What if Turkey Were Huge or Poland Were a Superpower? - Alternate Countries
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2024
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In this episode, we dive into four intriguing mini scenarios:
The Ottoman Empire Survives and Reforms:
What if Turkey or Türkiye maintained its power and reformed into a modern state?
Sweden Wins the Great Northern War:
Imagine Scandinavia united under Swedish rule.
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth Dominates Eastern Europe:
What if this powerful union remained a dominant force in Eastern Europe?
Denmark Retains Its Core Medieval & Early Modern Territories:
Explore a world where Denmark keeps its historical territories.
#neatling #alternatehistory #history
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Also stay tuned for a full-length alternate history scenario before the end of the month!
Poland as a free, democratic, classical liberal alternative superpower/competitor to the US would be the closest we could ever get to an actual utopia/better alternative timeline.
That's how I as a Swede thought Sweden looked like when I was 5 or something.
The shape is just soo, really fucking fire
Better than the modern…unfortunate shape when you look at its empire then look at it after loosing Finland when remembering neutering is a thing.
Poland-Sweden Union is still my favourite alternate history scenario
What If the scramble for Africa never happened
That would be interesting.
Africa will probably have more population and can be as rich as the Europeans
@@blackcreepereditsnplayz_yt579ironically, probably not. Would be far too decentralized, especially in the more interior regions and countries. As such, it would be harder to modernize, get the ball rolling on advancing in terms on industry, medicine, business, etc on top of standard other features, the list goes on. By extension, you’d have perhaps less population and almost certainly less wealth. Some of the coastal areas might be somewhat similar to even then, that might be less likely that you might think. Maybe some of the North African countries might end up somewhat similar to today (Morocco for example), but there probably the only super region there. Ironically, on top of all that, it might be even easier to control and exploit by outside powers since it’d be easier (especially with modern technologies) to keep rulers of smaller nations “in line” off hand than it would be with the leader of a more modernized relatively speaking centralized large country, or to have to send over a governor. You’d also probably end up with a lot more regions that look like (what people think as) Somalia (in the sense of a lot of conflict between groups, not necessarily in the sense of a civil war) than you would with, say, modern Botswana and the old great nations that are often thought about like the Kilwa sultanate or the Zulu kingdom/empire wouldn’t be likely to survive intact long term either into a more modernized context as things were either, regardless of if the scramble for Africa or not.
@@youthoughtaboutit6946 You do have a point. I just hope at this Alternate Universe the word Racist and other bad word with starts with a N would not be created.
@@blackcreepereditsnplayz_yt579Racism is not excluding blacks. And in Spanish or Italian "negro" or "nero" are simply the color black. And they are not racist
Carl XVI Gustaf most likely wouldn't be the monarch of Sweden if Sweden had been able to keep it's eastern regions. The royal line he comes from became royals a few years after Sweden lost Finland in 1809, and Carl IV Adolf was dethroned in a coup.
Only joined your channel a few weeks ago but have been really impressed so far. You are so succinct in your reasoning and they feel very believable. In some cases, the decisions or events in history that led to these scenarios are smaller than people would think.
I've said it and I'll say it again
neatling alt hist videos give me another reason to wake up in the morning
thank you for what you do 💚
I would really like to see his take on an alternative history with sweden, rather a continuation of what was in this video.
It is strange that in almost all alternative histories, where Moscow loses to Poland and becomes part of it, Poland does not expand into Siberia. The valuable sable fur came from Siberia, so anyone in Russia's place, whether Poland or Sweden, will expand eastward to control as many sable habitats as possible
In my scenario I imagine Poland does expand into Siberia, but eventually loses it as Cossack settlers in Siberia push for more sovereignty. With the capital in Warsaw and more of a focus on the west, Poland eventually allows the Cossack state in Siberia to leave the Commonwealth.
But there is a good argument for them also just keeping Siberia, maybe just less than Russia IRL. I just wanted to take their bigger focus on the west into consideration. But of course that could just mean no Vladivostok, and very limited if any pacific coast settlement, with most of Siberia still being Polish.
@@Neatling This time it'd not only be Cossacks, but many nobles venturing there though. In order establish good control over Russia Polish crown would have to deal with the noble rule (and Cossacks) and reform institutions. Perhaps as nobles and Cossacks could be given a land to settle where they could govern with a lesser government oversight. At least until Commonwealth wouldn't be able to fully solidify their control there
The Dammed Dane has upoloaded once again time to party
He’s a Dane?! 😳
@@jordandino417 Yah he's danish
I love your channel all your maps look incredible by any chance do you have a Reddit or somewhere for fan suggestions again I love your work
Can you do a p2 of what if the western Roman empire surviving instead of the east?
Nice video!
In my opinion, this “super Poland” should get:
-more territory in the west: part of former German Empire east of the Elbe and Saale + Bornholm + part of Jutland (only the eastward expansion is strange).
-less territory in the east: no land east of approximately Petersburg-Kazan-Volgograd-Astrachan line (border on rivers, mainly the Volga).
-Larger population: Poland's population in video is smaller than the actual population of this territory. Such a strong Poland should have at least 350-400 million.
-polonisation of Bohemia + most of German territory + Lithuania + now Russian-speaking territories (after adjusting borders).
Names of regions "Greater and smaller Poland" should be "Poland proper" and "Ukraine". Greater and smaller Poland are historical region that are few times smaller and are located in todays polish border.
I was aware Greater and Lesser Poland are historical regions that are smaller and inside modern Poland. But from my research when making this video, I gathered the terms may have had different meanings in the past, as I found several maps which labeled other broader regions greater and lesser Poland.
On the Wikipedia article "Subdivisions of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth" is where I got the idea for the region names used here. In that article there is a map where the Commonwealth is divided into 4 provinces (Greater Poland, Lesser Poland, Lithuania, and Livonia).
Given I don't know Polish I obviously lack a lot of context and the ability to fully understand all sources available. But that's why I decided to go with Greater and Lesser Poland, as much of Ukraine on that map was a part of the province of "Małopolska".
@@Neatling Thank you for this explanation, now I understand the reasons for this choice.
The capital of Lesser Poland was Krakow (today's Lesser Poland Voivodeship), which in your administrative division was in “Greater Poland.” If the part of today's Poland that was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire before World War I had been part of Lesser Poland, this division would have been fine. That is why I recommended a different name for this territory.
IMO I would divide such a huge country into more than 10 territories/provinces.
Thank you for yet another fascinating video! It's interesting, in particular, to wonder about all the ways the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire might have gone differently. I can imagine a lot of modern history would've gone very differently in the Polish-Lithuanian scenario.
God be with you out there, everybody. ✝️ :)
How about if china remained more divided pre ming dynasty.
you should do “what if texas remained independent” that would be a cool concept on how it effects the united states and the rest of the world
Next do big France and Big Germany
At what point this Turkey took over Iranian Azerbaijan? It couldn't have been during WWI, a neutral Ottoman empire isn't gonna dare invade Iran which was under British and Russian influence. Also why they don't have the Hejaz and the holy cities? If they can control the much more populace Levant and Mesopotamia they can control the far less populated Arabia.
It would probably take place after the Soviet invasion of Iran. When Soviets retreated due to American pressure, Azerbaijanis of Iran and Russia revolted to join Western-allied Turkey which gave way for the loss of South Azerbaijan for Iran. Eh I dunno.
@Dr-Ekmek Well, that makes no sense either. Iranian Azerbaijan had no desires of separatism. The secessionist government Stalin propped up in Tabriz had little to no public support. The Kurdish separatist state they created in Mahabad had a continuous legacy in the for of the Democrat party of Iranian Kurdistan who rebelled post 79 revolution and are still active. Meanwhile, nothing of the Azerbaijani party was left anytime after their fall in 46. The Azerbaijani nationalism is Iran is a new phenomenon that has only come to being in the last two decades from propaganda produced in Baku.
Turkey participating in the 1941 invasion of Iran and proping up a puppet separatist regime I their occupation zone is more likely. However I doubt even if they join the invasion I doubt the British and the Soviets would allow it, and Turkey would not be strong enough to argue. Also the 1941 invasion of Iran was a cake walk, the Soviets and the British wouldn't need any help from Turkey.
And finally, Soviet Azerbaijan revolting is impossible to succeed. If the Soviets could put down rebellions from Eastern Europeans they would defeat any rebellion in the much more integrated Azerbaijan way easier. The annexation of the Caucasian lands much happen during Russian Civil War.
What if Bulgaria replaced Turkey as ruler of the Balkans from 1400 to 1900 but instead was more prosperous?
What if the Hundred Years War never happened?
What if neatling wasnt obsessed with Scandinavia
A tiny bit more detail pls
What kind of details would you like to see? I'll take it into consideration for the next mini scenarios video :)
I think that if Poland absorbed Russia by inheriting Russian throne, then it'd stil try expanding into the Asia and Balkans because it'd also inherit some of the Russian ambitions and geopolitical situation. I bet that they'd try to push into Balkans all the way to Constantinople (because Pan-Slavism and Third Rome would kick in) and into Siberia regardless. Even if the state didn't do that, Cossacks and now also Szlachta would totally try colonising everything beyond Ural because of the potential money from the fur trade (and trade in general)
i have a question, how do you get the population and the gdp?
of the whole country ofc
I calculate it myself. Mostly based on real world numbers of the regions the country encompasses, but often altered based on the different history.
I was literally thinking of this scenario for the Ottoman Empire just yesterday lol. However, maybe the name could still be called the Ottoman Republic. Also would this version of the Ottoman Empire be considered Asian or European?
What if Timur conquered China?
I hope I make the video
Whatifalthist liked that
polen
0:14 0:28 Israel left the chat
Can we get an Alt Hist video on Bohemia Staying a Regional Power. And not becoming Czech Republic instead the Bohemian Republican.
I wonder if we could have an alternate Central Europe where rather than having a unified Germany, there would be several German states, each in a union with a non-german state. Sort of like Austria-Hungary. Prussia-Poland, Saxony-Bohemia, a Union of Burgundy with Rhein valley states and Belgium, Pomeranian states somehow related to Sweden or Denmark.
Azerbaijani is not a turkish language!!!!!Why did you fuse our nationality to turks???
Why do Armenians make up such a small percentage of the population?
They “disappeared”
one day we will be empire
ROTFL!