Jwong Thinks Zangief is TOO OVERPOWERED
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- "I can't name five characters better than him right now." Kizzie Kay and Justin Wong discuss about the rise of Zangief in Street Fighter 6 - how the new patch shot him to the top, and if he really is the most broken character.
Do you think Zangief is broken? Comment down below!
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Justin Wong
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You both were just used to punishing every button Zangief had, now you cannot punish the 5hp and are crying. it's ridiculous.
This is bull shit topic they don't give credit to the player at all
Man this video is literally just I don't want to get command grabbed
@@tyronewested694 dude... Justin using cringe and negative tactics for views is low
They saw twitter was mad about Gief so they made a troll video with arguments like, "Did you see his buff list? He got a lot of buffs." And, "When Gief gets burned out he can still grab you." We're really fishing for engagement in these difficult times on CZcams huh.
Big Bird popped 11 level 2s in grand finals of EVO 😭😭 level 2s are still out here
I would love to see a Gief EVO champ, the crying would be deafening 🤣
Snake Eyes won the EVO in 2010 I believe playing Gief in super sf2 turbo hd remix.
Disrespecting Kobayan and diminishing his performance when Itazan didn’t even make finals is downright stupid.
How about japanese players commented this even before Topanga?
@@ngjeremy8062 I mean Japanese players complain about Gief when half the players in topanga were on Akuma lol
Let's ignore Itazan tearing it up to qualify for the EWC like a month ago. Does he have to make every top 8 or something?
@@AaronW0885 i mean if Zangief is so called top 5 in the game and hes arguably top 3 in the world Zangief user something aint right
The fact that hes cool with kens, guiles and akumas dominating but gets pissed the second gief leaves D tier is all you need to know.
they're talking like it's impossible to deal with his tools while footage of people dealing with his tools is playing in the background i feel like i'm going crazy
It seems kind of bitter and disrespectful the way they talk about kobayans win. “It’s the first time a grappler has won topanga” no props no nothing just this character clearly needs nerfs, this is unacceptable. From a spectators point of view it was incredibly exciting watching his tournament run.
“And he ain’t even that good” isn’t he #1 gief online pretty consistently?
@@Ashragi he was climbing that ladder with S1 zangief... they need to put respect on his name
two known grappler haters were put in a room and this is the result.
This is bull shit topic before the buffs kobayan was a monster I just remember when he destroyed the birds without buffs enough said
@@Kashype101 only nothing was said. a good player beat other good players. that's that. honestly even just the act of beating good players isn't enough.
Give me enough time and put me in a longset with the top players in the world and I'll eventually beat them once or twice.
Sounds like people are just mad that zangief is actually a playable character
they want him to be the punching bag character like he is in most games.
Yeah, in SFV was quite trash and now when he's viable people starts to moan 🤣🤣
More like Zangief players are mad that their character is top 5 and they can't have "my character is bad" excuses anymore.
@@git_blame all that I see are people that are mad because they get beaten by gief and push the blame on gief being a playable char instead
@@git_blamenope, yours sounds more like coping than anything
meanwhile no zangiefs in top 24 EVO 😂
Yeee.. this is the weird part to me. And saying the top tier players like Kobyan and snake weren't there(which is an excuse some would use for grief not being top 24) doesnt help the arguement. If you need crazy good players to get top 24 with a character still , that just makes it seem like the character itself isn't quite as busted as it seems. Strong ? Sure . But busted ? Hmmm not quite seeing that yet 🤔
I’m sure people complaining about him scoff at this remark but it’s true right? 😂😂
Because the top zangiefs in the world except for 1 did not attend.
@@qdog8367that's a dumb argument, you need crazy good players to get to top 24 with ANY character
no kens in top 6 but 2 ed’s, and yall love to say ken is downplayed so….
this is an overwhelming amount of gief hate
Yeah its “op” when gief command grabs you and gets no oki but it’s “footsies” when characters like akuma combo you for that same amount while simultaneously carrying you to the corner and putting you in throw loops lmao
They didn’t say it was OP. Justin even said he wouldn’t necessarily call it unhealthy. Stop crying
@@willkershisnik5893 nobodies crying lmao I didn’t ask for anything in my comment. I just find it humorous that whenever a grappler isn’t a complete punching bag everybody loses their shit. Zangief is not terrible anymore for sure but he is not nearly as good as people are making him out to believe. Improve your reading comprehension.
@@Serendide you are definitely crying, that’s not an issue of reading comprehension either, that’s from the content of your comment
@@Serendide I don’t know if anyone besides Gief players are “losing their shit” lol. People say the character is top tier or super strong and Gief players just go insane.
@@plannedtuna8293 He is strong, I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but the people that think he's top tier or him being good is "unhealthy" for the game are delusional.
I dont play Zangief, but im glad he got buffed!
This feels like bait
Haters gonna HATE !!
Zangief needs BUFFS 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾 ❗
Just let me do OD Lariat on wake up or let Lariat hit behind
The hate is real but I don't think he needs buffs
Git gud
The argument on headbutt is ridiculous. The situation being in your favor is the point of all plus frames. Getting roundhoused or dive kicked by Akuma or kicked by JP or anyone else. Zangief has comparatively little reward off of plus frames compared to basically everyone else
@@CarbonVIhave you tried to get good
@@CarbonVIJust use a fucking jab wtf XDD
Or DP or Drive reversal
@@CarbonVIit’s only plus 4, and has a 14 frame startup. You have a 10 frame gap to counter hit him if he’s just pressing headbutt over and over. Also I’m pretty sure neutral jumping beats both the command grab and a second headbutt lmao
@@InterstellarBrad smd. lol I’m master rank with 3 characters. I complain about Master rank giefs you trash gold try hard.
@@InterstellarBrad I’ll cook you easy then share it to your the vid to your 11 subs since your talking shit :)
Zangief gets buffed to high tier "not top" and EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS
WHAT?!?! Gief as much I love him (my main), he has SO MANY ways all the REAL top tier toons (and many others that aren’t) can get in on him meterlessly, it’s ridiculous. The Gief players you’re showing here are godlike; most players aren’t at this level. Those same players can take a Ken or Luke are excel far farther than with Gief. They even nerfed back his S.MK! He’s good and more consistent yes but top tier? No way 🤣
Lily absolutely RUINS him (hard counter IMO), Dhal has always been a problem, good Guile’s and Shotos eat him, the list goes on. About the only one he eats is MAYBE Manon.
I'm a Lily main. 1700MR. Last season, it was so easy to win that fight. This season, it feels so much closer. Still in her favour, but nothing like it was last season. 5.5 to 4.5. I have lost a lot more than I used to in this fight.
@@stefanobailey740 It's the worst matchup in the game still. If you lose to a gief it's because you took a risk. You can beat zangief without taking any risks at all and letting them hang themselves while the timer ticks down.
@@Glickstick Yup, I’d rather die 1000 deaths from 1000 Akuma’s than face ONE competent Lily as Gief. I might as well dig my own grave. Worse matchup than Sim, if I’m honest.
@@Glickstick must be what I feel in the Sim matchup. I feel like I can't do anything in that matchup.
@Glickstick I've beaten a few Zangief today, but I don't see how it is the worst in the game. Zangief can walk Lily down, and once you're backed in the corner, it is GG. Lily can't walk Sim down at all.
Yall mfs cappin so hard 😭🤣
Nah, gief mains are just in denial cause their character is top tier and they’re still losing
@@willkershisnik5893 if gief players are still losing why are you complaining 😂
@@willkershisnik5893 I love it when mindless shoto players try to gaslight everyone.
Zangief is still trash lol. He still gets abused in the corner. Put him in the corner and it’s GG
@@koreyg8552 I dogged 2 zangeif players today too only because I was angry and just started pressing him chasing him around
As yes. The classic "Im going to complain about grapplers while I play hard zoners" babyfest. Ever since they added grabs to fighting games, people have been whining about them.
and both dont play dhalsim,so i dont know when the hard zoner thing start xd
What hard zoners does Justin play?
Ah, you mean when throws were 1F startup, had priority over strike, had crazy range, and pre jump throw invuln didn’t exist? Yeah wow it’s so crazy that people complained about throws back then lmao
i mean throw back than can grab a fire ball character(i dunno how my brother grabbed dhalsim from accros the screen as zangief) in sf2
Snake eyez was doing God's work before the buff...
As a Zangief main, I always go back and forth on comments about them being cheap. On the one hand, we absolutely do get a lot of damage for veey little "effort" (if you're judging effort solely by number of button presses), and nothing so obviously conditions people as hitting them with a couple SPDs.
On the other hand, while Zangiefs buttons are certainly good, his mediums are all easily punsihable by DI, and and his heavy punch requires a read to beat DI with getting blown up as well. And if you want to actually get in a situation where you can use headbutt with its heavily skewed risk reward, you're probably getting it off of those easily punishable buttons, which you then need to follow up with a drive rush and hope that someone's invincible DP doesn't beat your meaty headbutt. That, or you need to hit with headbutt in neutral with Zangief's super slow, super short range Drive Rush, which is also easily punishable.
Point being, Zangief still struggles to get in and set up headbutt pressure, or even to win through buttons alone on account of how punishable the knes that actually do damage are. I'm not going to say he isn't top tier --Justin and Kizzie are certainly both more familiar with the finer points of the hame than I am -- but, to say he's broken when he still has limited, easily punishable options to approach, or because one of the best Zangief players in the world cleaned up at a tournament using a character that saw relatively little top level play with previously, and has a series of buffs that the counterplay for hasn't been fully fleshed out yet? That seems shortsighted.
Saying that a certain archetype should be low-tier would apply to the zoner archetype as well then. That's an illogical argument as a whole. Justin says it should be really hard for grapplers to get in for their reward, but what happens when this inherent difficulty is met with a different archtype like Guile's being really buffed up. Zoners then shouldn't be top tier because of the nature of the archetype itself, which already has fireballs. Some ridiculous arguments here from Justin here. Something else to consider, Justin doesn't want grapplers to be in a good tier at all or competitive; he prefers them to be underused and not winning tournaments, that alone is not merely not wanting grapplers to be strong, but wanting them at the bottom of the pack without any opportunity at winning anything.
Gief definitely not top tier lol. Pro players are having a bit harder time with Gief, so now he’s “top tier”. “But he takes all my health!” So does every character in this game that clips you with just about anything. Characters that have better neutral, better pressure, and better options overall, are still doing 60%+ damaging combos off of any whiff punish. It is a fact that grapplers have to work harder, so why should I not be rewarded for it since I have nothing to help me get in? Lariat does not cover any distance, so using it to advance forward is not an option. No Green Hand either. I’m left with doing a lucky jump-in or hoping I can DR in without getting blown up.
@@Randall8808 Have you tried using Gief’s great buttons? Not everything needs to be skipping neutral with jumps, green hand, etc….you can actually play neutral instead of skipping it.
It's interesting you mention green hand. I played lots of gief in sf4, sf6 is simply much easier to win with gief. Let's try give you a green hand and take away his 5hp armour, and gets chip damages from blocking fireball.
Lariat with range? What a 🤣 how many entry level players not dare to move at all when they see lariat - not to mention it's command it's just pressing two buttons, it's just like modern control.
And what about the air command grab and a smashable while comboable sa3?
@@ngjeremy8062 It seems the point of the post was missed on 2 counts now. The point is not that he didn’t get nice quality of life changes, or that he does not have some good buttons. The point is whether or not he is top tier. My answer is no. The “he does stupid damage” argument does not work because everyone in the cast does big damage when you get clipped. Dismissing Gief playing against zoners and simply saying “just get a lucky jump-in” also does not work because playing against 1700+ MR players, that shit is not easy. I should be rewarded since he no longer has his main 2 special moves to counter it like he used to. I’m not crying and moaning for them, I’m saying plenty of other characters have better options in most scenarios, so Gief is definitely not top tier.
I say let Zangief be strong! It takes so much mental energy to play a grappler well in the first place that he deserves to be competitive. I'm speaking as someone who has tried grapplers before and was abysmal at it
"Zangief is overpowered!!" And there's only like 2 notable players putting in work with the character 🤡😂
top 6 at evo had 0 giefs. top 12 had zero. 16, and even 32. all zero. This is including secondaries.
We had no giefs. Not even as someone's weird counterpick for a matchup.
This does not imply gief is bottom 5.
But he sure as fuck isn't top 5 considering some of the best players in the world who are competing at one of the most prestigious tournaments in fgs *for money* aren't playing gief.
"can't name five better than gief" bro what. respectfully get out of here with your grappler hating propaganda.
Every Gief player is using this convenient logic. Kobayan and Snake Eyez didn’t even attend. If Punk didn’t attend there wouldn’t be any top placing Cammy either, despite him winning the whole tournament. If Big Bird didn’t attend there wouldn’t be any top-placing Rashids.
Cause no one plays gief lmao. There are other top tiers that fit peoples playstyle better. Gief just won topanga tho which is a way bette rindicator of tiers cause of how long the sets were
@@plannedtuna8293 because it's faster and easier to say that than go over his actual weaknesses in a youtube comment section. Like lariat being slow, his only ground based anti air, and being a poor anti air in general with extremely high risk and very low reward. it's 15f startup and -41 on block with only upper body invuln for frames 6-16.
-41 means that on every dropped combo, every failed hit confirm, every single interaction where you make a mistake and misjudge something you eat a DI into a full combo. or, at minimum, a punish counter sweep. you're punished harder for making mistakes with lariat and your reward is at best on par with other characters.
@@willkershisnik5893 do you understand the grappler archetype? because it's about headgames and reads. and it's a lot easier to get into someone's head and get a good read on them as a player when you're in a long set.
@@Unserioussam328 I wouldn’t say lariat’s speed is much of an issue aside from jumpins that *actually* require a fast reaction like Cammy’s instant divekick. It not hitting behind him is much more of a problem. To put things in perspective, AKI’s heavy whip has 11 frame startup, and also has anti-air invuln starting on frame 6, except it actually has a motion input which takes a minimum of 3 frames if you’re perfect. But realistically no one is inputting QCF in 3 frames consistently, so we can say it requires around the same reaction-time as lariat (and that’s being generous)…and heavy whip is a very good anti-air.
Also, why would any good player drop lariat combos or confirms? It doesn’t even have a motion input and you have 40 years to confirm hellstab. That’s like saying “well Ken is really unforgiving because if you drop your DP-ender you eat a ton of damage”. That doesn’t really happen and Ken actually links into his DP. Zangief is for the most part just buffering a normal into motionless lariat in his combos. How does one even mess that up? Anyway, Gief *does* definitely have weaknesses, but a character with weaknesses can still be super strong as long as their strengths outweigh those weaknesses to a large enough degree.
How can you say f.hp with the stubby aah hitbox is broken but then talk about "grapplers should get rewarded when they get in" in the same breath?
Hearing the intro, 5 characters better than Zangief right now in the meta: Ken, Rashid, Luke, Cammy, Juri. I can name a few more (Guile, Ed, Cammy, Akuma), but those are overall better characters in terms of ease of use, tournament results, and most importantly, people/pros switching to Zangief. I have seen MenaRD, Nephew, and Broski at least take on Zangief (and of course, JWong on Modern). Most other high level players still avoid Zangief like the plague otherwise. Call me when Tokido, ProblemX, and/or Punk switch to Zangief full time...until then, Zangief is mid-upper tier, but let's not call him Top 5 or ask for nerfs.
If they nerf him, I don't think it should be anything major. Grapplers should be allowed to be viable. Edit: And I've never played a grappler in my life.
TLDR for the video.
Grappler haters trying to gaslight away being unwilling to learn the matchup now that he’s mid tier and doesn’t just auto lose to functioning characters.
I, for the record, do not play Zangief and have never played Zangief.
A lot of top players such as punk, the Evo champion, and Gachikun, the Evo 1st seed put gief as #1 in the game. There's no way he's mid tier. He is high tier at worst.
@@TheAlex010i mean punk play cammy;he needs to get in as cammy and getting in is a reward for zangief.
@@tilting_cat3344 Punk is also legend rank with most characters in the game
@@plannedtuna8293 yes but he like getting in;even with akuma rarely fireball and goes in.
@@TheAlex010punk, much like these two, is notorious for hating on grapplers.
all the hate.. let the big strong man be big AND strong.
Gief diserves to be good, fighting gief is less annoying than fighting akuma or guile/ken
I don't find Ken that bad, I can't beat him but I'm never that annoyed.
@@yaboi-km2qnyou say that until you meet that 1 guy who walk back ward and 2.mk dr.cancel everytime;sure i win but it's like playing vs bot who only react with 1 combo
People need to stop hating. Gief is where he should be.
People crying about grapplers is as old as fighting games. Ever since they added grabs, people have been whining about them.
He's finally good let him be
@@hoboryan3455I don't disagree, but you can't act like SFIV didn't exist bruv.
im with this guy. let Gief have this he was TRASH from start to finish in 5 lets him be good in 6 throughout
His Drive gain deserves a nerf, but the reason why that gief player said he wants cross-up lariat is because it feels so bad, and it doesn't even fit the animation. You might be able to pull it off with two buttons, but it doesn't have air invuln, so that cross cut you're trying to say is so much harder is far more reliable, even accounting for the reaction time on the motion.
@@gamelord12 it has anti air invuln starting on frame 6
@@plannedtuna8293 On the upper body. You still get hit by air moves like Bison's and Cammy's that hit deep.
@@plannedtuna8293its only partial, whereas a DP is fully air invincible, and they also have EX DPs that are fully invincible. It’d be okay if he had other reliable anti airs, but he doesn’t. Stanking HK is mainly for catching jump backs or backdashes, or punishes. Cr. HP is a lot more rewarding now, but its still very situational. Jump headbutt is also really rewarding, but requires a read, much like air spd on its own. I’m not sure what the changes should be, but he could use some for his anti airs is all.
God forbid Zangief can compete with the better shotos. The devs ought to ignore the pro players on this for the sake of an interesting game
Wow first of all much love to the comment section for standing up to the bias view on zangief. That says a lot right there. Honestly zangief is B tier or low tier at best. He suffers the same fate marisa suffers. Big bird explained this the best.
Unbelievable. You guys deep down, know he still sucks. You're gonna convince the casuals he's god incarnate...
All the complaining is going to result in him being hot garbage again, grapplers never cook
Why do old people type like this..............
"He still sucks"
...
No he doesn't????
He sucks so hard that Kobayan went undefeated in Topanga League finals against the best players in Japan…wait…
@@plannedtuna8293japan got no idea how to play against gief, this is why they want him bottom 1 in every game
Please note Gief is the character that gives Justin a run for his money most days.
Look at Kizzie in GG. He struggles with grapplers.
These 2 are whining over skill issue. Gief is finally balanced and folks can play him and have instant fun with a bit of skill.
Gief has a 5fram jump startup which was used in tandem with a cancel to get a very complex situation. THAT IS SKILL.
GIEF players are technically the best players... their footsies are god tier.
I don't play Gief. I highly respect them. Especially sf4 gieves
As a separate post, I think it's probably better overall without lariat hitting on both sides, as a weak defense is part and parcel with the grappler archetype, but I also don't think that simply mirroring the hitboxes and hurtboxes for lariat would he nearly as degenerate as some might fear. It's still a slow move that's easily punishable either after it's done or during its actuve frames because air attacks with steep angles get around the hitbox for most of the duration of the move, and the only real benefit the move would provide outside of the corner is having one other option to deter people from simply jumping back and forth over your head.
But, I can see it being too much in the corner. Zangief already has some decent options for keeping people in it with proper spacing, and being able to knock down people who are trying to jump out with a what boils down to a single button and potentially tjrow them right back in the corner does seem like a bit much. That said, it's not like Zangief's corner carry is great to begin with. But, what Justin said about the archetype being designed around struggling to get in for big reward is what I like about.it, and I feel that extends to struggling to get someone into a corner, so I'm fine with that.
Lets also call it what it is: Japan has always sucked at fighting grapplers
I love this! As a guile main I thought we're going to get a lot of hate this season but thanks to Zangief we're safe! 😂
guile was spared cause JP still exist lol(i get that he is nerfed but dude a menace vs marissa and gief and sometimes guile)
This is not a good look, honestly. No character should just always be bad. But Ken can just dominate with brain dead, flowchart offense season after season? Nah man. Y’all just don’t wanna have to play the matchup and actually think and be defensive sometimes.
Literally any time Gief gets a substantial buff you see this shit everywhere. "Gief #1, Gief busted??!?!?!?!" What a joke lmao
When are the Gief buffs going to turn into him winning consistently? So far we have Kobayan winning Topanga and that's it lol.
The biggest problem is that i have to look at the screen when playing against zangief now
To anyone here who thinks gief is top tier do me a favor: Go pick Zangief and fight against Ed, Lily, Manon or Dhalsim then come back here and still tell me if he still top tier
Yeah, because EVERYONE plays those characters. I can't even remember the last time I fought a Dhalsim
I assure you ed is in use and as a gief player, i have a hell of a time fighting him. And ken for that matter. Who was the most popular character again? Oh yeah.. @@dragonic22
Never really felt like Gief was oppressive or that annoying to fight. Maybe its just cause i play Marissa and its just a speedrun to see who kills who. Though ive never felt that bad losing to a grappler
I want anyone who says zangief is top tier to start using him and win a major. Clowns 🤡
Everyone keeps saying Gief is top tier but he didnt even make it to top 8. Meanwhile, people switching over to Akuna and M Bison because they are actually better than the other characters.
You mean top 24?
@@MrQuay03 Technically, anybody in top 8 also means theyre in top 24 but yeah, I guess youre right.
@@danhibiki2 top 24 is 16 more players than 8.
So it's easier to get the top 24 which Gief didn't even get in.
Anyhow, can't wait for Dan in SF6
@@MrQuay03 Yeah, I was hoping to main Dan when I started playing sf6 but didnt realize he wasnt in yet so I'm playing as Gief for now.
That’s silly. Kobayan and Snake Eyez didn’t even attend. If Punk didn’t attend there wouldn’t be a single Cammy in top 8. Akuma didn’t make it to top 8, guess he’s not that good?
This comment section is just like reviews on Rotten Tomatoes.
Pros - "This character is OP, Top top tier he needs a nerf.
Everyone else - "aRe YoU mEnTaL?!?"
Fr tho these buffs made him more consistent. Kobayan and SnakeEyes make him "look" op but even with my Diamond level brain power I can tell it's WORK to get ANYWHERE close to a zoner.
Everything you can say that's op in Zangief's favor can easily be said about any Shoto. He's good, 100% not op.
If Jwong thinks Gief is too strong then clearly he needs more buffs
This has to be trolling. Not a single zangief in top 32 Evo USA.
Gief is probably crazy at top level, but I play a bit of gief and I just get zoned lmao
They just run the whole game. They are so scared of daddy gief
All these brand new giefs defending the character like they didnt just pick him up when the patch dropped 🤡🤡🤡
Muscle power demands RESPECT
Wow. How can they say Gief is overpowed with a straight face. Watch him get nerfed back to bottom tier.
Honestly, pros can adapt to any character they choose and perform well with it. menaRD just picked up Zangief this month and made rank1 masters tier lol. Punk would perform with any character he chose. The Japanese players can swap characters and perform similarly to their usual placements if the train a little. The player skill is just as relevant as the character they represent.
Even with the buffs gief still doesnt have all the tools...
Cap as hell. If gief is as good as you guys claim, where was he in tournament play? Asking for buffs like lariat hitting both directions is reasonable considering its always been that way.
Edit: Cant name five characters better than him??? Juri, Ken, Akuma, Rashid, M. Bison. Hell Ed can out play the hell out of Zangief. The fuck?
Ed vs zangief is like 6/4 in giefs favor
@manuelsputnik according to the match ups I've seen, Ed and Zangief are even on match ups. With Ed actually having a slight edge.
Getting whiplash from hearing “well he’s totes top 5 but also he might be high mid tier BUUUUT isn’t that also still sooooooo strong 🥺”
Maybe some players have ptsd from older iterations of gief but this is my first sf game and even in master rank i lovz the gief matchup, way funnier than the average shoto experience
I’m fine with a minor damage nerf to his command grabs. But give me a lariat that hits behind.
It’s just weird seeing his arms spinning through Akuma’s head and he just staring at me lmao
Nice seeing you guys at EVO
This video screams of Zangief butthurt
You guys try playing Zangief and try dealing with Chun Li safe jump head stomps, it's the most frustrating feeling in the world!
Nah its the player not the character, Itabashi zangief is not on par as Kobayan zangief and the reason why Itabashi zangief didn't won evo2024
Y'all wild with this take. 0 Zangeif in top 24 at Evo, best Geif players dont show up, Snakeyes shouldve won if Geif that good 🙄
bird used level 2 tornadoes approximately 8 times per round against punk in grand finals justin
In the top 100 of EVO, there was only about 5. Top 24, there was 2 smfh. Anti-grappler propaganda
Zangief is among the weakest characters, it's just high damage, damage you can always jump away from.
I know right, ryu or guile can do those ammounts of damage
@@TheTangaMandapium for me the biggest issue is that they complain about a bottom/mid tier character. Well they are spikes, they will change to Yun, as soon as it the best character.
Yeah you can always jump away, until you get to the corner
@@jarjar8088 yes, the corner gives you a nice trap against jumps with level 1 or lariats, but all characters are "OP" when cornering opponents. That's nothing Gief has against the rest of the cast.
Gief is mid tier at best rn. I don't see what people are saying. I think the buffs were fine.
Like a huge guy hitting your block should take decent drive chip. I think Marisa should do the same amount of chip drive if she already doesn't. Like if Hugo or Alex got in, I'd expect them to have the same thing.
I agree. lmao any character that is completely close range like him should take more drive chip
You don’t balance characters out of lore or physical appearance lol. I have this argument all the time with my super casual homeboy he said in fighterz goku blue should just dominate krillen like krillen should never win a game cuz he’s canonically weak but that’s just not how you balance a game. A huge guy hitting you in a Fighting game is the same as any other body type hitting someone while they block.
@Pokemonboy245 Idk, im just putting it out there. Like, the big characters shouldn't have long block strings or something, but their pokes should deal decent drive chip. (Mainly like how Giefs drive chip is rn. Anymore would be too much tbh)
Talk about gief with Snake Eyez not the neutral skip into moment 37 guy 😂😂
You can't fool us, Justin. I can feel the anti-grappler propaganda.
Why they gotta remove his BANISHING PALM?!
So much Copium being huffed. Play Gief vs Lily and tell me he's top tier. The top tiers don't have bad matchups.
They bet not touch Zangief.. he’s in a good spot and I’ll fight him all day over crackhead Cammy’s. Lol
The complaint about lariat blows my mind. My dp doesn't hit behind either... It just seems like something people decided to be mad out for now reason. I'm so glad they didn't change this. I should just never ever get to jump even if he let's me close enough to cross up? Come on now.
Idk if he's too strong, I'm not making that claim, just commenting on this point
It's cause lariat used to hit behind in previous games, and it just visually doesn't make sense.
Let us cook 👨🏾🍳 fam Gief Gang!! 💚
I get your takes, but this is coming from a biased standpoint... and how you all want him to be... It's still tough to play Gief.
I want Alex in SF6!
Gief been bad for 5 years. He is playable now and Justin is pooping his pants. Gief has so many obvious weaknesses.
Yeah I gotta make my final push to master with Gief, we dont have much time left lmao
"Characters who struggle in neutral dont have that big boy damage." Laughs in Kagura Mutski. RIP blazblue lol.
As a Cammy main, I dabble in Gief high level rank and he 100% needs to work harder than many of the other characters. Even with the buffs he is high low tier at best.
You just aren’t good at gief lmao. Crazy to say he has to work harder when he does so much drive damage and can take 40% off one move
@@willkershisnik5893half the cast does 30 to 40 percent combos while simultaneously carrying you to the corner getting oki and have access to throw loops. Gief gets his grab loses all oki and has to work his way in again. Not to mention how awful his defense is. Zangief is not low tier by any means but he’s nowhere near as good as people are making him to be lmao
@@Serendide yeah and you have to execute the combos. I saw pros dropping combos at evo, it happens. Not having to combo for that type of damage is huge wether you want to admit it or not. He’s top tier rn
@@willkershisnik5893 You're really complaining about dropped combos? Thats the easiest aspect of street fighter. Problem is Zangief defense is trash, and he has to work very hard to get in and he cant keep pressure the same way the others can. Neutral skipping and converting combos is so easy
@@yotengoleche His defense is kind of good in some ways. Jump-cancel SPD beats throw and shimmy which makes people scared to actually mix him up. Kobayan uses that to great effect and a lot of the players in Topanga League had trouble opening him up. Obviously having no reversal is rough in SF6 though.
The discourse that certain characters should be bad makes me question, why create the archetype? surely you would agree then that it would be better if they didnt exist, only zoners, shotos and rushdown from now on. Whats the point of creating something for it to be shit? I wish i was born a guile or ken player, at least that way i could play a top 5 character till the day i die.
I concur with Justin. Zangief is pretty broke right now if you know what you're doing with him. Even when zangief is losing it's just the reads are not working out right, but the R:R is completely in his favor. You can lose 3795 damage from a jump cancel HP SPD just for throwing him, that alone allows him to do all sorts of other stuff and kind of break the throw meta of the game. Pretty low effort too to be honest like justin said, if zoning did chip it would be different plus he has an incredible lvl2 against fireballs that builds meter. When he has lvl3 pressuring him is a pretty big risk too making it hard to make comebacks due to the threat of it.
You know, if you call out a throw as any other character, you can get a full jump in combo too that does about as much as SPD, especially if you use meter. You also can get oki after. Not only that, but jump cancel SPD still loses to meaties, while just delay teching beats normal throws and meaties. Jump cancel SPD mainly ads an option for gief to call out you being really safe with your pressure/offense by using normal throw or shimmy. But again, neutral jumping on his wakeup beats jump cancel SPD. Now, if he doesnt end up doing delay tech or jump cancel SPD, yea, he can hit you with double lariat. The double lariat that can’t hit crossups. This makes gief uniquely weak to jumping over him on his wakeup. Seriously, he has a lot of trouble dealing with that scenario, he has to wait for his latiat to switch sides before he can do it, which is rough for him because its 9 (7 OD) frames and only has upper body invincibility. Its a huge hole in his gameplan and half the time people people are just unaware of this. Basically learn the matchup. He’s really good (right now but that doesn’t mean he doesnt still have huge weaknesses
@@maxpflughoeft6806 I'm talking about defensively, and no most characters cannot do that. The most they can do is backdash into the corner and then get a 4f punish or a back throw. This basically makes it a significant threat to pressure zangief and makes him mix other options in situations where the other person wasn't even going to get good damage anyway.
And of course, you can neutral jump it, but you realize that since it's there, going for neutral jumps enables gief to do other things? If you know how the pressure game works then you know how good options like this are. That all existed in S1 gief too, which wasn't the best, but S1 gief did not have crazy pressure from headbutt, a knee that could be made plus that crushes low, significantly better meter gain and conversions.. gief always had very good normals but now he punishes hard effortlessly jumpbacks and backdashes with no resources. A lot of characters can be weak to jumps, AKI also has trouble vs cross ups is she also not great? Even getting to those positions where someone is jumping like that can be hard because his normals are so good and you are trying to jump away from zangief, not forwards. There's a reason most top players consider gief top tier and all of a sudden zangief players overnight became amazing.
"one jump is enough" yeah sure you need one lucky jump as gief. and the same applies to the other character. jump over one spd and gief is dead, since he doesn't even have a lv 1 reversal. i'm not saying the easiest characters to play should be the very best on paper, but got damn, he maybe is as high risk high reward as akuma and those characters really need some stuff to work at all. there is a reason why top players shift from marisa and akuma to consistant characters like rashid and ken. the fact there are big risks playing them alone is making them worse. when you want grapplers being low tier, atleast stop the cap and let them stay viable, like them being not only low, but c or d tier in most games, when you have s- or better characters is just stupid. just let him rock and wait for how players adapt longterm... right now, i'm not sure if ANY character needs nerfs anymore.
i think gief is definitely broken on paper. having good frame data + big damage and still losing means you either played against someone better than you, or you were playing bad. if you think you lost to a match-up difference, then just practice the match-up. for instance, i suck bad at the ken match-up and im a juri player, but ill never blame my loss on ken > juri, its just that i suck at fighting ken. imo this game is extremely balanced, so "good" characters arent too far ahead of "bad" characters.
Gief is very good, Gief players who cant capitalize on his tools arent using him right. The situation Justin described with his mid and fierce is spot on. One thing I dont agree is he should be nerfed. leave him alone. i dont agree he is easy to pickup and just win, but doesn't mean he isnt good once u know how.
Every time homeboy scoop ya'll up a few times he gets "OP" every iteration.
Wait until Justin hears that head but id actually +4 ob and a true block string with crlk and true frame trap with hell stab
Id rather have Grapplers be top tier than a Zoner be high tier
wow, this character was complete garbage in s1, bottom 1
now he gets some fixes and is actually competitive and balanced and peopl poopin their pants
I would have to disagree with them this time. Justin did say that he has to get in to do big damage and still complains on the same things that he does when he IS close to you.
lol this is funny.... Ppl still eating off the grappler hate click-bait... One player does well, and the char is broken...
Yea the gief buffs were insane but i cant call him top tier until he gets results
I know Justin plays modern Gief occasionally, but they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about, a punish counter heavy spd which is point blank range is like 3800 not the 45% as stated, which is the same as any combo any character is doing off a punish counter, and he gets no oki. He's in a good spot, and maybe he could use some nerfs, Id rather see the bottom brought up personally. But for fucks sake be honest with your complaints. All of his amazing normals are all extremely weak to DI. He doesn't have anywhere near the range on his cancelable normals as the rest of the cast. And stop exaggerating the command throw damage.
It was always weird to me when people complained about how much dmg his lvl3 did. Yeah it's a good lvl3, but other characters could do more dmg off their lvl3 combos, which require much less of a risk getting out than Gief has to get his out.