16 Days Before the Surfside Collapse - The Warning Signs Were There
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2022
- Watch till the end, you will want to see these newly released photos.
Thank you to the Miami Herald writers:
Sarah Blaskey, Ben Conarck, and Nicholas Nehamas
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𝙈𝙞𝙡𝙡𝙚𝙣𝙣𝙞𝙪𝙢 𝙏𝙤𝙬𝙚𝙧 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• Millennium Tower
𝘾𝙝𝙖𝙢𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙞𝙣 𝙏𝙤𝙬𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙎𝙤𝙪𝙩𝙝 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• Champlain Towers South
𝙊𝙣 𝙋𝙤𝙞𝙣𝙩 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• On Point
𝙊𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙅𝙤𝙗 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• On the Job
𝙊𝙣𝙚 𝙤𝙣 𝙊𝙣𝙚 𝙥𝙡𝙖𝙮𝙡𝙞𝙨𝙩:
• One on One
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Disclaimer: Nothing contained within this video should be construed as legal advice. Building Integrity makes no claims of its own regarding the guilt or innocence or liability otherwise of any legal entities mentioned in any of their videos. These videos are made for news/informational and educational purposes only.
I see a lot of comments/questions regarding spherical aberration or lense distortion causing the appearance of paver sag in the photos. This was considered but not discussed in the video. I found no other signs of lense curvature aberrations when I looked at other straight lines in the photos. In addition, barrel distortion tends to be worse toward the perimeter of a photo with modern phone cameras, not toward the center. Field distortion without barrel distortion is uncommon and I haven't seen this with other photos taken with phone cameras. For reference, I am a landscape and architectural photographer in my spare time. 😀
Thanks for the clarification.
Excellent description of photography aberrations Josh.
Was the saga going away from the drains or towards them?
Thank you for addressing this. I still think it is a consideration for the work you are attempting here. I think it was a mistake not to address this concern in the video itself if you were aware of the issue. If architectural photography is your hobby, you probably have a pretty good idea of what a quality lens is with minimal barrel distortion. “Worse towards the perimeter” does not mean accurate closer to the center, unless you can check the lens itself for accuracy. You’re being a bit hand-wavy about this and normally you’re pretty rigorous. Just as not all interchangeable lenses are not created equal, neither a phone camera lenses.
But other than that one small thing, great job on this series!
My theory is the live load caused by the parking spaces on the other side of the planter caused the collapse. Average vehicle weights have done nothing but climb since the building was designed to the point that those few parking spaces could well have several more tons of live load moving about than was considered when designed.
I'm a highrise window cleaner,and I'm on ropes every day on the side of condo's and I've seen and know of plenty of condos that have structural damage on the buildings,and I'm shocked that since this has happened that these condos are not addressed! I've turned down jobs because of how bad the damage is on the parapet walls,so bad that I do not trust the parapet to even hold my ropes!
For those buildings many owners/renters are likely not aware. I would inform local news stations of your concerns. People like yourself who see buildings in ways the rest of us don't can be highly important in bringing awareness and proper repairs in a timely manner.
(as someone who used to have her windows cleaned on the 23rd floor, TY! Your job scares the heebie jeevies out of me.)
@@DobviewsI understand what you mean! But the property managers are more than aware of the conditions of these condo's,I know that first hand! I've pointed out to the property managers on the condos the reason I will not clean the windows,and not one shows concern! Alot of condo property managers do not have the skills it takes to be a property manager but yet there employed as a property manager. There should be extensive training for a position as a property manager! There are so many condos without proper property management! There should be a way to put these property management employees on some kind of list they all will be on and kept a record of names of each condo and then there should be building inspections on every single condo in the United States! ! ! ! !
@@Daniel-213 Again, this is why I would inform local news. They could embarass them into proper action. Glad you at least know the signs to look for, they should have inspections before even asking you to do a job!
You are very wise avoiding those buildings. If you are seeing issues - and the managers don't really care to do anything! It could be far worse in an area you haven't seen yet!! I am glad you have told the managers!! I think you are using your head as to not become a statistic!
@@Daniel-213 I spent 3 years as Condo/hoa property manager, I figured with my 30 years of construction background as a Glass and Glazing contractor it would be a sure fit. Boy was I wrong. While some of the condo boards actually though it was a great thing to have me as a PM, the management company was more concerned with condo violations, trash, pets and power washing. Generating reports that were billed to the association, holding meetings, and walking the properties looking for violators of the rules. The majority of the PM's that I ran into did not know their ass from their elbow as far as proper building maintenance. The majority have no business being a PM I had my own rappel gear to inspect window leaks and building issues, but was told not to do that. Many times calling out residents who installed tile or carpet on their balcony, and lamenting that I should mind my own business when advising them it was in violation of the docs and a hazard as well. Actually caught a pool contractor trying to screw the board by saying the drain was cracked and needed replacing. I dove the pool and saw for myself it was just fine.
It was way too stressful, with all the bickering assholes both on the boards and the residents. If that building had a PM that was qualified and had construction experience I'd bet it would still be standing, or it would have been evacuated way sooner.
Before I watched this series, I never paid much attention to concrete in parking garages but now I do.
Yes, I was in a hospital parking garage that highly concerned me. Because of the Surfside collapse, I pay close attention to everything. They were indeed doing construction on it on a different level, so I pray that they notice what I did.
If you can explain a structural engineering issue in a way a “normal human” can understand it, you’ve done great! I am not an engineer, I’m a nature photographer!
Nature does have a way of designing structures that don't fall down easily - wasp nests, bird nests, spider webs...I would bet you have an intuitive sense of structural engineering now. 🏜👩🦳🌻🦋
@@ellenkass9410 No need to be Krass
Heh
Am a biologist, still understood everything.
I'm an electrical engineer, not a primary English speaker, and I understood everything.
I'm a psychologist/anthropologist. But I want to know why things work beyond just humans.
Retired commercial architect here, with high-rise experience. I’ve really enjoyed watching all the analyses you and others have done on this time-bomb of a disaster. I say time bomb because from what I’ve seen, there are so very many design, construction and post-construction errors here, it’s unconscionable.
1. Having columns that don’t even line up from floor to floor is so completely 100% negligent, it defies logic. Both the structural engineer and architect are responsible here, as well as the contractor for not even noticing.
2. Having a developer act as his own contractor is going to result in short-cuts that can and will jeopardize any number of things. We ran into this same problem back in the 80s. The photo of the rusty door hinges is indicative of how the developer/contractor chose not to spend what he should have spent on stainless steel hardware in a seasalt environment. He likely made unwise cost cuts elsewhere.
3. PLANTERS: Nothing but a huge permanent wet load on a structure not designed to carry anything near that heavy. If they weren’t shown on the original construction documents, it’s almost guaranteed they weren’t included in the structural calculations. Further, it appears they had no beams or thicker slabs under them. The cracks ion the planter walls didn’t cause a failure - they were a result of the increasing failure of the deck supporting them.
4. A flat plane construction is fine, but there were no thickened slabs around the tops of the columns, thus helping facilitate the punching shear. Was there any standing-water test of the waterproofing membrane prior to pavers being placed over it?…I doubt it. ($$$)
5. The structure for the pool deck and the structure for the tower should never have been connected, but separated by a 1” expansion joint. It’s quite obvious that the collapse of the pool deck imposed an adverse lateral force on the perimeter columns supporting the tower, in effect “pulling the legs out” from under the tower.
6. Painting the ceiling of the garage - actually the bottom of the slab above - just served to hold excess moisture within the slab rather than letting it “breathe”. It wouldn’t have saved things long-term, however.
7. Financially, whenever you have multiple condo owners, no one wants to pay for the magnitude of repairs it would have taken to stave off a catastrophe. It’s only possible to kick that can down the road until failure results.
These are just some of the things I noticed: I’m sure there were likely more.
Agreed. ❤
The biggest thing this channel gets right is conveying that a building is essentially a machine with moving parts, not a static structure like most would imagine.
Concrete should only move where designed to do so, though.
@@CTimmerman it's bending and flexing imperceptibly all the time, that's more of what I mean.
@@tissuepaper9962 Now i wonder how castles do without expansion joints.
@@CTimmerman They probably just bend and bow. I do live in an old house (about 200 years old), and I swear the house is breathing with the seasons. In summer every door opens smoothly. Each winter the doors are stuck half-open. The ground flour obviously buckles if cold, because the house tries to shrink in the cold, and it expands again in warmer times.
Now, this old house is bricks and timber, a combination that seems to be flexible enough to survive this kind of activity for centuries. Maybe the old castles show the same behavior. They mostly are stone on the outside, but timber on the inside.
@@machandelverlagcharlotteer8698 stone on the outside would likely keep temperatures pretty stable inside.
As a security guard, this is complete neglect on multiple levels. Security, facilities, management, HOA, and ownership. This level of damage should be obvious to anyone a professional needs to look at the damage.
hence the billion dollar settlement.
Also a security guard, I have seen this stuff on other buildings I worked on too pretty scary stuff.
Rome rotted from within. No different than what you are experiencing today. Incapable incompetent Yes Men fill every and all corporates positions. Each of them terrified to stand up to the next in fear of losing the cushy lifestyle they didnt earn and cant understand how they fell into it.
@Aluzky every HOA has people that run it. often enough we see that board abuse it powers and be shady with its money.
From what I have heard the board that was incharge durign the collapse had recently gained power. the PREVIOUS board spent money on beauty renovations rather then maintance. many were not happy about that so the board was removed but sadly to late. However the building as designed and built is flawed. Like any disaster many thigns came into play on this.
I do not understand why the security company paid 1/4 (25%) of the civil suit...paying over 500 million dollars. They did not maintain build or design the sorry built condo.
I'm not an engineer but I'm a horticulturist with almost 40 years in the field and I would have dismissed offhand the suggestion that those Scheffleras could cause that much root lifting. Had there been trees there, or even larger shrubs with more massive roots it would be more likely, but not with that plant's root system.
True, a plants root system is pretty strong. In fact it's strong enough to competly deform an entire road, but I also doubt those Scheffleras would have caused THAT much root damage.
I have no experience in any of these fields, but when I heard that my first thought was, "If this is root infiltration, where are the roots?"
@@Dragonk116 expansion is expansion.
@@Frommerman under the ground, where the footer is supposed to be. you dolt.
@@DieselRamcharger and a Pinto & a Lamborghini are both cars. Some plants have stronger roots than others, fairly easy concept to understand.
My late father was a civil engineer. Your analysis gives me a new level of respect for the work he did. Thanks for that.
My late father was, also. 👍💯❤
@@a1c3c3u No. My point is just that Josh Porter's discussion gives me a better idea of the technical knowledge my father had to have, and the analytical processes he went through to do his work.
Why is he late?
And for what?
The same with me, regarding my late uncle Stan, who was a civil engineer.
@@a1c3c3u I did.
You have a very good memory. Not many people would be willing to put the real picture up after spending five minutes trying to describe it by memory. But it did confirm you had seen it and you know what you are talking about as there is no way I could have described it in that level of detail. But I'm also not a civil engineer.
I felt it was useful and important to leave the original commentary up. I could have easily re-recorded once the photo was published but I thought this might be a good low-key lesson for aspiring engineers and reporters to report with integrity.
They should suggest new building engineers spend some time with your videos. They combine deep technical information and common sense as well as situation awareness.
@@BuildingIntegrity Early career engineers should look at this video carefully when you talk about the process of assessment and how a structural engineer pulls the thread to find the mechanism in play. The first engineer who though of an explanation for the observations stopped too soon and before testing the hypothesis. Of course, owners often don't want bad news so messengers may need armor.... :-). Your point about integrity in reporting is also valuable. I often say structural engineering is "honest" because after the failure we learn "the rest of the story".
@@fromthefireside5677agreed, however, if I were an engineering student I would have the curiosity to view videos like this without a pointy headed person requiring me to exercise my curiosity. this is integrity.
@T.J. Kong now we know to demand the real engineer? Senior?!! Jjr?!! do they have titles like this? seriously? disbelieving....
I'm really impressed by your recall of that photo.
That said, this video nearly has me in tears. There were warning signs. There were chances to get out ahead of this and stop it. Someone noticed new damage and was concerned enough to call the engineers to come out again. And that opportunity was missed.
I doubt there will be criminal charges unless it's shown that someone was intentionally hiding how badly this building had deteriorated.
That's the issue with this building collapse. Deterioration. That and shoddy workmanship. NOT buildings next door!!!! That has to be the biggest load o cobblers I've ever heard.
There was a deadly lack of imagination: the idea of the building collapsing was incomprehensible - & so they didn't see it when it was right in front of them.
The Owners were also at fault
It's a bit much to expect people to think that a crack will lead to a collapse of the building. There were signs of distress and damage, but not things that would normally lead people to think that complete failure was about to happen.
warnimg signs are one thing, but how many would have actually heeded them and uprooted themselves over it? americans are largely hardheaded and stubborn as a cultural zeitgeist, and the average floridian moreso than the average american, and especially because these were condos aka property that the tenants living in them likely were the owners of, you would have had to drag them out tooth and nail, kicking and screaming, one by one, back in november 2020
man, I'm a biology major but still found this super interesting. I gotta give props, it's not often you find someone who can clearly and concisely explain engineering and use terminology in a way laypeople can understand.
as a psychology major, i strongly agree
As a non-heteronormative interpretive dance major, I agree.
I agree. He would make an excellent lecturer.
As a baccalaureate of science in nursing degree recipient, I also strongly agree!!! 😜
You're being trained to know what a woman is.
I an an architect with much experience on older existing buildings. I think that the design issue that hasn't been addressed enough is the lack of a functional building expsnion joint between the pool deck and the building at Surfside. The high rise building and the deck have fundamentally different loading and movement characteristics, even when new. The original design should have included a building expansion joint that would have structurally separated the residential portion of the building from the exterior deck. IF there had been, in effect, two separate structures side-by-side the pool deck could have collapsed without bringing down the towers.
I think those buildings were intentionally brought down and the higher ups ALL covered it up. When you look at the video of the first building coming down, you see how it looked EXACTLY like an orchestrated, professional, IMPLOSION. Starting by the lights turning on then off in order from floor to floor. Then you had the Governor blabbing and not saying much, and then you had the Cava lady who either didn't know what was going on, or was definitely lying about it. First, she said it would take ten days to be able to bring down the other building, and all of a sudden she said they would do it overnight. All the while, they refused for the owners to get some belongings, citing "dangerous conditions", when in reality they had already wired the building to implode, but hadn't announced it. So if it was supposed to take ten days to prepare for implosion, how were they able to finish it so fast? Also, if it was so dangerous for the victims, how were the workers allowed in? Then, a lot of the victim's belongings started to show up in local pawn shops afterwards. Therefore, those workers who were wiring the building, were also stealing from the victim's homes too! There was also the issue where that particular plot of land was wanted by the developer next door to them. He was still building when this disaster happened. He had initially offered a ridiculously low price per each apartment and he was turned down by the HOA. The ultimate kicker was, that the 40 year inspection did not pass and in prior years the inspector(s) were allegedly paid off to look the other way. Therefore, my instinct leads me to believe that this was all probably orchestrated by the higher ups, the HOA and the developers next door to cover up what actually happened, which was to commander this plot of land at an acceptable financial price so certain people could possibly get kickbacks; even if that meant deaths had to occur to do so. I guess they figured that the moneys the insurance company paid out to the victims, was enough to overlook the deaths. Totally despicable. Hopefully, someday we'll know what really happened.🤔
NYCGUY is right. The concrete slab that made up the pool deck was the same slab that was used for the floors of the first floor in the condo building. It should’ve been a completely separate slab with no tie-ins to the main slab that the building itself was sitting on. That way, when the pool deck slab failed and collapsed, it wouldn’t have had any impact on the building itself. That was an enormous mistake that probably exists the exact same way in the northern tower as well. If that HOA is smart, they will add new pilings under the condo building as well as new, thicker pilings along the edge of the pool deck, separate from the pilings beneath the building itself. Then they need to cut through the entire slab to separate the slab that makes up the first floor of the building from the pool deck. Then if the pool deck ever collapses, it won’t be able to pull down the building as well.
When all these investigations are completed, the answer that’s going to be found is the same one we already know about. The building was structurally sound, but just barely, and only as long as the building was maintained properly and the floors weren’t loaded down with heavy pavers, etc…. The northern tower has received such maintenance. However, the southern tower was seriously abused, and any repairs that were made were done cheaply. Furthermore, the pool deck had been previously overloaded. It’s amazing that it didn’t collapse when all those Palm’s had been planted in the flower boxes. Frankly, the building should’ve failed then.
What I’m most concerned about is the fact that the state had awarded the owners of these condos a settlement amount that should’ve NEVER been offered. First, it greatly exceeded the total amount of insurance the Condo Association had purchased for the entire complex. That’s because the entire building simply wasn’t worth nearly as much as these homeowners were awarded. By offering them this ridiculous settlement price, the court rewarded them for failing to properly maintain their building.Because they most certainly didn’t. Now that cost is going to be recuperated by significantly raising the cost of insurance premiums throughout the state. In other words, anyone who lives in a home owner’s association is going to get slammed with a ridiculous high, unjustified price hike on their complex’s insurance premiums. I live in such a place. We’ve already been warned that our insurance premiums are going to skyrocket because of this building collapse. But we have no such buildings anywhere in our complex. And the few facilities we do have have been rigorously maintained. The people who lived in the collapsed condo didn’t do that. They completely ignored the building as it was falling apart around them. We shouldn’t be expected to bear the brunt of that cost. The Insurance company that insured the building shouldn’t have paid a dime more than the policy was written for. It wasn’t our job to maintain their building, it was there’s. So while it’s a tragedy that so many people were killed, they certainly shouldn’t have profited off a building they allowed to rot right out from beneath themselves. So their deaths, while tragic, are the result of their own negligence. Frankly, they shouldn’t have been allowed to collect anything at all.
@@evettefernandez2749 that’s a lot to say you have no idea what you’re talking about
@@joemungus6063 You must be one of the ones trying to cover it up too. Try researching the material yourself, before running your mouth and spewing lies. Or maybe, you're being paid off to try to intimidate others into not speaking about what is so obvious. Why don't you communicate with a professional before trying to discredit me. Because I certainly spoke to several who were in complete agreement on what happened at that forsaken death site that night.
evettefernandez2749 Exactly what I concluded. The building was demolished. At least one person who it’s claimed died there, I saw alive with my own eyes. It’s possible that other deaths were faked and insurance was collected. Too much to write about it here, but I found a demo company nearby, etc. It was an insurance scam, in short.
The criminal case may be too unsettling to too many entrenched interests. My guess is it will be investigated slowly till the case dies from old age.
Thanks for your organized coherent analysis - consistently informative for non engineers. I wait eagerly for each new release.
From my perspective as an electrical engineer, I know that a lot of the telltale signs of failure are things that aren't taught in engineering school. Instead, engineers need to accumulate years of experience in observing those signs and interpreting what they are pointing to. And a critical part of that experience is exposure to mentors along the way.
So the individual signs easily could have been overlooked or misinterpreted by inexperienced engineers, but taken together, they should clearly have alerted seasoned engineers that something was seriously wrong. The fact that this didn't happen suggests that some combination of factors was at play here - inexperience, negligence, intentional ignorance or even criminal coverup.
As a young engineer, I learned a lot from tying to understand problems in the field. And having access to experienced mentors was invaluable - they helped me see less obvious signs an interpret what it all meant. And at the end of my career, when I was the old guy, I still wanted to have a second set of eyes with me to point out things that I missed, and to have someone to bounce ideas off of when trying to arrive at a final conclusion.
Well said. Sending a Jr Eng to have a look to this ticking bomb and try to blame him is no brainer. They knew it was compromised months before and they did nothing.
Very intelligently stated. A lifetime of experience and well-cultured gut instinct can be infinitely more valuable than "book smarts".
@@Dallas_K It's not 'more valuable'. It's equally necessary to have experience and training. Gut instincts alone output only what guts output. The only time what we call instinct is useful is when it's actually a faster moving version of experience- when you suddenly think 'something is wrong' because you have noticed something and reacted to it so fast even you yourself just haven't observed all the steps as you were doing it. When you think about it afterwards, you can work out what it is you noticed. And noticing is all about experience- and training.
Excellent perspective. I think much of the value of experience is the ability to recognize weak signals, small anomalies or discrepancies that by themselves may not be concerning, but can be early indications of more substantial issues. Too often, such signals are dismissed by pat explanations, like “the garage floods all the time, so of course there’s water.”
@@gizmophoto3577 That's expert intuition. Intuition is your brain adding up a bunch of small or vague things to reach a conclusion, and expert intuition is when that process is learned from a job, rather than general intuition from regular life experience. (I think driving a car is expert intuition, even if it isn't a "job")
I found this excerpt explaining "concrete cancer" interesting..
"Unfortunately, steel rusts. It is prone to corrosion. When pouring a concrete member (such as a slab), it’s critical that the steel reinforcing bars are encased in the concrete with sufficient cover around them to protect the steel from the elements. Concrete is actually permeable, and so moisture and airborne salts (particularly near the ocean) can penetrate the concrete surface and permeate down to the encased steel. Once the moisture reaches the encased steel (particularly if the moisture contains salts), you have a recipe for corrosion.
Once the steel starts to rust, it expands and deforms. The expanding steel can often break or blow out the concrete, causing pieces of the concrete slab to fall away. This is referred to as “spalling”. Naturally, this then increases the steel’s exposure, and the problem is exacerbated. Whilst the problem may initially appear to be an aesthetic or cosmetic concern, the reality is more sinister. The steel bars resist the tension forces in the concrete, and the cross-sectional area of each reinforcing bar works hard to resist the load it has to carry. As the steel rusts away, the effective cross-sectional area of the bar reduces, until - eventually - there is not enough steel remaining intact to resist the forces. At that point, the slab (or beam or column or stair, etc) is now greatly weakened and at risk of sudden failure or collapse."
I have worked concrete construction and concrete cutting. ON I would say 90% of the pours the rebar gets mashed to the bottom of the slab. Even with dobies and chairs and a hook guy at the end of the day the bar is bottomed out. I have cut and removed hundreds of slabs and that is just standard, to be expected.
@@tomjackson4374 In a slab on grade it is not that big an issue as the steel is mainly there to resist heave along cracks which typically produces only a minor force acting on the concrete. Here, the concrete slab was suspended and carried a huge amount of dead load that the steel must resist.
All the rebar should've been stainless steel. Any building within a certain distance from saltwater enviroments should have all 316 stainless to eliminate rust buckling.
Only galvanized rebar, never epoxy must be used. Also sea level rise contributes.
Good description!
Great video. Thanx. I'm not an engineer, but have worked in the excavation field for 50+ years. We see sagging patios, cracked concrete walls, and floors regularly. Not unusual. Usually inadequate compaction, poor soil, different types of soil in the same pour, etc. But when the planter boxes sink 2 in. And there are horizontal cracks. Knowing that there's a garage directly below these cracks. It should send out an immediate and profound UH OH!! The material that was holding that box in place had to go somewhere. I can't imagine myself just passing that off. I think I would RUN down to the garage to find out what's going on. To answer your question. I don't know when incompetence becomes criminal. But this is something that should never have been overlooked.
I'm nothing close to anything comparable to any line of work that would give me the know how of a building, construction, concrete, engineering, or excavator and even I would immediately say Houston, we have a problem. This was absolutely criminal for the love of money. Smh. Sad world we live in.
The incompetence involved is far worse than this video alone communicates. The condition of the cores taken from that area, well in advance of the appearance of these planter cracks, were catastrophic. Total internal delamination from rebar corrosion. Calling for an evacuation may have been alarmist, but immediate rectification was necessary.
I am not an engineer, but my first thought when seeing that 3cm drop between the planter walls was " I hope they went straight down to the parking lot to check underneath". It would appear that for some unexplainable reason they did not. I am shocked that even a junior or trainee engineer did not make that a priority. If I was looking at that, knowing that the wall was sitting on a concrete slab, my curiosity alone would make me want to go look below - especially if it involved a building with know water and cracking issues in the lot below.
I must also say that I noticed the dip in the paving even before you mentioned it, but like you say, it is very hard to say that was not by design to help water to flow to the drains. And would certainly not be a red flag on it's own. But with regards to any criminal negligence, in my eyes the engineering firm involved really should have realised that the building was in a dangerous state. They gave a warning in their original report (2018?), that the problems would get exponentially worse if not dealt with in a timely manner, yet when they are called out to look at a 3cm sheer break in the planter wall they did nothing. The person involved did not even bother to go down and look below - or if they did, they totally failed to recognise just how serious the problem was. Why on earth did they send a trainee, or junior member of staff out to do that inspection when they already knew that the structure had problems? The finger of blame must be pointed at that engineering firm - they were hired to inspect the building, and they totally failed to spot just how bad the situation really was.
Could be it started as a drop for drainage, but that itself contributed to the water seeping through because water was standing there- especially if the drainage point wasn't kept cleared out and running, and so it was sagging even further than the designed fall. A sort of chicken-and-egg problem.
My thought also ... if something moves what shouldn't, I would look downstairs where that three centimeter drop comes from. I live in a similar 40 year old concrete building and the sagging by itself is not unusual if the buttress spacing is great enough it could easily be more. But this sagging occurs right after construction and it is centered in the middle of the slab. If it is centered on a buttress and freshly occurs after decades, there is something very, very wrong ...
Out of curiosity: I live in Germany and in my building the buttresses are connected by beams and the slab is on top of these beams, thus giving the slab a (mostly) 2D-behaviour. Just because 40 or 50 years ago the calculations weren't made in 3D computer modeling and that construction gives you nice to calculate 1D models. A punching failure is also more or less impossible with the amount of rebar in the beams. Is the construction without beams a typical US economical way of building with concrete?
Too much physical labor to go downstairs and check.
@@Starfire3684
Too much brain use as well. We're expwcting too much.
I was in facilities maintenance for 25 years.
Had I seen that broken wall and the spalling in the basement I would have gone door to door telling the tenants. Wasn't that sprinkler pipe broken an hour or so before?
This is by far the best channel on CZcams. Josh is a brilliant structural engineer and has mastered the art of explanation so even the lay-person, such as myself, can understand. Thank you for all the hard work you put into your videos. I'm always excited when I get notified of a new Building Integrity video!
I am not a civil or structural engineer but worked as a technician, designer and drafter as well as a full time on site inspector for 15 years for them; 8 years on the Florida Coasts; later over 55 million dollar jobs for them and architects; later a Building General Contractor in Fl and SC; this man tells it exactly as it was designed, built and fell down. And, we all can understand his way of explaining for those not in this line of work..... PS; rusting steel puts out 40,000 PSI of force; the main cause of the fall damaging too much concrete along with bad design and bad building methods, I believe.
I love how your channel is a sleeper class in scientific thinking, analysis and problem solving. Looking at something vague and making sense through secondary evidence to support it’s relationship to the primary event. As a fellow scientist, i just adore to see some good STEM brain work in action - and you’re making it so accessible and understandable for the laymen. You’re a fantastic science communicator! Loving the methodology and exploring of alternative causes for each piece of the puzzle, and slowly eliminating how they don’t make sense in the greater picture. Taking complex multi-disciplinary problems and making them digestible and thorough is a nerdy sight to see. Just love to watch your work! @Building Integrity
IF you are a 'so called' scientist, you would know that it's called brain stem NOT stem brain..... 🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠
STEM = Science Technology Engineering Mathematics
genius @@mrmustangman
@@mrmustangman you can’t be serious 🤦🏻♂️
@@mrmustangman LOL!!!
As one of the “laymen” you mention - I agree!
Everybody should go through a 3-month education of "thinking like an engineer". So much fighting, hate and conspiracy would disappear from the world if only people would know how to think in a logical timeline, take into account evidence and include some logic. This is why people like these videos, there's a person communication a topic effectively and we can all follow along and get it. That's the way it should be.
Thanks for the kind words!
FAKE NEWS. All engineers are Trump voter, conspiracy theorists regarding everything beyond engineering such as economics, sociology, etc
The Miami Herald has an excellent 12 part podcast “Collapse: Disaster in Surfside”. Your episodes helped me visualize the various scenes and issues they were talking about.
That podcast is where I first learned about the collapse (after hearing a promo for it on a different podcast I listen to and becoming interested), then I came looking for videos to help me understand everything visually. This channel has definitely done an amazing job of explaining everything!
I received many technical briefings over the course of my professional career and I can assure you that I rarely heard any as thorough and easily understood. Thank you for this outstanding work.
I'm fortunate to have worked in commercial and industrial electrical for 34 years. Because, I have a very very good idea of what you are talking about. I was ALWAYS interested in other trades, from ground work, to foundation, crane work, carpentry, etc. I loved it so much. A man that can build and craft is a man like no other.
The sensation of having the ground suddenly dropping out from under one, is a most disorienting experience. I once stepped on a piece of steel plate that had been used to replace a missing manhole cover that suddenly pivoted like a trash can cover. I only suffered scrapes to my shin, but the absolute terror of the moment is something I will always remember. The residents of this tower must still be suffering trauma.
Edgar Allen Poe describes the accumulation of white salts from water soaked mortar as "niter" in his story "The Cask of Amatillado."
Lol. I thought you would refer to "the fall of the house of Usher"
It's almost as bad as realising you're about to step in dogshit when your foot is already on the way down
Same thing happened to my daughter when she stepped on a metal cover where the welding had failed. Down she went into a hole. She caught herself and only went chest deep. Boy, the management that oversees the parking lot where this happened was sure freaked out. Probably thought we were going to sue.
This Series is Excellent!!
Agreed 👍
A underated comment!
"Shout out to this man not only for all the incredible research he has done, but also for patiently and clearly explaining it for lay people to understand" quote from Flo Rida Gal...hits the nail on the head.
Amazing that Josh has time to create CZcams content when his company is fully booked over a year into the future. You rock Josh!
I’m just a smart inquisitive gal with no engineering degree but who is interested in this engineering analysis. I having been following your series and want to thank you for clearly presenting your views and opinions of the photos. We should all be aware of how the world works for our own safety. I find this fascinating and I love the lamps on the credenza behind you!
Kathy. If you can keep that focus you can be an asset wherever you are. Good luck.
I agree with 100% of this. Keep up the good work. We're learning so much!
Guy counterpart, and I concur with you. In my experience, I don't have to be an engineer to be interested and enjoy engineering. While the result was so tragic, what I learn changes how I see and examine the world around me. I am so glad to know someone else appreciates the fluted teardrop lamps with the scaled shades! Cheers to you!
Same! I am also OBSESSED with those lamps!
Same here Kathy. My grandson is 15 & he often mentions that what I listen to is like school. I hope he never stops being interested in his world either. 63 & ever curious!
Knowing there was a garage underneath, I absolutely would have gone down to look at those columns !! I'm really sad that this series had to happen but I love the work you do !!
The sagging was visible to the naked eye, it's incredible it was disregarded...
@@dingdong2103 The people responsible for maintenance and repair of this building disregarded a SPECTACULAR AMOUNT of urgent stuff during its 39 1/2 years of existence.
@@dingdong2103 It was so obvious that I noticed it in the photos before Josh even mentioned it. But I have 17 years experience doing roofing & waterproofing work, so I see issues that Joe Bloggs won't notice until its too late. And I know what to look for to determine the cause. I've told building owners to call in the required professionals more than once, after identifying that problems exist with structure or plumbing etc.
@@johnbergstrom2931 I've sometimes had nightmares of my house collapsing on me and now it actually happened to them... Horrible.
@@dingdong2103 damn... i dont believe in reincarnation but that would be a hell of a case for it.
Just found you on here. I’ve been interested in building stresses since seeing shows on historic buildings and the stresses they endure over long histories . In just an armchair observer, but I could see everything you pointed out as warning signs as alarming. As an ex military aviation mechanic , I am also very aware of stresses through materials. This stuff fascinates me , and I have definitely subscribed.
I've been binge watching your series over the last few days and I have to say this is just fantastic stuff. I'm learning so much and I'm so impressed with how much information you're able to squeeze out of a single photo.
Since pictures of the parking garage seem so important and are few and far between, I'm wondering if anyone's thought to check the remains of the cars for a dashcam. It seems like the perfect place to find daytime 'walkthrough' footage of the garage from the day or days just before the collapse.
I don't think dashcams are working when the cars are switched off. They need power after all.
Thank you for this follow up on Surfside. I was hoping that you were staying on the story and the trail as further information and analysis was available and would be offering it up for consideration. Wonderful video and information yet again. Keep it up!
As a layperson, I have learned so much from these videos. A question: it looks to me that those planter boxes have been restuccoed numerous times. Could earlier smaller cracks there have been an early red flag?
Not only that but why is there a concrete beam on top of CMU? Suggests it was all CMU at some point and they got tired of constantly repairing cracks so they decided to pour a solid cement wall instead.
Love this whole series of yours. I'm no engineer, but grew up with a Physics teacher for a mother, and I solve problems for a living, just not engineering ones. Your explanations are great, your drawings make good sense, and definitely gave me the proper frame of reference to understand what happened.
As I read it, basically, once the slab uncoupled from the perimeter wall, the rest was inevitable as the forces redistributed because they could no longer hold the building together the way they had been, and only that one shear wall was able to slow down that progression of collapse, and that seemed more luck than design.
This was fascinating! I am not an engineer but worked as a Plans Examiner before I retired. Thank you for such a clear presentation.
I don't know about criminal cases, but I am surprised...both in this case, and in the case of the collapse of the pedestrian bridge at FIU, and in the case of the Millennium Tower in San Francisco...how engineering firms are allowed to continue practicing when they have actually committed serious, basic, errors in design or supervision. In the case of the Kansas City Marriot "sky-walk" collapse, the supervising engineer who signed off on the fatal design change surrendered his license and never worked in the field again. Morabito had an ethical and professional duty to ask the deeper questions...and apparently didn't. In the case of the Millennium Tower, the SAME engineer who botched things up continues to supervise the "fix." Why, in the world, when an engineer or firm demonstrates either incompetence, dereliction, or malfeasance are they allowed to continue practicing??? At least a suspension of license while the investigation is ongoing would seem to be prudent.
This can not not be overstated enough. Really important!
This is a different situation than that of the FIU pedestrian bridge because it is not recent construction. There aren't practicing engineers left to pursue... not responsible for the original work, anyway.
To look at things more broadly, developers or building owners are often reluctant to fire an underperforming engineer or designer because they would have to invest in bringing a new consultant up to speed. I work for a civil engineer, and it doesn't happen very often. The new engineer might be technically better, but if the owner stands a good chance of spending more money on the switch, there isn't much motive to change horses.
I guess if an insurer demanded it, it would happen. But that takes time. Often by the time these things are seen, whether or not a disaster happens, the work is uninsurable.
The firm who supervised the FIU debacle got punted from two contracts by TxDOT (Corpus Christi Bridge and the Sam Houston Tollway Ship Channel Bridge). I think every other DOT in the country has cut these folks off (their behavior since doesn't help).
The story behind the FIU pedestrian bridge is maddening to read and the engineering firm behind it was filled with 'diversity hires' fwiw. A horrible design where safety seemed like the last concern with the iirc. This could make an interesting video for someone to make like a plane crash video learn the lessons!
@@Grauenwolf Sadly, you are correct. Every surgeon "kills" someone. If we rescinded all the MD licenses, we would have no MDs.
In spite of everything happening in the world, I had to watch this. You are truly building integrity.
Thank you Anne!
Same, I always learn something from watching his videos.
"In spite of everything happening in the world" Anne stop reading social media and listening to MSN. There is nothing extraordinary happening now in the world, compared to other years. Don't waste your time being anxious about it.
@@Varangian_af_Scaniae An invasion of a sovereign country by an insane autocrat threatening to use nuclear weapons doesn't qualify as 'extraordinary'??? What are you smoking????
@@johnbergstrom2931 One war isn't extraordinary, even if media has gotten you to believe it's so. There is a civil war in Ethiopia and the normal fighting in Congo, where ethnic groups eradicate other ethnic groups. The Saudis with Americas help have been fighting in Yemen for the last many years, killing as many as 250000 civilians. Are you upset about that? No only the war media has said you should be upset about. And Russia's president isn't insane. Invading another country doesn't make you insane, because then both Clinton, Bush and Obama would too be labeled as insane.
Every war is tragic but we can't do anything about any of them so why waste our time worrying about something out of our control?
I don't think there will be any criminal case. I am speaking from the perspective of an engineer (but not structural) and engineers are always viewed as the "experts". Since the management company had engaged an engineering firm, and if it turns out the engineering firm did not tell them something like "shut the building down" or "the building could collapse if this isn't addressed", then the management can easily point to that and say "we're not structural engineers, we're not the experts, they are and they didn't give us indication this would happen". As for the engineering firm, they can come back and say, "well, there are so many unknowns, especially with a 40 year old building, that it was difficult to determine exactly why these cracks had formed and we had to make an educated guess based upon what we could actually observe."
What the engineering firm did, or more aptly, failed to do can be used against them in a civil case to win a judgement. In a civil case, both sides make their argument and whichever side has the strongest case wins. But, in a criminal case, you have to show "beyond the shadow of reasonable doubt" that the defendant committed the crime, which in this case amounts to neglect as part of your job. And in my opinion, there is just not enough evidence for a prosecutor to show the engineering firm was negligent in their duty. They made an educated guess and they were wrong. Could they have done more? Probably, but again, you need to convince 12 non-engineers that there was a willful intention on the part of the firm to not do their due diligence. And for management, again, it would be too easy for them to shed the blame to the engineering firm since they are the experts.
This does have similar vibes to the Kansas City Hyatt collapse. Where a less experienced engineer made some calls that was ultimately approved by a more senior and licensed engineer. In that case, the engineering firm was brought up on charges, but was ultimately acquitted. That case was much more clear cut in that the engineering firm had made an active decision that resulted in the collapse. In this case its's more passive and not as clear that the engineering firm didn't do their job correctly.
I'm horrible at maths or anything numbers orientated but the way you explain things with visuals makes it easy for me to understand, so thank you so much for that! I think you've found yourself a new subscriber! Also, thanks for all of the time and research you've obviously put into this. Damn.
Before I stumbled onto this channel, I had less than a casual interest in civil engineering, save when I help my brother with his construction business. But you’ve seriously got me glued in, and I love your integrity.
Thank you so much!
Brilliantly reasoned and clearly articulated, as always. Thank you. I'm a landscape architect, not an engineer, but this is all fascinating to me. The idea of putting a slab directly on top of a post is not something I could have imagined that anyone would do. It seems like the sort of thing that anyone over the age of five would consider a very poor idea. Criminal negligence? Well, I'm not an attorney either, so I can't say. But there seems to have been significant negligence on the part of so many people that I believe further investigation is warranted. I very much appreciate your work on this, Josh. It matters a lot.
As a fellow L.A. I agree. This who incident has given me reasons to pause when I see something that is “off” or wrong- to ask deeper question. I have already had to advise a client to stop using an existing deck upon observing obvious structural issues. Kind of a “see something say something” approach.
@Owen Dell - I've been in construction my whole life, and slab on post (columns) are very common. The problems come when those slabs get "over loaded" either by water, which happened here, or extra loads placed on them (planter boxes) etc. Engineers and Architects usually do a great job calculating those "live" and "dead" loads, and even adding in an extra measure for safety. Josh covers all that in his other videos. Check out "Punching Shear" video
@@mikewithers299 thanks, Mike. It's news to me. I learn a lot from watching this channel. Very fascinating stuff!
@@matthewtuel2747 That's a good strategy. It's part of our obligation to look out for the public health, safety, and welfare. The more finely tuned our powers of observation are, the better we become at that.
@@OwenEDell me too Owen. This channel helps me see what happens when I don't do my job right, or others "cheat" the codes in place to save time or money
I, ironically came here to Comment: Hey, your missing all the significant sagging, & then Bam! You started mentioning it.. well done! 🙌 👏👏👏
Very interesting Josh. I think that the major fault lies with construction, though the flooding in the garage should have tipped them off to structural problems that needed to be addressed. Over the years of that building's life I'm sure that issues arose that nobody who had invested in the building as an owner would have wanted to be addressed. I know that where I live in a co-op complex built in 1950, nobody wants to address major issues because it would increase our maintenance bill. A building like CTE which was owned by many as an investment probably had a lot of absentee owners. Another issue I see is that the 'junior engineer' sent by Morabito probably did not have the experience to diagnose the profound structural issues. Unfortunately most engineering companies that I worked for often let go of their experienced engineers whose salaries would be commensurate with their experience in favor of young up and coming engineers willing to work for less. In fact as I went about my 28 year career, I saw this increasing as practice more and more.
Just like the collapse in Elliot Lake, Ont. Canada, there were lots of warning signs. In Elliot Lake, the shopping mall tragedy, they were catching leaking water from the roof in buckets. It's all about negligence, greed, and corruption. Just like Elliot Lake, Surfside was preventable.
Eh, I dunno, the homeless guy outside the Tim Horton's said it was Trudeau's fault
You should check out the collapse of the Sampoong Dept Store in Korea. Fascinating Horror just did a video on it, if you want an introduction to the story.
The residents were responsible for the repair costs at Champlain. I see that as a different situation than a public shopping mall. I also don't understand the huge settlements. If I don't repair the roof of my house and it falls on me, why would my family be able to get a settlement for my inaction? My thoughts would be entirely different if this was a hotel or hospital. The board should have been strong enough to repair the building, even if the lower income residents could not afford to stay.
Why did the lake collapse? Sinkholes?
@@suekennedy8917 It was a shopping mall roof that collapsed (there was parking on the roof) but the name of the town is "Elliot Lake"
I love that the moment of “I swear I didn’t make up this amazing photo I saw, I studied it closely, Trust me!” Quickly became a demonstration of all of the details Josh can remember without the aid of that photograph. It is so nice to see integrity, knowledge, and competence on display.
Absolutely phenomenal video, as always! Your knowledge combined with the ability to report facts in layman’s terms is what makes you one of the best! 👍🏻I’d love for you to investigate other collapses. Even small incidents such as balconies where there are too many people or the water slide in CA a few years back. ☺️
You have to love the CZcams algorithms that suddenly decided to show me this today… I mean why?!
Brilliant video. Clear, concise, intelligent, packed with explanation and even entertaining too… I’ll be watching more.
Thank you. Subbed.
In hindsight we all know about punch shear and collapse. The really worrisome aspect is that any building can be under reinforced, built with substandard materials and headed for tragedy
Morabito's practices on all of their projects/contracts needs to be investigated. If they have been negligent at other places they need to have their license pulled and their engineers need to undergo recertification.
I believe that the city inspectors did not do a proper inspection when they did go out and check the building on their regular inspection or there could have been some sort of corruption going on. I have reported structural issues in my city that inspectors have overlooked or thought that it was a minor issues when in fact it turned out in one case to potentially have caused severe damage to a building and many lives. For that, the city's building department spent close to one million dollars repairing it properly and 6 weeks. Today that small area that was on the brink of collapse is named after me in the record books of the city. I love structural engineering and many people are glad for me today.
Josh, I’ve been following you since your day ONE! Great reporting and analysis. Thanks for the info. I have learned so much about building construction from your videos.
As an old caver I thought I could see stalactites on the ceiling. If so, that water intrusion had been going on for quite a while. So many errors and omissions. I enjoy your analyses.
Thank you. This is fascinating. I think it's negligence at best, and criminal negligence at worst. But anyone who owns a hotel needs to invest and make safety a priority, so I'm going with criminal negligence. Moving forward I'm checking out every parking structure I ever use. Those poor people. Great video. Thank you.
Josh wouldn’t forget this as he was helping to author changes in condo laws regarding inspections in Florida. Unfortunately the republicans couldn’t come to a consensus to pass any legislation during their last session and now insurance on condos has doubled and tripled, resulting in anyone trying to get a loan the FHA/VA and bank lenders are now requiring current inspections before giving a loan.
I literally have a spacial deficit and your explanation was so clear coupled with the addtion of red arrows, circles, etc. that I feel that I understood this! Thank you.
Great feedback and appreciate it very much. As a PE myself I fully understand these type failures generally are the result of dozens of contributing factors. Criminal? not likely however should lead to industry discussions and improvements, how do we inspect, what do we inspect what are the associated risk. I think all can agree in hindsight the building should have torn down years ago, fixing the support structure is one thing however if the foundation is already compromised from fundamentaly flawed design/construction thats a do-over. As a life long South Florida resident its reality most of these were built with cartel money and pay offs along the way-sadly the end result is not a surprise. Hopefully this can be avoided in the future and not just in South Florida
I’m not a lawyer, nor an engineer… just an interested layman.
I don’t see criminal, I see negligence but not even fully convinced of that. If I were a surviving resident or family, I’d be hiring Josh for expert testimony.
Wow, this was like a CSI episode and a forensic science lesson. The remediation engineer should have installed shoring immediately and evacuated Champlain Towers South. This is a real life on going drama in Surfside, FL. Thanks Josh.
Hindsight is 20/20. The real question is how sudden the degradation was. There were clearly problems for years but the building next door had active constructions and the felt they were at least 400 million responsible.
Hi Josh, thanks for your factual and detailed videos!
I am a civil engineer from Germany. As you, i was surprised that this building didn't collapse earlier.
The most important thing for our us is learning!
This and the FUI Bridge collapse are tragic mistakes that must never be repeated.
I was surprised, that an 1980er US building were so close to our codes and regulations in germany. The metric - imperial conversion was the biggest difference. Of course, this concrete strength in particular, the deck deformation and especially the punching through would not be permitted in Germany by today’s standards. But especially when it came to punching through, understanding was significantly improved after 1980.
The more warning signs you show, the more I realize that despite 20 years of experience, I wouldn't be a good inspector. Not because I'm bad at my job. We have little or no experience of when it becomes dangerous, and the subject doesn't even come up during our studies.Which 40-year-old parking garage has no cracks / spalling on the concrete columns?
Purely from the human side of this structure: the inspector has already looked at 60 supports. And YES, the 61st is in moderate condition too - how surprising.
We have already seen over 1000 cracks in our professional lives, nothing has ever collapsed. Nobody likes scaremongers.
There are numerous questions that arise when viewing the inspection reports. But in hindsight could, should, is easy to say. How many colleagues would have evacuated the house? How many wouldn't?
So I don't see any malicious intent, no criminal intent in pocketing the money for the inspection but doing nothing.
However, if I step back and put it through the eyes of the average person, my point of view changes:
People don't want to be killed by their homes. No one expects a professional to be able to predict "in 4 years, 3 months, 6 days and 8 hours the structure will collapse". But ONLY the professional can decide whether the use of the building is within the usual risk. We cannot retrofit old structures according to current regulations. But we must make sure that, according to the state of the art, there is a sufficient factor of security.
Did the inspector recalculate the structural analysis?
We cannot see the remaining load capacity and to this day we cannot calculate it exactly.
Even with the metric-imperial problem using modern CAD/FEM methods, I was able to recalculate and check the POIs over a weekend. Thanks to the city's building plans.
With little effort and due diligence, it would have quickly become clear that no damage to the load-bearing members is permitted.
Every spalling / crack diminished the small safety factor. Even if in 2015 a very experienced engineer concludes “good enough” it was negligently to let a junior engineer check the planters in 2022. Just because demolished planters aren’t structural parts.
The structure screamed in pain. It's waiting for someone willing to listen.
The inspection company's assertion that sufficient warnings had been given about the situation is unbelievable. If they had seen the danger of collapse, they would have withdrawn their staff and called in the authorities. The expertise "someday it will break - if it is not repaired” is far too general and applies to everything man-made anyway.
The one and only to avoid this collapse was the inspector. The engineer MUST say yes or no or “I am not the right expert for this building - we need another expert"!
Our department needs to learn from this.
In Germany, such a building would have to be monitored by an independent engineer. Structural analysis, construction plans and construction in 1980. But we do not have a recertification.
To avoid such a collapse, we need both and inspection experts. Maybe special trained PEs.
As an inspector you are a pilot: there is no room for “I estimate it’s okay”. You must be sure.
Sorry for my english, just an engineer 😊
All great points, and this bridge engineer would have definitely taken a harder look at everything if I had been there in the junior engineers place. Then again, I'm no junior engineer and the lack of factor of safety would have likely been in my mind. Public bridges in the US have to be inspected on a 2 year cycle, for obvious reasons. Bridges are also load rated, so you have a built in "factor of safety" analysis available at inspection time. Bridge inspection engineers are basically "special trained PEs" and they have to be certified on a certain frequency (5 years). This is a very expensive way to operate though as PEs like you and I are harder to come by these days. What about US private bridges?? No such requirement that they be inspected at all while in service, though some municipalities will require that they be inspected by a structural engineer before sending over emergency vehicles. On the public side, I've seen concrete cracks, spalls, rust coloring, water intrusion, efflorescence, and more! But I always have to put that in context of the overall structure and determine the risk of any failed element. I'd put my money on this column punching through being the failure point here. And I thought your English was pretty good!
As a remodeling and repair contractor, in my experience root intrusion (which is not extensive) into a concrete or concrete block wall will also introduce a vertical tilt to the face of the wall as the roots intrude slowly and cause the wall section to lift along the intrusion side before lifting the "clean" side of the wall
Anywhere, at anytime that I'm spending time within a condo/hotel/office building, then I'm looking at water and concrete in a whole new way.
Josh. I have watched nearly all of your videos about surfside. I have watched about two of five others and quit watching them. You have dealt in facts, a few times expressing reasonable opinions while the others were often out on a limb with conjecture and at times, wild guesses and conspiracies. I have enough background in various areas to assess these and your title building integrity also applies to you, integrity. I have seen several things you threw out as likely come to be known as right both by you and others as more information surfaces. When I saw the horizontal wall crack on this one, i immediately saw the vertical displacement and said, the support under it gave, a simpler description to your technically correct one. I do high quality digital photography and follow your assessments in that. Thank you for these videos, my knowledge of construction has been enhanced. I though I saw an aberration on the floor tile in the early photo, your red lines proved it and showed me a great technique. I seperate the wheat from the chaff in what I watch. Your videos are good grain. Thank you.
Josh, this was an amazing video. Please keep them coming to share your in-depth knowledge in trying to figure out the causes of the Surfside CTS 8777 collapse.
Your analysis is always enlightening and your interpretation of the mind set when a jr. engineer saw the crack is on point as well. Humans ofter see what they expect to see in a situation like this. And perhaps an experienced engineer would also find the same explanation as well for the reasons you stated. As always a great video
YOU THE MAN JOSH 💪🏽 Always informative and very knowledgeable. Appreciate all your content you share with us sir!
Agree. While my profession isn't along these lines it's still very fascinating.
Outstanding, Josh!! Incredible presentation!
Hats off to the Miami Herald reporters too- their work was just splendid!!
As for the remaining victims & families;
I hope this settlement brings some comfort and helps to ease the terrible burden you’ve all toted for the past year. I’m grateful you were spared the ugliness of a lengthy trial & I pray that everyday gets easier for each of you.
Thank you, Josh, for your advocacy for safety and professionalism- but more importantly, your expertise…
This was the first video that I watched on this tragedy (as randomly recommended by CZcams). I have gone back to the start of the series and am currently watching them. This video and the damage shown now makes a lot more sense, especially having just watched your video showing how the beams in the original plan were left out in the final plan directly under the area of this large planter box.
I'm a design/build landscape contractor whose been in business nearly 30 years. Before that I was an aerospace engineer. I have seen plenty of failing retaining/planter walls, none of which having displaced vertically. They usually deflect outward; if the footing is intact, they will bow out with increasing height (otherwise the whole wall tilts in unison).
I find this so fascinating, your like the Sherlock Holmes of concrete. It breaks my heart though that so many died in the collapse and that the warning signs were clear as day but yet largely ignored.
A criminal case? The settlement was unusually quick and appears quite generous. Someone wants this issue to go away as soon as possible.
Well, maybe that's a good thing. Nathan Reiber, his architect and engineer who put up this building are the real criminals, and they're all long dead. Get the victims some money, rebuild, and maybe tear down all the other Reiber buildings out there...
@@johnbergstrom2931 It's hard to blame the guy who designed it 40 years ago. The defect was not uncommon and relatively minor to remedy. I've seen the same problem repaired on other buildings. What was criminal was the lack of proper inspections and building maintenance.
@@fascistpedant758 No, you're wrong. The building was SEVERELY underdesigned to begin with, and made even more deficient with skimping on materials during construction. It was doomed from day one.
@@johnbergstrom2931 The design flaws which led to the collapse were in plain view and should have been detected. They could have easily been corrected. It did hold up for 40 years.
@@fascistpedant758 IMO
Another very interesting report!
The slab sagging between the columns would suggest a failure in bending. This could be facilitated by the developing slab / column joint failure (effectively changing it from from rigid to hinged behaviour) But was there significant cracking on the underside of the slab between the columns? I wouldn't assume that deck surface was ever level or laid to a design fall
Easy with hindsight of course but the obvious joint damage and water penetration / rust staining should have prompted more urgent action, especially after the vertical displacement was observed.
As for root damage being the cause of the observed damage - what nonsense!
I hope architects take note of this when they stick tons of earth with trees and other plants directly onto a building. Relying on waterproofing to protect hidden structural elements for decades is stupid and should be banned IMO. But then I wouldn't even let my wife have a "green roof" on an outbuilding !
Have separate removable planters raised off the structure so routine inspections are possible.
I'm not even an engineer or an architect - though I studied some Engineering in school, but this series it's absolutely fascinating for a person interested in engineering and what we call in Europe "statics".
My concern at this point is the settlement of the civil case. Usually the defendants move to have the records sealed and are usually successful. I find this tactic to have grave public consequences in that the civil engineering community are not able to learn valuable lessons and the safety of the general public is left unaffected.
I know there was camera footage somewhere too, they are not showing it either.
A lot of stuff has already made it to the public. They might hope the general public loses interest after the settlement, and doesn't pressure the authorities to investigate more. Hopefully the authorities are investigating thoroughly for criminal and regulatory violations without being forced to by the public.
@@Br3ttM - other that Morabito, the board members were all residents with no engineering skills ... Thye didn't even listen to the experts... many already got the death sentence that voted "no" to repairs
Trying to make the civil system a Justice system a total fail that that reason is making lawyers rich. Nothing like this should be in the civil system and just like medical mistakes or any mistake has to be in a criminal/administrative law system were everything is open.
A combination like many countries have were criminal and civil are done together would work best.
@@williamhaynes7089 this is why they should require a engineer on staff that job is to do all the engineering stuff and to report to the government if they are not doing upkeep that is a safety issie
Great Job Sir. I was hoping you would have more to say on this....
A little birdie told me you were working with the Herald, so you probably would not be able to say anything further.... So, I'm glad you will continue to make videos on this....
I'm in a different industry, I do different work... BUT, I remember an old guy told me once, early on, "Never discount the immediate probability of the improbable"... I think what he meant was, just because something "never" happens, it does happen every now and again, and don't rule that out.... which, I think when you talk about the Morabito junior engineer, who says yeah, root damage... I mean, just from a human nature perspective, you can see that happening.... Your brain says well, look, the building isn't actually collapsing, lets think about what else could be going on here... Where, I think you could say hey, don't rule that out. I agree with you, take a walk down to the garage, and look under that spot...
I sort of feel like, at least for the next 20 years or so, this "generation" of engineers, if you will, will NOT discount these things... If anything, I imagine everyone is erring on the side of CAUTION right now... Hmmm, yeah, there's a table out on that pool deck, and someone just set a margarita on it... We better get some shoring under that.... Heh heh! Okay, joking, but, you get my point....
I am told NIST is still on the site, working... I was curious if you would bring that up... Are we waiting for a final NIST report on causes??? Is the Engineering Community waiting for that???
The other thing that sort of strikes me is the lack of pictures... Now, I am older, so... But early in my career, a camera was a cumbersome thing, you had to know how to use it... You had to get the film developed... It was expensive... Nowadays, the advent of the cell phone camera, changes everything. If you see something, take a picture of it. Nobody is going to die, in my industry, but it is highly embarrassing and maybe humiliating, to go out to a site, and say yeah, I fixed it, this is what I found... and then later another tech goes back out behind you and says "didn't you see this?? You didn't notice this?" So I was usually pretty thorough, and took a LOT of pictures, and either kept them, or sent them to my boss, or whatever the situation called for. You back yourself up. and later, if someone says "this was messed up", you can say yeah, uhh, it wasn't like that when I was there, as you can see from these pictures, so... Someone else was out there, between then & now, don't look at me.... Or if you're trying to tell them look, this is messed up, I need these parts... If you send them the pictures, and they choose to do nothing, I am off the hook, so... Highly paid managers ignore the pictures, ignore my recommendation, that's on them. I know, people do not appreciate that sort of attitude, and I don't love it either quite honestly, but they made me this way. This is how the world works. You can't MAKE them do the right thing. The best you can do is document, recommend, and move on....
But my POINT in that previous paragraph is, I am somewhat surprised at the lack of pictures. It feels like, if someone thought they were seeing something, there would be A LOT of pictures.... Now, maybe Morabito, or some maintenance tech, or someone, has a thousand pictures somewhere, and under legal advice, those will never see the light of day.... I don't know...
I would also be kind of curious, on your thoughts about 87 Park.... Their legal team (from my understanding) did come into the settlement talks and basically said look, we will admit no wrongdoing, but here is a dump truck full of cash.... So, we might hypothetically speculate, that their legal team thought they had some exposure??? Didn't want to go to court??? Didn't like their chances??? I'd be curious, if you thought that part of the lawsuit had merit, that their construction did damage CTS, and did contribute to this disaster....
Anyways, you are doing a great job on this, I really appreciate your videos...
Of course everyone and their mom is waiting for the NIST final report.
My opinion is that the settlement from 87 Park is a way to minimize any exposure in the future. The cost of the settlement is likely less than the legal bills to prove that they were not responsible at all.
NIST has a working committee meeting on June 9. It’s going to be a progress report. I doubt they will discuss any theories.
IIRC he makes the point on previous videos that it is highly likely that there must have been lots of photos, but we just haven't seen them.
This was a wonderful video. You put in alot of work in putting this together. I had to subscribe to your channel because I was really impressed.....
Over the years I developed some serious skills when it comes to looking at pics and seeing everything wrong and why.
In the first pic I knew immediately what you were going to be discussing in this video. Big clean crack and
3rd paver line out the deck shows serious sagging which pulls the planter box down and out but it couldn't hinge off the other wall so it cracked it before breaking away from it at the top in the corner.
Now in my profession it would likely be some saggy / rotten floor joists but here it has to be a sinking column or a fractured pad or punch thru. Idk. Either way if I saw that I'd have some loadjacks under it within a half hour.
Thanks for the video you do a great job.
Josh, yet another terrific video analyzing this horrendous tragedy. I can definitely see some folks being charged with criminal negligence. There are surely enough experts (yourself included) who have determined that this slab area required, at a minimum, shoring-up yet their retained structural engineers ignored critical signs of what probably the majority in your industry would have suggested/done months before the collapse. My two cents from a layperson.
It wasnt a tragety it was owners refusing many many times to repair their building..Remember one of the association members sold and left because no one would agree to fix the building.. Another was just putting it on the market...That speaks volumes on the morons who lived there.. Stupid fits them perfectly..
Really love your channel, thanks for all the hard work. 1) The planter box appears to have had previous repairs. The caulking (probably not original) and the stucco appear to be patched in even near the white post. 2) As a retied contractor and imaging specialist with a lot of stitching experience, we should never assume lines in a shot are either straight or parallel, as lenes can and DO weird things. It's really nice to see you use multiple lines of imagery from different sources to support your position.
Josh truly does the most thorough work and is also a scientist as he works to create positions, so he can then eliminate every position, till he has his final position, the answer. Amazing!
Thank you for excellent channel! My first love is architecture! Your videos fascinate me,! Not an engineer, architect wannabe, became lawyer for tuition funding issues. Lamps great, brought out by gorgeous color of scultpured wall, and prism effect of textured shades.
Thank you! As a layman, not an engineer or in the construction world, I have learned so much by watching your series about Champlain Towers. I obviously Don’t know about criminal case but I suspect that the reinsurance industry has already made a huge change how they underwrite older buildings including condo Director Insurance! From your videos, I know that they’re working on upgraded regulations in Tallahassee but that can take a long time. A underwriters meeting at a reinsurance company can be instant! It may create an insurance crisis in waterfront condos particularly the older ones. Condo buyers here in South Florida should beware.😎
Wow, as soon as you drew those lines I could not help from noticing how caved in those pavers are. Plus you can even see the planter box section that hasn't "lifted" leaning (root damage??? i mean unless the camerais distorting the image, but just in that area??? "junior engineer" more like fired lol).
It kind of give me chills just seeing it, knowing the outcome, this was barely hanging on. Especially when you said they maxed out the capacity in the plans. I always like multiple safety factors when the public is involved, at least some over engineering, but nope maximum profit 💰
Yeah, if I inspected something like that, and made a B.S. call, for the sake of expediency and helped kill all those people, I'm not sure if I could live with myself. I certainly would retire from the engineering field...
Tech&Tools I'm with you. Those lines said exactly what Josh was saying. Nobody was paying attention back then to the warning signs. I freaked out when I saw the final drawing
That damage should have been a huge red flag. Unfortunately, sheer greed, mismanagement and board member's (occupants) unwilling to pay the cost of putting things right. Having interacted with apartment block boards, it's always about money. I strongly suspect that there are many buildings in the vicinity which will need very costly upgrades to make them safe. Anybody who buys an apartment should read the terms and conditions of ownership.
IMO and in agreement with Josh's comment in this video, I think that if there was a single failure point in the engineering inspection and review process, it was not with the condo board but the inexperience of the inspecting engineer, his failure to recognize major red flags in the cracking and water damage patterns, and his ineffectiveness in escalating what he found (which is almost certainly due to my previous point about him failing to recognize the red flags.)
I think you are being too hard on the HOA. They are just a group of volunteers. They are not engineers. When I saw those cracks ion the planter I just thought they looked like cracks I have seen all over town. Seen through Josh's eyes, they are significant, but if I was on the board I suspect I would not have been alarmed.
The real issue is how should this building have been inspected and by whom, and how often? The HOA is not qualified to do it. Perhaps we should treat complex structures like this the same way as aircraft, were there is a strict program of inspections required in order to maintain its airworthiness certificate (Occupancy permit). The cost of these inspections and a reserve for repairs would be built in to the HOA dues structure.
They had plenty of money to pay for the stupid planter boxes and layers of tile that added all that deadweight to the slab, though. And they had planned to redo the finishes in the common areas instead of fixing the structure of the building. So the money is there - it's just messed up priorities.
@@bubba99009 Fixing the poor design and execution of the construction was going to cost orders of magnitude more than the do-over of the lobby and common areas, so I don't think it's correct to say that there was "plenty" of money, though I totally agree that the resources they had were not prioritized appropriately.
@@castletown999 This proves that HOA board members shouldn't be run by just anyone. They were weak and allowed the owners to post pone and post pone needs of the building. The board from the past should have increased HOA fees 20 years ago as all of them do little by little to keep up needed revenue for maintenance etc. All of the conditions in the parking garage were obvious concerns to just anyone...yet the owners kept voting no. Too bad much of the blame is put on third parties.
You are awesome! What a great comprehensive video and put together in a way that every person could understand. Thank you.
very interesting video, I love these types of in-depth looks. that said, when you said the pavers were depressed, I automatically whispered "me too pavers, me too".
In the first photo, if you have a sharp eye, you can see a slight sag in the courtyard, the visual vertical lines to the left of the corner crack lean slightly to the left than the vertical cues on the right of the crack.
I saw that immediately, but wondered if it was just distortion by whatever was used to take the picture.
Great video Josh, have immensely enjoyed your series on this sad episode. I hope that in addition to the financial settlements, relevant people will be held to account. Keep up the great work.
I have just returned to this story after following your series of videos after the disaster. Your explanations are as easy to follow and thorough as ever. Your thinking and outline are excellent. You answer questions as soon as they come into my head.
Thanks you for staying with this.
Criminal case yes. Negligence yes.
Will it happen .it should.
What will happen is the site will sit for several years and then get redeveloped with a new set of characters in play.
My thoughts are with the Family members remaining, their ongoing pain and loss.
May the victims rest in peace.
Thank you for this great analysis.
This reminds me of a the collapse of the Sampoon Dept. Store, only the columns punched through the ceiling of the top floor that had been illegally added on and heavy air conditioning units placed on the very top and center.
Another outstanding presentation! This is the most credible & informative technical presentations related to CTS & MTSF. Please keep them coming as you are able. Love all of it.
In my opinion the building speaks for itself, & you positively nail the observation - thinking process. I also believe there is criminal responsibility, as per in poor design and construction practices, as in the maintenance - operation process, wich includes the consulting of those involved. The lasts ones for lack of action, it's almost like they thought they were "helping by given time", time that probe to costs lives.
In these case, the "junior engineer" wasn't objective to do a professional observation, most likely because he/she wasn't willing to expose their self to spend a minute down under!!!
Thank you, Josh!! Great info! You Rock‼👍
I learned so much! I'll be keeping my eye out for these things when in large buildings, perhaps smaller ones too.
Thank you so much for giving us these videos. Excellent for engineers to learn from you, and also to improve the general competency of the general population
Josh, when this collapsed happened it was all over the nation including the local media stations. They even interviewed state representatives about inspecting buildings in Louisiana. How to prevent this from happening here. However, lately, there has been no mention of the collapse, settlements, etc. in our area on the local media. Seems the dust has settled on this subject. You have become the news source on it.
Thanks yet Again for a Wonderfully presented and Researched vidclip .... Very Best to You and Yours from New Zealand
I'm so glad you are still talking about this.
Thank you for fallowing up with this series.
Once again a very clear and objective analysis. I just hope this results in a review and tightening of building standards and inspection
They taught a lot of intro things like this in high school and now I wish they'd teach people how to spot structural damage. It seems like a very overlooked skill, ESPECIALLY in this housing market
Excellent presentation. Thank You. I’m an architect and have followed this closely from the beginning. What strikes me about this tragedy is that the original designers, owners and builders designed and built everything to the minimums, barely. Sheer walls were insufficient, concrete columns were poorly tied (rebar) to the floor slabs. It seems that the deck was under designed for all heavy loads added to it over the years. Expansion joints are absent. And, shamefully, the Condo Board tarried too long to resolve the nightmare.