Green Arrow: The Ultimate Guide to Gresley's 'Sawn-off Flying Scotsman' | Curator with a Camera
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- You asked for it! Get ready for one of our most in-depth tours yet as Anthony Coulls gives you the lowdown on Green Arrow, the so-called 'sawn-off Scotsman' which is both the first example of a V2 Class locomotive to be produced and the sole surviving example of its type.
In this bumper edition of Curator with a Camera filmed at the Danum Gallery, Library and Museum in Doncaster, Anthony explores this beautiful locomotive in great detail to satisfy the many, many requests we've had to feature it.
To find out more about Danum Gallery, Library and Museum, visit: www.dglam.org.uk/
To find out more about the National Railway Museum, visit: www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/
To get your own stunningly detailed model of Green Arrow, explore the Locomotion Models range here: www.locomotionmodels.com/
To see our video on Flying Scotsman, that's here:
• Flying Scotsman: See I...
Curious about the speedy, streamlined Gresley A4s? Check out Mallard here:
• Inside Mallard, the Wo...
Green Arrow archive footage provided by PSOV. Find out more here: www.mainlinesteam.net/
Chapters:
00:00-00:26 Intro
00:26-01:34 Where does Green Arrow fit in LNER's 1930s lineup?
01:34-01:56 The sawn-off Flying Scotsman
01:56-02:32 Wheel configuration
02:32-03:20 The boiler, nameplate and numbering
03:20-04:48 The infamous monobloc casting
04:48-05:35 Smokebox furniture and front details
05:35-05:49 PING
05:49-07:05 Equipment from mainline operation
07:06-07:33 Sandboxes
07:33-07:52 Wakefield Mechanical Lubricators
07:52-08:32 Signs of wear
08:32-09:30 Driving wheels and balancing weights
09:30-10:15 Original parts
10:15-10:40 Restoration and high-quality finish
10:40-11:20 Yes, locomotives have tyres
11:20-11:50 Pony truck and firebox
11:50-12:00 Made in Doncaster
12:00-12:50 Inside the cab
12:50-13:24 Driver's seat
13:24-15:40 Driver's controls
15:40-15:57 Whistle
15:57-16:20 More driver controls
16:20-18:15 Fireman's area
18:15-18:52 The tender
18:52-19:45 Handbrake, fire irons, speaker
19:45-20:18 Yorkshire coal
20:18-20:44 Conclusion
20:44-21:15 Like and subscribe!
#trains #railways #steam #greenarrow - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Frozen in time since 2008, just such a shame she's now totally static. Honestly engines like this need to be alive and free to run.
They can. Its just fuel and keeping the parts from expiring thats the big fr*king holdback.
@@Tankindankincamnot entirely, boiler tubes do need overhaul after 10 years or less and you'll need money to keep them running for generations, sometimes locos just take a long static rest before being run again but as long as you have a willing team of people and lots of money to burn you can get any loco going again (provided if the parts are completely knackered)
Hello
Hi Anthony. Green Arrow hauled the first train over the Settle and Carlisle line following the lifting of the steam ban. I was a coach steward on the train. I still have the tie they gave us. They did a presentation to Bill Harvey on the journey. I will have to dig out the photos.
The only thing stopping it from being returned to service is the owners.
I remember seeing Green Arrow at the NRM when I was little (granted I can’t remember it well but I know it was there). It’s a nice loco and I’m planning to visit it in Doncaster this summer if I get the chance.
Snap! In my case it was 1975, a 12th birthday treat, 48 years ago...😲
Mallard..
Flying Scotsman..
Sir Nigel Gresley..
Union Of South Africa..
Etc..
Green 💚 Arrow... belongs among some of the Greatest locomotives 🚂 of all time..
Hall of fame..👍🏻
Very beautiful locomotive 🚂.. 💚
Curator with the camera 📸 is the best.. 👍🏻
So very educational.. Worth watching.. 👍🏻
A number of years ago we took a steam tour behind Green Arrow over the Devon banks, What a splendid locomotive, it was superb.
Thank you Green arrow.
One of those which ran to Plymouth was filmed for a DVD called Green Arrow Goes West.
@@MasterMoyle Hi David. That'll be worth looking out for then. Any idea who sells them?
I can't wait for this. Honestly, I've never heard of this engine and barely anything on the V2s apart from someone mentioning them whiles talking about the 2-8-2 p2's but that's it.
Brilliant video, I do recognise the cab, as I cabbed Flying Scotsman on the KWVR a couple weeks ago which is my profile picture. I do like the NRM and hope that the V2 comes back on the rails. I also must visit the Danum next time I get the train to Donny
Such a beautiful looking engine
I can't wait for this. Green Arrows turn now.
Nice new museum isn't it? I recommend the cafe too! 😉
It would be nice to see the locomotive operating again.
I've always had a soft spot for Green Arrow ever since my earliest visits to the NRM as a small child around 1989-1990*, I remember its apple green standing out as a nice colour triad with Mallard's blue and Duchess of Hamilton's red. I'm slightly sad it doesn't live at York with them any more, though I understand you can't put every loco there! Plus if it was built in Doncaster, then it makes sense that Doncaster should be where it spends its retirement.
* was also fun to have Green Arrow be the loco that makes friends with Thomas in Thomas and the Great Railway Show, nice to see it get the spotlight there.
Green Arrow was a premium freight, not parcels, service
Customers paid a premium and a Green Arrow sticker was stuck on the label of the wagon to which the premium applied; when a freight train left its starting point, a telegram - from memory it stated "STRAN TAGUS GREEN ARROW - - - " was sent to the destination point for that service stating the wagon numbers to which the premium applied, and their ultimate destinations. On arrival at the end destination for that particular freight service (say Toton), priority was given to the wagons during sorting and for inclusion in an ongoing service - if the next ongoing service towards the ultimate destination was limited by length or weight, the Green Arrow wagons took precedence over others.
slip of the tongue. registered freight came out as parcels! I'm not perfect. Apologies and thanks for the correction
Another wonderful video and engine. What an awesome feeling it must be to stand right beside the loco.
Well this is interesting! Green Arrow's always been a very intriguing machine to me so I'm glad you guys will be showing it off
Wish it could restored to steam again.
@@stuartandrews4344 Its on loan for 3 years starting in 2021. But I've heard it does have an overhaul planned
@@mrjnuts1 is that true? does green arrow have an overhaul planned?
@@rudycarlson8245 Ye i think its in the 15 year plan nrm did in 2019. if you search on google green arrow overhaul you get two rail advent listings. one about its move to Doncastor and another of a 15 year plan. But has its on loan atm if it does get overhauled it wont be anytime soon. still got another year of the loan and well we all know how long it can take to overhaul these locos.
Look like another railway museum to add to my list!
I live near Donny and I did not know of the museum or that the V2 was there. Looks like the Large Atlantic is with it.
Rode behind her when she visited the NYMR in 2006. One of my earliest memories.
I grew up in South Wales so never saw V2s,however,September 1966 self and brother were passengers on a railtour;Euston-Aberdeen-Kings Cross.Over the Waverley route behind V2 60836,unforgettable,she had the three puffs and a pause exhaust beat which were all part of the V2 style.
Fresh from a visit to Danum library, I’ve just seen this beautiful locomotive in person. I might’ve seen it in my youth, but this is the first time in years. It still has that LNER charm and looks very nice next to No.251(which I would also like a Curator with a camera episode on).
5:39 I do this to 60008 when I visit her once every year with my son, that iconic “ring” from tapping my metal Deutsche Reichsbahn builders plate on her buffers, god I love that sound.
I did this on Mallard with the iconic ring on the right buffer. Nice sound it makes.
Green Arrow is just a beautiful loco
Nice looking locomotive. I was lucky to get a guided tour of the footplate by a chap at Locomotion back in 2017. He was very good at explaining the basics of how to drive the thing.
Best video yet!
Wonderful video! Beautiful locomotive! Thanks
A very interesting and clear to understand tour, thank you Anthony.
Wow that was the deepest of dives on a loco
Hands down, my favourite loco. If a funding drive was set up for this engine, I would happily add to it, as would many I think. Just need to availably to do so. I know the A1 trust have sent over their cylinder casting information to you. However,as you say in these comments, you are looking for a like for like. The technology is there, as it's been done before, just need to work back from what we have. Must be away to 3d scan the original block to create a basis to work from. Maybe cast 2 for insurance.
So interesting! Thank you.
Thanks again Anthony for another great video
In the US the 2-6-2 wheel arrangement is known as a prairie
Amazing stuff 👍
That is in my home city. I visit it at least once nearly every week. Thanks for letting Donny have a couple of engines. It was about time we had some here. I know The C1 is probably too old to steam again now, but I hope one day you decide to steam Green Arrow again. I would love to ride behind a V2, as I always admired them.
This is the most beautiful loco ever!! Magnificent🤘🤘
Great and very informative video as always. She’s certain a beaut is GA, hopefully one day she’ll be back out on the road but I’m glad for now she’s securely stored for folk to enjoy 🙂
Yea Really true. I am coming to England soon and this is the first place I will go I swear.
I think it was Archibald Sturrock who had come to the GNR from the GW and was impressed by the 'BG' (broad gauge) wide firebox. I noticed this clearly on the first model loco I built from scratch-a GN Large Atlantic back in 1966.
OOOO cant wait for this.
Yay green arrow!
It's sad that this is the only one preserved. Compare with the number of LMS Black 5s that were preserved; the LNER is sadly underrepresented in preservation.
Ultimately comes down to Woodham Brothers Scrapyard, the place where many preserved locos were rescued from, being in Barry, South Wales - the opposite end of the country from the LNER's stamping ground. 98 GWR locos were rescued from there, 41 Southern Railway locos, 38 Standard Classes, 35 LMS locos (including six Black Fives)... and one LNER loco, the Thompson B1 61264.
The irony is, the LNER were probably the best of the Big Four at consciously preserving their history - the National Collection is based in York because it was an outgrowth of the LNER's own collection after all, and they even preserved City of Truro after the GWR decided it wasn't worth preserving. Trouble is, "preserving" often meant just keeping the most notable example of the class and scrapping the rest.
It's such a handsome design. Is it odd that the BR standards never included a 262 tender loco? Many thanks to the curator!
Wow
Green Arrow was preserved because it was the first built, and still had the monobloc.
I’m always quite surprised that the other 183 V2’s got scrapped.
Now the monobloc is cracked it can’t be replaced.
Only chance of steaming it is having a new triple block manufactured, which purists don’t want, in case the original knackered monobloc gets lost?
I would like to see this wonderful engine back in steam. but even as a static display Green arrow is still a beautiful example of British locomotive engineering.
Surely nowadays there are techniques for weld repairing cast iron blocks like this. That does change the original artifact of course.
This begs the question, if Flying Scotsman is still loved and respected even if only a tiny handful of her original 1923 parts remain on her chassis.
Why can't Green Arrow be the same with getting a new Triple Block?
True neither loco would be 100% original, but still deeply respected.
@@exveefan 7 heads and 6 handles but still the same broom. I would not disagree with you but some would.
In service there were many mix and match instances like boilers being rotated between several locomotives.
I'd like to see Green Arrow steam again. If a new monoblock were to be cast, the original could form an exhibit of its own.
@@emmabird9745 even if weld could repair it, the entire set of cylinders and valves is out of alignment, meaning that there's 1/8" of material on one side and 7/8" on the other, so re-boring, sleeving and lining is not possible.
This museum must never repaint her drivers, they are testament to the V2 class, a indicator that shows every visitor that this proud GRESLEY built machine once steamed back in 2008. Have a good rest Green Arrow, we miss you on the mainline.
Thank you very much for this interesting video about one of the most elegant british steam locos.
But what about the future of this loco ?
It would be great to be behind this loco on the main line again.
Best wishes
Dirk
To be honest, completely forgot about the V2 class. Every time I take America’s Mallard out for runs, the only LNER Steam I think of is: A4s, W1, A3s, B17s and the P2s.
I have not seen her since noticing her at Stewarts Lane early one morning after coming off night shift at Euston, on my way to Herne Hill,c.1970
I quite like V2s the perfect engine for railway traction
It would be great to see Green Arrow run again but the issue is what would take it's place in Doncaster & where would it be overhauled as the NRM's workshop has become wonderlab (no idea why they shut it as the works was the one place where people could see work being done on locos). Riley's would be the best place as they performed amazingly on the A3 & would make sure the V2's overhaul would cost nowhere near as much as it did with Scotsman, could've overhauled 3 or 4 locos with what got spent just to fix the A3 which was around 3 or 5 million.
The P2 Loco trust has just had a mono blog cylinder built for Prince of Wales so could the NRM not get one made for Green Arrow. I know the the Green Arrows was a different design but it could done. I would love to see her in steam again and remember her pulling the special train from Carnforth to York back the the 1970's. It was a wonderful trip. we also had Flying Scotsman and Sir Nigel Gresley on this trip each loco taking part did each part of the trip.
It could be done, we have the drawings. Cost is a major issue, which is why we'd need a partner to even consider it. Unlike the P2, we would seek a like for like replacement with a new casting rather than a fabrication.
@@anthonycoulls7301 aside from the pattern I thought one of the reasons for its overhaul being put off was because it's an original LNER cast block and the NRM wanted to keep it on Green Arrow.
The house front end wasn’t Gresley’s! Just look to the right at Ivatt’s Atlantic and there it is.
Great video. Gresley has not been well served by preservation. Only one V2, not in working order, and only one A3 (the record breaker 2750 Papyrus was cut up).
man, my favourite prarie
Nice work. Will you be releasing a video on C1 Atlantic No.251 since it's also at Danums?
We're planning to make a return visit :)
@@NatRailwayMuseum could the crack in green arrow’S cylinder be welded? Or is it so bad that it just needs to be replaced entirely?
The US designers couldn't make a well-balanced 2-6-2. They tried before the turn of the century, but the wheel arrangement became a light, slow freight engine.
It was Churchward on the GWR who copied much American practce (as well as French), both in coaching stock and locomotives; look at all his Prairie 2-6-2 wheel arrangements.
Make curator with a camera about c1 atlantic.
One option might be a fabricated Monoblock similar to what the p2 will have, even with one off castings a new Monoblock casting will be very expensive, the 100 dollar question, will the NRM allow it, or insist on like for like replacement personally , i would love for 4771 to go on loan to the A1 Trust after POW is finished, they have a track record of being able to raise funds and tornado has shown they are competent. and the NRM, allow them to go with the fabricated cylinder design, it would have merit on an educational front, because it would show how modern day methods are changing how we maintain old historic items.
We would seek like for like replacement, it can be done. Think 3d printed pattern, and we have the drawings.
Get this loco running again please
Agree
Sure, just donate the millions of pounds needed and they'll get right on it lmao
The 15 year plan in 2019 had this loco in it. its waiting an overhaul. but is on loan for 3 years started in 2021.
today we went to the nymr
That was great Anthony. I'm glad as you said she was a really useful engine. LOL. What is the loco beside her?
C1 Atlantic no. 251
@@lukeslocomotives Have they done a Curator on that?
Not yet - we're planning to make a return visit
I'd love to see her back on the rails but ig gonna take a lot of money
Not her ,it
I always thought the Green Arrow was named after a fish train route.
Get the funding for restoration.
The more its run the less original parts there are.
@@billpugh58 parts can be made
Hi
Will green arrow steam again
I hope one day Green Arrow can steam once again.
I think it is on the list for mainline locos to run again alongside 30777, 60103 & 70013.
@@MasterMoyle is 700013 evening ⭐️? And what is the name of? 30777?
@@rudycarlson8245 Evening Star is 92220, 70013 is Oliver Cromwell & 30777 is called Sir Lamiel.
A wonderful thing, but not sure why you say it was 'Gristle's masterpiece' ? Would that not be his A4 ?
16:30 Did the fireman get a regulator too?
Im going to assume no.
He did, but it was used for shunting, or if he saw something ahead he could shut the regulator quicker than shouting across the cab
hello
Do the cracks in engine casting mean it's steaming days are over?
It would need extensive boiler repairs and the cylinders to be replaced, but that's not impossible if someone were to come to us with a funded proposal and business case
@@anthonycoulls7301 could keep the original cylinder on display in the museum if one day a new one can be cast
@@jameshardy4354 yes, tha would be the idea
If in the future the money could be found to steam Green Arrow again, one of the early considerations would be if they should abandon the original monoblock design and construct the cylinder block a different way that remains faithful to its original dimensions.
@@Pesmog later engines did have the mono block replaced by 3 separate cylinders
Its a James 😊
James is a 2-6-0, this is a 2-6-2
English trains are driven from the port side…. But English cars have the driver on the starboard side. Is there a particular reason for that?
Visibility of lineside signals I assume
British cars drive on the left hand side of the road, therefore drivers sit on the right to have best visibility of oncoming traffic and such like that.
Locomotives are still driven on the left of the railway, however signals are put on the left hand side of the track, in the cess, for easier connection so signal boxes, no need to run the signalling equipment under the track if it can be avoided. And as it’s the engineers job to respond to signals, he needs to be in a position to see them best, that being the left hand side of the train
The GWR drove from the right.
And in the USA, road vehicles are driven from the left hand side, but railway vehicles are driven from the right side. The opposite of current British practice. When Britain had many railway companies, some drove on the left side, but other drove from the right. For signaling purposes it is better to standardize the operating position.
In Victoria, Australia the broad gauge railway was driven from the left side, but the narrow gauge railways were driven from the right. The first narrow gauge engines were built by Baldwin in the US so were right hand drive and so the locally built engines copied that. When two additional engines were bought in 1926 from Beyer Peacock & co. Ltd. Manchester, England (Garratt engines G41 & G42) they were also right hand drive.
@@johnjephcote7636 the GWR was just flat out weird and the practice of driving from the right side was not practiced by any other railway during the grouping era if I am correct
I have to admit that this is the very first time I’ve seen 4772 described as a sawn-off Scotsman!
Bit of an insult. I tend to think otherwise.
For many years, GN engines were designed with wide BG ('broad gauge')-style fireboxes.
Why did Green Arrow get renumbered to 4771?
Because that's its original number from when under LNER ownership.
@@MasterMoyle But was there any reason why Green Arrow got renumbered from 637 to 4771?
@@Drockthe3rd unsure why
Black 5s were far better mixed traffic engines hence they build over 900
There's a "swings and roundabouts" aspect to it - the V2 had more power, but that power came at a cost of higher axleloading that ruined the "go anywhere" part of "go anywhere, do anything". Saying that, as long as they stuck to the main lines V2s were capable of heroic perfomances, particularly during WW2. Thompson's B1 is probably more of a direct LNER comparison to the Black Five, and a good 400-odd of those were built.
Ultimately, comparisons are odious - they're all great locomotives, speaking as someone who often prefers mixed traffic locos to express engines.
When you are gonna overhaul Green Arrow? If you don't overhaul Mallard and Evening Star, it's fine, Sir Nigel Gresley is on the mainline, Bittern is awaiting overhaul, other 9Fs are operational on heritage lines. But Green Arrow is a sole survivor of a great design, she deserves to be out on the mainline hauling railtours again
As I've said in the film and in many answers, it's on our operating strategy and if someone came to us with a plan and funding, we would talk.
@@anthonycoulls7301 how much are we talking to bring her back to mainline running again
Agreed. It's that pesky monobloc cylinder casting holding it up. But, yes, just imagine Green Arrow and Hengist double heading over the S&C!
@@robertwilloughby8050 what's the diffrence between the monoblock on green arrow and the one been made for the p2 prince of Wales as could there mouldings be used or is it completely diffrent again
@@chillingwolf It's not quite the same dimensions, the theory is the same, but not in practice. However, you do make a good point, and maybe a bit of sharing of resources might push forward a solution.🙂
Didn't Prince Philip have a go at driving her?
Yes, at the NRM's opening in 1975
Not her ,it
Why did the monobloc crack? Poor steel, bad design, old age? I’d like to know more about that subject.
wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
Fun Fact: green arrow also be seen in one of the books of Thomas and friends
And was going to be in season 7 of the tv show but the 2 eps got dropped.
@@mrjnuts1 cap
Last time I saw her was in Stewarts Lane shed early one morning. I had come off night shift at Euston Station c.!970 and I was watching from a Victoria to Herne Hill train.
didn't Prince Philip have a go at driving Green arrow back in the 1970s?
Yes, that was when the NRM was opened way back on September 27, 1975.
We had her at gcr Loughborough good loco ,saw em regularly on the gc at Nottingham vic
Hey it’s maxwell when are you coming to the locomotion in shildon I live near there just up the road I would love to meet you
but no steam trains😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
They're steam locomotives not trains.
Good video but come on NRM as a ex friend of over 25 years you need to get back on track ,workshops converted to a kids play area ,really !!! me thinks you need real rail people running this national treasure ,not just box tickers
Am I a box ticker? Wonderlab isn't a play area by the way, but that's one for another time perhaps.
Should be out on the mainline not crammed in an exhibit
It's in our operating strategy, but needs a funded plan for it to happen
@@anthonycoulls7301 Will green arrow be restored to operating condition eventually?
OOH-HOO-HOO, WOWSERS; A PRAIRIE (2-6-2) TYPE OF STEAM-DRIVEN RAILWAY TENDER LOCOMOTIVE!!!
You know... maybe you should let it run instead of stuffing it like a dead animal.
Honestly, I find the national collection kind of revolting. Yes, it's nice to have big facilities to store these locomotives and keep them out of the elements. But what is a steam engine without a fire in it? A hunk of inanimate metal.
It's still hundred times better than many steam museums in the world.
Can it run anymore with those cracks in engine?
I'd rather have this then see them all being cut up for scrap, stuffed and mounted in the elements outside stations ect
If you actually understand how a steam engine works, the stresses, strained and costs to keep them safe and operational, certainly in this day and age, maybe you'd have a better understanding of why "static" is not a dirty word.. I find your lack of knowledge revolting
@@johnmunns5964 afraid not, the cyulinder casting would have to be replaced
It's on our operating strategy which means we're open to the idea of it running again. However that would require a costed business plan and much discussion - but we're not against it.
Could GWR 3700 Class 3440 City of Truro be looked at in the future? very pretty engine.
Nice video 👍👍😀😎🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃. I've subscribers to your CZcams channel