Mark, one way to approach this in regards to transfer punches... punch, drill and tap your first hole. Thread up the chuck, then punch for your subsequent holes. Your workpiece isn't likely to shift that way. Anyways, nice work as always
Hello Matty, I ended up putting a .001 shim between the chuck and back plate. The run out wasn't very bad but it's near perfect now. The quality of these collets is amazing. Very consistent. I marked the chuck and tried 4 sizes and the run out was in the same spot every times.
Mark, as always "I Like It". I don't know if we tell you enough, but you are a great teacher. Of course it's fun to showcase the things we make for our audience, but you never forget to pass on your knowledge in an easy to follow and understand manner, with all of those seeking to learn what is something taken for granted as we become proficient. So from me and all those silent but grateful listeners out there, Thank you. Gilles (PS: I'd love it if you'd have a peek over my side of the fence if you have a chance).
You are too kind! Just watched you cutoff tool video. I love the HSS with cobalt with the T shaped 3/32" blade although I think mine is 3/4" tall. I usually part off at a feed rate of .001 per revolution and 170 RPM but 800 works a little better for 1" dia or smaller. I use the 170 so I don't sling oil everywhere. I have never had luck with the quick change tool holders although I have not tried them on my South Bend, only my Logan. I designed a direct mount blade holder that worked well and more recently a spring cutoff tool for the quick change. So far its worked fantastic.
Outstanding job! I've seen a few of these but your video was the easiest to follow by a good bit. Thanks for taking the extra time to record, edit and share!
I've been watching how to set up for long time never seen your outside setup on tool before. Cool cheap easy and works 😊. Thanks will use it on my lathe in my shop when i can learn to cut threads. Keep the good work going 👍. Knowledge acquired and will share 👍
You are full of all kinds of updates here these days my friend. Thus chuck is going to see A LOT OF USE EH. Mine sure did. I don't know how I ever did without one.
@@WinkysWorkshop We will spend a few thousand on a machine and 10x that and more in tooling over the years. The we most times have to make the adaptors etc to make them work. It is like creating xmas all year round eh, LOL.
@@WinkysWorkshop I am thinking now that 10x is pretty light, esp for the lathe and mill. I can only imagine the cost of a couple sets of gauge pins, Round and rectangle standards. 5, min sets of cobalt drill bits, The never ending purchase of tool bit holders and new bits that are forever coming on the market. There's an idea for a video you can do my friend. Take care bud.
Go for it! It's not hard, just time consuming. The hardest part for me is the mounting bolts. Also, make sure you make the doughnut on the back small enough so you have room for the bolts.
As i watch you make this a bit at a loss but i have a China mini lathe so different but alike so much knowledge im geting from you. Built my own 4 jaw adapter to my lathe years back . Ya a good teacher show ya mistakes and corrections good knowledge ya give us that seak to learn. Thank you for giving what you know to us . Its valued and will be shared to the next
I built two so I can use Collets on my Sheldon 10" and my Atlas 12" - this is a great addition to those machines capabilities. I have run out under .0005 on the Sheldon, and right at .))! for the Atlas. The Atlas bearings are probably the source of most of that. You do good practical projects. Thank you.
Thanks... Yeah, I worked on mine a little, it's less than .0005" now. The chuck itself was a little out but as near as I can tell the collets are perfect.
I was able to make a double chuck holder for the motor side of the spindle of a small lathe (made in China) using this video as a reference. Cutting M45x1.5 threads was very difficult! thank you!
Another great instructive video. I recently fitted a similar ER32 collet chuck to my large lathe. The backing plate is held in a 200mm 3 jaw chuck. However I made the chuck a "zero adjust" chuck like the more expensive 3 jaw chucks. That way any runout can be simply dialled out with four centering screws. If you follow the lead of many lathe manufacturers the collet chuck is a loose fit on the backing plate (say 1mm diametral clearance) . To centre, back off holding screws and tap chuck to get running true. Once zero runout is achieved, tighten up the chuck holding screws. Cheers John
Great Job Mark. Looks Great and Works Great. I think the Runout will be less once your able to check correctly. Thanks for making the Video. I have to do the same thing, and it’s nice to see how you did it.👍
33:40 To finish off with - a bit of lube on the threads (spindle nose and collet nut) and skim the 'back' faces of the backplate just so all the unimportant faces appear to run true.
Mark your temperament is a hell of a lot more mellow than mine. When that counter-bored hole blew out I think I wiped a tear from my eye. I would have been ranting expletives so loud my shop walls would have shook! To get that far along (the final operations) with no mishaps and then...Grrrr!*!XX*!! See, I did it for ya! 😁 Wakodahatchee Chris
Thanks, very good, I have been considering some ER collets so this has helped. 2.836" is 72mm (72.03) which I think is a pretty standard size register for 4" / 100mm chucks. People could buy a commercial plate in this size if they did not have the skills or resources to do a great job like you did.
Good job, a very useful project. I use an ER32 on my mini lathe. I bought a chuck that fits straight onto the spindle. I also use an R8 ER32 chuck in my mill so they can share the collets. Runout on the lathe is a fantastic 0.01mm and bit more on the mill. The trick with ER collets is to keep them clean, treating them to an ultrasonic clean now and again gets the tiny hard-to-get-at muck out of them, use a mild detergent and very thin coat of oil to stop rust, there's a CZcams video showing this but I ca't remeber who or when 🤔. Also look out for ER square and hexagon blocks to cut flats on round stock making them versatile. The point Winky made about ball bearing nuts is worth knowing to get good clamping on hard materials such as end mills. Another good point is noting that the slots are cut from the front and the back alternately which gives even clamping along the length if the collet and allows a bigger clamping range, usually 1mm (40thou). I like it as well 😁. Update: the ultrasonic cleaning of ER collets and the nuts was by Stefan Gotteswinter. Here is the video, fast forward to 12:00 for the ultrasound cleaning segment. czcams.com/video/jkHQq0L5aDk/video.html
I love that old lathe, looks like the South bend 9" lathes that we had in the school metal work shop back in the mid 50's .......I have a 1930 Colchester Bantam and it's much like that one with the twin raised Vees for the carriage slideways.........mostly these older lathes have a back gear and for low down speed and torque you just don't get it on cheap lathes that are on the market now......can't think why it's not a refit feature, it's easily retrofitted.
Hello Mark. Nice looking project there. I have two suggestions. You can use your digital calipers to function like a dro when making the stub to fit onto the er collet body. Measure the diameter of the recess and then zero the calipers. Now measure the diameter of the backplate and the calipers will show the amount to be removed ( the difference in diameters) to make the stub. Divide that in half to get the radius to be removed. The other suggestion is to( I am sure you did this) take a break and let the backplate cool down to room temp before the final cuts. The stub will shrink enough to be noticeable if you cut straight to the final dimension while the part is still warm/hot from the cutting action
I like the caliper tip - and yes, I've commented - no need for the emery, it was a fit as it was - if he'd allowed it to cool ! And perhaps a bit of lube when fitting it !
I forget about using the calipers like that but it's a good idea. The steel was warm but not hot... but you are right, it would change a little. I ended up making it undersized anyway to get the collet centered. Also shimmed it a little.
@@WinkysWorkshop I did the same thing for my Precision Mathews lathe some time ago. Overshot and cut it too small "on purpose - hehe" but it turned out to be needed just like you said, as it gives me some play to adjust to zero run-out. Thanks for sharing.
Hi. The "unthreaded part" you refer to is the register. I made an ER32 collet chuck for my Boxford lathe a few years ago. Love your videos. All the best. Jim in the U.K. I paused the video at 20 minutes to write the first part of this message and 1minute after restarting it you called it a register. Serves me right for jumping the gun.
There is some disagreement about the unthreaded part of the spindle. The back flange is what I called the register. It squares the chuck. The unthreaded area according to some does nothing. Apparently the threads center the chuck. Logan Actuator (Of Logan lathes) said you can bore the unthreaded part .020" over without consequence. I've never tried this.
To check the collet chuck concentricity make a skim pass on your rod and then turn the rod around in the chuck, now recheck your concentricity. That is why I like ER collets; they have .040” range!
That would work. Mine is very slightly off. I was thinking about getting turning a 1 inch shaft between centers and turning it true and then mounting the collet chuck (minus the plate) on the shaft and turning the back of the plate true.
Actually the collets are perfect. Of course I have not tested them all but I have checked maybe 5 of them and they are all the same .001 in the same direction (the chuck). The collet quality is shockingly good!
Didn't you hear us all shouting "the other right" ? My OCD is really struggling with the layout in your box of collets. I do hope you will arrange them in size order soon.
I done something alike for a 5C chuck I overcome the excentricity problem with a very simple solution, What I done is that my faceplate is 2 inch bigger diameter than the chuck body and I do not use the register, the chuck is recessed in the backplate with a play of 0.005" on the diameter and I use 4 brass tipped 1/2-20 set screws to make the fine concentricity adjustment. is it a bit more work but it permits to set the concentricity to " 0 " the way we do it with a 4 jaw chuck and it permits to compensate for the slop on the spindle thread and the chuck construction. very good video
@@millomweb Of course! I knew from experience that the slight roughness on the threads would smooth out anyway... although I have made the assumption in the past an been wrong. It's a matter of degree. Watch the video closely and you will see where i oiled the threads.
@@WinkysWorkshop We got a new electric drill with fold-away handle. Unfold and lock in place with a plastic-topped brass screw. That screw was stiff - and I thought it'd ride up with wear - but it annoyed me - so it got oiled - made a big difference !
Mark Thanks. Your reply was very helpful. Another question - I have an old four jaw chuck for a threaded spindle and I want to use it on my Jet 1340 GHE lathe. How can I make the pins that have a half circle on their side which is part of the chuck locking mechanism to the spindle? Your videos are very helpful thanks.
Great video... I like it when you don't edit out your mistakes.... you're really up front. Did you post or can you post links to the chuck, bearing collet nut and collets.
Yeah... I didn't have one. Later I found a 3/4" hardened bar for a linear rail. I ended up shimming one edge a little but it within .0005 now. Even 10" away from the chuck.
It would sure be nice to see a video of you doing that. I am waiting for a collet chuck to arrive so will have to make one. Thanks for the video. Dale in Canada 🇨🇦
Looks like the compound was set to 60 instead of 30 degrees? Or was it just the camera angle? You can check the chuck run out directly by indicating the inner cone with no collet in place
I use ER-40 collets on both my lathe and my mill. I like them because with the duel slotting from both front and back they tighten up radially over the whole surface. Most other collets are only slotted from the front and tighten up only at the front face unless your stock has the perfect OD to match the bore of the collet you are using. One possible detractor of ER collets is the fact that your stock or end mill must go all the way though the collet. Should your stock or end mill be too short to do this you run the risk of the collet slipping and whatever you are holding can and will slip. I learned this when I first started using them and had some milled pieces ruined when the end mill dropped down and took a bigger bite than expected.
I've used them with fairly short stock in the lathe... maybe .500" into the collet but holding an end mill is probably a little more critical, especially carbide. I love these collets but I see no reason to change to these collets on my mill.
Magnificent? Ha, yes its a nice looking lathe. I love old machinery. They took the extra steps to make them look nice. It is a 1931 South Bend 11" model 84A.
At (min 33.22) I started wondering if there was a bit of slop in the lathe spindle...cold rolled just picking that up..which is giving you the extra thousandths out? It is an cool antique lathe.
After making this video I found a suitable 3/4" bar and I ended up shimming one edge with a .002" It's near perfect now. There is .0015 slop in the spindle but it doesn't show up unless you pry up on the spindle. This clearance is needed for an oil film.
@@WinkysWorkshop I think up to 1" (25mm on a metric set) is the standard range, then you can buy an extra set of 5 or 6 to take you up to 30mm. Worth looking out for, I use those largeer sizes a lot of holding square or hex stock.
What is that drill called that you used to make flat bottom holes for the socket cap bolts? Thanks for taking so much time on the threading portion. I've just made threads for the first time a couple of weeks ago. How you did it cleared up some issues I had.
That's great on the threading. Threading is one of those thing that get much easier the more you do it. The bit I used was a counter bore. You drill a standard hole first and then the counterbore bit has a pilot the goes into the hole you drilled. They make them with a solid pilot or with a pilot that you can change. I recommend a solid pilot. You may have noticed I flooded the bit with oil. If you don't do this the pilot will grab and break off. Mine do not have the solid pilot.
@@WinkysWorkshop I have a mini lathe with a metric lead screw. It doesn't have a threading dial. I asked the sellers about this and they didn't have an answer other than that "it doesn't exist". I very much doubt that is true. Do you know what is involved with making a threading dial? I was considering making one, but I don't really know what I should expect.
@@de-bodgery I've made 2 in the past but they were both imperial and not metric. You can still thread on your lathe but you have to run the lathe in reverse and never disengage the carriage. The hard part of making a thread dial is the gear. You need to find a lathe with a threading dial that has same pitch lead screw you have on your. Then you can count the number of teeth and diameter and then find a gear. Making the rest is fairly easy.
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes...that's what I have been doing. I never disengage the lead screw until I'm done cutting threads. My very first threads were 1mm reverse...so that was interesting to learn. I've since refined how to do it much better, but until I saw this video, I was not using my compound correctly. *** I am currently building a tool post mounted grinder attachment for other uses with my lathe. I think with that I can grind pinions and other gears. Ive already added a rotary table to the out feed side of the spindle bore that is easy to disengage. This allows me precise degrees of rotation of the spindle for keyways and other things I'll do on my lathe. The grinder will be the primary tool for cutting the features the rotary table defines. Once it is further along, I'll make a video of it on my channel.
Nice work - love seeing the operation. 🤥 But being new to this I'm a little confused - why didn't you just buy a collet chuck that fits the threading on your spindle? Seems they have them for many different types including Logans. The approach in the video appears to be more work and more places for slop in view of the collet chuck then mounting to this face plate.
Good question! but I see you answer it. They do make a collet chuck that fits the threaded spindle but they are hard to find and don't fit the 1-5/8 spindle on my South Bend 11. They are made by a company named Beal.
I've had my old South Bend for about 30 years now, and I have never been able to get the check off. Kind of afraid to break something, any suggestions?
Yes, first soak it with Aero Kroil. It's high priced but very good. Soak it periodically for about a week. Then put a piece of 1-inch (or larger) hex stock stock in the chuck and tighten firmly. Put a strap wrench around the large pully on the spindle and use an air impact on the hex. I did this on mine. It's not good on the chuck but sometimes you have to take a chance. DO NOT use the back gear to hold it. You will break gears. Oh... and get help.
@@WinkysWorkshop I like the air impact tool idea - and that might work without strapping the spindle. How about resting a chuck jaw on the saddle (back side of the lathe, obviously, for unscrewing) then turn the spindle backwards - possibly in back gear and hand winding the pulley shaft ???? It's the jerks that break teeth, not steady pressure. (But it's the jerks that also free seized parts ! - hmm, maybe what you need is simply a couple of jerks ! LOL)
Well done, nice to watch. Rather straight forward as You planned the order of operations well. At the time 29:50, centerpunching..... What about clamping the pieces together? Any rotation when punching the first holes the remaining holes would be off. Time 32:00.... I hope You didn't turn that piece using the collet chuck... Any collet chuck would indicate low runout....
Hey there was something else I was meaning to ask you. Did you check the runout of the inside taper? I know you checked with a collet but they can be imprecise. I just finished mine and it was a few thou at the front, less than a half on the back - not machined on the centreline. I had to true it up.
I'd say this is probably the case with mine as well although I didn't check it. I compensated by shimming the faceplate. It's very close but not absolute.
@@WinkysWorkshop i thought about shimming but chose to clean it up instead. I used trigonometry to set up a precise 8° compound angle and took a few really light cuts. It cleaned up to virtually zero runout. Definitely worth it if you have the time and desire.
I can’t seem to find a collet chuck for a backing plate like that at all industrial, what do I need to search for? Thanks. Ps love your videos, I learn a lot , self taught retired mechanic.
ER32 goes up to .780" and ER40 goes to 1.024" I think you can also get an oversized ER40 collet to go to 1-1/8" although I don't have one. I think the minimum size is the same but my set of ER40 goes down to 1/8" which is as small as I need.
1. Changewheels - pushing that sliding gear option in changed from your rattling gears to quiet ones - did you notice that ? 2. Have you not considered modifying your spindles in such a way that when something is screwed onto the spindle, you have a locking 'pin' or something to stop it unscrewing when using the lathe in reverse ? (I'll e-mail a 'funny' story about 'reverse' !)
Yes it did... and yes I notice that. 2) yeah... that would be nice. Impossible on the Logan but probably doable on the SB. Yeah... I've had two chucks unscrew. One I noticed and stopped it (threating in reverse) and the other was on my wood lathe. It had something to do with wood coming out of the chuck. I hit the safe which only kills the power (no brake) and the chuck when rolling on the floor. Still not sure why it did that. I was glad it didn;t land on my toe
I worked for a magazine printer as a pressman and later as a troubleshooter. I have no formal education but I was engineering improvements for the presses - I LEARNED a lot!
@@millomweb No, repulsion induction motors don't have them. I don't know about much motors but I do know that these motors were considered a work of genius by some. Several motor geeks have commented about the sound... like, "ah, I love the sound of a repulsion induction". They used to be much more common. The two negatives are, they have brushed that either run full time or retract after starting. The ones that run full time do nothing while the motor is running but never the less they do ware and the ones that retract sometimes fail when the mechanism wears or gets dirty. The other negative is that you have to move the brushed to reverse the motor and they have no means to reverse by wiring. If you watch closely in some of my videos you will see a lever going to my motor. It looks like a shifter. This moves the brushes so the motor will reverse. I've had a lot of these motors in the past. They end up in scrap yards when the brush retract mechanisms get fowled by mud dabbers.... an easy fix!
@@WinkysWorkshop Does yours lift the brushes ? I'm going to say it does - and that's what gives it the jerky start ! Switching over from semi-conventional brushed motor to induction. The next question is which mode of operation is the more powerful motor ? The start could be weaker or stronger than the run ! It's a motor type/design I've not come across - so quite interesting. I guess t predates capacitor start - as I guess that'd be the modern equivalent. We had a sanding machine (disc sander) in the school woodwork room that the start capacitor failed. So we just give the motor a spin before pressing the green button. It meant we could start it in either direction - a good thing ? cos we could then use both 'sides' of the disc !
@@millomweb - No, my brushes run full time. The start is very typical of this type motor. The brushes are only connected to each other but there is something called a necklace that is contained by a spring made like a rubber band. When it expands it disconnects the armature. Here's a video where I worked on the motor a while back. czcams.com/video/_LM-tmLb_ic/video.html
Sir do you know what I can do to make a 9” chuck run true? I have a 10” heavy Southbend lathe to make tools and parts for my gunsmith shop. I’m 71 years old and a 100% disabled veteran. I like watching you podcasts.
There are not perfect 3 jaw chucks and they change with diameter to some degree. You can grind the insides clamping surface or even use a boring bar if the jaws are not too hard. The trick to being successful is to load the jaws as if they are clamping a bar. I saw somebody do this by drilling holes in the tops of the jaws, installing roll pins and then clamping the pins on a ring. The possible problem with this approach is that you are pushing out on the ends of the jaws and not in the middle. Run a search on grinding jaws.
@@Bullseyegunsmithing Then getting things centered should not be a problem. If the problem is that the stock is cocked in the chuck the same fix applies. Sometimes you can put the jaws in a mill and square the clamping surface but this doesn't take into account wear in the chuck.
Winky, I don't know why you Americans are so obsessed with transfer punches. All you get is a small mark for your drill to wander from. You already had a drill jig in the form of the collet plate, with the clearance drill spot through 1 hole to full diameter. Continue through with the tapping drill, then tap the hole. Fit a bolt and lock it down. Spot through the other two holes, the parts can not rotate, drill and tap the other two holes. The bolts MUST line up as they were done from the collet part. Although I live in Australia, I originally came from England, in my 35 Years of engineering I have never even seen a transfer punch. You just can not beat spotting through any holes if you have the other part, any errors in its manufacture of hole spacing will not matter as long as you ALWAYS align the same two holes. I know that in your instance you were drilling clearance holes in your backplate, but you could have spotted through the chuck with the tapping drill, then open it up to clearance. Fit a bolt to stop any rotation, then spot through the other two holes. That runout error could be allowed as the Chinese parts are often only accurate to 0.002" TIR. You get what you pay for. I noticed that you never took and Spring cuts as you were threading, that last 0.005" cut sounded very heavy. Great outcome anyway. Regards from Australia.
Yeah... the last cut on the threads was .005". I didn't take a spring cut because I was paranoid about going too big. I love my transfer punches! Haha... Although, in this case you are correct, I would have been better off using a drill. The primary problem I have with transfer punches is fit in the hole. If the fit is snug they work fine. After drilling the holes (and enlarging them) I found the holes in the check were not located correctly. One was in toward the center and the spacing was not the same. Of course I assumed they were correct and that my holes were off and enlarged the holes. It seems like a well made chuck otherwise.
@@65cj55 I TOTALLY disagree. I have NEVER used one, but looking at them all they are is a rod that fits the hole with a center point ground on it. So all you end up with is an indentation of where the center of the hole is. When you start to drill, even with a center drill, you still have the possibility of it WANDERING off, especially if the drill is blunt or sharpened incorrectly. So spotting through the part is ALWAYS the best option as the drill can NOT wander off from center. Are you a Professionally trained engineer ? I did 40 Years as a Toolroom Engineer in England, so I DO know what I am talking about and that it is Industry Standard Practice to spot through parts unless every item is accurately machined to Spec and should fit.
@@daveticehurst4191 They make it much easier, Whinky didn't seem to use the right size, i've been using transfer punches and screws for well over 40yrs, putting drills though pre-drilled, machined or threaded holes is not good practice, just because you did it, it doesn't make it right.
@@65cj55 - Yes... my punch was a little too small and it would have worked much better if the transfer punch was the correct size. But I also agree with Dave, spotting the hole with the correct size drill works very well. Especially when given the choice of using the correct drill size vs an undersize punch. Of course this doesn't mean I'm tossing the transfer punches.
This is easy to do later. Just undercut the register slightly if needed. If everything is right no adjust should be needed. Mine was nearly dead on at the chuck but off several thou 10 inches out. I put a .001" under one bolt. It's near perfect now.
To cut right hand threads move you compound back to 29.5 square the tool post square with the chuck .Flip your threading tool over so you can cut threads on the back side .By doing this you can see what you are doing..Use your saddle screw not your compound .set your compound to 0 and leave it..Your dial on the cross feed is what you use the cut the depth of your thread Not the compound....When you touch off on your scratch pass Take a sharpe and mark the slide so when you back out you can return to the same place each time.By cutting your threads this way you can see what you are doing.Your way you can not see the thread being cut....
I don't mind not being able to see although I really can if needed. I have better luck feeding with the compound. When you feed with the cross slide you are cutting on both sides of the tool. Also, the tool is not as well supported when flipped over. Dovetails do well under compression and not so well when lifted. Cut off works exceptional from the back side although my cross slide doesn't have the needed travel. Internal thread with the tool flipped causes the tool to dig in if there is any movement in your slides. I have never had issues cutting threads like this but have had terrible results feeling with the cross slide.
@@WinkysWorkshop I don’t know about your drill but mine tends to flex at the table quite a bit, so not good for long holes. Either way the video was very helpful so thank you.
I spoke too soon -- looking at those chucks again - I see these other collet chucks still use a backing plate that one has to finish out for colinearity reasons. So the only difference here is you made the plate instead of buying it with the collet chuck. So - nevermind. LOL
The biggest advantage to the ER collet is that they clamp from the front so you can put stock all the way through the spindle bore but they also have an overlapping clamping range. Other style collets will not allow you to clamp odd sizes.
@@WinkysWorkshop I had been thinking about collets in the lathe - but did not like the through the spindle clamping mechanisms. Had not even realized about faceplates set up for collets until I saw your video; a MUCH better way - at least for hobby work. ...learning as I go -- really appreciate your tutorials. ==== The ER collets you talk about the overlapping of clamping range -- I presumed that would be true of 5C collects and others as well. So are 5C collets more restrictive as to size? Was thinking going 5C as largest size is 1 1/8" versus 1" for the ER40 sets -- but the ability of going between the sizes is actually more important because we can't always know the OD of what we will be working on.
Did it ever occur to you Winkers that if the work piece in the collet chuck did run out even .002" it would be impossible to get the work piece to run true.........that is why, when you fit a lathe chuck, or a collet chuck in this instance, to a threaded spindle, it is advisable to make the spigot (mounting) diam .005" smaller than the bore of the back plate......this will allow you to " correct" any work piece run out to zero by slackening the holding screws and bumping the chuck to zero with a soft hammer.
If the chuck is made well this isn't necessary. I'm not sure why you brought up the threaded mount. If the thread is a good fit it's the same as any other mount. Undercutting the register is an option if it is necessary but this is something I don't like to do. There is always a chance that the chuck will move under load. Even on a good 3 jaw there is usually .002 to .005" variation in the clamping range so adding the .005" usually has no advantage. I did add a shim (.001") under one bolt on the collet chuck. It had a little wobble 8 inches away from the collet. Really, in my opinion, the ideal way to fix a problem in a collet chuck is to clamp it on a bar chucked between centers and reface the back of the collet chuck. I didn't have a suitable bar to do this. Don't get me wrong, I would under sizing the back plate if needed, I'd just rather not.
@@WinkysWorkshop It works even for new chucks that have a small runout.....as I said, if it's as little as .002" you will be vexed if you can't " adjust" the chuck to run dead true...........most chucks after a bit of use will run out on some diams more than others and it's when you do a second op on a part that the run out is not acceptable when you can " adjust " it to run dead true. This is especially critical with a dividing head as a gear mounted on a mandrel held in the 3 jaw just has to run 100% true........I've seen people banging against a jaw to attempt to get it to run true.
@@gangleweed I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying I'm going to make the chuck fit the plate perfect unless I need the adjustment. It takes minutes to under cut a shoulder if needed. 3 or 4 bolts and the chuck is removed. My collet chuck is now running perfect without being undersized. Yes I had to shim under one bolt to achieve this but this is preferable to under sizing in my opinion. This is not a right or wrong... I simple prefer to do this as needed.
My problem is coming up with the raw material to make an adapter of my chuck to my rotary table. By the way it gave me a headache thinking about setting your lathe up to thread it.🤕🤣
29:20 That was a 'fit' until you hit it with the emery - it was a little tight - but also, it was a little warm ! Let it cool and it'd be spot on, no emery necessary !
Ha... I thought the same. As it turned out I had to reduced the size slightly more and bump it off center and add a shim. The chuck was crooked, not by much but it was consistent. I even tried cutting the plate a bit (not the diameter ) and about 10 inches out on a good bar is was .015" out. I added .001" shim on one side and undercut the diameter about .002 and then got it all to line up. As near as I could tell it was off the same way with all sizes. It's near perfect now. I probably need to pin it in place but I have the bolts good and tight.
@@WinkysWorkshop Fair comment if the thing's not true. Easy fix - mount it BACKWARDS ! Stick a big rod in the 3-jaw, turn that true and to a collet size - then assemble the the collet chuck and mount it on the bar in the three-jaw - then true up the back of the collet chuck ! - If that was the issue !
@@millomweb I actually started to do this but I needed a straight bar. I had one but it had bolt holes in the end. I could have dealt with that... maybe plugged the hole and drilled a center. I know it was the chuck. I moved it on the face plate and the run out stayed with the chuck. A .001" shim between two of the 3 mounting bolts fixed the .015" I had at the end of the 12 inch bar but it made the .001 I had at the chuck more like .0025" For now it's dead on but if I have problems I may try this again. In hide sight I should have mounted a 1-1/8" bar in the chuck and let it stick out 3 inches. Then turn it down to 1" and mount the chuck backward. 1-inch would have been plenty rigid to fix the chuck without a the tail stock.
Yep... took a short cut. Part is the reason was the holes in the chuck were not symmetrical. Of course I didn't not think to check this. Also the transfer punches were a little small (empirical vs metric). I should done it on the mill or clamped it together and used the back chuck as the guide. The later would have been easiest.
*"Your other right!"* 😀 😁
Glad to see I'm not alone in that area!
😁
Mark, one way to approach this in regards to transfer punches... punch, drill and tap your first hole. Thread up the chuck, then punch for your subsequent holes. Your workpiece isn't likely to shift that way.
Anyways, nice work as always
Great tip! That would have been the best.
Gday Winky, nice job, the runout could be in the collet as well, Cheers
Hello Matty, I ended up putting a .001 shim between the chuck and back plate. The run out wasn't very bad but it's near perfect now. The quality of these collets is amazing. Very consistent. I marked the chuck and tried 4 sizes and the run out was in the same spot every times.
Man, what a great job. I didn’t know about the collet bearing-style nut. I’m ordering one now. Thanks 🙏
It works great! And thanks!
Glad to see you made it home from the Flywheeler show. It was nice to meet you in person.
Great to meet you also. I had a great time.
Mark, as always "I Like It". I don't know if we tell you enough, but you are a great teacher. Of course it's fun to showcase the things we make for our audience, but you never forget to pass on your knowledge in an easy to follow and understand manner, with all of those seeking to learn what is something taken for granted as we become proficient. So from me and all those silent but grateful listeners out there, Thank you. Gilles (PS: I'd love it if you'd have a peek over my side of the fence if you have a chance).
You are too kind! Just watched you cutoff tool video. I love the HSS with cobalt with the T shaped 3/32" blade although I think mine is 3/4" tall. I usually part off at a feed rate of .001 per revolution and 170 RPM but 800 works a little better for 1" dia or smaller. I use the 170 so I don't sling oil everywhere. I have never had luck with the quick change tool holders although I have not tried them on my South Bend, only my Logan. I designed a direct mount blade holder that worked well and more recently a spring cutoff tool for the quick change. So far its worked fantastic.
@@WinkysWorkshop I definitely have to make a tool like yours. I'm also going to engineer a carbide cutoff holder. The one I bought didn't last.
Thanks for inviting us into your shop to spend some time. Always enjoyable!
Any time! Thanks for watching!
Way to go Winky. Another excellent machining project done. I am sure you will get a lot of good use from that chuck.
I hope so! Thanks Harold.
Outstanding job! I've seen a few of these but your video was the easiest to follow by a good bit. Thanks for taking the extra time to record, edit and share!
You're very welcome. Thanks for the compliment!
I've been watching how to set up for long time never seen your outside setup on tool before. Cool cheap easy and works 😊. Thanks will use it on my lathe in my shop when i can learn to cut threads. Keep the good work going 👍. Knowledge acquired and will share 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent job winky, great video, keep'um coming..
Thank you! Will do!
Nice Job Mark! That has been on my list for a while.
Mine too... but it finally happened.
You are full of all kinds of updates here these days my friend. Thus chuck is going to see A LOT OF USE EH. Mine sure did. I don't know how I ever did without one.
I've been wanting one of these for a long time and finally did it.
@@WinkysWorkshop We will spend a few thousand on a machine and 10x that and more in tooling over the years. The we most times have to make the adaptors etc to make them work. It is like creating xmas all year round eh, LOL.
@@TomokosEnterprize Heck yeah!
@@WinkysWorkshop I am thinking now that 10x is pretty light, esp for the lathe and mill. I can only imagine the cost of a couple sets of gauge pins, Round and rectangle standards. 5, min sets of cobalt drill bits, The never ending purchase of tool bit holders and new bits that are forever coming on the market. There's an idea for a video you can do my friend. Take care bud.
Nice job, Mark. Inspiring me to make one of these now!
Go for it! It's not hard, just time consuming. The hardest part for me is the mounting bolts. Also, make sure you make the doughnut on the back small enough so you have room for the bolts.
As i watch you make this a bit at a loss but i have a China mini lathe so different but alike so much knowledge im geting from you. Built my own 4 jaw adapter to my lathe years back . Ya a good teacher show ya mistakes and corrections good knowledge ya give us that seak to learn. Thank you for giving what you know to us . Its valued and will be shared to the next
Thanks for the great comment!
Nice one Mark ! Turned out great 👍👍
So far I love it! Thanks
I built two so I can use Collets on my Sheldon 10" and my Atlas 12" - this is a great addition to those machines capabilities. I have run out under .0005 on the Sheldon, and right at .))! for the Atlas. The Atlas bearings are probably the source of most of that. You do good practical projects. Thank you.
Thanks... Yeah, I worked on mine a little, it's less than .0005" now. The chuck itself was a little out but as near as I can tell the collets are perfect.
Nicely done project. It was good to talk with you at the Flywheelers show.....Dave
Yes for sure, I wish we had talked longer. You have a totally amazing shop!
Exactly what I needed - thank you 😊
You're welcome. I love this collet chuck!
Great information, I see that my next project is. Not that I didn’t have enough to do already. Thanks
I know about having too many projects!!! Ha... Thanks for watching.
I was able to make a double chuck holder for the motor side of the spindle of a small lathe (made in China) using this video as a reference. Cutting M45x1.5 threads was very difficult! thank you!
Thats great!
Another great instructive video. I recently fitted a similar ER32 collet chuck to my large lathe. The backing plate is held in a 200mm 3 jaw chuck. However I made the chuck a "zero adjust" chuck like the more expensive 3 jaw chucks. That way any runout can be simply dialled out with four centering screws. If you follow the lead of many lathe manufacturers the collet chuck is a loose fit on the backing plate (say 1mm diametral clearance) . To centre, back off holding screws and tap chuck to get running true. Once zero runout is achieved, tighten up the chuck holding screws. Cheers John
Yeah... I ende up undercutting the plate about .0015 so that I could tap it onto alignment. Also added a .001" shim in one edge. Its near perfect now.
Great Job Mark. Looks Great and Works Great. I think the Runout will be less once your able to check correctly. Thanks for making the Video. I have to do the same thing, and it’s nice to see how you did it.👍
After finding some linear rail rod I ended up shimming on one edge a small amount (.001) buy it was very close. I love this chuck!
Enjoyed this video sir great job
Thanks David
33:40 To finish off with - a bit of lube on the threads (spindle nose and collet nut) and skim the 'back' faces of the backplate just so all the unimportant faces appear to run true.
Thanks !
Yeah, I thought a light skim off the face last operation would have been a good practice.
@@stevewilliams2498 - I'm not sure which face you mean but I probably did this and didn't show it on camera.
One more great video! Thank you!
My pleasure! Thanks
Hello Mark,
Nicely done there... I am sure it will be a great addition to your lathe...
Take care.
Paul,,
Thanks 👍 Yes... it's very nice.
Nice addition to the shop. A end mill should be about as round as anything else for checking runout. As always I enjoyed the video.
Very true. I found some 3/4" rod from a linear slide. I have to work on the alignment a bit more but it's near perfect now
Mark your temperament is a hell of a lot more mellow than mine. When that counter-bored hole blew out I think I wiped a tear from my eye. I would have been ranting expletives so loud my shop walls would have shook! To get that far along (the final operations) with no mishaps and then...Grrrr!*!XX*!! See, I did it for ya! 😁
Wakodahatchee Chris
Haha.. This temperament was developed while being an web offset pressman and being with my ex wife.
Thanks, very good, I have been considering some ER collets so this has helped. 2.836" is 72mm (72.03) which I think is a pretty standard size register for 4" / 100mm chucks. People could buy a commercial plate in this size if they did not have the skills or resources to do a great job like you did.
Thanks Robert, yes buying a back plate would speed things up a lot.
Enjoyed…great video production/discussion demonstration/build
Thanks!
Good job, a very useful project.
I use an ER32 on my mini lathe. I bought a chuck that fits straight onto the spindle. I also use an R8 ER32 chuck in my mill so they can share the collets. Runout on the lathe is a fantastic 0.01mm and bit more on the mill. The trick with ER collets is to keep them clean, treating them to an ultrasonic clean now and again gets the tiny hard-to-get-at muck out of them, use a mild detergent and very thin coat of oil to stop rust, there's a CZcams video showing this but I ca't remeber who or when 🤔. Also look out for ER square and hexagon blocks to cut flats on round stock making them versatile.
The point Winky made about ball bearing nuts is worth knowing to get good clamping on hard materials such as end mills. Another good point is noting that the slots are cut from the front and the back alternately which gives even clamping along the length if the collet and allows a bigger clamping range, usually 1mm (40thou).
I like it as well 😁.
Update: the ultrasonic cleaning of ER collets and the nuts was by Stefan Gotteswinter. Here is the video, fast forward to 12:00 for the ultrasound cleaning segment.
czcams.com/video/jkHQq0L5aDk/video.html
Thanks Les. Yes I need to get some hex black.
@@WinkysWorkshop I think you mean hex block. They are very useful and saves fiddling around indexing.
Keep your inventive ideas coming please.
@@lesmaybury793 _ ah... yep!
I love that old lathe, looks like the South bend 9" lathes that we had in the school metal work shop back in the mid 50's .......I have a 1930 Colchester Bantam and it's much like that one with the twin raised Vees for the carriage slideways.........mostly these older lathes have a back gear and for low down speed and torque you just don't get it on cheap lathes that are on the market now......can't think why it's not a refit feature, it's easily retrofitted.
I love the old iron as well and yes, for the money you usually end up with a better machine.
Hello Mark. Nice looking project there. I have two suggestions. You can use your digital calipers to function like a dro when making the stub to fit onto the er collet body. Measure the diameter of the recess and then zero the calipers. Now measure the diameter of the backplate and the calipers will show the amount to be removed ( the difference in diameters) to make the stub. Divide that in half to get the radius to be removed. The other suggestion is to( I am sure you did this) take a break and let the backplate cool down to room temp before the final cuts. The stub will shrink enough to be noticeable if you cut straight to the final dimension while the part is still warm/hot from the cutting action
I like the caliper tip - and yes, I've commented - no need for the emery, it was a fit as it was - if he'd allowed it to cool ! And perhaps a bit of lube when fitting it !
I forget about using the calipers like that but it's a good idea. The steel was warm but not hot... but you are right, it would change a little. I ended up making it undersized anyway to get the collet centered. Also shimmed it a little.
@@WinkysWorkshop I did the same thing for my Precision Mathews lathe some time ago. Overshot and cut it too small "on purpose - hehe" but it turned out to be needed just like you said, as it gives me some play to adjust to zero run-out.
Thanks for sharing.
Great video Mark. 👍🏻
Thanks Dave!
I liked it! Nice one!
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi. The "unthreaded part" you refer to is the register. I made an ER32 collet chuck for my Boxford lathe a few years ago. Love your videos. All the best. Jim in the U.K. I paused the video at 20 minutes to write the first part of this message and 1minute after restarting it you called it a register. Serves me right for jumping the gun.
There is some disagreement about the unthreaded part of the spindle. The back flange is what I called the register. It squares the chuck. The unthreaded area according to some does nothing. Apparently the threads center the chuck. Logan Actuator (Of Logan lathes) said you can bore the unthreaded part .020" over without consequence. I've never tried this.
That happens to me too !
(Former ML7 owner (sort of) - upgraded to a Student !)
Nicely done, Mark, great video. I have the 2-S set, but missing a few collets from it. Maybe I'll find the missing sizes some day.
Thanks Ray, yes, it would be nice to have a full set.
Nice work!
Thanks! I love these collets!
Nice Work as usual.
Thanks again!
Thank You, Great video.
Thanks, now that I have had this collet chuck for a while I can't imagine being without it. It's amazing.
I use a piston wrist pin that is dedicated to checking runout.
That would work well. I found a piece of 3/4 bar used for linear rails that worked well.
To check the collet chuck concentricity make a skim pass on your rod and then turn the rod around in the chuck, now recheck your concentricity. That is why I like ER collets; they have .040” range!
That would work. Mine is very slightly off. I was thinking about getting turning a 1 inch shaft between centers and turning it true and then mounting the collet chuck (minus the plate) on the shaft and turning the back of the plate true.
Tolerance on cheap collets are about 0.005 - 0.01mm, so 1 thou is pretty good. Nice work.
Actually the collets are perfect. Of course I have not tested them all but I have checked maybe 5 of them and they are all the same .001 in the same direction (the chuck). The collet quality is shockingly good!
@@WinkysWorkshop wow that's amazing, got a link ?
Didn't you hear us all shouting "the other right" ?
My OCD is really struggling with the layout in your box of collets.
I do hope you will arrange them in size order soon.
Ha... they are in order of size now. I hope you are feeling better now.
I done something alike for a 5C chuck
I overcome the excentricity problem with a very simple solution,
What I done is that my faceplate is 2 inch bigger diameter than the chuck body and I do not use the register,
the chuck is recessed in the backplate with a play of 0.005" on the diameter and I use 4 brass tipped 1/2-20 set screws to make the fine concentricity adjustment.
is it a bit more work but it permits to set the concentricity to " 0 " the way we do it with a 4 jaw chuck and it permits to compensate for the slop on the spindle thread and the chuck construction.
very good video
Yep, I was close but I ended up doing the same. Thanks!
19:15 "It's just a hair tight" - try it with some oil on the threads - it'll work wonders!
I did
@@WinkysWorkshop Did it work wonders ?
@@millomweb Of course! I knew from experience that the slight roughness on the threads would smooth out anyway... although I have made the assumption in the past an been wrong. It's a matter of degree. Watch the video closely and you will see where i oiled the threads.
@@WinkysWorkshop We got a new electric drill with fold-away handle. Unfold and lock in place with a plastic-topped brass screw. That screw was stiff - and I thought it'd ride up with wear - but it annoyed me - so it got oiled - made a big difference !
I also like it!!!
That's good! Thanks
Mark
Thanks. Your reply was very helpful. Another question - I have an old four jaw chuck for a threaded spindle and I want to use it on my Jet 1340 GHE lathe. How can I make the pins that have a half circle on their side which is part of the chuck locking mechanism to the spindle? Your videos are very helpful thanks.
Thanks Frank, all I have ever had is screw on chucks so I'm not much help. Sorry.
good video mark
Thanks 👍
Great video... I like it when you don't edit out your mistakes.... you're really up front. Did you post or can you post links to the chuck, bearing collet nut and collets.
I probably should have. The nut and chuck I bought on ebay and the collets were bought from All Industrial.
Looks good Mark
Thanks. Bummer on your mill lead screw!
@@WinkysWorkshop luckily it was a easy fix.
@@metalworksmachineshop - No kidding!
@@WinkysWorkshop sheared a taper pin.
30:40 another choice would be ..... transfer punch one hole. Drill it and bolt it. Then transfer the rest so it can't move on you.
That's a good method. I messed up but in this case the holes were also not drilled right in the chuck. Crazy huh?
@@WinkysWorkshop in that case your gear hole pattern system might not have matched up anyway then.
@@dizzolve Yeah... I think I would have been closer but you are correct.
Use a good dowel pin.
Nice build.
Thanks,
JohnB
Yeah... I didn't have one. Later I found a 3/4" hardened bar for a linear rail. I ended up shimming one edge a little but it within .0005 now. Even 10" away from the chuck.
It would sure be nice to see a video of you doing that. I am waiting for a collet chuck to arrive so will have to make one. Thanks for the video.
Dale in Canada 🇨🇦
@@dalemcinnes1834 I may do that.
Nice video
Thanks
Looks like the compound was set to 60 instead of 30 degrees? Or was it just the camera angle?
You can check the chuck run out directly by indicating the inner cone with no collet in place
No, it was 29.5 degrees but i have screwed up before. It makes some weird looking threads.
I use ER-40 collets on both my lathe and my mill. I like them because with the duel slotting from both front and back they tighten up radially over the whole surface. Most other collets are only slotted from the front and tighten up only at the front face unless your stock has the perfect OD to match the bore of the collet you are using.
One possible detractor of ER collets is the fact that your stock or end mill must go all the way though the collet. Should your stock or end mill be too short to do this you run the risk of the collet slipping and whatever you are holding can and will slip. I learned this when I first started using them and had some milled pieces ruined when the end mill dropped down and took a bigger bite than expected.
I've used them with fairly short stock in the lathe... maybe .500" into the collet but holding an end mill is probably a little more critical, especially carbide. I love these collets but I see no reason to change to these collets on my mill.
well done
Thanks John
great vid Winky, I might make one myself. I have a few spare gauge pins to give you if you'd like.
Thanks for the offer but I found a linear bearing shaft forked very well.
@@WinkysWorkshop oh good, I figure that's a lot straighter and flatter, how did it look with the indicator on it?
@@tilliesinabottle I had to shim one edge with a .001 shim. The bar was about .012" out 10 inches from the chuck. It's within .0005 now.
I'm a novice...was wondering what kind of collet setup to get...now I know. Thanks.
Your welcome!
Hi, thanks for the helpful videos. What is the name of the magnificent lathe you use?
Magnificent? Ha, yes its a nice looking lathe. I love old machinery. They took the extra steps to make them look nice. It is a 1931 South Bend 11" model 84A.
me suscribo saludos desde argentina
Welcome aboard!
At (min 33.22) I started wondering if there was a bit of slop in the lathe spindle...cold rolled just picking that up..which is giving you the extra thousandths out? It is an cool antique lathe.
After making this video I found a suitable 3/4" bar and I ended up shimming one edge with a .002" It's near perfect now. There is .0015 slop in the spindle but it doesn't show up unless you pry up on the spindle. This clearance is needed for an oil film.
ER40 chuck is one of the best upgrades I made to my lathe. Not sure if you got the full range of collets there, my set goes from 3mm to 30mm.
Up to 1". I think I'm missing one collet.
@@WinkysWorkshop I think up to 1" (25mm on a metric set) is the standard range, then you can buy an extra set of 5 or 6 to take you up to 30mm. Worth looking out for, I use those largeer sizes a lot of holding square or hex stock.
how are you liking the southbend now that you have a good amount of time on it? compared to the logan
I love it... However I miss having two lathes and the south bend has more wear. The SB is much more solid as well but the Logan was more accurate.
Cool Video. What is the namebrand of your ball bearing ER40 collet nut? Do you have a link you could share?
Honestly I have no idea. Wait, I just looked it up on ebay, it says RMCS ER40GM NUT. Item number 124432892130. Sometimes Utube deletes links.
What is that drill called that you used to make flat bottom holes for the socket cap bolts?
Thanks for taking so much time on the threading portion. I've just made threads for the first time a couple of weeks ago. How you did it cleared up some issues I had.
That's great on the threading. Threading is one of those thing that get much easier the more you do it. The bit I used was a counter bore. You drill a standard hole first and then the counterbore bit has a pilot the goes into the hole you drilled. They make them with a solid pilot or with a pilot that you can change. I recommend a solid pilot. You may have noticed I flooded the bit with oil. If you don't do this the pilot will grab and break off. Mine do not have the solid pilot.
@@WinkysWorkshop I have a mini lathe with a metric lead screw. It doesn't have a threading dial. I asked the sellers about this and they didn't have an answer other than that "it doesn't exist". I very much doubt that is true. Do you know what is involved with making a threading dial? I was considering making one, but I don't really know what I should expect.
@@de-bodgery I've made 2 in the past but they were both imperial and not metric. You can still thread on your lathe but you have to run the lathe in reverse and never disengage the carriage. The hard part of making a thread dial is the gear. You need to find a lathe with a threading dial that has same pitch lead screw you have on your. Then you can count the number of teeth and diameter and then find a gear. Making the rest is fairly easy.
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes...that's what I have been doing. I never disengage the lead screw until I'm done cutting threads. My very first threads were 1mm reverse...so that was interesting to learn. I've since refined how to do it much better, but until I saw this video, I was not using my compound correctly.
***
I am currently building a tool post mounted grinder attachment for other uses with my lathe. I think with that I can grind pinions and other gears. Ive already added a rotary table to the out feed side of the spindle bore that is easy to disengage. This allows me precise degrees of rotation of the spindle for keyways and other things I'll do on my lathe. The grinder will be the primary tool for cutting the features the rotary table defines. Once it is further along, I'll make a video of it on my channel.
Nice work - love seeing the operation.
🤥 But being new to this I'm a little confused - why didn't you just buy a collet chuck that fits the threading on your spindle?
Seems they have them for many different types including Logans. The approach in the video appears to be more work and more places for slop in view of the collet chuck then mounting to this face plate.
Good question! but I see you answer it. They do make a collet chuck that fits the threaded spindle but they are hard to find and don't fit the 1-5/8 spindle on my South Bend 11. They are made by a company named Beal.
Awesome video. Now I have to build one. Please list your source for the collets. Carl
The nut was ebay item number 124432892130 and the chuck was item number 164005517404. The collets were bought from All Industrial item number 41900
Nice!
Thanks!
33:20 or use a long end mill. I like it
That would work
Where did you get the ball bearing ER40 nut? If you don't mind. I have the same set up for my lathe.
Item number 124432892130 on ebay
I've had my old South Bend for about 30 years now, and I have never been able to get the check off. Kind of afraid to break something, any suggestions?
Yes, first soak it with Aero Kroil. It's high priced but very good. Soak it periodically for about a week. Then put a piece of 1-inch (or larger) hex stock stock in the chuck and tighten firmly. Put a strap wrench around the large pully on the spindle and use an air impact on the hex. I did this on mine. It's not good on the chuck but sometimes you have to take a chance. DO NOT use the back gear to hold it. You will break gears. Oh... and get help.
@@WinkysWorkshop I like the air impact tool idea - and that might work without strapping the spindle.
How about resting a chuck jaw on the saddle (back side of the lathe, obviously, for unscrewing) then turn the spindle backwards - possibly in back gear and hand winding the pulley shaft ???? It's the jerks that break teeth, not steady pressure.
(But it's the jerks that also free seized parts ! - hmm, maybe what you need is simply a couple of jerks ! LOL)
@@millomweb It might work... although it would not on mine.
where did you get the ball bearing nut?
Ebay item number 124432892130. I'll bet the seller is selling a few of them now. You are the 4th or 5th to ask!
Well done, nice to watch. Rather straight forward as You planned the order of operations well.
At the time 29:50, centerpunching..... What about clamping the pieces together? Any rotation when punching the first holes the remaining holes would be off.
Time 32:00.... I hope You didn't turn that piece using the collet chuck... Any collet chuck would indicate low runout....
Thanks! You're right on the transfer punch. I got sloppy on the holes. No I was indicating cold rolled... not ideal but its all I had.
Where did you get that nice south bend?
I bought it for $100 bucks a few years ago but it didn't look anything like it does now.
33:25 Test piece - turn it between centres and try again with a clean bit of rod.
Right
Hey there was something else I was meaning to ask you. Did you check the runout of the inside taper? I know you checked with a collet but they can be imprecise. I just finished mine and it was a few thou at the front, less than a half on the back - not machined on the centreline. I had to true it up.
I'd say this is probably the case with mine as well although I didn't check it. I compensated by shimming the faceplate. It's very close but not absolute.
@@WinkysWorkshop i thought about shimming but chose to clean it up instead. I used trigonometry to set up a precise 8° compound angle and took a few really light cuts. It cleaned up to virtually zero runout. Definitely worth it if you have the time and desire.
@@freestyla101 I can see where this would be the best method for sure.
I can’t seem to find a collet chuck for a backing plate like that at all industrial, what do I need to search for? Thanks. Ps love your videos, I learn a lot , self taught retired mechanic.
Thanks Danny, I bought the collets at All Industrial. The chuck and bearing nut came from ebay.
@@WinkysWorkshop ok thanks so much, keep up the good work. 👍
@@dannyspencer3303 Your welcome, sorry I didn't make the sources more clear in my video. Thanks
Mark,,
What’s the difference between er40 and er32 or other numbers?
ER32 goes up to .780" and ER40 goes to 1.024" I think you can also get an oversized ER40 collet to go to 1-1/8" although I don't have one. I think the minimum size is the same but my set of ER40 goes down to 1/8" which is as small as I need.
1. Changewheels - pushing that sliding gear option in changed from your rattling gears to quiet ones - did you notice that ?
2. Have you not considered modifying your spindles in such a way that when something is screwed onto the spindle, you have a locking 'pin' or something to stop it unscrewing when using the lathe in reverse ? (I'll e-mail a 'funny' story about 'reverse' !)
Yes it did... and yes I notice that. 2) yeah... that would be nice. Impossible on the Logan but probably doable on the SB. Yeah... I've had two chucks unscrew. One I noticed and stopped it (threating in reverse) and the other was on my wood lathe. It had something to do with wood coming out of the chuck. I hit the safe which only kills the power (no brake) and the chuck when rolling on the floor. Still not sure why it did that. I was glad it didn;t land on my toe
@@WinkysWorkshop Perhaps you can dance !
"Where I used to work."
What did you do before you retired?
I worked for a magazine printer as a pressman and later as a troubleshooter. I have no formal education but I was engineering improvements for the presses - I LEARNED a lot!
@@WinkysWorkshop Us printers had to be jack of all trades. You get semi good that way.
@@blfstk1 You got that right!
I'm guessing that lathe has a capacitor to start it. I wonder if it's the optimum value as it doesn't start as smoothly as I'm sure it could.
It's a typical repulsion induction motor. Very old, weighs about 80lbs and it's only 1/2 HP. It matches the lathe well. Oh... no capacitors.
@@WinkysWorkshop No capacitors at all ! I wonder if it should have !
@@millomweb No, repulsion induction motors don't have them. I don't know about much motors but I do know that these motors were considered a work of genius by some. Several motor geeks have commented about the sound... like, "ah, I love the sound of a repulsion induction". They used to be much more common. The two negatives are, they have brushed that either run full time or retract after starting. The ones that run full time do nothing while the motor is running but never the less they do ware and the ones that retract sometimes fail when the mechanism wears or gets dirty. The other negative is that you have to move the brushed to reverse the motor and they have no means to reverse by wiring. If you watch closely in some of my videos you will see a lever going to my motor. It looks like a shifter. This moves the brushes so the motor will reverse. I've had a lot of these motors in the past. They end up in scrap yards when the brush retract mechanisms get fowled by mud dabbers.... an easy fix!
@@WinkysWorkshop Does yours lift the brushes ? I'm going to say it does - and that's what gives it the jerky start ! Switching over from semi-conventional brushed motor to induction. The next question is which mode of operation is the more powerful motor ? The start could be weaker or stronger than the run !
It's a motor type/design I've not come across - so quite interesting. I guess t predates capacitor start - as I guess that'd be the modern equivalent.
We had a sanding machine (disc sander) in the school woodwork room that the start capacitor failed. So we just give the motor a spin before pressing the green button. It meant we could start it in either direction - a good thing ? cos we could then use both 'sides' of the disc !
@@millomweb - No, my brushes run full time. The start is very typical of this type motor. The brushes are only connected to each other but there is something called a necklace that is contained by a spring made like a rubber band. When it expands it disconnects the armature. Here's a video where I worked on the motor a while back. czcams.com/video/_LM-tmLb_ic/video.html
Sir do you know what I can do to make a 9” chuck run true? I have a 10” heavy Southbend lathe to make tools and parts for my gunsmith shop. I’m 71 years old and a 100% disabled veteran. I like watching you podcasts.
There are not perfect 3 jaw chucks and they change with diameter to some degree. You can grind the insides clamping surface or even use a boring bar if the jaws are not too hard. The trick to being successful is to load the jaws as if they are clamping a bar. I saw somebody do this by drilling holes in the tops of the jaws, installing roll pins and then clamping the pins on a ring. The possible problem with this approach is that you are pushing out on the ends of the jaws and not in the middle. Run a search on grinding jaws.
@@WinkysWorkshop it is a 4 jaw independent closing 9” diameter.
@@Bullseyegunsmithing Then getting things centered should not be a problem. If the problem is that the stock is cocked in the chuck the same fix applies. Sometimes you can put the jaws in a mill and square the clamping surface but this doesn't take into account wear in the chuck.
Winky, I don't know why you Americans are so obsessed with transfer punches. All you get is a small mark for your drill to wander from. You already had a drill jig in the form of the collet plate, with the clearance drill spot through 1 hole to full diameter. Continue through with the tapping drill, then tap the hole. Fit a bolt and lock it down. Spot through the other two holes, the parts can not rotate, drill and tap the other two holes. The bolts MUST line up as they were done from the collet part. Although I live in Australia, I originally came from England, in my 35 Years of engineering I have never even seen a transfer punch. You just can not beat spotting through any holes if you have the other part, any errors in its manufacture of hole spacing will not matter as long as you ALWAYS align the same two holes. I know that in your instance you were drilling clearance holes in your backplate, but you could have spotted through the chuck with the tapping drill, then open it up to clearance. Fit a bolt to stop any rotation, then spot through the other two holes. That runout error could be allowed as the Chinese parts are often only accurate to 0.002" TIR. You get what you pay for. I noticed that you never took and Spring cuts as you were threading, that last 0.005" cut sounded very heavy. Great outcome anyway. Regards from Australia.
Yeah... the last cut on the threads was .005". I didn't take a spring cut because I was paranoid about going too big. I love my transfer punches! Haha... Although, in this case you are correct, I would have been better off using a drill. The primary problem I have with transfer punches is fit in the hole. If the fit is snug they work fine. After drilling the holes (and enlarging them) I found the holes in the check were not located correctly. One was in toward the center and the spacing was not the same. Of course I assumed they were correct and that my holes were off and enlarged the holes. It seems like a well made chuck otherwise.
Transfer punches are the correct method.
@@65cj55 I TOTALLY disagree. I have NEVER used one, but looking at them all they are is a rod that fits the hole with a center point ground on it. So all you end up with is an indentation of where the center of the hole is. When you start to drill, even with a center drill, you still have the possibility of it WANDERING off, especially if the drill is blunt or sharpened incorrectly. So spotting through the part is ALWAYS the best option as the drill can NOT wander off from center. Are you a Professionally trained engineer ? I did 40 Years as a Toolroom Engineer in England, so I DO know what I am talking about and that it is Industry Standard Practice to spot through parts unless every item is accurately machined to Spec and should fit.
@@daveticehurst4191 They make it much easier, Whinky didn't seem to use the right size, i've been using transfer punches and screws for well over 40yrs, putting drills though pre-drilled, machined or threaded holes is not good practice, just because you did it, it doesn't make it right.
@@65cj55 - Yes... my punch was a little too small and it would have worked much better if the transfer punch was the correct size. But I also agree with Dave, spotting the hole with the correct size drill works very well. Especially when given the choice of using the correct drill size vs an undersize punch. Of course this doesn't mean I'm tossing the transfer punches.
you could have done what i did & ues the 3 out side hols on the chuck to as adjustment screws & clock it in. lick the Buck chuck. les England
This is easy to do later. Just undercut the register slightly if needed. If everything is right no adjust should be needed. Mine was nearly dead on at the chuck but off several thou 10 inches out. I put a .001" under one bolt. It's near perfect now.
I did the same mate
Very cool... I like mine
To cut right hand threads move you compound back to 29.5 square the tool post square with the chuck .Flip your threading tool over so you can cut threads on the back side .By doing this you can see what you are doing..Use your saddle screw not your compound .set your compound to 0 and leave it..Your dial on the cross feed is what you use the cut the depth of your thread Not the compound....When you touch off on your scratch pass Take a sharpe and mark the slide so when you back out you can return to the same place each time.By cutting your threads this way you can see what you are doing.Your way you can not see the thread being cut....
I don't mind not being able to see although I really can if needed. I have better luck feeding with the compound. When you feed with the cross slide you are cutting on both sides of the tool. Also, the tool is not as well supported when flipped over. Dovetails do well under compression and not so well when lifted. Cut off works exceptional from the back side although my cross slide doesn't have the needed travel. Internal thread with the tool flipped causes the tool to dig in if there is any movement in your slides. I have never had issues cutting threads like this but have had terrible results feeling with the cross slide.
I wonder if the drill press didn’t drill perpendicular and that’s why you broke through on the edges
I think you are correct. It probably moved in the vise.
@@WinkysWorkshop I don’t know about your drill but mine tends to flex at the table quite a bit, so not good for long holes. Either way the video was very helpful so thank you.
@@freestyla101 This could have been a contributing factor. My square column drill press has issues with this if I get too aggressive.
I spoke too soon -- looking at those chucks again - I see these other collet chucks still use a backing plate that one has to finish out for colinearity reasons. So the only difference here is you made the plate instead of buying it with the collet chuck. So - nevermind. LOL
The biggest advantage to the ER collet is that they clamp from the front so you can put stock all the way through the spindle bore but they also have an overlapping clamping range. Other style collets will not allow you to clamp odd sizes.
@@WinkysWorkshop I had been thinking about collets in the lathe - but did not like the through the spindle clamping mechanisms. Had not even realized about faceplates set up for collets until I saw your video; a MUCH better way - at least for hobby work. ...learning as I go -- really appreciate your tutorials.
==== The ER collets you talk about the overlapping of clamping range -- I presumed that would be true of 5C collects and others as well.
So are 5C collets more restrictive as to size? Was thinking going 5C as largest size is 1 1/8" versus 1" for the ER40 sets -- but the ability of going between the sizes is actually more important because we can't always know the OD of what we will be working on.
Did it ever occur to you Winkers that if the work piece in the collet chuck did run out even .002" it would be impossible to get the work piece to run true.........that is why, when you fit a lathe chuck, or a collet chuck in this instance, to a threaded spindle, it is advisable to make the spigot (mounting) diam .005" smaller than the bore of the back plate......this will allow you to " correct" any work piece run out to zero by slackening the holding screws and bumping the chuck to zero with a soft hammer.
If the chuck is made well this isn't necessary. I'm not sure why you brought up the threaded mount. If the thread is a good fit it's the same as any other mount. Undercutting the register is an option if it is necessary but this is something I don't like to do. There is always a chance that the chuck will move under load. Even on a good 3 jaw there is usually .002 to .005" variation in the clamping range so adding the .005" usually has no advantage. I did add a shim (.001") under one bolt on the collet chuck. It had a little wobble 8 inches away from the collet. Really, in my opinion, the ideal way to fix a problem in a collet chuck is to clamp it on a bar chucked between centers and reface the back of the collet chuck. I didn't have a suitable bar to do this. Don't get me wrong, I would under sizing the back plate if needed, I'd just rather not.
@@WinkysWorkshop It works even for new chucks that have a small runout.....as I said, if it's as little as .002" you will be vexed if you can't " adjust" the chuck to run dead true...........most chucks after a bit of use will run out on some diams more than others and it's when you do a second op on a part that the run out is not acceptable when you can " adjust " it to run dead true.
This is especially critical with a dividing head as a gear mounted on a mandrel held in the 3 jaw just has to run 100% true........I've seen people banging against a jaw to attempt to get it to run true.
@@gangleweed I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying I'm going to make the chuck fit the plate perfect unless I need the adjustment. It takes minutes to under cut a shoulder if needed. 3 or 4 bolts and the chuck is removed. My collet chuck is now running perfect without being undersized. Yes I had to shim under one bolt to achieve this but this is preferable to under sizing in my opinion. This is not a right or wrong... I simple prefer to do this as needed.
My problem is coming up with the raw material to make an adapter of my chuck to my rotary table. By the way it gave me a headache thinking about setting your lathe up to thread it.🤕🤣
Gave you a headache??? Funny, how come?
@@WinkysWorkshop Lots of things to adjust on your lathe to thread, especially remembering your other right.🤣 I'd need a wall chart check list.😥
@@gvet47 Yeah... I forget the silly stuff.
29:20 That was a 'fit' until you hit it with the emery - it was a little tight - but also, it was a little warm ! Let it cool and it'd be spot on, no emery necessary !
Ha... I thought the same. As it turned out I had to reduced the size slightly more and bump it off center and add a shim. The chuck was crooked, not by much but it was consistent. I even tried cutting the plate a bit (not the diameter ) and about 10 inches out on a good bar is was .015" out. I added .001" shim on one side and undercut the diameter about .002 and then got it all to line up. As near as I could tell it was off the same way with all sizes. It's near perfect now. I probably need to pin it in place but I have the bolts good and tight.
@@WinkysWorkshop Fair comment if the thing's not true. Easy fix - mount it BACKWARDS !
Stick a big rod in the 3-jaw, turn that true and to a collet size - then assemble the the collet chuck and mount it on the bar in the three-jaw - then true up the back of the collet chuck ! - If that was the issue !
@@millomweb I actually started to do this but I needed a straight bar. I had one but it had bolt holes in the end. I could have dealt with that... maybe plugged the hole and drilled a center. I know it was the chuck. I moved it on the face plate and the run out stayed with the chuck. A .001" shim between two of the 3 mounting bolts fixed the .015" I had at the end of the 12 inch bar but it made the .001 I had at the chuck more like .0025" For now it's dead on but if I have problems I may try this again. In hide sight I should have mounted a 1-1/8" bar in the chuck and let it stick out 3 inches. Then turn it down to 1" and mount the chuck backward. 1-inch would have been plenty rigid to fix the chuck without a the tail stock.
@@WinkysWorkshop Mounting backwards - is 1" the largest collet you have for it ?
@@millomweb Yes backwards and yes, 1-inch is the standard largest collet although I heard they make an oversized 1-1/8".
you got off because you free hand drilled, always hard fixture parts in a drill press
Yep... took a short cut. Part is the reason was the holes in the chuck were not symmetrical. Of course I didn't not think to check this. Also the transfer punches were a little small (empirical vs metric). I should done it on the mill or clamped it together and used the back chuck as the guide. The later would have been easiest.
Doing it your way there is to much to remember...To easy to for get were your at.
It's good for my brain... actually it's automatic now.