulation: they want a government that acts on delivering people's needs and holding greed and corruption to account.
But it suits both parties so we just stagger on. Only a turnout of Less than 10% ideally or 30% according to your figures can solve this. Staying at home is the only way.
"are reform a.good.thimg"?
No.
Thanks for posting
Kwasi the absolute 🔔 end 😂😂😂
The Tory Kwarteng is wrong! The LP woman is right. Starmer has traditional virtues of seriousness, moderation, respect, decency and with a total commitment to the working people of this country. These qualities are something no Tory would recognise. His moderate centrist decenct respectable demeanor may not be very exciting but will always be something better than any Tory can offer.
Delusion off the charts with Kwarteng 😂😂😂
How on earth can the Tories do worse unless they lost all seats
Not calling a general election is ridiculous
He got to go
A case of Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Rishi really boxed himself into a corner there...
I think corbyn was way more trustworthy and looking out for the people than starmer, who reminds me of a shady used car salesman.
The most idiotic thing the Tories did was to remove Johnson from office over something absolutely a minor issue that no one really freaking cared about; and after that getting such uninspiring leaders to the same office
Lol
What does it say about this panel when Kwasi is the only person to point out the ridiculousness of calling Starmer “a man of principles” as opposed to Corbin 😂?! The characterisation was right - he’s a nimble politician, just like what the rest of the political class are hoping to be. Quite hopeless for the voters I fear….
Tories made the Tories impossible to vote for. Biden is up for it next!
Muslim votes are so biased towards things going on in other countries, they haven't got an interest what happens in england
Don't you mean the UK?
@@gadfly1 it seems to be english town Muslims that have a strangle hold on votes over middle east politics
Perhaps muslim voters genuinly want a labour party not a centre right party named labour.The non. Muslim public would do well to demand higher standards instead of accepting poor policy like beggers .if a restaurant is serving heinz spaggetti when it used to serve italian cuisine its not the same place no matter what the sign says on the door.W eve gone from clement atlèe to keir and mandy.get some standards.labours not ready for power.
Well it's their vote they can use it for whatever reason. At least they are working out a way round our antiquated fptp system unlike reform who are not clever enough. The lib dems could get half reforms votes and 50 seats.
Local Elections have to be about local issues!
Loved it when they made people show Id to vote but it stopped their own votes for voting for them😂😂😂
How bad is this
You let Kwarteng, destroyer of worlds, into your studio? You’re lucky the place didn’t catch fire! Were there really no more credible guests available?!
If Rushi Sunak stopped working for WEF and UN and concentrate on United Kingdom he might be doing better in the polls. WEF AND UN mass immigration policy he followed, Rwanda plan Sunak never wanted Suella forced it on him and he sacked her. (ALARM BELLS )
You are Ben Habib AICMFP.
I really hope we do end up with a left wing Reform. We need a group to remind Labour that they're supposed to represent the working class.
Looks like we've got one. Cometh the hour cometh the cat !
@@sfactory8253 I have no idea what you mean by that?
@@TheSlinq George Galloway both man and can be a cat !
The Tories are doomed. They might as well put a koala in a suit in charge, it won't matter
Was about to watch this then saw Kwasi, no thanks
Great results for Independents...All 107 Councils declared...276 Independent and Resident Association Cllrs...up 104 or + 60%. A Labour majority is not inevitable.
It was mad to appoint him as P.M in the first place...well at least to some, but i think it was a really good thing, as he has definitely been instrumental in destroying the Cons / tory party so the longer he stays the better...
Kwarteng should play Darth Vader with that voice.
This kwasi was in Led by Donkeys episode isn’t?
obvious r*cism, too. . .
Outraged by the airbrushing out of Liberal Democrats in this debate. This is a huge lack of balance from C4. We expect more from this respected news provider. Covering the Reform threat, only, is greatly disresrespectful to the hardworking activists canvassing all over the country!!!
Excellent presentation. Get someone to redo the set. Stacks of books on side tables? Ridiculous.
Depends how you look at it, do you want a hammering defeat, or just a defeat! Yes any defeat, is a disaster for a Party, but you can minimise the defeat, and elevate the party to become a serious contender!!
I’m not a Labour voter, but to focus on Labour’s attitude to Gaza and theirs alone when (a) they aren’t in power, and (b) the Tories are much more stridently pro-Israel, just shows the bias deep in our minds that, somehow, the Left have to account for the minutiae of their positions on geopolitics whereas the Right can be as gung-ho as they like.
Also, if it turns out that Labour voters go to the Greens (or others) because of Gaza, and splitting of the progressive vote leads to loss of seats, then perhaps Labour minds will see the benefits of electoral reform, where IT DOESN’T MATTER because you will still have a majority progressive bloc in Parliament that can agree on policies and even a programme of government that are genuinely good for this country and for the wider world.
Conservatives caught between the rock and the hard place.
If the tories want to lose insanely badly then they should oust Rishi Sunak
That ship sailed a long time ago
Agreed, I want the Tories out as much as the next person.
And yet Sunak is the only person they have that I might ever consider voting for.
Get rid of him and they are done.
Not stopping the Boats has decimated the Tory vote ❎
@@silondon9010 nah I'm pretty sure it was a mix of 14 years of austerity/underinvestment, party gate, liz truss, the entire Rwanda scheme, Brexit & constant scandals
The bigger issue is Reform. They are taking votes away and the longer the Tories delay the GE, the more votes they will lose to Tory Party 2.0.
Why is cookie monster allowed to spout his opinion??
If anyone else messed up as badly as he did he would not be allowed to speak in a pub or any public park again!!!
Sorry Channel 4. I ain’t watching anything with Kwarteng.
Its basically a choice between the same parties that fundamentally pursue similar polices & are not significantly all that different anymore. We no-longer vote for the best party , we vote for the best of a bad bunch. . . . . it still leaves us with 'bad'🤦♂
Sunak - dead man walking.
In 2019 Johnson was less popular than May was in 2017, he only won because people were tired of the brexit shambles and wanted it sorted and for some bizarre reason believed that he would do just that. In addition he was facing Corbyn who was very unpopular and who people believed would make a mess of running the country. So Johnson was never popular and is likely to be even more unpopular now.
Oh plz try to get rid of ol’ Rancid Rishi, just for the laugh ! 😂It can’t get any worse so come on give it a go think of the endless drama on the news. As a political junkie I’d love it 😂
Sunak needs to go, Its the same story with the tories always going after the poor and disabled whilst the tax dodging businesses get left alone.
Dont tell me you are giving back to the poorest when in real life you are giving with one hand and taking with the other.
Fishy needs to just call an election now. He was delusional enough to think that sending one failed asylum seeker to Rwanda with 3k just before the local election would save his party 😂🤦♂️
The longer he waits the worse it will get so patience is a virtue in this case.
Why is kwasi there! That man should have been shamed out of public life forever!
No. It would be mad NOT to bin him. Hes a liability.
Sunak is roundly detested in thr country. Keeping the runt is suicide.
Tories lost the respect of voters.
Croydon ... or ... Runanda?
° A difficult question!
Might he be replaced by somebody better? The bar being that low, it is always an option that they'll find somebody better, but by the same token, the barrel of talents has lost its bottom, so there might be somebody worse round the corner.
Sunak should go, and it would be the best thing since Chocolate
Why is no one talking about Scotland, and the fact that the breakdown of the SNP - in similar fashion to the Tories actually - is what's going to hand this GE to Labour.
That and the rise of Reform. Reform won't win seats, but the Tories are bleeding significant numbers of votes to them.
The SNP leader was suspected of embezzlement. Probably should be in jail.
If you accept you can't win, then surely waiting for things to get better can work both ways. And if things get worse, what does that look like? The sooner the Tories call an election, the sooner there will be another election. Yes, things will be bad if they went in June or July but probably survivable. It seems risky to hold on for the party.
Kwasi and numbers is not a match made in heaven.
No election now. You can’t have it both ways. In Westminster system the voter chooses the party. The people for some reason overwhelmingly backed that party. Nothing changed they’ve always been for the 1% since 1979. So they can live within the rules of when to call an election. The people should think harder who they vote for. Inconvenient truth.
After such a landslide loss of 400+ seats, Rishi not resign would be truly ridiculous and shameless.
A pal of yours? You talk about this multi-millionaire on first-name terms.
Local Elections should have nothing to do, with national gouvernments!
Keeping him there will be madder
I can handle this cast for about 3mins they all make me sick
Yes, but the best of all worlds for BRITAIN!
Replacing Rishi Sunak could reduce Conservative MP P45 from 300 down to 260, better than a total wipeouts at 300+P45. Like Cheese Rishi Sunak is Paneer only for Cooking compared to British people Cheddar cheese. Replacing Sunak will prevent a total Conservative wipeouts
Why are we still listening to Kwarteng? Memories are short it would seem.
Kwasi Kwasi is one of the causes of torie's implosion
Tories pretending it's not that bad. They know they are finished.