Harvard student shocks vegan with disturbing moral argument
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2024
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TODAY'S VIDEO:
In today's video, I debate a Harvard student who initially tries to negate any individual responsibility for eating meat by appealing to futility. However, it's when the conversation begins to focus on his moral justification for eating meat that his arguments become particularly fraught with disturbing and shocking consequences.
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*Create a Better 🌎 and a Better You by...............Living Vegan* 💜
You wouldn’t want to be in their shoes !! Over a 10 minute fricking hamburger etc !! I’m better than that. Proud vegan ✅❤️💪😎👍
Slaves were once legal...
Jeffr👓y🍖🔴... 🙄
.. 👅💩🦠💊🍗🍳🔴 Chicken, Excrement 92% 🤮. No fibre. Stays in your body and rots away, you get fat !! Plant-based/vegans, stay healthy!! Pictures included. Peer-review science.. czcams.com/video/XwwLExz5QYo/video.html 🤮. Can have vegan ‘chicken’, NO Poop ✅🥳 ..
It's interesting how the majority of people feel so important, yet at the same time claim that their choices don't matter.
Well said!!
Which is the wrong type of thinking. As heterotrophs, we are forced to consume. What we put in our mouth and consume 3 times a day has a powerful impact on what is produced on earth. We literally demand from the earth and the earth supplies. That is supply and demand. When we eat 3 times day, that is when we play out our core values of respect, compassion and kindness. The mouth is a highly sensory rich area. When we put animal suffering, harm and death in our mouth because it appeases our taste buds, what does that say about ourselves? Make peace. Be Vegan. 🌎🌱
The person Ed interviewed mentioned the environment a lot. Going vegan is the single most effective way for each of us to minimize our environmental footprint!
"According to the most comprehensive analysis of farming’s impact on the planet, plant-based food is most effective at combatting climate change. Oxford University researcher Joseph Poore, who led the study, said adopting a vegan diet is “the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth.”
“A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use. It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car,” he explained, which would only reduce greenhouse gas. Avoiding consumption of animal products delivers far better environmental benefits than trying to purchase sustainable meat and dairy,” he added.” -"The Independent" interview of Joseph Poore, Environmental Science Researcher, University of Oxford.
Joseph Poore switched to a plant based diet after seeing the results of the study.
Links at my channel under "About.
@@veganasswipe The fact that my source was an article is not the point. Critical thinking skills tell me to pay attention to the peer reviewed study that the article cited and the opinion of the author of it. Remember that vegans overcame confirmation bias when we became vegans. Continuing to follow the conventions of our society would have been easier.
Whatever hoops their ego has to jump through to feel good about themselves.
Having to explain to a student at an elite university why rape is bad. We vegans have a lot of work to do.
It shouldn't be so hard to convince people of a good idea. It's not hard to convince people to buy iPhones or to go on vacations. I think lab grown meat will be that good idea.
@@JuiceTubes convincing people not to pay for unwatchable cruelty SHOULD be easy. That it is not is the greatest despair of my life.
We are ruled by these trained heartless puppets! The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🙏
🙌
At least he realized them child porn stash was immoral, he might get off the chicken head diet after he deleted them files.
Almost everybody wants change...Almost nobody wants TO change
We are ruled by these trained heartless puppets! The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🙏
He's totally locked in a materialistic arrogant satanic version of reality. He has zero comprehension of soul.zero😮
The guy is so assbergers soulless
@@VeganSemihCyprus33yes that’s a good one
Force me to change. That's what I want. I am too weak to do it alone
No matter how smart someone is their argument to not go vegan will always sound completely stupid.
Well said!! 🌱👍
Truth.
That is exactly my thought. Spot on, my friend.
To a vegan Activist, so 0.01 % of the population
@@tom4412para cualquier persona que entienda de bates , retórica y use la lógica. El mismo chico asumió que es simplemente arbitrario, osea que no tiene un criterio definido más que su propia conveniencia. Lol.
My jaw DROPPED when he was saying that the only thing holding people back from graping others all the time was societal norms. What a way to out yourself. This entire conversation was really hard to listen to and it absolutely blows my mind when people like this cant comprehend empathy/compassion or the concept of rights.
Right?!
Guy needs to be on a watch list, imo
Well, we still have rap e culture, so that's what he's thinking about probably (conservatives and 'alpha' males will aggressively argue about that too).
@@AmarisFrede Because it's patently false, and those people usually aren't delusional. You have to be completely out of touch with reality to think there's a grape culture.
Well, he isn't wrong about it, it's just a weird way he chose to phrase it. People in times of old such as vikings used rape as a cultural action to claim their victory or manhood over foreign terrain. Rape has and is still a part of conquest in many countries.
Because it is societal we can and should change it, same with slavery, child labor, human trafficking etc.
These things are terrible choices made by people where they dissociate with their victims (This is the reason people continue to buy iPhones regardless of the suffering behind its material factories)
@@HonorOP He claimed with confidence that there would be "nothing to hold any man back" from partaking in rape if there weren't societal consequences. That's an insane statement. There are PLENTY of people and men who would be held back by their empathy and morals. Just like there are plenty of informed people who refuse to buy new iPhones. I agree that there are a lot of unempathetic people in this world, and a prevalence of rape culture making it still acceptible in many people's minds to try getting away with rape, but to so confidently assert that there would be nothing holding ANYONE back from partaking in rape is crazy, and reflects a lot about how this man makes decisions in his life (only caring about if there will be personal consequences / sociel rejection).
I'd also like to add that for a lot of rapests, they don't disassociate from their victims, a huge part of rape is the thrill of holding power over another person. Most actively enjoy the act they are partaking in knowing that their victim is powerless against them. They know exactly what they are doing and it is nowhere near comparable to people buying iPhones.
OHHH poor baby can't have the "ultimate human eperience" because he can't eat animals, so sad. what a terrible life
When meat-eaters make themselves look like the victims.. it's very frustrating to hear
@@allandmyeah i feel you the victim mentality of meat eaters is something that realy gets my blood boiling.
I think this argument is terrible , also it’s not like if vegans were lacking any human experience of any sorts , we still have activities, delicious foods, what human experience are we lacking of ? Using the dead bodies of animals that were never meant for us to start up with? These people be acting like vegans don’t eat in bussin juicy vegan burgers & vegan pizzas & other delicacy culinary foods 🍔 even the best restaurant IN THE WORLD has (turned vegan / vegetarian with plant based options?) now vegan options 😉 If you this doesn’t make someone feel like we have it all with veganism now , I don’t know what will!!
@@strawbunnyshortcake9629
That was never meant for us? 😅 What makes something meant for us and why isn't it meant for us?
@@Amor_fati.Memento_Mori When you’re a carnist and you think an animal is born to serve a human , when truly they could not be bred to live and just exist, their life is not meant to be used by us, nor their dead bodies. That’s what I meant , I thought it would have been obvious.
It always seems that if someone says, “At the end of the day….” That they think they can justify everything that way!!! 🙄
Or "It is what it is" GRRRRRR
@@robdee9341 Eī fore qoi fore eī 🫣
It annoys me that people are like 'yeah you got me on that one' and change nothing about their behaviour.
They think they're just there to win or lose an argument, not anything more.
This happens to me allllllll the time. People will leave the conversation acknowledging all my points but no desire to change. Even the ex vegans and ex vegetarians will say "I'd like to get back to it SOME DAY." Do it now, there's literally nothing stopping you
It's because they don't care. They don't care about integrity or doing the right thing. They care about getting what they want.
@@chloro8306 They don't care enough on this particular topic, just like everybody don't care enough on other topics, you and me included.
@@chloro8306That yes, and most people are highly disconnected
Winning a debate is about ego not about brainstorming. Most people don't come open heartedly to debates and are predisposed to stay in their belief systems that they've built.
A debate is usually not for the person debating but for the crowd of people or viewers at home, contemplating on their decisions without the fear of being criticized shamed or ridiculed for their actions. They can have an honest internal debate with their own habits.
Everybody told me it's wrong. Erm, what about empathy? His casual reduction of suffering and pleasure to an equation is just sad to witness.
Yeah like, there's no understanding here of other peoples suffering? Like maybe he just hasnt thought about it before but... Dude. People who only don't do something because "everyone says its wrong" are not trustworthy in my opinion
@@hiruki8 Intellect without empathy and emotional intelligence has little worth, in my estimation.
He can try to rationalize things as long as he's not emotionally involved. Once involved, all conversation about equations is thrown out the window, like we saw in his chicken salad argument.
Monsters like this are the most dangerous beings on our planet- and, for sure, the ones who will be the cause of our extinction, one way or another.. :/ Revolting sociopathy....
Upper caste rich mentality
He's working SO hard to try and justify animal cruelty so he can eat them. He failed.
What animal crualty you want to murder literally billions of animals cripple farmers for your lifestyle.
Tell that the vegan hypocrits
yes and he knows it.
@genemaurillo4162 is killing an animal cruel?
If so why are you ok with so much of your money going to kill humans?
@@havtor007 I would have thought all killing was wrong. I don't control my tax money. Who said i was okay killing humans? Not me.
There’s just no argument for eating animals that can’t be extended to zoophilia
How about bestiality is wrong and 99% of the population agrees.
You have to understand that something is only immoral if I personally feel "ew yucky" about it.
My argument is all that matters to me, who cares what you think… Do you really believe your opinion matters to anyone? Seriously you’re just as important as a fart in the wind, yet here you are, trying so desperately to make yourself sound/feel important.
I HOPE you do not have a pet
@@havtor007 Zoophilia is inconsistent with veganism. Since when do carnists care about the consent of non-human animals?
Ivy League students are really out here scrutinizing the most difficult of philosphical dilemmas, like whether rape is right or wrong 🤦♂
Well, they get away with it all the time, and it shows.
As someone who had the privilege of attending a ‘big deal’ university (don’t worry- I’m poor and ‘unsuccessful’ now)- it is absolutely mind blowing to me the calibre of people who attend these institutions and the pedestal they are put on because of a stupid piece of paper they get handed to them. It’s disgusting. Not into it. Low value humans.
Oh this kid is a walking red flag. He kept saying he doesn't really know why rape is wrong in the human context? Huh?
Well, someone has probably sent this to campus security, so there's that.
Ed's ability to make one question their own way of thinking is admirable!
that zen like calm he has, I wish I had that
I know this guy had a lot of contradictions, but I can’t help smiling to see you, Ed, bringing such amazing points to the table without so much of a flinch.
I always learn something from you! Always! Keep it up, love your videos!
the mental gymnastics some people go through to justify their actions never cease to amaze me
Lol yeh vegans are hillarious
he did not just said "rapee" instead of victim lol
What I'm saying... And THIS dimwit attends Harvard. I've seen it all.
Yeah like wtaf
Geezuz... "anything is justified to an animal as long as there is a human experience at the end of it? In my personal value system, yes". Wow, that is so incredibly shameful. I hope it is just because he is a young man, and he can become more compassionate as he gets older.
I think he may do. He may have been half hearted when he agreed to give it a try, but he seemed to be self reflecting more than a lot of the people I see Ed interview.
wait, with that logic one could go around sexually assaulting animals… how foul this mindset is.
@@cyberangelsixyou could also subjugate humans to your gratification too. And people do
I think we shouldn't go around just shaming people (which I think will push others away), but to let them connect the dots and realize the contradictions within themselves. In that way, I think the effort of becoming a vegan is less of a struggle because it comes from inside them.
having no compassion because he is a young man doesn't justify it, i am an 18 year old vegan and been vegan for 2 years now, compassionate it something that everyone should have regardless their age, but since he doesn't have it, then i hope he develops it in the future and thinks a lot more about his "arbitrary" life choices.
Lots of contradictions as usual.
yes and further proof that eating meat rots the brain
It's not "society" that holds you back, it's your heart and conscience. Once you go into passionate creative endeavours any desire for ill doings goes down exponentially. On your own, not for being policed.
That was really beautifully said :)
Yes, societies are made up of individuals and when individuals change, the society changes
We are ruled by these trained heartless puppets! The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🙏
They play every card in the book and in the end, it always comes down to "I just like eating [insert animal here]." Why not just say that and stop wasting everyone's time with your facade.
Yes. But the way they come to the conclusion that it's the taste that matters the most for them is important. Ed just masterfully grabs their hand and leads them through the piles of garbage arguments they tend to hide behind.
I agree, there are very very few people who accept the fact.
why is no one talking about the fact that this Harvard kid talks ab rape with their peers like it’s somehow justifiable if we didn’t have this society moral construct… And they just casually do it in their first week of uni.. that disgusted me so much ewww
right?? SO disturbing…
Seriously scary
Rap e culture, especially on campus, is very real...
Thanks to all real vegans who are here.
Signs That Someone Will Quit Being Vegan - (Because They Were Never Really Vegan in the First Place):
➡ 1. They seem SELFISH - They talk about themselves all the time instead of the animal victims. They show signs of not wanting to change their lives or their habits because it takes mental energy to do so.
➡ 2. They appear EMOTIONALLY WEAK - They don’t want to be seen as “pushy” or “judgemental” around their friends, family and colleagues, so they choose to simply “fit into society” instead of speaking out for the innocent animals who are being raped (sexually assaulted by being forced to be pregnant), kidnapped, stolen from (eggs, milk, honey) and murdered by the very people who surround them.
➡ 3. They show signs of being VAIN - The person’s focus is on weight loss or “health”. They look in the mirror often and don’t eat enough calories so they get sick and then they blame veganism instead of their own vanity.
➡ 4. They seem DRIVEN BY “PURITY” - They focus excessively on raw foods or juicing or eating a very narrow assortment of vegan foods which ends up backfiring, because they then have unhealthy cravings, or a lack of overall nutrients.
➡ 5. They appear LAZY - Instead of buying lentils, beans, rice, potatoes, cans of veggies and other vegan foods in bulk and preparing them in advance, they give in to cravings because they were too lazy to plan how to handle obstacles.
➡ 6. They show signs of being DISINGENUOUS - They lie to themselves and say things like that “being vegan costs too much” or “is too difficult” which are simply factually untrue. Boiling noodles, rice, oats and vegetables, or making peanut butter and banana toast is so easy that even a child can do it. It’s not expensive or hard. It’s extremely easy to prepare these and have them ready to instantly eat and take as lunches out of the home.
➡ 7. They seem IGNORANT - They lack scientific education about how veganism is good for the animals, the planet and also human health.
➡ 8. They act like COWARDS - They only speak out to defend what’s popular (dogs, cats etc) but not to say what’s really important which is to be against speciesism, which is the first form of racism.
➡ 9. They appear UNEDUCATED - The person doesn’t understand that being vegan is not about them - it’s a social justice movement based on the moral obligation not to eat, wear or use animals for food, clothing or entertainment.
➡ 10. They say STUPID things - They’re either religious or spiritual in their decision-making, not logical. For example, they believe that the earth is flat or that Santa is real or that Jesus walked on water so they are unable to fathom that being vegan is the right thing to do.
➡ 11 They seem STUBBORN - The person is resistant to working with plant-based health professionals; they stubbornly follow random advice they hear on the internet, or their own instincts, which are often wrong, instead of going to vegan doctors or vegan dieticians.
➡ 12. They appear to be DRIVEN BY SEX - NOT ETHICS - The person has a new meat-eating partner who influences them to be more self-centered, as opposed to continuing to think about the animal victims.
➡ 13. They have UNHEALTHY habits- They rely heavily on processed foods instead of eating a wide variety of whole foods.
➡ 14. They give off SHALLOW, “PICNIC VEGAN” VIBES - They like eating vegan foods and want to have “cool friends” so they go to food events like potlucks and picnics with vegans, but they always seem to have excuses for being late to protests - or they simply never show up at all.
➡ 15. They’re NOT “OUT” AS VEGANS - They never go to protests and they never remind people that it’s their duty to watch Earthlings, Dominion Movement, Cowspiracy, Seaspiracy and to read up on the latest studies about vegan dogs, etc. They avoid controversy like the plague and make fun of “those vegans” by adding to veganphobia, instead of defending the heroes of our movement. 🌱
devoid of context, yeah. depends on what they're studying. For example law school or after a serious movie in the matter it can happen without it sounding weird.
"How much value do we assign to the conscious of an animal versus how much value we assign to the conscious of a human"
Yeah, but no-one is saying you have to regard animals as equals to human-beings. Just that you don't have to EAT or WEAR them to survive. It really isn't *that* hard.
Also…humans are animals. Let’s get them all through the kindergarten lessons before moving on to grade 1.
We are ruled by these trained heartless puppets! The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🙏
yup i don't know why they always end up saying "but we are more ___ than animals!" (may it be, smart, strong, sentient...), like bruv that's not the question here?
@@picante28 Supremacy is highly problematic and something I detest, but even within a supremacist POV, one can still be compassionate and have regard for another sentient life, no matter how 'less developed/advanced' that sentient life may be relative to our own. We know simply from observation that other animals feel pain, as well as affection and pleasure, and so who are we to pretend that their lives don't have value?
squirmy little ego biases.
I'm convinced that social conformity/pressure and convenience are the two main reasons people eat as much meat as they do, especially for men who were conditioned to think that meat makes you strong and builds muscle. Everything else sounds like justification for wanting to simply do what your friends and family do and not have to think too much about the choices you're making.
ed choosing the worst possible thumbnail for the other guy is cracking me up lmaoo
XD
💀💀💀💀💀
Omg lol😂😂😂
😂
We are ruled by these trained heartless puppets! The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🙏
I saw where Tyson is closing four more plants in 2024, KEEP EDUCATING EVERYONE! 😊
💔🐥🐄🐖💔
PIGNORANT
So many times I hear "At the end of the day..." and the end of the sentence never seems to be good!
I feel that when people start with the phase where they just say: "I like the way it tastes" and they cannot justify it anymore, it means they are very close to veganism.
I have experienced it with some people in my life where they came to that conclusion and stopped there for a while. Then few months later they became vegan ahah
I’m only a couple of minutes in and already I knew he would try to deflect when he’s first asking Ed what is his argument for being vegan. Then bringing up that corporation don’t want to bear the burden. This kid doesn’t seem to understand basic economics, the law of supply and demand, and propaganda in marketing.
He sounds confused with his own argument too 😂
Thanks, Ed not only for getting your vegan arguments across as always, but also for educating an "elite" university student on why rape is wrong. Tough one.
Being ethical/ moral takes practice. Be the best you you can be.
FOMO? Only for meat? What about all the Fruits in the world? All the vegetables?
Fruits and vegetables don't taste as good as meat.
@@sushmitbanerjee1660 I think that is subjective. I grew up vegetation until I was 18. I do not like meat. I love Fruits.
Also, there are lots of vegan options that mimic meat. Friends tell me they are good.
To be honest though the moral issue outweighs taste buds. The rape analogy brings it home I think.
Not true at all @@sushmitbanerjee1660
Omg. This guy will watch the video again a year from now and get really really embarrassed about what he'd said. Plus the speed. He says 895 words per minute. Ed was so calm and composed, as ever 💙
Ed. So happy you are on this side of the argument. Always making your point calmly and helping others see our mission which is to reduce animal suffering
Why is populism the only way to determine either moral behavior or some kind of mildly compromised behavior that allows people to live together well? Why does everyone believe that having a number of people agree with something gives them the the theoretical argument not to pay attention to things? I just don't understand where this came from. I wonder who invented it. When did we stop looking at things for ourselves and giving our own opinions?
Is that even 'populism'? Populism relates to policies and rhetoric that appeal to the general populous. For instance, a call for everyone to pay their taxes may benefit the general population and find full agreement amongst the vast majority, but that doesn't preclude some individuals, even those who count themselves among that majority, evading tax.
Turning to veganism. Is there any objection to the likes of you or I being vegan, or is it more a matter of certain individuals refusing to be vegan themselves? Would anyone ever implement a policy that compelled you and I to eat meat and dairy?
@@GregOrCregwe're not arguing whether or not populism is an appropriate format to discuss veganism. I'm saying that the rhetoric that comes from the meat eaters always lays on how many people seem to be voting. They are voting on their diet as a popular expression. I find this an erroneous bit of logic because though you perhaps can satisfy some percentage of what you call a normal population, it does absolutely nothing for the individual who has to live their lives. And this is the whole point. These people are not living their lives for themselves to the best of their abilities, they are lemmings going along with what is apparently a very popular appeal that we should all get cancer, diabetes and early on set dementia, all of which seem directly related to the meat business. Is there a black hand telling people how popular meat is? Watch a sporting event on TV and you tell me what popularism is and isn't.
@@PEBelarus We need to emphasise the fact that ANYONE can be a vegan (at least within the West), and that it is not inexorably tied to social class. I'm working-class and I've been a vegetarian since I was 12, and a *strict* vegan for the last 14 years. Veganism is simply a matter of compassion, and compassion has no social class.
I think we have to acknowledge that there are many people who truly don't care and lack empathy for others. We have to appeal to those who do have empathy and make independent choices based on their own morality. If we get enough of those people, then we may reach a tipping point where the followers, who look to the majority to dictate what they should do, will follow the vegan majority.
@@PEBelarus Monkey See Monkey Do. It is because of the fact that culture has already normalized meat eating ever since the boom of the meat industry since the 1900s, and due to all the bullshit marketing like drink milk for strong bones and eating meat for protein has already been heavily ingrained in everyone's minds, which is why it is so difficult for the average individual to convert. If everyone around you has been eating meat for every meal daily then it would probably take something very compelling to persuade an individual, which is why we need more people like Ed Winters to do these individual debates, but even then there are also numerous other factors like convenience, taste, pricing and everything in between.
Imagine if you were born as a South Korean, there are virtually no vegetarians there, much less vegan, so it would be nearly impossible to convert there I reckon.
At least he acknowledged that he'd lost the debate, unlike most meat eaters.
but that doesn't really change anything for the animals, what he needs to acknowledge is his contribution to extreme animal cruelty and how he should take accountability for his actions, and should AT LEST transition to be a long-term vegan if not overnight.
Humans are omnivores. It's the height of simplicity.
Joey's film has failed.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034 Its already been a most watched documentary on multiple platforms. Its already achieved what it set out to do. Its also triggered you.
It hasn't. It's a niche doco at best.
I know this triggers you.
The staus quo remains...can you dig it?
@@garibaldi54
I've won.@@garibaldi54
He was vegetarian for 17 years and started just one kind of meat. And he thinks that he is missing out on so much? Even if he eats other normally eaten meats it would be few more but compare that to 20000+ edible plants 🌱
most food is just a vehicle for sauce...meat eaters like their sauces. Doesn't really matter what kind of meat...gotta have a good sauce.
@@evanlouis8853 not sure how it relates to my comment but sure. Also the sauce is mostly made with plants anyways. 😅
The hormones, antibiotics, parasites, and pesticides in that dead flesh he ate were clearly enough to make his brain rot... :/ He has no ethical or moral compass, and speaks about rape without any emotion whatsoever. :/ Disgusting.
@@NiranjanBendreThat's exactly how it relates to your comment haha. They're agreeing with you
@@Zalamandar ahh… thanks for the clarification 👍🙏
wake up babe new earthling ed video just dropped
Where are we sleeping tonight mother?
Father’s Grave
Has anyone else noticed how, when it comes to animal rights, and veganism, people suddenly attempt to over-intellectualise their own reasoning when in reality it comes down to, "it tastes food though." So tired of it.
If you want an intelligent, thoughtful debate/discussion NEVER waste your time with Oxbridge or Ivy League kids. Academic results, most of which were achieved thanks to overprivileged upper-middle-class kids being rigorously trained to jump through hoops thanks to expensive private schools and private tutors, are the WORST measurements for *ACTUAL* intelligence.
Agreed. Can you tell me how you get the font you used for ACTUAL?
@@shannaveganamcinnis-hurd405 Sure. An * either side of the word or phrase you want to highlight.
@@shannaveganamcinnis-hurd405_you aint seen nothin kiddo_
This is what we call an *over-generalisation* fallacy.
Unless they are full-ride merit scholars from underprivileged backgrounds. Clearly not the case with this man and his $800 sweater.
I like how the student is able to see the flaws in his own arguments (arbitrary!) after Ed points that out. It's unfortunate that taste wins out against morals. I definitely agree with Ed that even if you aren't an activist, you can be an example to others through your own actions.
Thank you as always for this beautiful demonstration of outreach, Ed.
Really liked the conversation, was a really calm and honest one. I found it interesting to see how strong our beliefs and image of the world are. :)
It was also cool to see someone not bringing up the most stupid arguments that they could have possibly found.
Like human experience? Did you see how on the tiniest bit of introspection on that argument he immediately started justifying rape?
@@freshairkaboom8171 There were worse arguments on these debates before 😂😂
Not saying that it‘s a solid argument, just saying that there were some that are way worse…
It's always amusing to see mental gymnastics in action...and it gets more interesting when you encounter smart/educated people like this person. This is olympic worthy gymnastics! 🤣
"What ever is okay to give human pleasure because humans are selfish." What a scary way of thinking. Fortunately the student realized that himself.
Well, that wasn't too terrible. He is still young (19) and hasn't really thought out his moral values yet (I certainly didn't that age). He now got something to think about and might change his mind.
Eh I partially agree but I started wanting to be vegan at 14. It took me till 21 to make it happen but this was back before there were documentaries and CZcamsrs and dozens of plant based brands making things so easy for everyone
i think being young doesn't really justify having no compassion, plus he isn't a kid, he is a young adult. I am 18 and a vegan, been vegan for 2 years now, i agree he doesn't seem to have much compassion, so i hope he can develop some soon.
@jadenemet4527 That's funny...my post disappeared. Perhaps it offended with the video maker's bosses. In a major report out this week, UPFs produce 32 negative health outcomes..... Unless you want to die young, I'd stay off those 'vegan' ....many of which are not vegan at all, being made in the same factories as processed meat and dairy...
@@jadenemet4527 I really hope the trend continues, I need more affordable and cheap vegan food stalls and restaurants to make my vegan life easier and better
The ending (15:00 onward) was my first step in changing over to veganism. It might take him weeks, months, maybe a year, but he will remember being stumped like this for the rest of his days. It's an uncomfortable feeling to admit when you're wrong about something you've taken for granted your entire life, but when you come face to face with the reality of the situation and approach it honestly as this guy did, you can never look at eating meat or animal products the same way again, and someday you have to rectify that incongruence.
Thanks to all real vegans who are here.
Signs That Someone Will Quit Being Vegan - (Because They Were Never Really Vegan in the First Place):
➡ 1. They seem SELFISH - They talk about themselves all the time instead of the animal victims. They show signs of not wanting to change their lives or their habits because it takes mental energy to do so.
➡ 2. They appear EMOTIONALLY WEAK - They don’t want to be seen as “pushy” or “judgemental” around their friends, family and colleagues, so they choose to simply “fit into society” instead of speaking out for the innocent animals who are being raped (sexually assaulted by being forced to be pregnant), kidnapped, stolen from (eggs, milk, honey) and murdered by the very people who surround them.
➡ 3. They show signs of being VAIN - The person’s focus is on weight loss or “health”. They look in the mirror often and don’t eat enough calories so they get sick and then they blame veganism instead of their own vanity.
➡ 4. They seem DRIVEN BY “PURITY” - They focus excessively on raw foods or juicing or eating a very narrow assortment of vegan foods which ends up backfiring, because they then have unhealthy cravings, or a lack of overall nutrients.
➡ 5. They appear LAZY - Instead of buying lentils, beans, rice, potatoes, cans of veggies and other vegan foods in bulk and preparing them in advance, they give in to cravings because they were too lazy to plan how to handle obstacles.
➡ 6. They show signs of being DISINGENUOUS - They lie to themselves and say things like that “being vegan costs too much” or “is too difficult” which are simply factually untrue. Boiling noodles, rice, oats and vegetables, or making peanut butter and banana toast is so easy that even a child can do it. It’s not expensive or hard. It’s extremely easy to prepare these and have them ready to instantly eat and take as lunches out of the home.
➡ 7. They seem IGNORANT - They lack scientific education about how veganism is good for the animals, the planet and also human health.
➡ 8. They act like COWARDS - They only speak out to defend what’s popular (dogs, cats etc) but not to say what’s really important which is to be against speciesism, which is the first form of racism.
➡ 9. They appear UNEDUCATED - The person doesn’t understand that being vegan is not about them - it’s a social justice movement based on the moral obligation not to eat, wear or use animals for food, clothing or entertainment.
➡ 10. They say STUPID things - They’re either religious or spiritual in their decision-making, not logical. For example, they believe that the earth is flat or that Santa is real or that Jesus walked on water so they are unable to fathom that being vegan is the right thing to do.
➡ 11 They seem STUBBORN - The person is resistant to working with plant-based health professionals; they stubbornly follow random advice they hear on the internet, or their own instincts, which are often wrong, instead of going to vegan doctors or vegan dieticians.
➡ 12. They appear to be DRIVEN BY SEX - NOT ETHICS - The person has a new meat-eating partner who influences them to be more self-centered, as opposed to continuing to think about the animal victims.
➡ 13. They have UNHEALTHY habits- They rely heavily on processed foods instead of eating a wide variety of whole foods.
➡ 14. They give off SHALLOW, “PICNIC VEGAN” VIBES - They like eating vegan foods and want to have “cool friends” so they go to food events like potlucks and picnics with vegans, but they always seem to have excuses for being late to protests - or they simply never show up at all.
➡ 15. They’re NOT “OUT” AS VEGANS - They never go to protests and they never remind people that it’s their duty to watch Earthlings, Dominion Movement, Cowspiracy, Seaspiracy and to read up on the latest studies about vegan dogs, etc. They avoid controversy like the plague and make fun of “those vegans” by adding to veganphobia, instead of defending the heroes of our movement. 🌱
Or he'll forget and continue his rich life
@@zethaynThink positive.
Hope this young man will continue to reflect on moral values and have the courage to become what he believes in. Very well done Ed! 💚
Really appreciate your approach of arguing with people. I've learnt a lot from you. Love from India ❤ long live ❤
Ed you are so brilliant, the conversations you have with people about veganism are incredible. I do not understand how you manage to connect with every single type of person that comes to talk with you, but you do it beautifully. I am just so grateful you have chosen to use your talents to speak for the voiceless.
i think he is making an interesting argument however his point of "we cant even get people to support a union" ignores the historical aspect that when unions were stronger (in the US in particular) they changed what was considered normal, the idea of children working, of working extremely long hours etc. is now abnormal and we hold onto these lines in the sand which werent there before. similarly, if you decide to act, you may be a part of changing what is normal, which in an ideal world, would be veganism, but if i looked at it cynically (based on my experience with meat eaters) probably just means a massive curtailing of cattle farming and moving towards other forms of meat.
also as a small note, the "i havent tried all these different types of food", its always interesting to me that people's first thought is all the animals they have not eaten and not the idea of all the incredible fruits and vegetables that exist. like damn i need to get a starfruit
When I was nine years old I started working and it was long hours. It was in the commercial fishing industry. In three weeks I would make fifteen thousand dollars. I know that is slave wages to what a vegan makes.
I am self employed now in the sport fishing industry. Probably about seventy percent of my employees have worked for a union shop. They only worked for those companies for a couple years and the place would close it's doors and all the employees would lose their jobs.
I'm so glad that he said he would give it a go. I think there were some points where he let his guard down and Ed got to him.
i think he prolly is lying just to get out of there quickly, his whole argument was full of "arbitrary" life choices and he even justified animal raping if human pleasure weighs more than animal suffering, that person doesn't really have morals at least for animals, don't know if he even would have morals for humans if "societal construct" were not there to hold them back, but yeah he prolly said it just for the sake of it.
Did he just say he’s “scared” of not being able to eat animals?
It is not that in specific... A lot of people are scared of Change
@@PsychoDude - Ah, okay. That makes more sense
This interview is pretty insightful into how the types of group think that we associate with people on the right can manifest on the left as well. Like, when you’re young and have a progressive friend group that embraces human equity, but would be inconvenienced by veganism, it’s easy to hold beliefs like “kill Exon” but if you had to explain that you don’t eat animal products to your friends, it would be too confrontational or awkward.
Damn, these people are just so simple minded it's actually brutal. I guess they are young, but it's just so painful to listen to these rumblings and dishonest bullshit. Maybe I'm just too versed on fallacies, ethics and veganism so it's hard for me to relate to these people at this point.
In this moment as I listen to this, I just want this dude to stop talking because it's really just.. yikes
it’s truly disheartening to witness the sheer ignorance
It really is heartbreaking it's a whole generation. But then there's other generations that have their own way of arguing this. This type of kid is hard to watch. I wrote some ramblings actually I use voice to text so it's probably a mess. But there's not one thing he said that made what he's doing okay. And people are far from the top of the food chain. I like the way you said this better than what I sad. But i'm fifty nine years vegan. It's not that hard. I can't imagine being different. I can't imagine arguing about it. I've made my mistakes through life. But i'm not gonna say i'm the top of the food chain. And i'm not gonna argue about anything being o k because of the way something tastes.
To me he sounds like he's on The Verge of saying, rape is OK. Because humans are just like that. Just like all abusers they start with animals.
We are ruled by these trained heartless puppets! The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🙏
@@gomezaddams6470 He was like 90% from saying he thinks raping animals is ok, then backed off at the last moment to talk about pain or whatever.
Appeal to futility, might makes right - just the most basic mistakes one could make. To me this is a clear sign the guy never even indulged in even the shallowest philosophical debate or thinking.
Maybe I'm expecting more from Harvard, though at the end of the day the individual has to do the work.
I know more than a few East Indian young people who started out vegetarian and then chose to eat animals at around that age. What a shame. Their parents give them a gift of a head start like that and they turn their backs on it.
Overprivileged, ungrateful brats.
Its because their reasons for being vegetarian are religious and moral superiority - not really based on ethics and values
@@atruenut That's why it's so important that everyone has a full intellectual understanding of why they do certain things. It's important that we raise our kids to be vegan, but as they get older, we must use reason and rationality to teach them why we live by these values (e.g. to reduce harm to other animals etc). It stands to reason that we'll question the values we're raised with, so we must be sure that those values are logical and explicable.
We are ruled by these trained heartless puppets! The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🙏
How can we know where you will be touring? 😢 I would love to meet you, man!
Thanks for everything that you do!
Ed I love these videos because you are so good at being kind and patient with these folks and it’s clearly a win-win.. you both leave feeling better and there’s a chance he’ll actually rethink things
Amazing work as always Ed, keep these videos coming 🙂
Definitely planted a seed there. And being there among his friends, he probably said that Chick-fil-a comment as a joke, but still true. Maybe the little seed will grow and he’ll question the morality of his decisions.
Be careful that no one plants their seeds in your pants, and you don’t notice before putting them on
Yeah man, that seed of thought has potential to grow
@@drk3249 exactly yes the seed sown can grow. See my comment above 👆🏼
Feels like this is another person I've seen Ed discuss veganism with that can be chalked up to laziness as the genuine reason they're not vegan
A message of support for this channel and a thumbs up on the video. Thanks so much for the effort to provide such consistently good content.
I was shocked when he explained the only reason why he agrees on why we shouldn’t rape other humans is because he has been told his entire life that it’s bad. Where’s the level of empathy and respect towards others ? That’s really scary. And how analytical his mind his.. it’s like he lost all capacity to use just simple common sense about coexisting with others
Off topic but him swinging the mic back to the person after asking a question that stumps them always cracks me up😂😂
I have about 50 pages left in your book How To Argue With a Meat Eater. Overall pretty good but I feel like each section could be an entire chapter (if not book) in itself so you did a decent job of summarizing the main points to the main arguments we get. Once I actually finish it I will be posting on social media recommending it to both vegans an non vegans alike (at the very least maybe we can get some more creative and critically thought out arguments from the non vegans, I've been vegan 17 years and there's only so many times I personally can get these same questions over and over and over and over and over before I just stop answering them)
Smart guy, he just never thought about this much before, like many other before him.
I think this is the case for a lot of people for a lot of issues. I don’t think people are always just evil or dumb, they just haven’t thought about it enough and had the right conversations.
😳 😬 😱. My daughter said that she over heard a boy at school (15 years old) saying that he wishes raping wasn’t illegal, and then he could just rape all the girls he wanted at school. I’m very concerned for these types of thoughts and behaviors in the younger generations. And they are saying them out loud for everyone to hear.
Great work as always ed! Keep going!
Student doesn't know that there is no argument against veganism. He walking into a trap :) lol
I admire Ed for his calm way of reacting to the most shocking argument that comes from people's mouth...not showing the slightest hint of judgmental expression , never cease to amaze me . All the gratitude and love to you Ed for making our world a better place, for giving us all hope in humanity.
These discussions are so wonderful to watch. While Ed feels deeply about animal suffering, he approaches these debates without being judgemental. Instead he is curious, open and kind the whole time. This is the most powerful way to change people’s perspective.
A lot of really mean comments here. A lot of vegans tend to forget that there was a time when they weren’t vegan and they no doubt could have justified that to themselves at that time.
I for one appreciated this guy’s honesty and his willingness to embrace Ed’s counterpoints. These conversations are about planting a seed both with the guy himself and potentially an open minded meateater who might stumble upon this video. Should the latter stumble upon the comments section I doubt that they would get a positive view of most vegans.
I do get it that many vegans are impatient for change because the extreme levels of suffering is a constant but if that change is ever going to happen it is sadly going to take generations to happen. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Totally agree
but we still can't blame people for shouting THE ANIMALS CAN'T WAIT. even if that's not the most effective tactic. Ed is a genius, his ability to keep things calm, reasonable and civil is fascinating. In his dialogue masterclasses he constantly takes turns my overeager self doesn't expect.
@@MrMortadeloyfilemon I just think that we all need to honestly ask ourselves if that would have influenced us for or against veganism before we ourselves were vegan. Honestly I think it isn’t just ineffective it is counterproductive.
I think that anti vegan trolls do more for veganism than vegans shouting at people and making mean comments about a guy who was clearly interested enough to sit down and talk with Ed and didn’t engage in bad faith arguments.
@@robsengahay5614 yeah, manners matter...i guess that statement is true
I agree with your sentiment that many of these vegans are harming their cause with their lack of understanding for where the other is coming from. Compassion and open mindedness is key to fully understanding anything. Alienating people is never worth it. You’re clearly one of the more intelligent and mature people in this comment section so I’ll present my thoughts to you and I sincerely would like to know your honest, thoughtful response.
As a passionate animal lover, fellow animal, and an Earth lover, my purpose in life is to heal our environment and ourselves. I argue that veganism is not practical nor healthy nor good for the environment nor compassionate towards life.
Cow burping produces a minuscule amount of emissions compared with the other producers such as fossil fuels. If you really want to reduce emissions, then forget being vegan, stop driving. As much as I long for mass transit, for most people in the US at this time, it is not practical to stop driving. We need to keep working towards mass transit solutions though, not turn all our efforts and focus to veganism.
Also, it’s a myth that you’re killing fewer animals as a vegan. Unless you’re 100% growing all your own food organically in a small, home farm, then you’re probably killing far more animals than people who are carnivores. Large-scale farming is devastating! I eat probably 20 chickens and less than one cow per year. But the widesweeeping commercial monocultures required to produce your plants is environmentally DEVASTATING! It destroys billions of plants and wipes out the diversity of life in one fell swoop! There should be 25 different plants species in a square meter of soil, not just corn, or soy or wheat for millions of acres! And what’s also horrible is commercial agriculture destroys the soil!! It also destroys millions of other smaller animals, reptiles, amphibians, and insects in the process. Do those lives matter less to you than the larger ones?
Aside from that, if you don’t think plants are sentient beings who want to live, you’re fooling yourself. They absolutely are! They have developed countless ways of protecting themselves and much of those are actually toxic for humans. Vegans get sick as a result. Plants do not want us to eat them.
Veganism is not the optimal diet for humans health. If we don’t eat for optimal health, then our diet is simply not sustainable. Humans evolved for 2 million years eating primarily meat and it wasn’t until 10,000 years ago with the agricultural revolution that we ate a large percentage of our diet as plants. This is also the time that the fossil record shows the human brain shrunk 10% and people got smaller. Grains agriculture is fine when you need to prevent starvation or make big bucks for corporations; but, it should never be the primary source of your food if you want to thrive. We’re not evolved to be able to process plants. That’s for the ruminants, cows, bison, elk, deer, and all the other hooved animals, the ones we’re supposed to eat. Our digestive systems are far better suited to eating meat than plants. The lie that red meat and saturated fats is bad for us was debunked 15 years ago! Humans NEED to eat meat and saturated animal fats for their health! Being carnivorous heals the body because that’s how we evolved.
And, ethical hunting is THE MOST humane way to eat, produces the least suffering for other living things and is BY FAR the least harmful to the environment.
I love all animals and never want any creature to suffer; but, it is simply not practical or even possible to thrive without eating animals. I love all animals and plants! To every life I eat, I give thanks and gratitude to that life, whether it be plant or animal. As a wildlife biologist who is steeped in love for our environment, I know that life IS a cycle. For one to survive, another must die. When you die, your body will decay and feed countless bacteria and fungi which will in turn feed insects and plants which will then feed small mammals and grazing herding animals, which will in turn feed the apex predators, the carnivores, which includes humans. We are not separate from nature. We are a part of the food web and that’s a beautiful thing!
What an arrogant way of thinking. Unfortunately he is not an isolated case. But at the end you got him in the corner. Thank you so much Ed!💚🌱🙏🙌
Wow it's just so cringe to watch him turn backwards to try to justify it... The mental gymnastics are crazy.
GO VEGAN ❤
I really dislike the "you're missing out on so much international food" argument. Mainly because since going vegan I've gotten to experience and learn to cook so many international dishes. You do miss out some stuff but you should value your principles over your pleasure. I don't think this guy would sit in line to try fried dog in South Korea out of fear of missing out
It repulses me to see him saying "humans deserve more [than animals]"-because seriously, this "winner take all" mentality doesn't make you deserve anything.
Sure, you're going to the elitest of the elite universities and you're going to be wealthy and have everything you ever want-doesn't mean you deserve it. Also, it doesn't mean you deserve your life more than an animal deserves to breathe and live without fear of harm.
Woo approaching my first complete week as a vegan!
Thought I'd last longer before I found it really difficult. Like seeing a bar of chocolate and realising I'm the only one standing between myself and the chocolate is really hard!
Keep going, friend, the beginning is the most difficult! It takes time to change habits and figure out new ways, but after that, it becomes your second nature
Don't forget about the real victim. remember what the cow had to go through, so someone could make milk chocolate. Do you want to be responsible for that? I know I don't.
@NorocWarrior .....chocolate has been consumed for over 5,000 years, most of that time as a drink but also, almost all of that time without milk.
Buy vegan chocolate milk
human enjoyment or experience is exactly why companies like exxon and chevron and shell manage to sell gas for cars. People prefer convenience rather than environmental change. Because it is arbitrary for most, then some people DO prefer their enjoyment over others, which is why sweatshops, child labor and human trafficking exist. These are cruelties created by demand of people for phones, clothes, and sex
Keep doing what you are doing!! Great content as always 💗💗💗
I'm homeless living in a shelter and they only offer meat with small portions of vegetables. When i ask for vegetables only it's not as filling as a complete meal and i later yearn for more food. Am i wrong to continue to eat the meat because it fills me up? Or should i stop eating it and gradually lose weight and my health in general? I weigh 150 pounds.
Not your fault. That means what they are offering is insufficient and incomplete without a better vegetarian protein component. Meat in and of it self does not make it a "complete" meal, the protein does. You might have some capacity to request more balanced veg options, but they may not have capacity (or willingness) to provide
When you are below the bottom level of maslows hierarchy of needs ( ie shelter, food, water), then of course you have limited options to make your own choices 😔. I hope that you find a way forward and to a situation where you have the option to make decisions in line with whatever your values are. All the best 💚
Eat the meat! I agree that it is healthy for you. I want you to grow stronger and meat will help you do that. I hope you find a home soon. 💕🙏
You would think that colleges encourage critical thinking regarding these kinds of topics. Sadly they don't.
I've even had college professors respond with weak excuses when I bring up animal rights.
I just read that 79 million people around the world are vegan!! We are growing slowly but surely!
Kudos for being assertive at the end to close the deal. You are the best model for outreach I know of.
"...Tiny change you're making won't impact anything long-term". Imagine if throughout human history, that line was used to justify all abhorrent things humans did to each other.
15:14 dude says he “does a lot of morally unjustifiable things, aside from eating meat” Somebody check this dudes hard drives
It's a concern when someone says "I do a lot of morally unjustifiable things"
Appreciate the work you do, Ed. Thank you!
I'm not happy that my state of Florida has already banned lab grown meats..so much for capitalism..removing both competition and choices
His argument would suggest that we deserve LESS. Because we have so much more than simple taste pleasure.
I wouldn't worry about it...mankind will never be vegan. Humans are omnivorous.
Darwinian. Dig?
I became a vegetarian at 14. Eating animals always struck me as cruel and disgusting and at 14, I realized I could just stop. (18 months ago I became a vegan after learning of the harm in the egg and dairy industries.) Because I never liked eating dead animal flesh, it’s always difficult understanding why people love it so much that they disregard animal suffering so easily.
It’s very good that Brilliant is sponsoring a vegan video!!! All I needed to know about Brilliant!!!
Brilliant cares about vegans as much as vegans care about humans
I don't cast aspersions on non-vegans as I think about myself before I turned vegan. I don't think I was morally any inferior then, I was just uninformed and not educated on how to implement it into my life.
The best argument for not being 100% vegan is it's a relatively recent human invention vs. a natural omnivorous diet we evolved with over the last 300,000 yrs. although one can also debate what is healthier for the fetus, babies, and growing children. The choice is far from being binary (vegan vs. meat eaters).
I don't get why most of the comments are so extremely negative... Sure, his arguments were not thought through until the end, but most of peoples arguments seem perfect until someone shows them that they're not! At the end he accepted the fact of not standing a chance to "convince" Ed with his best argument against veganism and on top (no one knows if thruthfully) agreed to trying to change NOW instead of anytime in his life. I think this was a great discussion videos with great thoughts and a calm and collected counterpart. Well done!
It was calm, But this is not debate class. This particular generation of this kid's age and a few years each direction it's so it's so into debating? So much that the point of the debate gets lost. No we don't know what this kid is gonna do later. More than likely bragged to his friends that he got on a show. His friends will make fun of veganism and it'll be forgotten. There's way too much focus on debate. It's just so weird to me. We're talking about lives, Not seeing who can win a debate. Innocent lives versus debating😢
@@gomezaddams6470 Although i agree with the thought behind your comment, we can not know what this discussion did to him. He seemed generous to me 🙈
Great Video!
Good debate!
HUH? graping is wrong bc of societal norms????????? HUH??????????? this pov is actually so scary.