Logan Paul's Mistakes Are Worse Than We Thought | LAWYER EXPLAINS
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
- In this video we follow up on some of the legal mistakes that arose in the controversy between Logan Paul and Coffeezilla--particularly, as they relate to new information that came out regarding "Developer Z," who Logan Paul outed as Zach Kelling.
See our first video on this! • Logan Paul's Legal Mis...
SomeOrdinaryGamers' Video "Logan Paul's Terrible Response": • Logan Paul's Terrible ...
CONTEXT:
After Coffeezilla exposed Sam Bankman-Fried and the collapse of FTX, as well as Andrew Tate's "Hustler Club," he turned his sights on Logan Paul's crypto NFT project, Cryptozoo. See his videos below:
Investigating Logan Paul's Biggest Crypto Scam: • Investigating Logan Pa...
The Biggest Fraud in Logan Paul's Scam: • The Biggest Fraud in L...
Ending Logan Paul's Biggest Scam: • Ending Logan Paul's Bi...
In response, Logan Paul posted a short video to his main channel, Logan Paul, in which he threatened Coffeezilla with a defamation lawsuit. He followed this with an episode of his podcast, Impaulsive, where he repeated the same threat. He has since taken down both videos and reached out to Coffeezilla to inform him that he's no longer pursuing litigation--but he still may have opened himself up to liability along the way, nonetheless.
TIME STAMPS:
0:00 Introduction
0:54 Background & New Information
2:06 Zach Kelling's Facebook Post
4:07 Logan's Three Main Claims
5:22 Claim No. 1: Stole / Held the Code Hostage
10:33 Claim No. 2: Three vs. Thirty Developers
13:21 Claim No. 3: Felony Conviction for Armed Robbery of a Liquor Store
13:54 Expungement (in Kansas)
20:39 Is It Defamation?
23:01 What Do YOU Think?
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#LoganPaul #Coffeezilla #CryptoZoo
In this video we follow up on some of the legal mistakes that arose in the controversy between Logan Paul and Coffeezilla--particularly, as they relate to new information that came out regarding "Developer Z," who Logan Paul outed as Zach Kelling. What do you think? Does Logan have some things to worry about here?
I think it’s likely that due to Logan having taken down his response video (I think his episode of impulsive is still up) and issued an apology that he likely received legal notice already.
I'm betting Logan is more concerned about the incoming federal charges relating to the wire fraud he's being investigated for.
Im wondering about the expungement issue: The police chief clearly got the sensitive records himself or by his orders, and shared it. I thought the criminal act was sharing the expunged info you shouldn't have accessed. If he got the info before the expungement (say to dig up dirt on colleagues) or it was just a Internet rumor he shared (and he faked the docket), would that clear it, as he had no idea it was expunged? Also, would the words "was convicted of" as opposed to "is a convicted felon" have saved him?
Thanks for a great channel!
He and Andrew tate and other scammers tell people you are in matrix and for escaping from matrix join us give your money to us then we tell you how you escape. Andrew tate has a academy which he says he teach people to become millionaire and escape matrix and when you join you gain nothing🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 logan made fake Pokemon and cryptozoo to steal people money😂😂 still people support them
@@Saeid415 you can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time you can't fool all of the people all of the time ;)
Imagine going to Wal-Mart. Filling up your cart, going to the checkout and refusing to pay, then claiming Wal-Mart was holding your cart "hostage" because they wouldn't let you leave the store with it.
Hahaha right!
Awesome!
And they only have like 3 employees. (that you saw)
Love how simple to made it. Hope you are a teacher... everyone would understand and the class.
Hey, I never signed a contract agreeing to pay Wal-Mart for the stuff in my cart! 😏😏😏
here's a theory: since Zach stated himself that he openly discusses his history with investors and colleagues, I could find it well within the realm of possibility that he honestly discussed it with Logan upon hiring and then Logan turned around and used it against him with additional falsities added.
Oh wow, that sounds very possible and so scummy.
He also could've lied about his own criminal history. A lot of people I've met over the years have always embellished run-ins with the law. All in the course of seeming 'harder' than they really are. Zach could've very well told Paul that he robbed that store at gunpoint. We'll never know, but I can sure as hell see him being intimidated by Paul's success if not his boxing skills and doing it.
@@Drebin2293 I don't see how Logan would find this out otherwise given that the record was EXPUNGED. Logan isn't the sharpest tool in the shed (since he's making these allegations) so I doubt he could find it out on his own. 99% chance Zach told him.
@@Drebin2293 nobody’s intimidate by Logan Paul. His boxing is likely as fake as the rest of him.
There is definitely an issue of privileged information here. Especially if he is in California. Even if he disclosed the information with Logan, there is an expectation of privacy because Logan is this person's employer.
I wish Logan luck trying to argue that Zack was "holding the code hostage" to a jury. I have a hard time believing that without any sort of contract saying Zack had to act otherwise, withholding any completed work because the other guy didn't pay you is going to make Zack sound like a hero to any average person
Yeah Logan can't prove Z was "holding the code hostage" because the contract wasn't written & maybe L had to pay in 2022.
But by the same token, Z can't prove Logan defamed because maybe Logan only had to pay in 2077. In which case Z taking control of the code & being like "$$$$ in 2023 or the code doesn't make it" is indeed "holding the code hostage"
@@alwaysdisputin9930 is generally considered poor form to commit perjury in court though. There will usually be some corroborating evidence for one of the party's claim to the timeline.
Verbal contacts are still contacts, they're still harder to prove and there are parameters that the court will check on to see if it constitutes a legal verbal contract (or otherwise)
@@Harbo23 plus if there were MOTM (as their agreements were apparently just verbal), it could really back their claims. My father had a contractor work for us where they had a verbal agreement that each day beyond the project's deadline would have them fined 10k until the project was finished, and they only had an MOTM to back up the agreement and it worked in their favor.
@@hjf3022 yeah like no1 wud agree to only get paid in 2077.
It's so bizarre that anyone could look at a room of 3 developers working on a project and think that's literally everyone who has worked on the project. Especially post-covid.
Don’t you work with your entire teams constantly in the same room as you? Lol.
@@terriplays1726 It's called "home Office"
It's not that bizarre when you remember he probably knows he's lying, and like 80% of his audience is dumbass kids
Nope pretty sure thats what Teams is for. Especially for software developers lol.
Expecting anything out of logan paul in the intelligence department is your first mistake.
It doesn't much surprise me that Logan Paul would be the type of person to do this sort of thing. What does surprise me is that people willingly follow him.
I'm surprised people still willingly follow him after the whole forest incident. That there should have proved what type of person he truly is and should ruined his career but hey kids be stupid and thats his primary audience. Also youtube be a greedy corporation who saw he brought in alot of money so they just slapped him on the wrist
Morons are always looking for someone to be their leader.
@@hanakoisbestgirl4752 I am of the opinion that the melting pot of reality tv shows and celebrating stupidity has resulted in the glorification of people like Logan. While charlatans have always been glorified to some degree I believe the Internet has taken it to the next level. Well that and poor parenting and education.
Logan paul needs some legal karma and i hope it comes his way.
Kids. Literally his followers are thousands of kids.
If I ever end up in a legal battle in the USA, I really hope that I got this lady in my corner.
You should also hope it's against Logan Paul. Seems like he's out here giving freebies
Retain her
I hope I get logan paul as my lawyer to see how many charges he can place onto himself lol. I prob can get away with a crime cause the court will just go after him instead lol
@@GameHunterDeathhunter You're sounding a lot like John Wayne Gacy 🤡 but you're no clown, so you're definitely going down with Logan if you're with Logan. LOL!
@@GameHunterDeathhunter I see a meme potential here.
Whether Logan is the mastermind behind the scam or not, the way he digs himself into a hole makes him an incredible asset to have
Every scheme needs a good fall guy.
Free grave for everyone!
If someone needs a professional excavator, I guess they can call Logan.
@@theonlyonewithgum1452 whats funnier about this is most of theses "scheme" are his he's literally his own fall guy
I think the photoshopping of Zak in an orange jumpsuit should also be weighed in to the defamation claim. Correct?
I didn't notice that but definitely trying to wreck his life with malice.
Goodness, Logan really loved photoshopping jpegs! Haha
not that i want to defend Logan Paul in any way, in fact i want the opposite, but this can be argued that the photoshopped image in question was also brought on to screen while saying "a fondness for orange jumpsuits" so it was used only as a visual aid and it would be a struggle to prove which is correct for such a minor detail in a case with so much evidence that proves it much easier
@Kosmic_Kamui uhhh no its pretty much accepted the look they made was trying to say it was a photo of Zack in prison. Which is defamitory and 1000% with malice. Any lawyer worth anything could prove this. Cause you dont just happen to find an exact copy of same pic of guy in blue shirt YOU JUST SHOWED then show a orange jumpsuit photoshopped version w/o malice
@@captaintoyota3171 let's go Z! Take him all the way to bank!
Meanwhile Coffeezilla has kept quiet, letting Paul just bury himself deeper and deeper.... that $10M studio might just get a hefty boost from Paul...
LP is the gift that keeps giving. Dude did it to himself
*Holds breath for actual hovering Lambo*
“never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”
Favorite part of the video was watching the dog try to figure out if it wanted to be on the couch or not
Glad it wasn’t just me! So adorable!
i scrolled for your comment. 😊
Personally, I think the most telling reason that Logan removed the 7 minute "response" video to Coffeezilla but not his podcast where he re-iterates many of the same falsehoods is directly related to Logan's defaming Zach Kelling.
Logan's 3rd response was done via Twitter, on his phone, over the course of 2 minutes, thus reaching a tiny sliver of the audience that would have seen his podcast or watch his main channel on youtube. If apologizing to Coffeezilla or making the victims of his crypto-scam, whole, were the primary purpose of the video then he should have put just as much effort into that video as he did his 7 minute temper tantrum.
The main difference between the response video and the podcast is the specificity Logan went to in trying to discredit Zach Kelling as a reputable source of information. He used a photoshopped picture of a jump-suit on Zach to infer Zach is some active criminal. He showed that expunged conviction record as well as the clearly cherry-picked pictures to support that "3 developer only" narrative.
None of those actionable defamation claims existed in the podcast.
Logan's legal team must have noticed Logan opened himself to very clear defamation and *that's* the reason that 7 minute video was removed so quickly. Logan said he spent "days" working on that response. Him later saying it was "rash" is directly contradictory to what he said in the podcast. One doesn't "rashly" work on a script, get professionally made graphics and sound editing done. And I don't believe for 1 second that negative internet reactions and comments would have swayed him to do anything. Dude went through all of that before with the Dink Doink scam and many of his other controversial moments yet those media sources stayed up and with rarely an apology.
I think there would be an argument that "Stole the code" was defamatory. It is a factual claim of theft. When there was no written contract AND he hadn't paid for any of it. There would be no basis for Logan to be able to claim ownership of the code at that point and therefor it couldn't have been "stolen" from him. Heck, even if it was written down, if he hadn't followed through on his end of the contract then he still wouldn't be able to claim ownership.
I always liked the analogy of an artist doing a commission. You do not own that commission until the creator is paid.
Yes, Stealing and holding hostage clearly indicates criminal behaviour. Not providing code for which no contract was signed and no money was paid is clearly not criminal behaviour, just common sense.
That's what defamation laws are supposed to protect against. A person's professional reputation could be seriously harmed by those kinds of accusations.
You could easily argue that withholding the code is industrial action as he hasn't been properly compensated for it
Instead of factual did you mean to say false? Because if it wasn't his then it would be false to claim it was stolen. It's not factual that something was stolen.
It should be noted that even if an agreement is accepted to not exist, that does not work in Logan's favor.
If there is no agreement, than the developer has no obligation to transfer the IP rights he has on the code to Logan.
So "holding the code hostage"? Yeah, right. More like refusing to transfer the IP rights to the code for free
I use to say, "if you do not have it down on paper, you're either stupid, or its criminal". Logan has shown it can be both. Not proof of payment, then its not Logan's code. In the old days we had cancelled checks, mailed back to us every month. Ask anybody who's had a checking account before 1990, or so.
@@michaelmoorrees3585 this is still true and I’d a bit of a money hack if you are short on money. If they are taking payment then they can’t send you to collections.
Send them a dollar. It won’t pay off the debt but it keeps you in good standing and will help your credit.
Hahaha this is true, if there's no contract, that means it's Zach's code anyway, he's not obliged to give it to anyone XD
@@michaelmoorrees3585 Technically, I still have returned checks. Anytime i write a check, which is very rare, the bank has a digital image of the check I can view or print online.
@@michaelmoorrees3585 I am a European and checks were never a thing that has seen a wide use in Europe.
However it is an international principle of IP Law that the holder of the IP over a property is its creator. That is why companies have contract clauses that state that all products developed by their employees during work hours and with company resources are the property of the company.
So if Logan claims that there is no contract, so he does not have to pay a dime, than the developer can freely claim he has no obligation to hand over his IP.
"Known lying asshole turns out to be a lying asshole...people somehow surprised" seems to be a very prominent theme of the last few years
Reads like a Plague Inc news bulletin
It's interesting that Logan was the first one to throw down the legal gauntlet and then potentially opened himself up for his own legal troubles.
Also, I'm glad to hear this whole drama from the legal point of view. There's so many misconceptions about the legalities of certain things, such as the "illegal" phone recording. Thanks for clearing that up.
Logan, is not a smart man. Charisma and cunning can get you a long way though evidently.
notice the manager didn't make a statement on the recording? likely because coffee got permission or statement that would hold up that he was recorded with his knowledge
I think lawyers, not the police, are the best at making people follow the laws. Not from their actions in a court room but here through youtube. I watch a lot of videos related to the law and... its so confusing. There is so much going on, so many levels and layers to get around. The more I attempt to learn the law the more I follow the law heh. Not because I'm scared of consequence but because the beaucracy is such that it feels at time, without proper funds, its not about right/wrong but luck/opportunity.
I do wish he had stuck to his guns. He could have been sued for defamation and probably penalized for an obvious SLAP suit. The only thing that knocks sense into bad influencers is monetary penalties.
Well, he is a man child with well documented problems with impulse control and poor judgement. It's not really surprising at all.
The code was held hostage as much as Best Buy is holding a PS5 hostage from me unless I give them $500. Logan never paid for the code, so he has no ownership.
I still have yet to understand why everyone is trying to rehabilitate Logan’s image in their mind. All the lip service to save face can’t hide all of the shady shit he still does and the questionable behavior on his podcast. And also what an absolutely appropriate name.
Yup a kid who got rich for being dumb surprise has no respect honor or even understanding of how selfish greedy and ignorant he is
Exactly my thoughts. The earliest red flag was his monetizing of the body in Japan suicide forest and only doing a canned apology once he received tons of public backlash. Anyone who is willing to exploit someone and their families tragedy for money is someone of extreme narcissistic and possibly some sociopathic tendencies.
There is a reason why TotalBiscuit referred to fandoms as fandumbs.
@@CaptainFalc0nPunch that was not the earliest red flag. His post vine content in general teetered on sketchy. The Japanese suicide forest was like a loud blaring alarm that people decided to snooze I guess.
CZcams personality fandoms feel especially intimate. Especially the ones that essentially “grew up” on CZcams. It’s kind of like that one casual bro from highschool. You always overlook his asshole tendencies. I mean, he’s always been cool with you personally. Till you find out he’s been arrested for date r or something.. then it FINALLY sinks in.
There's no speculation about how many engineers worked on the project. The GitHub Repo will have exact dates, times, and volumes of contributions for each contributor as a natural part of the commit history. Z has no reason to lie here and is not speculating on this point. It's a matter of extremely well documented fact, given one has access to the repo.
the record will def show the truth
Coffeezilla backed up the claim of at least 30 engineers when he made a guest appearance at Penguin0’s podcast
Logans blatent disregard for the truth is absolutely disgusting.
It's almost like if your project is something that can be done on a computer (in this case), you don't need an actual office or have your staff present in person in order to work on it.
7:42 a teacher in college once taught us how to write a group project contract. I still use it when I feel it’s necessary. One time I had to enforce it and had someone removed from the team for contributing nothing over a month of research and drafting. Contracts are important 👏👏
This makes me fuzzy inside. Fuck group work mooches.
And taking code hostage in lack of payment is basically standard practice now.
That 3 vs 30 devs bit was already very suspicious to me when I first saw Logan's video. The only evidence that Logan showed for that were two photos of three people, which is, as you said, very easy to cherry-pick.
on top of that, did he really think that a block chain would employ 30 people in a singular location?
@@mqw.4377
During a pandemic, no less
Not to mention work from home is very much still a thing and it's possible the other employees work remotely.
Which Logan MIGHT be aware of, but chooses to ignore it just to make HIS narrative make sense.
I remember a CZcamsr I followed reacted to the response video and immediately questioned that
He actually produced a game before (an actual game) and said it’s very likely he had a lot of contractors to help code and only physically meet up with a small portion.
That’s how a lot of indie games are made after all not everyone has access to a billion dollar game studio that holds all the expensive equipment everyone needs to work
@@luisf2793 even companies that can afford shiny new toys do have arrangements with employees to work at home or elsewhere too, tbh. Like it's just part of work accommodation if anything.
Re: the code "hostage", I"m not sure how you can worry about 'breach of contract' in the lack of a contract. No one was paid, so no work was delivered. How can this reflect badly on the programmers? Code you write isn't a work for hire if no one ever pays you, so it's your property if you wrote it.
I'll add to this that if a team of 30 programmers write a body of code under no legal agreement, and no compensation, then those 30 programmers all individually own their own copyrights. Which means basically everyone owns it and in some ways no one owns it. Essentially, there's no already formalized agrement about how it can be used (duplicated, transmitted etc) under copyright, then it's pretty dead, unless you can get agreement from all contributors as to how it can be used. (or their contributions can be properly identified and replaced, in a way that does not run afoul of derivative work issues.)
@@jsrodman alternatively, it's Zack's company's property. Which is fine imo
If I am not mistaken, you can't get a violent crime conviction expunged. You can get it sealed, iirc, but not expunged. So, if Z's conviction was expunged, then it couldn't have been for an armed robbery. My guess is that he knew the people who committed the robbery and didn't rat on them, so he was convicted of obstruction. That's just my guess, though.
That makes a ton of sense tbh
And only six month sentence for armed robbery? If so, must have had a hell of an attorney.
It depends on what state you are in. Different states have different processes for expunging your record
Edit sorry wanted to correct it just saw it was for "obstruction" so he was an an "accomplice" in the cops eyes if they hit him with a felony. 😂 and was a dumb kid most felonies unless it's a sex crime or actions that cause physical harm most felonies in the USA can be exsponged after 7 years just depends on the the lvl of the crimes classifications.... don't assume. It's exsponged and not your business unless you're law inforcement you have no reason to even know about a sealed file. Logan fucked up big
@@nellax8314 how did you edit and still leave "exSPONGED"
Legal tip of the day:
Before you accuse someone of defamation, look up what the word "defamation" means.
This is too funny. Coffeezilla is a hero we don't deserve. #PumpTheStock
this is something ive been trying to get people to cover on multiple different videos. this is an actual case of defamation.
Right? I PRAY Zack is already speaking woth legal council about bringing a suit. I.m.o. its a pretty much guarenteed win if what we know is true
Also as an aside 50k a week sounds like a lot of money but for 30 full time software engineers that’s mega discounted rate
Right that about 6,600 a month each salary that doesn't seem excessive
I would suspect that not every developer was contributing full time
Probably some of the devs were remote outsourced to cheaper countries.
@@antbankzbruh if he were hiring solely out of India, that's actually more than an entry level software dev would make in a year, USD. Even a mid level dev makes the equivalent of roughly 15k a year.
They're not all going to be full time probably. I work at a startup with around 20 software engineers. Some log around 5 - 10 hours per week, some log 40 hours.
How the heck you commit defamation while threatening to sue someone for defamation. The levels of headassery needed...
By being an idiot.
@@mrfoameruk nah, this goes beyond idiocy, I'm heavily leaning towards actual malicious intent
@@PhoenixValkyrie It's both. You have to be stupid to say what you said and he's angry because he got called out for being a scammer (and therefore a thief I expect)
I hope with all my hearth that Zack goes through with the legal process and doesn't settle this outside of court.
Neither party has much incentive to go through the full legal process if z sues for defamation unless logan significantly lowballs z on a settlement deal.
Logan sure is shit doesn't want to open himself up to discovery on anything relating to cryptozoo and zack would likely just want a monetary concession either way.
Logan is a stupid cheapskate, so he might lowball the settlement
@@nickq8093 Going through with a case may end trust towards Logan when opening up other ventures. What the world hopes for is an end to crypto-scamming by the Paul Bros. and other influencers. :)
@@YourXellency i agree but Z himself doesn't really have much incentive to do that.
Ohh what the discovery phase will bring to light
At least I hope that it would, how much can the discovery phase of the lawsuit unearth things about the crypto zoo scam. Crypto Zoo being a scam isn’t the focus of the trial but hopefully it can unearth some stuff like where’s all the million dollars Logan claimed he spent working on the project
It is amazing how much like we saw with Andrew Tate, Logan basically threw himself under the bus trying to make a response video and made his situation worse. Would not be shocked at all if Logan's lawyer tries to settle this out of court by any means since (once again, just amazing) how he basically did what he accused Coffeezilla of and is realizing the pendulum just swung in the other way.
LOL! You may want to do some fact checking. The claims you are making are lies created by a trannie who fabricates stuff
He and Andrew tate and other scammers tell people you are in matrix and for escaping from matrix join us give your money to us then we tell you how you escape. Andrew tate has a academy which he says he teach people to become millionaire and escape matrix and when you join you gain nothing🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 logan made fake Pokemon and cryptozoo to steal people money😂😂 still people support them
That's what can happen when your ego is so big that you think you are infallible. Particularly in Logan Paul's case, he surrounds himself with yes-men, they will not tell him when he goes beyond logic and reason because they are afraid to be removed from his inner circle thus no longer be able to leech off of him. LP's ego is so inflated, that he would take it as a personal attack if someone was to tell him no, even if rightly so, and I think the only reason he has backtracked is because he has been told that it could potentially cost him A LOT of money, not because he realized, or has been convinced, he was wrong.
I don't think he understands what he's getting himself into. He's been doing shady sh*t for years and nobody has cared.
All coffie have to do is let the trial commense and watch logan burn himself
Logan finding out exactly how diligent Coffee really is in his investigations.
Considering Logan is still planning legal action against Kelling and a few others, I'd argue what he said was meant with malice, to discredit Kelling, and hurt his future ventures.
If I was part of a jury, I think i'd consider the "hold the code hostage" as opinion, but at the same time, i'd consider it part of attempted defamation to paint Zach as an unsavory character and a criminal, and so it would factor into my judgement of Logan Paul. Then again, I haven't ever been briefed for jury duty, so maybe i'd take a different stance in the moment.
seem defamation might be civil or criminal. not sure what it would come under but if its in the UK it seems it is a civil process and you would not have a jury as it is between you and him and a higher-up will decide the verdict.
Civil cases can have juries
@@SoulDelSol I stand corrected "The vast majority of Civil cases tried in court do not have a jury (libel and slander trials are the main exceptions). Most often a judge hears them on their own, deciding them by finding facts and applying the relevant law."
Character assassination is a tell tale sign of deception.
@@mrfoameruk I've been called for jury duty twice for civil trials. Both times were not libel/slander but for personal injury. This might be anecdotes at work or a US vs UK difference.
Dude tried to show the public he's a victim of defamation by making a defamation video filled with threats, mockery and no apology. Basically he was like, 'Yeah, let's get the public side with us by showing them we're a bully, a stupid bully.'
I don't know how this isn't textbook defamation. Logan dug up expunged criminal records in order to paint Zach Kelling as an unsavory and untrustworthy individual. Only question is if there was demonstrably malice involved, which there probably was.
Logan ...: if coffee did his research he'd know everyone I hired were criminals
Character assassination does not seem to be a legitimate purpose to me. Very curious where the info came from. That's gonna bite him.
I'm starting to think these were genius level red herrings to play on the general audience's emotions. Logan's moved us from talking about the leaked text messages (which were 100% damming of conspiring to evade the SEC and commit a rug pull) to everyone only caring about the smokescreen of the "fight" between him and Stephen. You don't need to get the facts straight to start a fight in the court of public opinion.
So he basically made defamatory remarks about multiple people as a smokescreen? Seems unlikely. He was just dumb.
@@vanzeelliot7134 Dumb enough to listen to someone who tells him he needs to say this to get people to not look at the potential rug pull. (Manger maybe?)
@@vanzeelliot7134 Being hit up for defamatory remarks is going to be preferred rather than getting hit up for things like fraud and such.
@@jameshobbs9180 being sued for defamation doesn't make him immune to being sued for fraud. People won't forget his other crimes simply because he is still in the limelight for his potential crimes.
He reacted impulsively, which we know is (obviously) one of his leading traits. He laser beamed to Coffeezilla without a developed understanding of the severity of his messages. His response backfired bringing a great deal more attention to the situation (so not a genius move, as many more have now seen those messages/financial crimes) and now his legal team have finally got him under control. He's not a PR genius, this wasn't a masterplan, this was all evidently self defeating
If anything I think a jury would side with Zach over the code mostly because he is the one that developed it. Logan can not have it without having actually paid for it. It would be like asking a bakery to make you a cake and then deciding not to pay them. You can’t get the cake without payment.
I was having all these thoughts when he first put up his video. And then when he took it down I knew I was right. He will be very lucky if he doesn't get sued.
It's probably best he took it down but there's probably thousands of individual ripped downloads of it.
Logans attorneys are probably pulling their hair out.
One of the better analysis of a dumpster fire that I've seen lately...
Remote work is a thing. My wife's job is 100% remote. There are a few that prefer going to the office. But folks at the office are a very small subset of the entire workforce there.
I think Logan had a moment of sanity, called a real lawyer in to help him out and he was honest under the cover of privilege. That attorney took one look under the curtin at the dumpsters fire and told Logan he was potentially screwed 5 ways to sunda. Thus him walking everything back and a full 180.
I don't think LP has admitted anything or suddenly has had an epiphany. I think he has been told that it could cost him a lot of money if continues down that road. His ego is too big for him to be able to see he has done anything wrong.
I think it's more that he tried this and the audience reacted really badly, so now he's going the other way.
@freethis222 literally what I said. He got unstupid long enough to be told "dude, do you want jail time? Because yea, this could be jailtime and or really really expensive. "
@@MorRobots totally agree
"so good news Logan! This is an easy case!"
"So what's the bad news?"
"You're more screwed than a callgirl at a bar on Friday payday"
If the GitHub shows 30 (or more) different developers were commiting changes to the codebase, Logan Paul's gonna get the book thrown at him at court for that lie too. It should be extremely easy to prove.
I noticed that there was a spelling/grammar mistake-‘Obstruct Legal Proces’-in the criminal record that Paul displayed showing Z’s expunged criminal record. Is that something that happens on official documents (is it just an abbreviation?) or could that record have been manually created and if that is the case, is that illegal?
I saw that too. I hope we get a follow-up on that one.
I doubt it was manually created by anyone on Logan's side of all of this. It's not uncommon to see words like that cut off on court documents and even police tickets.
Sometimes it can happen because of character-size limits in reports/data fields.
The legal system is run by humans and employs humans. The thought of there being a typo on a real document is not unthinkable and probably easily brushed aside if it does not cause ambiguity
Such a thorough examination of the case!! Wow. As someone who has pursued withheld payment from an employer, I really hope Zach takes note.
I feel that saying something has been taken hostage implies someone holding something they do not own or have the right to for the purpose of extorting money.
I think logan saying the code was held hostage is like saying a store is holding its products hostage, which is factually untrue since you dont have a right to whats in the store. The store isnt holding your goods from you until you give them money a store has their good up for sale.
when he said that he was reacting out of anger because "he's a fighter," he was not wrong. that was a CTE-ass response.
Logan doesn't have CTE. He's had 1 actual boxing match plus 2 against another youtuber
@@SoulDelSol it was a joke my man, get your head checked.
It's a symptom of an untreated personality disorder, not CTE. He's a classic narcissist, and they do not react rationally to criticism.
Loved to see the first video had as much of a positive response as I thought it deserved! ❤
I recently found your channel and I've become a big fan. Your content is the definition of professionalism with very accurate legal analysis based upon the facts, not feelings. 3 of my childhood friends are attorneys that graduated from NSL, Nashville School of Law, and I find litigation, discovery, dispute, and the settlement processes very interesting. I provide their business with technical support as I have a masters in computer science with a minor in business. I hear quite a large amount of legal jargon and analysis quite often being in this environment multiple days a week.
One final thing, you are absolutely one of the most beautiful women I've ever laid my eyes on. Keep up the great work and may you and yours have a blessed 2023 and subsequent years to come!
Your first video on this was recommended to me randomly. I almost didn't watch it since I can't stand Logan Paul and had no idea what the current drama even was, yet I clicked it anyways since I enjoy a good legal breakdown. I've got to say that you're one of the best youtube lawyers I've come across when it comes to simplifying the explanations and how they impact the situation at hand! Thank you for taking the time to make such a well thought out and presented video.
Seriously, this was a great video. But the real highlight was being introduced to that Jonathan Frakes meme. How I missed it for so long is beyond me. Life changing.
I just hope this goes to court and we get to see the outcomes.
I wanted to know what the expungement meant in this situation after watching your earlier video myself. It's great that come back as new events come up.
[Edit:] My first thought is that the statement of the code being held "hostage" is a true but misleading statement. I can be convinced it's an opinion.
I LOVE THE ADDED... "This is pure fiction!" "We made it up!" hahahahaa
Just commenting to say this video is super high quality. Obviously a lawyer is going to be thorough in researching the topic but delivery and editing are also second to none. What an enjoyable voice to listen to at work. 5/5 would sub again.
Could you categorize "asking for a bottle that is behind the counter in a shop and them refusing to give it to you till you agree to pay" as holding your things hostage?
something, that was sticking out was the middle name was not a match, now to most that may not mean much but when my mom tried to apply for an online high school for me someone with the same first and last name as me got rejected because of a criminal record the school mistook me for him for a few days.
I would be thrilled if he gets sued into oblivion... but he honestly should be in prison... fraud and theft are crimes
I object to the characterization of this as a dumpster fire. Dumpster fires are by definition contained, whereas this is more like a tire fire right out in the open. 😏
Great video (as always!), but the insert of Beyond Belief Fact or Fiction was *chef's kiss*. Loved watching that show as a kid.
I love this analysis overall! However assuming what Logan showed on the screen about Zach is true, he was born in 1983 and is approx 39 years old now which would have made him about 19 in 2002 when the crime was committed. So if 19 is not a juvenile (as was assumed in the video) how does that change the legal ramifications to Logan if at all? Also assuming what is shown on the screen is true, Zach did commit a class 9 felony for “obstructing the legal process” but there is no mention whatsoever of him robbing a liquor store. For so many reasons, but for this one issue alone, this video was so stupid of Logan to make. I don’t understand how anyone on his team him put this horrible video out since this has nothing to do with disputing the evidence that Cryptozoo was not a scam IMO.
I was doing that math as well, however, the date provided is the disposition date (basically the date the course case was finalized, so to speak) - not the date of the offense. Without knowing how long it took for the case to get to court, we still don't have any idea of when the offense actually occurred. As mentioned, the offense is not listed as the robbery, but obstruction. So Logan was counting on people not paying attention to any of the details of what he was putting on display and also counting on all his fans to get on board with his felony=evil defense.
Ah ok I see! Thanks for the helpful response. Not a lawyer so not sure how things work. Man this whole thing is so wild. Sorry I did understand what Logan was trying to do by evil person equals defense but like so many others pointed out, Logan hired him.
@legalbytes your coverage of this "feud" has been fantastic 💯👍👍👍👍👍
If Zach was born in xx-xx-1983 (now aged 39) and the alleged felony occurred in 2002 then he would have been either 18 or 19 years old.
None of that matters though since it has long since been expunged. The real issue is whether or not the state can get Logan Paul thrown into jail for a while himself...
Had you noticed that the photo of Kelling in a jumpsuit is a photoshopped version of the photo in blue/gray tshirt? Surely by adding that to his (JP) vid malicious intent is shown?
Ma watching this situation play out is a great study for how to spot Narcissistic, toxic behavior.
No, it's not. I'll never understand people's obsession with trying to box people into that lable.
@@lolwillow188
Logan either really taped or staged a fake recording (in order to trick people into thinking that it was a real recording) of a suicide victim's remains. If that isn't toxic behavior, nothing is.
@14:01. Your doggo gives the impression he really doesn't want to listen to an explanation of expungement. Either he knows it already or, you're disturbing his peace and quiet, lol.
Speaking on the project/code being 'held hostage'. I work in advertising, and not infrequently have worked on websites and other creative projects like it over the past 25 years or so . When a creative company makes a thing for a client, the creating company owns their work. A good example of this is how a wedding photographer will shoot a wedding, and get you the pictures you contracted for. But if you wanted reprints...you had to go to the photographer and order them. The photographer owned the photos, even though they were paid to shoot them.
That ownership can be transferred to the client, but that is something that has to be specified in an agreement or contract. But that ownership transfer does not happen before the job is finished and never happens before the creating company has been paid in full.
Logan Paul's statement (paraphrased) that Z 'stole the code, fled to Switzerland, and held the code hostage for $1 million' is an accusation that is false if Paul never paid them in full. It's no different that if Logan Paul wanted to buy a customized car. If her ordered the car, and the seller made modifications that Logan Paul specified, it wouldn't be theft if Paul didn't pay for the car. The dealership didn't steal the car, and they aren't holding it for ransom, and saying so would be a lie.
My 2 cents.
The jumpsuit picture looks like one of the other picture when he was older with a jumpsuit photo shopped onto it. 19:27 vs 20:43
Though I'm a first year student of Law in the Philippines this was an excellent breakdown of a case that is quite enlightening and not as stressful as facing down the glare of my Instructors.
Have you seen Legal Eagle? He has some really good instructional vids on the law and how its often portrayed in pop culture.
@Ivy94F Dallas not as much as I would have liked. Time to watch videos has been difficult due to also working during regular office hours.
That and there are a few differences in the statutes between the U.S. and the Philippines.
I'll check him out for certain topics after combing through points of interest locally that we share with the U.S.
OMG, I just noticed there was a puppers in the background, I thought it was a plushie until it moved lol, it scared me.
I love the pillow and dog in the background
I really wonder if the WWe didn't contact him and say "if you don't do this our right way you're done"
Ahhhh this is why Logan has now come out sooking and ‘apologising’ 😂 he would NEVER admit to his mistakes unless it would hit him harder if he didn’t.
Exactly, it's not a bad conscience but rather fear of a shrinking wallet that has made him do an about turn.
I love the pillow in the background, the dog does indeed sit there
Love your channel Alita, you’re a very inspiring person. Can I ask, when will you have a large panel again like the Johnny Depo trial? I watched every single day with you guys and haven’t found anything like it since!
I've been in IT and development for 25 years. From my perspective, the idea that an experienced developer working on a million dollar project proceeded to work and engaged his team without any deposit, no consideration at all and no contract defies belief.
That’s a fair point. They do all seem shady, Zach just seems to have the best case for defamation because he’s who Logan decided to throw under the bus.
I've been thinking about this, and I wonder (and it is just speculation on my part) if it was naivete on Zach's part, perhaps believing that because Logan Paul is a famous person that he was in good hands, obviously that is incorrect, you should never trust anyone's word, not even your own unless you have it in writing.
Whatever the reason for the lack of contract, it was a mistake on Zach's part to proceed without one.
Having said that, LP is a massive bellend and his conduct is nothing short of shameful and imo, criminal, but the worst that be said from my perspective about Zach is his failure to secure a written agreement.
It’s a crypto project. It’s the Wild West and they’re all cowboys.
@@jeremypnet its like a modern day train robbery lol. The wild west analogy is legit
Yeah, he said he had 30 engineers working on the project, didn't he think about securing their pay before making them work on it?
man they could sell tickets to be on this jury, I'd love to be in that court room
man im afraid to take my old employer to court for wrongly firing me yet logan paul is speedrunning crimes. the duality of man
I so, so much appreciate the quality of LegalBytes' scripted videos, like this one.
Very clear presentation, great organization, good contributing background research, everything presented being very relevant. It's excellent.
I feel I would be an unacceptable jury member as I've watched coffeezillas videos and I now have an unfair bias
My guy all of them conspired to manipulate the market. Theyre all dogshit humans
As someone who has been through the voir dire process, they would ask you that stuff, then after you affirmed that you know LP and heard of all this, they would still ask if you could be impartial. You could still stay yes and be considered, but both lawyers would have to agree on you being a juror. Depending on a whole bunch of other factors you don’t get to know, they gamble on whether or not your whole person is an advantage or disadvantage. Its pretty fascinating, really. Lol.
Great video it answered exactly what I was thinking about. Keep up the great work 👍
What I'm curious about is when you look at the sheet Logan Paul showed, it says the middle name didn't match. What could have caused that?
Liked and subscribed! I didn't know there's an actual legal analysis channel on CZcams which is this good.
One possibility not discussed... Zach himself told Paul about the prior felony. He stated in his interview that he is up front with investors about his past. He may have told Paul he had a criminal history. If Paul's understanding of events is based on Zach's prior statements to him, he may be in the clear (at least for the felony history aspect). That said, if Zach wasn't involved in an armed robbery, and Paul made it up or jumped to conclusions, then he's probably screwed.
I suspect Zach may have told Logan at some point just to be open about it, but without any details, but later Logan tried to look up dirt based on that and found the record with the same name, which will probably end up not actually being the same Zach.
This entire crypto zoo is a dumpster fire and I am just a Raccoon enjoying the warmth in the CZcams night.
On that "crime details" page, a few things jumped out at me. First, the "OBSTRUCT LEGAL PROCES" [sic] is Count 1. Is it usual for the first count to be an obstruction charge? Second, "FELONY LEVEL 9" doesn't seem appropriate to an "armed robbery of a liquor store" *unless* this was pled down by the state. Does this make any sense?
Great video, by the way!
Even when I just had a local handyman screen-in our porch we signed a contract. It was on notebook paper but still. It highlighted the cost, the estimated time of completion, how much of the cost needed to be up-front for materials, and the date we signed the contract. I took a photo of it with my phone and also saved it as a PDF to make sure I had my own copy. Even when doing something casual it pays to have a contract. We had no problems but imagine if we did...
Just from the paperwork Paul showed in the video, it's clear that Kelling was 19 at time of arrest. Does that change the law regarding expungement? (I know nothing about either of these people but got sucked into the drama when CZcams recommended Coffeezilla's video to me.)
Logan got the full brunt of the Streisand Effect. Dude should have just shut his mouth when Coffee made that video and people would have forgotten about it in a month or two.
Fr lmao. Asmongold has a reaction video to Logans video and he said so many times he thought Logan was "making the right moves"
Your two videos on this topic are really excellent. Thanks for the great work!
I love the info and audio quality of the video, so I subscribed. Thank you!
"move over the dog sits here" and there the dog is! Wonderful content
Shout out to Muta! Dude makes some fun content.
Thanks for the clear video explaining the legal issues here I find it informative and backed up with facts and discussion of different possibilities
there is a hair on the mic only spoted it towards the end of the video. Had to go bk and check if it was in the last vid. its only in the updates. now the question is will you make this your own 3 part series X)
30 engineers is in fact a very high head count for a project. I would love to see how the project milestones and workload was assigned.
especially for something as idiotic as buying JPEGs
Probably most were part-time.
Glad to see this sensible analysis it is so annoying hearing Logan and his Manager "bro talk" the law in the coffee zilla recording
Question: at 7:51 you suggest we get any sort of written agreement made for contracted work. I’ve contacted an artist recently for a piece, would our dm logs count for legal requirements? Just for curiosity’s sake as I trust this artist immensely, have followed them for years, and fully believe they are more than well entitled to the prices they ask for their work
Madam, on behalf of the Legal Community we say thanks to both yourself and Attorney Tom for investigating Cryptozoo and Logan Paul's involvement with the failed investment. We feel extremely sorry for all the investors who have lost their money. Logan Paul has a very good lawyer who will represent him in the Binding Arbitration Hearing, and hopefully the Arbitrator will issue an Arbitration Award enforceable by law in favor of the investors who are part of the civil action. As from experience, I believe a Binding Arbitration Hearing to be more relaxed than a Court Hearing in civil claims, and more evidence will be allowed to be presented which in this case will work in favor of the Plaintiff over the Defendant.